$80,000 Win Bet on Stradavari -- CANCELLED?

[Track Phantom]

I sure hope there is an honest investigation into this. $80k bet early in the card to make Stradavari 3/5, apparently cancelled AFTER the pick 5 and pick 4 had gone off.

Personally, I don't have a problem with pool manipulation. However, it sure cheapens the overall product. Makes everything look silly.

[Grits]

I sure hope there is an honest investigation into this. $80k bet early in the card to make Stradavari 3/5, apparently cancelled AFTER the pick 5 and pick 4 had gone off.

Personally, I don't have a problem with pool manipulation. However, it sure cheapens the overall product. Makes everything look silly.

Considering the owners? Some of the biggest gamblers in the sport, probably the world. Coolmore's Tabor and Smith. What do you expect, TP?

[Ruffian1]

Watched the young man do it.
Happened at Laurel at 10:30.

[Grits]

Watched the young man do it.
Happened at Laurel at 10:30.

I figured you were out early, or yesterday, early evening. Looking for a motor grader. Sleuth that you is!!! :ThmbUp: :lol: :ThmbUp:

[cj]

Watched the young man do it.
Happened at Laurel at 10:30.

Who says it was canceled?

[Ruffian1]

Who says it was canceled?
Don't know. Read it here.
Was in the next line betting the 1st at Pimlico.

[thespaah]

I sure hope there is an honest investigation into this. $80k bet early in the card to make Stradavari 3/5, apparently cancelled AFTER the pick 5 and pick 4 had gone off.

Personally, I don't have a problem with pool manipulation. However, it sure cheapens the overall product. Makes everything look silly.
I have a HUGE problem with pool manipulation. And if there ever was an example, this is it.
Now, the question I have is this..Did the same bettor buy a bunch of P-5 tickets as well?.....

[camourous]

i heard it wasn't cancelled, but that the pools weren't merged yet, so the 3-5 odds shown on him were only from bets in Maryland

[Track Phantom]

i heard it wasn't cancelled, but that the pools weren't merged yet, so the 3-5 odds shown on him were only from bets in Maryland
I guess that's plausible but why would they only show the odds from MD when that is likely a fraction of the overall money bet? Smells....

[chenoa]

I guess that's plausible but why would they only show the odds from MD when that is likely a fraction of the overall money bet? Smells....

I'm with you on this one. Could be a wipeout at the windows!!

BOMBS AWAY!!! :cool:

[rastajenk]

Is it possible that yesterday's action was small enough where a drop like that could affect the odds that much, before the real wagering began? Did the :11: gradually rise back up to an expected level throughout the afternoon, or did it happen all at once, as in a cancellation? Some of you guys follow that kind of thing...what do you think?

Question for Ruffian: How long did that take to go down? I was a clerk once; you don't just punch in $80000 to win. And the cash...how long to count that out? I hope they did a skim right away. :cool:

If I were ever in a position to do something anywhere near that, I would ask for the most private location in the plant, not out there where someone like Ruffian could watch. :eek: With all due respect to Ruffian, of course.

[castaway01]

There's nearly 900K to win on the horse---what makes anyone say the bet was cancelled? What proof is there that it was?

[Ruffian1]

Is it possible that yesterday's action was small enough where a drop like that could affect the odds that much, before the real wagering began? Did the :11: gradually rise back up to an expected level throughout the afternoon, or did it happen all at once, as in a cancellation? Some of you guys follow that kind of thing...what do you think?

Question for Ruffian: How long did that take to go down? I was a clerk once; you don't just punch in $80000 to win. And the cash...how long to count that out? I hope they did a skim right away. :cool:

If I were ever in a position to do something anywhere near that, I would ask for the most private location in the plant, not out there where someone like Ruffian could watch. :eek: With all due respect to Ruffian, of course.

No offense taken. I am sitting in a secluded room off to the side of the clubhouse. Maybe 80 people tops.
Don't know how long he had been there but he bet with a40 year of experience teller. Remember him from way back.
He had just finished counting I guess because he had it in 4 bricks and handed it to another teller briefly and said feel that? Now you know what 80 grand feels like. Otherwise I would never have known. Just 3 tellers in this room.
Hope that helps.

[PaceAdvantage]

Now he's $80,000 poorer...I can commiserate, but only fractionally... :lol:

[rastajenk]

A tiny fraction, I'm sure

R1: Good answer.

This is the kind of thing that makes this game great. You run into stuff you just don't see in the day-to-day real world.

[charm city whizz]

No offense taken. I am sitting in a secluded room off to the side of the clubhouse. Maybe 80 people tops.
Don't know how long he had been there but he bet with a40 year of experience teller. Remember him from way back.
He had just finished counting I guess because he had it in 4 bricks and handed it to another teller briefly and said feel that? Now you know what 80 grand feels like. Otherwise I would never have known. Just 3 tellers in this room.
Hope that helps.


Ruffian you live down here in maryland? Sounds like you were sitting in tycoons, I really like that room, laurel has really turned into a great wagering venue in my opinion

[Grits]

He had just finished counting I guess because he had it in 4 bricks and handed it to another teller briefly and said feel that? Now you know what 80 grand feels like.

What a hayseed.. :faint:

[horses4courses]

My first thought when I heard about that bet:
"Man.....I wish I could book that wager" :lol:

[Ruffian1]

My first thought when I heard about that bet:
"Man.....I wish I could book that wager" :lol:

Lol. My buddy said, damn , can I hold 10 of it?

[ronsmac]

i heard it wasn't cancelled, but that the pools weren't merged yet, so the 3-5 odds shown on him were only from bets in MarylandIf that's true then they shouldn't show any early odds. I wasn't watching every second but about every 10 minutes or so i looked up and saw the odds. He seemed to go from around 3-2 up to 7-1 in a matter of minutes with the race still more than 2 hours away. Maybe i missed when he went to 3-1. 4-1. 5-1 etc...

[Ruffian1]

Ruffian you live down here in maryland? Sounds like you were sitting in tycoons, I really like that room, laurel has really turned into a great wagering venue in my opinion

Yes. I trained here for 27 years from 1976-2000. If you were around then, you bet on or against me. Hope you did well.
Still live near by and work in Bethesda , D.C. and wherever a real estate deal takes me locally. Don't follow the local scene anymore. Too busy and so many of my friends have moved away, retired or whatever.

Yes, I think that's what they called it, or maybe still do. Just to the right of the old bar that's been there forever.

[Ruffian1]

What a hayseed.. :faint:

Lol.

[whodoyoulike]

No offense taken. I am sitting in a secluded room off to the side of the clubhouse. Maybe 80 people tops.
Don't know how long he had been there but he bet with a40 year of experience teller. Remember him from way back.
He had just finished counting I guess because he had it in 4 bricks and handed it to another teller briefly and said feel that? Now you know what 80 grand feels like. Otherwise I would never have known. Just 3 tellers in this room.
Hope that helps.

I'm really curious and I've asked this ? in another thread.

Did the guy bring the cash in a paper bag?

[Tom]

Why would he carry cash?

[whodoyoulike]

Why would he carry cash?

The way I understood the post, he made the bet at a track or OTB. See my referenced post. Even my ADW (TVG) used to have a $10k per bet limit but, uncertain if it's still a restriction.

[Ruffian1]

I'm really curious and I've asked this ? in another thread.

Did the guy bring the cash in a paper bag?


You have to know that seeing some cash or whatever does not impress me in the least. That said:

I watched the clerk handling a bunch of cash. It was bundled in 4 bricks. They were talking back and forth after the fact. Or maybe he needed it counted and verified by someone else. I don't know. So what I saw, and what the clerk handed to the other clerk to say what he said, was in cash. All hundreds I assume to be in 4 even piles and all attached or together. Lesser bills would have been larger in quantity I assume. Not really a large cash guy though.

He did have a back pack, albeit a small one. Maybe it was in there. It's too much to have in your pocket for sure. Never saw any brown bags once I got out of the parking lot. Lol.
Because I didn't think anything of it until this thread popped up while I was at the track, I just don't know a whole lot more. Happened to check PA between races for the hell of it. Then jumped in when I knew something to share with everyone.
Again, it was at Laurel Race Course, in the clubhouse, off in a small room where only 3 tellers were. Not in the middle of multiple lines in a crowded area.

Hope that helps.

[whodoyoulike]

Thanks, it takes a lot of balls to carry that much cash in and around a track or OTB.

[Grits]

Years ago, I was at Belmont when a guy came into the, then, Virginia OTB, that I frequented, and put 30K down on Big Brown to win. A regular, I was on first name basis with the mutuel clerks at my OTB. ;) I never learned if he took his life or not when Kent pulled him up! I'm sorry I shouldn't giggle, I know. Crazy dude! Anyway, he was never seen again. At least, not before the Virginia Racing Commission and the Horseman's Group fell out. :lol:

[RunForTheRoses]

About 17 years ago I worked at Monmouth and I believe it was Haskell Day, after the race, this guy came up to me and made a huge show bet on Koana Gold. About 25 thousand. He gave me the bills with the wrappers on and told me not to break them.
KG won. Later on, I believe he worked his bankroll up to over 100 Gs and bet it to show on Gentleman...who ran out.

Contrary to what some of you bitter folk think the Teller occupation ain't all that great. Come up short and you owe.

[tanner12oz]

If that's true then they shouldn't show any early odds. I wasn't watching every second but about every 10 minutes or so i looked up and saw the odds. He seemed to go from around 3-2 up to 7-1 in a matter of minutes with the race still more than 2 hours away. Maybe i missed when he went to 3-1. 4-1. 5-1 etc...

it look like it got cancelled to me

[Grits]

About 17 years ago I worked at Monmouth and I believe it was Haskell Day, after the race, this guy came up to me and made a huge show bet on Koana Gold. About 25 thousand. He gave me the bills with the wrappers on and told me not to break them.
KG won. Later on, I believe he worked his bankroll up to over 100 Gs and bet it to show on Gentleman...who ran out.

Contrary to what some of you bitter folk think the Teller occupation ain't all that great. Come up short and you owe.

I don't know what you mean by bitter but I harbor no bitterness. At my same Virginia OTB, a clerk overpaid me by $400+ on a signer one afternoon. I didn't count the payout before leaving. Just put it in my handbag. I live 1 1/2 hours south. When I arrived home there was a message on my machine. She was crying. She explained her error and told me she had to pay the amount back. I called the next morning at opening and told them I was on the way to give the difference back and balance the clerk's drawer. They were floored. No one had ever done such... Needless to say, I explained, "I don't want money that's not mine". Too, she was a single mom. I have great respect for mutuel clerks. :)

[rastajenk]

If it had been some kind of electronic transaction, which I have never done, maybe I could be persuaded it could have been cancelled.

But since it was a time consuming cash deal, not only would it consume more time to back it out, the supervisor would have, could have, should have, said, "I will not be complicit in this kind of pool manipulation," produce some pre-printed verbage about All Bets Are Final, and wish him good luck. And that was probably made clear while the bet was going down in the first place.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I don't know what you mean by bitter but I harbor no bitterness. At my same Virginia OTB, a clerk overpaid me by $400+ on a signer one afternoon. I didn't count the payout before leaving. Just put it in my handbag. I live 1 1/2 hours south. When I arrived home there was a message on my machine. She was crying. She explained her error and told me she had to pay the amount back. I called the next morning at opening and told them I was on the way to give the difference back and balance the clerk's drawer. They were floored. No one had ever done such... Needless to say, I explained, "I don't want money that's not mine". Too, she was a single mom. I have great respect for mutuel clerks. :)

Kudos to you. Something similar happened to me when I was out in Vegas for the NHC. I was overpaid about $600 at the Bellagio. Didnt notice at the time since I had a little too much to drink and was on a roll. When I went back the next day the supervisor mentioned it to me but said I wasnt responsible for it. I did give it back, based strictly on principle and I know they have to cover any shortages.

Interestingly enough when I was there that same morning a guy in the next line who looked similar to me about 30 years old pulled out $100k in bricks to bet on a basketball game I think. They must handle alot of large bets there because it took only about two minutes to get the wager approved to be placed. I was amazed the guy was carrying around that kind of cash. I do remember asking what game and the guy lost. Ouch.

[RunForTheRoses]

I don't know what you mean by bitter but I harbor no bitterness. At my same Virginia OTB, a clerk overpaid me by $400+ on a signer one afternoon. I didn't count the payout before leaving. Just put it in my handbag. I live 1 1/2 hours south. When I arrived home there was a message on my machine. She was crying. She explained her error and told me she had to pay the amount back. I called the next morning at opening and told them I was on the way to give the difference back and balance the clerk's drawer. They were floored. No one had ever done such... Needless to say, I explained, "I don't want money that's not mine". Too, she was a single mom. I have great respect for mutuel clerks. :)

I didn't mean you Grits just that there have been some threads here on PA wherein tellers are held in esteem by some as barely half a step above child molesters
That was very nice and proper for you to return the money. Years ago I was living in Vegas and was hardly thriving and I cashed in an eleven dollar sports bet with $21. The teller gave me about $150 and I took it walked out and then thought about it. If I was just getting it from SAMs town I may have kept it but I knew the teller would have to pay or at the least it would be severely held against him so I gave the money back.

[Ruffian1]

I didn't mean you Grits just that there have been some threads here on PA wherein tellers are held in esteem by some as barely half a step above child molesters
That was very nice and proper for you to return the money. Years ago I was living in Vegas and was hardly thriving and I cashed in an eleven dollar sports bet with $21. The teller gave me about $150 and I took it walked out and then thought about it. If I was just getting it from SAMs town I may have kept it but I knew the teller would have to pay or at the least it would be severely held against him so I gave the money back.

If anyone has a poor opinion about tellers that has not done the job, or known someone that has and been told of the difficulty that goes with it , that tells me all I need to know about that person.

Tellers earn every penny they make. It's not an easy job by any stretch. I knew plenty of them in my day and there is nothing easy about what they have to deal with and be responsible for every day.

Anyone who would get over paid at the window , realize it, and not give it back, is a jerk IMO. That money isn't the tracks , it's the tellers and he/she will be working it off starting the next day.

Anyone who has ever been a teller has my utmost respect.

[burnsy]

If anyone has a poor opinion about tellers that has not done the job, or known someone that has and been told of the difficulty that goes with it , that tells me all I need to know about that person.

Tellers earn every penny they make. It's not an easy job by any stretch. I knew plenty of them in my day and there is nothing easy about what they have to deal with and be responsible for every day.

Anyone who would get over paid at the window , realize it, and not give it back, is a jerk IMO. That money isn't the tracks , it's the tellers and he/she will be working it off starting the next day.

Anyone who has ever been a teller has my utmost respect.


Thank you, I was going to say the same thing. I've seen people scream and holler at them. I saw one guy get tossed from the Racino Simulcast for abusing the teller. The jack ass waited until the horses were almost in the gate and started blurting out his numbers. He got shut out, ...its the tellers fault....so this jerk water says. If you don't like tellers, use a machine for crying out loud. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with the public. I always opted for work where I didn't have to. I did some "part time summer" job at the track (Saratoga) as a security guard. Did the 5 am-1pm shift just so I could work, go to the track and mostly deal with back stretch people, who are great, hard working, people. One Tuesday morning some douche snozzels come for breakfast. The track is naturally "dark ' on Tuesdays. Told them track was closed, they accused me of lying to them. There is a "no general public" sign posted in plain view. There was another woman, about 50, old enough to know better, actually tried to chase Angel Cordero down to sign her bobble head, while he was on a horse heading to work out! The horse almost reared, and I tossed her ass out so fast your head would spin. If you work at the track and don't kick someone in the ass........you are a better person than I could ever be. They should be paid more as far as I'm concerned. Some parts of the public are totally moronic, selfish and stupid! Put your bets in early or use the freaking machine and check your own freaking tickets.....that's so hard for some to do.......lazy, dumb, selfish......but its always the tellers fault...... :bang:

[Ruffian1]

Thank you, I was going to say the same thing. I've seen people scream and holler at them. I saw one guy get tossed from the Racino Simulcast for abusing the teller. The jack ass waited until the horses were almost in the gate and started blurting out his numbers. He got shut out, ...its the tellers fault....so this jerk water says. If you don't like tellers, use a machine for crying out loud. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with the public. I always opted for work where I didn't have to. I did some "part time summer" job at the track (Saratoga) as a security guard. Did the 5 am-1pm shift just so I could work, go to the track and mostly deal with back stretch people, who are great, hard working, people. One Tuesday morning some douche snozzels come for breakfast. The track is naturally "dark ' on Tuesdays. Told them track was closed, they accused me of lying to them. There is a "no general public" sign posted in plain view. There was another woman, about 50, old enough to know better, retarded, actually tried to chase Angel Cordero down to sign her bobble head, while he was on a horse heading to work out! The horse almost reared, and I tossed her ass out so fast your head would spin. If you work at the track and don't kick someone in the ass........you are a better person than I could ever be. They should be paid more as far as I'm concerned. Some parts of the public are totally moronic, selfish and stupid! Put your bets in early or use the freaking machine and check your own freaking tickets.....that's so hard for some to do.......lazy, dumb, selfish......but its always the tellers fault...... :bang:

:lol:

Very well said.

[mountainman]

Let's not get carried away here, folks. As with any profession, plenty of clerks are total creeps. And I mean TOTAL.

[ronsmac]

Let's not get carried away here, folks. As with any profession, plenty of clerks are total creeps. And I mean TOTAL.I don't know anyone who hasn't had multiple if not dozens of bad experiences with tellers. From the Nyra slow pay to the Pimlico I really don't want to be here to the Rillito i don't know my own machine teller. Rosecroft in the 90s had a woman who was so good that I wish she was getting paid by the customer. Everyone wanted to be in her line. She could handle two customers at the same time. Punching out one ticket while you tell her your bet.

[burnsy]

Let's not get carried away here, folks. As with any profession, plenty of clerks are total creeps. And I mean TOTAL.

Agreed, but that's why you have to read what I said......all of it. If you think the teller sucks, use a machine. Hell, I use them about 90% percent of the time. Can't blame the teller, make your own tickets....no excuses. That's the thing, half the jack asses that do bitch......couldn't do the job themselves, that's why they need a teller.


Like I also said....lazy. There is like zero reason to complain about tellers. I love them, when I see them, I'm cashing. Otherwise I don't really deal with them...... :)

[ronsmac]

For three years I used phone tellers only. They weren't even American. They never made one mistake and were unbelievably fast, precise and polite. I haven't made a bet with a teller at the track in over a decade , but when I did.,a good percentage of the time they were just going through the motions. I'd probably get sick of punching tickets for 6 hours a day also but those foreign tellers acted like it was the best job in the world.

[tanner12oz]

no amount of money could possibly ever get me interested in becoming a teller...id rather scrub toilets or work in a landfill

[ronsmac]

To get back on track. It's been 3 days since the 80k bet and mysterious odds change. Any new word? Was it just commingled money put in at once or was the bet cancelled? I've read articles and talked to 6 people and not one of them saw a steady climb in Stadavari's odds.

[Track Phantom]

no amount of money could possibly ever get me interested in becoming a teller...id rather scrub toilets or work in a landfill
Based on the customers I saw in Vegas, trust me, many of the tellers there already think they work in a landfill.

[whodoyoulike]

To get back on track. It's been 3 days since the 80k bet and mysterious odds change. Any new word? Was it just commingled money put in at once or was the bet cancelled? I've read articles and talked to 6 people and not one of them saw a steady climb in Stadavari's odds.

Don't know if the bet was cancelled but someone I think Ruffian1 says he may have been in the next line when the guy made the wager at Lrl in cash.

[barn32]

I don't know what you mean by bitter but I harbor no bitterness. At my same Virginia OTB, a clerk overpaid me by $400+ on a signer one afternoon. I didn't count the payout before leaving. Just put it in my handbag. I live 1 1/2 hours south. When I arrived home there was a message on my machine. She was crying. She explained her error and told me she had to pay the amount back.How did she know your number?