Constellation 1/9 off the board 4 horse field!!

[Kash$]

Horse was drifting the entire stretch...

[Stoleitbreezing]

Looked to me the :3: had her measure in the lane, but because of the drift it cost her the place.

[Stoleitbreezing]

:3: 21.80 to win and 50.50 to place :lol:

[no breathalyzer]

i still can't believe that .... them sick jumpers gonna have to hit 50 in a row to see that $$ back

[Kash$]

Ex $79.. :lol:

[senortout]

Takress #1 36.00 place, also a steal tyvmuch!

[RunForTheRoses]

When I looked at the pps I thought why would Asmussen, who has stables in warmer more lucrative locales, keep this $800K purchase in NY for the winter. I did play a back up P5 but used the 1 not the 3.

[Capper Al]

It's races like this when a horse has all the numbers, so to speak, that makes me wonder if these numbers add up at all.

[Shemp Howard]

Same butcher in the saddle when Berhnik's Bank got beat.

He can't hold a horse together in the stretch.

[castaway01]

It's races like this when a horse has all the numbers, so to speak, that makes me wonder if these numbers add up at all.

What it really makes you wonder is who would ever take 1-9 on anything, yet obviously they're out there.

[Tom]

Yeah, no one bets 1-9 shots.

[PaceAdvantage]

Is that like the ol' Yogi saying? Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded.

[Stillriledup]

If nyra allowed show betting they would have made a years salary.

It's amazing that the 2 beat the fave to the wire, Beyer figs didnt mean much there.

[davew]

$20 to place on 1 and 3 is one of my best hits this year so far :eek:

[AlBundy33]

Same butcher in the saddle when Berhnik's Bank got beat.

He can't hold a horse together in the stretch.

That's Jose "The Human Anchor" Ortiz for you.

[Tom]

Is that like the ol' Yogi saying? Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded.

PA=mind reader! :lol:
Hey, with AGE comes wisdom!

[the little guy]

That's Jose "The Human Anchor" Ortiz for you.

The horse bore out significantly at the break and was bearing out in the lane. How is that Jose Ortiz's fault?

Obviously something was bothering her. Her good race buries these.

[Donttellmeshowme]

The horse bore out significantly at the break and was bearing out in the lane. How is that Jose Ortiz's fault?

Obviously something was bothering her. Her good race buries these.



Maybe the trainer should of done some vet work..

[AlBundy33]

The horse bore out significantly at the break and was bearing out in the lane. How is that Jose Ortiz's fault?

Obviously something was bothering her. Her good race buries these.

While that race wasn't the best example, there have been many times he has been on the best horse that should have buried the field and the last eighth of the race, the particular horse in question seems to hit a brick wall.

You would think with a 25% rider on a contender, you would think that he or she wouldn't be a concern. But when I see him listed, I have to think long and hard before I use him.

When he shows up for big races, I just autotoss whatever horse he's on. Then again, it's just my opinion.

His brother, on the other hand, I can bet on with confidence.

[the little guy]

While that race wasn't the best example, there have been many times he has been on the best horse that should have buried the field and the last eighth of the race, the particular horse in question seems to hit a brick wall.

You would think with a 25% rider on a contender, you would think that he or she wouldn't be a concern. But when I see him listed, I have to think long and hard before I use him.

When he shows up for big races, I just autotoss whatever horse he's on. Then again, it's just my opinion.

His brother, on the other hand, I can bet on with confidence.

He must have some agent then given he won the Inner Track meet with 80 wins.

[pandy]

Jose Ortiz is 3rd in the country in wins and has an 18% win percentage with 50% in the money. He's been very good to me this winter.

[AlBundy33]

Trust me Andy and Bob, I'm not trying to argue with you. I'd be a damn fool if I did, lol. I know what the numbers are considering I did mention that he won at a 25% clip during the inner meet in the earlier post.

For whatever reason, he turns into a 2% rider when I put money on the guy. And I generally don't like getting on jockeys because of their profession, but for whatever reason, he just grinds my gears. Kind of like Daniel Dube on the harness side.

[EMD4ME]

I have a question:

Jose is such a leading jockey. One would venture that he would get a lot of mounts from the leading inner track trainer, Rudy Rodriguez.

His brother IRAD, was 36/91 with RR. I get the fact that his bro is RR's main man. However, at NYRA, trainers and jocks are musical chairs. How can Jose only be 4/17 with RR in the last 5 months and 1 for his last 10 in the past 90 days with RR???

It's not like RR doesn't normally use Jose.....

Jose and RR are 53/226 together over 5 years and 30/104 at AQU in the last 5 years.

How can Jose only have 10 mounts with RR in the last 90 days?

Zero mounts for Jose in all of Feb. RR rode him on March 12 (as Irad was out of town), Jose lost with all 4 mounts on horses that were 4/1, 2/1, 9/5 and 1/1.....

[lamboguy]

my up and coming rider is Nik Juarez. he's not making that many mistakes now riding in the championship meet at Gulfstream. kid has a great attitude, no idea how he could possibly miss being a big go to rider.

[AlBundy33]

my up and coming rider is Nik Juarez. he's not making that many mistakes now riding in the championship meet at Gulfstream. kid has a great attitude, no idea how he could possibly miss being a big go to rider.

No doubt. He certainly has been impressive up to this point. I'm curious to see where he ends up when the major meet is done at Gulfstream.

[gheuks]

going to Monmouth for the summer

[lamboguy]

Marcus Vitali's not going to New Jersey this year, he is staying in Miami. i don't know what the rider and his agent Jay Rushing have planned yet.

[bello]

I thought Jose's ride race on Constellation was weird from the start. Looked like an Ussery's alley move which will never work on the inner track, especially yesterday. Was it the horse, I have no idea, but it didn't look like it to my eye. At least not on the backstretch.

Oddly enough, on another Asmussen runner in Race 7 #1 Gold Hawk, he starts from the rail, and instead of sitting the perfect rail trip behind a rare speed dual he amazingly steers the horse three wide as soon as he could on the backstretch, giving the horse no shot at that point. I am not a Jose fan or basher. I do think those two rides were odd, both for Asmussen, both races with Pletcher horses in the race in which Manny rode perfectly which he has been doing for some time now. Unless Asmussen instructed Jose to stay outside lanes one and two, he cannot be happy with those two rides.

[EMD4ME]

I thought Jose's ride race on Constellation was weird from the start. Looked like an Ussery's alley move which will never work on the inner track, especially yesterday. Was it the horse, I have no idea, but it didn't look like it to my eye. At least not on the backstretch.

Oddly enough, on another Asmussen runner in Race 7 #1 Gold Hawk, he starts from the rail, and instead of sitting the perfect rail trip behind a rare speed dual he amazingly steers the horse three wide as soon as he could on the backstretch, giving the horse no shot at that point. I am not a Jose fan or basher. I do think those two rides were odd, both for Asmussen, both races with Pletcher horses in the race in which Manny rode perfectly which he has been doing for some time now. Unless Asmussen instructed Jose to stay outside lanes one and two, he cannot be happy with those two rides.

I too, saw a horse who DID NOT DRIFT OUT.

I saw Jose's body weight steered outward from the first stride. I saw no attempt to move the horse inward until 7 seconds into the race. Which of course left the leader, ridden by his close buddy, Manuel Franco, totally stress free on the lead. (at that point, the ending was being sealed already, as Constellation was not on the lead and the only other speed in a 4 horse field was loose and comfortable).

I saw a jock with zero intention of using his speed on a horse WHO SO FAR, looks like a NEED THE LEADER (for best performance).

I saw a horse who didn't drift out. I saw a horse who was not steered to move in on the backstretch. I saw a horse who once was asked to move in, did so with aplomb.

I saw a horse corner perfectly, as the horse was asked to go on her other lead into the far turn. I didn't see any drifting on the far turn or Getting Out.

I saw a horse turn into the lane fine, then when Franco came out 2X, Constellation went wider along with the the leader. I saw Jose whipping right handed after the damage was done and the horse kept a straight path.

Just like Behrnik's Bank (sorry if it's mispelled), I see a jock finding a way to not give an optimum ride to an extremely short priced horse.

If Jose asked her from the start and she didn't have the speed, I get it.

But this loss is just too suspicious. There was about $400,000 in that place pool....

But it's a repeat pattern with this rider. No surprise.

And I got my answer to what's up with RR and his thoughts on Jose..... ;)

Too repulsive to post on PA. We'll just say that.

[andtheyreoff]

Marcus Vitali's not going to New Jersey this year, he is staying in Miami. i don't know what the rider and his agent Jay Rushing have planned yet.

Nik said on twitter that he will be back at Monmouth this summer. It makes sense; he did a very good job there last year.

[the little guy]

These endless, and baseless, claims about jockey cheating do nobody any good, and frankly, they have no basis in fact.

On Constellation, forget what I think....but I watched the race with Travis Stone and Maggie Wolfendale. Now, being that people on this board seem to universally agree that Maggie knows what she is talking about when looking at horses, I am guessing that her opinion here also probably carries some weight. Well, Travis saw from the reins that Constellation was getting out pretty much immediately, and Maggie said the same. Watching the head-on later confirmed this.

Obviously something was bothering Constellation. Hopefully it's not serious. Do yourselves a favor, and get off the grassy knoll. It doesn't do you or anyone any good.

[sammy the sage]

All of you are WRONG... :lol: ....it was STRICTLY a work-out....trying to teach her to rate....the jockey made NO effort to win the last 8th...pretty sure had instructions FOR that NOT...to abuse her...

Willing to bet that her next race is for MORE money....not less....if something is wrong w/her...it'll be for less....or not at all....BBBuuuuttttt....if I'm correct here,,,it will be for MORE money...and maybe longer as well...

then a decision to be made...is she good enough......

[EMD4ME]

We agree to disagree. Or at least I agree to disagree.

Let's discuss something other than what we are disagreeing about. In your opinion, did Jose ask his horse for speed early? If you agree he didn't, what do you think the HKJC would say about a ride like that on a 1/9 shot who's best shot is to lead in a paceless race? Do you think that was the "best" thing to do for this horse to win (rate and stay 10 wide early for 7 seconds)?

Here were the early race sprints from Sat:

Race 1: 4UP F S ALW N1X 23.03 46.63 111.86
Race 3: Race in question 23.43 [B]46.39 112.08
Race 5: 4UP CL 25 N2L 22.72 46.48 113.26
Race 6: 3YO MDSPWT 22.93 46.72 111.98

Jose was doing the right thing in that opening furlong and opening 2 furlongs????

Overall, the results are the results. At this point many of the results are comical, sort of WWE like. Today, I was told, from a rock hard source, with no ambuigity, what I already know about Jose.....Please fill in what that is, if you'd like.

Other noteable resume builders for Jose.

Berhnik's Bank: Last I checked, it sure seemed the horse's owner BLASTED Jose Ortiz's character, not just his riding skills on Twitter after that race here on the inner earlier in the meet.

Ray'swarrior (jan 3rd 4th race, the 5) shipped to OP and ran 2 excelllent races after Jose's curious ride on Jan 3rd. I don't blame them for getting out of town. (HUGE, MASSIVE, INTENSE, SURREAL inside/speed bias in races 1,2&3. Jose breaks with the lead, has 3 lengths on the rail horse, keeps looking back but was passive in getting over to the gold rail). What a coinicidence, the guy he keeps looking over for, catches up and wires the field. Jose should be a cop when he's retired from racing, he's an excellent policeman.

Katniss The Victor was 1 back of her uncoupled emate when Jose dragged her 7 lengths back from that spot during a 25.54 opening quarter in Jan 31st's 6th race. The emates had different owners, I wonder how happy Mr. Dubb was with that ride....

Don't blame guys like me who are screaming for integrity. Integrity is the #1 issue with our sport.

Please continue to be the ONLY voice that points out unique, curious, suspicious incidents when you see them. I grew to admire you because of that.

It would be "Amoral" if you didn't. ;)

[EMD4ME]

One last thought before bed.....

If Jose felt there was something off, then he should be punished for making an "off" horse run for 113 seconds.

I'm not buying it, not even with SRU's money. (No offense SRU :D )

To me the intention to not give the best of rides, was evident in 2 strides. When I saw his hands not pumping and cramped up in that cameraless area (you know, the spot where you can't see what his hands are doing) I knew something was up.

On a horse like that, when a jock is on their A game, they are using the horse's best asset, SPEED and keeping the lead/clearing to the rail.

If he thought the horse was "off" and that's why he was rating, then why would he rattle off a sub 23 2nd quarter while 2 wide? Why drive the horse down the lane, if the horse is "off"?

Doesn't pass any one of my smell tests.

[bello]

Actually I commented on two races and in reality I actually did only play one, and it was Gold Hawk in race 7. So that effort actually irritated me

No doubt, Gold Hawk likely has a hole in him, but my old harness racing perfect trip handicapping was staring me in the face so I made a rare NYRA bet.
And the race developed beautifully for me. Looked to sit pocketed behind to front-runners. If you watch any angle, Jose elects to bull his way to the 3 path. BTW in his previous race, Gold Hawk did just fine cutting the corner, so that was the trip to have and he vacated it for no reason.

I too hope Constellation is fine. I also hope Jose is fine. Maybe it was only one odd ride and that was in race 7. BTW did not say a crooked ride.

As far as grassy knoll, and I know you are also perplexed at times by the lack of early challenges. Suspicion is part of racing. Bad races are part of racing.

Like I mentioned on other threads I grew up at harness tracks where losing about every 5 weeks for any given horse in the condition ranks is commonplace. Does that mean those races are fixed or part of the game. I'll let others be the judge.

But, in particular at NYRA, between the lack of speed duels and the lack of transiency in the winter does leave people scratching their heads often.

Betters are always better off with new blood coming and going IMO. You just don't have that in the winter in NY. You actually have quite the opposite. Lots of relatives and close friends in the jocks room,

THIS IS NOT AN INDICTMENT OF ANYONE. But a perception that is out there. I will leave these opinions to others.

You know many years ago at an itty bitty harness track called Scarboro Downs, either the track or the Maine racing commission made ( i dont recall) ruled that husbands and wives could noy race in the same race. This ruling was directed at David Ingraham and his wife Kelly Case. They actually got divorced because of it. And are together to this day, decades later.

But the ruling was all about perception. These guys can't help they are brothers and relatives etc. But I wonder if they may be better off on different "A" tracks during the year and coming together at the Spa to race against each other. That would make for some excitement.

Now I am getting back to this great NCAA tourney where I do not bet a dime. Just enjoy it for the competition. Not dissimilar to my enjoyment of racing and handicapping. Most days if not weeks I do not bet a dime, but I handicap every single day. Mention it because when I make my comments I do so without having skin in the game. My Gold Hawk comments were based on a light bet where he was my single in the last leg of my P3.

Because I bet so rarely my comments really are impartial. I would have felt the same way about these races had I bet nothing,

[Stillriledup]

One last thought before bed.....

If Jose felt there was something off, then he should be punished for making an "off" horse run for 113 seconds.

I'm not buying it, not even with SRU's money. (No offense SRU :D )

To me the intention to not give the best of rides, was evident in 2 strides. When I saw his hands not pumping and cramped up in that cameraless area (you know, the spot where you can't see what his hands are doing) I knew something was up.

On a horse like that, when a jock is on their A game, they are using the horse's best asset, SPEED and keeping the lead/clearing to the rail.

If he thought the horse was "off" and that's why he was rating, then why would he rattle off a sub 23 2nd quarter while 2 wide? Why drive the horse down the lane, if the horse is "off"?

Doesn't pass any one of my smell tests.

Harness driver gets lack of effort suspension there if he places a 1-9 horse who can't lose on paper behind another runner and doesn't make an attempt around him and then the horse goes on to lose.

Thoroughbred stewards just buy whatever excuse a jock might use

[EMD4ME]

Harness driver gets lack of effort suspension there if he places a 1-9 horse who can't lose on paper behind another runner and doesn't make an attempt around him and then the horse goes on to lose.

Thoroughbred stewards just buy whatever excuse a jock might use

1) assuming and it's A HUUUUUGE assumption that the stewards actually cashed ooops, I mean asked Jose what he was doing/thinking

2) I could see Jose's answer: I was so much the best so I let her run on her own. I asked her a bit into the far turn then ran out of horse in the lane. She felt a bit off but I wasn't sure. Didn't want to pull up a 1/9 shot

Any real sharpie can see that a confirmed speed horse would have a hard time running a SUPER SNAPPY 2nd quarter off the rail (stressed chasing a lone speed) and then sustaining it to pass the lone speed. A closer/stalker/presser can do that but not a horse who looks to be an on the leader.

There was zero excuse for Jose NOT to keep his lead. (HE HAD THE LEAD IN THE ALLEGED problem stages early). That 1st quarter was a total JOKE. AND IF, AND I MEAN IF VERY LOOSELY/SARCASTICALLY, Constellation was OFF AND that is the reason she lost her speed............then answer this folks:

How was she able to ratte off a 22.79 2nd quarter while 2 wide???

I'm no CJ but that was a pretty wicked 2nd quarter (for this day) folks.

[no breathalyzer]

One last thought before bed.....

If Jose felt there was something off, then he should be punished for making an "off" horse run for 113 seconds.

I'm not buying it, not even with SRU's money. (No offense SRU :D )

To me the intention to not give the best of rides, was evident in 2 strides. When I saw his hands not pumping and cramped up in that cameraless area (you know, the spot where you can't see what his hands are doing) I knew something was up.

On a horse like that, when a jock is on their A game, they are using the horse's best asset, SPEED and keeping the lead/clearing to the rail.

If he thought the horse was "off" and that's why he was rating, then why would he rattle off a sub 23 2nd quarter while 2 wide? Why drive the horse down the lane, if the horse is "off"?

Doesn't pass any one of my smell tests.

sure didn't in my mind.. it looked bogus .. Don't f*** with the houses $$$ :D

[PaceAdvantage]

Some of you are whacked.

I'm starting not to believe you bet the kind of money you claim (EMD). And if you do, then you're losing your shirt and must have some very deep pockets.

[NorCalGreg]

sure didn't in my mind.. it looked bogus .. Don't f*** with the houses $$$ :D

You guys up on the grassy knoll crack me up with your jockey/steward conspiracies. A horse can't just run a bad race--had to be something more sinister going on...since horses ALWAYS run as expected.

I'm not complaining, though...this would be a far less interesting board without you. :)

[bello]

You guys up on the grassy knoll crack me up with your jockey/steward conspiracies. A horse can't just run a bad race--had to be something more sinister going on...since horses ALWAYS run as expected.

I'm not complaining, though...this would be a far less interesting board without you. :)

Do you really believe Oswald acted alone? Give me a break !!!!!!!!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

How is it even possible that all these races EMD and SRU and others (although not as regularly) post about can be tampered with? And nobody of importance seems to notice except these two guys?

Rival trainers and jockeys just let these guys have free fun of the joint? Messing with races left and right? And they still get mounts? Or are they riding for only one trainer who is "in on it all?"

Think of how insane you guys sound to normal people who have been around the game for a while.

[Stillriledup]

You guys up on the grassy knoll crack me up with your jockey/steward conspiracies. A horse can't just run a bad race--had to be something more sinister going on...since horses ALWAYS run as expected.

I'm not complaining, though...this would be a far less interesting board without you. :)

Horses run bad races all the time, I think the 64 dollar question is this. Since this is about a NYRA race I'll ask it this way.

Do you believe 100 pct of the races at Aqu are honest with all jocks straining to achieve the best placing possible and there are 0 shenanigans, 0 collusion, etc?

Is it 100 pct?

[no breathalyzer]

why is it automatic that a person must be a losing horse player for thinking a certain way that is different then yours.. i agree 90% of some of these grassy knoll theory's are way out there.. there are some that you think are that hold weight in my mind

[PaceAdvantage]

why is it automatic that a person must be a losing horse player for thinking a certain way that is different then yours.. i agree 90% of some of these grassy knoll theory's are way out there.. there are some that you think are that hold weight in my mindBecause winning players don't have the time to obsess over fairy tales (for the most part).

Winning players aren't stubborn oxen.

Winning players aren't people who rarely admit to being wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Maybe all the exceptions to the above rules are posting here on this board.

[bello]

Have No Cal Greg do a search for Bad races on the No Cal circuit.

Vegas used to stay away from there. Did they ever find Ron Hanson.

What happened to Michael Hole and Jose Amy?

I admit I may be jaded coming from harness racing but some of you really have no clue that crap happens the is not kosher.

BTW in this case I never claimed Ortiz held the horses back. I did say I didn't understand either ride. Even wondered if Asmussen instructed him to ride outside and he was following orders.

[PaceAdvantage]

Horses run bad races all the time, I think the 64 dollar question is this. Since this is about a NYRA race I'll ask it this way.

Do you believe 100 pct of the races at Aqu are honest with all jocks straining to achieve the best placing possible and there are 0 shenanigans, 0 collusion, etc?

Is it 100 pct?How about addressing some of the better points I raised instead of deflecting with a rhetorical question?

[PaceAdvantage]

Have No Cal Greg do a search for Bad races on the No Cal circuit.

Vegas used to stay away from there. Did they ever find Ron Hanson.

What happened to Michael Hole and Jose Amy?

I admit I may be jaded coming from harness racing but some of you really have no clue that crap happens the is not kosher.

BTW in this case I never claimed Ortiz held the horses back. I did say I didn't understand either ride. Even wondered if Asmussen instructed him to ride outside and he was following orders.I'm not talking about this specific race, or any specific race.

I'm talking about people like EMD that have vilified a number of jockeys, accusing them of CONSISTENTLY and almost CONSTANTLY messing with the outcome of races...ON PURPOSE.

Now that you know where I'm coming from, maybe we can get back on track and not start this whole "Well, you're a naive fool who doesn't know what they hell you're talking about" nonsense.

[no breathalyzer]

I have a question.... I don't know the answer obviously ... that was a pretty large bridge jump. how much was the track going to lose on that race had the horse ran second? And no i'm not applying anything by asking this question.

[bello]

I'm not talking about this specific race, or any specific race.

I'm talking about people like EMD that have vilified a number of jockeys, accusing them of CONSISTENTLY and almost CONSTANTLY messing with the outcome of races...ON PURPOSE.

Now that you know where I'm coming from, maybe we can get back on track and not start this whole "Well, you're a naive fool who doesn't know what they hell you're talking about" nonsense.

Not sure what you mean in your last quote. I don't recall saying that to anyone or anyone saying it to me, which would be more likely.

OK lets get back on track

[PaceAdvantage]

Not sure what you mean in your last quote. I don't recall saying that to anyone or anyone saying it to me, which would be more likely.I was paraphrasing...but maybe I should have quoted you directly:

"I admit I may be jaded coming from harness racing but some of you really have no clue that crap happens the is not kosher."

[duncan04]

How about addressing some of the better points I raised instead of deflecting with a rhetorical question?

He needs to build his post counts somehow :rolleyes:

[bello]

I was paraphrasing...but maybe I should have quoted you directly:

"I admit I may be jaded coming from harness racing but some of you really have no clue that crap happens the is not kosher."

Do you not agree that there are bad actors?

[PaceAdvantage]

Do you not agree that there are bad actors?Stop with the stupid questions.

What do you think I'm going to say? All races ever run have been 100% legit?

I'm asking you to DEFEND EMD's CONSTANT accusations against certain individuals and then ask you how these people are allowed to do what EMD says they do...by not only the stewards, but their rival jockeys and rival trainers.

How do they keep getting mounts? Why aren't they blacklisted by their peers?

Or is it your contention that ALL are bad actors, and ALL are in on it?

Because if you don't believe that, then why do you believe EMD?

[Tom]

Why would anyone but a fool play the races at a track where every race is rigged and every jockey is out to get them?

[duncan04]

Why would anyone but a fool play the races at a track where every race is rigged and every jockey is out to get them?

Because they would have nothing to complain about. :D

[AlBundy33]

Why would anyone but a fool play the races at a track where every race is rigged and every jockey is out to get them?

I remember you saying that if you play somewhere other than where there are sun and palm trees, you get what you deserve. :D

[bello]

It was a rhetorical question, but I suspect by some of the folks answering in this thread seem to think everyone on the track is a saint.

Trying to strike a balance but in reality it really does not matter. We should all play where we are comfortable.

[SuperPickle]

Stop with the stupid questions.

What do you think I'm going to say? All races ever run have been 100% legit?

I'm asking you to DEFEND EMD's CONSTANT accusations against certain individuals and then ask you how these people are allowed to do what EMD says they do...by not only the stewards, but their rival jockeys and rival trainers.

How do they keep getting mounts? Why aren't they blacklisted by their peers?

Or is it your contention that ALL are bad actors, and ALL are in on it?

Because if you don't believe that, then why do you believe EMD?

I've tried going this route of logic with people on this board and you're never going to win. I've actually interviewed and met people who have fixed races. They'd be the first people to explain to you no one would ever fix this race because even if you can get Constellation to not fire the field is so short there's a possible she could still run 2nd or 2rd at 70%. What if one of the other horses doesn't fire? What if one of them stumbles? It's a horrible proposition. She's 20-40 Beyers points better at 100%

Also its a high profile race. Race fixers would tell you always fix low profile races generally on weekdays. Not allowance races on weekends.

It's amazing the people who scream fix the quickest know the least about fixing.

But PA the thing is none of these guys care. You're dealing with people who when they see a dead body claim murder. Who when they see a fire claim arson. It's what's wired in their head. There's no logic or evidence to present to them that will make them believe.

[bello]

I've tried going this route of logic with people on this board and you're never going to win. I've actually interviewed and met people who have fixed races. They'd be the first people to explain to you no one would ever fix this race because even if you can get Constellation to not fire the field is so short there's a possible she could still run 2nd or 2rd at 70%. What if one of the other horses doesn't fire? What if one of them stumbles? It's a horrible proposition. She's 20-40 Beyers points better at 100%

Also its a high profile race. Race fixers would tell you always fix low profile races generally on weekdays. Not allowance races on weekends.

It's amazing the people who scream fix the quickest know the least about fixing.

But PA the thing is none of these guys care. You're dealing with people who when they see a dead body claim murder. Who when they see a fire claim arson. It's what's wired in their head. There's no logic or evidence to present to them that will make them believe.
Please tell us about the race fixers you have interviewed. Are any of those interviews published anywhere? Would love to learn ore about how the races are fixed.

[EMD4ME]

I've tried going this route of logic with people on this board and you're never going to win. I've actually interviewed and met people who have fixed races. They'd be the first people to explain to you no one would ever fix this race because even if you can get Constellation to not fire the field is so short there's a possible she could still run 2nd or 2rd at 70%. What if one of the other horses doesn't fire? What if one of them stumbles? It's a horrible proposition. She's 20-40 Beyers points better at 100%

Also its a high profile race. Race fixers would tell you always fix low profile races generally on weekdays. Not allowance races on weekends.

It's amazing the people who scream fix the quickest know the least about fixing.

But PA the thing is none of these guys care. You're dealing with people who when they see a dead body claim murder. Who when they see a fire claim arson. It's what's wired in their head. There's no logic or evidence to present to them that will make them believe.

What if I were to tell you that Takree's last race figure is wrong. Beyer gave her a 75. It should have been an 85.

What if I were to tell you that Tareek's race 2 back had room for major improvement. The horse was lugging in from inside the 1/4 to the 1/8 (causing her burst to be wasted on being straightened out) and that she was geared down after never really being allowed to run in that race. Her 68 was a 68 PLUS due to the aforementioned facts. More like a 75-79.

Your logic on NOT picking that race is fallible.

I've seen these boys be more brazen than any other boys. I am on track 150 times a year. I talk to trainers, I talk to owners, I talk to jockey agents, I talk to grooms, illegal alien barn employees, I talk to the Jamaicans, I talk to people who are in the know.

I'm not some guy behind a keyboard, betting $5 a race on 2 horses making some wild claims because I lose money. I do however, bet a decent amount of money.

I bet along with what I think the boys will do ;) I bet against handicapping methods as I know what these jocks are capable of at NYRA.

I don't bitch because my 1/9 was stiffed. I liked Takrees in that race.

BTW, I disagree on the weekend/weekday stuff. Most peculiar rides are on Sat/Sun. Bigger pools on those days.

[EMD4ME]

Why would anyone but a fool play the races at a track where every race is rigged and every jockey is out to get them?

Very simple Tom. I like to make money. Handicapping their script and what races they will play with is extremely lucrative.

[EMD4ME]

Stop with the stupid questions.

What do you think I'm going to say? All races ever run have been 100% legit?

I'm asking you to DEFEND EMD's CONSTANT accusations against certain individuals and then ask you how these people are allowed to do what EMD says they do...by not only the stewards, but their rival jockeys and rival trainers.

How do they keep getting mounts? Why aren't they blacklisted by their peers?

Or is it your contention that ALL are bad actors, and ALL are in on it?

Because if you don't believe that, then why do you believe EMD?


I've personally, with 5 other people, have watched a NYRA trainer curse up a storm at Jose Ortiz during a race. The trainer screamed that his crystal clear instructions were to do A, B and C.

Jose did Z, Y, and P.


Trainer-" I wil never use a M F'N Ortiz on any of my horses EEEEEVVVEEEER AGAIN. F'n crooks".


Me-I'm sorry Mr. Blank. But can I please give you some feedback on your comments.


Trainer-Yes.

Me- Yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda

Trainer-Your F'N RIGHT. I see the same thing. I'm sick of this crap.

Me- What can you do sir?

Trainer- I'm going to use an apprentice or anyone but them.

Me- Cancel?

Trainer- Yes, CANCEL. I'm going to use from now on.

Me- You know that CANCEL has suddenly forgotten to go to the lead and has many peculiar rides himself?

Trainer- You're right but what can I do?

Me- Good luck sir. I walk away.

Something tells me that if 1 NYRA trainer who is pretty solid doesn't really see it all but sees enough to have a public display of disgust (and say the same things that I say), there must be many more that I don't see.

[EMD4ME]

I have a question.... I don't know the answer obviously ... that was a pretty large bridge jump. how much was the track going to lose on that race had the horse ran second? And no i'm not applying anything by asking this question.

NYRA was not necessarily at risk for a loss buddy.

It's the track that takes the bet that is at risk.

I personally don't think NYRA had anything to do with her last place finish.

[Hard2Like]

Jockey's fault
Announcers are rootin against me
All barns are dope factories
Stewards are all Bozos
Tracks are fixin the big pools
Handicappers are givin out losers on purpose
Beyer doesn't respect me
And blah, blah, bleccchhh.

It's called Pamprin and my old lady says it works.

[EMD4ME]

I'm not talking about this specific race, or any specific race.

I'm talking about people like EMD that have vilified a number of jockeys, accusing them of CONSISTENTLY and almost CONSTANTLY messing with the outcome of races...ON PURPOSE.

Now that you know where I'm coming from, maybe we can get back on track and not start this whole "Well, you're a naive fool who doesn't know what they hell you're talking about" nonsense.

I don't villify a single soul.

They villify themselves.

I have a question PA.

How often are you on track at NYRA?

If more than 20, please ask certain people. Not the $2 degenerates with an IQ of 5 or 55.

But the true die hards if they think everything is on the up and up.

I AM NOT some psycho who loses money and comes on here to complain.

I am the VOICE of many who see all this and throw their arms in the air saying: "What can ya do? All I can do is stop betting or bet less as it's too much of a joke to wager on".

I didn't create some thread about a race fix. I simply replied in a thread about a 1/9 who suspiciously had an extremely curious ride.

I don't see where my factual points are an issue. (Q1 times for that day, lack of encouraging the horse early, being herded in the lane 2x, listing specific horses who had extremely peculiar rides at short odds, Rudy Rodriguez's dissatisfaction with Jose's character etc.)

[Kash$]

I don't villify a single soul.

They villify themselves.

I have a question PA.

How often are you on track at NYRA?

If more than 20, please ask certain people. Not the $2 degenerates with an IQ of 5 or 55.

But the true die hards if they think everything is on the up and up.

I AM NOT some psycho who loses money and comes on here to complain.

I am the VOICE of many who see all this and throw their arms in the air saying: "What can ya do? All I can do is stop betting or bet less as it's too much of a joke to wager on".

I didn't create some thread about a race fix. I simply replied in a thread about a 1/9 who suspiciously had an extremely curious ride.

I don't see where my factual points are an issue. (Q1 times for that day, lack of encouraging the horse early, being herded in the lane 2x, listing specific horses who had extremely peculiar rides at short odds, Rudy Rodriguez's dissatisfaction with Jose's character etc.)


Juicing
Stiffing
Not giving best effort is fixing races

[EMD4ME]

How is it even possible that all these races EMD and SRU and others (although not as regularly) post about can be tampered with? And nobody of importance seems to notice except these two guys?

Rival trainers and jockeys just let these guys have free fun of the joint? Messing with races left and right? And they still get mounts? Or are they riding for only one trainer who is "in on it all?"

Think of how insane you guys sound to normal people who have been around the game for a while.

I have zero proof-disclaimer-but it's obvious that 3 people aren't doing there job, that simple.

Quite frankly, I look at all you doubters the same way. I think of how insane all of you guys are for thinking every race is on the up and up.

You guys seriously remind me of kids who still believe that the WWE is real fighting with undetermined results.

Now, with that said, I am not saying all horse races are fixed. Not even saying that most are even a portion.

You can never know unless you are in the jockey's brain.

I don't have that luxury but I think we can all agree on the following:

There isn't a soul on here that believes that all races are 100% on the up and up.

Meaning, that all jockeys in the race are truly riding to win with no predetermined CORRUPT outcome in mind.

Am I saying this race was one of those? Not exactly. I am 100% saying it was extremely coincidental and peculiar.

IMO, Jose has a knack for underperforming in certain situations, to the benefit of his buddy/unofficial cousin Manuel Franco and to his brother Irad.

[EMD4ME]

Juicing
Stiffing
Not giving best effort is fixing races

I guess one can say that is true.

Wait a minute, the FBI did say that juicing a horse is race fixing.

Nevermind the other crap that goes on.

[EMD4ME]

You guys up on the grassy knoll crack me up with your jockey/steward conspiracies. A horse can't just run a bad race--had to be something more sinister going on...since horses ALWAYS run as expected.

I'm not complaining, though...this would be a far less interesting board without you. :)

NCG, please do yourself a favor, because I love ya.

Stop with the database analysis and watch 10,000 more replays in HD super closely over and over again.

PM me when the epiphany comes :)

[iamt]

Of the Voices of Many that you speak for, is it possible that most of them exist only in your head??

[EMD4ME]

Some of you are whacked.

I'm starting not to believe you bet the kind of money you claim (EMD). And if you do, then you're losing your shirt and must have some very deep pockets.

See attached please. Out of all people on here, I think my credibility is up there (not as much as TLG and others) with at least the second tier crowd on here BUT I understand your doubts sir.

I am not losing my shirt. Handicapping the games that go on out there is pretty lucrative, especially if you bet multi's.

[EMD4ME]

Of the Voices of Many that you speak for, is it possible that most of them exist only in your head??

That's almost funny :)


Keep it up, you'll get there soon (pat on the back).

[NorCalGreg]

I've personally, with 5 other people, have watched a NYRA trainer curse up a storm at Jose Ortiz during a race. The trainer screamed that his crystal clear instructions were to do A, B and C.

Jose did Z, Y, and P.


Trainer-" I wil never use a M F'N Ortiz on any of my horses EEEEEVVVEEEER AGAIN. F'n crooks".


Me-I'm sorry Mr. Blank. But can I please give you some feedback on your comments.


Trainer-Yes.

Me- Yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda

Trainer-Your F'N RIGHT. I see the same thing. I'm sick of this crap.

Me- What can you do sir?

Trainer- I'm going to use an apprentice or anyone but them.

Me- Cancel?

Trainer- Yes, CANCEL. I'm going to use from now on.

Me- You know that CANCEL has suddenly forgotten to go to the lead and has many peculiar rides himself?

Trainer- You're right but what can I do?

Me- Good luck sir. I walk away.



You forgot the last line of your fairy tale---allow me:


........and then I woke up.



EMD

[EMD4ME]

You forgot the last line of your fairy tale---allow me:


........and then I woke up.



EMD

For being SO rude and accusatory of fibbing....

I don't normally say this but

F OFF.

Now, with that said: How about next time you're in NY, I introduce you to that trainer?

Or how about you call me and I'll put the trainer on the phone?

[duncan04]

For being SO rude and accusatory of fibbing....

I don't normally say this but

F OFF.

Now, with that said: How about next time you're in NY, I introduce you to that trainer?

Or how about you call me and I'll put the trainer on the phone?

This thread is comedic gold. Why stay involved if you are so sure of fixing and it happening so much? Makes no sense. Seems like every other day its something else.

[EMD4ME]

This thread is comedic gold. Why stay involved if you are so sure of fixing and it happening so much? Makes no sense. Seems like every other day its something else.

It's profitable in multi's, that's why.

I should take a poll for PA members. How many of you have invested $1000 into a Pick 5 or Pick 6?

Now for those that have done so (alone). How many of you have done so every week for years?

For those that answer yes, then talk to me.

For those that haven't. We're on different levels/planets. There's no point in interacting. We just will never understand eachother.

[Kash$]

This thread is comedic gold. Why stay involved if you are so sure of fixing and it happening so much? Makes no sense. Seems like every other day its something else.




He stays involved because he's beating them..take a look at his adw pic...

I talk to him couple days a week text everyday about horses he's a good guy very passionate...

[NorCalGreg]

For being SO rude and accusatory of fibbing....

I don't normally say this but

F OFF.

Now, with that said: How about next time you're in NY, I introduce you to that trainer?

Or how about you call me and I'll put the trainer on the phone?

I didn't want to have to do this....but you leave me no choice--I called some favors in, and got your REAL STATEMENT from NYRA

LOL...EMD you know you're my bud, man.....but you're really getting bizarre

[EMD4ME]

He stays involved because he's beating them..take a look at his adw pic...

I talk to him couple days a week text everyday about horses he's a good guy very passionate...

Nice of you to say. Don't bother though, you're wasting your breath.

I get the feeling most people on here don't have their true skin in the game the way others do.

Hence, why integrity is not vital to them. When you lose $50 a month, it just won't burn you that somethings are not natural.

When you're alive for $200,000 and lose due to jockey camaraderie, hit me up and let's discuss.

When you HIT for $50K due to detecting bullshit, give me a call as then the shared drink will resonate more.

[NorCalGreg]

Okay....I'm done messing with you EMD.

[NorCalGreg]

He stays involved because he's beating them..take a look at his adw pic...

I talk to him couple days a week text everyday about horses he's a good guy very passionate...


Yep Mr Kash$.....I'm convinced

[EMD4ME]

I didn't want to have to do this....but you leave me no choice--I called some favors in, and got your REAL STATEMENT from NYRA

LOL...EMD you know you're my bud, man.....but you're really getting bizarre

#10 NCG.....


Envy is an issue brother. Thou shall not covet......

I am a man of character, honor and my word is EVERYTHING.

The door, is open. If anyone wants to meet me at the BIG A to pull up my ADW stats, come on over.

PM ME and I'd even buy you a beer or 3.

I average $500,000 a year minumum in handle. I actually feel like a tiny fish next to the people I play with.

When I came on here, I thought I was a tiny ameba.

Beginning to see that's not the case and IT'S also the reason for the hate on here.

[duncan04]

It's profitable in multi's, that's why.

I should take a poll for PA members. How many of you have invested $1000 into a Pick 5 or Pick 6?

Now for those that have done so (alone). How many of you have done so every week for years?

For those that answer yes, then talk to me.

For those that haven't. We're on different levels/planets. There's no point in interacting. We just will never understand eachother.

First off I don't care how much you claim to bet. Seems like you are ok with the cheating if it benefits you but if it doesn't you cry and moan.

So because of how much you bet, you come up with bizarre conspiracy theories? Both you and SRU seem to come up with something else daily. :rolleyes: Its almost like a competition who can come up with a better story

[Hard2Like]

Are you "The Fat Guy" ?

[EMD4ME]

First off I don't care how much you claim to bet. Seems like you are ok with the cheating if it benefits you but if it doesn't you cry and moan.

So because of how much you bet, you come up with bizarre conspiracy theories? Both you and SRU seem to come up with something else daily. :rolleyes: Its almost like a competition who can come up with a better story

PA cared how much I bet, so I replied.

One crowd says You lose and that's why you complain.

Another crowd says: You are ok with benefitting from cheating but when it doesn't benefit you, you cry.

I AM NOT CRYING. I liked Takrees in the race in question.

I was simply giving honest feeback on the race.

You want the truth? It's painfully obvious most on here can't handle the truth. So you complain or attack no matter what because it makes you feel better.

You're wasting your time. I don't care to be liked or hated. I simply love this game with every fiber of my being and love discussing it.

[Tall One]

I missed your replies in the thread, EMD, so I get your reply to me in other. No offense taken if you don't bother replying over there. It's cool. :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

First off I don't care how much you claim to bet. Seems like you are ok with the cheating if it benefits you but if it doesn't you cry and moan.

So because of how much you bet, you come up with bizarre conspiracy theories? Both you and SRU seem to come up with something else daily. :rolleyes: Its almost like a competition who can come up with a better story

I don't think there's anything bizarre about EMD explaining in detail specifics from his video work, why is that 'bizarre'?

Also, why would you criticize a person by saying they 'cry and moan' ? If a mugger hit you over the head and took your wallet and you came to PA and said you got robbed and I said to you 'stop moaning' you would take offense to that, right?

[Hard2Like]

In the words of the late, great Gordon Solie
"the tag has been made!"

[Stillriledup]

This thread is comedic gold. Why stay involved if you are so sure of fixing and it happening so much? Makes no sense. Seems like every other day its something else.

Is it uncomfortable for you that people discuss the shady side of the sport you grew up loving?

[bello]

Once thing I noticed about EMD early on is this guy knows how to watch and analyze a race.

Many people who use computer programs just don't get the visual. Many people who do not spend live and in color time at the racetrack also do not live the dynamics of what occurs at the track and what you can really find out by being at the track.

Comparing two different types of people. I am a visual race watcher and EMD and I often will scratch our heads by the lack of competitiveness in so many races this winter.

Listening to the public handicapper discussions on pace projections at the Big A is a joke. There are never any speed duels this winter. Every serious handicapper I know recognizes this. The line-ups border Yonkers harness racing. Get your heads out of the computer and you will see.

The pace projection guys should be on here challenging these guys as EMD does, where are they?

BTW, this is no skin off of my ass. I am only a big better when I am at the racetrack, any racetrack. I have been to practically every track in the country. Other than that I am a nickle and dimer. Bet too little to ever get pissed off.

I am so reluctant to comment because I am not actually at the Big A live and in color. From afar and from what I hear it seems like a couple of different cliques are controlling things. If you think a small stable trainer or owner can complain and make a difference, they cannot. Notice the fields Thursday...8 races after a short Easter week. The small owners and stables are deserting the game folks.Especially in Ny, where the small owners used to at least have a shot during the winter. They are gone.

[Hard2Like]

It's uncomfortable for me that my favorite website on the intranet
sounds more like open phones on coast to coast am than it does the place I've come to know and appreciate as a solid source of horse race wagering information.

[EMD4ME]

It's uncomfortable for me that my favorite website on the intranet
sounds more like open phones on coast to coast am than it does the place I've come to know and appreciate as a solid source of horse race wagering information.

I've tried to stick my head in the sand like a dumb ostrich and tell myself you didn't just see what you saw.


It doesn't work. When you're smart, you know stupid when you see it.

When you're dumb, you have no clue what smart looks like.

Same thing at the track.

If this is not the place for discussing all things horseracing, good/bad/beautiful/ugly then forgive me as I thought it was.

[EMD4ME]

[QUOTE=bello]

Many people who use computer programs just don't get the visual. Many people who do not spend live and in color time at the racetrack also do not live the dynamics of what occurs at the track and what you can really find out by being at the track.

Extremely well said and 10000000000000000000% true.

I would venture to say a majority of posters on here are computer people with little replay watching AND spend most of their wagering time behind a keyboard with an ADW.

Not critiquing those 2 preferences. To each his own.

Simply repeating what you just said. A LOT AND I MEAN A LOT, will be missed while enjoying this game that way.

[Hard2Like]

Try stickin it further down.

[EMD4ME]

This thread is comedic gold. Why stay involved if you are so sure of fixing and it happening so much? Makes no sense. Seems like every other day its something else.


Are you the same type of guy that thinks Thunder Gulch's Derby win was not electrically aided?

Was that a LOW FIVE Gary Stevens gave Pat Day? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, the charge of electrical current that Pat Day had go through his body (during that low five on the gallop out) was from static that 2 humans sometimes generate :lol: :lol: :lol:

And THAT is why they had to LOW FIVE TWICE :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Stillriledup]

It's uncomfortable for me that my favorite website on the intranet
sounds more like open phones on coast to coast am than it does the place I've come to know and appreciate as a solid source of horse race wagering information.

There are two types of posters for the most part. The first poster is a gambler who bets money on a daily basis, takes the game deadly seriously and is watching races and replays of all classes of races for all tracks until the wee hours of the morning. The other poster is not really involved in the hard core betting on a daily basis so they're not really in tune to the daily minutia of the everyday gambler, they're more fans Of the sport and the big races and aren't really dissecting 3k claimers at penn national.

I've found that the casual fan gets frustrated when the hard core types get into the analysis that hard core types are known for.

If you want 'horsey talk' from fanboys who don't bet, you can find at here at PA. It you want the other stuff, you can find that too, no need to get down on the greatest Horse racing message board out there!

[EMD4ME]

In the words of the late, great Gordon Solie
"the tag has been made!"

To prove I'm unbiased and I call it like I see it McMahon....

That was a good one :ThmbUp:

[Hard2Like]

No. Just,no.
I'm not even sure what all that other drivel is intended to mean,
but,"hard core types" is just so far away from how all the non-stop arguing and whining and self promotion comes across.

Congratulations on all those posts, too.

[iamt]

The two types of posters are those who quietly express their opinion in the search of discussion, and those who continue to throw it down everyone's throat while stating their opinion as fact.

When the latter class clash it is the equivalent of two guys yelling mindlessly at each other, both convinced they are right, and is nothing more than noise for those on the outside of the argument.

For those people who like to read these boards looking for ideas and thoughts, these arguments on each parties own "facts" make reading the board that much more tedious.

[Stillriledup]

No. Just,no.
I'm not even sure what all that other drivel is intended to mean,
but,"hard core types" is just so far away from how all the non-stop arguing and whining and self promotion comes across.

Congratulations on all those posts, too.

Horseplayers are incredibly passionate and have big egos, what did you expect to find on a horse racing board?

[Stillriledup]

The two types of posters are those who quietly express their opinion in the search of discussion, and those who continue to throw it down everyone's throat while stating their opinion as fact.

When the latter class clash it is the equivalent of two guys yelling mindlessly at each other, both convinced they are right, and is nothing more than noise for those on the outside of the argument.

For those people who like to read these boards looking for ideas and thoughts, these arguments on each parties own "facts" make reading the board that much more tedious.

If you read a post from someone who is shoving something down your throat, you can put that person on ignore.

Tedious reading solved. See how easy that was?

[EMD4ME]

The two types of posters are those who quietly express their opinion in the search of discussion, and those who continue to throw it down everyone's throat while stating their opinion as fact.

When the latter class clash it is the equivalent of two guys yelling mindlessly at each other, both convinced they are right, and is nothing more than noise for those on the outside of the argument.

For those people who like to read these boards looking for ideas and thoughts, these arguments on each parties own "facts" make reading the board that much more tedious.

Not sure where this is directed but just in case it's towards me....

I always search to discuss.

It's hard to not post 1000 times when every other post is a sniper attack on me like I am some rookie who's just learning this game.

I am weak at detecting trolls, I admit. Need to work on that. Nevertheless, you'll never find me pig headed and saying I'm right, your wrong. In fact, I think I lead the place in :My apologies, you're right.


BTW, you're in a thread about a 1/9 going down in a 4 horse field as the lone speed. Not some idea thread. Mean that nicely. Maybe the other threads are better for ideas.

[Hard2Like]

Horseplayers are incredibly passionate and have big egos, what did you expect to find on a horse racing board?

I found the goods here for over 10 years. Still do.
Like I said, the self-serving, petty, sour grapes, post race, 5 draft beer OTB guy whining and complaining and arguing and know-it-all about everything and on and on and.... Just gets real old, to me.
And don't worry about me and the Ignore list, as I took you two clowns off of it for tonite only.

[EMD4ME]

I found the goods here for over 10 years. Still do.
Like I said, the self-serving, petty, sour grapes, post race, 5 draft beer OTB guy whining and complaining and arguing and know-it-all about everything and on and on and.... Just gets real old, to me.
And don't worry about me and the Ignore list, as I took you two clowns off of it for tonite only.

Now I see where your name came from :sleeping:

[iamt]

Not sure where this is directed but just in case it's towards me....

I always search to discuss.

It's hard to not post 1000 times when every other post is a sniper attack on me like I am some rookie who's just learning this game.

I am weak at detecting trolls, I admit. Need to work on that. Nevertheless, you'll never find me pig headed and saying I'm right, your wrong. In fact, I think I lead the place in :My apologies, you're right.


BTW, you're in a thread about a 1/9 going down in a 4 horse field as the lone speed. Not some idea thread. Mean that nicely. Maybe the other threads are better for ideas.


At what point in this thread have you even hinted that another persons interpretation of Constellation's run may be correct?

I can only see posts re-asserting the "facts" that you see. Not to say that your view is correct or incorrect, it is after all a game of opinions.

[Hard2Like]

The two phrases from track handicappers in the DRF
that turned my handicapping adventures around

[EMD4ME]

At what point in this thread have you even hinted that another persons interpretation of Constellation's run may be correct?

I can only see posts re-asserting the "facts" that you see. Not to say that your view is correct or incorrect, it is after all a game of opinions.

Post 29, I posted my opinion.

Post 33,

We agree to disagree. Or at least I agree to disagree.

Let's discuss something other than what we are disagreeing about. In your opinion, did Jose ask his horse for speed early? If you agree he didn't, what do you think the HKJC would say about a ride like that on a 1/9 shot who's best shot is to lead in a paceless race? Do you think that was the "best" thing to do for this horse to win (rate and stay 10 wide early for 7 seconds)?


That is my sincere way of saying, we agree to disagree. Can we discuss other aspects of this?

I don't need to win anyone over. Hence why I moved right past the disagreement portion of the interaction.

Posts 61 and on were replies to countless posts towards me.

[EMD4ME]

The two phrases from track handicappers in the DRF
that turned my handicapping adventures around

Hopeless Longshot

Zippy Chippy in disguise

Needs a 10 second headstart

Those are some of my favorites when looking at horses that I find Hard2Like ;)

[EMD4ME]

The two phrases from track handicappers in the DRF
that turned my handicapping adventures around

9 years and 77 posts. Well, I'm sure SRU must be thinking he lured another rare poster out of the woodwork. Good job SRU!

Where have ya been Hard2Like? This place is more interesting with you in it. Glad someone got you out of your shell and motivated you to post.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think of how insane all of you guys are for thinking every race is on the up and up.Yeah, that's what I do. I go around saying every race is on the up and up.

Are you stupid? I know you're not.

[Stillriledup]

I found the goods here for over 10 years. Still do.
Like I said, the self-serving, petty, sour grapes, post race, 5 draft beer OTB guy whining and complaining and arguing and know-it-all about everything and on and on and.... Just gets real old, to me.
And don't worry about me and the Ignore list, as I took you two clowns off of it for tonite only.

You should get together w Vic Stuffer you two have very similar posting styles, have certain posters on 'ignore' and use some of the same jargon he uses too. You both also defend stewards. You two could be fric and frac!

[PaceAdvantage]

See attached please. Out of all people on here, I think my credibility is up there (not as much as TLG and others) with at least the second tier crowd on here BUT I understand your doubts sir.

I am not losing my shirt. Handicapping the games that go on out there is pretty lucrative, especially if you bet multi's.You're gonna cite TLG as someone with credibility? But you completely dismiss him when he basically tells you you're dead wrong.

[Hard2Like]

Cheap speed
a**sniffer
Suffolk shipper

[PaceAdvantage]

It's profitable in multi's, that's why.

I should take a poll for PA members. How many of you have invested $1000 into a Pick 5 or Pick 6?

Now for those that have done so (alone). How many of you have done so every week for years?

For those that answer yes, then talk to me.

For those that haven't. We're on different levels/planets. There's no point in interacting. We just will never understand eachother.There are plenty of wealthy people who bet tons of money and lose. How much you bet doesn't matter much if you're losing it in the end.

[EMD4ME]

You're gonna cite TLG as someone with credibility? But you completely dismiss him when he basically tells you you're dead wrong.

Yes, I respect and love Andy's work. If all of us agree all the time, all horses would be 1/9 and there would be nothing but posts here saying: You're right. No, you're even more right.

[iamt]

Post 33 still doesn't read as an acknowledgement that another opinion may be correct, just that another one exists, that you think is incorrect.

From that point on you are responding to people who have read the same proclamations repeatedly about AQU at the moment and other topics.

[EMD4ME]

There are plenty of wealthy people who bet tons of money and lose. How much you bet doesn't matter much if you're losing it in the end.

1000% Correct.

For the record, I am not wealthy. You questioned how much I wager, I respectfully answered.

[PaceAdvantage]

Here's a simple question EMD.

What is the motivation for these rather successful jockeys to risk their careers by altering the results of all these races you post about?

What's the end game here? Without naming names...let's follow the money. Are these guys doing this for themselves? Are they hooked up with the mob?

What's the scoop? You're a self-professed "dialed-in" person. What's the real story?

[EMD4ME]

Post 33 still doesn't read as an acknowledgement that another opinion may be correct, just that another one exists, that you think is incorrect.

From that point on you are responding to people who have read the same proclamations repeatedly about AQU at the moment and other topics.

And?

Am I required to change my thought all because someone said you are wrong?

I went back and watched the replay another 20 times. Slowly. Pan and head on.

Didn't pass my smell test.

Am I required to change my opinion?

I have no desire to convince anyone of anything. Hence, why I simply moved past it.

Why is that so foreign to some people?

[Hard2Like]

You should get together w Vic Stuffer you two have very similar posting styles, have certain posters on 'ignore' and use some of the same jargon he uses too. You both also defend stewards. You two could be fric and frac!

WTF is posting style?
Hold on.
Please don't answer that.

[iamt]

And?

Am I required to change my thought all because someone said you are wrong?

I went back and watched the replay another 20 times. Slowly. Pan and head on.

Didn't pass my smell test.

Am I required to change my opinion?

I have no desire to convince anyone of anything. Hence, why I simply moved past it.

Why is that so foreign to some people?

No, you don't need to change your mind. But this issue with the rider and jockey colony has been done to death, you aren't to be convinced differently nor are you converting anyone. It's just noise.

[EMD4ME]

Here's a simple question EMD.

What is the motivation for these rather successful jockeys to risk their careers by altering the results of all these races you post about?

Greed is a dirty demon. Plus, you're good at math. 100% of a lot is more than 50% of a ton.

What's the end game here? Without naming names...let's follow the money. Are these guys doing this for themselves? Are they hooked up with the mob?

Wow, you seem pretty dialed in.

What's the scoop? You're a self-professed "dialed-in" person. What's the real story?


I'm not self-professed anything. I love this game and it KILLS me to see "weird" crap left and right. Is that so foreign to all of you here?

What is so wrong with disecting minute details of every ride? And when you see/project something shady will happen (because of who is riding which horse) and then it does happen, calling it out (despite wagering accordingly)?

[EMD4ME]

No, you don't need to change your mind. But this issue with the rider and jockey colony has been done to death, you aren't to be convinced differently nor are you converting anyone. It's just noise.

If that's the consensus, then I won't partake. Not a problem.

[PaceAdvantage]

Coming up with clear and convincing motivation for these "antics" would go a long way to giving your theories added credibility.

[EMD4ME]

Yeah, that's what I do. I go around saying every race is on the up and up.

Are you stupid? I know you're not.

Was talking to the attackers.

You don't count as I know you're just doing what I would be doing if I were you. I would be putting me in my place :)

[Hard2Like]

No, you don't need to change your mind. But this issue with the rider and jockey colony has been done to death, you aren't to be convinced differently nor are you converting anyone. It's just noise.

You fellow lowly double digit poster, you.
Our opinions are not worthy of consideration by these.....
"HARD CORE TYPES"

[EMD4ME]

Coming up with clear and convincing motivation for these "antics" would go a long way to giving your theories added credibility.

To answer your post Boss. I have no proof and I am not saying this happened BUT since you asked there was $400,000 (appx) in that place pool. There were 4 horses in the race. The 2 was really hopeless and it was reasonable to expect her to miss the board (if the 3 was left loose). You just needed 1 jock to have a curious ride and then bet the 1&3 to place to make $100,000-$200,000 tax free.

Response, part 2:

I don't need to do that HERE.

You asked me to not names, you wanted it so here it goes.

QUOTE:

YOU STIFFED 7 OF MY HORSES (TO JOCKEY). YOU WILL NEVER STEP FOOT ON MY HORSES AGAIN. YOU ARE A CROOK.

This was said in the last month to a jockey from a trainer (not a 10% or a 15% trainer) .

If anyone AND I MEAN anyone wants this verified. Come to AQU and I will personally walk you over to the source. I will gladly introduce you and walk away. After you are done hearing it yourself (and having the source walk you over to the trainer to hear it directly from them), I would politely ask for an apology.

[EMD4ME]

You fellow lowly double digit poster, you.
Our opinions are not worthy of consideration by these.....
"HARD CORE TYPES"

I was sincere when I said "where have you been?". You're a welcome addition.

Still stand by that. You add flavor, at least IMHO.

[PaceAdvantage]

To answer your post Boss. I have no proof and I am not saying this happened BUT since you asked there was $400,000 (appx) in that place pool. There were 4 horses in the race. The 2 was really hopeless and it was reasonable to expect her to miss the board (if the 3 was left loose). You just needed 1 jock to have a curious ride and then bet the 1&3 to place to make $100,000-$200,000 tax free.

Response, part 2:

I don't need to do that HERE.

You asked me to not names, you wanted it so here it goes.

QUOTE:

YOU STIFFED 7 OF MY HORSES (TO JOCKEY). YOU WILL NEVER STEP FOOT ON MY HORSES AGAIN. YOU ARE A CROOK.

This was said in the last month to a jockey from a trainer (not a 10% or a 15% trainer) .

If anyone AND I MEAN anyone wants this verified. Come to AQU and I will personally walk you over to the source. I will gladly introduce you and walk away. After you are done hearing it yourself (and having the source walk you over to the trainer to hear it directly from them), I would politely ask for an apology.So your reply to me is that the jockeys themselves (or their family members/friends) are betting into these races to cash big?

Or are they working for a syndicate? And if so, why? How much of a cut are they getting that they put their careers at risk not to mention a pretty decent amount of incarceration.

[EMD4ME]

So your reply to me is that the jockeys themselves (or their family members/friends) are betting into these races to cash big?

Or are they working for a syndicate? And if so, why? How much of a cut are they getting that they put their careers at risk not to mention a pretty decent amount of incarceration.

Are you kidding? We both know that a ton of people are milking this game to squeeze every penny out of it while it's still around. I would be shocked beyond an electrocution if anyone and I mean if a single soul out there is even sniffing around for anything nefarious in most jurisdictions.

I have no idea what the real reason is for all the FBI work at PENN but I would guess it has nothing to do with just cleaning up the "game". Sounds like there is some possible political motivation behind it.

When you have people writing to IRAD on Twitter about curious rides and his response is:

'We/Jockeys control the game. You dont like it find something else to do'


We have some serious issues on our hands from an integrity perspective.

That's a pretty brazen comment to make from a jockey on a permanently documented device.

[PaceAdvantage]

After multiple replies, you're still not giving an answer. You can just say "I don't know."

The Ortiz brothers have banked nearly $8,000,000 in purse money between them at Aqueduct alone this year. At Saratoga they banked almost $8,000,000 between them.

And you're saying they're gonna risk throwing that away to cash a bet, or worse, get a cut of a bet placed by someone else?

Makes no sense.

WHAT'S THE MOTIVATION?

[EMD4ME]

After multiple replies, you're still not giving an answer. You can just say "I don't know."

The Ortiz brothers have banked nearly $8,000,000 in purse money between them at Aqueduct alone this year. At Saratoga they banked almost $8,000,000 between them.

And you're saying they're gonna risk throwing that away to cash a bet, or worse, get a cut of a bet placed by someone else?

Makes no sense.

WHAT'S THE MOTIVATION?

I PM'd you over 1 year ago what the "word" was at AQU.

I will not post on here something that I have not been able to verify with my own to eyes and ears.

Everything else I say, I say because I saw it or heard it or had it verified.

With that said: If it smells like a skunk, looks like a skunk, moves like a skunk and he's called Pepe Le Pew guess what he's probably a skunk.

[PaceAdvantage]

PM me again.

[Kash$]

To answer your post Boss. I have no proof and I am not saying this happened BUT since you asked there was $400,000 (appx) in that place pool. There were 4 horses in the race. The 2 was really hopeless and it was reasonable to expect her to miss the board (if the 3 was left loose). You just needed 1 jock to have a curious ride and then bet the 1&3 to place to make $100,000-$200,000 tax free.

Response, part 2:

I don't need to do that HERE.

You asked me to not names, you wanted it so here it goes.

QUOTE:

YOU STIFFED 7 OF MY HORSES (TO JOCKEY). YOU WILL NEVER STEP FOOT ON MY HORSES AGAIN. YOU ARE A CROOK.

This was said in the last month to a jockey from a trainer (not a 10% or a 15% trainer) .

If anyone AND I MEAN anyone wants this verified. Come to AQU and I will personally walk you over to the source. I will gladly introduce you and walk away. After you are done hearing it yourself (and having the source walk you over to the trainer to hear it directly from them), I would politely ask for an apology.


Anyone who wants the name of the trainer can pm me Emd 100% correct.

[Stillriledup]

After multiple replies, you're still not giving an answer. You can just say "I don't know."

The Ortiz brothers have banked nearly $8,000,000 in purse money between them at Aqueduct alone this year. At Saratoga they banked almost $8,000,000 between them.

And you're saying they're gonna risk throwing that away to cash a bet, or worse, get a cut of a bet placed by someone else?

Makes no sense.

WHAT'S THE MOTIVATION?

This line of thinking is that 'well heeled' people don't commit crimes because they 'don't need the money'

There's a lot of proof that in society 'rich' doesn't automatically make you honest.


I would love to hear from posters Ruffian1 and Chad and other trainers/insiders that are familiar with jockey 'culture' and shenanigans and either agree or dispel the notion that all the 'top jocks' are riding the hair off all their mounts because they wouldn't jeopardize their lucrative way of living.

I don't believe trainers or owners who think they see jock shenanigans can just fire every jock on your circuit it's not that easy, you fire a guy here or there and who's left? It's not like there are hundreds of jocks to take their place. If you fire irad, Jose, manny, cancel and a few others, who's left? Taylor rice?

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't believe trainers or owners who think they see jock shenanigans can just fire every jock on your circuit it's not that easy, you fire a guy here or there and who's left? It's not like there are hundreds of jocks to take their place. If you fire irad, Jose, manny, cancel and a few others, who's left? Taylor rice?If something were going on that was as blatantly obvious as you and EMD and some others contend, then you better believe every trainer/owner who puts big-time money and big-time effort into getting these horses ready...would fire these guys in a heartbeat.

So...either they are doing stuff that is SO SUBTLE that not even experienced horsemen take notice....OR...those shouting fire have it wrong most of the time.

[Stillriledup]

If something were going on that was as blatantly obvious as you and EMD and some others contend, then you better believe every trainer/owner who puts big-time money and big-time effort into getting these horses ready...would fire these guys in a heartbeat.

So...either they are doing stuff that is SO SUBTLE that not even experienced horsemen take notice....OR...those shouting fire have it wrong most of the time.

I don't contend anything, what EMD says are his own words, nothing I've ever said here indicates I think 'every race is fixed' or even that there's any fixing at all. I have a good relationship here w EMD but that's about as far as it goes.

No trainer or owner is firing a top jock if they can get them, even if they think the top jock is stiffing a few here or there. A top jock who theoretically stiffs 5 pct of his mounts isn't getting fired, it's hard to acquire the services of top jocks, nobody's getting fired and replaced by the '9th leading rider' that's just not how it works.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't contend anything, what EMD says are his own words, nothing I've ever said here indicates I think 'every race is fixed' or even that there's any fixing at all. I have a good relationship here w EMD but that's about as far as it goes.

No trainer or owner is firing a top jock if they can get them, even if they think the top jock is stiffing a few here or there. A top jock who theoretically stiffs 5 pct of his mounts isn't getting fired, it's hard to acquire the services of top jocks, nobody's getting fired and replaced by the '9th leading rider' that's just not how it works.Don't play games.

The two that EMD writes about the most are consistently banking multiple MILLIONS in purse money EACH...every meet it seems at NYRA...how are they some of the most crooked around (according to EMD) and yet trainers seem to be blind to this? $8,000,000 in purse money between them at Aqueduct thus far...$8,000,000 in purse money between them at Saratoga alone in 2015.

[no breathalyzer]

If something were going on that was as blatantly obvious as you and EMD and some others contend, then you better believe every trainer/owner who puts big-time money and big-time effort into getting these horses ready...would fire these guys in a heartbeat.

So...either they are doing stuff that is SO SUBTLE that not even experienced horsemen take notice....OR...those shouting fire have it wrong most of the time.


Maybe they do.. how do you prove it? As long as they all eating good why fuss about it.... I think its naive to think they don't know among st themselves which horse or horses that are not gonna fire on a particular day ect.... or

[Lemon Drop Husker]

This is like the Jelly of the Month thread. The thread that just keeps on giving. :)

[Stillriledup]

Don't play games.

The two that EMD writes about the most are consistently banking multiple MILLIONS in purse money EACH...every meet it seems at NYRA...how are they some of the most crooked around (according to EMD) and yet trainers seem to be blind to this? $8,000,000 in purse money between them at Aqueduct thus far...$8,000,000 in purse money between them at Saratoga alone in 2015.

You think if they weren't blind to it they would do what? Replace Ortiz with Taylor rice? What do you suggest the biggest barns do if they think all the top guys are messing around?

[EMD4ME]

Maybe they do.. how do you prove it? As long as they all eating good why fuss about it.... I think its naive to think they don't know among st themselves which horse or horses that are not gonna fire on a particular day ect.... or

Agreed.

In addition, it's when you have 1 lone speed that is obvious to the world who gets wrangled back out of a race and then is given the 'HEY LOOK I'm RIDING WITH A HARD DRIVE THE LATTER PART OF THE RACE TO MAKE IT LOOK GOOD' ride OR the the common: 5 speeds in 1 race & only 1 goes OR you watch a rider wrangle a horse completely out of the race blatanly for no reason that makes my ethicial juices come out and I fire.

A race is like a jigsaw puzzle. Not exactly but close to it. You can tell in 5 strides many times what the boys are lining up (in a race that has a predetermined result) . It's those SUBTLE (but completely obvious to the sharp eye) set ups that piss me off.

All this exludes the piss poor rides, stumbles at the gate etc. Those are just part of the game.

How about an excercise everyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIs5O2WsimQ

Count the number of horses that were ridden hard from the gate for position.

Count the number of horses that were ridden hard mid race to make an extended move.

Count the number of horses that were spread across the track outside the 3/16's pole.

THIS IS WHAT RACING SHOULD LOOK LIKE.

THIS IS WHAT A COMMON HONESTLY (no predetermined result) RUN RACE LOOKS LIKE.

Unfortunately, the majority of races don't look like this.

The majority of races are Yonkers line ups.

You ever wonder why most races have dawdling paces?

It's a whole lot easier to move the chess pieces around for a desired result when the game moves extra slow.

Move the game speed up and chaos could ensue, bringing in a result which is not so controllable.

[EMD4ME]

You think if they weren't blind to it they would do what? Replace Ortiz with Taylor rice? What do you suggest the biggest barns do if they think all the top guys are messing around?

All of this peculiar riding started right after Ramon was taken out. God, I wish he was still around.

I studied that man like a college kid studies for an SAT.

I don't recall a single curious RIDE EVER and I MEAN EVER by Ramon Dominguez.

Unfortunately with him out and a new guard coming in that is super close to eachother, you have 1) at least a terrible perception and 2) much worse.

There just aren't many riders that a barn can go to and say: They have nothing to do with the 'gang'.

[Stillriledup]

All of this peculiar riding started right after Ramon was taken out. God, I wish he was still around.

I studied that man like a college kid studies for an SAT.

I don't recall a single curious RIDE EVER and I MEAN EVER by Ramon Dominguez.

Unfortunately with him out and a new guard coming in that is super close to eachother, you have 1) at least a terrible perception and 2) much worse.

There just aren't many riders that a barn can go to and say: They have nothing to do with the 'gang'.

Remember the julissa Laredo wins?

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1398121&postcount=16

[EMD4ME]

Don't play games.

The two that EMD writes about the most are consistently banking multiple MILLIONS in purse money EACH...every meet it seems at NYRA...how are they some of the most crooked around (according to EMD) and yet trainers seem to be blind to this? $8,000,000 in purse money between them at Aqueduct thus far...$8,000,000 in purse money between them at Saratoga alone in 2015.

You come to work and suddenly 2 guys are all the rage. You try and beat them (from a performance perspective) but can't. You're part of the old guard and don't want to eat nothing. You want to keep making what you can. What do you do?

From watching thousands of replays and hearing tons of things on track. It's not 2. It's at least 5, more than likely 7 and I can see it being 9.

[EMD4ME]

Remember the julissa Laredo wins?

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1398121&postcount=16


They still happen today. Except, instead of julissa it's (pick any name here) wiring while others mimic professional wrestlers and practice choke holds for 48 seconds.

[Stillriledup]

They still happen today. Except, instead of julissa it's (pick any name here) wiring while others mimic professional wrestlers and practice choke holds for 48 seconds.

See post 5, even in 2013 this stuff was happening with nobody doing a thing about it.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107691&highlight=Charlestown

[Lemon Drop Husker]

They still happen today. Except, instead of julissa it's (pick any name here) wiring while others mimic professional wrestlers and practice choke holds for 48 seconds.

EMD, I'm dead serious.

You should post a Top 10 or even Top 20 thread of your favorite crappy jockey ride sayings. I think it would be quite hilarious in a good manner that we all could enjoy and even add our own quips or frustration.

[ultracapper]

I don't contend anything, what EMD says are his own words, nothing I've ever said here indicates I think 'every race is fixed' or even that there's any fixing at all. I have a good relationship here w EMD but that's about as far as it goes.

No trainer or owner is firing a top jock if they can get them, even if they think the top jock is stiffing a few here or there. A top jock who theoretically stiffs 5 pct of his mounts isn't getting fired, it's hard to acquire the services of top jocks, nobody's getting fired and replaced by the '9th leading rider' that's just not how it works.

You can't be a top jock and stiff 5% of your mounts. Winning mounts are tough enough to come by, and then go out and make yourself a 12% winning jock instead of a 17% winning jock. Of course you're only stiffing those that could win. Who'd stiff a horse that doesn't have a chance anyhow. No stiffing needed.

[EMD4ME]

EMD, I'm dead serious.

You should post a Top 10 or even Top 20 thread of your favorite crappy jockey ride sayings. I think it would be quite hilarious in a good manner that we all could enjoy and even add our own quips or frustration.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

LDH I meant ask you. I see that North Dakota has $600,000,000 in ADW wagering forecasted for this fiscal year ending June 30,2016. They said 1% is from in state and 99% out of state.

I thought of you as I don't think there is another hardcore player in all of ND :lol: :ThmbUp:

You bet $6,000,000???!!!!!!



As far as that thread....A lot of it is not PC. Most is. I have to run to a dinner but I'll try and amass the list (of PC ones) when I get back!

[PaceAdvantage]

You think if they weren't blind to it they would do what? Replace Ortiz with Taylor rice? What do you suggest the biggest barns do if they think all the top guys are messing around?They would find some other alternative than to reward such behavior...that much I can tell you.

[Stillriledup]

You can't be a top jock and stiff 5% of your mounts. Winning mounts are tough enough to come by, and then go out and make yourself a 12% winning jock instead of a 17% winning jock. Of course you're only stiffing those that could win. Who'd stiff a horse that doesn't have a chance anyhow. No stiffing needed.

I agree that it's prob less than 5 pct. your 12 to 17 pct isn't correct math wise unless you assume all 5 stiffs out of 100 would have win. A 17 pct jock would be stiffing less than one theoretical winner, so his 17 pct wouldn't go down to 12, it would probably go to 16.3 or something like that.

[EMD4ME]

You can't be a top jock and stiff 5% of your mounts. Winning mounts are tough enough to come by, and then go out and make yourself a 12% winning jock instead of a 17% winning jock. Of course you're only stiffing those that could win. Who'd stiff a horse that doesn't have a chance anyhow. No stiffing needed.

Yes you can.

Why? Because you will get 5% more wins back on horses that shouldn't win when the better horses are stiffed in other races.


We all know chaos many times brings in a winner who was no where the best horse in a race.

I'm cool with those races. For ex: Surprising 4 horse duel (not expected) or a middle mover hurts many horse's chances and a suck up plodder gets a perfect set up. 3 horses off slow at gate. Leader bolts knocking out 2 contenders on the 1st turn etc.

It's the organized chaos that irks the crap out of me.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

LDH I meant ask you. I see that North Dakota has $600,000,000 in ADW wagering forecasted for this fiscal year ending June 30,2016. They said 1% is from in state and 99% out of state.

I thought of you as I don't think there is another hardcore player in all of ND :lol: :ThmbUp:

You bet $6,000,000???!!!!!!



As far as that thread....A lot of it is not PC. Most is. I have to run to a dinner but I'll try and amass the list (of PC ones) when I get back!

Hmmm...., I don't live in North Dakota. I live in Nebraska.

While I know that may be all the same for you "coasters" that couldn't find either on a map, it is quite different. :cool:

[Stillriledup]

They would find some other alternative than to reward such behavior...that much I can tell you.

I don't think so, they would just accept the occasional stiff and keep trying to get the best rider available at the time. Also keep in mind that if a top jock occasionally stuffs, he will also be occasionally rewarded when someone else stiffs, it all ends up evening out in the end and what you're left with is you, as a trainer, owe it to your owner to get the best jock available. That's how it works.

[EMD4ME]

Hmmm...., I don't live in North Dakota. I live in Nebraska.

While I know that may be all the same for you "coasters" that couldn't find either on a map, it is quite different. :cool:


OOPS SORRY!!!!! :blush:

[EMD4ME]

I don't think so, they would just accept the occasional stiff and keep trying to get the best rider available at the time. Also keep in mind that if a top jock occasionally stuffs, he will also be occasionally rewarded when someone else stiffs, it all ends up evening out in the end and what you're left with is you, as a trainer, owe it to your owner to get the best jock available. That's how it works.

I would venture to say that some trainers, at the least, are just not that good at watching a race. I found this thought to be impossible to be true until I watched their reactions/thoughts during a race.

So in turn, I don't have the utmost confidence in a trainer actually seeing a slightly poor trip in front of their eyes.

BTW, is there a reason that RTN and other ADW's provide an HD replay of the pan BUT not of the head on?

Isn't it as simple as recording the head on (in HD) as it shows?

[PaceAdvantage]

Are you implying the conspiracy runs so deep as to affect whether or not HD head-on replays are available to you?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

OOPS SORRY!!!!! :blush:

No offense taken.

When I travel below the Mason-Dixon line I'm called a Canadian.

When I travel East to SE, I get nothing but blank stares and "what is it that you do tbere for fun?".

When I travel to Cali, it is like "OK, cool. What do you do there for fun?"

When I travel to the NW, it is much h more similar to home. People don't care where you are from, they just care about who you are and what you are. No BS.

I do love me some Louisiana tbough. Great people. Enjoy it every time I go there. And I am allergic to shellfish to boot. :bang:

[EMD4ME]

Are you implying the conspiracy runs so deep as to affect whether or not HD head-on replays are available to you?

No. It was a by the way, not part of the conversation.

I really want to know. I pay good money for HD replays but the head on is never available in HD. Very frustrating.

I only get to see an HD head on, live.

[NorCalGreg]

No offense taken.

When I travel below the Mason-Dixon line I'm called a Canadian.

When I travel East to SE, I get nothing but blank stares and "what is it that you do tbere for fun?".

When I travel to Cali, it is like "OK, cool. What do you do there for fun?"

When I travel to the NW, it is much h more similar to home. People don't care where you are from, they just care about who you are and what you are. No BS.

I do love me some Louisiana tbough. Great people. Enjoy it every time I go there. And I am allergic to shellfish to boot. :bang:

It could be you give a certain "back up" vibe.....as the reason for the blank stares.

In Cali...and every other place I've been--"What do you do for fun there?" is just a conversation starter, not a personal judgement.

Next time you're asked that question...just tell them you're a horse player.

THEN you'll get the blank stares, and personal judgements :D

[sammy the sage]

I would venture to say that some trainers, at the least, are just not that good at watching a race. I found this thought to be impossible to be true until I watched their reactions/thoughts during a race.

So in turn, I don't have the utmost confidence in a trainer actually seeing a slightly poor trip in front of their eyes.

BTW, is there a reason that RTN and other ADW's provide an HD replay of the pan BUT not of the head on?

Isn't it as simple as recording the head on (in HD) as it shows?

You think some trainer(s) are bad...what about some stewards...how they even ...nah that's another thread...but SOME of the poster(s) takes here on a race...pure GOLD...in comic sorta way... ;)

[EMD4ME]

You think some trainer(s) are bad...what about some stewards...how they even ...nah that's another thread...but SOME of the poster(s) takes here on a race...pure GOLD...in comic sorta way... ;)


Oh come on, don't tease, point out specifics please :D

[PaceAdvantage]

but SOME of the poster(s) takes here on a race...pure GOLD...in comic sorta way... ;)No argument there...you're 100% right about that.

[Stillriledup]

http://www.pricehorsecentral.com/?p=16321

Could this be true? We have found our place plunger?

[EMD4ME]

http://www.pricehorsecentral.com/?p=16321

Could this be true? We have found our place plunger?

Excellent research and bump SRU!

Poor guy. He lost every dollar he had in the bank....Ouch...

One small footnote. It wasn't Irad who gave Constellation , Constipation. It was his brother in crime, Jose.

Nevertheless, feel bad for the guy. Wish he had more money in the bank ! We can use some rich people in the pools which listen to TVG with their entire life savings on the line!

[pandy]

Excellent research and bump SRU!

Poor guy. He lost every dollar he had in the bank....Ouch...

One small footnote. It wasn't Irad who gave Constellation , Constipation. It was his brother in crime, Jose.

Nevertheless, feel bad for the guy. Wish he had more money in the bank ! We can use some rich people in the pools which listen to TVG with their entire life savings on the line!


There's no way this story is true as reported on this blog.

[EMD4ME]

There's no way this story is true as reported on this blog.

Why do you say that?

[cj]

Why do you say that?

No way somebody that dumb could have 90k socked away.

[pandy]

No way somebody that dumb could have 90k socked away.


Well put.

[Capper Al]

Hopefully, it wasn't something like his company's payroll.

For me, there is only one way to beat the game. And that is by small bets rolling up in your gambling fund. It takes a while, but keeps one in the game without a disaster occurring.

[Kash$]

Why do you say that?

Wheteher the story is true no one knows..

But this is true

Constellation is trained by Steve Asmussen. If this race had been conducted at the HKJC a complete and concise follow up on the runners would be made. This is why the lack of complete transparency in racing in the United States is so badly needed.

Heck im still waiting for the "hes lame story"

[EMD4ME]

No way somebody that dumb could have 90k socked away.

I had a good friend who had 260k. Lost it all on the ponies. Got it from an inheritance. You never know...

[EMD4ME]

[QUOTE=EMD4ME]Why do you say that?[/QUOTE

Wheteher the story is true no one knows..

But this is true

Constellation is trained by Steve Asmussen. If this race had been conducted at the HKJC a complete and concise follow up on the runners would be made. This is why the lack of complete transparency in racing in the United States is so badly needed.

Heck im still waiting for the "hes lame story"

Me too. Googled the name. Checked DRF. Nothing.

[Kash$]

[QUOTE=Kash$]

Me too. Googled the name. Checked DRF. Nothing.

Or the famous "he seemed off"... :lol: Inmates running the asylum

[no breathalyzer]

I had a good friend who had 260k. Lost it all on the ponies. Got it from an inheritance. You never know...

how is that even possible.. i will never fathom this.... with that kind of $$ you can spreed and blast with so much coverage.. should be impossible.. that's why bridge jumpers are MORONS.. if you had half a brain and can cap even at a c+ level there are so many better ways to make stress free $ then slamming a fortune to show on a horse

[EMD4ME]

how is that even possible.. i will never fathom this.... with that kind of $$ you can spreed and blast with so much coverage.. should be impossible.. that's why bridge jumpers are MORONS.. if you had half a brain and can cap even at a c+ level there are so many better ways to make stress free $ then slamming a fortune to show on a horse

Hes a nice guy just supremely stupid. If I told you how he bets and how he thinks, you wouldn't believe me.

[no breathalyzer]

Hes a nice guy just supremely stupid. If I told you how he bets and how he thinks, you wouldn't believe me.

well don't leave me hanging ... go ahead and give some examples i would like to hear them

[EMD4ME]

well don't leave me hanging ... go ahead and give some examples i would like to hear them

I wont leave you hanging. Give me till 8 or so. Off to medical procedure for mother.

[EMD4ME]

well don't leave me hanging ... go ahead and give some examples i would like to hear them

He's a complete DUMBASS. Here are some examples:

Because he is lazy (never takes a VISUAL note, which to me is #1 in all handicapping. He doesn't understand speed figs, form cycle, betting patterns, stress full trips, perfect trips, trainer manipulation, fixed races, jockey impact etc.)he looks for shortcuts.

He boxes 9 10 11 because once he watched a race where outside posts ran 123.

At 7F on the dirt, he boxes the outside 3 or 4 PP's in ex/tri/sups because someone ONCE told him that the outside PPs are good at 7F.

He plays straight consecutive numbers because ONCE they came out in a race.

He rarely if EVER plays Horizontals, as he would prefer to lose in 1 race, not 2/3/4/5/6.

Paul Cornman once said a 48 workout is solid SOOOOO he bets every horse who has a 48 workout since their last race.

He focuses on sprints because they only have 1 turn. Nevermind that he is the worst horseplayer on earth, 6F is the angle for him.

He never ever bets a horse to win, I mean ever. Why? Because handicapping is foreign to him. Confidence? HAAAAAAA ! Doesn't exist.

If he likes the 5. He will bet ALL 5 in exactas. As the 5 wins, he screams : I'm jinxed as his horse wins. I swear, he is the dumbest horseplayer ever created.

He will always bet all/1 as the 1 always has a chance to run 2nd. (Despite it being a 7F sprint LOL).

Like I said, he is a true DUMBASS stupid F***.

Oh.....forgot.....

He will spread every race, says: I'm covering....


I explained to him: Dumbass....I'm alive for 10K, closing to 3 of 7 in the pick 5. I am allowed to bet a horse or two TO WIN, to COVER my expected pick 5 score. I explain to him, that you don't have a house (you don't have an expected score to cover) to INSURE, WTF are you covering for???????

He says: I just want to hit the race.


I see him "hit" a race.....He bet $300, collected $200 and doesn't understand that he lost the race. Says : I bailed the race out.

I BEG him to take the $2000 that he will lose on a given day AND bet it all on one horse or one sequence.


He will say NO, proceed to nitpick a pick 4 down to $64, lose it by cutting down a ticket from $72 to $64 and then NOT see how stupid he is as his $8 savings costs him $5000. Meanwhile, he will chase the $72 the rest of the day AND lose $2000 for the day.


Like I said, he is the dumbest player in the history of horse racing.

[Stillriledup]

He's a complete DUMBASS. Here are some examples:

Because he is lazy (never takes a VISUAL note, which to me is #1 in all handicapping. He doesn't understand speed figs, form cycle, betting patterns, stress full trips, perfect trips, trainer manipulation, fixed races, jockey impact etc.)he looks for shortcuts.

He boxes 9 10 11 because once he watched a race where outside posts ran 123.

At 7F on the dirt, he boxes the outside 3 or 4 PP's in ex/tri/sups because someone ONCE told him that the outside PPs are good at 7F.

He plays straight consecutive numbers because ONCE they came out in a race.

He rarely if EVER plays Horizontals, as he would prefer to lose in 1 race, not 2/3/4/5/6.

Paul Cornman once said a 48 workout is solid SOOOOO he bets every horse who has a 48 workout since their last race.

He focuses on sprints because they only have 1 turn. Nevermind that he is the worst horseplayer on earth, 6F is the angle for him.

He never ever bets a horse to win, I mean ever. Why? Because handicapping is foreign to him. Confidence? HAAAAAAA ! Doesn't exist.

If he likes the 5. He will bet ALL 5 in exactas. As the 5 wins, he screams : I'm jinxed as his horse wins. I swear, he is the dumbest horseplayer ever created.

He will always bet all/1 as the 1 always has a chance to run 2nd. (Despite it being a 7F sprint LOL).

Like I said, he is a true DUMBASS stupid F***.

Oh.....forgot.....

He will spread every race, says: I'm covering....


I explained to him: Dumbass....I'm alive for 10K, closing to 3 of 7 in the pick 5. I am allowed to bet a horse or two TO WIN, to COVER my expected pick 5 score. I explain to him, that you don't have a house (you don't have an expected score to cover) to INSURE, WTF are you covering for???????

He says: I just want to hit the race.


I see him "hit" a race.....He bet $300, collected $200 and doesn't understand that he lost the race. Says : I bailed the race out.

I BEG him to take the $2000 that he will lose on a given day AND bet it all on one horse or one sequence.


He will say NO, proceed to nitpick a pick 4 down to $64, lose it by cutting down a ticket from $72 to $64 and then NOT see how stupid he is as his $8 savings costs him $5000. Meanwhile, he will chase the $72 the rest of the day AND lose $2000 for the day.


Like I said, he is the dumbest player in the history of horse racing.

I actually know(of) this guy you're talking about!!! I have him on video too!

kCd4tW3gD_c

[EMD4ME]

I actually know(of) this guy you're talking about!!! I have him on video too!

kCd4tW3gD_c

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Shame of it is, he could've taken that money, invested it into some tough pick 5 sequences and leveraged his bankroll to out invest his competition.

Now he's betting $1 box exactas hoping for 2 bombs to connect. Sad....

[EMD4ME]

Any updates on this horse? Any articles anywhere? I keep checking and checking and find nothing.

[Kash$]

Any updates on this horse? Any articles anywhere? I keep checking and checking and find nothing.

According to the experts he "seemed off" drifting midstretch badly...No update..likely see the horse at Saratoga...

[EMD4ME]

According to the experts he "seemed off" drifting midstretch badly...No update..likely see the horse at Saratoga...

I found 1 interesting stat.....

Asmussen with Jose Ortiz since Jan 15, 2016. 0 for 11 on the Inner. Odds of horses Jose somehow couldn't win with:

1/9
9/5
2/1
2/1
5/2
7/2
4/1
5/1
8/1
9/1
17/1


I believe Bello made the comment as well. Asmussen horses, ridden by Ortiz seemed to run oftly funny...

Asmussen without Jose Mr. Riding champ Ortiz at the recently concluded inner track meet:

5 for 32 ........

Maybe since Mr. Asmussmen was not around, personally for the inner meet, Jose felt a little different about riding his horses ? ;)

[NTamm1215]

Constellation is at WinStar, obviously getting some R&R, which goes a bit of the way towards explaining her poor effort in the Cicada.

[Kash$]

Constellation is at WinStar, obviously getting some R&R, which goes a bit of the way towards explaining her poor effort in the Cicada.

Is there a link/article?
Thanks

[bello]

I found 1 interesting stat.....

Asmussen with Jose Ortiz since Jan 15, 2016. 0 for 11 on the Inner. Odds of horses Jose somehow couldn't win with:

1/9
9/5
2/1
2/1
5/2
7/2
4/1
5/1
8/1
9/1
17/1


I believe Bello made the comment as well. Asmussen horses, ridden by Ortiz seemed to run oftly funny...

Asmussen without Jose Mr. Riding champ Ortiz at the recently concluded inner track meet:

5 for 32 ........

Maybe since Mr. Asmussmen was not around, personally for the inner meet, Jose felt a little different about riding his horses ? ;)

Really need to watch some of these trainers meet to meet. Casse for instance is kicking ass at Keeneland with horses that seemed to be prepped elsewhere. If I recall last year at the Spa Casse had an awful meet and then goes to KY and wins in droves. Some of these Asmussen horses appeared to be getting tightened up and not on GO. Once these horses start showing life at Belmont or KY, take note and fire away.

[Grits]

Is there a link/article?
Thanks

Why not go on NTamm's word instead?

[Kash$]

Why not go on NTamm's word instead?


Ntamm woudnt post unless 100% true,more interested how nothing was written about her poor performance.

[Stillriledup]

Ntamm woudnt post unless 100% true,more interested how nothing was written about her poor performance.
I don't know if the performance was 'poor' she was right there and got beat by what, 2 lengths? Maybe subpar for her 'standard' but she was sorta ok in real life.

[cj]

It was said and posted here the by some knowledgeable people that the horse was trying to get out most of the race. But please, by all means, keep going with the conspiracy theories. Just ignore that the horse was sent to the farm too which would indicate something was amiss with the horse.

[EMD4ME]

Call it a disease but in this industry I do question every thing until its proven/almost proven to be true / false.

I see nothing wrong in asking why 1 singular article was not written a few days/ a week after a 1/9 gets a peculiar ride and finishes off the board. (Reporting on the horse's health)

By asking, I at least got some semblance of an answer (horse is relaxing somewhere) from someone .

[cj]

Call it a disease but in this industry I do question every thing until its proven/almost proven to be true / false.

I see nothing wrong in asking why 1 singular article was not written a few days/ a week after a 1/9 gets a peculiar ride and finishes off the board. (Reporting on the horse's health)

By asking, I at least got some semblance of an answer (horse is relaxing somewhere) from someone .

The answer is that there is no real press in the game.

[Stillriledup]

Constellation is at WinStar, obviously getting some R&R, which goes a bit of the way towards explaining her poor effort in the Cicada.

it doesn't though and the reason is that because she's a valuable horse, they can rest her, so the rest might be due to her value and just being cautious, she's not Lady Ann in friday's 2nd at keeneland who was all over the shop last time but is back in 8 days, if lady ann was worth a ton of money, good chance she's not racing back so quick.

also, we don't know if constellation's rest was planned in advance, who's to say she wasn't going to get a mini vacation regardless of what happened in the race?

[EMD4ME]

Took a rest for 6 or so months, came back to win a Stake at Turf Paralyzed, now running in 1 hour at the SA.

[EasyGoer89]

According to the experts he "seemed off" drifting midstretch badly...No update..likely see the horse at Saratoga...

Interesting.

Straight as a string today.

[no breathalyzer]

for the record i got shutout on a win wadger :ThmbDown: .. i guess i didn't refresh my feed on my adw in time.... horse behind the gate was doing the medicine circles.. which means always live

[EMD4ME]

Interesting.

Straight as a string today.

Jose Ortiz off.......honest angle to follow.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[no breathalyzer]

man im really disappointed i didnt stab at this pick 4 now

[cj]

Let's not get too carried away here. The horse was off for over seven months, then changed barns and wound up on the west coast. Clearly something was amiss to my eyes, unless you think it was all part of a clever ruse (is there any other kind of ruse) to darken the horse's form and cash out at Santa Anita.

(after, of course, a romping win in a prep at TuP where she looked great)

[EMD4ME]

man im really disappointed i didnt stab at this pick 4 now

Cream always rises to the top and the unique rides always come back to be seen for what they are.

I love this thread..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :D :D


Straight as a string :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Medicine Circles :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

$27 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You guys are awesome :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[no breathalyzer]

even tho deleted i still find that to be :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[EMD4ME]

Let's not get too carried away here. The horse was off for over seven months, then changed barns and wound up on the west coast. Clearly something was amiss to my eyes, unless you think it was all part of a clever ruse (is there any other kind of ruse) to darken the horse's form and cash out at Santa Anita.

(after, of course, a romping win in a prep at TuP where she looked great)


Party pooper :ThmbDown: :lol:

I don't think it was a ruse to CASH at Santa Anita CJ.

It was a ruse to CASH AT AQU on MARCH 26th!!!!

[no breathalyzer]

Cream always rises to the top and the unique rides always come back to be seen for what they are.

I love this thread..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :D :D


Straight as a string :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Medicine Circles :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

$27 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You guys are awesome :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

think im wearing a tinfoil cap? go back and watch before the load and tell me he wasn't felling good

[EMD4ME]

WAIT...

Why were NB's :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


And MY :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

DELETED????


Da Hoss can destroy people on here and 2 normal sharp players can't enjoy a frieken laugh.

This place is a joke.

[no breathalyzer]

there is a reason why people wait till the last possible second to bet .. if you believe in doing it or not well thats on you

[EMD4ME]

think im wearing a tinfoil cap? go back and watch before the load and tell me he wasn't felling good

WAIT.....Buddy, I wasn't laughing at you!

I was laughing WITH YOU!!!

I saw the "on toes" medicine circles. I wasn't being sarcastic. I love you guys !

You see the forest behind the trees.

[cj]

Party pooper :ThmbDown: :lol:

I don't think it was a ruse to CASH at Santa Anita CJ.

It was a ruse to CASH AT AQU on MARCH 26th!!!!


I just always like using "clever ruse".

No offense guys, but I ALWAYS delete emoticon only posts and USUALLY most posts by cratos (MIA). It is kind of my calling card here, nothing personal.

[ReplayRandall]

Flores was scheduled to ride this piece, Prat got the pick-up mount here and got the job done....:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[no breathalyzer]

WAIT.....Buddy, I wasn't laughing at you!

I was laughing WITH YOU!!!

I saw the "on toes" medicine circles. I wasn't being sarcastic. I love you guys !

You see the forest behind the trees.

:) thought so just making sure

[EMD4ME]

I just always like using "clever ruse".

No offense guys, but I ALWAYS delete emoticon only posts and USUALLY most posts by cratos (MIA). It is kind of my calling card here, nothing personal.

Ok Cool. No harm no foul but I'm still laughing thinking about the Jose Ortiz apologists.


I know what my eyes see.

[EMD4ME]

:) thought so just making sure

I screwed up quoting you (not getting p4 in). My bad buddy.

I meant my words, strictly, as a MASSIVELY AWESOME COMPLIMENT!

[EMD4ME]

These endless, and baseless, claims about jockey cheating do nobody any good, and frankly, they have no basis in fact.

On Constellation, forget what I think....but I watched the race with Travis Stone and Maggie Wolfendale. Now, being that people on this board seem to universally agree that Maggie knows what she is talking about when looking at horses, I am guessing that her opinion here also probably carries some weight. Well, Travis saw from the reins that Constellation was getting out pretty much immediately, and Maggie said the same. Watching the head-on later confirmed this.

Obviously something was bothering Constellation. Hopefully it's not serious. Do yourselves a favor, and get off the grassy knoll. It doesn't do you or anyone any good.


Nope, does no good :rolleyes: . Only $27 WINNERS :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Dahoss9698]

Wouldn't the 7 month break be a pretty good reason for the poor performance?

[no breathalyzer]

Joel Rosario is boss

[EMD4ME]

Joel Rosario is boss

He is the epitome of an enigma. When "on" he's really good. When "off" he is Can't Desormeaux.

[EasyGoer89]

Joel Rosario is boss

Bejarano made him look good by not getting out of the gate, I guess he (RB) hasn't been watching the early races, riding with no clue.

[EMD4ME]

Bejarano made him look good by not getting out of the gate, I guess he (RB) hasn't been watching the early races, riding with no clue.

That entire race change when the 4 didn't get position on the 2, correct and sharp post......

2 got pocket, everyone else chased wider in the 21 and change Q2, had the best spot and was the closer. Race over after the 4 didn't clear him AND the 5&7 dueled.

[Waquoit]

Constellation won a G1 today (12/26) and made my Pick 4. I wonder how many XB points I'm going to get?

[SuperPickle]

Bejarano made him look good by not getting out of the gate, I guess he (RB) hasn't been watching the early races, riding with no clue.

Noooo...

Once Rosario put that horse in the second tier it was irrelevant what Bejarano did. The sole advantage Ten Blessings had was on paper he was supposed to get first run on the speed ahead of Rosario and Mor Spirit. Rosario eliminated the advantage. Hence brilliant ride.

Even if Ten Blessings is next to Rosario in the second tier he's not out running him to the wire. At the end of the day it's the horse who finished 2nd in the BC sprint versus a horse coming out on a 1X. He's not running him down.

The real story is Indian Blessing was insanely overbet in that field.

[EasyGoer89]

Noooo...

Once Rosario put that horse in the second tier it was irrelevant what Bejarano did. The sole advantage Ten Blessings had was on paper he was supposed to get first run on the speed ahead of Rosario and Mor Spirit. Rosario eliminated the advantage. Hence brilliant ride.

Even if Ten Blessings is next to Rosario in the second tier he's not out running him to the wire. At the end of the day it's the horse who finished 2nd in the BC sprint versus a horse coming out on a 1X. He's not running him down.

The real story is Indian Blessing was insanely overbet in that field.

Rosario didn't eliminate that advantage, it was bejarano who had no urgency to get around him. That was the difference.

[Dahoss9698]

Noooo...

Once Rosario put that horse in the second tier it was irrelevant what Bejarano did. The sole advantage Ten Blessings had was on paper he was supposed to get first run on the speed ahead of Rosario and Mor Spirit. Rosario eliminated the advantage. Hence brilliant ride.

Even if Ten Blessings is next to Rosario in the second tier he's not out running him to the wire. At the end of the day it's the horse who finished 2nd in the BC sprint versus a horse coming out on a 1X. He's not running him down.

The real story is Indian Blessing was insanely overbet in that field.
Yeah I was beginning to wonder if I was watching a different race. Rosario was the difference maker. He allowed his horse to secure that beautiful trip he got, because he drew closer to the rail than Ten Blessings and they did not go super fast during the first quarter. That's why you saw that cluster of horses right behind the 2 leaders.

Had Rosario taken back even the slightest, Sharp Azteca wins by open lengths. Not exactly sure how Bejarano was supposed to "get around him" as SRU so astutely opined, as they were head to head through the first 1/8 and there was only about a length and a half or so separating the leaders and the 2nd group. Not to mention as you could plainly see, Mind Your Biscuits seemed to be traveling much better than Indian Blessing at every point of the race. Bejarano was forced to scrub IB a bit at about the 1/2 mile pole because MYB started picking up the leaders and they were having a harder time picking them up.

I was kind of surprised at the late bump MYB got. He was 2-1 or close to it up until very late.

[Dahoss9698]

I was hoping all of the other posters wouldn't be scared off by the EMD Troll Clique, because what happened with Constellation is a great example of why reading through the lines could be beneficial.

Of course they didn't stiff this horse in March. Something went amiss, as she bore out early and late. She was then on the sidelines for 8 months. Do healthy 3 year old fillies usually take the biggest part of the year off? Hollendorfer has her back to her best form, which is no real surprise.

But the wacky conspiracies by two trolls who get off by seeing who can say the dumbest thing drowns out the truth and marginalizes serious issues like the one we saw at LAD earlier this year.

[PaceAdvantage]

WAIT...

Why were NB's :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


And MY :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

DELETED????


Da Hoss can destroy people on here and 2 normal sharp players can't enjoy a frieken laugh.

This place is a joke.Posts with nothing but emoticons are routinely deleted around here. But consider it a personal attack on you and NB...wouldn't want that chip on your shoulder to become dislodged anytime soon.

And this place might be a joke, but nobody has a gun to your head.

[EMD4ME]

Posts with nothing but emoticons are routinely deleted around here. But consider it a personal attack on you and NB...wouldn't want that chip on your shoulder to become dislodged anytime soon.

And this place might be a joke, but nobody has a gun to your head.

I've posted many times with just :lol: .

They weren't deleted. That was the first.

[PaceAdvantage]

I've posted many times with just :lol: .

They weren't deleted. That was the first.Then you got lucky. :lol:

[lamboguy]

when Assmussen had the filly in New York i thought she was always getting out as well. the day with the 4 horse field she was getting out more.

Assmussen uses these shoes on all his horse and i call them cowboy boots. most of the time those shoes make no difference. don't get me wrong for certain horses they help, but for others they hurt. i highly suspect that Hollendorffer used conventional shoes on that champion filly.

[SuperPickle]

Yeah I was beginning to wonder if I was watching a different race. Rosario was the difference maker. He allowed his horse to secure that beautiful trip he got, because he drew closer to the rail than Ten Blessings and they did not go super fast during the first quarter. That's why you saw that cluster of horses right behind the 2 leaders.

Had Rosario taken back even the slightest, Sharp Azteca wins by open lengths. Not exactly sure how Bejarano was supposed to "get around him" as SRU so astutely opined, as they were head to head through the first 1/8 and there was only about a length and a half or so separating the leaders and the 2nd group. Not to mention as you could plainly see, Mind Your Biscuits seemed to be traveling much better than Indian Blessing at every point of the race. Bejarano was forced to scrub IB a bit at about the 1/2 mile pole because MYB started picking up the leaders and they were having a harder time picking them up.

I was kind of surprised at the late bump MYB got. He was 2-1 or close to it up until very late.

According to SRU Bejerano was supposed to do something.

I mean this is kind of basic pace handicapping. The horse stretching out after running against better horses (MYB) showed more speed and the horse moving from a N1X to a Grade One showed less speed. Just about any pace handicapper would tell you that's a pretty usual occurrence. It's almost a if class affects a horse's pace potential.

But you know something, something jockey's fault.

[EMD4ME]

According to SRU Bejerano was supposed to do something.

I mean this is kind of basic pace handicapping. The horse stretching out after running against better horses (MYB) showed more speed and the horse moving from a N1X to a Grade One showed less speed. Just about any pace handicapper would tell you that's a pretty usual occurrence. It's almost a if class affects a horse's pace potential.

But you know something, something jockey's fault.


You guys should've been defensive backs, you just love to add to the pile after the whistle has been blown and the running back is looking for oxygen on the bottom of the pile. Give it a rest.

TFUS had the race


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Easygoer89 wasn't the only expecting the 4 well ahead of the 2 early.

But what does CJ and TFUS know :rolleyes:

[Lemon Drop Husker]

[/B]


Nope, does no good :rolleyes: . Only $27 WINNERS :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Only thing I saw with the :4: Constellation, was she got claimed by the King and was a filly that could be on a huge improve as a 3YO.

Flavor Flav got the mount, and at 12/1 it was a must play in what I saw was an overrated field against her.

I'm just angry that the :1: or :7: couldn't get up in the 2 hole. :mad:

[Dahoss9698]

Only thing I saw with the :4: Constellation, was she got claimed by the King and was a filly that could be on a huge improve as a 3YO.

Flavor Flav got the mount, and at 12/1 it was a must play in what I saw was an overrated field against her.

I'm just angry that the :1: or :7: couldn't get up in the 2 hole. :mad:
She wasn't claimed

[Dahoss9698]

You guys should've been defensive backs, you just love to add to the pile after the whistle has been blown and the running back is looking for oxygen on the bottom of the pile. Give it a rest.

TFUS had the race


5
7



9
4
6


10


2
8

3


Easygoer89 wasn't the only expecting the 4 well ahead of the 2 early.

But what does CJ and TFUS know :rolleyes:

You guys make 15 page threads playing verbal grab ass, yet can't take 2 posts that argue against your awful opinions? Geez man, grow a pair.

I expected IB to be ahead of MYB as well. That's where Rosario came into the discussion. It helps when you actually follow the discussion and don't just post to post

[Lemon Drop Husker]

She wasn't claimed

Picked her up, claimed, changed trainers; whatever. Changed to a better barn with intentions of bigger and better.

[Dahoss9698]

Picked her up, claimed, changed trainers; whatever. Changed to a better barn with intentions of bigger and better.
Understand your point, just thought it was important to use facts in the discussion

[EMD4ME]

Then you got lucky. :lol:

PA/Moderators, why did you delete my post (right after this one)? I had more than just emoticons in there :D

[EMD4ME]

Does anyone know what race Constellation is pointed to next?

[Racetrack Playa]

I would guess, the Santa Monica , but idk really

[Spalding No!]

Does anyone know what race Constellation is pointed to next?
No workouts since before the La Brea and was not nominated to the La Canada which runs next week and is restricted to 4yos only.

The nominations for the Santa Monica should be due sometime next week (it runs on the 21st), so that will tell the tale.

[EMD4ME]

No workouts since before the La Brea and was not nominated to the La Canada which runs next week and is restricted to 4yos only.

The nominations for the Santa Monica should be due sometime next week (it runs on the 21st), so that will tell the tale.

Thank you Racetrack and Spalding.....

Much appreciated :ThmbUp:

[Spalding No!]

Constellation is indeed nominated to the Santa Monica but still has not recorded a work since the La Brea victory.

http://www.santaanita.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Santa-Monica-PP.pdf