NYRA Looking at Synthetic Track for Aqueduct

[Rollingpk3]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/211315/nyra-looking-at-synthetic-track-for-aqueduct

[Redbullsnation]

Synthetic or synthetic? Don't mean a damn thing since Aquaduct barely has turf races...

[Stillriledup]

so horses will get used to dirt than synth than back to dirt, maybe horsemen can chime in on this, ive heard that while the synthetic doesn't have as many catastrophic injuries, they have a lot of other injuries that maybe aren't life threatening, and the constant switching back between surfaces can't be good for the horse population in general, not to mention its going to throw a monkey wrench into the handicapping process.

maybe they should try being more vigilant with which horses get to run and not let the borderline horses enter until they're ready to go from a soundness standpoint, but maybe that would be too easy?

[Secondbest]

Which track? Inner or Main?

[gheuks]

Inner

[fiznow]

I'm a supporter of synthetic surfaces because they indeed decrease the number of horses dying on the race track. Here is a link with reports about fatal injuries for several tracks. http://jockeyclub.com/default.asp?section=Advocacy&area=11
Concerning Aqueduct the number of fatilities on the main dirt track is quite low (1.38 per 1000 starts in 2015) while the number on the inner dirt is quite high (2.45 per 1000 starts in 2015). In comparison the numbers for some synthetic tracks: PID 1.00, TP 1.20, WO 1.16, GG 1.37 per 1000 starts in 2015.
Generally the rate of fatal injuries in Thoroughbred races in the USA dropped 14% in 2015 from the previous year. There were 1.18 fatalities per 1,000 starts on synthetic surfaces, 1.22 on grass courses, and 1.78 on dirt tracks.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/210085/equine-fatality-rate-down-14-in-2015
I'm not one of these who say, boycott races on dirt. I still bet them but recently bet more races on turf and synthetic surfaces.

[cj]

I'm a supporter of synthetic surfaces because they indeed decrease the number of horses dying on the race track. Here is a link with reports about fatal injuries for several tracks. http://jockeyclub.com/default.asp?section=Advocacy&area=11
Concerning Aqueduct the number of fatilities on the main dirt track is quite low (1.38 per 1000 starts in 2015) while the number on the inner dirt is quite high (2.45 per 1000 starts in 2015). In comparison the numbers for some synthetic tracks: PID 1.00, TP 1.20, WO 1.16, GG 1.37 per 1000 starts in 2015.
Generally the rate of fatal injuries in Thoroughbred races in the USA dropped 14% in 2015 from the previous year. There were 1.18 fatalities per 1,000 starts on synthetic surfaces, 1.22 on grass courses, and 1.78 on dirt tracks.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/210085/equine-fatality-rate-down-14-in-2015
I'm not one of these who say, boycott races on dirt. I still bet them but recently bet more races on turf and synthetic surfaces.

Always found these stats to be fitted. Dirt tracks can be every bit as safe. All the synthetic tracks were brand new with fresh bases. If you compare them to brand new dirt tracks I suspect you won't find much difference in the end.

[EMD4ME]

Doubt this 1 little voice counts as much but if they go synthetic, not $1 of my money will go into their pools. I am not exaggerating at all.

I absolutely detest wagering on that used candles/condoms/wax/fake crap.

[cj]

Doubt this 1 little voice counts as much but if they go synthetic, not $1 of my money will go into their pools. I am not exaggerating at all.

I absolutely detest wagering on that used candles/condoms/wax/fake crap.

Not to mention when they switch back to dirt current form reads go out the window for the most part.

[EMD4ME]

Not to mention when they switch back to dirt current form reads go out the window for the most part.

That's a part of the reason.

For me, all the fundamentals of pace, trips, saving ground on the inner, biases, dynamics etc ALL go out the door on that polycrap.

Maybe I'm just a stupid horseplayer who can't adapt to polycrap. Either way, I don't care. It's not for me. I tried. Lost money. Saw little logic. Smart enough to know, I can't bet it and be good at it.

[EMD4ME]

Which will then cause me to bet less money at AQU in April, as "form" will be unknown.

Less meaning 80% less.

[Secondbest]

Doubt this 1 little voice counts as much but if they go synthetic, not $1 of my money will go into their pools. I am not exaggerating at all.

I absolutely detest wagering on that used candles/condoms/wax/fake crap.
I'm with you 100%.Now that keeneland and SA get rid of artificial turf the NYRA schmucks want to put it in. What's worse is in the article they say Belmont may also switch.

[EMD4ME]

After watching the Ortiz clan and others destroy the integrity/perception of NY racing, I don't care if they bring on Polytrack at AQU and BEL.


I'll just stop betting NYRA all together. Not a threat. Just business.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Horrible idea - Cali reversed course - why repeat their mistakes? I understand the weather differences, but I still hate the idea.

[Secondbest]

If artificial turf is such a great idea why don't They do it at their beloved saratoga?

[classhandicapper]

I think it makes more sense to switch to synthetic when the weather, safety concerns, and economics suggest it makes sense and you are going to change all the tracks on your circuit to synthetic. I suspect the complications of way more surface switches are going to turn a lot of horse players off. Not that I bet NYRA much anymore anyway, but this won't help. I thought they were considering it for training tracks.

[SandyW]

If NYRA does switch any of it's tracks to synthetic they can kiss their handle goodbye. It did not work in Calif. and it will not work in New York.

[classhandicapper]

If they go through with this and it happens to be a surface that's tougher to go wire to wire on than the previous dirt surface, it will be interesting to see how long it takes the riders figure that out and start backing the paces down even more. I'd say the under/over is 3-5 races on the first day. ;) NY and CA riders learn pretty quickly.

[Tall One]

The one thing it could bring is a possible increase in field size. Synthetics are often mentioned in the same sentence with turf, so this could keep some horses home for the winter. Might get some traffic from Woodbine, as well as the mid-Atlantic.

One example of what CH mentions above, Keeneland's training track still has the poly installed.

[RXB]

Synthetic surfaces are safer, it's beyond argument for anyone who wants to be logical about it. Santa Anita, Del Mar, Keeneland, all brand new dirt surfaces, all have experienced higher fatality rates upon switching back to dirt. The safest synthetic surfaces have lower long-term fatality rates than the safest dirt tracks. Synthetic seems to be safer than turf, too.

If NYRA puts in a synthetic surface at Aqueduct, they would then also be able to use on it for off-the-turf races during April and November-early December which would considerably reduce the number of scratches. It also differentiates them from the rest of the northeastern winter tracks, which could be a positive.

I don't have the wherewithal or knowledge to say whether or not NYRA should switch but the knee-jerk anti-synthetic arguments are really tired and disproven.

[RXB]

If NYRA does switch any of it's tracks to synthetic they can kiss their handle goodbye. It did not work in Calif. and it will not work in New York.

Have you seen what's happened to Keeneland's handle since they switched back to dirt? Splat, that's what has happened.

I don't see anything definitive for Joe Averages like us to be saying with faux certainty what will happen to Aqueduct's winter handle in the longer run if they make the switch to synthetic. Maybe it will drop, maybe it will stay the same, maybe it will rise, but it seems to me that many people are projecting opinions and personal preferences as though they were facts.

[kevb]

NYRA president Chris Kayalso said "NYRA is also examining a synthetic track at Belmont Park (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/racetracks/6/belmont-park)". Ughh.

[SG4]

I'm not really a fan of betting synthetic tracks, but for several years now I've suggested the AQU inner convert to synthetic for a number of reasons. They'd likely lose less days due to poor weather, less scratches from off tracks, and during the winter this will open up possibilities for turf runners to remain competitive on the circuit instead of taking the winter off, going to Florida, or getting beat up on the inner dirt. This should be beneficial to all owners & trainers (not named David or Rudy) & would hopefully make winter racing in NY more robust & at the very least more interesting than the last several dreadful meets. I would expect a good influx from Woodbine, and horses who were proven at Presque Isle could target the meet as well now. During the Aqueduct main meet you can now also use this track for races off the turf which could help maintain field size too. Also if the synthetic works as intended, it's a lot less for the maintenance crew to deal with as well.

It's unfair to compare this to California which just went all in on synthetics which in hindsight was a bad idea. For a few months a year I think it'd be beneficial to have a unique meet & I would actually expect handle to rise as field size should increase, and as bettors get more used to the track and how it plays I think it will attract a steady handle that would outpace the current AQU inner situation.

What's not mentioned in the article is potential cost. I seem to remember several years ago a number around $2 million floated around to convert the inner to synthetic. If that's accurate, for such a minimal amount of investment I would think it's definitely worth a shot, and worse comes to worse in a few years you say oops & you bring the bulldozers back in. I just think the potential positives outweigh the negatives by a lot here. Make no mistake, dirt is still king in NY & should be when the big money is on the line, but why keep throwing good purses at a diluted product during the winter.

[EMD4ME]

If they go through with this and it happens to be a surface that's tougher to go wire to wire on than the previous dirt surface, it will be interesting to see how long it takes the riders figure that out and start backing the paces down even more. I'd say the under/over is 3-5 races on the first day. ;) NY and CA riders learn pretty quickly.

25 51's every race....

IN SPRINTS!!!

[fiznow]

Always found these stats to be fitted. Dirt tracks can be every bit as safe. All the synthetic tracks were brand new with fresh bases. If you compare them to brand new dirt tracks I suspect you won't find much difference in the end.

Well, these numbers are facts. I agree though that some dirt tracks are safer than others. The inner one at Aqueduct seems to be not one of them. So in respecct to the life of horses a synthetic surface is a good idea there..

[NY BRED]

save the money, close the winter meet.

unless of course enjoy 5 horse fields dominated by the "O" crew

[PaceAdvantage]

Why would any track voluntarily close a profitable race meeting (it's been profitable in the past anyway...not sure about this past year)? Also, a race meeting that attracts the highest handle in the country?

You want to close Aqueduct? Stop betting it.

[Tall One]

Why would any track voluntarily close a profitable race meeting (it's been profitable in the past anyway...not sure about this past year)? Also, a race meeting that attracts the highest handle in the country?

You want to close Aqueduct? Stop betting it.


Handle, as well as a very solid purse structure for that time of the year.

[cj]

Well, these numbers are facts. I agree though that some dirt tracks are safer than others. The inner one at Aqueduct seems to be not one of them. So in respecct to the life of horses a synthetic surface is a good idea there..

They are facts, but like so many statistics they don't come close to telling the whole story. It would be nice to get an apples to apples comparison. Maybe synthetics would still be proven safer.

[EMD4ME]

Why would any track voluntarily close a profitable race meeting (it's been profitable in the past anyway...not sure about this past year)? Also, a race meeting that attracts the highest handle in the country?

You want to close Aqueduct? Stop betting it.

My fear is that Aqu will close because of the politicians involved. Its worth more as "affordable housing" and with the right bribes one would think a real estate developer can get their hands on the property. I feel this "synthetic" discussion is a rouse that begins that downfall. Oh we need synthetic to survive in the winter. Oh we looked at it and it will cost 10 Million. Oh we can't afford it. Oh we need to sell the track/property for liquidity reasons. Or something similar.

Hope I am completely wrong.

[SandyW]

Have you seen what's happened to Keeneland's handle since they switched back to dirt? Splat, that's what has happened.

I don't see anything definitive for Joe Averages like us to be saying with faux certainty what will happen to Aqueduct's winter handle in the longer run if they make the switch to synthetic. Maybe it will drop, maybe it will stay the same, maybe it will rise, but it seems to me that many people are projecting opinions and personal preferences as though they were facts.

You can't compare Keeneland to Aqu. or Belmont.
Look what happened at Santa Anita when they took out the synthetic, their handle sky rocketed.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Why would any track voluntarily close a profitable race meeting (it's been profitable in the past anyway...not sure about this past year)? Also, a race meeting that attracts the highest handle in the country?

You want to close Aqueduct? Stop betting it.

I don't think most people realize that the Big A winter meet is very profitable, at least according to comments Hayward (think it was him) made a few years ago. I assume you read the same comments. At the time, I believe he said the purse structure (low relative to Saratoga) and decent off-track handle made it a solidly profitable meet.

[Secondbest]

My fear is that Aqu will close because of the politicians involved. Its worth more as "affordable housing" and with the right bribes one would think a real estate developer can get their hands on the property. I feel this "synthetic" discussion is a rouse that begins that downfall. Oh we need synthetic to survive in the winter. Oh we looked at it and it will cost 10 Million. Oh we can't afford it. Oh we need to sell the track/property for liquidity reasons. Or something similar.

Hope I am completely wrong.
The plan is for 2018 With Belmont included so What happens? They look and say you know What Lets clóse Aqu turn one of the turfs at bel to Syn and run there all year.It fíits With the casino hating AQ and wanting it gone and the Gov wants to build a hotel resort there.and the legislation allowing non electrónic table games Will have passed. Plus the casino wants 1000 more slots.
Thats my theory.

[dilanesp]

Always found these stats to be fitted. Dirt tracks can be every bit as safe. All the synthetic tracks were brand new with fresh bases. If you compare them to brand new dirt tracks I suspect you won't find much difference in the end.

Here in Southern California we switched back to "new" dirt tracks and our fatalities went up.

No doubt synthetics are safer. I hope NYRA switches.

[dilanesp]

If NYRA does switch any of it's tracks to synthetic they can kiss their handle goodbye. It did not work in Calif. and it will not work in New York.

There's no correlation between handle figures in California and synthetics.

We switched back for one reason and one reason only-- because our most powerful racetrack (Santa Anita) could not, for reasons unknown, get the technology to work properly. And without Santa Anita or Hollywood Park, Del Mar didn't want to go it alone.

We still have it up in Golden Gate and it's great, and the Hollywood Park cushion track and Del Mar polytrack were fine.

[dilanesp]

NYRA president Chris Kayalso said "NYRA is also examining a synthetic track at Belmont Park (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/racetracks/6/belmont-park)". Ughh.

They'll nickname it Big Plastic. :)

[classhandicapper]

25 51's every race....

IN SPRINTS!!!

I had you in mind when I said that. :lol:

[biggestal99]

May if they switch to synthetics for the inner, they can run on it when the weather is inclement. No more sloppy tracks.

Allan

[dilanesp]

May if they switch to synthetics for the inner, they can run on it when the weather is inclement. No more sloppy tracks.

Allan

In theory, the Inner track is optimized for the cold weather. I've never known exactly how that works, but the people I know who worked for NYRA told me that the formulation was different than the outer dirt track.

But in practice, I suspect a good synthetic track is much more weather-resistant than ANY dirt formulation available.

[biggestal99]

Synthetics already proven at turfway.

What's good for Kentucky certainly will work in New York.

Allan

[Tom]

Turfway is for horse who have no future and are cheap as crap for the winter months. I don't think the NY fans will take to Crap-peeta racing when they switch back and forth from dirt.

[cj]

Synthetics already proven at turfway.

What's good for Kentucky certainly will work in New York.

Allan

Kentucky racing is Derby week and Keeneland a few days at Kentucky Downs. The rest is minor league.

[RXB]

I'll say quite confidently that Churchill in November has better horses overall than the Aqueduct inner meet, and certainly the field sizes are much larger. Churchill's spring and September meets, I'd say are not much different from the Aqueduct inner.

[Stillriledup]

Here in Southern California we switched back to "new" dirt tracks and our fatalities went up.

No doubt synthetics are safer. I hope NYRA switches.
but the fatalities are caused by horsemen and tracks letting horses who are 'borderline' run because more entries creates more betting handle and for the horsemen. dirt isn't the culprit for fatalities, its compromised horses that are the reason.

[mannyberrios]

The plan is for 2018 With Belmont included so What happens? They look and say you know What Lets clóse Aqu turn one of the turfs at bel to Syn and run there all year.It fíits With the casino hating AQ and wanting it gone and the Gov wants to build a hotel resort there.and the legislation allowing non electrónic table games Will have passed. Plus the casino wants 1000 more slots.
Thats my theory.
In about 25 years

[fiznow]

Concerning handicapping races on synthetic tracks i have to admit it was tough in the beginning. But as soon as horses showed some past performances at these I didn't find it more difficult than cappin dirt races. Like dirt tracks every synth track is different and you will find out what's working best for you. I think a good handicapper has to be flexible. Meanwhile I'm doing quite well at Arlington, Woodbine and Golden Gate and not worse than at the dirt tracks I play.
Other big advatages of synthetic surfaces are that you don't have to deal with sloppy or muddy conditions and that there is no kickback what is very comfortable for horses and jockeys.

[cj]

Concerning handicapping races on synthetic tracks i have to admit it was tough in the beginning. But as soon as horses showed some past performances at these I didn't find it more difficult than cappin dirt races. Like dirt tracks every synth track is different and you will find out what's working best for you. I think a good handicapper has to be flexible. Meanwhile I'm doing quite well at Arlington, Woodbine and Golden Gate and not worse than at the dirt tracks I play.
Other big advatages of synthetic surfaces are that you don't have to deal with sloppy or muddy conditions and that there is no kickback what is very comfortable for horses and jockeys.

No kickback? Turfway looks like the jockeys are riding airboats.

[EMD4ME]

May if they switch to synthetics for the inner, they can run on it when the weather is inclement. No more sloppy tracks.

Allan

They will cancel regardless. Tracks like NYRA save $400K-$500K when they cancel. Dates are never made up.

I bet, they factor in forced cancellations into their budget (cancel 4 extra winter cards, save $2,000,000). What did NYRA make last year? About $2 MM :D

[EMD4ME]

No kickback? Turfway looks like the jockeys are riding airboats.

I feel bad for Turfway horses and jocks. Swallowing that toxic junk can not be good for your health.

10 years from now, we'll hear about throat cancer from polytrack.

[EMD4ME]

In about 25 years

Cuomo and the gang are so money hungry, they will find a way to circumvent the agreement. That is my fear.

[biggestal99]

They will cancel regardless. Tracks like NYRA save $400K-$500K when they cancel. Dates are never made up.

I bet, they factor in forced cancellations into their budget (cancel 4 extra winter cards, save $2,000,000). What did NYRA make last year? About $2 MM :D

But one huge excuse for canceling is gone. There is no "track is bad and jocks fear for their safety"

Poof gone.

Allan

[SandyW]

I feel bad for Turfway horses and jocks. Swallowing that toxic junk can not be good for your health.

10 years from now, we'll hear about throat cancer from polytrack.

I don't think that it will take 10 years, one of the reasons that Woodbine took out the poly garbage and went to tapeta.

[EMD4ME]

But one huge excuse for canceling is gone. There is no "track is bad and jocks fear for their safety"

Poof gone.

Allan

It's awfully windy out there today......

2.6 inches of snow....Boy, let's not make those poor fans drive out in this weather.

1 inch of icy rain. "The Poly doesn't seem to drain properly with the icy melt and 30 degree temps".

[mannyberrios]

Cuomo and the gang are so money hungry, they will find a way to circumvent the agreement. That is my fear.
Yessssssss, I understand what you are saying, praying you are wrong.

[Tom]

If Aqueduct goes synthetic, they can kiss my $20 every year good bye!

[arw629]

Really hoping for synthetics at aqu

[Zaf]

I dislike artificial surfaces, I love the inner dirt meet, steady diet of 6F sprints, though I have to admit field size was a bit paltry this winter :(

Z

[thespaah]

That's a part of the reason.

For me, all the fundamentals of pace, trips, saving ground on the inner, biases, dynamics etc ALL go out the door on that polycrap.

Maybe I'm just a stupid horseplayer who can't adapt to polycrap. Either way, I don't care. It's not for me. I tried. Lost money. Saw little logic. Smart enough to know, I can't bet it and be good at it.
When it comes to synthetic, polytrack in particular, I could not catch a cold.
I just don't know how to bet it. So i steer clear.

[thespaah]

If artificial turf is such a great idea why don't They do it at their beloved saratoga?
Winner winner...Chicken dinner.
Excellent reply.

[affirmedny]

But one huge excuse for canceling is gone. There is no "track is bad and jocks fear for their safety"

Poof gone.

Allan

A big factor in AQU cancellations for bad weather is that 95 percent of the horses are stabled at Belmont and have to be vanned in on raceday. A synthetic track is not going to fix that.

[Saratoga_Mike]

They will cancel regardless. Tracks like NYRA save $400K-$500K when they cancel. Dates are never made up.

I bet, they factor in forced cancellations into their budget (cancel 4 extra winter cards, save $2,000,000). What did NYRA make last year? About $2 MM :D

If a card is canceled, I believe the purse account just builds. It doesn't go into NYRA's coffers...unless NYRA works differently than other tracks.

[dilanesp]

but the fatalities are caused by horsemen and tracks letting horses who are 'borderline' run because more entries creates more betting handle and for the horsemen. dirt isn't the culprit for fatalities, its compromised horses that are the reason.

Well, lots of safety devices involve reducing that sort of risk. A lot of the injuries prevented by air bags and seat belts are a result of driver error. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have them.

[Stillriledup]

Well, lots of safety devices involve reducing that sort of risk. A lot of the injuries prevented by air bags and seat belts are a result of driver error. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have them.

My belief is that all the avenues for reducing risk haven't been crossed yet, why not get much more vigilant on which horses get to race ? Why not do that first before switching surfaces?

[cj]

My belief is that all the avenues for reducing risk haven't been crossed yet, why not get much more vigilant on which horses get to race ? Why not do that first before switching surfaces?

Probably because fields are short enough as it is. I'm not saying it is good to race horses that shouldn't be racing, but can't really afford to exclude those that can because something *might* go wrong.

[Redboard]

If artificial turf is such a great idea why don't They do it at their beloved saratoga?

The SPA does have an inner turf track. They could conceivably replace it with synthetic. But since they only race there seven weeks out of the year, I'm not sure it would be worth it unless they had a lot of rain during those weeks. Even them I'm not sure it would help field-size or safety much.

[dilanesp]

My belief is that all the avenues for reducing risk haven't been crossed yet, why not get much more vigilant on which horses get to race ? Why not do that first before switching surfaces?

Have all avenues for reducing auto accident risk been crossed yet?

I mean, to justify your reasoning on the basis of formal logic, "changing the surface" must necessarily be the very last thing you try, only after everything else. I don't remotely see why that is true. Why can't you go in the other direction-- change the track first, and then take other steps to reduce remaining fatalities?

[VeryOldMan]

My research is a tiny bit dated, but I researched Tapeta (and I research for a living FWIW) - the surface is safer for horses than dirt, based on data which includes "lower end" tracks like Presque Isle and Golden Gate. Handicapping it is a different story, but the data is compelling re safety.

Putting it on AQU's inner track makes a lot of sense in terms of safety, kickback, absorption, etc. - but isn't the fundamental issue the concept of horses racing at that site in January, February, etc.? If you were the Grand Poobah of this sport, would you run a meet at AQU during the WINTER?!

[SuperPickle]

I'm baffled by you guys not supporting this.

First off the opening and closing off the outer track is totally subjective. They could race on it through Thanksgiving and open it in March. So we're talking about 3-4 months of NYRA racing.

Second, I know guys are going to jump on here with the "synthetic tracks have a huge bias." My response is unless I had a stroke does anything run more biased than the inner? 2/3 of times its got a huge speed bias and then at random times they over correct it and speed folds like superman on laundry day. Do you really think you'd get a less fair track?

Look at Golden Gate. Golden Gate is probably a the most fair track in the country in terms of track bias.

If NYRA went synthetic on the inner you'd most likely see guys like Chad Brown and Clement and maybe even Shug leave some nice turf horses to run on it. Since the inner dates match up to Woodbine closing and opening you'd definitely see some of those horses. You'd also probably see owners from Arlington and Presque Isle send some of those horses. And let's not forget Fair Hill. Guys like Trombetta and Motion who train horses over it but typically race at Laurel would certainly prefer to race horses over the surface they train on.

So who's opposed to a fairer surface, a safer surface and more horses?

[Stillriledup]

Have all avenues for reducing auto accident risk been crossed yet?

I mean, to justify your reasoning on the basis of formal logic, "changing the surface" must necessarily be the very last thing you try, only after everything else. I don't remotely see why that is true. Why can't you go in the other direction-- change the track first, and then take other steps to reduce remaining fatalities?

the reason is because they're changing the track to reduce injuries without doing much less expensive steps first. why would that be? just dont let compromised horses race and you reduce fatalities, is this rocket science?

[P Matties Jr]

I think the perfect scenario for NYRA is to maintain both a synthetic and a dirt track all season. You could run a nice mixture of a card like a standard card with dirt and turf, and the field size would be strong on both. Too much synthetic racing all winter will not be a good gambling proposition and the 25 quarters going 6f would wear thin pretty quickly. The problem is the Remsen and the Wood Memorial couldn't be run on synthetic so they'd have a different look on the inner dirt, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

[RXB]

If they could run on both dirt and synthetic during the winter months, that would be ideal from a racing standpoint, although added maintenance and operational costs would have to be within reason.

At all three NYRA tracks it would be feasible to have a dirt surface, a turf course and a synthetic surface. At Belmont, they could probably fit four surfaces (one dirt, two grass, one synthetic). Synthetic is definitely the best option during wet or cold weather but $10 million is $10 million, they'd have to make it up over the lifespan.

It's just tough to maintain field sizes and a decent number of races each week with only a dirt surface in operation. The inner dirt meet's handle and average field size have been sinking like stones for the past decade. Something has to be changed.

[SG4]

Synthetic is definitely the best option during wet or cold weather but $10 million is $10 million, they'd have to make it up over the lifespan.

Where do you get this cost figure from? I haven't seen anything in print about estimated costs, and the last time I saw talk of a synthetic track at NYRA being discussed I thought it was at a much lower cost than this.

[RXB]

Where do you get this cost figure from? I haven't seen anything in print about estimated costs, and the last time I saw talk of a synthetic track at NYRA being discussed I thought it was at a much lower cost than this.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/211315/nyra-looking-at-synthetic-track-for-aqueduct

"... the new track is expected to cost between $9 million and $12 million."

[SG4]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/211315/nyra-looking-at-synthetic-track-for-aqueduct

"... the new track is expected to cost between $9 million and $12 million."

Thanks for the link