bankroll

[anotherdave]

I know there are a couple of pros on this board - use handicapping for their sole income - as well as a few who make a nice bit of extra cash on the side from handicapping.

Assuming someone feels that they are ready to take this game to the next level (not me - yet) and are confident enough that they can make a steady income, what sort of bankroll do you think would be necessary. This is money mostly in reserve, not needed until the inevitable losing streak comes along.

Now, I realize that will depend on what type of player you are. If you only win 1 in 5 but get nice prices the answer would be likely be higher than if you win 30% of the time and get a decent average say $8.

I can guess at the number, figure out ROIs and total amount bet etc. - but that's just math. I am hoping there are some people here that have lived or are living the experience and can pass on some of their wisdom!

[karlskorner]

Anotherdave;
If you intend to make hanndicapping your only income I would suggest the following:

Frist I would sit down and add up your fixed monthly expenses, include dinners out, movies and what ever else you normally do. In other words get some idea what you are going to need each month, without going overboard. Add a cushion of 10% for emergencies. Times it for 6 months.

Why 6 months? Because you are going to "freeze up". You will make horrible mistakes, you will have to learn to take the good with the bad. There is no pay check at the end of the week.Your method of play depends on what works for you. Consider it as going into a "business" on your own. Do not and I repeat Do Not borrow the money. You will work harder and longer hours than you ever have in your entire life. Thats the down side.

The up side, there ain't nobody going to fire you, you don't have to peek over the cubicle to see who is watching you. You are free and have cast off the yolk and the satisfaction of knowing you can do it is one of the best garments you will ever wear.

Karl

[anotherdave]

Thanks for the advice, karlskorner. Seems very wise, as you have lived it. I certainly want to make sure that I have enough in the bank before I attempt such a bold venture.

I am going to do a semi-pro thing this spring. I have two months holidays saved up and will probably take another month off too. I am going to put all my energies to the races from May 1- August 1 and see how it goes. Now it won't quite be like the real thing, but it will give me an idea if I'm cut out for it.

Now Karl, if things goes well this spring and I decide to give it a shot later. (Assume I have the 6 months expenses saved up to deal with day-to-day stuff), how much would you suggest for a starting bankroll for my new business? Or is that too hard to say? I just don't want to be underfinanced!

Also if it isn't too personal, do you take a weekly or monthly draw
from winnings. I'm just curious, how does one take money from his/her bankroll to meet expenses once things get going?

[smf]

anotherdave,

I echo what Karl said about NOT borrowing money to handicap fulltime. In my case to be comfortable w/ my decision I retired all loans. If you're in debt (mortgage, car, etc) the mind game w/b pretty tough (for most of us). If you have a mortgage, I'd personally have at least 10-12 months socked away. Nothing w/b worse than getting off on a losing streak and having the move fail right off.

I think you'll find the answers to your bankroll/ bet size, etc ,, questions in your 3 month test run. Also, you'll find out that jumping from $100 win bets to $400+ and above (if that's what it takes) takes a little more courage than most think. Until your livelihood depends on wagering income, those are just numbers scribbled on a sheet of paper for the "what if" game. It becomes a very real subject quickly.

In all honesty tho, I wouldn't recommend making that plunge until you earn your targeted income for 2 consecutive years prior to walking away from the job.>>>>>That's just my opinion. You'll know when it's the right time for you.

For withdrawals, I believe karl wagers on track only (i m/b mistaken). I have a set ceiling limit for my phone account. When I'm over it, I withdraw.

Good luck, AD. I wish you the best this spring and hope it all turns out well for you. One last opinion, I think you really could read Collison's book for some tips on "turning pro". You don't have to read about claims, but his life experience of wagering for a living is pretty much on target in the chapter "money management"......Long, long hours and you'll need to keep a passion for what you're doing. However there's no substitute for being your own boss, or being able to control your own destiny.

Good luck!:)

[boxcar]

Anotherdave,

You've been getting excellent advice. The primary thing you need to remember before embarking on a career of turf speculation is that you must avoid the deadly pitfall of starting out undercapitalized. Just as you probably wouldn't dream of engaging in a "normal business venture" with too little capital, so, too, you will need to think of turf speculation as a business venture.

How much you will need, only you can answer. If your life isn't mortgaged to the hilt and you're a single guy, for example, you could probably start your venture with about 30K -- about 2/3 of it could be devoted to living expenses for those first 8 to 12 months, and the balance would go toward your BR.

But if you have your fair share of monthly financial obligations to meet and a family to support -- that would be an entirely different story. You may need about 75K or more to get off the ground. What I would do is sit down and carefully calculate what your annual expenses have been for the last two years. Take the highest of the two years and add another 20% to that fig just for prudence's sake. Once you've determined this number, add your your starting BR to that number.
(I would think a BR of 5K would be sufficient to start, as each win bet you make should never exceed 1% of your betting capital, anyway.)

If you intend to play from home, as I do, make frequent withdrawls. No sense in letting the betting service hold on to your money.

I wish you the very best.

Boxcar

[anotherdave]

Thanks smf and boxcar. More sage advice!

Smf, you mention Collison's book. You mean "Inside the Claiming Game", I assume? That's one of the few I don't have!

I'll give it a look.

AD

[smf]

Anotherdave,

Sorry, yes that's the one. You may want to run a search on the sources to buy a copy. Two yrs ago ITS was selling it for double what ATM did.

[karlskorner]

Anotherdave:

So far between Dick Schmidt on another post and the above you have received some excellent advise. Scary, isn't it ?

From here on in you are "on your own". Size of bankroll etc. depends on your method of play. Keep in mind your are running a business, so act acordingly.

As for books on the subject, this is someone elses opinion, reminds me of going up to a stranger at the track and asking "Who do you like ?"

Karl

[weatherman]

anotherdave most of the pro's i know are either selling programs ,books, tip sheets. what do you want to make a week, thats where you start, you said you have 3 months before you start fighting the horse's, do you want to make $100 with a $1000 or a $1000 with a $100 ? if you can't pay off what you owe in 3 months betting the horse's. then don't quit the day job. with no job income a sure cure for hemriods. In over 30 years of betting the horse's i've known a dozen people that took $5000 or more to the track every day, but none of them survived, except me and Speck and i think he died and Now i only take a $100 or $150 to the track now, i play mostly the exotics, trifectas,pick3's & 4's, place all , and when there's no carry over in the pick6, i play a small ticket there. I may bet a horses to win, but i know something when i do. if you have $30 or 40k in the bank leave it there, it goes quickly. the pro's are not the ones that have the best handicapping systems or the most money, they have the Know, they know if a trainer is going to run his horse today, if he has extra medication or sponges up their nose or a jockey will ride the horse to win or just get in the money, or he's just building the odds up. How many horse's or trainers have you seen on the drf form that has only won 1 out of 30 races and it costs $20k a year to keep this horse racing, they have to make money and it's Betting, thats what your up against, if horses ran true to form every one would win

[ceejay]

w-man

I thought that I heard that Speck went to Louisiana????

[cato]

same thing as dying...

(Okay, I can't pass up a softball like that...)

Cato

:cool:

[superfecta]

No wonder you are suspicious of horseracing,those guys were bad news.Hope they are dead,or at least dead broke.....