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View Full Version : Toughest streak in baseball to pass?


cj
07-07-2004, 06:03 PM
Which of these streaks do you feel will be the toughest to surpass in baseball?

chickenhead
07-07-2004, 06:17 PM
Ripken will never get passed.

andicap
07-07-2004, 07:34 PM
I have to agree, especially considering that today's players won't risk their zillion dollar contracts by playing with the injuries that Rifkin (and before him, Lou Gehrig) endured.

How few people know the extent of the injuries that both men played with.

Having said that, many people feel Rifkin did a disservice to his team by NOT resting once in a while. How much better could his stats have been if he took a couple of hot summer days off?

I think it's a courageous record, yet somehow overrated as to how much it helped his team. Unlike Dimag, who hit .405 or so over the course of his streak and helped the Yankees blow the AL race wide open in '41.

Gagne's is another great streak, yet somehow cheapened slightly by how easy it is to get a save these days. You come in and pitch one inning with a 2-run lead and even if you give up a run, you get a save.

This isn't a streak, but the record that will NEVER get broken is Cy Young winning 510 games.

kenwoodallpromos
07-07-2004, 07:40 PM
Bonds career walks. Gagne's takes your team hitting. / Joe D is challenged a lot / Cal's will be beat by a DH.
Bonds/ fast swing and power is hardest to match.

chickenhead
07-07-2004, 07:40 PM
what was hershisers streak? 60 innings? That might be a strong "other". Can't remember if that was all regular season or not....

chickenhead
07-07-2004, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by kenwoodallpromos
Bonds career walks. Gagne's takes your team hitting. / Joe D is challenged a lot / Cal's will be beat by a DH.
Bonds/ fast swing and power is hardest to match.

DH's should have their own records..they only play 1/2 the game.

Bonds is a record, not a streak.

BetHorses!
07-07-2004, 07:52 PM
I voted other

Without a doubt Johnny Vander Meer's consecutive no hitters.

Maybe just maybe some might tie it but who is going to throw 3 no hitters in a row???

Lance
07-07-2004, 08:24 PM
You beat me to it, BetHorses. I'm with you. If there are any Stephen Jay Gould fans out there, they will probably find this article interesting. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/4337

chickenhead
07-07-2004, 08:35 PM
very interesting article. I'm pretty sure I disagree with the basic premise, but it is interesting.

Valuist
07-07-2004, 08:39 PM
I say Dimaggio's because its the most well known and publicized. Ripken's strength is about longevity; not necessarily skill. Not saying it wasn't significant but I am one who believes he kept the steak alive at the expense of the team. I've heard the same things re: Favre. Between Ripken and Favre, I think Favre's steak in a heavy contact sport is more impressive. As for the non blown saves streak, the best pitchers are starters. Gagne couldnt last past the 4th inning as a starter. Look at how effective Smoltz is as a closer. I think the save is a bogus stat anyways.

Who has challenged Joe D? I remember Rose getting over 40 games but that was over 25 years ago. I don't think anyones been closer since.

Bubbles
07-07-2004, 09:33 PM
Luis Castillo had 33 games a few years ago, and Paul Molitor had somewhere around 40 before that.

Dave Schwartz
07-07-2004, 10:15 PM
I think that the most amazing thing about Dimaggio was that he surpassed that 56 game mark in the PCL several years before, proving that his consistency was no fluke.

The other thing I find amazing is that in 1941 Ted Williams batted .406 and did not when the MVP award.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

sq764
07-07-2004, 10:22 PM
Let me ask this.. 10 years ago, how many people actually though Maris's homerun record would go down?

I will admit, not me..

andicap
07-07-2004, 10:49 PM
imagine how many HR's Maris would have hit if he was on steriods like McGwire. (andro is a steriod.)

JustRalph
07-07-2004, 10:49 PM
Other..........Pete Rose's Hit Record..........do the math.......pretty tough one..........some nice suggestions in this thread though. I would say 3 no-hitters in a row would be right up there with Rose or maybe as I think about it, maybe top Rose's

JustRalph
07-07-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by andicap
imagine how many HR's Maris would have hit if he was on steriods like McGwire. (andro is a steriod.)

Take look at the arms on these guys.......

http://www.s-t.com/daily/07-97/07-06-97/duo.jpg

http://whyfiles.org/090doping_sport/images/arm.jpg

sq764
07-07-2004, 11:12 PM
Not only steroids, but horrible pitching (due to expansion), as well as tiny ballparks..

Imagine Mantle and Ruth and Aaron playing in Camden Yards.. Ruth might hit 150 homeruns..

fiveouttasix
07-08-2004, 07:08 AM
How about career wins by a pitcher. Cy Young had 511 wins. There's a record that will never be broken.

cj
07-08-2004, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by andicap
... Rifkin...

...Rifkin...

What is this? You don't see me calling your Yankees Mandle or Rute or DiMaglio! RIPKEN!

cj
07-08-2004, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by BetHorses!
I voted other

Without a doubt Johnny Vander Meer's consecutive no hitters.

Maybe just maybe some might tie it but who is going to throw 3 no hitters in a row???

I considered making that a choice, but I don't really count 2 as a streak.

Another one, will a pitcher ever win 30 games again?

cj
07-08-2004, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by Dave Schwartz
I think that the most amazing thing about Dimaggio was that he surpassed that 56 game mark in the PCL several years before, proving that his consistency was no fluke.

The other thing I find amazing is that in 1941 Ted Williams batted .406 and did not when the MVP award.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Ted Williams not only hit .406, he won the Triple Crown and didn't get MVP!

Valuist
07-08-2004, 10:27 AM
Orel Herschiser had a pretty amazing streak; 56 or 58 scoreless innings in a row. That's amazing. Probably somebody will break that one but we'll all be 6 feet into the ground by then.

One streak I don't believe will be broken is UCLA's 90-something game winning streak in college basketball. The game has changed a lot; much more parity in college sports. Teams from mid major conferences beat the so-called power conference teams quite often now.

andicap
07-08-2004, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by cjmilkowski
What is this? You don't see me calling your Yankees Mandle or Rute or DiMaglio! RIPKEN!

I apologize, CK

sq764
07-08-2004, 11:04 AM
Some Sports records that I don't think will ever be broken:

- Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game

- Gretzky's 215 point season

- Cy Young's 511 wins

- Another 30 game winner in baseball

andicap
07-08-2004, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by sq764
Not only steroids, but horrible pitching (due to expansion), as well as tiny ballparks..

Imagine Mantle and Ruth and Aaron playing in Camden Yards.. Ruth might hit 150 homeruns..


Here's the trouble with your premise:

1. 1961 was an expansion year (the Angels and Washington Senators who replaced the old Senators -- "First in war, first in peace, last in the American League" -- who moved to Minnesota), and many people wrote back then that the lack of pitching inflated stats that year too.

2. Mantle and Maris played in Yankee Stadium where lefties hit into a cozy 296 feet porch in right field. There was no better hitters ballpark for lefties around at the time. (It was another matter for righties who faced a 467 foot hurdle in left-center. Imagine how many HRs Dimaggio would have hit in say, Fenway Park.)

Here is another difference between now and then. Many more young athletes wanted to become baseball players. Now they are just as likely to play basketball, football, or other sports.So that talent pool today in baseball is definitely diluted. African Americans in particular are not playing baseball as much as they are football and basketball.
This has been offset somewhat by the influx of talented players from Latin America and now Japan.

I'm embarassed that I got Cy Young's lifestate win stat wrong. Of course it was 511 instead of 510.

BTW, anyone here remember the old Jack Spector sports talk show on WMCA in NYC in the early 1970s?


If it sounds like I was around back in 61, I'm not THAT old. I read more baseball books when I was a kid than anyone else.

sq764
07-08-2004, 11:26 AM
Well, one thing that is the MAIN difference (to me) now is that hitters have such an edge over pitchers. And it's one reason - they are not allowed to 'own the plate' like they used to..

If you throw inside on a guy that's leaning over the plate, you are likely to get warned by an umpire, do it again and you are thrown out. This is a freaking joke.

Not to mention the body armor these guys go up there with (elbow pads, hand guards, sleeves, etc..).. They have absolutey ZERO fear up there, because they know they can't get thrown at and even if they do, they have padding to protect them.

Bonds is a perfect example. He wears all that bullshit up to the plate, then when a pitch even comes remotely close to him, he gets upset. He wouldn't have lasted back in the day. Bob Gibson would have thrown the first pitch over his head, the next behind him and the third in his ribs..

The batters back then had a degree of fear in their minds.. With no fear, like today, batters have a phenominal edge over pitchers..

Dave Schwartz
07-08-2004, 12:16 PM
CJ,

"Ted Williams not only hit .406, he won the Triple Crown and didn't get MVP!"

You are right! I forgot that.

Of course, it was his misfortune to do it in the wrong year, while Joe D. was setting his record. And the fact that Ted W. did not get the MVP shows what the BBWs thought about the feat.


Dave

Binder
07-08-2004, 04:10 PM
With the way pitching has changed
Basically a hitter will face 3 different pitchers
each game, Starter, Setup man, Closer
Its going to be very tough to hit in 56 games
Plus the media is very intense now
I can't imagine the pressure if anyone got past the 44
that Pete Rose set. and there was no Sports Center
and all the cable news coverage too It will just be too much to over come. I used to think Roger Maris' 61
would stand for the same reasons
The difference is Bonds Sosa and McGuire
could still go cold for a few games then hit 2 or 3 in a game A consecutive hit streak is all or nothing every day with the whole world watching

One more 3 no hitters in a row is crazy

kenwoodallpromos
07-09-2004, 01:43 AM
Ripkin. Because of the money and very few players stay in the game long enough.
You did not include the NYYankees world series championship streak. That one will be tough to beat.