View Full Version : clockwise at woodbine
Y'all,
Friday's first and Sunday's second will be run clockwise.
I hope that you take the opportunity to watch.
Stu
I guess some will like this, just seems pointless to me. I'm picturing all the problems it could cause with data and timing. Hopefully all that stuff has been worked out beforehand with Trakus and Equibase and also tested. I'm sure I'm jaded but every time a "new" temp rail position is used it is a timing disaster. I can only imagine what running in the wrong direction will do.
Calder ? did something like this a few years back ? The only thing was they ran a race counter clockwise at the same time. :eek: Or was that Canterbury ?
I agree with CJ :ThmbDown:
Z
EMD4ME
06-09-2016, 10:27 PM
I guess some will like this, just seems pointless to me. I'm picturing all the problems it could cause with data and timing. Hopefully all that stuff has been worked out beforehand with Trakus and Equibase and also tested. I'm sure I'm jaded but every time a "new" temp rail position is used it is a timing disaster. I can only imagine what running in the wrong direction will do.
I agree. It is repulsive that tracks don't care enough to accurately time races.
Besides the beams being misplaced and the distances not being accurate, how hard it is to have a running stopwatch in the corner (in seconds and hundredths as the race is running?) of the live feed?
Joke of a game we play.....
BUT...the hard working, who capture mistakes, can be rewarded for having an information edge.
Calder's versions were in 2006 and 2007.
While on the same day, there were two simultaneously run races on the turf and main but those were counter clockwise
With respect to timing, a trial run was conducted last month with Trakus timing in place.
Okay by me with trying some clockwise races. That part of the turf course doesn't get much traffic/wear-and-tear. I won't be betting, not because of the clockwise aspect but because I ignore races 5f and shorter.
Calder's versions were in 2006 and 2007.
While on the same day, there were two simultaneously run races on the turf and main but those were counter clockwise
Wow 10 years have past, time flies :eek:
Vinman
06-10-2016, 12:52 AM
Calder's versions were in 2006 and 2007.
While on the same day, there were two simultaneously run races on the turf and main but those were counter clockwise
I believe these races were billed as "The world's fastest daily double". They obviously needed two gate crews to pull this off.
Vinman
johnhannibalsmith
06-10-2016, 01:43 AM
Go Leo.
Woodbine was my #1 track for a new years.
Totally off my radar now.
Woodbine :ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:
barahona44
06-10-2016, 07:29 AM
I looked up why distance races(horse, auto, running,etc.) are run counter clockwise in the US and the argument is that 90% of humans are right hand dominant, thus they are more comfortable making turns with their bodies going counter clockwise.I was visiting my sister who lives in England and I tried driving my nephews stick shift car.I felt like I was back in driving school when I was first learning to drive a stick.I kept starting, stopping and stalling every 20 or 30 feet because I couldn't coordinate the moves with my left hand.
I don't know if most horses are right hoof dominant. :)
woodbinepmi
06-10-2016, 09:51 AM
Woodbine was my #1 track for a new years.
Totally off my radar now.
Woodbine :ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:
Me too (hence my i.d.) but finally had enough with the plastic racing. Watch only big races now for entertainment purposes only.
No fractions posted, hopefully that was TVG thing and not a Woodbine thing.
PhantomOnTour
06-10-2016, 01:04 PM
Really? I understand they're gonna run a bunch this way this summer.
As a figure guy I'm wondering about accurate timing and splits.
Will there be a notification in future pp's that these races were run the other way?
No fractions posted, hopefully that was TVG thing and not a Woodbine thing.
They were posted on the live Woodbine feed.
There are fractions in the Trakus chart. 23.66 seems like an awfully slow 1/4 for 5f turf sprinters, but I haven't seen how much run up there is.
johnhannibalsmith
06-10-2016, 01:20 PM
There are fractions in the Trakus chart. 23.66 seems like an awfully slow 1/4 for 5f turf sprinters, but I haven't seen how much run up there is.
About two seconds slower than an easy opening quarter for Leo and Omar dueling at TuP.
Clocker
06-10-2016, 03:47 PM
There are fractions in the Trakus chart. 23.66 seems like an awfully slow 1/4 for 5f turf sprinters, but I haven't seen how much run up there is.
The chart says the run up was 25 feet.
http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=WO&raceDate=06/10/2016&cy=CAN&rn=1
The chart says the run up was 25 feet.
http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=WO&raceDate=06/10/2016&cy=CAN&rn=1
Let's see how the rest of the turf races play out, maybe the course is really slow. I doubt it though, that fraction is dubious at best.
dilanesp
06-10-2016, 04:33 PM
I say they should run a relay race. Go clockwise around the turf course and when the horse hits the finish line, he "hands off" to another horse who runs the other way around on the main track. Why not make horse racing as complicated as possible? :P
I say they should run a relay race. Go clockwise around the turf course and when the horse hits the finish line, he "hands off" to another horse who runs the other way around on the main track. Why not make horse racing as complicated as possible? :P
I'm all for trying new things, but is this something horseplayers were really clamoring for in Canada? I find that hard to believe. Post race you would have thought they pulled off the greatest thing since the wheel was invented.
woodbinepmi
06-10-2016, 04:38 PM
CJ, Good luck making a number for that race. I feel for you brother.
dilanesp
06-10-2016, 05:26 PM
I'm all for trying new things, but is this something horseplayers were really clamoring for in Canada? I find that hard to believe. Post race you would have thought they pulled off the greatest thing since the wheel was invented.
The only legitimate justification I can possibly see for doing this is if you had a wear-and-tear on the course issue.
In other words, let's say the far turn of a turf course was torn up from overuse and running some races clockwise would allow a track to continue to card turf races. Sure, do it.
But otherwise, this is just needlessly confusing horseplayers for no reason.
I remember, 30 years ago, Hollywood Park used to run some 1 mile and 1 1/16 mile turf races out of the chute, and some off the straightaway. Same thing, just as stupid.
fiznow
06-10-2016, 05:46 PM
Y'all,
Friday's first and Sunday's second will be run clockwise.
I hope that you take the opportunity to watch.
Stu
I like the idea, Woodbine is doing a lot to make horse racing more attractive. Horse racing is much more than just numbers, figures, facts and times. ;)
But I also understand that it's hard for people who create figures.
I like the idea, Woodbine is doing a lot to make horse racing more attractive. Horse racing is much more than just numbers, figures, facts and times. ;)
But I also understand that it's hard for people who create figures.
It isn't just that stuff for me. They limited it to eight runners I believe. Maybe if it drew a big field I'd feel differently. Only seven ran. I just don't see it as any more than a novelty act that really does nothing for bettors.
JustRalph
06-10-2016, 07:19 PM
Why?
Why do this?
I like the idea, Woodbine is doing a lot to make horse racing more attractive. Horse racing is much more than just numbers, figures, facts and times. ;)
But I also understand that it's hard for people who create figures.
And those who bet races.
This is minor league BS form a once great track.
Was it sold recently to some consortium of international fools?
Why?
Why do this?
Hockey season is over, not much else to do up there.
Clocker
06-10-2016, 09:14 PM
Why?
Why do this?
That was my first thought. How many serious players passed the race because of the uncertainty of the relevance of past performances in handicapping these races? How many will hate having to use the numbers coming out of these races for future handicapping? We already have questions here about the timing of this race and how well it reflects the actual performances of the horses.
Casual players just look at their tip sheets and other public "experts" and have no idea why this is any different than any other race. It does nothing for them.
zawaaa
06-10-2016, 09:25 PM
Why?
Why do this?the novelty
the condition of the turf course
because there's nothing wrong with not being afraid to fail
Clocker
06-10-2016, 09:56 PM
the novelty
Maybe the NFL or MLB should change the rules from time to time to increase fan interest.
No other sport relies so heavily on historic data. Serious players hate novelty, casual players don't know it is novel.
the condition of the turf course
That's why they have rails.
zawaaa
06-10-2016, 10:15 PM
Clocker,
everything you said is wrong; bravo
davew
06-10-2016, 10:23 PM
The only legitimate justification I can possibly see for doing this is if you had a wear-and-tear on the course issue.
In other words, let's say the far turn of a turf course was torn up from overuse and running some races clockwise would allow a track to continue to card turf races. Sure, do it.
But otherwise, this is just needlessly confusing horseplayers for no reason.
I remember, 30 years ago, Hollywood Park used to run some 1 mile and 1 1/16 mile turf races out of the chute, and some off the straightaway. Same thing, just as stupid.
But this is part of the 'Euro Turf Series'. A couple horses drifted wide on turn and were probably thinking what the heck....
Clocker
06-10-2016, 10:36 PM
Clocker,
everything you said is wrong; bravo
Thank you for that detailed response. :rolleyes:
Of course I was jaded with reason. Only one fraction, the first which is probably wrong, made its way into the official chart. How did I just know they would screw it up?
HuggingTheRail
06-10-2016, 11:48 PM
Of course I was jaded with reason. Only one fraction, the first which is probably wrong, made its way into the official chart. How did I just know they would screw it up?
23.66 converts into 21.43 US with the exchange rate....
The runup is small, the first part of that race is slightly uphill and includes a hairpin turn, so of course the first quarter is not going to be fast. The second quarter is mostly straight and downhill so nothing surprising about it being faster. I don't see any issue with the timing.
They run both righthanded and lefthanded races in many countries where racing is much more popular than it is in North America, so I can't imagine that Woodbine is somehow killing racing as we know it by running a few righthanded events.
23.66 converts into 21.43 US with the exchange rate....
Time to dust off the old Kel-Co Calculators! :lol:
The runup is small, the first part of that race is slightly uphill and includes a hairpin turn, so of course the first quarter is not going to be fast. The second quarter is mostly straight and downhill so nothing surprising about it being faster. I don't see any issue with the timing.
They run both righthanded and lefthanded races in many countries where racing is much more popular than it is in North America, so I can't imagine that Woodbine is somehow killing racing as we know it by running a few righthanded events.
Why no 1/2 mile fraction in the charts?
Why no 1/2 mile fraction in the charts?
Ask Equibase. All I know is that from the layout of that course, the first fraction of those 5f races is not going to be fast. The posted 4f time seemed reasonable to me.
Ask Equibase. All I know is that from the layout of that course, the first fraction of those 5f races is not going to be fast. The posted 4f time seemed reasonable to me.
Yeah, I understand about the layout. Still seems on the slow side but it could be as you say.
This is hardly the end of the world and didn't mean it come across like that. I just think there many way more important things tracks could try if they want to try something new.
I don't think they're doing this for the sake of novelty per se. Turf races tend to attract more betting than synthetic or dirt races, they're popular with horsemen and the section of the WO turf course between the finish line and the backstretch is rarely used. Seems logical to me.
Uphill vs downhill makes a real difference in times.
I don't think they're doing this for the sake of novelty per se. Turf races tend to attract more betting than synthetic or dirt races, they're popular with horsemen and the section of the WO turf course between the finish line and the backstretch is rarely used. Seems logical to me.
Uphill vs downhill makes a real difference in times.
Turf gets more betting mostly because of bigger fields. They are limiting these to 8.
My guess is that the 8-horse limit will be a short-term thing until they feel that the jocks are accustomed and comfortable. Certainly when they run 5.5f instead of 5f, there's enough run to the turn that there's no legit reason to restrict it to only 8 horses. Even at 5f the run to reach the turn was a few seconds longer than I had expected. Saw nothing in yesterday's race to make me think that 10 horses would be a problem in a 5f race.
Via Emma-Jayne Wilson.
U9UH0PNDNbE
biggestal99
06-11-2016, 03:13 PM
You fig guys should try and make a fig at let's say Epsom downs.
That would drive you crazy.
Allan
PS- I love those reverse races
thespaah
06-11-2016, 04:07 PM
I guess some will like this, just seems pointless to me. I'm picturing all the problems it could cause with data and timing. Hopefully all that stuff has been worked out beforehand with Trakus and Equibase and also tested. I'm sure I'm jaded but every time a "new" temp rail position is used it is a timing disaster. I can only imagine what running in the wrong direction will do.
I have no idea how one would handicap using past performances from RH races.
Everything is different. Including the action of the horses. They have to learn to change to the opposite lead in the turns. They have to learn to have the rail on their left. Then their next time out may be a LH race.........
Oh well. I guess there are those who can pick 'em off that....I would stay away.
Is this some industry wide maneuver to disguise how bad horses are today by screwing up the timing all the time? :rolleyes: It's like the industry is in denial that we are talking racing where time matters. Are the only technological advances in this game medical ones?
fiznow
06-11-2016, 05:50 PM
You fig guys should try and make a fig at let's say Epsom downs.
That would drive you crazy.
Allan
PS- I love those reverse races
Well actually theyre doing Time Form ratings for English racing.
Five whole horses entered today, was a real thriller for fans and bettors alike. Fractions much quicker today at 5.5f.
Much longer runup for 5.5f compared to 5f plus the entire opening quarter is on the straightaway, whereas at 5f the elbow turn is split about evenly between the first and second quarters.
Two more #EuroTurf clockwise races this week.
Friday's third race at Woodbine (today, June 17,th)
Saturday's second race at Woodbine
The goal is at least 25 this season
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