Alton Sterling

[cj]

I'm not going to post the video because I'm physically ill having watched it, but you can find it easily if you want to find it. Sure looks like a cop murdered this man in Baton Rouge.

[EMD4ME]

The man was on the ground and it looked like his hands were behind his back.

How in the world do you justify shooting him to death in that situation?

Unless there is more to the video, that was sickening.

[PhantomOnTour]

I haven't seen the video and I don't intend to...not in my nature to watch that kind of thing.
This is getting a lot of press locally, and rightfully so by all accounts I've read.

[ElKabong]

Death penalty is in order here. Lot of spin to come from bad cop apologists, but this was disgusting. No good cop would defend that kind of cowardice. Not sure it's a racist act (I saw more racism in southern LA than I saw anywhere I've been) but it was cowardly and deserves the death penalty.

(Side note... The time I spent in southern Louisiana I experienced and saw more racism than I imagined existed, yet I saw more than intermingling between blacks and whites than I saw anywhere else... Odd combo, everyone is uniquely different...Very raw environment. Best of humanity , and the worst of humanity.

[cj]

I haven't seen the video and I don't intend to...not in my nature to watch that kind of thing.
This is getting a lot of press locally, and rightfully so by all accounts I've read.

I didn't realize what it was until it was too late. It takes a lot for me to post in off topics, but this was upsetting.

[Robert Fischer]

The police didn't appear to be properly trained for the situation.

When one of the officers called out that he had a gun (in his pocket), the homicidal officer seemed to improperly respond to that verbal cue as if the restrained man and the police were somehow in a standoff situation, drawing his firearm and shooting multiple kill shots at first movement.

no body cameras because they allegedly fell off the officers during the altercation, just cell phone footage from a person on the street.

Apparently the initial statements from the police covered up the crime.

[EMD4ME]

The police didn't appear to be properly trained for the situation.

When one of the officers called out that he had a gun (in his pocket), the homicidal officer seemed to improperly respond to that verbal cue as if the restrained man and the police were somehow in a standoff situation, drawing his firearm and shooting multiple kill shots at first movement.

no body cameras because they allegedly fell off the officers during the altercation, just cell phone footage from a person on the street.

Apparently the initial statements from the police covered up the crime.

He should get training for the next 50 years, in jail. That'll teach him.

[johnhannibalsmith]

It sure seems like cell phones make a hell of fertilizer for bad apple trees.

[Inner Dirt]

Didn't watch, obviously from reports the cops used unwarranted force. On the other hand I will venture a guess the guy didn't have this negative run in with police because he was singing too loud in church. In all these police killings that draw the ire of "Black lives Matter" no one states the obvious that if you stop committing crimes the chances of a negative interaction with police go way down. In my 55 years on Earth, and I am not fond of cops, I have notice one thing. Cops pretty much treat you how you treat them, if you are calm and respectful that is what you get back, you get nasty they return the favor.

[jk3521]

Always be polite to a police officer. Rule #1.

[MutuelClerk]

I watched the video, the one I saw wasn't great. I saw a large black man in a red shirt being told by the police to get on the ground. It looked like he may have refused and was taken to the ground laying on his stomach. I think the cops were trying to handcuff him, it looked like his hands were behind his back. Then you hear GUN GUN ( which he couldn't reach) and he was shot dead.

While respecting cops, probably like most people I don't really like them either. Video may have killed the radio star. It's also bringing justice to situations like this one. Sometimes the cops seem to do the right thing but often they don't. The cameras don't lie. Cops do. Witnesses do on both sides. I'm not sure what started this situation. Haven't read anything about it. But I don't believe the cops lives were in danger.

Seeing the mans son break down was heart wrenching at the press conference.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

According to people at the family press conference, the body cams worn by police officers came off in the struggle to subdue the man but there is a surveillance video from a nearby store that has been taken by the police. The only video available to the public is a cell phone video that doesn't capture all the events leading up to the shooting. The standard always seems to come down to whether the officer felt he was in mortal danger, but based on the short cell phone video it is difficult to determine if his life was in immediate danger. In fact, the suspect looked as if he was still struggling but was prone and cuffed, certainly making it unlikely he could get to his gun and effectively use it. At the very least his arms seemed to be fully restrained since you don't see them flailing in the video.

The part I found interesting was one of the other officers yelling "GUN," ostensibly meaning the suspect had a gun in his pocket, but I expect the shooting officer will say he interpreted that as the suspect was in a position to use the gun and he needed to defend himself.

I would think that the video from the body cams should at least be available up to the point they were knocked off, and perhaps the video from the grocery store will be revealing about the events leading up to the shooting, and I hope they are released soon. At first glance, deadly force doesn't seem justified.

[JustRalph]

I watched the video, the one I saw wasn't great. I saw a large black man in a red shirt being told by the police to get on the ground. It looked like he may have refused and was taken to the ground laying on his stomach. I think the cops were trying to handcuff him, it looked like his hands were behind his back. Then you hear GUN GUN ( which he couldn't reach) and he was shot dead.

While respecting cops, probably like most people I don't really like them either. Video may have killed the radio star. It's also bringing justice to situations like this one. Sometimes the cops seem to do the right thing but often they don't. The cameras don't lie. Cops do. Witnesses do on both sides. I'm not sure what started this situation. Haven't read anything about it. But I don't believe the cops lives were in danger.

Seeing the mans son break down was heart wrenching at the press conference.

I can't get the video to play, lots of people watching I bet. But from reports I've read there's no way to defend the officer.

Your comment above......"sometimes?" there are over 250k citizen/police contacts every day in this country. EVERY STINKING DAY! How many go wrong? Work the percentages out and it's pretty damn low.

I'm going to guess the earlier comment will come to fruition about the officer hearing the call out "gun"

[johnhannibalsmith]

I can't get the video to play, ...

Try this. The video is not great and the events are not all that clear, at least visually.

CaAik-EvI3o

[PhantomOnTour]

Death penalty is in order here. Lot of spin to come from bad cop apologists, but this was disgusting. No good cop would defend that kind of cowardice. Not sure it's a racist act (I saw more racism in southern LA than I saw anywhere I've been) but it was cowardly and deserves the death penalty.

(Side note... The time I spent in southern Louisiana I experienced and saw more racism than I imagined existed, yet I saw more than intermingling between blacks and whites than I saw anywhere else... Odd combo, everyone is uniquely different...Very raw environment. Best of humanity , and the worst of humanity.
You offer nothing

[Tom]

Clearly an execution.
Fry the cop.

[JustRalph]

You offer nothing

Except his perspective........

What's wrong with that?

[PhantomOnTour]

Except his perspective........

What's wrong with that?
You don't know the history btw he and I...it's a long story, a UT-LSU thing that he started long ago by talking nasty trash...speaking on behalf of a university he attended but never graduated from (I'll let you draw your own conclusions why)
In other words...his views on Louisiana are a bit slanted to say the least.

[Grits]

I'm not understanding some of the malice towards police officers as a whole. Though, I can't watch the video knowing this man was likely murdered. Racism is alive and well. Sadly. Do I believe there are law enforcement members who are capable of crime? Yes. Do I distrust or dislike law enforcement in general? No, I do not. Experiences I've had with them have been supportive. .... Still, these men and women should know by now, full well, cameras are everywhere.

On a side note: There's a best selling novel written by southern author, Greg Iles (a resident of the city of the book's name), Natchez Burning. I finished it a few weeks ago. A novel of historical fiction based on over 6 years of research into the unsolved murders of folks in the deep South during the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Some of these murders involved law enforcement and some of these individuals never served a day behind bars for these killings. I hadn't, in my lifetime, ever heard of an elite group outside of the KKK whose activity was agonizingly violent. It was one of the most difficult books I've ever read...haunting because of its truth.

A link to an interview with the author.
http://www.hannapub.com/concordiasentinel/opinion/stanley-nelson-the-story-behind-natchez-burning

[Marshall Bennett]

Almost wonder if there isn't more hidden by the front of the vehicle going on here unless this cop was losing his mind. This is as much as an execution.
A previous poster mentioned S.Louisiana and racism. I worked for years in and around SE Louisiana. Times have changed maybe, but it wasn't only racism it was anybody that was disrespectful to a law officer. Suspects shot and tossed in nearby bayous. Suspects found dead alongside highways behind wheel of their cars, and scores of open-ended cases where people were found shot dead and never solved.
I don't believe much of this exist there anymore, but I'm sure the emotions linger that trigger it. Imo, one of two things happened here. Either the cop was out of his mind, or the suspect had a gun in his hand. Nothing else makes any sense. Even if it were only 1 or 2 seconds, the cop had ample time between reaching back to his holster pulling out his gun and shooting to say he simply made a terrible mistake.

[Robert Fischer]

Didn't watch, obviously from reports the cops used unwarranted force. On the other hand I will venture a guess the guy didn't have this negative run in with police because he was singing too loud in church. In all these police killings that draw the ire of "Black lives Matter" no one states the obvious that if you stop committing crimes the chances of a negative interaction with police go way down. In my 55 years on Earth, and I am not fond of cops, I have notice one thing. Cops pretty much treat you how you treat them, if you are calm and respectful that is what you get back, you get nasty they return the favor.

You've been lucky.
I think I've dealt with 95% good cops and 5% aggressive neanderthals.
A few bullys, a few instances of targeting, some of which are met with the cop giving the old college try after the target attempt proved to not apply to me(worst that has happened was being handcuffed and pressed into my car for a baffling accusation of driving a 'stolen car', another incident of a pretend seatbelt ticket on a car with automatic seatbelts, another time - some general intimidation and made to do a battery of drunk driving balancing acts in front of the bright police lights after a long day of work).

I've been lucky as well - none of those are too serious.

Like I said 95% have been regular guys just doing their job.

By now, I have kind of adapted my routine with encounters to simple, directly applicable statements, 'local speak' , etc... I think that helps a bit if and when you get dealt a bully.

I do agree that trying to be a tough guy in the face of bully cops, or even regular cops that are under pressure is dumb. Swallow your pride, maybe pay a ticket, maybe go to court... It's not worth your life.

[ElKabong]

A previous poster mentioned S.Louisiana and racism. I worked for years in and around SE Louisiana. Times have changed maybe, but it wasn't only racism it was anybody that was disrespectful to a law officer. Suspects shot and tossed in nearby bayous. Suspects found dead alongside highways behind wheel of their cars, and scores of open-ended cases where people were found shot dead and never solved.
I don't believe much of this exist there anymore, but I'm sure the emotions linger that trigger it. Imo, one of two things happened here. Either the cop was out of his mind, or the suspect had a gun in his hand. Nothing else makes any sense. Even if it were only 1 or 2 seconds, the cop had ample time between reaching back to his holster pulling out his gun and shooting to say he simply made a terrible mistake.

Not sure this murder was race driven. Didn't want or mean to imply that for this particular instance.

From my experience down there , race just played a bigger part in the day to day than anywhere else I'd been. Haven't seen that kind of resentment anywhere else. Ranchwest (poster) and I spoke about this when I was going down there weekly (he was raised a few miles from delta downs). It's just a different place.

[johnhannibalsmith]

There's another video released from about ten feet from the hood of the car, head-on view if you will. Though the view pans away after the first couple of shots, it returns with a clear image of the aftermath. For that reason I am not even going to search for it and post it here. It is much more graphic.

Like the other, it also is not entirely clear (in my opinion) what the victim is doing or not doing, but it is quite a bit less obscure than the previous one. In case those that are eager to have a strong opinion want to get another perspective.

[newtothegame]

As a south Louisiana resident here is my take for what it is worth.
First and foremost, as in most of the country, I would strongly recommend obeying a cops commands!!!

Next, I have seen several videos of this incident. I do NOT believe this was a racist incident where two white cops were looking to kill a black man. In the most recent video Ive seen, you can clearly here one of the officers yell "GUN, GUN". However, here is where it differs from the first video I saw. In the first video, one would think the cop with the ball cop (most prominent in the video) was the shooter as he was the one who drew his weapon and was over the suspect. The second video ive seen shows (at least in my perception) he was NOT the shooter. The shooter was the officer without the ball cap (who was struggling with the victims right arm (under or near the cars bumper). Near the end of the video, you can clearly see the officer (again without the cap) laying on the ground with weapon drawn and pointed at victim. The officer then yells something to the effect of "F^%$, F&%#" twice as if he is in anguish due to the firing of his weapon, all while laying on the ground with weapon still drawn on the victim. To me, it seemed as though the officer was distressed at what just transpired. I doubt seriously this was racially motivated due to that alone. I found it very easy to see the anguish (or at least hear it), in the officers voice.

However, removing race from the incident does not alleviate responsibility. Was the officer in fear for his life? Only he knows the answer to that question. In the beginning of the video, the victim was tazed and didn't go down. This created the need to tackle him in my opinion. There are several reports out there that claim he was tazed and stayed upright.

Next, why did sterling even have a weapon on him? This guy is a convicted felon. Now please don't interpret me saying that because he was a convicted felon that he deserved to die. However, for anyone interested ( as some have said they were heart broken over the families story on television), I would suggest it might not be all you saw.......
Here is the victims list of accomplishments:
9/09/96 aggravated battery
10/31/97 2nd degree battery
1/06/98 simple battery
5/04/00 public intimidation
9/20/00 carnal knowledge of a juvenile
9/04/01 domestic violence
5/24/05 burglary of an inhabited dwelling place
7/11/05 receiving stolen things
9/12/05 burglary of inhabited dwelling place
3/17/06 simple criminal damage to property, simple robbery, simple theft, drug possession, misrepresentation during booking, simple battery, aggravated battery
4/12/06 aggravated battery, simple criminal damage to property, disturbing the peace, unauthorized entry
4/04/08 domestic abuse battery
6/03/09 resisting an officer, drug possession, receiving stolen things, possession of stolen firearm, illegal carrying of a weapon with CDs, sound reproduct without consent
10/12/09 illegal carrying of weapon, marijuana possession
8/13/15 failure to register as a sex offender
4/08/16 failure to register as a sex offender
6/14/16 ecstacy and marijuana possession.

My point is that this guy was no angel. And in saying that, I read that for the last few years (I believe it was five from 09-15 he was in the pen. So its not like he was this loving father who was there all the time as portrayed. Again though, this does not warrant him being killed.
A convicted felon though, should not have a firearm. Had this one simple law been followed, he would be alive today. The officers were originally dispatched (per reports and the 911 call) due to the fact that he brandished his weapon (which was later retrieved by the officers after the shooting), against another person (the caller to 911).

How does a guy, with this kind of history, not be in jail and the key thrown away? I would submit (just as in the Hillary topic) that our legal system is very very flawed. I am no legal analyst but isn't there a three strike rule? Maybe Ralph or others can better help me to understand how this guy wasn't under a jail somewhere versus on a video being killed?

Recently (as in just a few weeks), in a neighboring parish, a detective was killed by a perp during another stop. Struggle ensued and cop gets shot three or so times in the back while laying face down, after the initial shot.
In past two weeks, you manager at a local fast food was brutally murdered (stabbed 8 times) during a robbery at 130 am. She was definitely a big story round these parts.
In last few weeks, several officers and troopers have been fatally wounded and or seriously injured while on traffic stops due to negligent driving and or wreckless vehicle operations.
Louisiana is on edge (especially if your a law officer). I know it comes with the territory but they are still human beings.

Compliance saves lives!!!!

[JustRalph]

Why was he not in jail? Weak judges, weak laws. There are candidates out there right now calling for the closure of prisons.

Btw, those burglary convictions are of an "inhabited dwelling" multiple times. Just a note to ponder from his record.

The only thing I might add, guns will fire while they are in your pocket......if he had his hand in a position to fire the gun? But who knows?

[Inner Dirt]

From early 2011 to early 2012 I was pulled over more times than I could count, moving across the country a little at a time. Never for a traffic violation, all because I was profiled, out of state plates, SUV driving thru drug corridors or in drug neighborhoods (I was following the Garmin) getting cash from ATMs. Only one cop was upfront honest, an Arkansas State Trooper, who looked in and said "Most drug runners don't bring their cat along, have a nice day." I was pulled over for supposedly weaving, making a lane change without signaling, etc,etc, never given a ticket. While the stops were annoying as soon as I saw the sky light up, I rolled down my window as I was pulling over and kept my hands on the steering wheel, till told to do other wise. Strangely I was never shot or even spoken to harshly, once I answered a few questions to their liking I was sent on my way. There honestly should be how to behave when pulled over by police questions on driver's license tests.

[Fager Fan]

I'm not understanding some of the malice towards police officers as a whole. Though, I can't watch the video knowing this man was likely murdered. Racism is alive and well. Sadly. Do I believe there are law enforcement members who are capable of crime? Yes. Do I distrust or dislike law enforcement in general? No, I do not. Experiences I've had with them have been supportive. .... Still, these men and women should know by now, full well, cameras are everywhere.

On a side note: There's a best selling novel written by southern author, Greg Iles (a resident of the city of the book's name), Natchez Burning. I finished it a few weeks ago. A novel of historical fiction based on over 6 years of research into the unsolved murders of folks in the deep South during the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Some of these murders involved law enforcement and some of these individuals never served a day behind bars for these killings. I hadn't, in my lifetime, ever heard of an elite group outside of the KKK whose activity was agonizingly violent. It was one of the most difficult books I've ever read...haunting because of its truth.

A link to an interview with the author.
http://www.hannapub.com/concordiasentinel/opinion/stanley-nelson-the-story-behind-natchez-burning

Whoa with the racism comment. It is not at all fair in discussions about instincts, fears, and actions during confrontations. To chalk it up to "racism" is saying a cop hates blacks so just took the opportunity to kill one.

According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher.

Blacks are also about 6 times higher than whites for all crimes.

I would venture a guess that blacks are far more militant and in your face in dealings with cops than whites and others.

There is a reason why white grandmas aren't shot by cops often, and it has nothing to do with racism.

[Inner Dirt]

Here is the victims list of accomplishments:
9/09/96 aggravated battery
10/31/97 2nd degree battery
1/06/98 simple battery
5/04/00 public intimidation
9/20/00 carnal knowledge of a juvenile
9/04/01 domestic violence
5/24/05 burglary of an inhabited dwelling place
7/11/05 receiving stolen things
9/12/05 burglary of inhabited dwelling place
3/17/06 simple criminal damage to property, simple robbery, simple theft, drug possession, misrepresentation during booking, simple battery, aggravated battery
4/12/06 aggravated battery, simple criminal damage to property, disturbing the peace, unauthorized entry
4/04/08 domestic abuse battery
6/03/09 resisting an officer, drug possession, receiving stolen things, possession of stolen firearm, illegal carrying of a weapon with CDs, sound reproduct without consent
10/12/09 illegal carrying of weapon, marijuana possession
8/13/15 failure to register as a sex offender
4/08/16 failure to register as a sex offender
6/14/16 ecstacy and marijuana possession.


Isn't it comical how the liberal media always portrays the so called victim of police brutality as just your average citizen. I thought his family said he was a gentle family man?

[newtothegame]

Isn't it comical how the liberal media always portrays the so called victim of police brutality as just your average citizen. I thought his family said he was a gentle family man?

Michael Brown (Ferguson Mo, ) was also portrayed by the media as a "gentle Giant". If I recall correctly, wasn't Travon Martin also portrayed as a young beautiful person as well by the media?

[jk3521]

Recently (as in just a few weeks), in a neighboring parish, a detective was killed by a perp during another stop. Struggle ensued and cop gets shot three or so times in the back while laying face down, after the initial shot.
In past two weeks, you manager at a local fast food was brutally murdered (stabbed 8 times) during a robbery at 130 am. She was definitely a big story round these parts.
In last few weeks, several officers and troopers have been fatally wounded and or seriously injured while on traffic stops due to negligent driving and or wreckless vehicle operations.
Louisiana is on edge (especially if your a law officer). I know it comes with the territory but they are still human beings.

An explanation why the officer may have overreacted. Three cases in such a short period of time. It's scary out there.

[delayjf]

Almost wonder if there isn't more hidden by the front of the vehicle going on here unless this cop was losing his mind. This is as much as an execution.
A previous poster mentioned S.Louisiana and racism. I worked for years in and around SE Louisiana. Times have changed maybe, but it wasn't only racism it was anybody that was disrespectful to a law officer. Suspects shot and tossed in nearby bayous. Suspects found dead alongside highways behind wheel of their cars, and scores of open-ended cases where people were found shot dead and never solved.
I don't believe much of this exist there anymore, but I'm sure the emotions linger that trigger it. Imo, one of two things happened here. Either the cop was out of his mind, or the suspect had a gun in his hand. Nothing else makes any sense. Even if it were only 1 or 2 seconds, the cop had ample time between reaching back to his holster pulling out his gun and shooting to say he simply made a terrible mistake.

In the 1980s, I believe NO was at one time the murder capital of the US. The city had lowered the standards for becoming a Police Officer - and it worked out horribly. Cops were corrupt and involved with drug dealing and murder. I believe two cops were sentenced to death for their involvement.

[Grits]

Whoa with the racism comment. It is not at all fair in discussions about instincts, fears, and actions during confrontations. To chalk it up to "racism" is saying a cop hates blacks so just took the opportunity to kill one.

According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher.

Blacks are also about 6 times higher than whites for all crimes.

I would venture a guess that blacks are far more militant and in your face in dealings with cops than whites and others.

There is a reason why white grandmas aren't shot by cops often, and it has nothing to do with racism.

Fager, Ralph knows more about law enforcement than anyone here, including you. Mistakes are made, one has been made in this case. There are strong and good men and women in law enforcement, and there are lesser ones as well. If you don't believe race relations, on both sides of the law, and the color spectrum, are currently a problem in this country, I've got beachfront in Idaho, dude.

The deep south is notorious going back to the days of Huey Long. Louisiana has long held the highest incarceration rate in the world. Angola and private prisons flourish. Mississippi runs second.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/05/louisiana_is_the_worlds_prison.html

Btw, I ain't anybody's grandma. When's the last time you saw a grandma get pulled over and ticketed for going 90 in a 65 in upstate NY? Wanna ride with me? Get in, buckle up, and shut up.

[jk3521]

I don't think that anyone becomes a law officer with"I'm gonna bag me some blacks " in mind. I 'm sure psychological tests are done on officer candidates. Maybe these tests should be reviewed.

[Grits]

I don't think that anyone becomes a law officer with"I'm gonna bag me some blacks " in mind. I 'm sure psychological tests are done on officer candidates. Maybe these tests should be reviewed.

And no one here has indicated such..

[Inner Dirt]

Fager, Ralph knows more about law enforcement than anyone here, including you. Mistakes are made, one has been made in this case. There are strong and good men and women in law enforcement, and there are lesser ones as well. If you don't believe race relations, on both sides of the law, and the color spectrum, are currently a problem in this country, I've got beachfront in Idaho, dude.

The deep south is notorious going back to the days of Huey Long. Louisiana has long held the highest incarceration rate in the world. Angola and private prisons flourish. Mississippi runs second.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/05/louisiana_is_the_worlds_prison.html

Btw, I ain't anybody's grandma. When's the last time you saw a grandma get pulled over and ticketed for going 90 in a 65 in upstate NY? Wanna ride with me? Get in, buckle up, and shut up.

No denying that, but I get tired of the left acting like only white people can be racist and that racism coming from minorities against whites is always justified.

[Marshall Bennett]

Isn't it comical how the liberal media always portrays the so called victim of police brutality as just your average citizen. I thought his family said he was a gentle family man?
It adds to the racist perspective which in turns makes it more media worthy. It motivates emotions. The bigger the story, the more people watch. The media cashes in more on racism than anything else. They drool when blacks die at the hands of white cops. It's as if whites never get shot by cops. They do, but the media (liberal in particular) aren't concerned with these cases, there's no reward in covering it. To them "white lives don't matter". ;)

[Tom]

I heard a story today about a cop who saved three lives in ten days.
Never heard it on any other media outlet.

The media is picking these particular stories to further their own agenda.

[PhantomOnTour]

No denying that, but I get tired of the left acting like only white people can be racist and that racism coming from minorities against whites is always justified.
I love how ALL republicans make blanket statements about liberals ;)

[Tom]

You mean like Obama makes comments about all republicans, or all white people, or Messe Jesse, or Rev Al, about all whites?

Yeah, your side is blameless. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

Just for the record

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/07/caught-on-video-police-shoot-19-year-old-man-during-chaotic-traffic-stop/

[PhantomOnTour]

You mean like Obama makes comments about all republicans, or all white people, or Messe Jesse, or Rev Al, about all whites?

Yeah, your side is blameless. :rolleyes:
With all the jokes you write on here I figured you would recognize one when you read it.
I was making a blanket statement myself (see how i capped the word ALL?), thus, the joke.
Nevermind :faint:

[Tom]

With all the jokes I write on here I figured you would recognize one when you read it.
FTFY.....
Yes...I did.
I made one too. :faint::D

[Inner Dirt]

I love how ALL republicans make blanket statements about liberals ;)

So since I dared to imply minorities can be racist makes me a Republican? Most liberals I know follow party lines, I can predict their answer long before I ask the question.

[PhantomOnTour]

So since I dared to imply minorities can be racist makes me a Republican? Most liberals I know follow party lines, I can predict their answer long before I ask the question.
See Post #41...and lighten up Frances

[MutuelClerk]

Most liberals I know follow party lines, I can predict their answer long before I ask the question.

And you can't with the other side? Remember when we were all on the same side? Both party lines have been divided and conquered defending these deplorable parties.

[xtb]

Not saying the cops weren't at fault but one can't know what was going through their minds trying to subdue someone resisting arrest, who has a violent history and has a gun.

http://www.youngcons.com/soldier-shows-how-alton-sterling-may-have-threatened-cops-life-who-shot-him-media-silent/

[Fager Fan]

Fager, Ralph knows more about law enforcement than anyone here, including you. Mistakes are made, one has been made in this case. There are strong and good men and women in law enforcement, and there are lesser ones as well. If you don't believe race relations, on both sides of the law, and the color spectrum, are currently a problem in this country, I've got beachfront in Idaho, dude.

The deep south is notorious going back to the days of Huey Long. Louisiana has long held the highest incarceration rate in the world. Angola and private prisons flourish. Mississippi runs second.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/05/louisiana_is_the_worlds_prison.html

Btw, I ain't anybody's grandma. When's the last time you saw a grandma get pulled over and ticketed for going 90 in a 65 in upstate NY? Wanna ride with me? Get in, buckle up, and shut up.

What does your reckless driving have to do with anything?

You immediately jump to tossing about the racism card. As if cops (or law-abiding citizens) dont have a reason to possibly feel worried, scared, or otherwise have negative feelings when caught in a particular situation. In animals, it's called instinct, and humans share those same instincts. You liberals don't live in the real world but instead in a fantasy.

I guarantee you that your instincts have kicked in about many people and situations in your life, and they were based on how people presented themselves. You just like to pretend you don't.

[Tor Ekman]

Here is the victims list of accomplishments:
9/09/96 aggravated battery
10/31/97 2nd degree battery
1/06/98 simple battery
5/04/00 public intimidation
9/20/00 carnal knowledge of a juvenile
9/04/01 domestic violence
5/24/05 burglary of an inhabited dwelling place
7/11/05 receiving stolen things
9/12/05 burglary of inhabited dwelling place
3/17/06 simple criminal damage to property, simple robbery, simple theft, drug possession, misrepresentation during booking, simple battery, aggravated battery
4/12/06 aggravated battery, simple criminal damage to property, disturbing the peace, unauthorized entry
4/04/08 domestic abuse battery
6/03/09 resisting an officer, drug possession, receiving stolen things, possession of stolen firearm, illegal carrying of a weapon with CDs, sound reproduct without consent
10/12/09 illegal carrying of weapon, marijuana possession
8/13/15 failure to register as a sex offender
4/08/16 failure to register as a sex offender
6/14/16 ecstacy and marijuana possession.

No doubt just a gentle giant and loving family man . . . I expect by now the newspapers will have tracked down his smiling high school graduation picture complete with tassled cap

[Grits]

You immediately jump to tossing about the racism card. As if cops (or law-abiding citizens) dont have a reason to possibly feel worried, scared, or otherwise have negative feelings when caught in a particular situation. In animals, it's called instinct, and humans share those same instincts. You liberals don't live in the real world but instead in a fantasy.

I guarantee you that your instincts have kicked in about many people and situations in your life, and they were based on how people presented themselves. You just like to pretend you don't.

People write here and you interject and admit your own fears--this would be a problem you have to work through. Not others.

Since yesterday morning, how many men, here, at Pace Advantage, have stated there is a problem with race relations in this country? Why haven't you gone after them? :rolleyes:

How many police officers were ambushed and murdered last night in Dallas? If this loss of life weren't so abhorrent, so tragic, your reducing my post to a racism card would be laughable.

As far as my instincts, yeah, I had to use mine at 16 when I sat on a witness stand and sent a black kid to prison. I got pretty damn good instincts, so save the fantasy shit. :bang:

Like many, I never discuss politics here in Off Topic. I wrote one post, and you pull me out of the crowd. Aren't you special? Lastly, on my political party, you know exactly 0. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

No doubt just a gentle giant and loving family man . . . I expect by now the newspapers will have tracked down his smiling high school graduation picture complete with tassled cap

If Obama had a son......

[Tor Ekman]

If Obama had a son......No, if Obama had a son he'd be a skinny ass metrosexual, possibly gay

[PhantomOnTour]

No, if Obama had a son he'd be a skinny ass metrosexual, possibly gay
When speculating that someone may be skinny and/or gay...are you saying that's a bad thing or good thing?

[Tor Ekman]

When speculating that someone may be skinny and/or gay...are you saying that's a bad thing or good thing?Just commenting as to what the apple might be falling not far from the tree

[PhantomOnTour]

Just commenting as to what the apple might be falling not far from the tree
Well, that clears it up

[Fager Fan]

People write here and you interject and admit your own fears--this would be a problem you have to work through. Not others.

Since yesterday morning, how many men, here, at Pace Advantage, have stated there is a problem with race relations in this country? Why haven't you gone after them? :rolleyes:

How many police officers were ambushed and murdered last night in Dallas? If this loss of life weren't so abhorrent, so tragic, your reducing my post to a racism card would be laughable.

As far as my instincts, yeah, I had to use mine at 16 when I sat on a witness stand and sent a black kid to prison. I got pretty damn good instincts, so save the fantasy shit. :bang:

Like many, I never discuss politics here in Off Topic. I wrote one post, and you pull me out of the crowd. Aren't you special? Lastly, on my political party, you know exactly 0. :rolleyes:

I've responded to plenty of people. Are you a delicate flower or something?

You brag about some weird stuff. First it's careless driving, now it's sending a black boy to prison. Neither of which seems to have anything to do with the consersation.

You played the race card yesterday due to the cases of cops killing blacks, and last night we saw the result of you and others right up the line playing the race card. Constantly for the past 8 years. Congratulations.

[Tom]

Just commenting as to what the apple might be falling not far from the tree

No, that would make him a racist terrorist - just Daddy Mufti.

[Grits]

I've responded to plenty of people. Are you a delicate flower or something?

You brag about some weird stuff. First it's careless driving, now it's sending a black boy to prison. Neither of which seems to have anything to do with the consersation.

You played the race card yesterday due to the cases of cops killing blacks, and last night we saw the result of you and others right up the line playing the race card. Constantly for the past 8 years. Congratulations.

You're a troll. And one of the worst kind, a retired troll. So stupid you don't even recognize when one's concern was over the amount of malice being shown towards cops, HERE--this was my reason for stating Ralph knew more about law enforcement than anyone here. (Missed that part didn't you)?

And as far as bragging? I sent a black man to jail for assault. There's no bragging to it, but at 16, it was traumatic. It sure wasn't a young girl living your lily white, old ass' life pontificating anonymously on a message board. Don't ever speak to me of fantasy again. You know 0.

Again, you cannot read well, much less write well--sitting on a message board 20 hours a day. Maybe find something more constructive to do with your limited skills, primarily which consist of micro managing other's comments.

Me? A delicate flower, not a chance. :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Me? A delicate flower, not a chance. :lol:You can say that again! ;)

[Fager Fan]

I'm not understanding some of the malice towards police officers as a whole. Though, I can't watch the video knowing this man was likely murdered. Racism is alive and well. Sadly. Do I believe there are law enforcement members who are capable of crime? Yes. Do I distrust or dislike law enforcement in general? No, I do not. Experiences I've had with them have been supportive. .... Still, these men and women should know by now, full well, cameras are everywhere.

"I can't watch the video knowing this man was likely murdered. Racism is alive and well."

There it is in black and white, Grits. You said the cop most likely murdered the black man, and that it was RACISM.

You can try to change the narrative, you can try playing tough, you can call me a troll, but it doesn't work on me or anyone with an IQ capable of reading and understanding what you said.

You and others need to quit playing the damn race card. It is why innocent cops were killed last night. You and others are irresponsible with your words and it invites violence between the races.

Spin it any damn way you want but you can't spin me.

[Grits]

The cop did murder Alton Sterling. Odd you don't grasp this.

Racism IS alive and well in this country. And this didn't just happen in the last eight years. I can add this without doubt. It has worsened in the last eight.

I'm not tough, I don't try to be. I just don't take a lot of shit from the likes of you. Which is something most know about me by now. I recognize a pious and smug individual who feels he's brighter than everyone else in the room. Regardless whether the topic is the Maria Borells of the world or race relations.

You're a troll. Others see your reading skill, and your twisting of their comments as well. You're a poor listener, Fager, because you're more interested in your own thinking than anyone else's. No one has anything to offer you.

Finally, spin me on ignore, how 'bout that.

"I can't watch the video knowing this man was likely murdered. Racism is alive and well."

There it is in black and white, Grits. You said the cop most likely murdered the black man, and that it was RACISM.

You can try to change the narrative, you can try playing tough, you can call me a troll, but it doesn't work on me or anyone with an IQ capable of reading and understanding what you said.

You and others need to quit playing the damn race card. It is why innocent cops were killed last night. You and others are irresponsible with your words and it invites violence between the races.

Spin it any damn way you want but you can't spin me.

[Fager Fan]

The cop did murder Alton Sterling. Odd you don't grasp this.

Racism IS alive and well in this country. And this didn't just happen in the last eight years. I can add this without doubt. It has worsened in the last eight.

I'm not tough, I don't try to be. I just don't take a lot of shit from the likes of you. Which is something most know about me by now. I recognize a pious and smug individual who feels he's brighter than everyone else in the room. Regardless whether the topic is the Maria Borells of the world or race relations.

You're a troll. Others see your reading skill, and your twisting of their comments as well. You're a poor listener, Fager, because you're more interested in your own thinking than anyone else's. No one has anything to offer you.

Finally, spin me on ignore, how 'bout that.

Oh, now he didn't possibly murder the black guy, he DID murder the black guy. And he did it out of his own racist motives. That's according to your own words.

But try to spin it. No one's buying. Just like no one bought your histrionics over someone speculating about a Maria Borell suicide similar to the one from the Asmussen barn.

[Tom]

Racism has been doubled down in the last 8 years with the bigoted lies coming out of the foul mouth that POS racist in the WH.

The Police Unions of the nation should his worthless ass for slander and inciting riots.

Dallas is 100% on Obama.

[Grits]

Oh, now he didn't possibly murder the black guy, he DID murder the black guy. And he did it out of his own racist motives. That's according to your own words.

But try to spin it. No one's buying. Just like no one bought your histrionics over someone speculating about a Maria Borell suicide similar to the one from the Asmussen barn.

Why don't you read, if you can, again, much more closely what Ralph and Money have stated today about the shooting of Alton Sterling. They, both, are former cops, now retired, who, how often, had to use brute force, or draw their weapons?

You've gone overboard....still, we're into the night and you won't stand up to men, here, only me. You won't stand up to men who have said far more about racism, about blacks, about whites, etc, than I've ever dreamed of thinking, much less stating. I feel sadness for men like you. No purpose, just sitting online wasting away.

Leave me alone, Fager. I won't ask but once.

[Fager Fan]

Why don't you read, if you can, again, much more closely what Ralph and Money have stated today about the shooting of Alton Sterling. They, both, are former cops, now retired, who, how often, had to use brute force, or draw their weapons?

You've gone overboard....still, we're into the night and you won't stand up to men, here, only me. You won't stand up to men who have said far more about racism, about blacks, about whites, etc, than I've ever dreamed of thinking, much less stating. I feel sadness for men like you. No purpose, just sitting online wasting away.

Leave me alone, Fager. I won't ask but once.

Or you'll do what? What a joke. Will you hit me over the head with the exclamation mark key?

Why do you keep mentioning Ralph? My response was solely about what you said. Do I need to quote you again since you apparently don't understand what you write? You have called this shooting a murder and that the cop's motive was racism. Be a big girl and deal with it when someone calls you out for fanning flames with your racist rhetoric.

Now, go ahead and try to insult me personally yet again. That's what people do when they're losing an argument.

[Inner Dirt]

Racism has been doubled down in the last 8 years with the bigoted lies coming out of the foul mouth that POS racist in the WH.

The Police Unions of the nation should his worthless ass for slander and inciting riots.

Dallas is 100% on Obama.

He has to split credit with the media for fanning the flames, he definitely could diffuse racial tensions and doesn't, he makes them worse. I have to say since I started following politics in 1968 he has been by far the most pathetic POS of a president I recall. He has taken world famous coward Jimmy Carter's place on my worst president's list by a landslide.

[Grits]

Or you'll do what? What a joke. Will you hit me over the head with the exclamation mark key?

Why do you keep mentioning Ralph? My response was solely about what you said. Do I need to quote you again since you apparently don't understand what you write? You have called this shooting a murder and that the cop's motive was racism. Be a big girl and deal with it when someone calls you out for fanning flames with your racist rhetoric.

Now, go ahead and try to insult me personally yet again. That's what people do when they're losing an argument.

You win, old man.

However, I understand every move I make, every word I type at this website. I also understand that Ralph and Money know what they're talking about. I respect them.

I've been called out many times here over the years. I handle it fine. What I don't handle well is a coward that singles me out, while he ignores men who are posting much harsher words. So, let me repeat it once again, YOU DON'T STAND UP TO THE MEN HERE that disagree with you.

I'm not answering another one of your singled out questions or quotes lifted from posts.

Like I said earlier, I've never spoken of politics in any form at PA, or if I have it could be counted on less than 5 fingers. You doggedly chose me and enough is enough. Get off on someone else. Or sit here and talk to yourself. I don't care if you stay up for the next 72 hours. Useless.

[Fager Fan]

You win, old man.

However, I understand every move I make, every word I type at this website. I also understand that Ralph and Money know what they're talking about. I respect them.

I've been called out many times here over the years. I handle it fine. What I don't handle well is a coward that singles me out, while he ignores men who are posting much harsher words. So, let me repeat it once again, YOU DON'T STAND UP TO THE MEN HERE that disagree with you.

I'm not answering another one of your singled out questions or quotes lifted from posts.

Like I said earlier, I've never spoken of politics in any form at PA, or if I have it could be counted on less than 5 fingers. You doggedly chose me and enough is enough. Get off on someone else. Or sit here and talk to yourself. I don't care if you stay up for the next 72 hours. Useless.

EDIT by CJ:

Going way too far here FF...knock it off.

[JustRalph]

EDIT by CJ:

Going way too far here FF...knock it off.

Time out. I call it! This is a little much.

[ElKabong]

Fager...Are you Donald trump by chance?? :) maybe phantomontours cousin.

"Leave Britney (grits) alone...."

Stop the obsession already

[davew]

If Obama had a son......

if his mom had a Planned Parenthood....

[JustRalph]

I'm hearing/reading lots of talk online about an interview Rush Limbaugh did today. Here's the transcript. Very interesting gun info from a Manhattan Institute scholar. If you're really interested........

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2016/07/08/heather_mac_donald_talks_about_her_essential_book_ the_war_on_cops

[dartman51]

Here is a little FACT, for everyone to chew on. WE, don't have all the FACTS. Unless you've read the police report, or were directly involved, and know ALL the facts, in that case, i'll apologize. I don't care about a video. The video doesn't always show EVERYTHING. Jumping to conclusions, and stating things as facts, when we don't have all the facts, is just plain wrong. THAT'S what the MSM does, that's what Jesse Jackson does, that's what Al Sharpton does, that's what BLM does, and yes, that's what Obama does. THAT'S why racism is alive and well in America, today. THAT'S why it has gotten worse in the last 8 years. People fanning the flames, keeping it alive. When you have large groups like BLM, marching in the streets, and chanting, "WHAT DO WE WANT...DEAD COPS...WHEN DO WE WANT IT....NOW!!", WHAT THE HELL DOES ANYONE EXPECT. I know we have free speech, in this country, but, just like you can't yell "FIRE", in a crowded theatre, those words should also be against the law. But, if you try to shut them down, they will scream, "RACISM", and some candy ass bleeding heart Liberal judge, will take their side, and give them free reign. One more thing, before I get off my soap box, for tonight. All this crap with the MSM, and the aforementioned others, trying to make it sound like cops have declared war on black men, is just that, CRAP.
Here's a little fact that I learned today, from the BUREAU OF STATISTICS. There have been over 500 cop related shooting deaths, this year. Of them, 56 have been declared "wrongful" shootings. Of the 56 wrongful deaths, 54 have been WHITE, while only 2, have been BLACK. It's time to stop the bullshit. :mad:

[highnote]

Always be polite to a police officer. Rule #1.

Absolutely right. I always say yes sir/ma'am and no sir/ma'am.

I told my son, who is just starting to drive, to keep his hands on the steering wheel if he is pulled over and say yes sir and no sir.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... say yes sir and no sir.

If he's really wanting to press his luck, tell him to learn uniforms and figure out ranks. Then when he impresses someone by calling them by the correct title, he can really bullshit them with tales of his desire to pursue a career in law enforcement. :D

[highnote]

You're a troll. Others see your reading skill, and your twisting of their comments as well. You're a poor listener, Fager, because you're more interested in your own thinking than anyone else's. No one has anything to offer you.

Of all the people to attack on this board, you, Grits, are one person who should never be attacked. You are just about the kindest person here.

Fager is a troll. He seems to enjoy getting people riled up. He definitely twists people's words. So I came up with an endearing name for him -- Trolling Fager.

I am not sure, but I don't think I have ever called anyone else on this board a derogatory name. But since Fager is so quick to call people names, it made me want to give him a good-natured nickname. :D

He makes me laugh at the way he twists words or acts like he doesn't get the gist of a post -- all in an attempt to see how much of a nuisance he can be. He's probably a teenager. :D

[highnote]

If he's really wanting to press his luck, tell him to learn uniforms and figure out ranks. Then when he impresses someone by calling them by the correct title, he can really bullshit them with tales of his desire to pursue a career in law enforcement. :D

That's a great idea!

I have a story about how most people should NOT act towards a cop...

A colleague of mine is ex-CIA and served in Vietnam in '60s. He is white. He was about 55 years old at the time that he and I were driving home after work in NYC. He pulled onto the West Side Highway with his van. The West Side Highway is for non-commercial vehicles only. Commercial vehicles are prohibited from using it.

He had "combination" plates on his big Ford Econoline van. Combo plates allow him to park in commercial zones in Manhattan, yet, use the parkways as a non-commercial vehicle.

So traffic is heavy due to construction. A young NYC cop who is working the construction site tells him to pull over to the side and asks him to get out of the van. The cop starts telling him he can't go onto the West Side Highway with commercial plates and says he is going to write him a ticket.

I could see my colleague getting hot under the collar. All of a sudden he started ripping the cop a new one. He got right into his face and told the cop he didn't know what he was talking about. I had never seen a NYC cop back down before, but he did. He radioed in to HQ and found out that my colleague was right. He apologized and off we went.

There was something about the way my colleague handled the situation that was intimidating -- not in a life-threatening way, but in a scolding, fatherly way. I'll never forget it.

Another time I was driving home from NYC with the same colleague in bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic. I was trying to merge into a lane on the Cross Bronx Expressway and accidentally knicked the corner of the bumper of the car in front of me. The car pulls ahead about 10 feet and then slams it into reverse and hits me on purpose!

My colleague jumped out my van and ran up to the driver and started verbally assaulting him. The young kid driving the car just shrunk into his seat in the same way the NYC cop backed away.

I don't know why my colleague was so intimidating, but it must have had something to do with his CIA training. Maybe it is because he knew how to take control of a situation when he knew he was in the right and the other person was in the wrong?

[JustRalph]

http://abc13.com/no-charges-for-baton-rouge-officers-who-killed-alton-sterling/3268728/

No charges

[thaskalos]

Shocking! I was expecting a conviction. :rolleyes:

[lamboguy]

This is textbook reason why you need to be armed to protect yourself from the authority that wr have here. If a cop knows you are armed he will stay the hell away from you and go after some other sucker..

This ruling sends a message to cops all over that the justice department has your back and you can do whatever you want without repercussions.

[thaskalos]

The two cops involved in the shooting have been on paid administrative leave since July 5, 2016.

I guess the authorities figured that this was enough of a "punishment". :rolleyes:

[Inner Dirt]

Shocking! I was expecting a conviction. :rolleyes:

It obviously appears you want the cops to wait to be shot at before shooting back. The guy had a gun in his pants, had already been tased and was still wrestling with the cops on the ground. He also had drugs in his system that can cause aggression and paranoia.

[RunForTheRoses]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/07/18/police-shootings-and-race/?utm_term=.06daeb0ba9b4

[Inner Dirt]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/07/18/police-shootings-and-race/?utm_term=.06daeb0ba9b4


Wow, I can't believe that extreme liberal rag even posted that article.

[Hank]

The two cops involved in the shooting have been on paid administrative leave since July 5, 2016.

I guess the authorities figured that this was enough of a "punishment". :rolleyes:

voilà note hand position.

[thaskalos]

It's obvious from the above photo that the policemen's lives were in grave danger. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

It's obvious from the above photo that the policemen's lives were in grave danger. :rolleyes:

He had a loaded gun in his pocket. I still think the cops were wrong, but you cannot discount that there was a real threat. But they handled it wrong.

I read one of the cops was fired today....

[thaskalos]

He had a loaded gun in his pocket. I still think the cops were wrong, but you cannot discount that there was a real threat. But they handled it wrong.

I read one of the cops was fired today....

Here's the problem as I see it, Ralph. These cops obviously "handled it wrong", and the other cops in that Arizona hotel handled it even worse. But, when these cases go to trial and the cops are exonerated of all wrong-doing...then this sends a horrible message to the other "trigger-happy" cops out there. When cops "handle things wrong" in cases like these, then people die unnecessarily...and that should be unacceptable in a civilized society. I keep thinking of that shocking video in the Arizona hotel where a totally unarmed man was shot to death after begging the cops for his life on his knees...and I can't help but think that something terribly unfair is going on here if cops like those are allowed to go free without having to answer for their blatant crimes.

These Arizona cops walking around free is obvious proof to me that the cops are as close to "above the law" as it gets in this country...and that's something that I will never be able to accept, or understand. IMO...a crime should be a CRIME...no matter WHO commits it.

[Inner Dirt]

I keep thinking of that shocking video in the Arizona hotel where a totally unarmed man was shot to death after begging the cops for his life on his knees...and I can't help but think that something terribly unfair is going on here if cops like those are allowed to go free without having to answer for their blatant crimes.

These Arizona cops walking around free is obvious proof to me that the cops are as close to "above the law" as it gets in this country...and that's something that I will never be able to accept, or understand. IMO...a crime should be a CRIME...no matter WHO commits it.

The Arizona hotel situation was about the most disgusting thing I had ever seen. The cop in charge seemed to try to escalate the situation, which should have conflicted with his training. In the latest case the cops could have done better, but the guy had a gun on him, had already been tased, was resisting and had quite a few different drugs in his system. If this was a lawsuit over a car accident the perp would have been found 75% responsible for his own death, therefore you have to let the cops walk.

Most of the time people who die at the hands of police share most of the blame and have a history of committing crimes, eventually their luck runs out.
Sorry but their unlucky day doesn't bother me much. I have a career criminal sociopath nephew who should get out of the pen in a year or so at 25. None of his crimes alone deserve the death penalty, but if he dies at the hands of a cop someday I say good riddance, the world is a much better place without him.

[thaskalos]

The Arizona hotel situation was about the most disgusting thing I had ever seen. The cop in charge seemed to try to escalate the situation, which should have conflicted with his training. In the latest case the cops could have done better, but the guy had a gun on him, had already been tased, was resisting and had quite a few different drugs in his system. If this was a lawsuit over a car accident the perp would have been found 75% responsible for his own death, therefore you have to let the cops walk.

Most of the time people who die at the hands of police share most of the blame and have a history of committing crimes, eventually their luck runs out.
Sorry but their unlucky day doesn't bother me much. I have a career criminal sociopath nephew who should get out of the pen in a year or so at 25. None of his crimes alone deserve the death penalty, but if he dies at the hands of a cop someday I say good riddance, the world is a much better place without him.

"Most of the time" ain't good enough in these situations. Even if the victim is someone whom the world would be better without...he still doesn't deserve to be shot to death unless the situation demands it. And this applies to "criminally sociopath" nephew as well.

[Inner Dirt]

"Most of the time" ain't good enough in these situations. Even if the victim is someone whom the world would be better without...he still doesn't deserve to be shot to death unless the situation demands it. And this applies to "criminally sociopath" nephew as well.

The POS attacked a small elderly female teacher when he was in High School.
He is doing 2-5 for what was originally charged as attempted strangulation of his girlfriend that was reduced to felony domestic violence in front of a child. He has a so called "anger problem" that oddly only manifests itself around women and frail men. I could shoot him between the eyes and throw him off a cliff if I could get away with it and I have known him since he was a baby.

[thaskalos]

The POS attacked a small elderly female teacher when he was in High School.
He is doing 2-5 for what was originally charged as attempted strangulation of his girlfriend that was reduced to felony domestic violence in front of a child. He has a so called "anger problem" that oddly only manifests itself around women and frail men. I could shoot him between the eyes and throw him off a cliff if I could get away with it and I have known him since he was a baby.

Are his parents and siblings "normal"?

[Tom]

It's obvious from the above photo that the policemen's lives were in grave danger. :rolleyes:

Hey, if he was grabbing for MY arse, I'd have shot him!

[Inner Dirt]

The POS attacked a small elderly female teacher when he was in High School.
He is doing 2-5 for what was originally charged as attempted strangulation of his girlfriend that was reduced to felony domestic violence in front of a child. He has a so called "anger problem" that oddly only manifests itself around women and frail men. I could shoot him between the eyes and throw him off a cliff if I could get away with it and I have known him since he was a baby.


Are his parents and siblings "normal"?


His dad is normal, but parents divorced when he was 12. His mother, my sister I would brand a manipulative liar. His older sister is normal, the jury was out on his younger brother when I last saw him. Noah was a strange case, at 12 he was well behaved, honor roll student, seemed to care about people. By the age of 14, he was heavily into drugs, flunking out of High School, and attacking anyone who told him "no" that was weaker than him. By that age he had hit his mother, 16 year old sister, and a female teacher. All which earned him trips to juvenile hall in Idaho where they treat juvenile offenders almost like adults. By 17 he had been locked up on 9 different occasions, oddly enough bragging about all his crimes.

It seemed like his personality had drastically changed, every drug and counseling under the sun was tried, nothing worked. I tried my hand at him 3 separate times. Uncle Bob, (me) was the tough love guy. Listening to him talk creeped me out. He seemed to justify every time he attacked someone as "They made him mad." He committed a string of residential burglaries for which he bragged about, but was never caught. He claimed he only stole from losers and people who deserved it.

Noah should never breathe air as a free man again, anyone who thinks he should is about as sane as he is in my book.

[JustRalph]

I don’t disagree with anything I’ve read.......

Let me say this. Police departments just like any organization take on a personality over time. They normally reflect the thinking of those in charge. Sometimes it takes new leadership a few years to turn a ship, but that’s why you see lots of “outside hires” in the upper ranks of police departments.

When I look back at these things we discuss on this board I have the benefit of serving on five different police departments in three different states. Small and large. Over 15 yrs. I find that it sometimes feels unfair to those officers. But they also have supervisors and leaders who should have the appropriate outlook.

I also worked three years as a hospital cop or in hospital security. I worked in my early 20’s in Southern California. When I look back at how little I really knew early in my career, I’m glad I was in a very good training environment. I trained with the largest Sheriff’s Dept in the country (SB) and the CHP, the Beverly Hills PD, Riverside PD and Sheriff’s office. After returning to Ohio to live (my mom had cancer and my wife wanted to move back) I was required to attend the police academy again. It was a whole different training environment with very different priorities and methods. But it broadened my knowledge.

I was in the Air Force the entire time I was a police officer in California. I was part of a program where military police were mingled in with civilian police departments near Air Force bases and other military installations. I graduated from the San Bernardino basic academy. I attended with permission of my commanding officer with an agreement that our military police officers would work a minimum of 16 hours a month at the direction of our local Sheriff’s station. We normally did much more. Most Weeks 3 days Air Force at least and then 3 days with the civilian cops. Rotating days off.

One day I might be working in a car with San Bernardino Deputies and the next day I was working as the gate entry guard at an Air Force base. The next night I might be helping work a search warrant off base at a military members home in the county, as an investigator temp attached to Air Force OSI, yet still maintaining my jurisdiction as a deputy. I was a very valuable tool to investigators having dual jurisdiction and all. I wore two badges most of the time. As a young guy it was an incredible experience.

The experience in a hospital was 2 yrs early in my career after returning to Ohio. Working the ER most of the time in my late 20’s was some of the best experience to prepare to return to a police car. The 2nd version of me in a police car was immensely more knowledgeable and smarter than the first one. The time in the hospital was invaluable in so many ways that helped me relate to people in crisis on the street. It also allowed me to recognize medical and mental issues that other officers had never seen before.

The point being, I can sit here at the keyboard years later and tell you that things were handled wrong, but the 2 officers in this instance had about 7 yrs total experience between them. All in the same area geographically. That’s a recipe for having limited knowledge and options. I might be a little unfair in my comments toward them. I suspect a lack of supervision near the scene might be a factor. But I can only look at it through my own eyes. So I try not to be too hard without complete facts and known circumstances.

I have a business customer who was a Baton Rouge Cop for five years. He quit about 2 yrs ago.......I may bring this up to him when I see him next week. Maybe not.......