M. Moore Has Lost It!

[PaceAdvantage]

He truly thinks who he is....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&ncid=1503&e=28&u=/afp/20040707/ts_afp/us_film_moore_040707014554

[Tom]

What a disgusting POS this cretin is. His stupidity insults those brave Chinneses who stood up and died in Tieneman Square. He thinks that seeing his cartoon will inspire them more than the memories of thier dead heros?
What a waste of life this bag of blubber is.
I would like to see this hippocite sytary outside the protection he has as a US citiizen here and open that fould-mouth of his in some country where they know how to deal with garbage. But then, he is too afraid to even face an interviewer who will ask real questions and not puff stuff. What a lousy coward he is.

[Dan Montilion]

It appears I have been praying to the wrong being.

Dan Montilion

[Tom]

Originally posted by Dan Montilion
It appears I have been praying to the wrong being.

Dan Montilion

Hehehe. If MM were really God, he would have eaten the Son and Holy Spirit already. See the new Spiderman movie yet? That Doc Oc with all those arms flayling about-looks like MM at a buffet diner!:D

[Buckeye]

Lost what? He's superior to all the half-brains out there.

[dav4463]

Is it possible to have this scumbag brought up to trial as a traitor, a modern-day Benedict Arnold ?

[sq764]

I wouldn't be shocked to one day read in the paper about him having a fatal 'accident' while skiing or driving somewhere....

[Tom]

Sometimes people just die unexpectedly....what are ya gonna do?
(hope!)

[Secretariat]

Thanks for posting. A magnificent summary by Mike what many of us are feeling.

[GameTheory]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Thanks for posting. A magnificent summary by Mike what many of us are feeling. Any word on what that "many of you" is thinking? Or is it only feeling that is important?

[Secretariat]

A feeling that "regime change" is needed here and elsewhere. That not new leadership is needed, but "actual" leadeship. It is a battle to prohibit the neo-cons from setting the world agenda. Moore is spot-on. Novemeber is coming and it scares the hell out of them.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Secretariat
A feeling that "regime change" is needed here and elsewhere. That not new leadership is needed, but "actual" leadeship. It is a battle to prohibit the neo-cons from setting the world agenda. Moore is spot-on. Novemeber is coming and it scares the hell out of them.

Neocons, Progressives..........what word is up for next week Sec?

Did you get your fax yet? I am still waiting on Gravitas to rear its ugly head again..........

[Tom]

I watched the interview with Yeslam Bin LAden - Osama's brother- on Dateline tonight. Even HE thinks MM is a liars, and he offered proof tonight, on one of MMs lies - about the Bin LAden's leaving after 9-11.
What was really amusing was that they showed MM and YBL on the same show, and Bin Laden came across as neat, daper, well educated, clean cut, intellignet. Moorse came across as human debris-sloppy, unshaven, dressed like a bum (but he did rent a tux for the FRENCH!).
But mostly, Bin Laden was believable and I would sooner take his word on anything over MMs decades of lies.
The thinkg that sold me on YBL was that he refused to directly answer one question-if he ever found out were Ossama was, would he turn him in. I thought the real answer was "no." That was a brother speaking. He COULD has replied."Of course!" and been done with it. But he choose not to lie. I respect that. I am sure it would have been easy for him to lie about it, but he didn't/ He didn't twist facts to support himself and that is what MM is all about - spin everything to meet your needs.
Ossam's brother is a better man than MM is. Fact.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JustRalph
Neocons, Progressives..........what word is up for next week Sec?

Did you get your fax yet? I am still waiting on Gravitas to rear its ugly head again..........

Gravitas? What has Latka got to with anything?:p

[GameTheory]

Originally posted by Secretariat
A feeling that "regime change" is needed here and elsewhere. That not new leadership is needed, but "actual" leadeship. It is a battle to prohibit the neo-cons from setting the world agenda. Moore is spot-on. Novemeber is coming and it scares the hell out of them. I guess thinking and feeling are the same thing for the Moore supporters. Maybe that is why they're so confused...

[Secretariat]

Tom...I thought we shared some common ground, but when you choose to side with a man (any man) who would keep Osama Bin Laden's location a secret for a partisan argument, then I realize we do not have common ground.

Reread what you just wrote, watch the 911 tapes again, and write an apology to the people who died in the WTC and those soldiers trying to find Bin Laden in Afghansitan.

I'm glad you think Bin Laden looks dapper. That makes me sleep better at night. Jeez...

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by GameTheory
I guess thinking and feeling are the same thing for the Moore supporters. Maybe that is why they're so confused...

See F911 and you'll understand the thinking part.

Man, I love it. This guy scares the heck out of Repubs doesn't he?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Tom...I thought we shared some common ground, but when you choose to side with a man (any man) who would keep Osama Bin Laden's location a secret for a partisan argument, then I realize we do not have common ground.

Reread what you just wrote, watch the 911 tapes again, and write an apology to the people who died in the WTC and those soldiers trying to find Bin Laden in Afghansitan.

I'm glad you think Bin Laden looks dapper. That makes me sleep better at night. Jeez...


You are an idiot.
I said I respected his not lying. I never mentioned agreeing with his not talking if he knew anything.
You are right, we have no common ground at all. If we did, I would drink hemlock.
Can't you read, Sec?
And YBL has done less to hurt this country than MM.
I stand by what I siad - YBL is a better man than MM. There is no evidence against him for anything at all, yet MM is a proiven liar.
MM is making accusartions against someone who has been cleared of any implications in 9-11 and whose family has disowned the real terrorist.
Now try this on.....all those so-called 9-11 families that were up in arms over Bush using a few seconds of ground zero in his commercials (what a coincidence tht they all said almost the same things word for word, like they were reading it????)
How about MM using his legs to represent the two towers in one his posters? Isn't that wee bit disgusting to you?

[Secretariat]

Tom,

Stick with the Bin Ladens. I prefer Moore's eloquence.

The Patriot's Act: What's more American than asking questions? By Michael Moore / The Los Angeles Times

July 4, 2004

NEW YORK — As a young boy, I loved the American flag. I'd lead my younger sisters in patriotic parades up and down the sidewalk, waving the flag, blowing a whistle and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance over and over until my sisters begged me to let them go back to their Easy-Bake Oven.

I loved singing the national anthem. I won an essay contest on "What the Flag Means to Me." I decorated my bicycle with little American flags for a Fourth of July parade and won a prize for that too. I became an Eagle Scout and proudly promised to do my duty to God and country. And every year I asked to be the one who planted the flag on the grave of my uncle, a paratrooper who was killed in World War II. I was taught to admire his sacrifice, and I hoped to grow up and do my part, as he had, to keep us free.

But, in high school, things changed. Nine boys from my school came back home from Vietnam in boxes. Draped over each coffin was the American flag. I knew that they also had made a sacrifice. But their sacrifice wasn't for their country: They were sent to die by men who lied to them. Those men — presidents, senators, government officials — wrapped themselves in the flag too, hoping that their lies would never be questioned, never be discovered. They wrapped themselves in the very flag that was placed on the coffins of my friends and neighbors. I stopped singing the national anthem at football games, and I stopped putting out the flag.

I realize now I never should have stopped.

For too long now we have abandoned our flag to those who see it as a symbol of war and dominance, as a way to crush dissent at home. Flags are flying from the back of SUVs, rising high above car dealerships, plastering the windows of businesses and adorning paper bags from fast-food restaurants. But these flags are intended to send a message: "You're either with us or you're against us," "Bring it on!" or "Watch what you say, watch what you do."

Those who absconded with our flag now use it as a weapon against those who question America's course. They remind me of that famous 1976 photo of an anti-busing demonstrator in Boston thrusting a large American flag on a pole into the stomach of the first black man he encountered. These so-called patriots hold the flag tightly in their grip and, in a threatening pose, demand that no one ask questions. Those who speak out find themselves shunned at work, harassed at school, booed off Oscar stages. The flag has become a muzzle, a piece of cloth stuffed into the mouths of those who dare to ask questions.

I think it's time for those of us who love this country — and everything it should stand for — to reclaim our flag from those who would use it to crush rights and freedoms, both here at home and overseas. We need to redefine what it means to be a proud American.

If you are one of those who love what President Bush has done for this country and believe you must blindly follow the president to deserve to fly the flag, you should ask yourself some difficult questions about just how proud you are of the America we now inhabit:

Are you proud that one in six children lives in poverty in America?

Are you proud that 40 million adult Americans are functional illiterates?

Are you proud that the bulk of the jobs being created these days are low- and minimum-wage jobs?

Are you proud of asking your fellow Americans to live on $5.15 an hour?

Are you proud that, according to a National Geographic Society survey, 85% of young adult Americans cannot find Iraq on the map (and 11% cannot find the United States!)?

Are you proud that the rest of the world, which poured out its heart to us after Sept. 11, now looks at us with disdain and disgust?

Are you proud that more than one billion people on this planet do not have access to clean drinking water when we have the resources and technology to remedy this immediately?

Are you proud of the fact that our president sent our soldiers off to a war that had nothing to do with the self-defense of this country?

If these things represent what it means to be an American these days — and I am an American — should I hang my head in shame? No. Instead, I intend to perform what I believe is my patriotic duty. I can't think of a more American thing to do than raise questions — and demand truthful answers — when our leader wants to send our sons and daughters off to die in a war.

If we don't do that — the bare minimum — for those who offer to defend our country, then we have failed them and ourselves. They offer to die for us, if necessary, so that we can be free. All they ask in return is that we never send them into harm's way unless it is absolutely necessary. And with this war, we have broken faith with our troops by sending them off to be killed and maimed for wrong and immoral reasons.

This is the true state of disgrace we are living in. I hope we can make it up someday to these brave kids (and older men and women in our reserves and National Guard). They deserve an apology, they deserve our thanks — and a raise — and they deserve a big parade with lots of flags.

I would like to lead that parade, carrying the largest flag. And I would like the country to proclaim that never again will a war be fought unless it is our last resort.

Let's create a world in which, when people see the Stars and Stripes, they will think of us as the people who brought peace to the world, who brought good-paying jobs to all citizens and clean water for the world to drink.

In anticipation of that day, I am putting my flag out today, with hope and with pride.

[sq764]

Why doesn't this fat useless sack of shit move to another country and just see how good it really is in America?

Maybe he can join traitor Bobby Fischer in Switzerland and hide away like a coward, only to pop up ever few years to denounce the United States.

He speaks of trying to inspire Italians and Chinese to rise up and speak out against their governments.. How about his ass going to one of these countries and putting out a documentary disgracing the leader.. What do you think would happen to him in China or Japan or Korea or Russia?

I think they would have one of those little accidents involving him..

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by sq764
Why doesn't this fat useless sack of shit move to another country and just see how good it really is in America?

Maybe he can join traitor Bobby Fischer in Switzerland and hide away like a coward, only to pop up ever few years to denounce the United States.


You don't get it SQ...It's not the US he is denouncing. It's the Bush admin. Beleive me they are definitely NOT one and the same although many Repubs would like people to think so such as "Rush to the Pharmacy."

[sq764]

Sec, so if he is directing this solely at the Bush administration, you can show me that all of these have just popped up in the last 4 years, right:

Are you proud that one in six children lives in poverty in America?

Are you proud that 40 million adult Americans are functional illiterates?

Are you proud that the bulk of the jobs being created these days are low- and minimum-wage jobs?

Are you proud of asking your fellow Americans to live on $5.15 an hour?

Are you proud that, according to a National Geographic Society survey, 85% of young adult Americans cannot find Iraq on the map (and 11% cannot find the United States!)?

[Tom]

SQ.....good quesiton. What happened in the 8 golden years when Billy-bob was at the helm?
Sec just displays a complete misunderstanding of everything in his long posts.


And Sec, for your inforamtion, there are millions af people out there that are overpaid at $5.15 an hour. The idea of raising the minimum wage is so ludicrous I cannot believe people are satill arguing for it. Get this brainiac: Business have X dollars to spread out over Y minimum level jobs. You up the hourly rate, the X dollars remains the same, the Y jobs goes down to mathematically compensate for it. Result, more people out of jobs.
Now the taxes on the Y people go up to pay for the X people out of work, and bingo! Liberal economics strikes again.


Oh, yeah, and the people who needed to found Iraq alright.
Even found little timy rat hole with a great big rat in it.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Secretariat
See F911 and you'll understand the thinking part.

Man, I love it. This guy scares the heck out of Repubs doesn't he?

I'm shocked at the anger he invokes...

The movie aside... I agree with him that it is time to change the direction the country and the world is headed. I think The preisdent and his administration,,and MORE importantly his POLICIES are wrong... Dead wrong.. I support any peaceful means to get him out of office...

hb

[cj]

http://www.pacefigures.com/images/libs.gif

Pretty "heady" company you are in with your opinion.

(I can't help it, I laugh so hard every time I see that picture!)

[Tom]

CJ,
I have a 3 Stooges wav file of their theme song and everytin I see you picture, I play for background music. This is really getting too funny for words! I also play it when I read Sec's posts.
:D

[Secretariat]

I see Blair contemplated resigning. Let's hope Bush is next.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=9&u=/nm/20040710/ts_nm/britain_blair_dc_4

[penguinfan]

Secratariat

Us lifelong republicans who would also like to see change from the current administration just can't bring ourselves to do it because the alternative is people like yourself. You would sell your soul (or whats left of it) to satan himself, or worse, side with Moore to get the Dems in the white house. It is clear that the current administration has made too many mistakes to be allowed to continue another 4 years, though it is also obvious the Dems do not want the white house this day and age, after all the current administration is lobbing you guys a softball this November and the best you can come up with is Kerry, that just screams "we don't want the job". Instead you will be satisfied denouncing the current President, damn shame in my opinion.

You Moore supporters are the problem with this country, twist everything to support a position that you yourself cannot define. This guy, and his kool-aid drinking followers are a disgrace to this country and I agree they should be tried for treason and hung in public, which by the way is the only reason I would leave my house to see Moore.

I would like to hear Moore's position on the current commercial running by the Bush camp, Kerry has missed 2/3 of all votes the past year, including funding of troops, yet he found time to vote against the Lacy Peterson act, I am sure this makes sense to Moore supporters, why don't you guys roll his fat ass out for office in 2008, which is the first chance you have at getting the office, if you want it then.

Penguinfan (American)

[Tom]

Woo hoo! Right on Penguin......I did not vote for Bush, I voted against Gore. I will not for Bush again, but against Kerry.

[cj]

Originally posted by penguinfan
... why don't you guys roll his fat ass out for office in 2008, which is the first chance you have at getting the office, if you want it then.



Because they will be rolling out Hillary's fat ass, that's why. :)

[cryptic1]

Interesting article in one of the Toronto papers this morning.
A big picture of Bill and Belinda Stronach walking together. The
article speculated on the possibililty of Bill's wife in the white
house in /08 and his girlfriend as the prime minister of
Canada. It appears we'll have billy boy around for a number
of years to snicker at.

cryptic1

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by sq764
Sec, so if he is directing this solely at the Bush administration, you can show me that all of these have just popped up in the last 4 years, right:

Are you proud that one in six children lives in poverty in America?

Are you proud that 40 million adult Americans are functional illiterates?

Are you proud that the bulk of the jobs being created these days are low- and minimum-wage jobs?

Are you proud of asking your fellow Americans to live on $5.15 an hour?

Are you proud that, according to a National Geographic Society survey, 85% of young adult Americans cannot find Iraq on the map (and 11% cannot find the United States!)?

Again, you omitted the beginning statement about to those questions:

"If you are one of those who love WHAT President BUSH has done for THIS country and believe you must blindly follow the president to deserve to fly the flag, you should ask yourself some difficult questions about just how proud you are of the America we now inhabit: "

In other words Moore's assertion is that it is Bush who has helped create those sad statistics....Moore isn't saying he is anti-America or America is bad. Just the opposite in fact. Our country has some things that need real improvement. WE as a nation should NEVER be proud of statistics like that OR try to hide from them. That's gutless. That's Bush. He's not addressing them, while he practices his golf down at the Crawford ranch.

Moore is a true patriot, and if all you guys got on him is that he is overweight and a slob, then he is making real headway.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by penguinfan
Secratariat

Us lifelong republicans who would also like to see change from the current administration just can't bring ourselves to do it because the alternative is people like yourself. You would sell your soul (or whats left of it) to satan himself, or worse, side with Moore to get the Dems in the white house. It is clear that the current administration has made too many mistakes to be allowed to continue another 4 years, though it is also obvious the Dems do not want the white house this day and age, after all the current administration is lobbing you guys a softball this November and the best you can come up with is Kerry, that just screams "we don't want the job". Instead you will be satisfied denouncing the current President, damn shame in my opinion.

You Moore supporters are the problem with this country, twist everything to support a position that you yourself cannot define. This guy, and his kool-aid drinking followers are a disgrace to this country and I agree they should be tried for treason and hung in public, which by the way is the only reason I would leave my house to see Moore.

I would like to hear Moore's position on the current commercial running by the Bush camp, Kerry has missed 2/3 of all votes the past year, including funding of troops, yet he found time to vote against the Lacy Peterson act, I am sure this makes sense to Moore supporters, why don't you guys roll his fat ass out for office in 2008, which is the first chance you have at getting the office, if you want it then.

Penguinfan (American)

Well Penguin...beleive it or not Kerry is pretty damn conservative from most liberal points of view. It shows how diametrically distant we all are as a party. But all Dem's are united in one thing, we agree with Cassius's quote about Julius Caesar paralleling GW Bush:

"Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world
Like a Colossus, and we petty men
Walk under his huge legs and peep about
To find ourselves dishonourable graves.
Men at some time are masters of their fates:"

See Penguin, we see things differently than you. We beleive the twisting occurs on the other side with the Limbaughs, and the FOX News, not with the Moore. We beleive in the investigative journalism of Edward R. Murrow, not the speaking heads of models simply parroting the Presidents latest remarks without any investigation.

Personally, Kerry is a little too conservative to me, but I respect his attempt to reach across the divide. I respect his war service, and his policies. Get past the rhetoric and go to his site. He has outlined his policies at www.johnkerry.com since he won the primaries. And if you want Moore's opinions he posts at www.michaelmoore.com

Personally, I don't care who you vote for. I figure everyone who voted for Gore is going to vote for Kerry which gives him the popular vote, so even if just a few realize we have a madman in the White House, and a few Nader voters come over to Kerry, it should be a pretty easy victory for Kerry. And if not, well our children wil continue funding the Halliburton's of the world with increased deficits...and more soldiers will pay the ultimate sacrifice....Life will go on in the US..

[sq764]

Moore is a true patriot?

I am speechless at that remark.. And I don't get speechless much. .. His brainwashing has certainly worked on one human so far.. (well 2, you and ljb)

[Bob Allen]

Originally posted by sq764
Moore is a true patriot?

I am speechless at that remark.. And I don't get speechless much. .. His brainwashing has certainly worked on one human so far.. (well 2, you and ljb)

Whew! Talk about some hot blooded rhetoric. What would a "true patriot" do? Why don't we ask someone who was smarter than anyone who has posted in this thread:

"Without dissent, there can be no patriotism."

Now who was the radical left winger who said that? Since everyone is busy looking up new epithets to hurl at Michael Moore for a film they won't or haven't seen let me just go ahead and give you the answer.

It was that beast of a patriot, who had he failed would have died at the hands of the enemy for his dissent written into a little thing we have called "The Declaration of Independence." Yep, Thomas Jefferson said it. A patriot.

But of course you know more than he, right? And if you are wrong you are willing to die, right? So don't play follow-the-leader so much, dissent is good. Dissent is Patriotic.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Bob Allen
"The Declaration of Independence." Yep, Thomas Jefferson said it. A patriot.

Dissent is Patriotic.

AMEN BROTHER...

[hcap]

Amen

Like sheep willing to be led to the slaughter, lemmings blindly following lemmings, you guys put up with lies in the name of patriotism.

The greatest danger, even more insidious than external terrorism is the enemy within. Wake up and smell Emanuel Goldstein posing for the cameras. Room 101 can't be far away. Lemmings will be eaten by rats, or worse neocons.

Your worse fears are the advantage taken by our dumbed down 1984 jailers. Fear is the "enemy" provided by our fearless leaders. Without questions NOW, those in power will get away with more power, and feel free to impose their idiotic world view on us. All in the name of the "Fatherland", or now they conveniently call it the Homeland. Amazing that terminology of the SS is back in vogue. Remember guys threre is NO horse betting allowed under a all seeing fundamentalist knee jerking holly roller, evildoer fighting regime.

Just a matter of time if bush gets re-elected in 2004. "1984 + 20, better late then never" should be bush/cheneys, election slogun.

http://www.online-literature.com/view.php/1984/22

"You asked me once,' said O'Brien, 'what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.'"

Another comment about Orwells' 1984...

"The government's most brilliant and most appalling project is the actual deconstruction of the English language into Newspeak, the language of the Party. Each successive edition of the Newspeak Dictionary has fewer words than its predecessor. By removing meaning and nuance from the vocabulary, the government hopes to eradicate seditious and anti-social thinking before it even has the chance to enter a person's mind. Without the vocabulary for revolution, there can be no revolution. For those who persist in thinking for themselves, so-called Thought Criminals, Ingsoc's stormtroopers, the Thought Police, are there to intervene, incarcerating the free-thinkers in the Ministry of Love, where they will be re-educated, or worse."

[hcap]

"Bush is sowing fear for votes:
Critics-- New Al Qaeda terror alert issued `July deadline' to find bin Laden"


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1089324611764&call_pageid=968332188854&tacodalogin=no

[sq764]

Here's the easy way out..

Since Michael Moore is a self-proclaimed genius and patriot.. Why doesn't he run for president? It only seems logical at this point.

If you are going to make a difference, don't write movies that are full of propaganda and speculation, don't take award acceptance opportunities to talk trash about the state of the country..

Do it the right way.. Until then, he's just another blowhard traitor who deserves zero respect..

[Tom]

"Moore is a true patriot, and if all you guys got on him is that he is overweight and a slob, then he is making real headway."

You are confusing patriotism with lyng.
But, with Kerry/Edwards as you leaders I can understand why.
Both claim to have values, but neither is willing to stand up for them. Bush has values, and he stands up for them, maybe in the wrong way sometimes, but at least he stands up for them.
A man who is afraid to stand up for what he believes is a coward.
Or a liar. No telling what weak character peole like theses two would do under the rpessure of the offices. I don't intend to find out.

MM? Ha! This is your idea of a patriot? Ha!

[dav4463]

There is a difference from being a patriot and dissenter and being a traitor and a danger to the country. Moore is a traitor.... he hates America soooo much....but he doesn't mind becoming a millionaire with his movie. How much did it cost to make the movie...not much...why not give some of those huge profits to the downtrodden he loves so much? He won't because he is a typical liberal who wants everybody to know he cares, but he doesn't have the time to help anybody out for real. He's too busy going to expensive restaurants, getting even fatter, and denouncing the country that made him a rich, famous slob.

[Tom]

"What does it profit , my bretheren,
If someone says he has faith but does not have works?"

Quote from JFK.


Kerry, Edwards, Moore, wooowooowooowooo!

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by dav4463
There is a difference from being a patriot and dissenter and being a traitor and a danger to the country. Moore is a traitor.... he hates America soooo much....but he doesn't mind becoming a millionaire with his movie. How much did it cost to make the movie...not much...why not give some of those huge profits to the downtrodden he loves so much? He won't because he is a typical liberal who wants everybody to know he cares, but he doesn't have the time to help anybody out for real. He's too busy going to expensive restaurants, getting even fatter, and denouncing the country that made him a rich, famous slob.

Yeah...your post shows you listen to much to Rush. But shows you know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.

Read what Mike (this "un-American" profiter has already done with proceeds thus far):

http://www.indiewire.com/biz/biz_980226_MiraMooreProfit.html

http://www.sundayherald.com/43167

And for those wanting to challenge the facts fo the movie read:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/

No news network has ever had to back up their assertions to the extent Moore is being asked to yet he keeps coming back with fact after fact.

Now ask yourself the last time Cheney gave a homelss person a nickel. <Cheyney Expletive>

Moore is a true model of someone who cares about helping the little guy. I am amazed at how so many working class people buy int othe manipulative morality of the Bush and Cheneyites. Now there is some serious profitering.!!!!

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Moore is a true model of someone who cares about helping the little guy. I am amazed at how so many working class people buy int othe manipulative morality of the Bush and Cheneyites. Now there is some serious profitering.!!!!

I suggest you check out this info..........yep...that is 8 million from Cheney.........and over a mil from Bush. BTW...most of that 7 mil Cheney gave that year was from Halliburton options.......funny you never hear that on the Network news................?

http://www.patriotsforbush.com/

http://www.patriotsforbush.com/contributions.gif

[Tom]

Haliburton profits going to charity!?!
Hmmmm. We could use a few more profiteers like Chenney.
BTW, I, too made a major kill on Haliburton just the other day - it was a prime bet for me at Woodbine!



Haliburton Honey Bahen Steven Ronald 122 5.10 3.00 2.10
2 Great Auntee Da Silva E. Rosa 118 5.10 2.40
1 Awesome Touch Landry Robert C. 120 2.10
:D

[Secretariat]

Well, JR, my response was to DAV who accused Moore of not giving money back to the little guy.

He has already given money to Flint soup kitchens, and due to his buyout from Disney is giving 60% of the money from the film to charities that Disney chooses.

My question was when was the last time Cheney gave a nickel to a homeless person. I don't doubt he gives his wife's proceeds from her book and a pittance of his Halliburton graft to some churches...but a homeless person...I just can't see it...Do you have a list of the charities he did donate to?

http://lautenberg.senate.gov/~lautenberg/press/2003/01/2003925A22.html

Above is where some of that Cheney charity money came from.

[Tom]

So you don't think the Churches give money to homeless people?
Now you bitch about where he gave the 8 million.
What a piece of work you are.

[JustRalph]

I am not going to get into dueling links with you Sec. I think the information speaks for itself. You try to characterize the Repubs in a certain light and when presented with something that refutes that, you don't take the info and digest it, you immediately spin it.

[dav4463]

Maybe Moore is different if he did give away a large amount of his profits, but what burns me up are the Hollywood stars who constantly bash the country yet enjoy all the money, fame, and freedom that this country has given them. Moore may help out the little guy, but he is still a traitor.....and I don't even listen to Rush...I listen to Sportsradio most of the time.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by dav4463
Maybe Moore is different if he did give away a large amount of his profits, but what burns me up are the Hollywood stars who constantly bash the country yet enjoy all the money, fame, and freedom that this country has given them. Moore may help out the little guy, but he is still a traitor.....and I don't even listen to Rush...I listen to Sportsradio most of the time.

Why is he a traitor?

[dav4463]

A traitor is someone who aids an enemy in a war against the country. He helps terrorists by showing his propaganda film, constant denouncing of the country, etc.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by dav4463
A traitor is someone who aids an enemy in a war against the country. He helps terrorists by showing his propaganda film, constant denouncing of the country, etc.

First, I disagree that it is a propaganda film, but a film that is attempting to ask questions, to get at the truth of what the heck is really going on. That's not propaganda. To simply acquiesce, to accept at face value administration policy (which incidentally was based on flawed intelligence according to the Senate Intelligence Report) without question is not very patriotic to me. Let me ask you if people had asked quesitons in Nazi Germany and denounced Hitler would you classifiy them as traitors? Would you agree that the men who fought in the Revolutionary War were patriots and not traitors? Was every man who fought in the south during the Civil War a traitor? Was the man who stood in front of that tank in Tianamen Square a traitor. He fits your definition.

I don't think so. They fought for causes that they beleived in, right or wrong. Moore beleives that this administration has taken this country down the wrong path. Frankly, I do to. He has not picked up a rifle to fight against America. He has not shot at American soldiers, but simply questioned policy. He's no traitor and we should be thankful he is asking these questions as our "fair and balanced" press seems more concerned whether their hair is combed and their botox injections look good on camera.

In the 1930's an America film called All Quiet on the Western Front won the Academy Award. An incredible film, some say the best film of the 20th century. This film shows the war from the point of view of the WW I German soldier at a time that Hitler was rising to power in Germany. Now was that traitorous? Of course not, it showed the cost of war, and the fact that normal men from both sides pay the brunt of the decisions of their leaders, so they damn well better be accurate and used as a last resort.

See the movie even if you don't see Moores.

[GameTheory]

Originally posted by Secretariat
First, I disagree that it is a propaganda film, but a film that is attempting to ask questions, to get at the truth of what the heck is really going on. That's not propaganda. To simply acquiesce, to accept at face value administration policy (which incidentally was based on flawed intelligence according to the Senate Intelligence Report) without question is not very patriotic to me. Let me ask you if people had asked quesitons in Nazi Germany and denounced Hitler would you classifiy them as traitors? Would you agree that the men who fought in the Revolutionary War were patriots and not traitors? Was every man who fought in the south during the Civil War a traitor? Was the man who stood in front of that tank in Tianamen Square a traitor. He fits your definition. First of all, remember you can only be a traitor to the establishment. The men that fought in the Revolutionary War (on the American side) were by definition traitors -- traitors to Great Britain. Doesn't mean they weren't right.

Anyway, calling Moore a traitor is going overboard, and makes light of the real traitors. Moore isn't selling secret information to the enemy or anything like that (I hope!). Moore is just a run-of-the-mill extremist, which in America makes you pretty lightweight compared to the hardcore extremists we're fighting against. Go to any college campus and you'll find dozens of Michael Moores. The only thing remarkable about him is that he's got a movie so people are talking about him. After a while he'll go back to being a nobody. (No one actually likes the guy -- Moore's supporters just like the fact that he is annoying the people they would like to be annoyed.)

[PaceAdvantage]

Wait a second. Isn't Moore giving some of the F9/11 profits to charity because DISNEY DEMANDED that he do this in order for them to release the movie to the Miramax brothers???

BTW, Moore takes his cut before the rest is divided up, make no mistake....

If Disney did not make it a condition for the release of the rights to the film, then I'll bet a whole lot less money would be going to charity....so let's not credit MM with this move....credit Disney.

[Secretariat]

Nice try Pa, but Disney hasn't determined the charities yet. THe money Moore gave to the Flint soup kitchens was out of his own cut.

[dav4463]

I cannot compare President Bush to Hitler.......Asking questions in Nazi Germany cannot be compared to asking questions in America. President Bush is doing what he believes is right, and you cannot deny that the man goes after the bad guys, and that he truly does what he believes should be done....and didn't Kerry and plenty other democrats support the war in Iraq at the time the decision had to be made ?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by dav4463
I cannot compare President Bush to Hitler.......Asking questions in Nazi Germany cannot be compared to asking questions in America. President Bush is doing what he believes is right, and you cannot deny that the man goes after the bad guys, and that he truly does what he believes should be done....and didn't Kerry and plenty other democrats support the war in Iraq at the time the decision had to be made ?

I cannot compare President Bush to Hitler either. I can also not call people who spoke up against Hitler as being traitors to Germany, but simply people who disagreed with a flawed Nazi policy. Am I comparing Bush to Hitler? No, I am distinguishing the difference between the dissent of flawed policy and blind nationalism.

I don't have any doubts that President Bush thinks what he is doing is right and goes after "select" bad guys and does what he beleives should be done (except No Child Left Behind- another thread -sorry). There isn't a President ever who didn't do what he thought should be done. However, one has to weigh what HAS been done and what has been the cost. The masterminds of Al queda are still at large. Certainly no large cache of weapons of mass destruction have been found which was reported as a slam dunk. Terrorism has increased world wide as Colin Powell stated only weeks ago. Anti-Americanism is rampant world wide. Leaders of the free world who supported Bush's polices are losing elections within their own countries primarily because of the their support of Bush's pre-emptive act regarding the Iraqi war. The reasons given to Congress for the authorization to go to the UN and enforce sanctions was not a unilateral act to go to war as Bush has advertised. And the reasons given to Congress about WMD's was most likely flawed as Tony Blair stated the other day. In addition historical documents by PNAC detail that Iraq was targeted pre-911 and no link has ever been provided linking Saddam Hussein with 911. The Cold War was about containment, not pre-emption and it worked. Thus far, Bush's new policy has cost taxpayers billions with a nation perpetually under terror warnings. Had he went directly after Al Queda and destroyed them in Afghansitan and Pakistan and Iran we would not be seen as a 10 year occupying force in Iraq.

So while I agree with your assertion that Bush thinks he is acting properly, his record has been a costly one in terms of real dollars and real lives.

[delayjf]

Michael Moore a patriot? Simply exerciseing one's constitutional right to free speech does not make one a patriot. He's a rich fat lying pos, tell me exactly, what has he sacrificed. This is one thing I really dispise about the libeal left. They pick up a protest sign (which I have no problem with) take up some cause and then pat themselves on the back and compare themselves to those who have fought and died for this country. How in the world can you or any of his supporters compare MM to the Minutemen at Concord or Valley Forge, or the men who stormed the beaches at Normandy or who served and died in Vietman..::confused

You can pat yourself on the back all you want and claim equative service to your country if that's what it takes to get you threw the night. But nobody will ever confuse MM for the brave men and women who have died for this country and for the oppressed around the world. Decent is only a part of Patriotism, it also requires action and self sacrifise and quite possible your life. Making a Movie based on lies and calling them fact, hardly rises to the above standard.

Michael Moorse a patriot??? :D I guess we could just reserve his slot in Arlington next to Jane Fonda: That way I could stand between their graves deficate them both at the same time.:D

[hcap]

Fahrenheit 9/11' Has Recruited
Unlikely Audience: U.S. Soldiers

By SHAILAGH MURRAY
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
July 12, 2004; Page A4

"The Cameo isn't a usual stop for Fort Bragg soldiers. Ms. Keunzel and her husband turned a dilapidated downtown Fayetteville building into a two-screen theater because they loved foreign and independent films and were tired of driving to Raleigh to see them.

Ms. Keunzel didn't even advertise the opening of "Fahrenheit 9/11" in the Fort Bragg newspaper. The film's area distributor told her, "Military people won't want to see it."

But the first two scheduled shows sold out so quickly she added a midnight show. The next day, she added more screenings, for a total of five a day. They all sold out, even though the new times were never published"

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB108958506463960810-H9je4NolaB3oJyvZnyHbqeEm4,00.html

[Lefty]

Moore says we're losing freedoms yet he has the freedom to spout lies and half truths about this adm in a time of war against great evils. He is profiting greatly from a propaganda film which gives his answers and viewpoints through slick editing and one viewpoint only. He's heard throughout the world. Just what freedoms has he lost? I hope the world can see through such an obvious oxymoron.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Lefty
Moore says we're losing freedoms yet he has the freedom to spout lies and half truths about this adm in a time of war against great evils. He is profiting greatly from a propaganda film which gives his answers and viewpoints through slick editing and one viewpoint only. He's heard throughout the world. Just what freedoms has he lost? I hope the world can see through such an obvious oxymoron.

Read The Patriot Act Lefty. (not to mention all the hidden amendments put on other bills of portions of Patriot Act II which couldn't pass on its own). Read it, not what Rush and Hannity tell you about it. Read it.

[Mike at A+]

Moore is a lying cut and paste dirtbag. His film had one goal and that was to make President Bush look bad. I hope he goes over his tax return real good next year because he's due for an audit.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
Moore is a lying cut and paste dirtbag. His film had one goal and that was to make President Bush look bad. I hope he goes over his tax return real good next year because he's due for an audit.

Moore didn't make Bush look bad...Bush did that all by himself.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Moore didn't make Bush look bad...Bush did that all by himself.

Well he's looking good to me in November. A vote for Kerry is a vote for continuing terrorism. A vote for Bush is a vote for exterminating terrorists. I'll take the latter any day. The only thing I don't like about Bush is his failure to nuke Tehran and Riyadh. Maybe in 2005 he'll see it my way. I lost a friend and a relative on 9/11. I now feel that anyone who even THINKS 9/11 was a "good thing" should be NUKED to HELL. Just my 2 cents. But I respect your right to see things differently. But most of Hollywood can kiss my a$$ and French wine can turn to vinegar as far as I'm concerned.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
Well he's looking good to me in November. A vote for Kerry is a vote for continuing terrorism. as far as I'm concerned.

While Serving in Vietnam... His 2nd tour as a Commisioned officer.

John Kerry Jumped off his Swift Boat.... Swam to shore.. Ran up a small hill... Put a clip of Bullets into the Heads of Two Viet-Congs... He Killed them Both. Turned around... Threw a wounded Comrade over his shoulder and swam him back to the boat. He saved his Life. That man campaigns with him today.

While John Kerry was doing that.. George Bush was snorting Cocaine and Binge Drinking up here in maine. On his Daddys Dime I might add. George Bush has botched the War on Terror.

John Kerry is an American Warrior and Hero. And we need his courage to defeat Terror. A vote for Kerry is a Vote for the Right War, the Right way.

[Lefty]

sec, you mean Moore isn't heard around the world and profting greatly from his propaganda film? I'll be darnedl seems that he is. Seems his freedoms are intact.

suff, get over Vietnam. This election hasn't got a damn thing to do with Vietnam.
The terror warrior is clearly Bush.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Suff
While Serving in Vietnam... His 2nd tour as a Commisioned officer.

John Kerry Jumped off his Swift Boat.... Swam to shore.. Ran up a small hill... Put a clip of Bullets into the Heads of Two Viet-Congs... He Killed them Both. Turned around... Threw a wounded Comrade over his shoulder and swam him back to the boat. He saved his Life. That man campaigns with him today.

While John Kerry was doing that.. George Bush was snorting Cocaine and Binge Drinking up here in maine. On his Daddys Dime I might add. George Bush has botched the War on Terror.

John Kerry is an American Warrior and Hero. And we need his courage to defeat Terror. A vote for Kerry is a Vote for the Right War, the Right way.

What Kerry and Bush did 35 years ago doesn't mean squat today. I'll take tax cuts and dead terrorists over flip flops and hatred any day.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
What Kerry and Bush did 35 years ago doesn't mean squat today. I'll take tax cuts and dead terrorists over flip flops and hatred any day.

Tax cuts? You did'nt get a tax cut. You borrowed money from the next guy. 550 Billion dollar deficit this year already... 1.5 Trillion,, Thats TRILLION with a T since he took office.

John Kerry... showed up and Killed to protect you and yours...


Bush was a No show. Kerry has 3 Purple Hearts and a Silver Star. Those Don't Matter?? Tell the WW11 Boys that what Happened 60 years ago don't matter.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Suff
Tax cuts? You did'nt get a tax cut. You borrowed money from the next guy. 550 Billion dollar deficit this year already... 1.5 Trillion,, Thats TRILLION with a T since he took office.
John Kerry... showed up and Killed to protect you and yours...
Bush was a No show. Kerry has 3 Purple Hearts and a Silver Star. Those Don't Matter?? Tell the WW11 Boys that what Happened 60 years ago don't matter.

Geez I'm arguing with a Red Sox fan. I CAN'T win this one. OK, lets try this again. Yes I DID get a nice tax cut. I'm doing better now than I was when BJ Clinton was using large chunks of my salary to redistribute wealth to those with no ambition in life. Regarding the deficit, it's just a freakin number as far as I'm concerned. I don't lose sleep over a number (unless it's blinking on the tote board and I have a $50 win ticket on it). And regarding 35 year old military records and medals, they mean nothing in a post-9/11 world unless you have committment TODAY! And to put it as simply as possible, Bush has shown that committment and continues to show it.

[sq764]

What the hell does 3 purple hearts do for Americans while in the White House??

Would Scwhartzkoff have made a great president? HELL NO..

What is your point

[Tom]

If Kerry is elected, we will have lost the war on terror. Fact.
If Gore were elected in 2000, :
1. SH still in charge
2. Lybia still manufacturing WMD and probably have already sold some to AQ
3. Taliban still rulling Afghanistan
4. N Korea still pounding its chest and might be a bigger threat than it is now
5. Iran still lying to the UN and proceeding with its nuclear program
6. UN, France, Germany still profiteering from oil-for food violations in Iraq.
7. More attacks on US soil a definate possibility. We have thwarted several plots already.
The dems do not have the guts to wage war on terror. The JFKs and Ted Kennedys of the world are not leaders - they are weak willed and misguided.
The world is much safer today thanks to Bush. And it will be even safer in 4 years after he continues his work.

[Lefty]

suff, John Kerry hs own darned self said back during the 1990 election that what happened during Vietnam shpuldn't be a consideration. He was protecting Clinton then who didn't even do National Guard duty. Now he has flop-flopped and you're right there flippind anda flopping with him.
What matters is will he fight the war on terror. I'm not satisfied with his answers.

[Lefty]

Maybe Michael Moore should be encouraged to do a couple more films. Since F-9-11 came out Bush's numbers are going up again.

[JustRalph]

Responses to M.Moores anti Bush F911

This is one long read.........but several parts are interesting and show moore to be one serious liar.........on many things in his film.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

[schweitz]

Originally posted by JustRalph
Responses to M.Moores anti Bush F911

This is one long read.........but several parts are interesting and show moore to be one serious liar.........on many things in his film.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

Thanks, Just Ralph,--pretty much explains what Michael Moore is all about---I have tried to stay out of this thread (how do you debate someone who thinks MM is a patriot?) but I had to comment on your excellent link.

[GameTheory]

Thank you Dave Kopel (the writer of the article). Can we now officially put to rest the idea that Moore is anything other than a liar? And you don't have to tell me to look at Moore's response on his website because Kopel has provided links to all of Moore's responses, or should I say non-responses.

As I said on this topic before, your personal politics don't matter when it comes to MM. Can't you see that rallying behind this OBVIOUS AND PROVEN liar (not to mention abrasive buffoon and attention whore) can't do anything but make you look bad by association? The smart liberals are denouncing Moore, not supporting him....

[dav4463]

Yeah, even the Democrats are embarrassed by Moore....at least the smart ones.

[Lefty]

I know sec doesn't want to hear this, but Moore has derided capitalism on more than one occasion, so he's just another socialist who once said that a 70% income tax is fair.

[Secretariat]

July 12th, 2004 1:07 pm
Veterans' Workers Thank Michael Moore for Highlighting Funding Shortage


WASHINGTON, July 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) National VA Council applauds Michael Moore, for focusing attention on the failure of the Bush Administration to provide adequate funding for veterans' care, in his popular documentary, Fahrenheit 9/11. The film depicts disabled veterans who served in Iraq receiving physical therapy for their injuries and discusses the need for more funding for veterans' programs.

"It's a disgrace, that during a time of war, our president has failed to adequately fund programs for veterans," said Alma Lee, president of AFGE's National VA Council, which represents health care professionals in the Department of Veterans Affairs. "Those who care for veterans every day are heartened by the attention Michael Moore brings to the need to allocate more federal money to veterans' programs."

"Plans for veterans requiring long-term care remain a mystery," said AFGE national president John Gage. "While the VA touts a projected decline in the veteran population, it fails to account for the fact that vets, like the rest of us, are living longer, and will require more intensive services and nursing home beds as they move into old age. Current projections also fail to take into account the needs of the future veterans now serving in Iraq and Afghanistan."

According to the VA, more than 18,000 veterans a month are refused access to VA health care because of an inadequate budget. This situation can only be expected to worsen as soldiers return from Afghanistan and Iraq. Already, around 20,000 soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have requested either services or benefits from the VA.

------

The American Federation of Government Employees is the largest federal employee union, representing 600,000 workers in the federal government and the government of the District of Columbia.

[Tom]

Originally posted by dav4463
Yeah, even the Democrats are embarrassed by Moore....at least the smart ones.


Both of them! :D