Prioress a Grade 1?

[Valuist]

:confused:

It won't be next year. Way too many Grade 1s for 3YOs.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Should be a prep for The Grade 1 Test at 7 panels
so a vote here for downgrading.

On the other hand, sprinters don't have that many Grade 1's
to compete in. So let it seem like I'm waffling on this one.:D

[Valuist]

But there's a lot tougher sprint races than this one. I think that horse who destroyed the field in the Allw 8th yesterday at Bel would've fit well here.

[The_Knight_Sky]

That would be Magical Illusion from the Jim 007 Bond stable.

I beg to differ as Thursday's race was at a flat mile.
If anything, she seems better suited to the stamina requiring Test
rather than the 6 furlong Prioress.

CHART: Belmont N1X allowance (http://www.tsnhorse.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?type=inc&country=USA&track=BEL&date=2004-07-01&race=8)

[Observer]

Originally posted by The_Knight_Sky
Should be a prep for The Grade 1 Test at 7 panels
so a vote here for downgrading.

On the other hand, sprinters don't have that many Grade 1's
to compete in. So let it seem like I'm waffling on this one.:D

I totally disagree with the first part of your statement. Each race should be graded on its own merits, not whether it is used as a prep into some other "more important" race.

[TravisVOX]

Nonsense.

Keep it at what its worth, bottom line.

I do believe that the Prioress is one of only 2 races, maybe even the only race, for 3YO fillies at 6 furlongs.

Great race, problem is, we have too many stakes period. Eliminate a lot of them and we get the field quality the races deserve...

ie -- the Suburban

[Valuist]

Two fillies in the race have ever reached the triple digit Beyer level, and one of those barely did it. This race is an insult to legit Grade 1 winners. I still stand by the assertion that the gradings should be assigned at the end of the year. This one won't be a Grade 1 next year.

[Buddha]

I somewhat agree with Travis and Valuist.

Travis makes point that there are too many stakes. In part I think he is right. The biggest part I wonder about is those races like teh 4 horse G1 they ran at Hollywood. Regardless of who is in the race, does a 4 horse field warrant Graded status. I dont think so. But that isnt something that you can predict when they write the stakes each year

Valuist says that they stakes should be graded at the end of teh year. the only problem with that is that every stakes could/would change each year, and there has to be prestige to it. I think there should either be less graded stakes, or make the requirements for the stakes better to warrant the higher grading.

[Valuist]

Buddha-

The gradings for each stakes are reviewed at the end of the year. Some get changed but it is after the fact. The 4 horse field stake you saw at Hol will likely be downgraded the following year but the grading for this year will not change. The Prioress will likely fall next year, possibly all the way to G3 but whoever wins this year can still claim they are a G1 winner, no matter how deceptive that will be.

[TravisVOX]

Interesting discussion we've got going.

You can't say on January 1st we'll judge whether the January 1st race one year ago was a grade 3, or 2 or 1. What about the horse that wins that race, and is retired? What do they put to potential mares..."This horse won a yet-to-be-graded race. We think it's a 1, but grapevine says 2. Heck, we don't know."

I don't see that happening.

ALSO...

What is a grade one? Do fillies have to run 100's for a grade 1? So therefore, colts that run 101 aren't really grade 1, they'd have to be at least 105, or about the difference from males to females?

Tough call.

[Valuist]

Travis-

I would say a race where exactly one filly has run a 101 or higher is not worthy of a Grade 1. And because its a prep for the Test isn't enough. Its quite possible the Test won't be worthy of Grade 1 status either. Getting back to the Prioress, I saw a recent Classified Allowance at Churchill recently that was tougher than the Prioress and I'm sure Bel and Hol had classified allowances that were in the ballpark, if not tougher than the Prioress.

[Valuist]

Amazing they kept the race a Grade 1. So what happens this year? You get a field totally unworthy of a Grade 1. The problem with making a Grade 1 sprint for 3YO fillies is, what Grade 1 3YO fillies that are out there are not wasting their time in 6 furlong races. A couple years from now, a yearling out of Acey Deucey will be sold at an inflated price, with the party line being "out of a Grade 1 winner". Grade 1 is designation only.

[RXB]

It sucks, Valuist, but we'll have to get used to it. (Or drop out of the game. Which is an option that I actually think about now, given the way that things are going in horse racing.)

Everything is being geared toward younger horses and shorter distances.

[Valuist]

I would say the edition this year was a little better but still not worthy of a Grade 1. At least somebody had run over a 100 Beyer in this year's edition. But seeing how this race wasn't downgraded after two very weak runnings is just further evidence that the Graded Stakes Committee just rubber stamps its ratings without looking at any evidence.

I think the Prioress can keep its status as the most overrated grading on the U.S. racing calendar.

[classhandicapper]

On the other hand, sprinters don't have that many Grade 1's to compete in. So let it seem like I'm waffling on this one.:D

One of the reasons there are fewer Grade 1s for sprinters is that the owners/trainers of most versatile horses try to stretch their horses out. There is more prestige and breeding value in winning the best races going a route of ground.

Pprints tend to be dominated by the pool of horses that can only sprint.

Routes contain the best routers, the best milers trying to stretch out, and the best versatile horses that can do it all.

Years back the best power sprinters/milers used to have a significant edge over the best pure sprinters. I think the gap has narrowed a bit in the last decade or so. Maybe the breeding has increased the percentage of pure high quality sprinters out there.

All that said, the Prioress should not be a Grade 1, but the Test and Kings Bishop probably still should be. In years back (before everyone got wimpy and started running their horses once every 6 weeks), the Test used to draw some of the very best routers and sprinters and the ones that could stretch out would go straight to the Alabama. Those were the days!!!!

[Valuist]

I have no problem with the Test and Kings Bishop being Grade 1s. They were worthy of it. I think Ghostzapper got beat in the Kings Bishop a few years ago. I believe the betting favorite in this year's Prioress was coming out of a FNW1X.

[Tom]

Used to be, the criteria for being a contender in a G1 was having won two previous G1 or G2 races( according to Quinn). Lots of luck these days.
I agree - far too many grades stakes.
My opinion, and I was wrong once before, is eliminate all G3 races - what the heck purpose do they serve? Cut donw the number of G1 and G2 races to the point wehre horses have to race agains other graded stake winners to get any black type. Today, horses can win G1 races and never face a G1 horse.
Invasor - good example. Won two in a row, looks good, but he has not faced a solid G1 horse in shape yet.

[classhandicapper]

The criteria for a legit Grade 1 for 3YOs has to be bit lighter than for older horses. That's becomes obvious when you realize there are Grade 1s for 2YOs that are legitimately NW1 or NW2 ALw races for the most impressive allowance amd maiden winners. When you move into the 3YO season, the best horses should have seperated themselves further by winning some minor stakes, but you are still going to get some impressive limited winners in those races because the gap is not that huge yet and most of the legit Grade 1 horses (who are not really Grade 1 relative to older horses) stretch out.