W-2 G 2017 Tax law changes

[EMD4ME]

http://app.bronto.com/public/viewmessage/html/22493/dkfs985zzgmye0rq811a9vv1z9qo3

Finally, maybe some good news

[AndyC]

http://app.bronto.com/public/viewmessage/html/22493/dkfs985zzgmye0rq811a9vv1z9qo3

Finally, maybe some good news

Any step is a good step but the legislation is still woefully inadequate.

[AltonKelsey]

How about no tax on racetrack winnings. Suspect that might help the game a smidgen and increase revenue for the states, probably more than the IRS would lose in taxes.

Snowball in hell, I know.

[MONEY]

From what I understand this legislation won't do much.

Here's what I got out of it.

You bet $200 on a single pick4 ticket, ex. 2X4X5X5=200.
The pick4 pays $799. In the old days $799 would be an IRS ticket.

With the new rule you would subtract $200 from the $799 leaving you with a non IRS $599.
If your pick4 paid $800, you would still have a $600 IRS ticket after subtracting your $200 investment.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I am usually wrong about most stuff.

[thaskalos]

From what I understand this legislation won't do much.

Here's what I got out of it.

You bet $200 on a single pick4 ticket, ex. 2X4X5X5=200.
The pick4 pays $799. In the old days $799 would be an IRS ticket.

With the new rule you would subtract $200 from the $799 leaving you with a non IRS $599.
If your pick4 paid $800, you would still have a $600 IRS ticket after subtracting your $200 investment.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I am usually wrong about most stuff.

You are wrong. The implementation of the newly proposed legislation would consider your above example as the modest 3-1 return that it really is...instead of the 798-1 windfall that the current law interprets it to be. If enacted...it would be a LANDMARK decision for the bettor, IMO.

[judd]

From what I understand this legislation won't do much.

Here's what I got out of it.

You bet $200 on a single pick4 ticket, ex. 2X4X5X5=200.
The pick4 pays $799. In the old days $799 would be an IRS ticket.

With the new rule you would subtract $200 from the $799 leaving you with a non IRS $599.
If your pick4 paid $800, you would still have a $600 IRS ticket after subtracting your $200 investment.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I am usually wrong about most stuff.. Isn't it strange you can wager $200 to win on a $30 horse and win $3,000 and get the full $3,000 and pay nothing,,,!,

[EMD4ME]

You are wrong. The implementation of the newly proposed legislation would consider your above example as the modest 3-1 return that it really is...instead of the 798-1 windfall that the current law interprets it to be. If enacted...it would be a LANDMARK decision for the bettor, IMO.

Absolutely correct.

It would save me over $10,000 in BS taxes per year paid to the city and state of NY. One can 100% right off W-2G's on their Federal return (if they indeed lose it back).

One CAN NOT fully write off their W-2 G's in NYC or NYS. Comes out to 3% on the dollar for me every year.

With this change, I would pay almost no ERRONEOUS taxes at all going forward.

[EMD4ME]

It's happened sometimes, not quite often where I wager $1000 into a Pick 4,5 or 6 AND...........

I get back $650 bucks which causes me to receive a W-2 G :mad:

Unfair.

[Fox]

One CAN NOT fully write off their W-2 G's in NYC or NYS. Comes out to 3% on the dollar for me every year.


That sucks

[EMD4ME]

This IS long overdue. They need to get this through. But just like everything else horse racing related , I'm sure someone crooked will get involved and kill it :bang:

[coachv30]

Can someone please clear something up for me? A buddy of mine hit a 20 cent super at MOH a few months back that paid $2344.00. He spent $10.20 on the ticket and is claiming to me that he does not have to pay taxes on it. He read me some jibber jabber off of the Bet America FAQ section that stated if the winnings are 300x more than your wager, then you are taxed on it.

I told him that if it showed up in his W2G section of his account then he is going to be required to present it at tax time. I hit a tri at PArx yesterday that paid $2180 for $1. I spent $8 on the ticket. If that's the case, mine wouldn't be subject to taxes either.

On top of that, I currently have nine W2G reports in my account summary section that of 10 and 20 cent supers that paid between $677 up to $1139. Not one of these wagers costed me more than $12, however, TVG still sent me a W2G in the mail for each of these. I've attached them below.....

Each year, I just turn them in at tax time. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!!

[EMD4ME]

Any bet that pays $602.00 for any MINIMUM BASE cost, is a W-2G.

For example: If I hit a dime super that pays $605 for a dime, it's taxed.

If I hit a dime super that pays $599.60 for a dime, it is NOT taxed.

If I hit that same dime super for .20, I get a W-2G for the $1199.20 (as that's how it works for NYRA rewards and other ADW's I know).

The total amount (total cost of ticket. For example: A 5 horse super box of $12) DOES NOT matter right now. It's the base bet that matters.

If you hit a .50 pick 4 that pays $500 for .50, it is NOT taxed as you did not collect $602.00. If you hit it twice, you get taxed as it is over $602

As for Canada, I can not speak for them. They have different rules. Think they don't have W-2 G's up there OR the .20 base complicates things.

Hope that helps

[coachv30]

Any bet that pays $602.00 for any MINIMUM BASE cost, is a W-2G.

For example: If I hit a dime super that pays $605 for a dime, it's taxed.

If I hit a dime super that pays $599.60 for a dime, it is NOT taxed.

If I hit that same dime super for .20, I get a W-2G for the $1199.20 (as that's how it works for NYRA rewards and other ADW's I know).

The total amount (total cost of ticket. For example: A 5 horse super box of $12) DOES NOT matter right now. It's the base bet that matters.

If you hit a .50 pick 4 that pays $500 for .50, it is NOT taxed as you did not collect $602.00. If you hit it twice, you get taxed as it is over $602

As for Canada, I can not speak for them. They have different rules. Think they don't have W-2 G's up there OR the .20 base complicates things.

Hope that helps

It actually reassured my thinking. However....my buddy lives in the states the Canada thing should be a moot point....thanks!!

[EMD4ME]

It actually reassured my thinking. However....my buddy lives in the states the Canada thing should be a moot point....thanks!!

I thought he lived in Canada. OK, if he lives in the states, he is subject to the W-2G. I've hit tax jobs on Canadian tracks, treated the same as if I bet a US track.

My pleasure :ThmbUp:

[jdhanover]

Any bet that pays $602.00 for any MINIMUM BASE cost, is a W-2G.

For example: If I hit a dime super that pays $605 for a dime, it's taxed.

If I hit a dime super that pays $599.60 for a dime, it is NOT taxed.

If I hit that same dime super for .20, I get a W-2G for the $1199.20 (as that's how it works for NYRA rewards and other ADW's I know).

The total amount (total cost of ticket. For example: A 5 horse super box of $12) DOES NOT matter right now. It's the base bet that matters.

If you hit a .50 pick 4 that pays $500 for .50, it is NOT taxed as you did not collect $602.00. If you hit it twice, you get taxed as it is over $602

As for Canada, I can not speak for them. They have different rules. Think they don't have W-2 G's up there OR the .20 base complicates things.

Hope that helps

To be clear, the base bet x 300-1 has to be over $602. If you bet $200 to win on a 7/2 shot and hit, the $900 won is not taxed. Guessing this was clear but just in case it wasn't to some.

The law change in the Congress now is to make it that the 300-1 applies against the total bet of that type made not just base bet that hit.

[Delta Cone]

To be 100% clear, ALL gambling winnings are taxable, not just those that generate a W2-G.

If I bet $2 to win and collect $10, my $8 profit is gambling winnings that are taxable.

See the IRS Tax Topic 419... https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc419.html

The key line is "You must report all gambling winnings on your Form 1040 as "Other Income" (line 21), including winnings that are not subject to withholding."

In practice, the IRS doesn't enforce this rule:

1) Because they know most gamblers are losers; there are plenty of $10 and $20 losses to offset the wins, thus no "winnings" to tax.

2) They don't have the budget or personnel to track this information down.

[thaskalos]

To be 100% clear, ALL gambling winnings are taxable, not just those that generate a W2-G.

If I bet $2 to win and collect $10, my $8 profit is gambling winnings that are taxable.

See the IRS Tax Topic 419... https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc419.html

The key line is "You must report all gambling winnings on your Form 1040 as "Other Income" (line 21), including winnings that are not subject to withholding."

In practice, the IRS doesn't enforce this rule:

1) Because they know most gamblers are losers; there are plenty of $10 and $20 losses to offset the wins, thus no "winnings" to tax.

2) They don't have the budget or personnel to track this information down.
The proceeds from the $2 wager are only taxable if they represent an overall profit at the end of the year. The mere fact that we make a temporary profit of $8 on a particular race does make this transaction taxable.

[AndyC]

To be clear, the base bet x 300-1 has to be over $602. If you bet $200 to win on a 7/2 shot and hit, the $900 won is not taxed. Guessing this was clear but just in case it wasn't to some.

The law change in the Congress now is to make it that the 300-1 applies against the total bet of that type made not just base bet that hit.

Therein lies the idiocy of the rules. Instead of looking at net wins, the rules only look at certain wins. $500 to win on a 20-1 shot wins $10,000 but $2 to win on a 300-1 trifecta only gets you $600 and a W-2G.

[AndyC]

The proceeds from the $2 wager are only taxable if they represent an overall profit at the end of the year. The mere fact that we make a temporary profit of $8 on a particular race does make this transaction taxable.


The term should be reportable. Whether or not it is taxable is a function of some other variables. Because horse bettors live in a sanctuary city of sorts with regard to tax laws they will never be taken to task for not reporting non-signer winners like the $8 amount you refer to above.

[Delta Cone]

Thask, of course you are right...as AndyC pointed out, I should have said "reportable"

Glad you are back. :)