Falcon Heights Police Shooting

[highnote]

Cop pulls over a car and shoots the driver when he reaches for his ID according to the driver's girlfriend. She live-streamed the aftermath of the shooting as her boyfriend was bleeding to death. He later died at the hospital.

She said the boyfriend told the cops he had a weapon and was licensed to carry it.

Cops handcuffed the girlfriend and put her and her daughter in the squad car and she continued live-streaming.

http://www.kare11.com/news/falcon-heights-officer-involved-shooting/265772810

Warning... it's horrible.

What is going on in this country?

[Parkview_Pirate]

...What is going on in this country?

Since speculation on the internet is rampant and unregulated, I'd be willing to bet that the action of "reaching for ID" conflicted with the command of "keep your hands where I can see them....."

Always keep your hands visible and DO NOT reach in your pocket, center console or glove compartment when pulled over by a police officer, until you've asked and received permission to do so.

Simple, actually.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by highnote...What is going on in this country?

People are jumping to conclusions based on biased reporting, never bothering to look at the whole picture, with data, analysis. Cherry picking isolated incidents and blowing them up to support their personal bias and agenda.

You know, the democrat way.

[MutuelClerk]

So does this ever happen to white people and we just don't hear about it? Do you guys think white people are less militant than blacks and just know to follow police commands? Do whites have more respect for the police? There is a disconnect and a problem here. Do you actually think race isn't part of this ( on either side)? Your answers seem too simple for a problem that seems pretty complex. It seems most of these incidents caught on video the police officers judgment is very poor.

[JustRalph]

Since speculation on the internet is rampant and unregulated, I'd be willing to bet that the action of "reaching for ID" conflicted with the command of "keep your hands where I can see them....."

Always keep your hands visible and DO NOT reach in your pocket, center console or glove compartment when pulled over by a police officer, until you've asked and received permission to do so.

Simple, actually.

I don't buy that. One reason. It happened to me hundreds of times, and I never shot anybody. I would just retreat. Start over, with a little more vim and vigor for the 2nd go round. Exit the kill zone.

I learned this back in the day. I don't know what the hell they are teaching today. I'm reading reports that this guy was a licensed concealed carrier. If so, he should have learned how to stay alive in a police situation while in training.

[Fager Fan]

So does this ever happen to white people and we just don't hear about it? Do you guys think white people are less militant than blacks and just know to follow police commands? Do whites have more respect for the police? There is a disconnect and a problem here. Do you actually think race isn't part of this ( on either side)? Your answers seem too simple for a problem that seems pretty complex. It seems most of these incidents caught on video the police officers judgment is very poor.

I thought this was going to be about the other police shooting that's all over the news. I haven't noted where that one took place.

I do think that you're correct, that part of the problem and why blacks may be too aggressively handled is the fear and suspicion of blacks by cops (and society). If your job is to deal directly with law breakers and blacks represent a bigger threat to your own safety, you're going to be quicker on the trigger. It's a natural human response. Add in someone being disrespectful, militant, or not following police directions, and the scenario becomes precarious.

While no one wants to see anyone wrongly killed, it's complex as you stated. we always hear the black anger, but we never hear the introspection about why people can fear blacks and how blacks can rectify this or how they can diffuse a situation.

On the other side, I think police need to be more vigilant about the mentality of those they hire. I'm sure some of these people should never be put into a police uniform.

[Fager Fan]

Here's the other one, it was in Baton Rouge:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alton-sterling-shooting-baton-rouge-police-sparks-outrage-protests-n604431

[jk3521]

There is something missing in police training. As soon as these officers"perceive " a danger to themselves they panic and overreact.

[davew]

So does this ever happen to white people and we just don't hear about it? Do you guys think white people are less militant than blacks and just know to follow police commands? Do whites have more respect for the police? There is a disconnect and a problem here. Do you actually think race isn't part of this ( on either side)? Your answers seem too simple for a problem that seems pretty complex. It seems most of these incidents caught on video the police officers judgment is very poor.


How many people declare 'I have a gun' when police approach?

[JustRalph]

There is something missing in police training. As soon as these officers"perceive " a danger to themselves they panic and overreact.

Yeah, the whole .004% of officers involved in these shootings

[Clocker]

How many people declare 'I have a gun' when police approach?

Most states require anyone with a concealed carry permit to immediately notify an officer that they are armed if they are stopped.

[forced89]

I learned this back in the day. I don't know what the hell they are teaching today. I'm reading reports that this guy was a licensed concealed carrier. If so, he should have learned how to stay alive in a police situation while in training.'

I'm a licensed concealed carrier. What they taught me in the class is to put both hands on the steering wheel while the cop approaches; to keep them there and tell him that you have a weapon and where it is; and not to move your hands until told to do so.

Two times I have been stopped and done this as stated above without incident. In fact both times the cop let me off the hook for being straight forward with him.

[jk3521]

Yeah, the whole .004% of officers involved in these shootings
I was only talking of these individuals, never meant all officers. They are human, they make mistakes. Like the rest of us. They aren't "Robo Cops".

[classhandicapper]

These kinds of avoidable deaths are tragic, but the media isn't doing anyone any favors by adding fuel to the fire. If you are going to report these cases because you feel there is a problem with police training and recruitment (and there seems to be), then report all cases (white on white, black on white, black on black etc...) and not just the white on black cases. Even if there is a racist or stereotyping aspect to some of these that also needs o be addressed (and there probably is), the reporting needs to be balanced so the racial damage is limited.

[jk3521]

Found this article. Don't know if true, but interesting.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2015/01/78-of-suspects-shot-by-a-black-cops-are-black/

[Tom]

There is something missing in police training. As soon as these officers"perceive " a danger to themselves they panic and overreact.

You say.
How many cops have been shot or killed in similar situations.
Convenient of you to ignore that.

[jk3521]

And this...

https://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

[jk3521]

An interesting perspective..

https://www.propublica.org/article/yes-black-america-fears-the-police-heres-why


Walk a mile in my shoes.

[classhandicapper]

The problem with many of these studies is that they don't control for crime stats in the areas where most of these shootings occur (most likely intentionally because there is a PC and/or liberal agenda).

That is not to say there isn't a problem. There clearly is.

It's just that the probability of being shot is way higher if you live in a crime infested area where the police are very worried about their own lives, if you just committed a crime, if you displayed a gun, and/or if you didn't follow police instructions exactly, than it is if you live in Beverly Hills and have a positive attitude about the police and police protection. For economic, experience, and attitude reasons alone, there will be more blacks shot than population distributions suggest should be.

[iceknight]

I just finished reading a book on the Civil war and the mentality of many people in this country has not changed one bit from those times.

Sad, but that is the reality.

Black peoole serve ~20% of US military and that is much higher than their proportion in the general population,.. They serve for your freedom to say idiotic and racist things.

[Tom]

I just finished reading a book on the Civil war and the mentality of many people in this country has not changed one bit from those times.

Sad, but that is the reality.

Black peoole serve ~20% of US military and that is much higher than their proportion in the general population,.. They serve for your freedom to say idiotic and racist things.

What about the 90% of idiotic and racist things said by other Black people?

[JustRalph]

So does this ever happen to white people and we just don't hear about it? Do you guys think white people are less militant than blacks and just know to follow police commands? Do whites have more respect for the police? There is a disconnect and a problem here. Do you actually think race isn't part of this ( on either side)? Your answers seem too simple for a problem that seems pretty complex. It seems most of these incidents caught on video the police officers judgment is very poor.

Here you go

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/07/caught-on-video-police-shoot-19-year-old-man-during-chaotic-traffic-stop/

[Robert Fischer]

Very few cops are racists.

Too many cops are thugs with fragile egos.

There are a lot crappy areas with blacks and minorities, so those areas will have a lot of confrontations.

The racist crap is the best weapon that those crappy neighborhoods have at their disposal. There is also a lot of value and power in that claim to control the minds of people.

i have no idea about the falcon heights incident. He may have posed a life-or-death threat to the officer. Just because it happened after the Alton Sterling incident, doesn't make it another murder.

The lack of video body cameras and vehicle cameras is something that has to be addressed. Gray and Sterling were murdered by bad cops, but (systemically) worse is the fact that no one on the team of cops that killed Gray, and no one on the team of cops that killed Sterling said "hey, my partner just killed this guy, we have to investigate this!".

Systemically that is a big problem, and part of that abuse of power results in an imbalance of power. That imbalance in part results in a media propaganda push of 'racist cops' that many ignorant people believe in. If we had video evidence (with no excuses allowed saying "oh the camera malfunctioned, fell off, etc) and accountability when a murder(or any abuse of power, improper conduct) occurs on camera, it would be a strong deterrent of such actions.

Right now it's = you are in a dangerous situation, anything goes as long as you aren't flagrant, stick to the code of brotherhood, etc...
This style feeds into the few bad apples. Some people are monsters from their environment.

[Marshall Bennett]

Black peoole serve ~20% of US military and that is much higher than their proportion in the general population,.. They serve for your freedom to say idiotic and racist things.
Black people also make up only 12% of the population, yet account for nearly the same percentage of the criminal element as whites, who are 72% of the population. This is a fact, not a racist remark. If someone questions why cases where whites died aren't news, you assume they're racist for doing so? What are these "idiotic and racist things" you're referring to. There are a couple threads going about police shootings where blacks died, but I haven't seen any racist remarks.

[highnote]

Here is the live streamed video taken by the girlfriend of the man who was shot (warning -- very graphic):

sZ7DhbRUvNI

[Parkview_Pirate]

So does this ever happen to white people and we just don't hear about it? Do you guys think white people are less militant than blacks and just know to follow police commands? Do whites have more respect for the police? There is a disconnect and a problem here. Do you actually think race isn't part of this ( on either side)? Your answers seem too simple for a problem that seems pretty complex. It seems most of these incidents caught on video the police officers judgment is very poor.

While the overall problems of race relations are complex, how to interact with the police when being pulled over is NOT complex. You are considered, and rightly so, a threat, until the officer determines otherwise. If you have issues with your rights, those can be sorted out in court. But confronting an armed officer of the law is rarely, if ever, a good idea.

Race is definitely a part of this problem, and lack of proper training for both civilians and officers is another. Getting qualified candidates into the police career field has got to be an incredible challenge these days, considering it has such a low level of respect in our society.

Have you ever noticed how often the perp is resisting arrest or ignoring commands from the police when these tragic events occur? Why is that?

BTW - as pointed out by forced89, when pulled over keep your hands on the steering wheel or dash board - and if pulled over at night, turn on the dome light in the car to make it easier for the officer to perform their duty. This is something that's taught in self-defense classes today, and was also taught to me 35 years ago in the military.

<disclaimer> I'm not a cop, nor have never been one - just being a cooperative and decent citizen. I've been pulled over at least 20 times, and have only received three citations in that same time frame.

[highnote]

In the video, you can see the driver bleeding and looking like he is in shock and almost unrespondent. I wish there was more information about what took place before the driver was shot.

The girlfriend said her boyfriend told the cop he had a weapon and he was licensed to carry it. She said the cop told him to show his license and registration. She said that when her boyfriend reached for his wallet the cop shot him.

I would like to know if the cop ever saw a weapon in the driver's hand, or did the cop panic?

Is it OK to shoot someone before you see a weapon? Is it better to shoot first and ask questions later?

I've never been a cop and I don't know all the details of this particular shooting. So I will not pass judgment.

Here is the live streamed video taken by the girlfriend of the man who was shot (warning -- very graphic):

sZ7DhbRUvNI

[Fager Fan]

I just finished reading a book on the Civil war and the mentality of many people in this country has not changed one bit from those times.

Sad, but that is the reality.

Black peoole serve ~20% of US military and that is much higher than their proportion in the general population,.. They serve for your freedom to say idiotic and racist things.

Sounds like you're not much interested in thinking deeply about a subject. It's far easier to toss out your "racist" labels.

[highnote]

The Minnesota governor said this: "Philando Castile Would Be Alive If He Were White".

Here is the live streamed video taken by the girlfriend of the man who was shot (warning -- very graphic):

sZ7DhbRUvNI

[Tom]

The Minnesota governor said this: "Philando Castile Would Be Alive If He Were White".

And he is an idiot.
He must be, he lives in Minnesota!
I've been to Minnesota, and I've had a colonoscomy.....guess which was the more pleasant experience?

[highnote]

All good points below. I've never had a problem, either, but I'm white.

The driver in the shooting had a bunch of motor vehicle citations over the years -- including being pulled over for a loud muffler.

I grew up in the Midwest in a very poor community. I had more than my fair share of loud mufflers, burned out headlights, missing blinkers and taillights and I was never pulled over for any of those.

Have times have changed, or could it be that cops really do tend to target black people more than white?

While the overall problems of race relations are complex, how to interact with the police when being pulled over is NOT complex. You are considered, and rightly so, a threat, until the officer determines otherwise. If you have issues with your rights, those can be sorted out in court. But confronting an armed officer of the law is rarely, if ever, a good idea.

Race is definitely a part of this problem, and lack of proper training for both civilians and officers is another. Getting qualified candidates into the police career field has got to be an incredible challenge these days, considering it has such a low level of respect in our society.

Have you ever noticed how often the perp is resisting arrest or ignoring commands from the police when these tragic events occur? Why is that?

BTW - as pointed out by forced89, when pulled over keep your hands on the steering wheel or dash board - and if pulled over at night, turn on the dome light in the car to make it easier for the officer to perform their duty. This is something that's taught in self-defense classes today, and was also taught to me 35 years ago in the military.

<disclaimer> I'm not a cop, nor have never been one - just being a cooperative and decent citizen. I've been pulled over at least 20 times, and have only received three citations in that same time frame.

[Tom]

Have times have changed, or could it be that cops really do tend to target black people more than white?

Or have they been given good reason to?
I don't buy the CNN BS for a second.

And btw, just where is the outrage of the Black on Black murders by the hundreds in Baltimore and Chicago? Don't seem to see a lot of that covered, but a handful - what did Ralph post, .004?

Sorry, I was not born yesterday.

[Parkview_Pirate]

That video is very odd in that the woman is relatively composed, almost to the point of complacency, while you can hear the cop stating he told Mr. Castile to NOT reach for his ID - in a very stressed voice.

She seems to be more interested in making sure her comments get put out on the video stream, rather than following directions to get out of the car - and get aid to her boyfriend more quickly.

[horses4courses]

Or have they been given good reason to?


That's about as racist an approach as you can take on this tragedy.
Why am I not surprised?

[highnote]

That video is very odd in that the woman is relatively composed, almost to the point of complacency, while you can hear the cop stating he told Mr. Castile to NOT reach for his ID - in a very stressed voice.

She seems to be more interested in making sure her comments get put out on the video stream, rather than following directions to get out of the car - and get aid to her boyfriend more quickly.


I had the same impression. But later she is hysterical, but her daughter tries to comfort her.

Also, the cop told her to keep her hands where he could see them. He didn't tell her to get out of the car.

Maybe she knew she had to stay composed in order to make sure she recorded the video?

The thing that I found odd is that one cop told her to get on her knees and then he handcuffed her. I guess they thought she was a threat?

If my wife was shot, I'm not sure that I'd be live-streaming the event. However, I'm not black, so the possibility of my wife or me being shot by a cop has never has crossed my mind.

[Tom]

That's about as racist an approach as you can take on this tragedy.
Why am I not surprised?

Two cops just shot at protest in Dallas.
Stick your comment where it belongs, Eintstein.

NO DOUBT over these shootings.
BLUE lives matter.

[highnote]

Cop pulls over a car and shoots the driver when he reaches for his ID according to the driver's girlfriend. She live-streamed the aftermath of the shooting as her boyfriend was bleeding to death. He later died at the hospital.

What is going on in this country?

I started this thread and asked the question "What is going on in this country?"

My reaction must be a pretty common one. Kenny Mayne posted Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On" on twitter in reaction to the all the shootings this week.

H-kA3UtBj4M

[Clocker]

The Minnesota governor said this: "Philando Castile Would Be Alive If He Were White".

The governor, Mark Dayton, is an idiot. My brother lives in Minnesota, and I have spent a lot of time there. Dayton is a trust fund baby who has never held a real job in his life. His family started a department store, Dayton's, which grew to be a very big chain called Dayton Hudson. Later they started subsidiaries called Target and B. Dalton, and later changed the name of the corporation to Target.

Based on family donations to the Democrats, Mark Dayton's career has been one of high level government appointments and elected office. He has openly been on long term medication for depression and other problems. He once vetoed a budget bill and shut down the state government because the spending increases weren't as large as he had asked for. He has a history of saying and doing stupid crap like this.

As a US Senator, he introduced legislation to create a new cabinet level agency, the Department of Peace.

From Wiki:

In April 2006, Dayton was rated one of America's "Five Worst Senators" by Time magazine, which also labeled him "The Blunderer" for such "erratic behavior" as his temporary closure of his office in 2004 because of an unspecified terrorist threat, his complaints about "limited power in a chamber where authority derives from seniority," and his comments in February 2005 that the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota was "worth a hell of a lot more than the whole state of South Dakota", a remark he later apologized for. News reports of a Dayton question-and-answer session quote the Senator giving himself a "F" grade for his time in the Senate. Largely based on his Washington behavior, The New Republic dubbed Dayton's subsequent run for state-level elected office "Eeyore For Governor."

In the moonbat Minnesota Democratic Party, Dayton and his policies are considered to be more or less mainstream. :rolleyes:

[Clocker]

The cop who did the shooting has been identified: Jeronimo Yanez.

How long before the moonbat media calls him a White Hispanic? :rolleyes:

http://www.startribune.com/st-anthony-officers-in-shooting-identified/385941491/

[highnote]

The governor, Mark Dayton, is an idiot. .... Dayton is a trust fund baby who has never held a real job in his life.

Similar to George Bush II -- and he became president! :D

[Tom]

The cop who did the shooting has been identified: Jeronimo Yanez.

How long before the moonbat media calls him a White Hispanic? :rolleyes:

http://www.startribune.com/st-anthony-officers-in-shooting-identified/385941491/

CNN has a $100,000 reward for any photos of this guy drinking tea.
$75,000 for Photo-shopped .

[ElKabong]

Similar to George Bush II -- and he became president! :D

Seriously????

[highnote]

Seriously????

Well, sort of. I was being ironic in a joking kind of way.

Conservatives complain about the Minn Gov never having a job and only getting elected because of his family ties.

Liberals said the same thing about GBII.

For example, does anyone think GBII would have been able to become part owner of a MLB team without his family's political connections? I don't blame him. He leveraged the tools he had available.

Your remark about the Minn Gov just struck me as ironic because it is the other side of the coin that liberals use.

[JustRalph]

Well, sort of. I was being ironic in a joking kind of way.

Conservatives complain about the Minn Gov never having a job and only getting elected because of his family ties.

Liberals said the same thing about GBII.

For example, does anyone think GBII would have been able to become part owner of a MLB team without his family's political connections? I don't blame him. He leveraged the tools he had available.

Your remark about the Minn Gov just struck me as ironic because it is the other side of the coin that liberals use.

You think the Minn Gov could have graduated the United States Air Force flight school? Graduate in the top 2% and get an assignment in fighters? It might have been GW's Zenith, but he also got better grades than Al Gore and John Kerry in a couple of the best colleges in the country. Jus.....sayin.......

[ElKabong]

Well, sort of. I was being ironic in a joking kind of way.

Conservatives complain about the Minn Gov never having a job and only getting elected because of his family ties.

Liberals said the same thing about GBII.

For example, does anyone think GBII would have been able to become part owner of a MLB team without his family's political connections? I don't blame him. He leveraged the tools he had available.

Your remark about the Minn Gov just struck me as ironic because it is the other side of the coin that liberals use.

what remark about the MN Gov? I never commented on the guy on this board.

GWB was a landman for a period of time. If you don't think that's hard work, try it some time. People will tell you if you like your ego driven in the ground and your teeth kicked in, it's the perfect gig.

As far as being the pitchman for the Rangers, he was incredibly good. Have to remember how terrible that franchise was before, when Eddie Chiles ran it (and before him). He gave the franchise a totally different look. All politics aside....Whatever they paid him, he earned it.

[therussmeister]

Most states require anyone with a concealed carry permit to immediately notify an officer that they are armed if they are stopped.
Minnesota doesn't.

[Fager Fan]

Minnesota doesn't.

Sounds stupid of Minnesota. What's the rationale? Seems it's far safer for both parties to disclose immediately.

[highnote]

You think the Minn Gov could have graduated the United States Air Force flight school? Graduate in the top 2% and get an assignment in fighters?

I know almost nothing about the Minn Gov.

It might have been GW's Zenith, but he also got better grades than Al Gore and John Kerry in a couple of the best colleges in the country. Jus.....sayin.......

I've always thought GWB was intelligent. Dan Quayle, too. Reagan was great on camera. GWB and Quayle, not so much, but that doesn't mean they're dumb.

I used to work with the CEO of GTE before they merged with Verizon. He was pretty bad at public speaking, but he walked away with 200 million after the merger. Being a good public speaker is not necessarily a prerequisite for being intelligent.

[highnote]

Similar to George Bush II -- and he became president! :D

Boy... you guys are touchy. No sense of humor around here.

[highnote]

Newt Gingrich on "every day danger of being black in America":

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/newt-gingrich-van-jones-race_us_577fd018e4b01edea78d9e1c?section=

Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.), a former House Speaker whom presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump is reportedly vetting for vice president, said Friday that black people in the U.S. “are substantially more likely to be in a situation where the police don’t respect you, and where you could easily get killed.”

“Sometimes, for white people, it’s difficult to appreciate how real that is,” Gingrich said during a Facebook Live conversation with former Obama administration official Van Jones. “It’s an everyday danger.”

“If you’re an African-American, then you’re raising your teenage boys to be very careful in obeying the police,” Gingrich said to Jones, who is black and the father of teenagers. “Literally, their lives are at risk [if they interact with police], and they can see that on television.”

[newtothegame]

Hmmmm......

Interesting read!!!!
Apparently, they were NOT pulled over for a tail light......

And he apparently did NOT have a conceal carry permit.....

And there were similiarities to a robbery days earlier....

Maybe this is what the officer was really thinking versus "lets go hunting"....


https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/08/confirmed-philando-castile-was-an-armed-robbery-suspect-false-media-narrative-now-driving-cop-killings/

[Inner Dirt]

Hmmmm......

Interesting read!!!!
Apparently, they were NOT pulled over for a tail light......

And he apparently did NOT have a conceal carry permit.....

And there were similiarities to a robbery days earlier....

Maybe this is what the officer was really thinking versus "lets go hunting"....


https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/08/confirmed-philando-castile-was-an-armed-robbery-suspect-false-media-narrative-now-driving-cop-killings/

While still wrong what the cop did, people have to put themselves in their shoes. When they pull you over they don't know if you are the world's nicest guy coming back from leaving $100 of groceries at the food bank or you just shot the clerk dead while robbing a liquor store 3 blocks away. When pulled over, keep your hands on the steering wheel and speak in a calm and respectful manner. Don't even breathe till instructed to do so.
Behave like that and your chances of a negative interaction with police is very low.

[Racetrack Playa]

Hmmmm......

Interesting read!!!!


And he apparently did NOT have a conceal carry permit.....




https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/08/confirmed-philando-castile-was-an-armed-robbery-suspect-false-media-narrative-now-driving-cop-killings/
I read it , but I didn't find evidence that led me to believe that he wasn't licensed to carry. maybe Not A Very Good article


Minn. police use body-cams, any footage/audio from the scene should/will be an interesting watch!!

[newtothegame]

I read it , but I didn't find evidence that led me to believe that he wasn't licensed to carry. maybe Not A Very Good article


Minn. police use body-cams, any footage/audio from the scene should/will be an interesting watch!!

So when the story I linked says the local sherriff says that they did NOT issue nor was it applied for.....and no evidence of a ccp can be found (there or other counties presumably), that wasn't pretty substantial evidence that he did NOT have one?

Or when the lady claims that they were pulled over for a broken tail light, when that again was NOT the case?????

Or how about the FACT that the police thought he might possibly be the robbery suspect in which a Be On Look Out for was the actual reason for the stop....?????

Or how about what appears to be the gun laying across his left leg........????

Or how in the video shown near the bottom of the story, the cop tells her not to reach towards him (referring to the BF) and the obvious location of the gun??? This would further substantiate the cops story.

Cartons of Newports were stolen in the robbery days earlier and days later, the lady in the car is seen in a picture holding a pack of newports....???

Ok, again, I am not saying the guy deserved to die.....
HOWEVER, I am saying that I can easily see how a cop, thinking he may be rolling up on an armed robbery suspect, sees a gun in suspects lap, suspect reaches, and POW!

Prior to seeing this story, I was about 10% thinking the cop may get off for being a cop and 90% sure he was going his ass to jail and possibly fry.
NOW, I can easily see this cop walking. Of course, JMHO

[Fager Fan]

I'd think holding (or trying to hide) a gun in your lap as a cop approaches your car makes it reasonable for the cop to shoot first.

[TJDave]

Most states require anyone with a concealed carry permit to immediately notify an officer that they are armed if they are stopped.

Not quite. Most states that allow are "if asked". The smart thing is to surrender your DL and carry permit.

[forced89]

When pulled over, keep your hands on the steering wheel and speak in a calm and respectful manner. Don't even breathe till instructed to do so.
Behave like that and your chances of a negative interaction with police is very low.

As I posted earlier this is what I was told to do when taking class for my concealed permit in TX. This is exactly what I did twice when stopped for speeding (in AR and LA). Both times the cop was so appreciative that I was given warnings instead of tickets.

[Racetrack Playa]

Maybe, Philandro Castile obtained a permit through Hennepin Co. and not Ramsey Co., Just thinkin.... outloud ,

GL 2day if you Play the Ponies :ThmbUp:

[highnote]

Hmmmm......

Interesting read!!!!
Apparently, they were NOT pulled over for a tail light......

And he apparently did NOT have a conceal carry permit.....

And there were similiarities to a robbery days earlier....

Maybe this is what the officer was really thinking versus "lets go hunting"....


https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/08/confirmed-philando-castile-was-an-armed-robbery-suspect-false-media-narrative-now-driving-cop-killings/

As time goes by more information will come out. Some of it will be true and some of it will be false. Freedom of speech is essential and it's good to be able to discuss this in a court of public opinion. But it's not good to base conclusions on potentially false information.

The girlfriend's video is only part of the story. We don't get to see what happened before she started shooting the video.

Ultimately, the facts must be gathered by both sides, a case built, and then tried in a court of law.

[JustRalph]

A whole different kettle of fish now. Gun on the thigh? First I heard that.

Possible armed robbery suspects?

NOT GUILTY.....? ....THE GUN ON THE THIGH CHANGES EVERYTHING.

Cops don't wait to play quick draw with suspects. I probably wouldn't have shot him, but I can understand now why he chose to shoot.

[Robert Fischer]

i have no idea about the falcon heights incident. He may have posed a life-or-death threat to the officer. Just because it happened after the Alton Sterling incident, doesn't make it another murder.


Other than happening right after the Sterling murder, I'm still not sure what evidence the Falcon Heights incident has that proves it's a murder.
??
The only thing the FH incident says to me is = 1.let's look at the body cam footage. 2. Why don't we have body cam footage?

everything else is just blindly riding the coattails of the Sterling murder a day or two earlier.
Those who happen to be up in arms, should be focusing on the incident that has video evidence, and asking why the Falcon Heights incident does not.

[Clocker]

A whole different kettle of fish now. Gun on the thigh? First I heard that.

Possible armed robbery suspects?

NOT GUILTY.....? ....THE GUN ON THE THIGH CHANGES EVERYTHING.

Cops don't wait to play quick draw with suspects. I probably wouldn't have shot him, but I can understand now why he chose to shoot.

I don't see anything identifiable as a gun in the picture in that link. A search shows inconclusive evidence as to whether or not the guy had a carry permit.

The KARE-11 (NBC TV) web site has dispatcher tapes showing that the cops pulled him over because of the robbery alert, not because of a broken tail light.

And I just found this:

A suburban Minnesota police officer who killed a black driver reacted to the man's gun, not his race, his attorney said Saturday, giving the most detailed account so far of why the officer drew his own weapon.

Philando Castile's girlfriend, who streamed the immediate aftermath of the shooting live on Facebook, has said he was shot several times after telling the officer he had a gun and a permit to carry it.

St. Anthony Police Officer Jeronimo Yanez was reacting to "the presence of that gun and the display of that gun" when he opened fire on Castile, Minneapolis attorney Thomas Kelly told The Associated Press. He declined to elaborate on how Castile displayed the weapon or what led up to the deadly Wednesday traffic stop.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension said several videos, including squad car video, have been collected, though St. Anthony officers don't wear body cameras.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/minnesota-police-officer-philando-castile-gun-race/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=26380873 (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/minnesota-police-officer-philando-castile-gun-race/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=26380873)

[Clocker]

??
The only thing the FH incident says to me is = 1.let's look at the body cam footage. 2. Why don't we have body cam footage?


Those who happen to be up in arms, should be focusing on the incident that has video evidence, and asking why the Falcon Heights incident does not.

Because that department does not use body cams. There was apparently dash cam video, which state investigators have collected. And I can't imagine they are going to release any video at this early stage.

[Robert Fischer]

Because that department does not use body cams.


Ok.
That's good enough for me then.


:bang:

[highnote]

It might come down to who a judge and jury think gives the more credible testimony. Until more facts are known all anyone who wasn't there can do is speculate.

[Clocker]

Wow, who could have seen this coming in Minnesota?

Rev. Jesse Jackson made a surprise visit to the governor's mansion Saturday after spending the day with Reynolds and her daughter. Jackson said the shooting death was a wake-up call for America and urged unity, saying, "the whole world is watching,”

Those words seem vaguely familiar. I wonder if I have heard them before. :rolleyes:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/07/09/lawyer-minnesota-cop-reacted-gun-not-race/86894752/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/07/09/lawyer-minnesota-cop-reacted-gun-not-race/86894752/)

[highnote]

If I was the police officer's attorney I would make the same claim -- that the officer saw a weapon displayed. What we don't know is the manner in which the gun was displayed. The attorney declined to offer specifics. The facts will come out in the trial.

[Clocker]

If I was the police officer's attorney I would make the same claim -- that the officer saw a weapon displayed. What we don't know is the manner in which the gun was displayed. The attorney declined to offer specifics. The facts will come out in the trial.

If there is sufficient evidence of a gun, 'no reasonable prosecutor' would bring such a case to trial. :rolleyes:

[newtothegame]

If there is sufficient evidence of a gun, 'no reasonable prosecutor' would bring such a case to trial. :rolleyes:
Not too mention, we do NOT (nor will ever) know the "intent" of the officer. For all I know, he was intent on going home without incident that day....
Therefore, Lynch and the DOJ should just "close" the case!

[Clocker]

Not too mention, we do NOT (nor will ever) know the "intent" of the officer. For all I know, he was intent on going home without incident that day....
Therefore, Lynch and the DOJ should just "close" the case!

Ah, The Hillary Defense, now firmly established in America case law.

[JustRalph]

The other side..........who knows what's true

http://www.snopes.com/philando-castile-was-not-wanted-for-armed-robbery/

[ElKabong]

Hmmmm......

Interesting read!!!!
Apparently, they were NOT pulled over for a tail light......

And he apparently did NOT have a conceal carry permit.....

And there were similiarities to a robbery days earlier....

Maybe this is what the officer was really thinking versus "lets go hunting"....


https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/08/confirmed-philando-castile-was-an-armed-robbery-suspect-false-media-narrative-now-driving-cop-killings/

The Baton ROuge killing looked like a murder. This one in falcon hts shouldn't have been such a knee jerk reaction imo...For starters, that woman's reaction seemed more of an act than a woman in panic.

Seeing that photo of a gun by his leg....who has a gun by his leg when a cop pulls you over....(someone who is about to use it)

[highnote]

If there is sufficient evidence of a gun, 'no reasonable prosecutor' would bring such a case to trial. :rolleyes:

Isn't there a possibility of a civil trial?

[highnote]

Seeing that photo of a gun by his leg....who has a gun by his leg when a cop pulls you over....(someone who is about to use it)

Or someone who just told the police he has a weapon and is licensed to carry it?

I don't know all the facts. I'm just raising the question. I have no dog in this fight.

[Fager Fan]

Isn't there a possibility of a civil trial?

It was a joke, lownote.

[highnote]

The other side..........who knows what's true

http://www.snopes.com/philando-castile-was-not-wanted-for-armed-robbery/


Hopefully, an official investigation by law enforcement (as opposed to the one being done here in the PaceAdvantage Court of Public Opinion;) ) will reveal the true facts.

[Parkview_Pirate]

It's all starting to make more sense now. Castile fits the description of the robbery suspect, and fails to follow the "don't move" order from the police officer. The cop may have had a twitchy finger, but his mindset is now clear.

The woman in the car lied in the video immediately, stating Castile was directed to get his ID. There's no doubt in my mind her goal in streaming the video was to set up a law suit, and to get money any way possible. The "Go-Fund-Me" accounts set up by her family have already raised close to a quarter of a million dollars. She didn't realize (or care) how badly Castile was injured early on, being distracted by getting the video out and all the dollars that would bring in.

When I first saw this video, it reminded me of the trooper in South Carolina who shot a black men who dove quickly back inside his vehicle to get his license.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaaeXIg9kSk

In that case, the trooper was fired and then pleaded guilty to aggravated assault. The victim received $300,000 in a settlement, though IMHO he shouldn't have moved so quickly to get his license either....

[Parkview_Pirate]

An interesting perspective..

https://www.propublica.org/article/yes-black-america-fears-the-police-heres-why


Walk a mile in my shoes.

Interesting perspective perhaps, but full of contradictions. The author conveniently fails to mention the race of the shooter on the 4th of July, probably because it doesn't fit with the subject matter of the rest of the article. She mentions the Ivy League professor who feels "humiliated" for being jacked up by the police due to matching the description of a suspect. That makes no sense. Is the cop supposed to consider you a special snowflake, regardless of your appearance?

She and her friends didn't want to call the police after the shooting incident, because it's often more trouble than it's worth. So, a legitimate complaint, but choosing not to participate in improving the system doesn't help either. Especially when she later goes on to write:

But it’s also true that crime reduction efforts by black people in black communities have contributed to the recent, historic drop in crime across the country.

So, IMHO, you can quit bitching until you're trying to improve the system.

She does point out several other examples of racial prejudice, but nowhere does she point out possible solutions. I can empathize to a degree that being black isn't always easy. It must get old to have people, especially non-blacks, thinking the worst of you until proven differently.

But nobody said life was fair.....

[newtothegame]

The other side..........who knows what's true

http://www.snopes.com/philando-castile-was-not-wanted-for-armed-robbery/

Ralph, I always completely respect your opinions...However, the "snopes" you linked to does more to try to discredit the story then tell the truth in my opinion. And, for fairness, the story I linked attempts to make a case for the officer.

But here is what we do know to be factual.......
Ms Diamond claims they were pulled over for a broken tail light.....That was a blatant lie. At no time anywhere did I hear in the video or see the officer say anything about a tail light.

Was there a gun, as my story linked reports to show and snopes attempts to discredit? I think its sketchy from the video at best. But, we do know factually that ms diamond herself says several times that he has a permit. Why would anyone claim to have a permit if there was no gun present? The officers lawyer even says a gun was present and at some point seen or flashed. Therefore, its obvious there was a gun present!

As to the Newport cigarettes later shown in another video of ms diamond, that's just circumstantial and had no bearing on what the officer would of known or perceived. However, it does add to the narrative of the story I linked.

I also find it EXTREMELY ODD the ladies reaction from her own video. Her BF has just been shot, bleeding profusely, and she seems as calm as the other side of the pillow....all the while recording. She continues all the way till she is removed from the vehicle and placed on her knees. She continues to speak to facebook after dropping her phone.....
How many people could experience that and act or do as she is doing? Drugs involved to create this "calmness"??? who the hell knows but I doubt seriously I could remain that calm during that incident.

The gofundme accounts again are rather unusual in my opinion so quickly. Then to have THREE separate accounts??? Seems to me several people were looking to cash in on this incident.

As to what is the "truth", it will all eventiually come out. As previously mentioned, I am seriously leaning towards the officers side after seeing the story I posted. Ms Diamonds version has already been discredited due to the initial lie of a tail light. Her actions during the incident call a lot into question in my mind. The BOLO completely changes the narrative and only adds more credibility to the officers actions and reasoning for the stop.
Just one persons opinions though......

Again, thanks for all of your insights into these matters involving police. They are greatly appreciated.

[Tom]

Come guys, we don't need no steenking facts.
The Obama DOJ and Federal Bureau of Incompetence have lowered the bar.
We no longer need evidence, testimony, juries........they tried that in Ferguson.....found out facts and reality don't always help thier racist agendas.

From now on, The Grand Mufti need only declare guilt any white man or cop, or innocence, Hillary.

The dead cops across the nation are OBama's legacy - one HE is i extremely PROUD of.

[Fager Fan]

Does no one consider the "broken tail light" reason the officer could've given was true? You don't pull over a robbery suspect and then walk up to him and tell him he was pulled over because he's a robbery suspect. You tell them it's for some benign reason that doesn't get them as jittery hopefully.

That video could well help the officer. It starts right as the officer is distraughtly yelling that he told him not to move.

The girlfriend's reaction could also hurt her credibility. No tears, and thinking of doing a selfie video instead of helping her boyfriend.

[Clocker]

Ralph, I always completely respect your opinions...However, the "snopes" you linked to does more to try to discredit the story then tell the truth in my opinion. And, for fairness, the story I linked attempts to make a case for the officer.

Just my opinion, but neither the story you linked to nor the Snopes rebuttal pass the smell test. The Snopes story reads like a hatchet job and the other story has big holes in it.

For starters, I can't believe that the Ramsey County Sheriff's office is giving out information about permits to anyone who asks. Not that it matters, because the claim is that he got a permit when he lived in Robbinsdale, which is not in Ramsey County. In Minnesota, as in many states, a permit is issued by the Sheriff of your county of residence.

Also, whatever that guy has on his thigh in the picture is unidentifiable. But in a media story elsewhere, it says that state investigators recovered a gun at the scene. And the cop's lawyer says that the cop shot because the guy 'displayed' a gun. That there was a gun somewhere in the car appears to be a fact. Everything else is speculation at this point.

[davew]

Does no one consider the "broken tail light" reason the officer could've given was true? You don't pull over a robbery suspect and then walk up to him and tell him he was pulled over because he's a robbery suspect. You tell them it's for some benign reason that doesn't get them as jittery hopefully.

That video could well help the officer. It starts right as the officer is distraughtly yelling that he told him not to move.

The girlfriend's reaction could also hurt her credibility. No tears, and thinking of doing a selfie video instead of helping her boyfriend.


Does anyone consider the 'broken taillight' is a line of shit by a woman who was trying to get money?

[Fager Fan]

Does anyone consider the 'broken taillight' is a line of shit by a woman who was trying to get money?

Everyone has done just that, which is why I posted. I'd put it at 1-9 that "broken taillight" is very often told to people pulled over where the cop doesn't want to state the real reason.

[JustRalph]

Does anyone consider the 'broken taillight' is a line of shit by a woman who was trying to get money?

They have already received a bunch of money. 3 different family members have setup funds. Over 300k has poured into the family already.

And then there is this one

http://pix11.com/2016/07/07/gofundme-page-for-alton-sterling-raises-more-than-400k-in-24-hours/

https://www.gofundme.com/2d3eze7g

670k for Sterlings family. I'm sure he's the richest sex offender in LA

[Marshall Bennett]

The girlfriend's reaction could also hurt her credibility. No tears, and thinking of doing a selfie video instead of helping her boyfriend.
Maybe she didn't even really like him. :cool:

[Clocker]

They have already received a bunch of money. 3 different family members have setup funds. Over 300k has poured into the family already.

#BLM is asking for more money for bail as over 100 protesters were arrested in St. Paul last night, many of them shutting down I-94, the main interstate through the Twin Cities. At last count, 21 cops were hurt by rocks and other debris thrown by the rioters, oops, I mean 'protesters'. I saw no reports of any injuries to the mob.

http://www.startribune.com/about-100-arrested-in-st-paul-protests/386197981/

[Tom]

The animals are where hey belong - in the zoo.

What do we want

ROAD KILL

What do we want it

NOW!!!

Break out the fire hoses...there is garbage in the streets.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Maybe she didn't even really like him. :cool:

I think that's pretty obvious - she's extremely self-absorbed to get that streaming video out, along with her 15 minutes of fame.

To see the money pouring in to the Go-Fund-Me accounts is obscene.

[Fager Fan]

I think that's pretty obvious - she's extremely self-absorbed to get that streaming video out, along with her 15 minutes of fame.

To see the money pouring in to the Go-Fund-Me accounts is obscene.

The day is coming where someone gets sued for fraud when the money doesn't go where it was said in these Go Fund Me things.

Anyone REALLY think the money is put into trust for the future college tuition of the kids as stated (in one of these)?

[highnote]

I think that's pretty obvious - she's extremely self-absorbed to get that streaming video out, along with her 15 minutes of fame.

To see the money pouring in to the Go-Fund-Me accounts is obscene.

I can understand how you could view the money pouring into the go-fund-me account as obscene -- especially, if you think she is lying.

However, a lot of people see this from the woman's point of view and assume she is telling the truth.

The cop is innocent until proven guilty, the woman is telling the truth until proven she was lying, and the man who was killed is innocent until proven guilty.

So for those reasons I do not view the money pouring into the go-fund-me accounts as obscene. I view the act of people contributing money as a good intention. As far as money is concerned, money is neither obscene or divine. Money is neutral.

Now, if it turns out the woman was lying just to make money then that is a different story and people would be right to be disturbed by her behavior. But until then, I'm going to withhold judgment until I see how it plays out.

[Marshall Bennett]

She was interviewed on GMA this morning and seemed to enjoy herself enough being there. I didn't watch all of it, but saw no tears in the part I did.
I suppose all of us deal with personal tragedy differently. This woman presents herself since the beginning as if her boyfriends are gunned down routinely.

[highnote]

This woman presents herself since the beginning as if her boyfriends are gunned down routinely.

Personally, I will follow Jesus' advice on this one and not pass judgment.

Some people ask that their friends and loved ones laugh and have a good time after their funeral. Some people think you should mourn for a year after the death of a loved one. Who am I to say which is appropriate?

Who am I, a white male, to say how a black woman should act after her boyfriend is killed by gunshots while sitting next to her in a car?

If you're not a black woman or if you don't know her personally, then how do you know what this woman has been through in her life?

Respectfully, I'm curious to know where your beliefs come from about how others should act in the face of tragedy.

[Parkview_Pirate]

I can understand how you could view the money pouring into the go-fund-me account as obscene -- especially, if you think she is lying.

However, a lot of people see this from the woman's point of view and assume she is telling the truth.

The cop is innocent until proven guilty, the woman is telling the truth until proven she was lying, and the man who was killed is innocent until proven guilty.

So for those reasons I do not view the money pouring into the go-fund-me accounts as obscene. I view the act of people contributing money as a good intention. As far as money is concerned, money is neither obscene or divine. Money is neutral.

Now, if it turns out the woman was lying just to make money then that is a different story and people would be right to be disturbed by her behavior. But until then, I'm going to withhold judgment until I see how it plays out.

I'm of the opinion she's lying. Sure, it's a bit premature to draw that conclusion, but short of new evidence coming into consideration, it's going to be a "he said, she said" issue. Her initial reaction makes more sense if you consider the $$$ in the mix. She immediately contradicts the officer and continues arguing, versus getting medical attention to her boyfriend ASAP.

From what we know at this point, it certainly seems that the police officer could have done something different to avoid the gunfire. This may speak volumes to the level or training our current police departments are getting....

As more of the facts come out, I'd like to be proven wrong that this gal is not so callous - but something tells me I won't be.....

[highnote]

I'm of the opinion she's lying. Sure, it's a bit premature to draw that conclusion, but short of new evidence coming into consideration, it's going to be a "he said, she said" issue. Her initial reaction makes more sense if you consider the $$$ in the mix. She immediately contradicts the officer and continues arguing, versus getting medical attention to her boyfriend ASAP.

From what we know at this point, it certainly seems that the police officer could have done something different to avoid the gunfire. This may speak volumes to the level or training our current police departments are getting....

As more of the facts come out, I'd like to be proven wrong that this gal is not so callous - but something tells me I won't be.....


Your view is valid. All of the facts are not known, but our brains are wired to find an answer to any question we ask it -- even if the answer is wrong, our brain will give us an answer. (I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying how the brain is programmed.)

Everyone has different "meta-programs", (i.e., brain-wiring that is like software that controls how we see the world).

For example, someone lays a penny, a nickel, and a dime on a table and asks you what is the relationship between those objects. The first thing you might say is that they are all the same -- they are money. The first thing someone else might say is that they are all the same -- they are round. Someone else might say they are all different -- different sizes or different denominations, etc.

Some people see sameness and other people see differences. This is the way a person tries to understand the world. The manner in which a person goes about trying to understand something depends on how their brain is wired.

So what is the truth about the coins? Is there more than one truth?

This explains why people have different points of views about complex scenarios.

Consider that people were raised by parents with certain views and in communities with certain prevailing beliefs -- religious communities, school communities, job communities.

People learn to make sense of the world through the meta-programs that have been installed in their brains at conception and then tweaked by the environments they live in. There are some hard-wired aspects of the brain that don't change, and once you are aware of how your brain is wired, you can then adjust your thinking to counter-balance your biases.

Unfortunately, the software in your brain doesn't come with a user manual. Some people never learn how to operate it! :D

[Fager Fan]

Personally, I will follow Jesus' advice on this one and not pass judgment.

Some people ask that their friends and loved ones laugh and have a good time after their funeral. Some people think you should mourn for a year after the death of a loved one. Who am I to say which is appropriate?

Who am I, a white male, to say how a black woman should act after her boyfriend is killed by gunshots while sitting next to her in a car?

If you're not a black woman or if you don't know her personally, then how do you know what this woman has been through in her life?

Respectfully, I'm curious to know where your beliefs come from about how others should act in the face of tragedy.

I don't need to be a black woman to know what a normal reaction should be to thinking someone you care about was shot and may be dying.

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? You seem to be the polar opposite. You don't acceot facts as they present themselves but imagine all sorts of scenarios outside of those facts.

[highnote]

I don't need to be a black woman to know what a normal reaction should be to thinking someone you care about was shot and may be dying.

Why should your notion of what a "normal reaction" should be apply to every one? That is a biased view if I've ever heard one. :D

Are you married? Your wife must love it when you tell her how she is supposed to feel! :lol:

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? You seem to be the polar opposite. You don't acceot facts as they present themselves but imagine all sorts of scenarios outside of those facts.

The shooting of the driver by a cop in Minnesota is kind of like a poker hand in that all the cards have not been seen, only partial information is available, and a lot of emotion is involved.

In poker, you would be forced to make a decision in a reasonable amount of time. In the case of the shooting, I don't have to make a decision. I can sit back and wait for more information and there is no penalty for doing so. Or you can jump to conclusions based on limited information and there is also no penalty. We all try to understand the world using different methods because we are all wired differently.

When I saw the opening minute of the video for the first time my initial reaction was "What the hell is this lady doing? Why isn't she concerned about her boyfriend?"

But think about it from a black woman's perspective. The black community is very sensitive about police misconduct towards the black community. So she may have thought this scenario through hundreds of times in "thought experiments". So when tragedy struck, she had already programmed herself how to react -- turn on the camera and start recording. Maybe her actions were a defense mechanism -- a way to avoid facing the awful tragedy unfolding in front of her? Who the hell knows at this point?

On the other side of the coin, it's fair to ask why did the cop not come to the aid of the man he just shot, when it was clear from the video that the man was dying, and appeared to be in shock, and did not appear to be a threat.

However, we only see the incident from the viewpoint of the cell phone camera. We do not see the incident from the cop's perspective. His actions may have been perfectly justifiable.

I try to see it from all angles and not rush to judgment, but I can only imagine what it was like from the cop's perspective. I can see a lot from the woman's perspective, but there is a lot of missing information that happened before she started recording.

I'm interested in knowing the truth. You get to the truth by asking questions and then finding the correct answers.

Hopefully, when the investigators assemble all the facts a clearer picture will emerge.

[Fager Fan]

Why should your notion of what a "normal reaction" should be apply to every one? That is a biased view if I've ever heard one. :D

Are you married? Your wife must love it when you tell her how she is supposed to feel! :lol:



The shooting of the driver by a cop in Minnesota is kind of like a poker hand in that all the cards have not been seen, only partial information is available, and a lot of emotion is involved.

In poker, you would be forced to make a decision in a reasonable amount of time. In the case of the shooting, I don't have to make a decision. I can sit back and wait for more information and there is no penalty for doing so. Or you can jump to conclusions based on limited information and there is also no penalty. We all try to understand the world using different methods because we are all wired differently.

When I saw the opening minute of the video for the first time my initial reaction was "What the hell is this lady doing? Why isn't she concerned about her boyfriend?"

But think about it from a black woman's perspective. The black community is very sensitive about police misconduct towards the black community. So she may have thought this scenario through hundreds of times in "thought experiments". So when tragedy struck, she had already programmed herself how to react -- turn on the camera and start recording. Maybe her actions were a defense mechanism -- a way to avoid facing the awful tragedy unfolding in front of her? Who the hell knows at this point?

On the other side of the coin, it's fair to ask why did the cop not come to the aid of the man he just shot, when it was clear from the video that the man was dying, and appeared to be in shock, and did not appear to be a threat.

However, we only see the incident from the viewpoint of the cell phone camera. We do not see the incident from the cop's perspective. His actions may have been perfectly justifiable.

I try to see it from all angles and not rush to judgment, but I can only imagine what it was like from the cop's perspective. I can see a lot from the woman's perspective, but there is a lot of missing information that happened before she started recording.

I'm interested in knowing the truth. You get to the truth by asking questions and then finding the correct answers.

Hopefully, when the investigators assemble all the facts a clearer picture will emerge.

This is what I'm talking about. You go off into some other realm. And a really long-winded one at that.

Again, she has a very abnormal and uncaring reaction to her boyfriend being shot and possibly dying or dead.

[highnote]

Again, she has a very abnormal and uncaring reaction to her boyfriend being shot and possibly dying or dead.

In her mind and in the mind of other people her reactions might seem perfectly normal and logical given her life experiences and culture.

Do you really think all people should react to stress in the same way you do, and if they don't they are abnormal?

Here is an example of why you are wrong:

I did a series of videos for the New York City Police Department. The instructional videos were to teach officers how to interact with members of minority communities during stressful events. For example, when dealing with new immigrants from Haiti, police officers have to be aware that these Haitian's have a tendency to talk loud, yell, and wave their arms in stressful and emotional situations. This behavior seemed threatening to some cops who were not familiar with the Haitian culture. Researchers found that oftentimes conflicts between Haitians and NYC cops arose because the cops did not understand the mannerisms and culture of the Haitians. In stressful and emotionally situations, the cops thought the Haitians were out of control and potentially dangerous, when in fact, the Haitians were just acting in a way that was normal for them in their culture. Once the cops understood this, they were able to remain calm and wait for the Haitian they were dealing with to calm down.

It is wrong to assume that everyone should react to stressful situations the way that you think is normal because people could be found guilty who are not actually guilty.

[Marshall Bennett]

Respectfully, I'm curious to know where your beliefs come from about how others should act in the face of tragedy.
It's not for me to judge how people should act in these cases. If you read my post I said people react differently. People are here with opinions of her behavior in the face of what would be tragedy to most having been next to a loved one shot dead. You're being critical of those opinions. What do you know that others here don't, and why is your opinion in this case the proper one?

[newtothegame]

Well Diamonds mom has a few words about how her daughter is.....

http://dennismichaellynch.com/breaking-woman-who-filmed-cop-killing-claims-shes-pregnant-but-uses-weed-cigarettes-and-alcohol-afterwards/

[highnote]

What do you know that others here don't, and why is your opinion in this case the proper one?

The list of things that I know that others don't is a long one, and vice-versa... the list of things others know that I don't. :D

I don't know if my opinions are "the" proper ones, but they seem reasonable. Feel free to disagree. Some of my beliefs are just opinions -- like a table with 3 legs-- not particularly sturdy.

On the other hand, "beliefs" are like tables with 4 legs -- a lot stronger. And "convictions" are like a table made from a solid block of granite -- you can't even move it.

Boxcar has a lot of convictions about religion, for example. It's interesting to debate with him once in a while and always interesting to hear his convictions, but because his convictions are so strong, anyone who debates with him is unlikely to change them.

So I like to ask questions about peoples' opinions, beliefs and convictions. If people can express a strong enough reason about why they believe what they believe then perhaps I will be persuaded to change my opinions, beliefs and convictions.

One more point... whatever a person believes is true to that person. It may not be true to all others, but it is true to them. So it is important to have beliefs that are useful.

The guy that killed 5 Dallas police officers had a certain set of beliefs. His beliefs were so strong that he was willing to kill and be killed. It is highly unlikely that most people share the same set of beliefs.

The cop that shot the driver of the car had a certain set of general beliefs and beliefs about the driver which caused him to pull the trigger.

The girlfriend in the car had a set of beliefs that caused her to start recording the shooting scene.

Terrorists have a set of beliefs that are perhaps even beyond convictions -- they are fanatical beliefs. They are also willing to kill and be killed.

It all starts with opinions of what we believe to be true and grow stronger from there.

So it's important to understand your own beliefs as well as those of others.

Another long-winded post brought to you by highnote. :D

[JustRalph]

Not guilty

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/us/philando-castile-trial-verdict/index.html

[davew]

She was interviewed on GMA this morning and seemed to enjoy herself enough being there. I didn't watch all of it, but saw no tears in the part I did.
I suppose all of us deal with personal tragedy differently. This woman presents herself since the beginning as if her boyfriends are gunned down routinely.

Diamond probably feeling better now as she is getting over $800K for their 'emotional distress'. They should live well for at least a couple years.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/philando-castiles-girlfriend-receive-800-000-settlement-emotional-111749081--abc-news-topstories.html