Exchange Wagering In NJ

[Jersey Trials]

Does anyone know where Betfair is at with their Exchange in New Jersey? NJ passed Exchange wagering back in 2014 and we still have nothing. I have read multiple stories that stated that they would be up and operational by this month. I also read in the NJ thoroughbred breeders magazine that are going to charge a 12% commission!! I have sat back and waited for exchange wagering to come and unfortunately I think betfair's model will kill any change for it to catch on here in the states. Any thoughts??

[Rise Over Run]

Here's an extensive thread on the subject:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127847

[biggestal99]

http://www.drf.com/news/monmouth-trims-11-million-2016-stakes-schedule

"The positive thing is exchange wagering is coming soon, possible next month," Kulina said "We don't know how big it's going to be, but it could be very special"

this is the latest I have.

Allan

[biggestal99]

well as all should know EW is scheduled to launch in Jersey on May 10th.

bets will be comingled with international bettors.

12% base commission.

still not a lot of information on this, I imagine its still not

I signed up to be a beta tester but have not heard back yet.

Allan

[Jersey Trials]

This is never going to catch on, mark my word. 12% commission, really? This is a sad attempt to recreate the exchange model in Europe. With my current rebate, how much is the difference between what is currently taken out of the win pool vs what would be taken out of the exchange. Don't think I'm going to go on the exchange and try and get my bets matched for a 2% break. What is the incentive for players to switch over? Fixed odds, ok good, ability to to lay or bet against, sure, but at the end of the day there is not much here to be happy about. In race betting will never work, sure if the 4-5 shot is on the lead at Monmouth turning for home, you could risk $100 to win $3.75 but ill pass. Unfortunate this is the first legal exchange tried in the states, they should of started around 6%-7% commission and gave it a chance.

[RunForTheRoses]

Is there a website? If so, link please.

[12/ALL/ALL]

Apparently, from the previous thread on this issue this will be limited to New Jersey residents according to the original agreement. It would be nice if this could be eventually expanded so that out of state residents could participate.

[biggestal99]

This is never going to catch on, mark my word. 12% commission, really? This is a sad attempt to recreate the exchange model in Europe. With my current rebate, how much is the difference between what is currently taken out of the win pool vs what would be taken out of the exchange

well there is the difference of the price. You bet into a tote pool. you effect the odds. In EW you are betting at a fixed price. No fluctuations whatsoever.

another huge, huge advantage is breakage. under a dime breakage a horse that pays 4.00 could actually be paying 4.19. Thats 19 cents per 2 bucks.
That is non-existant with EW. if you back your horse at 2.09 thats what you get.

also there is a cashout feature, lets say you have a front runner and bet 10 bucks. Takes the lead but starts shortening stride and you know he's not gonna win. 10 bucks down the drain. with EW you can get some of your cash back (albeit not a lot).

In-running betting is also a great feature.

Lets say you lay (betting a horse to lose) at 5-1, but the horse is running a gangbusters. you can some your money back by backing him during the running of the race.

Allan

[biggestal99]

Apparently, from the previous thread on this issue this will be limited to New Jersey residents according to the original agreement. It would be nice if this could be eventually expanded so that out of state residents could participate.

I heard that today on the Paulick report that Betfair thinks callie (the only other state with legalized EW) will be on board later this year.

Allan

[SG4]

This is never going to catch on, mark my word. 12% commission, really? This is a sad attempt to recreate the exchange model in Europe. With my current rebate, how much is the difference between what is currently taken out of the win pool vs what would be taken out of the exchange. Don't think I'm going to go on the exchange and try and get my bets matched for a 2% break. What is the incentive for players to switch over? Fixed odds, ok good, ability to to lay or bet against, sure, but at the end of the day there is not much here to be happy about. In race betting will never work, sure if the 4-5 shot is on the lead at Monmouth turning for home, you could risk $100 to win $3.75 but ill pass. Unfortunate this is the first legal exchange tried in the states, they should of started around 6%-7% commission and gave it a chance.

As the 12% commission is only on net total winnings per race you're really getting a better effective takeout than you think. Since there's no extra takeout on losing bets, theoretically you should be able to consistently find prices offered higher than track odds which will benefit in the long run.

Not only is this only for NJ residents right now but I believe you need to be physically in the state while making these wagers as well.

[Stillriledup]

As the 12% commission is only on net total winnings per race you're really getting a better effective takeout than you think. Since there's no extra takeout on losing bets, theoretically you should be able to consistently find prices offered higher than track odds which will benefit in the long run.

Not only is this only for NJ residents right now but I believe you need to be physically in the state while making these wagers as well.

So if you're a resident who's on vacation, you can't bet?

Nice.

[lamboguy]

i am paying about 8% takeout plus breakage after rebates right now, i can bet whatever my heart desires into the pari mutuel pools. so paying 12% is no great deal unless i can get down for big money without effecting my odds. i highly doubt i would be able to get down for more than a $20 bill on the first 2 year old race at Monmouth this summer in the exchange.

[Stillriledup]

i am paying about 8% takeout plus breakage after rebates right now, i can bet whatever my heart desires into the pari mutuel pools. so paying 12% is no great deal unless i can get down for big money without effecting my odds. i highly doubt i would be able to get down for more than a $20 bill on the first 2 year old race at Monmouth this summer in the exchange.

I can see it already, they'll start the exchange for NJ residents only who are physically in the state, get very little action and then naysayers will say "you see, nobody likes exchange wagering".

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I am glad they are trying something new. I doubt I will participate though. I am curious to see the interface and how easy it is to locate someone willing to take the action I want. If I want to be $200 on a horse through the exchange, how many people are willing to accept it? I also dont like using an ADW when on track. Call me old school, but I like having a physical ticket in my hand. Much the same reason I like reading books in print and the form and newspaper in print, even if I have to pay extra for it. I am technologically savvy, but prefer things the old way.

[lamboguy]

I can see it already, they'll start the exchange for NJ residents only who are physically in the state, get very little action and then naysayers will say "you see, nobody likes exchange wagering".i played 3 first time starter's yesterday. one in Aqueduct first race, the horse ran second that i made a decent sized bet on because the pool can handle it, another one at Keeneland 5th race, the horse wound up getting down from a morning line of 10-1 to 5/2 and got another second with a decent sized bet, i had a winner at Parx first race with a much smaller sized bet. so the bottom line is i lost for the day.

if the exchange had enough liquidity in it i would have had the same amount of all 3 and i probably would make millions betting on horses if they find enough people to lay odds on the exchange. in my opinion, the exchange will hurt handles on track and i will be able to bet much less money on first time starters.

if all you can bet is $50 or $100 to win on horses you would make more money driving a cab all day around town with the tips.

[Longshot6977]

I am glad they are trying something new. I doubt I will participate though. I am curious to see the interface and how easy it is to locate someone willing to take the action I want. If I want to be $200 on a horse through the exchange, how many people are willing to accept it? I also dont like using an ADW when on track. Call me old school, but I like having a physical ticket in my hand. Much the same reason I like reading books in print and the form and newspaper in print, even if I have to pay extra for it. I am technologically savvy, but prefer things the old way.

I don't know much about EW yet, but is a single person needed to accept your $200 bet? Can several people accept it (4 guys each at $50) that totals $200? Can just 1/2 of or fraction of the $200 be accepted?

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I don't know much about EW yet, but is a single person needed to accept your $200 bet? Can several people accept it (4 guys each at $50) that totals $200? Can just 1/2 of or fraction of the $200 be accepted?

That is the part of the interface and how it is set up that I am curious about. Is this going to be some sort of chat room where people post things like:

"4th race at Monmouth #1 at 4-1 odds "for" up to $30"

If you wanted to bet up to $200 I would imagine you would have to accept several at the odds you want or close to. It will be interesting for sure, especially with the in race betting. Just think it may be time consuming but with the long times between post at least you have something to do. Just not sure how much you can get down

[MonmouthParkJoe]

On the flip side, it does make it interesting to be a bookmaker. For example, in the stakes race that Twilight Eclipse was in, i absolutely hated him. I think he was like 3-1 ML or something to that effect. I never thought he would win, so in that sense offering people 5-1 or 6-1 on him would have maybe enticed people to take it. I am curious to see how it plays out. It does open up a whole can of worms in that we are now betting on horses to lose. With the exchange wagering in the UK there have been some instances of race fixing recently that clouds this.

[biggestal99]

That is the part of the interface and how it is set up that I am curious about. Is this going to be some sort of chat room where people post things like:

"4th race at Monmouth #1 at 4-1 odds "for" up to $30"

If you wanted to bet up to $200 I would imagine you would have to accept several at the odds you want or close to. It will be interesting for sure, especially with the in race betting. Just think it may be time consuming but with the long times between post at least you have something to do. Just not sure how much you can get down

Everything is up on the interface, the bet for and bet against price and the amount offered at said price, but don,t blink the prices change quite rapidly
It going to be confusing to most old time horse players/much more geared to the younger generation. I have known about ew for a long time so I know the ins and outs, it's a great way to make loot if you can adapt to a fast pace environment. I am gonna make money of that you can be sure.

Allan

[biggestal99]

I don't know much about EW yet, but is a single person needed to accept your $200 bet? Can several people accept it (4 guys each at $50) that totals $200? Can just 1/2 of or fraction of the $200 be accepted?

Sure if you put 200 up at 4.00 and someone matches 10. You got 10 matched and 190 still unmatched.

Allan

[Dave Schwartz]

This is never going to catch on, mark my word. 12% commission, really? This is a sad attempt to recreate the exchange model in Europe. With my current rebate, how much is the difference between what is currently taken out of the win pool vs what would be taken out of the exchange. Don't think I'm going to go on the exchange and try and get my bets matched for a 2% break. What is the incentive for players to switch over? Fixed odds, ok good, ability to to lay or bet against, sure, but at the end of the day there is not much here to be happy about. In race betting will never work, sure if the 4-5 shot is on the lead at Monmouth turning for home, you could risk $100 to win $3.75 but ill pass. Unfortunate this is the first legal exchange tried in the states, they should of started around 6%-7% commission and gave it a chance.

Fixed odds and lay bets are huge.

[VigorsTheGrey]

What kind of odds will be available to bet on horses to lose? If I bet all the horses to lose would not that make for a profitable bet? Only 1 can win.

And what about laying in general. All a jockey would have to do is go like gangbusters early, then let the horse tire out naturally. I mean it is real easy to lose a race.

[AndyC]

What kind of odds will be available to bet on horses to lose? If I bet all the horses to lose would not that make for a profitable bet? Only 1 can win.

And what about laying in general. All a jockey would have to do is go like gangbusters early, then let the horse tire out naturally. I mean it is real easy to lose a race.

When you bet for a horse to lose, you set the odds and hope that someone wants the other side of your bet. If you bet every horse to lose you had better hope that all your bets are covered and that your probabilities add up to more than 100%.

Do you think you can make more money fixing a race betting on an exchange or betting through the tote?

[VigorsTheGrey]

When you bet for a horse to lose, you set the odds and hope that someone wants the other side of your bet. If you bet every horse to lose you had better hope that all your bets are covered and that your probabilities add up to more than 100%.

Do you think you can make more money fixing a race betting on an exchange or betting through the tote?
I am completely ignorant on exchange betting...it just seems to me that it is many times easier to lose a race than to win one. All one has to do is not try then find some guy who thinks your horse CAN win. If because of my connections I know that the horse won't even try then I can be pretty certain that the horse will not win. So it becomes not about the race itself but about finding some mark that is willing to bet on your non trying horse. Exchange betting allows that to happen.

[castaway01]

I am completely ignorant on exchange betting...it just seems to me that it is many times easier to lose a race than to win one. All one has to do is not try then find some guy who thinks your horse CAN win. If because of my connections I know that the horse won't even try then I can be pretty certain that the horse will not win. So it becomes not about the race itself but about finding some mark that is willing to bet on your non trying horse. Exchange betting allows that to happen.

You could apply this to any venture involving humans and wagering, yet somehow billions and billions of dollars are bet every year and the republic hasn't collapsed.

[VigorsTheGrey]

You could apply this to any venture involving humans and wagering, yet somehow billions and billions of dollars are bet every year and the republic hasn't collapsed.

Agreed. And the Republic of Fools is the Punters Paradise.

[AndyC]

I am completely ignorant on exchange betting...it just seems to me that it is many times easier to lose a race than to win one. All one has to do is not try then find some guy who thinks your horse CAN win. If because of my connections I know that the horse won't even try then I can be pretty certain that the horse will not win. So it becomes not about the race itself but about finding some mark that is willing to bet on your non trying horse. Exchange betting allows that to happen.


OK, you are an owner, trainer or jockey and you know your horse is going to lose? How much money could you win by laying your horse on an exchange? Start by realizing that such a bet is illegal and then try to covertly get your bet down. Can't use a friend, they are too easy to trace. Besides, if your friend doesn't have a past history of laying large amounts it would certainly raise eyebrows. And just how many times do you think you could get such a bet down? You would need to find a different bettor each time.

[VigorsTheGrey]

OK, you are an owner, trainer or jockey and you know your horse is going to lose? How much money could you win by laying your horse on an exchange? Start by realizing that such a bet is illegal and then try to covertly get your bet down. Can't use a friend, they are too easy to trace. Besides, if your friend doesn't have a past history of laying large amounts it would certainly raise eyebrows. And just how many times do you think you could get such a bet down? You would need to find a different bettor each time.

Are owners, trainers, and jockeys allowed to bet on horses that they are not associated with? I'm not really up on the rules here?

Can they bet on exactas boxes? Or horizontal wagers that involve more picks that just the one they are on? By entering a horse in a race, does that obligate the trainer to try to win it?

[biggestal99]

OK, you are an owner, trainer or jockey and you know your horse is going to lose? How much money could you win by laying your horse on an exchange? Start by realizing that such a bet is illegal and then try to covertly get your bet down. Can't use a friend, they are too easy to trace. Besides, if your friend doesn't have a past history of laying large amounts it would certainly raise eyebrows. And just how many times do you think you could get such a bet down? You would need to find a different bettor each time.


also You have to be very smart and avoid being redflagged by Betfair's software to detect suspicious betting.

millions are bet to lose on horses and nary is eyebrow raised.

not to say cheating doesn't happen but is it worth it for the few bucks you would make throwing a race.

Betfair has caught many a cheater.

I;d be more concerned about Tennis than horse racing. :-)

http://www.inquisitr.com/3021712/tennis-corruption-48-alerts-over-suspicious-betting-match-fixing-in-2016-so-far/

Allan

[biggestal99]

Are owners, trainers, and jockeys allowed to bet on horses that they are not associated with? I'm not really up on the rules here?

Can they bet on exactas boxes? Or horizontal wagers that involve more picks that just the one they are on?

No exotics on the exchange; Just WPS.

Allan

[VigorsTheGrey]

But I've read that improper behavior related to wagering on the part of horsemen IS a significant issue or cause for concern with this wagering format and I was wondering, since I know very little about it, what was behind the innuendos? Or if there is anything behind it at all and how it was done?

[biggestal99]

But I've read that improper behavior related to wagering on the part of horsemen IS a significant issue or cause for concern with this wagering format and I was wondering, since I know very little about it, what was behind the innuendos? Or if there is anything behind it at all and how it was done?

Literally millions are bet on horses to lose on the exchange everyday with no integrity problems.

its like sports betting, If you wager on hoops then lets say Villanova +6 who to say that bookies didn't get to some of the players to shave some points.

I always wager on horse racing knowing the game is on the up and up the vast majority of races.

Cheating to lose happens in ALL sports not just horse racing.

Allan

[AndyC]

But I've read that improper behavior related to wagering on the part of horsemen IS a significant issue or cause for concern with this wagering format and I was wondering, since I know very little about it, what was behind the innuendos? Or if there is anything behind it at all and how it was done?

In my view it is more significant through the tote. Cheating is always a significant issue when ever gambling is involved. The idea that it is more significant in an exchange where all bets are made through accounts is ridiculous.

[Rutgers]

But I've read that improper behavior related to wagering on the part of horsemen IS a significant issue or cause for concern with this wagering format and I was wondering, since I know very little about it, what was behind the innuendos? Or if there is anything behind it at all and how it was done?


Exchange wagering where people can bet for a horse to lose, obviously provides for more opportunity to “cheat”. Anytime a game offers more ways to win, it also offers more ways to “cheat” to win.

And while it is possible to profit in parimutuel wagering by "stiffing" a horse (usually a heavy favorite), you still need to wager on the winning outcome in order to collect on a bet, but because exchange wagering offer players an option to “lay” a selection, just “stiffing” a horse wins the wager, regardless of who wins. In parimutuel wagering it is not real easy to profit off causing a 5/1 shot to lose, but in exchange wagering it is.

As for wagering through accounts, that probably makes it easier, not harder, to profit off "cheating". Those who want to profit from cheating should have not problem setting up multiple fictitious accounts. And while irregular betting patterns can probably be detected from high volume bettors, it's probably harder to detect those you cheat occasionally, but the occasional cheater hurts the game as well.

The other concern for exchange wagering is who, other than the company running the exchange, is in position to monitor the wagering.(Keep in mind in the 2002 Breeders Cup Pick 6 scandal, it wasn't the bet-taker, Catskill OTB, noticing the irregularity of the wager but NYRA asking the NYSRWB to investigate the tickets that led to the people getting caught.)


Now just because it easier to profit from dishonestly run races doesn’t mean every, or even any, race is going to be crooked. However, if exchange wagering is to be successful it is important for racing to recognize the unique risks associated with exchange wagering.

[Stillriledup]

But I've read that improper behavior related to wagering on the part of horsemen IS a significant issue or cause for concern with this wagering format and I was wondering, since I know very little about it, what was behind the innuendos? Or if there is anything behind it at all and how it was done?

wouldnt improper behavior be easier into blind parimutuel pools vs an exchange wager where every wager is attached to a specific persons account (address, ss number, etc) ?

They don't ask for personal info when you go to a window and bet with cash, so wouldn't that be the obvious choice for shenanigans ?

[biggestal99]

As for wagering through accounts, that probably makes it easier, not harder, to profit off "cheating". Those who want to profit from cheating should have not problem setting up multiple fictitious accounts. And while irregular betting patterns can probably be detected from high volume bettors, it's probably harder to detect those you cheat occasionally, but the occasional cheater hurts the game as well.

.

Multiple accounts? Betfair has caught many people trying to game the system to avoid their Premium charge (a long thread on this appears here) using multiple accounts. BF has sophisticated software to detect fraud.

Don't think the "multiple account" cheat will work.

Allan

[12/ALL/ALL]

Exchange wagering where people can bet for a horse to lose, obviously provides for more opportunity to “cheat”. Anytime a game offers more ways to win, it also offers more ways to “cheat” to win.

And while it is possible to profit in parimutuel wagering by "stiffing" a horse (usually a heavy favorite), you still need to wager on the winning outcome in order to collect on a bet, but because exchange wagering offer players an option to “lay” a selection, just “stiffing” a horse wins the wager, regardless of who wins. In parimutuel wagering it is not real easy to profit off causing a 5/1 shot to lose, but in exchange wagering it is.

As for wagering through accounts, that probably makes it easier, not harder, to profit off "cheating". Those who want to profit from cheating should have not problem setting up multiple fictitious accounts. And while irregular betting patterns can probably be detected from high volume bettors, it's probably harder to detect those you cheat occasionally, but the occasional cheater hurts the game as well.

The other concern for exchange wagering is who, other than the company running the exchange, is in position to monitor the wagering.(Keep in mind in the 2002 Breeders Cup Pick 6 scandal, it wasn't the bet-taker, Catskill OTB, noticing the irregularity of the wager but NYRA asking the NYSRWB to investigate the tickets that led to the people getting caught.)


Now just because it easier to profit from dishonestly run races doesn’t mean every, or even any, race is going to be crooked. However, if exchange wagering is to be successful it is important for racing to recognize the unique risks associated with exchange wagering. Thanks for the fair and thorough analysis of exchange wagering. The only thing I can add is that any expansion of the ways to bet a race will invite those insiders with a proclivity to cheat another way to do just that. The expansion of WPS betting to exacta betting created golden opportunities to stiff a short priced horse. Adding trifecta and later superfecta betting certainly must have made cheaters salivate. The greatest deterrents to cheating are higher purses, effective supervision by first rate racing officials (not political appointment hacks), and severe unforgiving consequences for those caught cheating (Burton Sipp relicensed?). If large nationwide exchange pools are established by allowing offtrack out-of-state participation including ADWs, racing could only benefit in the long run through increased purse money. Betting syndicates will probably embrace exchange betting as it more resembles financial market activity than does traditional horse race wagering. In an industry where fans are passing away every day and are not being replaced by young people, racing must provide more ways for people to bet and participate. There will be cheaters because there have always been cheaters. We just have to relentlessly hunt them and eliminate them as best we can as we try to reverse the steady decline of this sport.

[Stillriledup]

Multiple accounts? Betfair has caught many people trying to game the system to avoid their Premium charge (a long thread on this appears here) using multiple accounts. BF has sophisticated software to detect fraud.

Don't think the "multiple account" cheat will work.

Allan

So if there's sophisticated software to detect fraud why do 'de horsemen' keep saying that exchange wagering is more likely to produce cheating ?

[cj]

So if there's sophisticated software to detect fraud why do 'de horsemen' keep saying that exchange wagering is more likely to produce cheating ?

Where do they say this? Source?

[Fox]

So if there's sophisticated software to detect fraud why do 'de horsemen' keep saying that exchange wagering is more likely to produce cheating ?

Because the sophisticated software only picks up the unsophisticated cheaters.

[Stillriledup]

Where do they say this? Source?

There's plenty of quotes and articles w horsemen talking about exc wagering, did you not know this and that's why you're asking me for sources?

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/116295/exchange-wagering-among-opening-hbpa-topics

[biggestal99]

I am beta testing the jersey exchange. 😀

Yesterday in 15 races I placed 57 bets. Very addictive. Laid 15 horses, 13 loss and 2 won (at 2-1 and 4-1)

Made $$$ even with the 12% commission.

Even locked up 4 races where no matter who won I was winning cash.

Lotsa fun and loot.

All this without a bot, image how much $ I will win when I get one.

Allan

[biggestal99]

There's plenty of quotes and articles w horsemen talking about exc wagering, did you not know this and that's why you're asking me for sources?

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/116295/exchange-wagering-among-opening-hbpa-topics

Did you read the full article, basically Callie doesn,t have ew because betfair doesn,t pay the horsemen enough cash not because cheating issues.

It's all about the Benjamins

Allan

[cj]

There's plenty of quotes and articles w horsemen talking about exc wagering, did you not know this and that's why you're asking me for sources?

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/116295/exchange-wagering-among-opening-hbpa-topics

Since this seems to have stuck in your craw, I'll say the same question the other poster did. I wasn't going to post just to post and say the same thing. Where are the horsemen talking about cheating and exchange wagering in that link?

I've heard people talk about cheating as a potential downside to exchange betting, but not horsemen. Why would they call themselves cheats?

[Jeff P]

SRU is correct about the horsemen in California.

California-based trainer and attorney Darrell Vienna from the above linked to article:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/116295/exchange-wagering-among-opening-hbpa-topics

Vienna disagreed with several points of his fellow panelists.

"It's easier to manipulate a race to lose than to win," Vienna said. "The potential for illicit or nefarious behavior—cheating—is exponentially greater once you allow a consumer to bet on a horse to lose."

I've attended several of the CHRB's open to the public meetings about exchange wagering.

At each of those meetings I saw a parade of owners, trainers, and jockeys take the podium and say they were opposed to exchange wagering for two reasons:

1. In their opinion allowing people to bet horses to lose would be like opening pandora's box.

2. In their opinion the takeout wasn't high enough.

I, of course, do not share these opinions - and at one of the meetings I attended gave a presentation in support of exchange wagering from a bettor's perspective.




-jp

.

[fiznow]

There was a big scandal in UK in 2007 about fixed races and betfair.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486675/Champion-jockey-Kieren-Fallon-threw-27-races-2m-betting-scam.html

[Mike_412]

Anyone else having login issues with the exchange? Earlier today it would just kick me back to the homepage, but not show me as being signed in. Now, it states that it doesn't recognize my login details. Customer service was of no help on the phone other than to say they were doing some work on the exchange earlier and to try again later. Thanks in advance guys.

[cj]

http://crunktrunk.tumblr.com/post/144050402883/exchange-first-impressions

[Jersey Trials]

Does anyone have the URL for the website? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[upthecreek]

Does anyone have the URL for the website? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Suppose to be able to access it from 4NJBets.com I haven't checked I'm fed up with them
Try this
https://promotions.us.betfair.com/new-jersey-exchange-beta-new-version

[o_crunk]

Does anyone have the URL for the website? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

https://exchange.us.betfair.com/#/

[mike1958]

Anyone know what tracks will be offered on Betfair for New Jersey residents ?

[Mike_412]

I wasn't sure whether to ask here or in the computer forum of this website, but I'm wondering if anyone here would know.

I can sign in to the exchange through my iPad provided location services are on. I can sign in to the exchange through my laptop which is running Windows 8 and is on wireless without issue. My desktop, which is running Windows 7 and is a hard wired connection, won't allow me to sign on.

I get a message that states they are unable to confirm that I am located in the state of NJ. The TVG supervisor I spoke with tried to help, but was confused by the issue as am I. I even tried buying a wireless usb adapter to access the internet from my desktop to see if it made a difference. It let me sign in one time and then right back to the unable to confirm I'm in NJ message of aggravation.

Naturally, I do most of my wagering from my desktop. I'm allowing the website to access my location and I've cleared my cache. I'm at a loss. If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

I should add that from last Wednesday until yesterday I have not had this problem. Not sure if that makes a difference or not.

[castaway01]

I wasn't sure whether to ask here or in the computer forum of this website, but I'm wondering if anyone here would know.

I can sign in to the exchange through my iPad provided location services are on. I can sign in to the exchange through my laptop which is running Windows 8 and is on wireless without issue. My desktop, which is running Windows 7 and is a hard wired connection, won't allow me to sign on.

I get a message that states they are unable to confirm that I am located in the state of NJ. The TVG supervisor I spoke with tried to help, but was confused by the issue as am I. I even tried buying a wireless usb adapter to access the internet from my desktop to see if it made a difference. It let me sign in one time and then right back to the unable to confirm I'm in NJ message of aggravation.

Naturally, I do most of my wagering from my desktop. I'm allowing the website to access my location and I've cleared my cache. I'm at a loss. If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

I should add that from last Wednesday until yesterday I have not had this problem. Not sure if that makes a difference or not.

I had the same issue initially but then was able to log on---could it just be opening day glitches where they were down for a bit here and there? I don't have any advice but I'll let you know if I have any issues tomorrow.

[Mike_412]

I had the same issue initially but then was able to log on---could it just be opening day glitches where they were down for a bit here and there? I don't have any advice but I'll let you know if I have any issues tomorrow.

Thanks man. Hoping it's some kind of glitch. Good luck.

[Longshot6977]

I wasn't sure whether to ask here or in the computer forum of this website, but I'm wondering if anyone here would know.

I can sign in to the exchange through my iPad provided location services are on. I can sign in to the exchange through my laptop which is running Windows 8 and is on wireless without issue. My desktop, which is running Windows 7 and is a hard wired connection, won't allow me to sign on.

I get a message that states they are unable to confirm that I am located in the state of NJ. The TVG supervisor I spoke with tried to help, but was confused by the issue as am I. I even tried buying a wireless usb adapter to access the internet from my desktop to see if it made a difference. It let me sign in one time and then right back to the unable to confirm I'm in NJ message of aggravation.

Naturally, I do most of my wagering from my desktop. I'm allowing the website to access my location and I've cleared my cache. I'm at a loss. If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

I should add that from last Wednesday until yesterday I have not had this problem. Not sure if that makes a difference or not.

This is just like NJ online Casino gaming, it needs to verify you are physically located in NJ. I used this item on my wired desktop with no problem: Netgear N300 WIFI USB adapter. I think it may be site problems at this point because I had similar issues with casino games in the beginning. Unless you are located near a NJ border where the system has some difficulty, it should work fine.

[no breathalyzer]

boy i really wish i could be apart of this.... i would crush it if allowed to on the NYRA tracks GUARANTEED

[no breathalyzer]

Do they show the persons record or profits when offering odds? The only way i wouldn't crush it is if i stopped getting action

[biggestal99]

This is just like NJ online Casino gaming, it needs to verify you are physically located in NJ. I used this item on my wired desktop with no problem: Netgear N300 WIFI USB adapter. I think it may be site problems at this point because I had similar issues with casino games in the beginning. Unless you are located near a NJ border where the system has some difficulty, it should work fine.

They sent me an email saying they using a 3rd party Geo Comply to make sure you are in Jersey.

Allan

[12/ALL/ALL]

I wasn't sure whether to ask here or in the computer forum of this website, but I'm wondering if anyone here would know.

I can sign in to the exchange through my iPad provided location services are on. I can sign in to the exchange through my laptop which is running Windows 8 and is on wireless without issue. My desktop, which is running Windows 7 and is a hard wired connection, won't allow me to sign on.

I get a message that states they are unable to confirm that I am located in the state of NJ. The TVG supervisor I spoke with tried to help, but was confused by the issue as am I. I even tried buying a wireless usb adapter to access the internet from my desktop to see if it made a difference. It let me sign in one time and then right back to the unable to confirm I'm in NJ message of aggravation.

Naturally, I do most of my wagering from my desktop. I'm allowing the website to access my location and I've cleared my cache. I'm at a loss. If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

I should add that from last Wednesday until yesterday I have not had this problem. Not sure if that makes a difference or not. Years ago, on Bet America it would insist that I was actually in New Hampshire when I was home in Connecticut. I'm not an IT savant so take anything that I say with a grain of salt but I believe they said it was due to the ISP having to use out of state servers because of temporary local overload. It's possible at my age that this may not be an entirely accurate memory of the event.

[Mike_412]

Thanks guys. I got it working last night after reading suggestions in a poker forum when casino gaming came online and there were geolocation issues. A wireless adapter like mentioned above does the trick. It just needs to read at least 2 signals. This was confirmed to me when a nice woman from TVG called me to see if I got my situation rectified. I have to give them credit as they followed up not once, but twice.

Best of luck everyone.

[castaway01]

Thanks guys. I got it working last night after reading suggestions in a poker forum when casino gaming came online and there were geolocation issues. A wireless adapter like mentioned above does the trick. It just needs to read at least 2 signals. This was confirmed to me when a nice woman from TVG called me to see if I got my situation rectified. I have to give them credit as they followed up not once, but twice.

Best of luck everyone.

Nice to hear something positive about customer service in the industry, and congrats on getting things set up over there. Now we all just need to win some cash.

[Mike_412]

Nice to hear something positive about customer service in the industry, and congrats on getting things set up over there. Now we all just need to win some cash.

Thanks man. Considering the amount of poor customer service I've received in this industry over the years, a simple follow up call followed by a nice, brief conversation was a welcome surprise. It's the little things.

For any of you on the fence about exchange wagering consider the following - My dumb a$$ took 1/2 a day to get my simple geolocation issues straightened out. I'm your competition lol.

[biggestal99]

. This was confirmed to me when a nice woman from TVG called me to see if I got my situation rectified. I have to give them credit as they followed up not once, but twice.



They really, really want EW to work, so I am sure they told the customer facing employees to make sure there are no problems with users.

so far so good with me except I work in NYC and can't place bets on the train home until I cross the river.

good luck Castaway and MIke. seeya on the exchange.

Allan

[castaway01]

They really, really want EW to work, so I am sure they told the customer facing employees to make sure there are no problems with users.

so far so good with me except I work in NYC and can't place bets on the train home until I cross the river.

good luck Castaway and MIke. seeya on the exchange.

Allan

Thanks. I glanced at the site today (no problem logging on) but they've only got LA Downs and Evangeline. I admit I don't know a thing about those tracks so I decided to pass on wagering today. Maybe on Saturday when Monmouth opens.

[SG4]

Pretty sure the exchange refunds your bet if you have a late scratch, correct? However, if you have fixed odds on another horse in that race will those be affected as well? Just thinking it could be amazing/catastrophic depending which side of the bet you are if odds aren't adjusted & say a heavy favorite scratches in the gate. Would runners declared non-starters due to an issue at the break be handled the same way?

[shank]

each horse has a reduction factor,so if the favorite is a late scratch.the prices on all horses will be reduced by the reduction factor listed to the left of the horse number. same for non starter. there are no entries on betfair,and on occasion the market makers don't seem to know which one is the fast horse.

[12/ALL/ALL]

I was hoping to get a definitive answer to this question: Are the NJ exchange pool and the Betfair.com exchange pool of international players commingled? If they are it would seem to have ramifications for the state poker sites in NJ, Delaware, and Nevada. Commingling in exchange betting creates a great deal of much needed liquidity. Sharing the player pool of Poker Stars in Europe with the American Poker Stars would be a huge boost to online poker here. Why would the DOJ permit one and forbid the other?

[biggestal99]

Thanks. I glanced at the site today (no problem logging on) but they've only got LA Downs and Evangeline. I admit I don't know a thing about those tracks so I decided to pass on wagering today. Maybe on Saturday when Monmouth opens.

well I did like 1 horse to lay yesterday. The ashman in the 3rd at LAD.

HOrse was 8-1 on the tote but a mere 54-1 on the exchange.

needless to say i passed.

Those bots are sharpies as The Ashman finished last.

Allan

[shank]

comingled

[Mike_412]

I just noticed that the exchange skips over races with an entry. Out of curiosity, does anyone know the reason why?

[o_crunk]

I just noticed that the exchange skips over races with an entry. Out of curiosity, does anyone know the reason why?

If a race has coupled entries, it's not offered.

[castaway01]

While I cannot report getting rich from exchange wagering, I did mess around with a few races today just for a few bucks. Looks like fun. We just need to get some of the tracks that I really like to bet, and maybe down the road that will happen. The interface was smooth though, everything worked okay, no issues.

[AltonKelsey]

That's new, I believe. I recall seeing them offer separate betting on each entrant. Was the rule changed?

Seems odd they would not offer the race at all.

[Mike_412]

I caught a little of the DRF webinar with the exchange director earlier today. He stated something along the lines of rules concerning entries being different in the U.S. and England so they're choosing not to include races involving coupled entries as of now. It may change in a few months. I'm paraphrasing, but I'm sure DRF has it archived if you're interested in listening.

I do wish the market rate and any applicable discounts were spelled out on the site. I wonder if 4NJbets customers come in at a different rate based on our previous play.

The thing I find funny is that normally when home on a Friday night at this time I'd be watching a Seinfeld rerun. Instead I'm kicking back and betting Emerald Downs. It's an extremely fun way to bet.

[daveyj]

The bid and asks are not very large, but if you are willing to bet $5 at a time, this is really fun. When confronted with a race in which one has no clue what is going to happen, just lay $5 on the favorite and watch the race. Experience the thrill when some 15-1 shot with no chance comes flying to nip the favorite at the wire to score you a $4.40 profit.

[AltonKelsey]

Notice no Betfair betting on BELMONT at all today. Did NYRA kick them out?

[fiznow]

The bid and asks are not very large, but if you are willing to bet $5 at a time, this is really fun. When confronted with a race in which one has no clue what is going to happen, just lay $5 on the favorite and watch the race. Experience the thrill when some 15-1 shot with no chance comes flying to nip the favorite at the wire to score you a $4.40 profit.

So I get 4,40$ for a 15-1 shot, well...;)

[upthecreek]

Ive read the info on Betfair but still dont quite understand If a horse is 5.0 on the exchange,and say I just bet $2 what does it pay? I heard the TVG guys say deduct 1 point,then I heard Matt C say just double the odds and thats what you get? Any explanation would be appreciated.

[cj]

Ive read the info on Betfair but still dont quite understand If a horse is 5.0 on the exchange,and say I just bet $2 what does it pay? I heard the TVG guys say deduct 1 point,then I heard Matt C say just double the odds and thats what you get? Any explanation would be appreciated.

Both are correct.

If the price is 5.0, deduct one for true odds of 4.0, or double the 5.0 and that is your payout for a $2 bet, $10. That is also 4.0 to 1.

[upthecreek]

Both are correct.

If the price is 5.0, deduct one for true odds of 4.0, or double the 5.0 and that is your payout for a $2 bet, $10. That is also 4.0 to 1.
Thanks CJ Understand now I screwed myself then in the 4th Id bet the #8 @ 4-1, i think I seen 4.9 on Exchange

[cj]

Thanks CJ Understand now I screwed myself then in the 4th Id bet the #8 @ 4-1, i think I seen 4.9 on Exchange

You did ok though, right? The 4.9 is 3.9 to 1 odds.

[biggestal99]

I can see it already, they'll start the exchange for NJ residents only who are physically in the state, get very little action and then naysayers will say "you see, nobody likes exchange wagering".

Most races at Monmouth have between 20k and 40k of matched bets.

But the prices have been insane I got matched at 3.6 on a 5.40 horse (Quigley's Corner)

Best thing that's happened to a horseplayer like me in a long time.

Allan

[upthecreek]

[QUOTE=cj]You did ok though, right? The 4.9 is 3.9 to 1 odds.[/QUOT
You're right told you I was confused LOL

[biggestal99]

my commission is not 12%

It's approx 9.7%

Don't know why.

Allan

[SandyW]

One thing for sure living in Las Vegas since 1972 and not moving anywhere else, we will be the very last horse players to have fun with exchange betting.

[dlisenberg]

Do I do this through the 4NJ bets site or is there a separate site for exchange wagering?

[biggestal99]

Do I do this through the 4NJ bets site or is there a separate site for exchange wagering?

Exchange.us.betfair.com

Allan

[upthecreek]

Do I do this through the 4NJ bets site or is there a separate site for exchange wagering?
Look @ post #51 in this thread

[castaway01]

Most races at Monmouth have between 20k and 40k of matched bets.

But the prices have been insane I got matched at 3.6 on a 5.40 horse (Quigley's Corner)

Best thing that's happened to a horseplayer like me in a long time.

Allan

I agree, there definitely are some good prices out there if you keep a keen eye out. I don't know if you could get a huge bet matched but for the average bettor it's looking like a big plus.

[VigorsTheGrey]

What are the odds that droves of small horse players may now be considering a move to New Jersy? You mean there's the reality of getting 5-1 on 9/5 favs on a consistent basis? But you need to live in Jersy right? How long before other states follow suit? Spells the end for Tracks as run today? I don't see how this could be goods news for Tracks...

[zerosky]

The exchange line is is just as smart if not smarter than the line generated by the pools. If you lose by betting the pools you will also lose by betting the exchanges. The size of the loss will be reduced because of the lower commission between the exchange and the tote.

In short your betting dollar will go further but for most people it will be extinguished by the commission.

You can get historical data here (http://data.betfair.com/)

[biggestal99]

I agree, there definitely are some good prices out there if you keep a keen eye out. I don't know if you could get a huge bet matched but for the average bettor it's looking like a big plus.

well I should not give away this little angle, I match a good price for lets say 5 bucks, I put those odds right back for the odds for 20 or 30.

Hooks the fish most times out.

Allan

[biggestal99]

The exchange line is is just as smart if not smarter than the line generated by the pools. If you lose by betting the pools you will also lose by betting the exchanges. The size of the loss will be reduced because of the lower commission between the exchange and the tote.

In short your betting dollar will go further but for most people it will be extinguished by the commission.

You can get historical data here (http://data.betfair.com/)

you are right. The exchange line is good at the end, however before the end there are many good opportunities before the dust has settled, a sharp horseplayer locks in really good odds and then doesn't have to worry about the odds after that.

Allan

[daveyj]

How long before other states follow suit? Spells the end for Tracks as run today? I don't see how this could be goods news for Tracks...

This is good news for tracks because I'm spending my Sunday night pouring over and betting $2,500 claimers from Emerald Downs. No way I would be doing that if it weren't for the extra entertainment value that comes with exchange betting.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Do the Tracks get anything from BetFair? If I am gambling through BetFair, how could that be good for the Tracks? The Tracks are struggling as it is...I see BetFair as coffin nails...Track death by a million small bites...explain how I'm wrong on this...

[cj]

Do the Tracks get anything from BetFair? If I am gambling through BetFair, how could that be good for the Tracks? The Tracks are struggling as it is...I see BetFair as coffin nails...Track death by a million small bites...explain how I'm wrong on this...

Why would you think tracks aren't getting a cut?

[VigorsTheGrey]

[QUOTE=cj]Why would you think tracks aren't getting a cut?[/QUOTE

That's good! How much? I like the idea of exchange betting when I saw on TVG yesterday that one could get way better odds on the top two runners....what more could a bettor ask for? What would be the average payout of a favorite need to be in order to achieve a positive ROI? If you could get 5 to 1 consistently on top choices...that is huge.

Glad the Tracks are getting a cut.

[castaway01]

[QUOTE=cj]Why would you think tracks aren't getting a cut?[/QUOTE

That's good! How much? I like the idea of exchange betting when I saw on TVG yesterday that one could get way better odds on the top two runners....what more could a bettor ask for? What would be the average payout of a favorite need to be in order to achieve a positive ROI? If you could get 5 to 1 consistently on top choices...that is huge.

Glad the Tracks are getting a cut.

The average payout you need to win would depend on the win percentage of the horses you pick.

[VigorsTheGrey]

[QUOTE=VigorsTheGrey]

The average payout you need to win would depend on the win percentage of the horses you pick.

Let's say the public favorite with a win clip of 37%. What average payout would give a 20% ROI? Include a 12% commission.

[green80]

with a 12% reduction that 5/1 pays less than 9/2

[upthecreek]

with a 12% reduction that 5/1 pays less than 9/2
That's correct I did a little math You need at least 1.5 points or more on exchange to make it worthwhile I'f a horsre is 4-1 tote your need 5.5 on exchange

[VigorsTheGrey]

That's correct I did a little math You need at least 1.5 points or more on exchange to make it worthwhile I'f a horsre is 4-1 tote your need 5.5 on exchange

What if the horse is 1 to 1, what odds would you need just to have an even bet?

[zerosky]

What if the horse is 1 to 1, what odds would you need just to have an even bet?

To work out the equivalent odds for use the following formulae

[Tote odds/(1-Commission)]+1

so for an even shot = [1/(1-0.12)]+1 = 2.14

however horses at even odds win at a clip of about 40% so you would need just about 2.5 to break even.

[VigorsTheGrey]

To work out the equivalent odds for use the following formulae

[Tote odds/(1-Commission)]+1

so for an even shot = [1/(1-0.12)]+1 = 2.14

however horses at even odds win at a clip of about 40% so you would need just about 2.5 to break even.

What happens if the entire field is layed? In a field of 10, 9 always lose.

[biggestal99]

What happens if the entire field is layed? In a field of 10, 9 always lose.

If chalk wins you make out like a bandit, however if prices are coming in well......

Also remember if the odds for betting a horse to win are higher, so is the price to lay the horse.

I gave an example of a 8-1 on the tote being 50-1 on the exchange.

Allan

[daveyj]

From the DRF article:

"Betfair will make money off the exchange by charging customers a 12 percent fee on any net gains from wagers made on one race for a single bet type. In other words, if a player makes a variety of win bets on a race totaling $1,000 and cashes one of the bets for $1,100, the commission will be 12 percent of the $100 net gain. If the player breaks even or loses money, no commission is charged.

The Betfair commission structure differs significantly from the revenue structure of the parimutuel model, where approximately 20 percent of each pool is extracted prior to payouts being calculated and distributed, a system designed to provide payments to various racing constituencies. Because Betfair is expected to generate far less per dollar wagered in commissions than the existing parimutuel system, many horsemen’s groups have resisted calls to adopt the practice in the U.S., citing fears of significant revenue losses. Betfair supporters contend that exchange wagering will broaden racing’s fan base and betting handle, creating a net gain for a struggling industry."

This commission on net gains model is far more bettor friendly than any parimutuel takeout model will ever be. So for all of us who have been clamoring for lower takeouts all of these years, exchange betting is the holy grail. We need to act now to make sure this becomes the future, and not just some failed experiment.

So:
(1) We need to use exchange betting whenever possible.
(2) We need to focus on the tracks that make themselves available to exchange betting, such as MTH, EvD, EMD, and MNR. Use exchange betting for the WPS wagers, and use the parimutual pools for the exotic wagers, but support these specific tracks to show them that exchange betting works. Why bet at a Stronach track that specifically forbids exchange betting in their contract when we can change the future for the better?

[biggestal99]

So:
(1) We need to use exchange betting whenever possible.
(2) We need to focus on the tracks that make themselves available to exchange betting, such as MTH, EvD, EMD, and MNR. Use exchange betting for the WPS wagers, and use the parimutual pools for the exotic wagers, but support these specific tracks to show them that exchange betting works. Why bet at a Stronach track that specifically forbids exchange betting in their contract when we can change the future for the better?

I promise.

Its a real good deal for any Jersey horseplayer.

I'd throw Woodbine, Will Rogers Downs and Tampa Bay down along with Keeneland, Charlestown and Mountianeer too, Meadowlands harness is also in the mix.

Allan

[cj]

Anyone know how dead heats are handled? Do you get full odds? Half?

[castaway01]

Anyone know how dead heats are handled? Do you get full odds? Half?

I believe you get half, though I couldn't find anything explaining that clearly that wasn't in pounds and not dollars (I'm sure it's out there somewhere).

[daveyj]

Anyone know how dead heats are handled? Do you get full odds? Half?

Pretty much what you would expect mathematically. See http://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Rules.and.Regulations/ for full explanation. Search on the page for "Dead Heats".

[mike1958]

IN RUNNING pools are a joke....Notice that a little money appears on the Back Side early in the race with almost nothing on the Lay side. Before the horses hit the stretch most of the money gets cancelled. Lucky to get 1.06 on a 40 to 1 shot in the stretch. Also races are suspended well before wire at times. Thought market would be still open in cases of a close photo finish and inquiries like on British racing. The way it is now stinks - NO LIQUIDITY !!!!!

[mike1958]

What a Joke !
Race 8 at Charles Town (2016/05/20) Distance of 1 1/16
Not only is there very little money on IN-PLAY(In-Running) Betfair suspends the race when they pass finish line for the first time...

No point for me to move to New Jersey now LOL

[davew]

IN RUNNING pools are a joke....Notice that a little money appears on the Back Side early in the race with almost nothing on the Lay side. Before the horses hit the stretch most of the money gets cancelled. Lucky to get 1.06 on a 40 to 1 shot in the stretch. Also races are suspended well before wire at times. Thought market would be still open in cases of a close photo finish and inquiries like on British racing. The way it is now stinks - NO LIQUIDITY !!!!!

How do you know if the race finished? are you at the track?

[biggestal99]

IN RUNNING pools are a joke....Notice that a little money appears on the Back Side early in the race with almost nothing on the Lay side. Before the horses hit the stretch most of the money gets cancelled. Lucky to get 1.06 on a 40 to 1 shot in the stretch. Also races are suspended well before wire at times. Thought market would be still open in cases of a close photo finish and inquiries like on British racing. The way it is now stinks - NO LIQUIDITY !!!!!

That's an easy one, bad streaming from betfair, no layers can see a live feed so.....no money

Betfair needs to work on getting all bettors a live feed.

Problem solved.

Allan

[daveyj]

What a Joke !
Race 8 at Charles Town (2016/05/20) Distance of 1 1/16
Not only is there very little money on IN-PLAY(In-Running) Betfair suspends the race when they pass finish line for the first time...

No point for me to move to New Jersey now LOL

In that Charles Town race, once the 1-5 favorite Charitable Annuity broke well from the gate and secured an easy stalking spot right behind the 20-1 cheap speed, the race was basically over.

Anyway, live sites are hard to get right and it is great that they are even trying to do in-race betting. I would give them some time to work out the kinks before passing judgement.

[mike1958]

How do you know if the race finished? are you at the track?

Was watching race on low definition 5 second delayed RTN feed. Betfair suspended 10 seconds before they reached the wire on my feed which means they suspended race 5 seconds early....??????

[mike1958]

Anyway, live sites are hard to get right and it is great that they are even trying to do in-race betting. I would give them some time to work out the kinks before passing judgement.

I would agree with you if they were just starting from scratch. But they have been in business around 15 years. Should be no excuse. As a matter of fact Betfair has been offering INPLAY betting on US Horse Racing now since October 2015. Liquidity was much better then. Steadily getting worse since. Too bad since it would add a fantastic element to the game !!!

[mike1958]

That's an easy one, bad streaming from betfair, no layers can see a live feed so.....no money

Betfair needs to work on getting all bettors a live feed.

Problem solved.

Allan

Monitoring the US Horse Markets it is clear to me that Betfair is receiving a real time feed to manage these markets. I was also under the impression that they seed the markets... Pre and during INPLAY....so why the lack of money present especially now when they should be promoting their full blown product in New Jersey???

[Seabiscuit@AR]

In the run betting liquidity is drying up even on the UK races

Betfair have never been able to provide a fair playing field for in the run betting. Players live on track clean up while almost everyone else loses. Over time the losers with the slow pictures give up and the game dies out

[sunshine]

If you Lay the field to proportional stakes, the total book % on the race has to be over 100 to make a profit in the Win market, over 200 in the 2 Place market and over 300 in the 3 Place market, 400 4 Place market etc. If you lay the field below these figures you will lose on the race.

If you Back the field to proportional stakes, the total book % on the race has to be below the above figures.

Commission is presently paid on profit per market. Some operate very sophisticated robots. It’s not easy, probably best testing on small fields that go In-Play with say 6 runners or less. Best of luck.

[AltonKelsey]

In the run betting liquidity is drying up even on the UK races

Betfair have never been able to provide a fair playing field for in the run betting. Players live on track clean up while almost everyone else loses. Over time the losers with the slow pictures give up and the game dies out

Anyone with a clue would have know this would be the end game from day 1, unless you can somehow provide a never ending stream of suckers.

[zerosky]

In play betting is more suited to to events lasting longer than 2 minutes. Its akin to market trading where people either close out losing positions or lock in winning ones. Although there are opportunities based upon the running styles of horses.

[sunshine]

In play betting is more suited to to events lasting longer than 2 minutes. Its akin to market trading where people either close out losing positions or lock in winning ones. Although there are opportunities based upon the running styles of horses.

What if you get a tight finish in races that last under 2 minutes, could perhaps Lay 2 or more runners at very short prices. The skimming robots beat you that’s the only problem.

[AltonKelsey]

I would think the biggest problem is access to the live event. Anyone on site has an automatic huge edge.

Would not take much for the well heeled to have people at every track, betting against your delayed feed.

Over time they would have to be the big winners.

[upthecreek]

Drf is having a free Webinar on Exchange wagering @ Mth Park, Friday 2-3 Eastern
Sorry I don't have a link,I received info via email

[castaway01]

Boring as it may be, I've found the best value thus far is you can get 2-1 or even 3-1 in the exchange on a lot of horses that end up 3-5 in the pools. Unfortunately the tracks they offer aren't any that I play regularly. However, no glitches or other issues that I've seen. If you like the tracks they offer, looks like you can have some real fun.

[biggestal99]

for me, its laying horses. Lots of newbies are fearful of betting 300 to win 100. Not me. I find a sure loser and start betting, not in one swoop but dollar cost averaging. sure occasionally you lose but as long as you can average 75%-80% losers on 3-1 (4.00 on the exchange) shots you can make a lot of loot.

Allan

[therussmeister]

for me, its laying horses. Lots of newbies are fearful of betting 300 to win 100. Not me. I find a sure loser and start betting, not in one swoop but dollar cost averaging. sure occasionally you lose but as long as you can average 75%-80% losers on 3-1 (4.00 on the exchange) shots you can make a lot of loot.

Allan
Personally, I'd rather just play show bets.

[sunshine]

You have to Lay below True odds or Back above True odds on a regular basis to make it pay. Price range in the Win or Place markets is irrelevant. Check bets against the betting exchange SP, if you consistently Back above SP or Lay below SP, chances are that your bets will eventually show a profit, but if you consistently Back below the SP or Lay above SP, chances are that your bets will eventually show a loss. It can be done but it’s not easy. In-play is another matter.

[biggestal99]

You have to Lay below True odds or Back above True odds on a regular basis to make it pay. Price range in the Win or Place markets is irrelevant. Check bets against the betting exchange SP, if you consistently Back above SP or Lay below SP, chances are that your bets will eventually show a profit, but if you consistently Back below the SP or Lay above SP, chances are that your bets will eventually show a loss. It can be done but it’s not easy. In-play is another matter.

what if you lay SP, I have done that a few times (along with other bets)
and done decently.

I saw a few markets where the price was quite volatile and I really didn't like the horse's form so I put some $$$ in the SP along with locked odds lay bets.

Allan

[Mike_412]

For the 1st week or 2 I was paying 9.6% commission now I'm at the advertised 12%. Is anyone paying under 12%? I was just wondering if there's a volume based discount as I haven't bet that much yet. Thanks.

[sunshine]

what if you lay SP, I have done that a few times (along with other bets)
and done decently.

I saw a few markets where the price was quite volatile and I really didn't like the horse's form so I put some $$$ in the SP along with locked odds lay bets.

Allan

Hi Allan, I have never played the SP but you do right setting your max/min odds on the SP, don’t want to be liable for a 1000.00 SP winner. Believe it or not this has happened in the past, not me thankfully but as I said previously, positions have to be closed in the US to reduce the commission payments. Don’t know if you can gain an advantage by closing your position at SP. Even on busy markets SP bets are not always matched.