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View Full Version : Breeders' Cup back to Churchill, 2018


Grits
04-25-2016, 09:44 AM
Well, this is outstanding news on a Monday morning!!!

http://www.breederscup.com/article/breeders-cup-return-churchill-downs-2018?utm_source=BC&utm_medium=

Kash$
04-25-2016, 09:48 AM
Looks like NYRA will never host BC...

Wickel
04-25-2016, 10:46 AM
Back to what should be its permanent home. Great news.:jump:

MonmouthParkJoe
04-25-2016, 11:05 AM
The current rotation drives me nuts. I understand why its in California with the favorable time zone and weather. Not to mention the capacity of venues like Santa Anita and Churchill.

In my opinion it should rotate to several tracks around the country. It is a special event that should be available to all fans of the sport. Much like pro sports these days, the average fan is priced out. I hope to see it back at some mid tier tracks. Again, I know why its always in these venues, just dont like it. I will be at the event this year at Santa Anita since I am out here in Arizona, but after that who knows.

tanner12oz
04-25-2016, 12:05 PM
this was the worst kept secret in the game...I heard this at some point last year

tanner12oz
04-25-2016, 12:08 PM
The current rotation drives me nuts. I understand why its in California with the favorable time zone and weather. Not to mention the capacity of venues like Santa Anita and Churchill.

In my opinion it should rotate to several tracks around the country. It is a special event that should be available to all fans of the sport. Much like pro sports these days, the average fan is priced out. I hope to see it back at some mid tier tracks. Again, I know why its always in these venues, just dont like it. I will be at the event this year at Santa Anita since I am out here in Arizona, but after that who knows.

I got GA tix for both days this year. total cost was $100 bucks. I secured a bench for both days and had an adequate view of the track. I think if anything it was a value and I hardly felt "priced out". I was "priced out" of reserved seats, the clubhouse, the loge etc etc but there is a price point in my opinion for everyone.

dilanesp
04-25-2016, 03:31 PM
1. Santa Anita is by far the best site for it. We have the best weather. We also have the largest USEFUL capacity (defined as people with a view of the entire track). Churchill has way too much stuff in its infield which means that only upper level box seat holders and people in the rooftop suites have a decent view of the whole track.

2. There's no particular reason the event HAS to rotate around. It requires a certain institutional competence to stage this, which Santa Anita (and, to be fair, Churchill) has. And a lot of other tracks require a ton of temporary seating and do not give fans a very good view of the races. Plus, outside of California there is the possibility of off tracks, which are very bad for an event that is supposed to decide championships.

3. Tickets are expensive because this is racing's Super Bowl. If you can't afford it, that really doesn't matter-- obviously 50,000 other people can. Cheapos don't get to see desirable events. Welcome to entertainment. At any rate, Santa Anita also offers the best value because you can see the whole track from the apron and that's general admission.

4. There's a whole bunch of behind the scenes corporate stuff, and stuff involving the beautiful people, that makes a ton of money for the Breeders' Cup people and which ordinary fans don't see. Again, Santa Anita, Churchill, and NYRA excel at that stuff, because of both institutional competence and, in Santa Anita and New York's case, proximity to those sorts of people.

5. My understanding is that there have been various behind the scenes issues that have prevented the event from going back to New York. At any rate, there are issues with holding it there-- attendance is generally lower and weather is poor. The Breeders' Cups in New York probably make less money than they do elsewhere.

6. See you in Louisville in 2018!

dilanesp
04-25-2016, 03:34 PM
By the way, specifically in response to Monmouth Park Joe: I attended the BC the year that they held it in Monmouth, and had a great time and had great seats. The event was run very well. Also, Monmouth has incredible clam chowder.

Unfortunately, a lot of European horsemen were pissed off about various things that happened, so I don't expect it to be back there for awhile.

But since you're in Arizona, let's go for Turf Paradise 2019!!!!!! :P

castaway01
04-25-2016, 03:41 PM
The current rotation drives me nuts. I understand why its in California with the favorable time zone and weather. Not to mention the capacity of venues like Santa Anita and Churchill.

In my opinion it should rotate to several tracks around the country. It is a special event that should be available to all fans of the sport. Much like pro sports these days, the average fan is priced out. I hope to see it back at some mid tier tracks. Again, I know why its always in these venues, just dont like it. I will be at the event this year at Santa Anita since I am out here in Arizona, but after that who knows.

I was at the Monmouth Park BC. It was very well run from a fan's perspective. However, after that nor'easter hit that weekend they'll never come back there, fair or not. NYRA doesn't want the BC, at least not at the terms they'd be forced to take. That leaves the CA and KY tracks. Maybe Gulfstream? There really isn't much of a "circuit" of places to go to these days that can hold those crowds.

MonmouthParkJoe
04-25-2016, 05:13 PM
I was at the Monmouth Park BC. It was very well run from a fan's perspective. However, after that nor'easter hit that weekend they'll never come back there, fair or not. NYRA doesn't want the BC, at least not at the terms they'd be forced to take. That leaves the CA and KY tracks. Maybe Gulfstream? There really isn't much of a "circuit" of places to go to these days that can hold those crowds.

I was there too for that, and it was a storm of epic proportions. You cant control the weather and it could happen at any track. I do think NYRA does want it again at some point, but there was so much up in the air with the state and management that they steered clear of them. Curious to see what happens going forward. Limited venues in terms of capacity and tracks without casinos.

MonmouthParkJoe
04-25-2016, 05:15 PM
I got GA tix for both days this year. total cost was $100 bucks. I secured a bench for both days and had an adequate view of the track. I think if anything it was a value and I hardly felt "priced out". I was "priced out" of reserved seats, the clubhouse, the loge etc etc but there is a price point in my opinion for everyone.

It isnt so much the general admission, I was leaning more towards the cost of the travel for fans if it stays in one venue. Lots of racing fans in the east that simply cannot afford the airfare and hotel. If it rotated more to tracks around the country, more fans would have access to it.

MonmouthParkJoe
04-25-2016, 05:18 PM
1. Santa Anita is by far the best site for it. We have the best weather. We also have the largest USEFUL capacity (defined as people with a view of the entire track). Churchill has way too much stuff in its infield which means that only upper level box seat holders and people in the rooftop suites have a decent view of the whole track.

2. There's no particular reason the event HAS to rotate around. It requires a certain institutional competence to stage this, which Santa Anita (and, to be fair, Churchill) has. And a lot of other tracks require a ton of temporary seating and do not give fans a very good view of the races. Plus, outside of California there is the possibility of off tracks, which are very bad for an event that is supposed to decide championships.

3. Tickets are expensive because this is racing's Super Bowl. If you can't afford it, that really doesn't matter-- obviously 50,000 other people can. Cheapos don't get to see desirable events. Welcome to entertainment. At any rate, Santa Anita also offers the best value because you can see the whole track from the apron and that's general admission.

4. There's a whole bunch of behind the scenes corporate stuff, and stuff involving the beautiful people, that makes a ton of money for the Breeders' Cup people and which ordinary fans don't see. Again, Santa Anita, Churchill, and NYRA excel at that stuff, because of both institutional competence and, in Santa Anita and New York's case, proximity to those sorts of people.

5. My understanding is that there have been various behind the scenes issues that have prevented the event from going back to New York. At any rate, there are issues with holding it there-- attendance is generally lower and weather is poor. The Breeders' Cups in New York probably make less money than they do elsewhere.

6. See you in Louisville in 2018!

I know the reasons why, just dont agree with it. On a side note, I am two hours from Turf and still havent been there, nor do I plan to :D

NTamm1215
04-25-2016, 06:50 PM
I was at the Monmouth Park BC. It was very well run from a fan's perspective. However, after that nor'easter hit that weekend they'll never come back there, fair or not. NYRA doesn't want the BC, at least not at the terms they'd be forced to take. That leaves the CA and KY tracks. Maybe Gulfstream? There really isn't much of a "circuit" of places to go to these days that can hold those crowds.

There's a better chance of Lone Star hosting it again than Gulfstream. The facility can't accommodate more than 20k.

VigorsTheGrey
04-25-2016, 07:13 PM
Wow 2018! Seems like 2001 was just a few days ago and now we are talking 2018, and then the year 2020! How time does fly....hope everyone is having fun...cause it will not last forever will it?

dilanesp
04-25-2016, 08:45 PM
There's a better chance of Lone Star hosting it again than Gulfstream. The facility can't accommodate more than 20k.

Yep, I went to new Gulfstream. No way. (Indeed, BC's were a very tight fit even in old Gulfstream.)

tanner12oz
04-25-2016, 09:01 PM
I think I heard they had 60k at oaklawn for ark derby..how feasible is oaklawn? Hotels might be an issue

dilanesp
04-25-2016, 09:09 PM
I think I heard they had 60k at oaklawn for ark derby..how feasible is oaklawn? Hotels might be an issue

No turf course. Bad weather. Track is in the middle of nowhere which is not only an issue with hotels but also with respect to the corporate / social stuff. Track also has an unusual configuration and I'm not sure it can accommodate the distances of all the races.

Bigadam119
04-25-2016, 09:25 PM
[QUOTE=dilanesp]No turf course. Bad weather. Track is in the middle of nowhere which is not only an issue with hotels but also with respect to the corporate / social stuff. Track also has an unusual configuration and I'm not sure it can accommodate the distances of all the races.[/QUOTE

Not having a turf course is the deal breaker IMO. They could work around the other challenges but they must have the turf races.

They only thing I can think of is if they tried to make ticket sales at two different tracks and have a Breeders cup turf day at a separate track. Maybe breeders cup Friday? Or have the turf races on Saturday and switch back and forth. It sounds crazy but they would get additional ticket revenue.

rastajenk
04-26-2016, 07:12 AM
I used to think of a similar far-fetched idea that Turfway and River Downs could host it simultaneously. Some poly races, the RD turf course, good ol' dirt: helicopter owners and trainers back and forth as necessary, alternate like Ohio's old 7-and-7 format or Turfway's coordination with Kentucky Downs...only closer. That was after TP installed the plastic but before the racino replaced RD's big (enough) open air grandstand.

It was an outside-the-box kind of plan. :p

dilanesp
04-26-2016, 02:45 PM
I used to think of a similar far-fetched idea that Turfway and River Downs could host it simultaneously. Some poly races, the RD turf course, good ol' dirt: helicopter owners and trainers back and forth as necessary, alternate like Ohio's old 7-and-7 format or Turfway's coordination with Kentucky Downs...only closer. That was after TP installed the plastic but before the racino replaced RD's big (enough) open air grandstand.

It was an outside-the-box kind of plan. :p

They really can't do this. The BC is almost a week king event, like Derby week and similar events, when you add in all the events, parties, receptions, and corporate stuff. All of which brings in lots of money. That stuff requires that everything be in one place.

Also, while I am the last person to care about horsemen, they would rightly object to two sites as well.

Cholly
04-26-2016, 03:15 PM
They really can't do this. The BC is almost a week king event, like Derby week and similar events, when you add in all the events, parties, receptions, and corporate stuff. All of which brings in lots of money. That stuff requires that everything be in one place...

Of course you're right about all those things--gotta' give the rich a chance to hang with other rich. But it would be pretty cool, if split between two or three venues, to have a race go off every 10 or 15 minutes. Someone, other than the choir, might actually watch the damn thing on TV if that were the case.

elhelmete
04-26-2016, 04:36 PM
Of course you're right about all those things--gotta' give the rich a chance to hang with other rich. But it would be pretty cool, if split between two or three venues, to have a race go off every 10 or 15 minutes. Someone, other than the choir, might actually watch the damn thing on TV if that were the case.

Why would 3 venues attract more TV viewers?

Less time between races not great for handle.

Splitting overhead between 3 tracks is also inefficient.

No offense personally, but sometimes thinking out of the box just for the sake of doing so isn't a great idea.

ThinkingAlways
04-26-2016, 05:02 PM
1. Santa Anita is by far the best site for it. We also have the largest USEFUL capacity (defined as people with a view of the entire track). Churchill has way too much stuff in its infield which means that only upper level box seat holders and people in the rooftop suites have a decent view of the whole track.



Huh?

dilanesp
04-26-2016, 05:29 PM
Of course you're right about all those things--gotta' give the rich a chance to hang with other rich. But it would be pretty cool, if split between two or three venues, to have a race go off every 10 or 15 minutes. Someone, other than the choir, might actually watch the damn thing on TV if that were the case.

I loved the Sunshine Millions, the way it originally was, for that reason. But bear in mind, the Sunshine Millions was not connected to a bunch of social and corporate events, so it was possible to run it as a compact TV show on NBC with races going bang-bang-bang.

One other thing to bear in mind is that a lot of handicappers aren't diligent about preparation. So running big races too quickly together probably cuts into handle, and may drive poor players from the betting pool leaving the sharks who prepared.

dilanesp
04-26-2016, 05:34 PM
Huh?

I couldn't find a perfect image of it, but this kind of captures it. This is a photo taken from the first level boxes (i.e., the apron) at Churchill. Notice you can't see the backstretch, basically at all.

http://contemporaryresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ChurchillDowns1-300x205.jpg

Even though Churchill claims 40,000 permanent seats, something like 15,000 of them are on the apron and cannot see the backstretch.

In contrast, here's what it looks like from the apron (general admission-- at Churchill, this would be a reserved seat!) at Santa Anita:

https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+anita+apron+view&client=opera&hs=gBs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjg-9i8oK3MAhWLlB4KHaTeDwQQ_AUICCgC&biw=1366&bih=658#imgrc=YLO77Otchdi02M%3A

Notice you can see the full backstretch there, except behind the video screen.

This is actually a gigantic issue for the ordinary fans. While Churchill offers a ton of BC seats for sale, the number of seats that afford what I would consider a decent view of the track is quite limited and they are quite expensive (usually over $500 for the two days of the BC). In contrast, you can pay general admission at Santa Anita and see the entire race.

fiznow
04-26-2016, 05:42 PM
I remember Breeders Cups at Arlington, Belmont, Woodbine and other tracks. I think it should be on another track every year, not just CD and SA most times.

castaway01
04-26-2016, 05:53 PM
Of course you're right about all those things--gotta' give the rich a chance to hang with other rich. But it would be pretty cool, if split between two or three venues, to have a race go off every 10 or 15 minutes. Someone, other than the choir, might actually watch the damn thing on TV if that were the case.

Absolutely no offense, but that's a terrible idea. The last thing you would want on a day when a vast crowd is trying to get in bets is SHORTER post times. That's why there's 90 minutes before the Kentucky Derby, not 10. And faster post times would not increase the audience 1%. The majority of of those who care are at racetracks, off-track facilities, or their computers. TV ratings mean very little for this event---just handle---but unless there's some massive resurgence in racing's popularity, what non-bettor is going to watch?

PoloUK6108
04-26-2016, 06:02 PM
I couldn't find a perfect image of it, but this kind of captures it. This is a photo taken from the first level boxes (i.e., the apron) at Churchill. Notice you can't see the backstretch, basically at all.

http://contemporaryresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ChurchillDowns1-300x205.jpg

Even though Churchill claims 40,000 permanent seats, something like 15,000 of them are on the apron and cannot see the backstretch.

In contrast, here's what it looks like from the apron (general admission-- at Churchill, this would be a reserved seat!) at Santa Anita:

https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+anita+apron+view&client=opera&hs=gBs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjg-9i8oK3MAhWLlB4KHaTeDwQQ_AUICCgC&biw=1366&bih=658#imgrc=YLO77Otchdi02M%3A

Notice you can see the full backstretch there, except behind the video screen.

This is actually a gigantic issue for the ordinary fans. While Churchill offers a ton of BC seats for sale, the number of seats that afford what I would consider a decent view of the track is quite limited and they are quite expensive (usually over $500 for the two days of the BC). In contrast, you can pay general admission at Santa Anita and see the entire race.

The Big Board pretty much makes this a non issue..you can't help but know what's going on now during a race at Churchill. You can stand over at Speedway across the street and watch the races if u had to.

dilanesp
04-26-2016, 06:02 PM
Absolutely no offense, but that's a terrible idea. The last thing you would want on a day when a vast crowd is trying to get in bets is SHORTER post times. That's why there's 90 minutes before the Kentucky Derby, not 10. And faster post times would not increase the audience 1%. The majority of of those who care are at racetracks, off-track facilities, or their computers. TV ratings mean very little for this event---just handle---but unless there's some massive resurgence in racing's popularity, what non-bettor is going to watch?

Also, I'm not even sure that non-bettors and casual fans hate the waits between races. As you mention, the Derby has 90 minutes. And yet, it's the most popular race in America with non-horseplayers, and the telecast gets a very healthy 10 or 11 rating every year, meaning tons of casual fans watch it. Plus the huge crowd that comes to Churchill every year for the thing-- the women in the fancy hats don't mind the wait either.

So even in terms of generating revenue from the casual fans and the $2 bettors, running the races frequently is not the solution.

dilanesp
04-26-2016, 06:05 PM
The Big Board pretty much makes this a non issue..you can't help but know what's going on now during a race at Churchill

Do you think that everyone goes to live events to watch the event on television?

Churchill is an extremely badly designed racetrack-- mostly because its design was fixed 100 years ago when it saw small crowds, and it was never redesigned or rebuilt; instead, a bunch of new seats were just jury-rigged onto the original structure.

In contrast, Santa Anita (and, to be fair, Belmont Park as well) are extremely well designed racetracks where you aren't forced to watch television to see what you should be able to see live with your own eyes.

Churchill is vastly inferior as a place to actually watch a big live race for that reason.

biggestal99
04-27-2016, 09:06 AM
.

Churchill is vastly inferior as a place to actually watch a big live race for that reason.

Been to every BC since 2001. so here are my watching live races ratings

1. SA
2. Belmont
3. Keeneland
4. Monmouth
5. Arlington
6. CD
7. Lone Star

Keeneland was a surprise to me. as was CD (bad surprise).
Lone star was a horror show for watching a live race.
Monmouth and Arlington middling views.
top 2 are the best.

Allan

Lemon Drop Husker
04-27-2016, 09:22 AM
Been to every BC since 2001. so here are my watching live races ratings

1. SA
2. Belmont
3. Keeneland
4. Monmouth
5. Arlington
6. CD
7. Lone Star

Keeneland was a surprise to me. as was CD (bad surprise).
Lone star was a horror show for watching a live race.
Monmouth and Arlington middling views.
top 2 are the best.

Allan

Completely agree.

CD is a crapshow (and cold), and Santa Anita is by far the best venue.

Keeneland is a bit high, and I'll be looking for the right tickets at Del Mar next year. Hopefully they don't build massive tents half a mile from the finish line and advertise them as "great seats" for exorbitant prices.

dilanesp
04-27-2016, 11:28 AM
Completely agree.

CD is a crapshow (and cold), and Santa Anita is by far the best venue.

Keeneland is a bit high, and I'll be looking for the right tickets at Del Mar next year. Hopefully they don't build massive tents half a mile from the finish line and advertise them as "great seats" for exorbitant prices.

Good seats will be available for the BC at Del Mar (the grandstand is quite spacious) but they will be expensive-- that place is very popular with the beautiful people and they will be buying tickets.

cj
04-27-2016, 11:45 AM
I have been to sporting events all over the world, including some big horse racing events. But I've never had much desire to go to the Breeder's Cup. For me it is a HUGE day for betting, and I'd rather do it from the comfort of my home for free rather than start out $1000 in the hole.

Lemon Drop Husker
04-27-2016, 11:48 AM
Good seats will be available for the BC at Del Mar (the grandstand is quite spacious) but they will be expensive-- that place is very popular with the beautiful people and they will be buying tickets.

Are you trying to say I'm not beautiful?

That hurts. :p

Grits
04-27-2016, 11:58 AM
Good seats will be available for the BC at Del Mar (the grandstand is quite spacious) but they will be expensive-- that place is very popular with the beautiful people and they will be buying tickets.

It really doesn't take much to impress you, Dilane. The Beautiful People. What are you, like, 16 years old? This stuff is as lame as it gets. Your posts are peppered with these folks, the beautiful people, all the time. Damn.

Lemon Drop Husker
04-27-2016, 11:58 AM
I have been to sporting events all over the world, including some big horse racing events. But I've never had much desire to go to the Breeder's Cup. For me it is a HUGE day for betting, and I'd rather do it from the comfort of my home for free rather than start out $1000 in the hole.

You are $1K in the hole before you start 'capping CJ.

That sucks. ;)

AndyC
04-27-2016, 11:59 AM
Good seats will be available for the BC at Del Mar (the grandstand is quite spacious) but they will be expensive-- that place is very popular with the beautiful people and they will be buying tickets.

Spacious compared to what? Del Mar can comfortably fit 35-40,000 and after that it gets very uncomfortable. I am sure they will need extensive temporary seating to accommodate 50,000+.

Grits
04-27-2016, 12:02 PM
Andy, how silly! The beautiful won't sit on temporary seating.

Spacious compared to what? Del Mar can comfortably fit 35-40,000 and after that it gets very uncomfortable. I am sure they will need extensive temporary seating to accommodate 50,000+.

cj
04-27-2016, 12:21 PM
You are $1K in the hole before you start 'capping CJ.

That sucks. ;)

I'm saying if I fly there, get a hotel, buy tickets for the two days, food, etc. $1000 was probably way underestimating those things assuming my wife attends also. Probably more like 2 or 3k.

elhelmete
04-27-2016, 12:21 PM
Spacious compared to what? Del Mar can comfortably fit 35-40,000 and after that it gets very uncomfortable. I am sure they will need extensive temporary seating to accommodate 50,000+.

I agree. DMR gets snug after a point, and a sea of temp seating will, IMHO, make for a disjointed experience.

I've also found the grandstand and even most of the clubhouse seating that sits under the 'roof' has a closed-in feeling to it. Maybe the roofline is a bit low, I don't know. I don't get that same feeling at SA.

Lemon Drop Husker
04-27-2016, 12:32 PM
I'm saying if I fly there, get a hotel, buy tickets for the two days, food, etc. $1000 was probably way underestimating those things assuming my wife attends also. Probably more like 2 or 3k.

Are you trying to tell us that you are married?

elhelmete
04-27-2016, 12:57 PM
It really doesn't take much to impress you, Dilane. The Beautiful People. What are you, like, 16 years old? This stuff is as lame as it gets. Your posts are peppered with these folks, the beautiful people, all the time. Damn.

I think he was just describing the reality of a portion of the DMR crowd, esp a BC crowd.

1st time lasix
04-27-2016, 01:15 PM
If Tampa can host a superbowl....it can host a Breeder's Cup crowd for a weekend. {obviously that would require a new building.) The weather is usually perfect at that time of the year. The Sports authority would have to get involved.

cj
04-27-2016, 01:33 PM
Are you trying to tell us that you are married?

I didn't realize that was a secret.

classhandicapper
04-27-2016, 03:02 PM
I'm saying if I fly there, get a hotel, buy tickets for the two days, food, etc. $1000 was probably way underestimating those things assuming my wife attends also. Probably more like 2 or 3k.

I used to see where it was being held. If it was someplace we wanted to go on vacation anyway I'd turn it into a week long trip to do other things that just happened to be close to enough to track we could go to the races on the big race days. That's how I got to see Del Mar and the Pacific Classic too. ;)

dilanesp
04-27-2016, 04:18 PM
It really doesn't take much to impress you, Dilane. The Beautiful People. What are you, like, 16 years old? This stuff is as lame as it gets. Your posts are peppered with these folks, the beautiful people, all the time. Damn.

Grits, like it or not, a fair amount of the money that actually supports this sport comes from that set. Owners who don't give a darn as long as they get to party in the turf club, celebrities who will spend freely and in excess of what things are actually worth to be around other celebrities, etc.

Horse racing-- as is true of many things in life-- really is something like an F. Scott Fitzgerald novel. You can resent those folks in the turf club all you want, but they have it better than you or me. :) And, important to us, they support the sport.

Grits
04-27-2016, 05:04 PM
Grits, like it or not, a fair amount of the money that actually supports this sport comes from that set. Owners who don't give a darn as long as they get to party in the turf club, celebrities who will spend freely and in excess of what things are actually worth to be around other celebrities, etc.

Horse racing-- as is true of many things in life-- really is something like an F. Scott Fitzgerald novel. You can resent those folks in the turf club all you want, but they have it better than you or me. :) And, important to us, they support the sport.

No, Dilane. You may be of the opinion that they have it better than you and me. But, I'm not of that opinion. Not at all. I happen to have lived long enough to not give a shit, that's our primary difference, I'd guess. I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I'm as valuable as they are.

I could have a conversation with either of them in the Turf Club at DelMar, nod my head, let them rattle on and on, thinking...sure your horse is a champion, yes, of course. I'm so happy for you, but she still ran her entire career against tomato cans!!

I don't resent them--celebs, that is--or their wealth as their money can neither buy them their health or their happiness. Just ask Steve Jobs who is among thousands on the other side of the grass.

SoCal is not the Epicenter of thoroughbred racing, it just happens to be where the people that think they're more beautiful than the rest of us LIVE. ;)

Thomas Wolfe's, Look Homeward Angel was far better than anything F.Scott Fitzgerald ever wrote! Fitzgerald was running, strictly, for second money. :kiss:

BIG49010
04-27-2016, 05:22 PM
CD may have 40,000 seats, but my guess 4,000 can see the track, and 36,000 you see the back of the guys head in front of you. Worst place to see a horse race in the USA. They can support a huge crowd, nobody does it better, but don't plan on seeing the races! Belmont is best place to see races, and it can take a huge crowd, but only god knows what NY did to piss off the BC.