California Chrome Answers The Question.

[PowerUpPaynter]

Good Day,

Is it fair to say we finally have a definitive answer on whether he is a great horse or not. Today was probably his finest moment. Excited to see the rest of his campaign.



Cheers

[letswastemoney]

I'd probably agree.

But, I'm fine if he loses some races later on too. I don't have such high expectations that he will finish this year with an undefeated 2016 record.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I've never been a Chromie, but I can give the horse his due. He's a high quality thoroughbred.

[Stillriledup]

Good Day,

Is it fair to say we finally have a definitive answer on whether he is a great horse or not. Today was probably his finest moment. Excited to see the rest of his campaign.



Cheers

Well Armed and Aaron Gryder approve this message!! :ThmbUp:

[NY BRED]

visually impressive win, equally impressed with Victor's cool
ride despite being placed in harms way with the saddle
incident.

While we are on this topic, anyone familiar on the buyout
of Steve Coburn?


:eek: :eek: :eek:

[burnsy]

I always thought he was really good. I'm not "Chromie" or any kind of bandwagon person either. I try to make objective "scouting" of all the big horses. I questioned the decision making of his people though. I felt he could of been a "Tour De Force" last year too. The "older division" is never really what it should be these days, so a horse like this can dominate. When a horse can run like this (on dirt) why try some cockamamie "grass tour"? It was pretty dumb. Its good that he "bounced back".

Credit trainer Art Sherman with a masterful job getting this horse back. He was not kidding that horse looks even better. He has that "last kick" back and those after burners make the difference in the last 1/16. He did not flatten out one bit. If healthy, he should have a great year. Hell, I thought he could of last year too. Depending on what the 3 yo's turn out to be, this horse will be a tough beat all the way through. In reality, I thought he was second best 4 yo last year and after what happened to Shared Belief the division was his for the taking.

[chadk66]

just think what they would have accomplished if they would have just left the trainer alone the past two years.

[burnsy]

just think what they would have accomplished if they would have just left the trainer alone the past two years.

Exactly Chad, seeing that this horse races instead of retiring. He's accomplished a lot but this horse could be the next Cigar and they wasted some of that. You keep this horse fit and put him on a track to track dirt tour, now you have something bigger than life. The game needs that more than anything. If fit, he's the kind that can win most of them too.

[RXB]

just think what they would have accomplished if they would have just left the trainer alone the past two years.

He wouldn't have made $8 million in Dubai, for starters. Did you forget that Art Sherman was against ever sending him there?

[classhandicapper]

I've never understood the controversy about this horse.

He won the SA Derby, KY Derby, and Preakness. That's already major.

He got cut up at the start of the Belmont and didn't run that poorly anyway.

He needed time to recover from the Belmont injury. Then he was clearly rushed (and short) into the Pennsylvania race because they wanted a prep going into the BC Classic.

He ran a respectable 3rd in the BC Classic in what amounted to a Merry Go Round race after the bumping at the start of only other speed which left Bayern alone on the lead on a generally speed favoring strip.

Since then he's won a few races and ran second to Shared Belief (who was legitimately on his way to greatness) and was 2nd in Dubai World Cup.

Now he's won a solid edition of the Dubai World Cup in extremely impressive fashion.

Everything about this horse screams that he's VERY VERY good when right, but IMO he's also not some kind of all time great. A great horse would have won in a couple of spots where he came up a little short. Still, we are lucky to be able to watch him at 5. He's damn good.

[Stillriledup]

just think what they would have accomplished if they would have just left the trainer alone the past two years.

100 % truth.


A lot of owners think they're automatically 'racing experts' if they earn enough money in another field and invest it into thoroughbred ownership. Same with bettors, any idiot can pick a winner on occasion, something about this game that fires up the ego in people who don't know which end of the horse eats.

[Donttellmeshowme]

100 % truth.


A lot of owners think they're automatically 'racing experts' if they earn enough money in another field and invest it into thoroughbred ownership. Same with bettors, any idiot can pick a winner on occasion, something about this game that fires up the ego in people who don't know which end of the horse eats.



Lots of owners in this game that dont have a clue where to spot a horse.

[Stillriledup]

Lots of owners in this game that dont have a clue where to spot a horse.

It's the Jerry Jones syndrome. Coburn thought he was the smartest guy in the room.

[RXB]

I'd sure like to know how he'd have won anything close to $8 million in the past 12 months by staying at home. It was his supposedly genius trainer that wanted to keep him in California; it was his supposedly stupid owner that sent him to Dubai.

[Donttellmeshowme]

I'd sure like to know how he'd have won anything close to $8 million in the past 12 months by staying at home. It was his supposedly genius trainer that wanted to keep him in California; it was his supposedly stupid owner that sent him to Dubai.




Every squirrel finds a nut it happens

[Kash$]

Can you think of a jockey who had a better past 12 months the Victor in then history of race riding?

[Stillriledup]

Can you think of a jockey who had a better past 12 months the Victor in then history of race riding?

24 if you count the CC triple crown 2 out of 3 run. It's hard to think of someone who had a 1/2 punch like this in a 2/3 year span.

[RXB]

Well that squirrel sure knew where to look, for a guy who's supposedly a clown. As opposed to the genius who wanted to keep him at home last year and run for a tenth of the purse against a better horse.

I don't think Perry Martin needs to apologize for much of anything. People laughed at him for breeding that mare. Apparently the Shermans laughed at him when he sent them his "Road to the Derby" plan for the horse. Then Art disagreed with Martin's decision to send CC to Dubai, but he's pocketed 10% of $8 million as a result. Seems to me like Martin has been right more often than he's been wrong with this horse. And people keep mocking him for whatever reason.

[ronsmac]

Well that squirrel sure knew where to look, for a guy who's supposedly a clown. As opposed to the genius who wanted to keep him at home last year and run for a tenth of the purse against a better horse.

I don't think Perry Martin needs to apologize for much of anything. People laughed at him for breeding that mare. Apparently the Shermans laughed at him when he sent them his "Road to the Derby" plan for the horse. Then Art disagreed with Martin's decision to send CC to Dubai, but he's pocketed 10% of $8 million as a result. Seems to me like Martin has been right more often than he's been wrong with this horse. And people keep mocking him for whatever reason.I don't think many people knocked the Dubai trips. It was the wacky European campaign.

[RXB]

I don't think many people knocked the Dubai trips. It was the wacky European campaign.

Art Sherman did not want to send the horse to Dubai and there were plenty of people who agreed with him.

[Donttellmeshowme]

I don't think many people knocked the Dubai trips. It was the wacky European campaign.




Or the sore losing after the Belmont.

[RXB]

Or the sore losing after the Belmont.

That was Coburn. Martin never said a word.

[Donttellmeshowme]

That was Coburn. Martin never said a word.



Didnt one buy out the other?

[RXB]

Actually, Taylor Made bought out Coburn. Doesn't really matter, the point is that it's laughable that people are mocking Perry Martin when he is the majority partner responsible for breeding the horse, for believing in his horse's ability from the start (in which he has been proven correct) and for setting a plan of action for the horse's racing career that has worked out very well on the whole.

[VeryOldMan]

I've never understood the controversy about this horse.

He won the SA Derby, KY Derby, and Preakness. That's already major.

He got cut up at the start of the Belmont and didn't run that poorly anyway.

He needed time to recover from the Belmont injury. Then he was clearly rushed (and short) into the Pennsylvania race because they wanted a prep going into the BC Classic.

He ran a respectable 3rd in the BC Classic in what amounted to a Merry Go Round race after the bumping at the start of only other speed which left Bayern alone on the lead on a generally speed favoring strip.

Since then he's won a few races and ran second to Shared Belief (who was legitimately on his way to greatness) and was 2nd in Dubai World Cup.

Now he's won a solid edition of the Dubai World Cup in extremely impressive fashion.

Everything about this horse screams that he's VERY VERY good when right, but IMO he's also not some kind of all time great. A great horse would have won in a couple of spots where he came up a little short. Still, we are lucky to be able to watch him at 5. He's damn good.
Very nice post. +1 here.

[chadk66]

He wouldn't have made $8 million in Dubai, for starters. Did you forget that Art Sherman was against ever sending him there?that was last year. And last year isn't this year. He knew the horse wasn't right last year. Turns out he was dead on.

[mostpost]

I'm sure that everyone has an opinion as to what the future plans for California Chrome should be. Here is mine; do with it what you will.

I read in the Blood Horse article on the Dubai World Cup that Chrome will be returning to the USA on March 31. He will fly to Chicago where he will have to clear quarantine. (I'm guessing this is at Arlington Park.) Then he will be sent to Taylor Made Farm for thirty days of R & R, before being returned to Art Sherman's barn. So he should be back with Sherman the first week in May.

With that in mind, here are the races I propose for California Chrome for the rest of the year.
June 18 Churchill Downs: $500,000 Stephen Foster 1 1/8 Miles on the dirt.

Four weeks later:
July 17 Del Mar: $400,000 Eddie Read 1 1/8 miles on the turf.

Five weeks after that:
August 21 Del Mar: $1,000,000 Pacific Classic 1/1/4 miles on the dirt.

Six weeks later:
October 1 Belmont Park: $1,000,000 Jockey Club GC 1 1/4 miles on the dirt.

Five weeks after:
November 5 Santa Anita: $5,000,000 BC Classic 1 1/4 miles on the dirt.

Three weeks later
November 27, Japan: $5,400.000 Japan Cup. 1 1/2 miles on the turf.

I don't think this is an unreasonable schedule. The horse gets a freshening now. There are are four or five or six weeks between each race except for the Japan Cup. There is quite a bit of travel but CC travels well.

As with any schedule this is not set in stone. The horse will tell you when and if the schedule has to be adjusted. The connections may not want to come east for the Jockey Club Gold Cup and prefer a California race at that time. Participation in the Japan Cup should depend on how California Chrome does in the Eddie Read and how he is doing after the Breeders Cup Classic.

[ronsmac]

I'm sure that everyone has an opinion as to what the future plans for California Chrome should be. Here is mine; do with it what you will.

I read in the Blood Horse article on the Dubai World Cup that Chrome will be returning to the USA on March 31. He will fly to Chicago where he will have to clear quarantine. (I'm guessing this is at Arlington Park.) Then he will be sent to Taylor Made Farm for thirty days of R & R, before being returned to Art Sherman's barn. So he should be back with Sherman the first week in May.

With that in mind, here are the races I propose for California Chrome for the rest of the year.
June 18 Churchill Downs: $500,000 Stephen Foster 1 1/8 Miles on the dirt.

Four weeks later:
July 17 Del Mar: $400,000 Eddie Read 1 1/8 miles on the turf.

Five weeks after that:
August 21 Del Mar: $1,000,000 Pacific Classic 1/1/4 miles on the dirt.

Six weeks later:
October 1 Belmont Park: $1,000,000 Jockey Club GC 1 1/4 miles on the dirt.

Five weeks after:
November 5 Santa Anita: $5,000,000 BC Classic 1 1/4 miles on the dirt.

Three weeks later
November 27, Japan: $5,400.000 Japan Cup. 1 1/2 miles on the turf.

I don't think this is an unreasonable schedule. The horse gets a freshening now. There are are four or five or six weeks between each race except for the Japan Cup. There is quite a bit of travel but CC travels well.

As with any schedule this is not set in stone. The horse will tell you when and if the schedule has to be adjusted. The connections may not want to come east for the Jockey Club Gold Cup and prefer a California race at that time. Participation in the Japan Cup should depend on how California Chrome does in the Eddie Read and how he is doing after the Breeders Cup Classic.There's absolutely no way he runs 6 more times this year. 4 max and probably 3.

[SG4]

There's absolutely no way he runs 6 more times this year. 4 max and probably 3.

I read that they might only run him twice more, Pacific Classic & then BC Classic. That'd make 2 years worth of campaigns with 3 races in Dubai & 3 races in the States. Not exactly "America's horse" a la Alysheba or Cigar.

[mostpost]

I read that they might only run him twice more, Pacific Classic & then BC Classic. That'd make 2 years worth of campaigns with 3 races in Dubai & 3 races in the States. Not exactly "America's horse" a la Alysheba or Cigar.
I read that also. I took it to mean that those are his main goals, not that those were the only races he might compete in. Look, the DWC was March 26. The Pacific Classic will be on August 21. That is an interval of 21 weeks. The plan-according to The Blood Horse is to have California Chrome back in training the first week of May. Are they just going to train him for fifteen or sixteen weeks without racing him? Does not make a lot of sense to me.

I know that horses don't race as much as they used to, but nine races in eleven months his not that taxing.

[SG4]

I read that also. I took it to mean that those are his main goals, not that those were the only races he might compete in. Look, the DWC was March 26. The Pacific Classic will be on August 21. That is an interval of 21 weeks. The plan-according to The Blood Horse is to have California Chrome back in training the first week of May. Are they just going to train him for fifteen or sixteen weeks without racing him? Does not make a lot of sense to me.

I know that horses don't race as much as they used to, but nine races in eleven months his not that taxing.

Here was the quote from the article I was referencing in DRF:

California Chrome leaves Dubai on Thursday, flies to Chicago for a brief quarantine, and then will be sent by van to Taylor Made outside Lexington, Ky., for a 30-day rest. Plans aren’t set, but Sherman suggested it was likely California Chrome would race just twice before going to stud, in the Pacific Classic at Del Mar and in the Breeders’ Cup Classic at Santa Anita.

“He runs really well fresh,” Sherman said.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Here was the quote from the article I was referencing in DRF:

California Chrome leaves Dubai on Thursday, flies to Chicago for a brief quarantine, and then will be sent by van to Taylor Made outside Lexington, Ky., for a 30-day rest. Plans aren’t set, but Sherman suggested it was likely California Chrome would race just twice before going to stud, in the Pacific Classic at Del Mar and in the Breeders’ Cup Classic at Santa Anita.

“He runs really well fresh,” Sherman said.

I figured they might do 2 preps before the BC, but as Art stated, this horse has proven he can fire off the bench and when fresh.

The Classic would be huge for Chrome. He would become the ONLY horse who has ever won the Kentucky Derby, Dubai World Cup, and the Breeder's Cup Classic. That is quite the threesome of crowns for any horse to wear.

[ronsmac]

I figured they might do 2 preps before the BC, but as Art stated, this horse has proven he can fire off the bench and when fresh.

The Classic would be huge for Chrome. He would become the ONLY horse who has ever won the Kentucky Derby, Dubai World Cup, and the Breeder's Cup Classic. That is quite the threesome of crowns for any horse to wear.It's a long way off but if they can somehow keep him healthy, it's hard to imagine him losing. I've said before the current group of opponents lacks true grade 1 quality. Beholder is 6 now and who knows what's up with Dortmund, so those are huge question marks. Chromes performance Saturday is the best dirt performance I've seen this decade when factoring the ground loss and the way he put the rest of the field to sleep with a 1/16th of a mile burst. God forbid he ever gets a chilly stalking trip in 2nd.

[PowerUpPaynter]

I read that also. I took it to mean that those are his main goals, not that those were the only races he might compete in. Look, the DWC was March 26. The Pacific Classic will be on August 21. That is an interval of 21 weeks. The plan-according to The Blood Horse is to have California Chrome back in training the first week of May. Are they just going to train him for fifteen or sixteen weeks without racing him? Does not make a lot of sense to me.

I know that horses don't race as much as they used to, but nine races in eleven months his not that taxing.


in a perfect world he would race on one of the Triple Crown underrcards

[PowerUpPaynter]

here is a great article by Steve Haskin if you missed it:

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2016/03/29/hall-of-chrome.aspx


It really is amazing it took this long for all of us to come together to celebrate this great horse. With the rags to riches story it is amazing that there was a point where people wanted to put down this horse and try to knock his accomplishments. He is a great horse and the fact that he is still racing at 5 is fantastic for the sport.

Broke track record at Mayden
Fastest Santa Anita Derby in past 17 years
Fastest Preakness in past 8 years

He lost a chunk of his foot out of the gate at Belmont and who knows what would of been.

His Dubai World Cup victory easily defeated the second, third, and fourth-place finishers of the previous year’s Belmont Stakes, the winner of the Travers Stakes, a U.S. multiple grade I winner, and an international field of horses who had won races in Dubai, Hong Kong, Japan, Germany, France, England, and Saudi Arabia.

He won 10 stakes, five of them grade I’s, at six different racetracks on two continents, at seven different distances, and won grade I stakes on dirt and grass.




This is a great horse. And that is a masterpiece by the great Steve Haskin

Cheers

[VeryOldMan]

here is a great article by Steve Haskin if you missed it:

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2016/03/29/hall-of-chrome.aspx



Thanks for the link - wonderfully-written piece. Highly recommend others check it out.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Fantastic article and one that needed to be written to put it all into perspective. Going back to 2014 to me his up close finish in the BC Classic was excellent and competing in all 3 legs of the TC winning 2 and a close 4th while injured at 12f in the Belmont was enough to be horse of the year. You switch around the list of accomplishments to the other horses competing for that title that year and their only accomplishment was beating this horse in 1 big race. The body of work as a whole won it in my eyes. But there was definitely a sense of doubt as to whether the horses was a partial illusion and peaked too soon while others caught up physically especially losing to other solid members of his own crop. All that followed afterward never allowed that seed of doubt to be erased. As a fan it seemed an almost agonizing perpetuation of a once great athlete. To see a dominating victory (and hey I'm throwing in a HOF call to boot!) like that was satisfying in more ways than one. It satisfied the high standards a player demands and it satisfied the eternal racing fan in me. Best of both worlds! And while I have read the Bloodhorse here and there for years, since I subscribed a few years ago I really dig and respect Haskin. Great piece and a good start to the year for the older male handicap division. The air is still in the 50's here in Cincinnati but with all going on in our horseracing world I'm already in a summer state of mind. Woooo! :cool:

[ultracapper]

He hasn't been out of the money in his past 7 races, in the exacta his past 6. He's really only had 2 hiccups his entire career. One as a developing 2 yo when the connections were kind of feeling it out to see what kind of a horse they really had, and then the debacle ending his 3yo season, which turns out to be very understandable. Everything seems to be stabalized now and they really have no reason to do anything but do right by the horse the remainder of 2016 in an effort to pull down the BCC and maybe, just maybe, take another shot in Dubai next year and see if they can get him to $20M. He could find himself back in the mainstream national spotlight which would be great because he does have name recognition to some degree. There would be many casual horse racing fans, next spring, saying, "hey, I remember him". It would be good for the game, as everybody in America understands $20,000,000.

[ultracapper]

Well, I didn't read the "off to stud" post before I posted above.

Race him through next spring. It will take him a long time to pull down the $6M he could win in Dubai next spring in the breeding shed. What's his fee going to be? $50K maybe? I'm sure his accomplishments will inflate initially his stud fee, but wouldn't it be reasonable to expect it to fade after awhile?

Lucky Pulpit is doing pretty well right now, on the other hand. Isn't he?

Who knows. I'm still quite the novice on the breeding side of the game. Even more a novice than on the gambling side (a little self-deprecation is required on my part now and then.)

[outofthebox]

Definitely one of my favorite horses to watch. Other than the owners, there is just no way to not root for this horse. I can only look back at the throw down at Santa Anita last year with Shared Belief, and wonder what kind of rivalry could have been born. I was upset that they both chose different paths, more so that Shared Belief did not go to Dubai for the 10 mil, and hook up with Chrome again.Kind of sad we will only see him run two more times if everything goes according to plan.

[PowerUpPaynter]

Definitely one of my favorite horses to watch. Other than the owners, there is just no way to not root for this horse. I can only look back at the throw down at Santa Anita last year with Shared Belief, and wonder what kind of rivalry could have been born. I was upset that they both chose different paths, more so that Shared Belief did not go to Dubai for the 10 mil, and hook up with Chrome again.Kind of sad we will only see him run two more times if everything goes according to plan.


only 2 more races? where did you read that? not that im questioning that but i just want to read the article.

[castaway01]

only 2 more races? where did you read that? not that im questioning that but i just want to read the article.

You already commented on a post about it earlier in this thread---the DRF said Pacific Classic and BC Classic is the plan.

[Frost king]

Not to rain on anybody's parade, but California Chrome has become the 11th North American based horse to win this race. The first 10, on their return to North America, either never made it to the Breeder's Cup because of injury, or lost that race. The 10 Euro based winners, suffered the same fate, either they never won another race, or their careers were severely affected. Chrome last year tried this same campaign last year, and it knocked him on his ass for 10 months. What would make you think, that he is going to be different than the other 20 horses before him?

[ribjig]

> Not to rain on anybody's parade

:cool: 'ere's how to rank greatest race horses:
by total $$ earned converted to 2016 dollars;
anyone done the busywork???

Or rank by "grades" of races & give points,
that way a 2015 BC G1 = 1919 G1...

:1: = :1:
:2: = :2:
:3: = :3:

[Zaf]

Great Race Horse, In the KD thread ranking the best horses over the last 20 years I ranked him 2nd before the Dubai victory. He has done little wrong, Happy for his trainer class act, Art Sherman :ThmbUp: :)

Z

[elhelmete]

> Not to rain on anybody's parade

:cool: 'ere's how to rank greatest race horses:
by total $$ earned converted to 2016 dollars;
anyone done the busywork???

Or rank by "grades" of races & give points,
that way a 2015 BC G1 = 1919 G1...

:1: = :1:
:2: = :2:
:3: = :3:
Have you used Chrome's races in any of your show pool manipulation projects?

[SharpCat]

I can only look back at the throw down at Santa Anita last year with Shared Belief, and wonder what kind of rivalry could have been born.

Would have been nice to see them face each other a few times. But I believe Shared Belief was in a different league.

[ronsmac]

Would have been nice to see them face each other a few times. But I believe Shared Belief was in a different league.
I thought that too until this years world cup. Chrome was obviously much better than last yr which suggests Shared Belief beat a Chrome at 90%. I never got the feeling he was the same horse after the Belmont debacle until Saturday. I would've loved to have seen an American Pharoah, Chrome rivalry this year .

[VeryOldMan]

I would've loved to have seen an American Pharoah, Chrome rivalry this year .
Testify. A shame CC wasn't healthy or geared up for last year's BC Classic. Not knocking AP - just remembering the "old days" where we got to see the upstart against the incumbent older horses. Seattle Slew/Affirmed, Affirmed/Spectacular Bid, etc., etc. We still argue on the board to this day about those races and those horses. Wish we could see something like that now, but the $$ re breeding and the overall direction of the sport have probably killed that forever.

[SG4]

I've seen chatter in a few areas about what a dope Perry Martin is for comments he made after the world cup, does anyone have any video link to these? Or an article with all the text, or if you saw it live could you summarize? Read a few snippets & he sounded too dumb to be believed, was he being tongue in cheek at all?

[cj]

Testify. A shame CC wasn't healthy or geared up for last year's BC Classic. Not knocking AP - just remembering the "old days" where we got to see the upstart against the incumbent older horses. Seattle Slew/Affirmed, Affirmed/Spectacular Bid, etc., etc. We still argue on the board to this day about those races and those horses. Wish we could see something like that now, but the $$ re breeding and the overall direction of the sport have probably killed that forever.

Ferdinand / Alysheba was really good also.

[VeryOldMan]

Ferdinand / Alysheba was really good also.

+1

I miss those days. Maybe CC will stay healthy, a great 3 year old will emerge and we'll see something like that in the fall. I'm not holding my breath for that outcome nor are you and many others, I suspect.

[chadk66]

Ferdinand / Alysheba was really good also.:ThmbUp: