Where are the Sox fans?

[cj]

Yanks break out the broom, things have sure changed since April!

P.S. This post brought to you by a disgruntled Os fan!

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, that Yankee pitching sure is bringing them down, isn't it? I can't hear anything in NY these days, above the din of Yankee fans cursing the names of Clemens and Pettitte......NOT!

By the way, is Derek Jeter not the biggest "gamer" in the game? What a freakin awesome catch. The guy flat out HAS to win! It's in his DNA.

[Valuist]

.....I thought you meant WHITE Sox. There are TWO different Sox teams.

[cj]

Do they still wear shorts? :D

[sq764]

No, Derek Jeter is not the biggest gamer in the game..

Jim Thome is..

My disgust for how bad the Sox are playing has been relived by my Phillies finally taking over first place..

As much as I enjoy Sox/Yanks in the AL Champ, I would LOVE to see Phils/Yanks in the series..

[cj]

Jim Thome? Come on sq, I like a good sports debate as much as the next guy, but he's no Derek Jeter. I think you actually have to win an important game before you get that tag.

[sq764]

I think your rationale is a little off.. Randy Johnson is one of the gamest competitors I have ever seen and he has never 'won an important game'..

[sq764]

I totally forgot about Johnson being on the Diamondbacks and winning the WS...

I just don't think you measure a 'gamer' by wins and losses, you measure it by their effort. There are plently of gamers on horrible teams..

[wolsons]

"No, Derek Jeter is not the biggest gamer in the game..Jim Thome is "


HAHAHAHAHAHA

[cj]

To me, a gamer is a guy who really steps it up in the big games. Thome may very well be, but he really hasn't had a chance to show it yet. It's also not just about slugging the ball 500 feet, its about the play Jeter made yesterday, and the one he made to beat the A's with that relay toss. That is still the greatest defensive play I have ever seen.

For the record, I hate the Yankees, and I love Jim Thome! Along with Mike Piazza, they are my two favorite hitters.

[sq764]

"That is still the greatest defensive play I have ever seen."

CJ, you obviously have never seen Brooks Robinson or Mike Schmidt or Ozzie Smith play. If you did, you would have never said that abover comment..

Jeter is a good fielder and an above average hitter.. He plays hard and helps his team win.. But there are 50 players better than Jeter, but they don't have the good fortune of playing with so much surrounding talent..

[cj]

I have seen all three of the above play. They all made spectacular plays. What sets the Jeter play apart was not just the physical ability, but the presence he had to get that ball. To even be in the right place was incredible.

[sq764]

Did you ever watch the 1980 World Series, game 6, Phillies/Royals?

Pop up near the 1B dugout, Bob Boone drops it, but Pete Rose was right there to catch it out of his mitt... Now THAT was presence of mind..

It's called baseball instinct and some players have it, not a lot of them though...

Don't get me wrong.. I think Jeter has GREAT baseball instincts.. He is always thinking ahead.. I just cannot say he is the gamest or gamers.. Although he is up there..

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
I have seen all three of the above play. They all made spectacular plays. What sets the Jeter play apart was not just the physical ability, but the presence he had to get that ball. To even be in the right place was incredible.

That catch along with that play he made at the plate in the World Series a few years back........make him one hell of a good one in my book. Not sure who the best would be ever.........? But enjoyed watching all of them. Especially Rose.

[Maxspa]

Suff,
Where are you? I thought sure Suff would have a comment!
Maxspa

[cryptic1]

Though I've only seen the play on television, Willie Mays made
an unbelievable catch in the world series on a smash to
centre field. Devon White made a similiar grab in the 92 series
for the blue jays. Both were running full out to the centre field
fence and caught the balls without turning. Both were
terrific plays.

cryptic1

[sq764]

PA, good thing the Yanks don't play the Mets in Shea often.. Good Lord..

Yanks pitching gives up 21 runs in 2 games to the 2nd worst hitting team in the Major Leagues.. Ouch..

[Tee]

Originally posted by sq764


Yanks pitching gives up 21 runs in 2 games to the 2nd worst hitting team in the Major Leagues.. Ouch..

U know that saying "Every dog has his day."

[Storm Cadet]

Hey he was good when his Bosox beat us up back in April...don't bang him now...beat up on Nomar for not playing that third game!

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by sq764
PA, good thing the Yanks don't play the Mets in Shea often.. Good Lord..

Yanks pitching gives up 21 runs in 2 games to the 2nd worst hitting team in the Major Leagues.. Ouch..

You gotta hang your hat somewhere I guess.

We took 2 of three at the stadium, they have taken 2 of three so far at their place. Big whoop.

[sq764]

Being beaten is one thing.. Giving up 21 runs to one of the worst offenses in the Major Leagues is another...

PA, I will made you a ridiculous bet... You name the winning wager...

Sox WILL BEAT the Yanks in the AL Championship this year... I know I am nuts.. I know you are going to say the Sox have to make it to the playoffs first, blah blah blah...

You let me know if this is something that interests you.. if so, lets
agree on a wager...

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't know what the Yankees have to do to impress you. I guess a 7.5 game lead in the AL East along with the best record in baseball isn't enough.

You're basing your opinion of the team by their last two games? You do realize that the Red Sox, as of today, don't even qualify as the AL Wild Card team if the season ended right now.

The Sox are 2.5 games away from third place in the AL East. I'm not sure why they are getting as much credit as they are.

It's fitting that players such as Damon and Pedro are letting their hair grow, and a guy like Millar is bleaching his hair. Because much like the "hair bands" of the '80s and early '90s, the Sox are looking more and more like Style over Substance with every passing inning.

I betcha this quote from Damon is going to haunt him the rest of the season....he said this back in February:

"I don't think we want to compare ourselves to the Yankees. We'll do everything the opposite of what they do."

Johnny, it looks like you guys are living up to that promise.

As for a bet, I don't know what a fitting wager would be. I don't know how practical it would be either. But, if you and I were friends in real life, and you wanted to bet me that that Sox would beat the Yankees in the playoffs, I'd gladly take you up on the offer.

[sq764]

First off, I am not basing this on 2 or 3 games, that's ridiculous..

The Yankees are playing well right now, no doubt. The Sox are playing horribly. With that being said, there should be a ton of optimism considering where the Sox are now, considering how bad they have played.

Sox have a better pitching staff, comparable hitting, just very poor fielding right now..

I know you love the Yanks and all, but even you know the better team didn't win the series last year.. Yanks were not the better team, Sox beat themselves..

[Suff]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I

As for a bet, I don't know what a fitting wager would be. I don't know how practical it would be either. But, if you and I were friends in real life, and you wanted to bet me that that Sox would beat the Yankees in the playoffs, I'd gladly take you up on the offer.

bring your check book to Saratoga

[Suff]

Originally posted by Maxspa
Suff,
Where are you? I thought sure Suff would have a comment!
Maxspa

I missed this thread until tonight...

I'm in major league pain over the Red Sox. Deep, tossing in my sleep pain,,,

and getting swept in NY , especiaLLY ugly as it was... Ruined my week. I sat quietly at the shipwreck and let out small moans of pain as i stared blankly at the TV..

[Bubbles]

Suff...

Look on the bright side. The Mets brought out the brooms on the Yanks last weekend, avenging the Bombers' sweep of you guys.

Speaking of the Mets' sweep, what was Torre thinking when he brought Tanyon Sturtze out to pitch the 9th of the Saturday game? The Yankees have a deep bullpen, not a lot of All-Stars, but certainly better guys than Sturtze. Two walks, a hit batsman, and a blown play at the plate.

This wasn't the only bad choice made by a Yankee that day. How about Posada looking at three straight strikes against Franco, with the bases loaded? They may have been close pitches, but you don't give the ump an opportunity to beat you. If you ground out or pop one up, at least you went down fighting. Posada looked like he expected a pitch dead over the plate.

The Yankees had a bunch of opportunities to win that game, and they blew every one, plain and simple.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Bubbles
Suff...

Look on the bright side. The Mets brought out the brooms on the Yanks last weekend, .

your selling picks/.???? Jarrod,,, Come see me at toga... I;ll make ou 800 a week,, don'nt sell for less

[Valuist]

As for the original question, they're in hiding. The CUBS really took it to them this past weekend.:D

[sq764]

Mussina put in yet another fantastic effort tonight..

6 IP. 7 ER, 2 more homers, to the TIGERS!!

PA, you were right.. His 5.20 ERA is simply dazzling.. You guys are lucky to have him..

[PaceAdvantage]

Amazingly, still 7 (SEVEN) games up, still best record in baseball....

Must be doing it with smoke and mirrors....


PS. if you're going to have a slump, now's the time to do it...

[cj]

Originally posted by sq764
Mussina put in yet another fantastic effort tonight..

6 IP. 7 ER, 2 more homers, to the TIGERS!!

PA, you were right.. His 5.20 ERA is simply dazzling.. You guys are lucky to have him..

You were awfully silent when he won 9 in a row.

By the way, are you ever going to pick a team and stick with them? I'm starting to think you flip flop worse than Kerry.

[sq764]

CJ, sorry, I was caught up with watching my Phillies take command of the NL East.. It's just fun to watch them playing so well right now.

I flip flop? I was born in the Philly area and have lived here for 31 years, so they are obviously my hometown team, my team at heart.

The Sox are a team I started to like during the Clemens era..

Sorry, I didn't know there was a rule that you could only like 1 team.

[cj]

A true fan is devoted to his team. You were quiet as a church mouse when Philly was in last in April and talked all about Boston. Now that the Phillies are up, you stick to them or knocking the Yankees. How the hell you can knock a team with a 7 game lead is beyond me.

If the Phillies had Mussina, they'd be World Series contenders. Right now, I don't think they are.

[sq764]

Phillies don't want mussina.. Why would they? They have a better pitching staff without him and have a better staff than the Yankees..

Last place in APRIL??? Who cares who's in last place with 150 games left.. You just have no clue about baseball..sorry.

[cj]

Originally posted by sq764
Phillies don't want mussina.. Why would they? They have a better pitching staff without him and have a better staff than the Yankees..

Last place in APRIL??? Who cares who's in last place with 150 games left.. You just have no clue about baseball..sorry.

Yeah, I'm sure the Phillies couldn't use Mussina...and I have no clue.

I see now why you have two teams. Gives you a better chance to talk crap. You were the one who started with how important the Yankees-Sox series was in April while never mentioning the Phillies.

Phillies, Eagles, Sixers, Flyers, Villanova, no college football to speak of...I can see why you would want two teams.

[Bubbles]

A BETTER STAFF THAN THE YANKEES????????

No way on Earth.

Mussina
Vasquez
Brown
Contreras
(Revolving fifth guy)

I'm no Yankee fan, and I never will be, but to knock their pitching staff is kinda ridiculous. Right there, you have two great pitchers in Mussina and Brown, and two stars in the making in Vasquez and Contreras.

If you can prove to me that the Phillies have a better staff, I'll retract what I just said.

P.S.: Tell your Phils to look over their shoulder for the Mets. They've won four in a row and are on a serious roll. ;)

[cj]

Please don't try to compare ERA between the two leagues. With the DH, there is simply no comparison.

By the way, a 2 game lead, with 4th place 2.5 games out, is hardly taking command.

[cj]

The Phillies team ERA is 4.35, the Yankees 4.50. I think that .15 difference is more than explained by the pitcher or pinch hitter the Phils face four times a game. Rivera is the trump card.

Milton is nice at 11-2, but the 4 and 1/2 run ERA suggests some smoke and mirrors has helped. After him, you can't find a guy on the staff with over 6 wins.

[sq764]

Bubbles, 2 things:

1) Here is proof, I will be waiting for the retraction.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_sortable_team_stats.jsp?baseballScope=mlb&statType=2&sitSplit=&timeSubFrame=2004&groupByTeam=true&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1

2) The Mets have not won 4 in a row, the Phillies beat them on Monday.

[sq764]

CJ, you are something else my man..

You use facts to prove SOME of your points, then reject FACTS on points you don't want to agree with..

I do appreciate the laughs, CJ Kerry..

[cj]

Originally posted by sq764
Bubbles, 2 things:

1) Here is proof, I will be waiting for the retraction.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_sortable_team_stats.jsp?baseballScope=mlb&statType=2&sitSplit=&timeSubFrame=2004&groupByTeam=true&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1

2) The Mets have not won 4 in a row, the Phillies beat them on Monday.

THAT'S YOUR PROOF!? ROFLMAO.

[Bubbles]

1) That's ERA. CJ, in a post above, took the words right out of my mouth. There is no DH, so it's impossible to compare. Not only that, but Milton's the only guy on your staff with over 6 wins.

2) Sorry, my info was wrong. Thought they had Monday off. But not. Still, 4 out of the last 5, and two games out, with a team most reporters thought would finish in last place in the NL East is not shabby at all whatsoever.

[sq764]

Hey, sorry the facts make you ROFLYAO...

That's a ranking of the pitching staffs in baseball. I am sure you will have some ridiculous reason why this doesn't apply. As always, waiting for the laughs

[sq764]

1) Bubbles, that is funny.. (Ironically) The Red Sox have a better ERA than 11 National League teams.. And I wasn't sure if you knew but THEY PLAY IN THE AMERCAN LEAGUE, with a DH!! (CJ you are going to have to get even more creative in explaining this one)

2) Mets are playing well so far.. I still think they will finish near last though.

[cj]

Originally posted by sq764
Hey, sorry the facts make you ROFLYAO...

That's a ranking of the pitching staffs in baseball. I am sure you will have some ridiculous reason why this doesn't apply. As always, waiting for the laughs

I already knew what lame stat you would use.

I think it is hilarious that I refuted it before you even posted. Anyone with ANY baseball knowledge would know that ERA in the National League should be lower than American League ERA's, and by more than .15 runs per game.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by sq764
You just have no clue about baseball..sorry.

Uh oh. better be careful. This might be construed as an "attack" or a "degradation"

[Bubbles]

Originally posted by sq764
1) Bubbles, that is funny.. (Ironically) The Red Sox have a better ERA than 11 National League teams.. And I wasn't sure if you knew but THEY PLAY IN THE AMERCAN LEAGUE, with a DH!!

Hmm...the Red Sox...

Pedro
Schilling
Wakefield
Lowe
Kim

Hmm...I THINK they have a reason for their low ERA.

[sq764]

And I knew you would have an excuse why the stats lied..

I can't argue with you about this if you don't want to accept fact. Otherwise, it's pure conjecture on your part..

I can say the Tigers are the best team in baseball and you could show me their record and I could just make an excuse why their record isn't reflective of their team.

[sq764]

Bubbles, what point exactly are you trying to make? With a very good pitching staff, an American league team can have a lower ERA than most NL teams?

Or that just because you are an AL team, you cannot have a top 10 ERA in MLB?

Either way, I agree with both of those points.. Nice job.

[Valuist]

You're all wrong. The best rotation in baseball?

Prior-Zambrano-Wood-Maddux-Clement

A sure Hall of Famer is our 4th starter and our 5th starter will command about $8-10 million a year on the open market next year. The Yankees and Astros have good rotations but I'll take ours over any of them......assuming Dusty doesn't blow all their arms out w/ridiculous pitch counts.

[cj]

I never said the Yankees were the best, just better than the Phillies.

So sq, how much does the DH inflate ERA? I'm curious to hear what you think. With your posts, it would seem to be zero.

[sq764]

Only problem I see with that staff is being overpitched, as you mentioned.

Woods is dominating, but he will continue to have injury problems the rest of his career..

Prior seems to get injured too, but weird ones. He also gets rattled very easily, but I am sure that will change with age and maturity.

I still think pitcher for pitcher, the Red Sox do have the best pitching staff in baseball.. Problem right now is that they lead the league in error, which is killing them.

[Bubbles]

Originally posted by sq764
And I knew you would have an excuse why the stats lied..

I can't argue with you about this if you don't want to accept fact. Otherwise, it's pure conjecture on your part..

I can say the Tigers are the best team in baseball and you could show me their record and I could just make an excuse why their record isn't reflective of their team.

No points were trying to be made. Was merely stating why the Red Sox have a lower ERA than the 11 teams you specified. With those five starters, most accomplishments less than that would be unacceptable. ;)

[Bubbles]

Whoops, quoted wrong post. Sorry...

[Valuist]

I've heard the rule of thumb to compare AL to NL ERAs is a 1/2 run. The DH adds about a half run to AL ERAs.

Schilling and Pedro may still be the top 2, although Pedro isn't nearly as dominating as he used to be. The Cubs definitely have the best 4th and 5th starters. Prior is considered the number 1 but Zambrano is the one pitching in the All-Star game. Barrett, who catches them all says Zambrano has the best stuff on the staff.

[sq764]

Stricltly using runs scored so far, the AL is averagin 5.01 runs per game, the NL is averaging 4.71 runs per game..

Of course, these are only runs, not earned runs.. But based on runs alone, the spread seems to be around .30..

What that means when comparing NL to AL pitching staffs is tough to determine though.

With that being said, the Yankees and Phillies pitching staffs are closer in production and effectiveness than we even know.

[sq764]

Well, I think the gap got a little bigger in the ERA department as the Yankees pitching gave up 10 more runs this afternoon..

I think if they are bright, they will take this Pallsy guy behind the shed and put him out of his mysery. He's just awful, had one good start period..

[sq764]

Well I guess Brett Myers has been watching Mussina pitch of late.. He again lasted 3 innings and gave up 6 runs.. He has some AAA ball in his near future..

[cj]

Umm, maybe not...Mets 10, Phillies 1

[Suff]

The sox are back to knocking the spit off the ball. Flat out knocking the beejesus out of some decent teams... We made mockerys of the A's and Rangers this week. We're back to putting NFL type numbers... winning 11-0, 11-3, 14-6, 12-2

we're 6 back... if we can get 1 more..maybe 2 and get within 4 games by the break.,,, we're in business

Last year I had my Red Sox stuff up at Toga... I was shocked when PA showed up wearing a yankee cap... I thought he did it to aggravate me... but he says he wears it all the time...

I have a surprise for him this year. I have a full compliment of "yankee hater" gear that I picked up...

he he...

have you seen the Yankee hater gear? I think I'll bring some extra hats for the guys too!!!

[sq764]

What impresses me is what Damon is doing.. You knew Manny would have another monster year, but Damon has gone nuts.. I think yesterday was his 7th straight multi-hit game.

Just make it to the playoffs and they'll be fine.. Yanks pitching is simply weak right now..

[PaceAdvantage]

It's always good to have hope. Hope is good.

It's comforting to know you're content to be "only" six back.

And Suff, here I was all along thinking you wore all that Red Sox stuff last year just to piss ME off!!

Sheeesh....who would have thunk it?

You Sox fans are too sensitive....

[sq764]

There is no need for hope.. Bottom line is that once you make the playoffs, it doesn't matter if you are 81-81 or 120-42, you are both sitting in the same spot..

(I am still trying to figure out the Yankee ego from last year. Do you remember that you did not win the WS?)

[cj]

The Yankees have no reason to fear the Red Sox. There is too much history there. Until the Red Sox actually step up and beat the Yankees (or anyone else, even) when it matters, they will not get that respect.

[sq764]

I don't think the Red Sox are searching or yearning for that respect..

I think the Yankees know the team they most fear, just as they did last year. Yanks fans can say all they want about not fearing the Sox, and the curse and blah blah.. But even Yanks fans know they were thoroughly outplayed last year in the playoffs and if not for a poor decision, the outcome likely would have been different.

[cj]

The team they should fear most is Florida :)

[sq764]

Florida probably won't even make the playoffs this year..