First time geldings

[Valuist]

I wonder if any database people had numbers on this. I've never seen any stats on it; maybe because most tracks don't publish this info. The NYRA tracks do; seems like on most days there's at least one first time gelding.

[cj]

It's a tough stat to track, but I keep notes when a published 1st time gelding runs a much improved race. The public will see the improvement, but the reason for the improvement is not in the PPs anywhere.

[Valuist]

CJ-

Would you happen to be Beyerguy on another site?

[cj]

Yes, I occasionally post there (Thorograph). I find the completely different approach they take there interesting at times.

I don't agree with some stuff, have learned a few things others times, but to be honest, I wish Jerry Brown had a separate section where he bashed Ragozin instead of cluttering the main board with it ALL THE TIME! I get tired of reading it to be honest.

[cash2]

i actually track this in a casual sort of way. i play mostly DEL and PHA and the racing office at DEL is pretty good at staying on top of this. PHA i don't think so. you can buy the equibase program for DEL at the program stand or from a self service machine. the raceday program bought at the program stand contains the most up to date and cutting edge info. (ok.. i couldn't resist.)

i've seen horses listed as geldings appear as colts or horses in the drf for years afterwards. Balarat and American Prince are two examples that come to mind. as a matter of fact, i once asked the DEL chartcaller how the gelding info was transmitted to equibase. how's "i dunno" for a reply

will return with part two...gotta get the dog outside

[Storm Cadet]

CJ,

I go on their site each day too, I wrote Jerry last year just about him bashing their competors product each day on their board. He has a good product and you can certainly get some great points on their site, but I wish we didn't have to wade through the childish arguing between the two sites!

Keep up the good work.

Ron

[cash2]

ok part two

can you make any money with this? maybe if your info is fairly reliable. i can vouch for DEL. other tracks ... who knows? FWIW i did a study of all the first time geldings that ran at DEL two years ago. i can't remember all the numbers, but i think i had forty or fifty plus. it was a flat bet profit to bet them all but the 30-1 shot had a lot to do with that. remove him and it was a modest loss. i do remember being struck at how many big prices ran second or third. i think maybe the best use of this angle is for exotic play.

also, don't ignore new geldings on their second start. it takes awhile to get those nasty hormones out of the system.

[JackS]

I don't think it's much more important than 1st time blinkers or Lasix. Just because the horse will now enter the starting gate with fewer problems doesn't mean he will handle the actual race any different or better. To my mind, not a major factor to be considered in most races. When capping cheap MCL's ,all changes hold a little more importance than their more expensive counterparts running straight maiden.

[cash2]

well... i agree strongly with your remarks about cheapie MCL. a little can go a long way there. otherwise...nah. i think horses are gelded for a lot of reasons other than they are reluctant to load. take a studdish ornery horse and make him a kinder horse who is easier to train and maybe you'll get a fitter faster horse. maybe not, but there's sure a lot of gelding going on back there.

maybe you're right. no more effective than lasix 1 or 2 or blinks on. but the difference is that in a lot of jurisdictions it's a secret. and therein lies it's value. i remember the glory days of lasix when you had to see the vet list in the racing sec's office to see who was running on it. bomb city! or maryland horses shipping to DEL. in md you had to visibly bleed during a race (and maybe a wo), while in del a scope was all you needed. many a form reversal ensued.

not saying that this is the be all end all of handicapping, but if you're a one or two track guy with a reliable source of info it could steer you to some nice exotic payoffs. my understanding is that in CA the vet list is on line and includes gelding info. don't know if there's ever been a study.