All the way from Las Vegas - Racing in Trouble

[MPRanger]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/columns-blogs/matt-youmans/horse-racing-losing-ground-bettors

[macguy]

Hastings Park matches those statistics bang on.

In the mid 1990s, Hastings Park had over 2000 horses jammed into the backstretch, and there was still a waiting list with trainers fighting for stalls. There were rules about how many two year olds a trainer could have stabled and there wasn't a maiden over 5 years old allowed on the grounds.

Fast forward to today, and the track struggles to find horses, sometimes having as few as 300 stabled on the backstretch, a scary number that many could argue is the bare minimum for holding a meet.

So far this year they've already cancelled a few cards, due to lack of entries. The weeks they have raced 2 days often see 7 races with short fields of 5 or 6. A far cry from the days of full fields and racing nearly everyday of the week.

Should the trend continue, I don't see horse racing sticking around in Vancouver for very much longer, it may be a matter of only a few more years.

[dilanesp]

Hastings Park matches those statistics bang on.

In the mid 1990s, Hastings Park had over 2000 horses jammed into the backstretch, and there was still a waiting list with trainers fighting for stalls. There were rules about how many two year olds a trainer could have stabled and there wasn't a maiden over 5 years old allowed on the grounds.

Fast forward to today, and the track struggles to find horses, sometimes having as few as 300 stabled on the backstretch, a scary number that many could argue is the bare minimum for holding a meet.

So far this year they've already cancelled a few cards, due to lack of entries. The weeks they have raced 2 days often see 7 races with short fields of 5 or 6. A far cry from the days of full fields and racing nearly everyday of the week.

Should the trend continue, I don't see horse racing sticking around in Vancouver for very much longer, it may be a matter of only a few more years.

It won't. There's two types of tracks that will survive in the simulcasting era:

1. "Vacation" tracks like Oaklawn, Monmouth, Saratoga, and Del Mar, with short meetings which are "special" and generate significant revenue from live attendance.

2. "Super-tracks", which offer a superior product through simulcasting that people want to bet on, such as the NYRA tracks, Santa Anita, and Churchill.

Everything else is in trouble for a very simple reason-- when you have widespread simulcasting and can bet on the Internet, most people have no interest in betting a small track with small fields of weak horses like Hastings.

We will eventually contract to that level, and the sport will survive and may even thrive once enough tracks close.

[HuggingTheRail]

Hastings Park matches those statistics bang on.

In the mid 1990s, Hastings Park had over 2000 horses jammed into the backstretch, and there was still a waiting list with trainers fighting for stalls. There were rules about how many two year olds a trainer could have stabled and there wasn't a maiden over 5 years old allowed on the grounds.

Fast forward to today, and the track struggles to find horses, sometimes having as few as 300 stabled on the backstretch, a scary number that many could argue is the bare minimum for holding a meet.

So far this year they've already cancelled a few cards, due to lack of entries. The weeks they have raced 2 days often see 7 races with short fields of 5 or 6. A far cry from the days of full fields and racing nearly everyday of the week.

Should the trend continue, I don't see horse racing sticking around in Vancouver for very much longer, it may be a matter of only a few more years.

Hey, they may ask you and I to run in the 7th race - we could probably beat most of the horses from Barn M, and we would still get the $300 participation money if we didn't. I can get 6.5f in about 12 minutes.....

[AndyC]

It won't. There's two types of tracks that will survive in the simulcasting era:

1. "Vacation" tracks like Oaklawn, Monmouth, Saratoga, and Del Mar, with short meetings which are "special" and generate significant revenue from live attendance.

2. "Super-tracks", which offer a superior product through simulcasting that people want to bet on, such as the NYRA tracks, Santa Anita, and Churchill.

Everything else is in trouble for a very simple reason-- when you have widespread simulcasting and can bet on the Internet, most people have no interest in betting a small track with small fields of weak horses like Hastings.

We will eventually contract to that level, and the sport will survive and may even thrive once enough tracks close.

Why would the sport survive or even thrive if enough tracks close? This isn't a case of a business expanding too fast and now seeing that it has to trim the fat. Tracks closing doesn't change the business model which works for absolutely nobody. Tracks closing doesn't create interest in the sport. Tracks closing will necessarily reduce the foal count resulting in fields of weak horses running at the surviving tracks.

[dilanesp]

Why would the sport survive or even thrive if enough tracks close? This isn't a case of a business expanding too fast and now seeing that it has to trim the fat. Tracks closing doesn't change the business model which works for absolutely nobody. Tracks closing doesn't create interest in the sport. Tracks closing will necessarily reduce the foal count resulting in fields of weak horses running at the surviving tracks.

If fewer tracks are operating, field size at remaining tracks should eventually expand. The "super-tracks", in particular, should be able to offer big purses (based on big handle) and draw big fields. Those big fields should in turn attract more betting. It will make this a bettable sport again.

But as long as there are a ton of second-tier tracks where trainers can go and enter 6 horse races, that's not going to happen.

[AndyC]

If fewer tracks are operating, field size at remaining tracks should eventually expand. The "super-tracks", in particular, should be able to offer big purses (based on big handle) and draw big fields. Those big fields should in turn attract more betting. It will make this a bettable sport again.

But as long as there are a ton of second-tier tracks where trainers can go and enter 6 horse races, that's not going to happen.

Fewer tracks are operating now and field size has not been expanding. It is wishful thinking to believe that the demand for racing will increase if there is less of it. Many former players I know have moved on from racing and surely won't return if the field size increases. There is a better chance that rotary dial phones make a comeback before horse racing does.

[macguy]

Hey, they may ask you and I to run in the 7th race - we could probably beat most of the horses from Barn M, and we would still get the $300 participation money if we didn't. I can get 6.5f in about 12 minutes.....

:D

Spent a lot of time walking horses up and down the shed rows of "Barn M" the better part of 20 years ago. It was my first real full time job out of high school.

I remember standing at the gap in the early mornings listening to all the old time trainers complaining about how the sport is dying and there's no future in horse racing. At that time Hastings was racing three days a week, sometimes 10 races a card, and still handling over $1 million on a Wednesday night. If only they were around to see what it's become now, they were certainly right.

I listened to their opinions and left the track, despite a part of me knowing that I could probably be very happy working there for the rest of my life.

There truly isn't anything like the atmosphere of the backstretch first thing in the morning.

[thespaah]

Fewer tracks are operating now and field size has not been expanding. It is wishful thinking to believe that the demand for racing will increase if there is less of it. Many former players I know have moved on from racing and surely won't return if the field size increases. There is a better chance that rotary dial phones make a comeback before horse racing does.
The tracks that are closing are those that cater to a certain type of horse. Low level claimers and State Breds that cannot compete vs open company.
My guess is as tracks close, those horses have nowhere to race as racing Secretaries are reluctant to write races for them.
For example, the stock which ran at Suffolk is unlikely to have a snowball's chance in July of competing in NY or NJ. Maybe Philly or Delaware but those stalls are taken.

[thespaah]

:D

Spent a lot of time walking horses up and down the shed rows of "Barn M" the better part of 20 years ago. It was my first real full time job out of high school.

I remember standing at the gap in the early mornings listening to all the old time trainers complaining about how the sport is dying and there's no future in horse racing. At that time Hastings was racing three days a week, sometimes 10 races a card, and still handling over $1 million on a Wednesday night. If only they were around to see what it's become now, they were certainly right.

I listened to their opinions and left the track, despite a part of me knowing that I could probably be very happy working there for the rest of my life.

There truly isn't anything like the atmosphere of the backstretch first thing in the morning.
I worked one summer at a training farm in Central NJ.....I loved it.
I was as green as they came, but dove into every book and manual I could to learn. Anyway, I used a line from Apocalypse Now that Robert DuVal said when he was talking about Napalm....I said "I love the smell of horse sh!t in the morning"....I really did.....Plus the sounds. Horses snorting. Shuffling their hooves in their stall bedding, sensing that full feed bucket was about to be hung in their stall. Cool stuff.

[castaway01]

The tracks that are closing are those that cater to a certain type of horse. Low level claimers and State Breds that cannot compete vs open company.
My guess is as tracks close, those horses have nowhere to race as racing Secretaries are reluctant to write races for them.
For example, the stock which ran at Suffolk is unlikely to have a snowball's chance in July of competing in NY or NJ. Maybe Philly or Delaware but those stalls are taken.

There really aren't many tracks closing though. It's more that the existing tracks still running are cutting race dates. Unfortunately, this is only keeping field sizes stagnant, not raising them as you would expect.

[thespaah]

There really aren't many tracks closing though. It's more that the existing tracks still running are cutting race dates. Unfortunately, this is only keeping field sizes stagnant, not raising them as you would expect.
Kind of a head scratcher, isn't it?
I have seen where some on here blame the horsemen for short fields. Claiming that because short fields give their horses a better chance of picking up a check, the trainer may elect to not enter when he or she knows the race will fill.
Appears to be conspiratorial, but not outside the realm of possibility.

[RXB]

Hastings Park matches those statistics bang on.

In the mid 1990s, Hastings Park had over 2000 horses jammed into the backstretch, and there was still a waiting list with trainers fighting for stalls. There were rules about how many two year olds a trainer could have stabled and there wasn't a maiden over 5 years old allowed on the grounds.

Fast forward to today, and the track struggles to find horses, sometimes having as few as 300 stabled on the backstretch, a scary number that many could argue is the bare minimum for holding a meet.

So far this year they've already cancelled a few cards, due to lack of entries. The weeks they have raced 2 days often see 7 races with short fields of 5 or 6. A far cry from the days of full fields and racing nearly everyday of the week.

Should the trend continue, I don't see horse racing sticking around in Vancouver for very much longer, it may be a matter of only a few more years.

Macguy, I started going to Hastings in the mid-80's when it was named Exhibition Park and at that time it was four days a week of racing, in fact five days in the summer as long as they could fill a Monday evening card. Averaged almost nine horses per race in those years.

Simulcasting is a double-edged sword for smaller tracks. Boosted revenue in the short and medium term but killed any buzz for live racing. And you're right, Hastings really can't cut the live racing down any farther. It's already at a bare minimum on two days per week. BC racing is at the edge of the cliff.

[AndyC]

The tracks that are closing are those that cater to a certain type of horse. Low level claimers and State Breds that cannot compete vs open company.
My guess is as tracks close, those horses have nowhere to race as racing Secretaries are reluctant to write races for them.
For example, the stock which ran at Suffolk is unlikely to have a snowball's chance in July of competing in NY or NJ. Maybe Philly or Delaware but those stalls are taken.

If breeding were an exact science we would have nothing but stakes horses, the problem is it isn't. In the process of breeding stakes horses there are many other horses bred that are the low level horses you refer to. The tracks closing are the minor leagues for racing. It is where up and coming jockeys, trainers, grooms, and sometimes even horses get their experience. Losing the minor leagues doesn't help the major leagues

[chenoa]

Macguy, I started going to Hastings in the mid-80's when it was named Exhibition Park and at that time it was four days a week of racing, in fact five days in the summer as long as they could fill a Monday evening card. Averaged almost nine horses per race in those years.

Simulcasting is a double-edged sword for smaller tracks. Boosted revenue in the short and medium term but killed any buzz for live racing. And you're right, Hastings really can't cut the live racing down any farther. It's already at a bare minimum on two days per week. BC racing is at the edge of the cliff.


Alberta is in the same boat. Northlands has said its pulling the pin on horse racing after 2016. The new racino down south is laughable. All the serious horseplayers are gone and they are left with the newbies and $2 WPS players, but as long as suckers are plugging their slots, that's all that really matters isn't it??

For that, I am grateful for internet/simulcasting.

[fiznow]

As a bettor I have to say that the big tracks are not always the best to make money. Often it's easier to find longshots at smaller tracks.

[macguy]

Alberta is in the same boat. Northlands has said its pulling the pin on horse racing after 2016. The new racino down south is laughable. All the serious horseplayers are gone and they are left with the newbies and $2 WPS players, but as long as suckers are plugging their slots, that's all that really matters isn't it??

For that, I am grateful for internet/simulcasting.

Went to visit "Century Downs" last fall.
We were very disappointed.

Had to navigate our way through 1000 slot machines to try and find a place to watch the races. Went through the doors to head out onto the apron to watch a race, and had to go all the way around the building to get back in, because the doors were locked from the outside. :bang:

Ended up watching the races from the restaurant (the food was really quite good) through tiny little windows where we could see approximately 4 seconds of each race live, we became very dependent on the infield big screen.

After buying our program they decided to announce that there are free programs and $2 betting vouchers available on the second floor "viewing gallery." Why would they charge us for programs when they are giving them away for free upstairs? Why wouldn't the lady that sold us the program tell us that we could get them for free upstairs AND a $2 betting voucher?

The approximately 4 tables that were up in the 2nd floor viewing gallery filled right up, so there was no chance of getting a spot there to watch, even though it wasn't that much better of a view than in the restaurant.

And I bet the Daily Double, and they never even posted the payout or announced it.

Felt like I spent the day at a Slots Parlor, and there just happened to be some racing "out back" that day. Took entirely way too much effort to try and watch and bet the races.

Not likely to ever go back. If that's the future of horse racing, then perhaps we're just just better off with no racing at all.

[macguy]

Macguy, I started going to Hastings in the mid-80's when it was named Exhibition Park and at that time it was four days a week of racing, in fact five days in the summer as long as they could fill a Monday evening card. Averaged almost nine horses per race in those years.

Simulcasting is a double-edged sword for smaller tracks. Boosted revenue in the short and medium term but killed any buzz for live racing. And you're right, Hastings really can't cut the live racing down any farther. It's already at a bare minimum on two days per week. BC racing is at the edge of the cliff.

BC racing indeed, we talk about Hastings Park, but it's easy to forget about the interior "B" circuit.

It wasn't that many years ago that there was still a very vibrant B circuit rotating between Kamloops, Vernon, Princeton, and Osoyoos.

The entire circuit is pretty much a piece of history now.
I think Desert Park in Osoyoos ran one day last year and is trying to make a bit of a comeback, but it doesn't sound like it will be anything more than a few days a year.

Glad I made the drive when I did, I got to see the horses race in Kamloops and Princeton on a number of occasions, but never got to see the tracks in Vernon or Osoyoos.

I also missed out on watching the horses run on Vancouver Island at Sandown Park. I remember one beautiful summer day thinking I should make the drive out to the island to watch the racing, but I got lazy and didn't want to bother sitting in a ferry line-up, my thought process at the time was "there's always next year." :faint:

[ultracapper]

Washington state should give some idea as to how contraction would play out. When Longacres was open, there were two other tracks in the state that ran "major" meets (major, for the local racing landscape anyhow), Yakima and Spokane. These three tracks were enough to support a rather vibrant fair circuit, and a minor league that stretched into mid-state Oregon and into Montana (Maherasred broke his maiden in Montana before winning the Gottstein Futurity and running in the Breeders Cup Juvenile).

Now we have Emerald Downs, a wiped out Portland Meadows, and damn near nothing else. It has taken Emerald Downs 20 years to reach the POTENTIAL of respectability, and even the strides it has made is no guarantee it will survive for an extended period. The breeding in the state has been on bed-ridden life support for 20 years. It actually amazes me that any racing can be held when taking the live foal numbers of the past decade into account.

Though Emerald Downs has no casino or card room, it is strictly a race track, there is a casino within spitting distance that happens to also have all ten of it's fingers in the ED pie. Casinos are no friends of the race tracks. The casinos are Greg Allman. They have the name recognition and everybody knows who they're going to see.The race tracks are Dickie Betts. If you know who he is you love him. But if you don't, his name means nothing. They're both good, but they don't play nice together.

What ultimately happens to Emerald Downs may be the predictive model of what contraction would do nationwide if corrective action isn't taken in exposing racing to the general masses, and the status quo is maintained. Either patience and determination win out, or certain death due to an inability to drum up committed fan interest. 20%/80%? Yep, make the line 4/1 patience and determination, 1/4, odds on, death. We need an upset.

[macguy]

Washington state should give some idea as to how contraction would play out. When Longacres was open, there were two other tracks in the state that ran "major" meets (major, for the local racing landscape anyhow), Yakima and Spokane. These three tracks were enough to support a rather vibrant fair circuit, and a minor league that stretched into mid-state Oregon and into Montana (Maherasred broke his maiden in Montana before winning the Gottstein Futurity and running in the Breeders Cup Juvenile).

Now we have Emerald Downs, a wiped out Portland Meadows, and damn near nothing else. It has taken Emerald Downs 20 years to reach the POTENTIAL of respectability, and even the strides it has made is no guarantee it will survive for an extended period. The breeding in the state has been on bed-ridden life support for 20 years. It actually amazes me that any racing can be held when taking the live foal numbers of the past decade into account.

Though Emerald Downs has no casino or card room, it is strictly a race track, there is a casino within spitting distance that happens to also have all ten of it's fingers in the ED pie. Casinos are no friends of the race tracks. The casinos are Greg Allman. They have the name recognition and everybody knows who they're going to see.The race tracks are Dickie Betts. If you know who he is you love him. But if you don't, his name means nothing. They're both good, but they don't play nice together.

What ultimately happens to Emerald Downs may be the predictive model of what contraction would do nationwide if corrective action isn't taken in exposing racing to the general masses, and the status quo is maintained. Either patience and determination win out, or certain death due to an inability to drum up committed fan interest. 20%/80%? Yep, make the line 4/1 patience and determination, 1/4, odds on, death. We need an upset.

Washington State and British Columbia, side by side, and thoroughbred horse racing in the two places is truly on identical paths. Unfortunately not for the better.

[dilanesp]

Washington state should give some idea as to how contraction would play out. When Longacres was open, there were two other tracks in the state that ran "major" meets (major, for the local racing landscape anyhow), Yakima and Spokane. These three tracks were enough to support a rather vibrant fair circuit, and a minor league that stretched into mid-state Oregon and into Montana (Maherasred broke his maiden in Montana before winning the Gottstein Futurity and running in the Breeders Cup Juvenile).

Now we have Emerald Downs, a wiped out Portland Meadows, and damn near nothing else. It has taken Emerald Downs 20 years to reach the POTENTIAL of respectability, and even the strides it has made is no guarantee it will survive for an extended period. The breeding in the state has been on bed-ridden life support for 20 years. It actually amazes me that any racing can be held when taking the live foal numbers of the past decade into account.

Though Emerald Downs has no casino or card room, it is strictly a race track, there is a casino within spitting distance that happens to also have all ten of it's fingers in the ED pie. Casinos are no friends of the race tracks. The casinos are Greg Allman. They have the name recognition and everybody knows who they're going to see.The race tracks are Dickie Betts. If you know who he is you love him. But if you don't, his name means nothing. They're both good, but they don't play nice together.

What ultimately happens to Emerald Downs may be the predictive model of what contraction would do nationwide if corrective action isn't taken in exposing racing to the general masses, and the status quo is maintained. Either patience and determination win out, or certain death due to an inability to drum up committed fan interest. 20%/80%? Yep, make the line 4/1 patience and determination, 1/4, odds on, death. We need an upset.

What I want to know is, who is Duane Allman in this situation?

[barn32]

When Longacres was open, there were two other tracks in the state that ran "major" meets (major, for the local racing landscape anyhow), Yakima and Spokane. These three tracks were enough to support a rather vibrant fair circuit, and a minor league that stretched into mid-state Oregon and into Montana (Maherasred broke his maiden in Montana before winning the Gottstein Futurity and running in the Breeders Cup Juvenile).

And don't forget that Gary Stevens was the top jockey at Les Bois Park (Boise Idaho) before he moved his tack to Longacres.

[ultracapper]

What I want to know is, who is Duane Allman in this situation?

Hollywood Park
Longacres
Bay Meadows
Colonial Downs
Suffolk Downs

and on and on

[dilanesp]

Hollywood Park
Longacres
Bay Meadows
Colonial Downs
Suffolk Downs

and on and on

Suffolk's coming back with a little bit of live racing this year.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016/05/05/suffolk-downs-hold-three-live-racing-events-this-year/M7095yYhe5b7oA1N2hzv4I/story.html

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Love Spokane, wish they still had racing about ten years ago. Used to be there for six months a year doing an audit. Loved the downtown area.