The Libertarian Party

[barn32]

I watched Gary Johnson (former Gov of New Mexico) and Bill Weld (former governor of Massachusetts) on CNN a couple of weeks ago and they seemed like two reasonable guys to me.

They are currently polling at 11%, and if they manage to get up to 15% they will earn a place in the debates.

Wait and see I guess.

[Tom]

They would probably kill the bananacrat and banana republican candidates.

[JustRalph]

They will decide the election unless Trump wins in a landslide.

If it's close, they cost Trump the election

[johnhannibalsmith]

They will decide the election unless Trump wins in a landslide.

If it's close, they cost Trump the election

Except that the last poll showed that the one on one matchups that give hillary the advantage by a handful or so points all but vanish to one point when you include Johnson and Stein in the poll.

Edited to include the poll again.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

They are currently polling at 11%, and if they manage to get up to 15% they will earn a place in the debates.

...

My prediction is that we'll see the greatest show of bi-partisan GOP/DEM cooperation in a century if they get to 13%.

[barahona44]

The support of Johnson are protest votes for people who can't bring themselves to vote for Trump and the support for Stein are protest votes for those who can't bring themselves to vote for Clinton.

I think you'll see these current levels of support will be the high point for both candidates.I expect Stein to fall off more than Johnson.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The support of Johnson are protest votes for people who can't bring themselves to vote for Trump...

Over a million voters took the plunge last election for the guy. People are not necessarily merely protesting with support for him. Or her. People are wising up to the preposterous nature of what our two-party system has become and many more, including myself, actually think Johnson is by far the closest thing to what the Executive should represent.

[Racetrack Playa]

A Gary Johnson interview clip from The Joe Rogan podcast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-EA8LEM5pM


JHS smart posts Sir, as usual :ThmbUp:

[barahona44]

Over a million voters took the plunge last election for the guy. People are not necessarily merely protesting with support for him. Or her. People are wising up to the preposterous nature of what our two-party system has become and many more, including myself, actually think Johnson is by far the closest thing to what the Executive should represent.
1.2 million votes represented 1% of the 2012 vote, current polling would indicate Johnson getting 10 million in November.I'm basing my Trump supposition on the fact that most of the handful of self described Libertarians I know or have read about were conservative/moderate Republicans in another life. There may be danger in that kind of assumption .However,10 million voters don't come out of nowhere.

[johnhannibalsmith]

1.2 million votes represented 1% of the 2012 vote, current polling would indicate Johnson getting 10 million in November.I'm basing my Trump supposition on the fact that most of the handful of self described Libertarians I know or have read about were conservative/moderate Republicans in another life. There may be danger in that kind of assumption .However,10 million voters don't come out of nowhere.

I'm not arguing the merit of your statement as a component of what drives it. But those 10 million aren't just protesting Trump or even Hillary, they are protesting getting railroaded yet again by candidates that they supported by following the rulebook and supporting someone they don't even like but deem 'less evil'. Or protesting a system that they have dutifully played their role as useful idiot for one time too many.

When you think about how Bernie, a friggin' independent socialist, could be a very real threat to the de facto leader of the Democratic party - a 1-9 shot with 99% of the show pool - it's people just not quite ready to cross the line completely but they have just plain had enough. Trump gets the nomination because Republicans have just plain had enough of the same old shit, but they haven't crossed that line yet.

So while it can be argued that the sentiment falls under the umbrella of 'protest vote' - I think it is more than that. Protest vote, to me anyway, suggests someone that is truly a Republican or Democrat but simply refuses to support the candidate this year.

I think you are seeing people that are going beyond that and simply looking past what they've been indoctrinated to believe is their only choice. To see that it can be a different way of empowering the people to select representatives. That if you truly do 'hate the system' as we hear so often and that you truly are worried about 'future generations and my kids and grandkids' as we hear so often - that eventually you have to give up this notion that voting for the lesser of two evils as protocol and then bitching about it and start the ball rolling. That maybe by the time those future generations you are so worried about are old enough to vote, your 'wasted vote' has enabled them to not worry about which evil they like least and perhaps even vote for someone they support and can be proud of their vote again.

[Clocker]

eventually you have to give up this notion that voting for the lesser of two evils as protocol and then bitching about it and start the ball rolling. That maybe by the time those future generations you are so worried about are old enough to vote, your 'wasted vote' has enabled them to not worry about which evil they like least and perhaps even vote for someone they support and can be proud of their vote again.

One writer said that the 'lesser of two evils' scenario is like being offered your choice of bread for your crap sandwich.

I'll just have a salad, thanks anyway.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

My prediction is that we'll see the greatest show of bi-partisan GOP/DEM cooperation in a century if they get to 13%.

You are already seeing it. The Republican establishment wants Trump to lose as much as the Democratic establishment.

The republ-o-crats do not want a President who cannot be bought out by special interests.

[MutuelClerk]

Also Ran.

Sadly.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I've always liked Gary Johnson. He's a real libertarian (e.g., he lobbied to decriminalize marijuana long before it became a popular thing for states to do. One of the most surreal scenes I remember was Gary Johnson as a featured speaker at a NORML - National Association for the Reform of Marijuana Laws - and getting serious applause. I remember thinking this may be the only issue he has in common with the people in the audience but they still loved him.)

Five things I know about Gary Johnson from personal experience.

- He's genuinely a smart person, and for that matter very genuine.

- He has a wry sense of humor.

- He is an excellent athlete and he'll work hard to accomplish something. He was not a very good swimmer, but he worked hard at getting better and he did a number of ironman triathlons.

- He's something of a thrill seeker. He decided to climb Mount Everest, took a year to train and did it. Right before the SLC Winter Olympics were were in Park City at the training center for ski jumping. They were doing an exhibition where the jumpers were going down the run, doing flips and landing in a swimming pool (it was summer). Next thing you know Johnson talks someone into lending him skis and a suit and he's flying down the slide.

- He's competitive and he loves to bet. Once when we were in Coeur d'Alane there was a mini-triathlon scheduled and he bet that he could do the full event and beat any team where there were three people each doing only one of the events (swimming, biking, running). He missed winning by about 30 seconds.

Whether or not you like his positions on different things, he's a straight shooter and a really likeable guy. And I'll bet he'd be a friend to horseplayers.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
- He has a wry sense of humor.

...

I still get a laugh out of him on that set of that informal tv debate on the couch when his rival starts talking about marijuana leading to heart disease and he...

...oh hell, I'll just go find it so we can all enjoy it again...

fjisw2f-vUk


okay and this one while I'm already here that readers here might actually remember:

sZY-MZROgc4

[forced89]

I am committed to voting for Gary Johnson. Why? He is more qualified than Donald and more honest than Hillary.

[MutuelClerk]

Pretty good stuff...:)

[JustRalph]

I am committed to voting for Gary Johnson. Why? He is more qualified than Donald and more honest than Hillary.

Just stay home, it will have the same result.

[Parkview_Pirate]

http://www.redstate.com/diary/southernconstitutionalist/2016/05/28/gary-johnson-and-william-weld-are-fake-libertarians-miseducating-the-public/

Like Democrats, Johnson is in favor of legalizing only marijuana. Libertarians are in favor of all drugs being legal. Like Democrats, he is in favor of government-sponsored gay marriage. Libertarians oppose government involvement in marriage. Like Democrats, he believes that businesses must cater (literally-he believes Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes) to anyone and everyone. Libertarians believe in freedom of association and freedom of conscience/religion. Like Democrats, he supports funding for Planned Parenthood. Libertarians oppose government subsidization of private organizations. Like Democrats, Johnson is in favor of some gun control. Libertarians oppose restrictions on gun ownership.

On the fiscal front, as governor of New Mexico he increased the state's budget well ahead of growth and inflation, as well as leaving behind a debt three times larger than when he was sworn into office.

There's also some questions about his campaign finance issues from 2012 - potentially being criminal in nature.

http://knappster.blogspot.com/2016/03/gary-johnson-2012-inc-mere-financial.html

In short, the guy's anything but a straight shooter....

[HalvOnHorseracing]

This site has a more complete view of Johnson's positions. For example, he supports gay unions but thinks government should stay out of the marriage business. I'm not a libertarian expert, but his policies look libertarian to me for the most part. Frankly, a test where a candidate has to toe the party line 100% of the time would reveal a candidate with little interest in thinking through issues. Talk to him sometime and then decide if he is a straight shooter.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johnson.htm

[johnhannibalsmith]

Just stay home, it will have the same result.

Maybe on this election, but if you are one of those "screw them all vote for Trump" because he isn't an establishment lackey, well voting for Johnson now at least gives you a fighting chance of having something other than establishment R and D to fight over for the rest of eternity.

[Rise Over Run]

I am committed to voting for Gary Johnson. Why? He is more qualified than Donald and more honest than Hillary.

Bingo. I can't vote for either of the two major party ass-clowns. As soon as this election cycle is over I'm changing party affiliation from Republican to Libertarian.

[classhandicapper]

http://www.redstate.com/diary/southernconstitutionalist/2016/05/28/gary-johnson-and-william-weld-are-fake-libertarians-miseducating-the-public/



On the fiscal front, as governor of New Mexico he increased the state's budget well ahead of growth and inflation, as well as leaving behind a debt three times larger than when he was sworn into office.

There's also some questions about his campaign finance issues from 2012 - potentially being criminal in nature.

http://knappster.blogspot.com/2016/03/gary-johnson-2012-inc-mere-financial.html

In short, the guy's anything but a straight shooter....

I'm glad you posted that. I haven't had much time to research or listen to what he's got to say, but I'm not particularly comfortable with Trump and I won't vote for Hillary unless I'm the subject of a diabolical mind control experiment that I'm unaware of. ;)

[classhandicapper]

Bingo. I can't vote for either of the two major party ass-clowns. As soon as this election cycle is over I'm changing party affiliation from Republican to Libertarian.

I consider myself libertarian and usually vote that way (other than for mayor of NYC where I typically vote republican because the democrats are so bad I can't take it), but I retain my republican registration so I can vote in the primaries. Occasionally, the republicans put up someone good. He never wins, but at least I can vote for him/her in the primaries.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Until 2004, I always voted Libertarian. But after 9/11, I realized how dangerous the Democrats are and have been voting Republican on most elections.

What you have to love about Trump is that the Republicans hate him as much as the Democrats do. It is the people who voted for him in record numbers in the primaries. Screw the GOP establishment.

[_______]

I voted for Roger MacBride in my first presidential election.

So this will be full circle for me.

[Parkview_Pirate]

This site has a more complete view of Johnson's positions. For example, he supports gay unions but thinks government should stay out of the marriage business. I'm not a libertarian expert, but his policies look libertarian to me for the most part. Frankly, a test where a candidate has to toe the party line 100% of the time would reveal a candidate with little interest in thinking through issues. Talk to him sometime and then decide if he is a straight shooter.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johnson.htm

I'll agree that a candidate doesn't have to personally be in favor of all of a party's platform, but in the case of libertarians fiscal responsibility is front and center. And rather than listen to what Mr. Johnson has to say, more insight is gleaned from what he has done. And his record as governor of New Mexico and his inability to manage his own campaign finances properly obviously, IMHO, do not pass the litmus test.

I have not spoken with any of the candidates personally, but do know a couple of hard core Libertarians who do not hold Johnson in a very favorable light. As a career politician, I'm suspicious of him as well. I voted Libertarian for President back in 2008 (Barr and Root), but don't plan to this year - the very high stakes will not have me wasting my vote when The Hag has a chance to lose (slim, though it may be).

[johnhannibalsmith]

The problem with hardcore libertarians is that it really is too much to be even remotely mainstream. It's a nice idea, and I generally agree with it, but it just doesn't play with the population at large. Libertarians need to have a pragmatist that can soften stances that are a hard sell (a la decriminalization of all drugs, total non-interventionism, bazookas for everyone, etc.).

I've watched almost every third party debate I can remember being available and there are some real characters that run under the banner of true libertarian. Hardcore libertarians obviously see Johnson as a Libertarian Lite, but everyone else on the D/R spectrum sees him as pretty radical. That's how outside the mainstream most of the hardcore guys are. I mean, this year you had Austin Peterson sounding like he was doing his impression of Thomas Jefferson in a Broadway rendition of 1776 or something and John McAfee doing his impression of, well, a semi-lucid John McAfee.

And those were two of the more polished participants.

Johnson is a long way from the perfect candidate, but he is, in my opinion, light years better than the alternatives. And he is light years better than the other Libertarian candidates at doing what needs to be done now for the party and disaffected voters - giving them a reasonable alternative to a status-quo that everyone claims to be fed up with and a blending of principles that mirrors a lot of what the vocal minority claims to seek without being at the far end of the Libertarian spectrum.