Handicapping by owner??

[cutchemist42]

ASD with their monthly contests has a promotion where if you win and list the reasoning for picking the horses, you get a free dinner and other stuff. Only have been two so far, but the last interested me as he was handicapping by owner.

I had never even thought of this, and wondered if anyone here does it or can speak to it? His reasoning is below:

http://www.assiniboiadowns.com/userfiles/files/525-chuck-whalen.pdf

[EMD4ME]

ASD with their monthly contests has a promotion where if you win and list the reasoning for picking the horses, you get a free dinner and other stuff. Only have been two so far, but the last interested me as he was handicapping by owner.

I had never even thought of this, and wondered if anyone here does it or can speak to it? His reasoning is below:

http://www.assiniboiadowns.com/userfiles/files/525-chuck-whalen.pdf

I do incorporate "ownership" into my handicap when it's feasible.

1) If a trainer takes over a horse, I utlilize formulator to search First Time Trainer with this specific owner. Maybe an owner has been buying some stock in one circuit, shipping them elsewhere and is doing real well. I want to know early.

2) First time starters. I will check and see how this trainer does with this owner with FTS. Some owners might want a quick ROI. Some no.

3) Some trainers win 20%. 40% with 1 owner. 5% with the rest.....Fill in the rest.

Just some examples.

[Stillriledup]

I do incorporate "ownership" into my handicap when it's feasible.

1) If a trainer takes over a horse, I utlilize formulator to search First Time Trainer with this specific owner. Maybe an owner has been buying some stock in one circuit, shipping them elsewhere and is doing real well. I want to know early.

2) First time starters. I will check and see how this trainer does with this owner with FTS. Some owners might want a quick ROI. Some no.

3) Some trainers win 20%. 40% with 1 owner. 5% with the rest.....Fill in the rest.

Just some examples.

Francis C Calabrese and Maggie Moss seem to win '92 pct' no matter who's on the program.

[Capper Al]

I knew a guy that played with handicapping by owner. He could explain it better after the race.

[WoxFan]

Some owners will hassle the trainers to run the horses back quickly as they are costing them $$. Others are patient and willing to allow a horse to get a couple of extra weeks of rest.
Some owners are also not willing to put over the extra $ to get all the vet work they need to be done.

Some owners are delusional: win two races in a row and its time for a stakes race.

[outofthebox]

Michael Dubb and Midwest are two that move up trainer % that i've noticed.

[Grits]

Catalano for Gary and Mary West.

[NorCalGreg]

Catalano for Gary and Mary West.


The only owner/trainer handicapping info I ever saw, was Ed Bain's. Was of no interest unless the ROI, etc...was eye-popping. --(and that was almost exclusively due to small sample size)

[Grits]

The only owner/trainer handicapping info I ever saw, was Ed Bain's. Was of no interest unless the ROI, etc...was eye-popping. --(and that was almost exclusively due to small sample size)

Saturday's race for this duo wasn't eye popping, to say the least, paying only $5.20. Still, this isn't always the case. Odds matter. Possible for exotics if there's a price horse for second, third.

Sorry, don't have a clue who Ed Bain is. A tout? :lol:

[Donttellmeshowme]

Some owners will hassle the trainers to run the horses back quickly as they are costing them $$. Others are patient and willing to allow a horse to get a couple of extra weeks of rest.
Some owners are also not willing to put over the extra $ to get all the vet work they need to be done.

Some owners are delusional: win two races in a row and its time for a stakes race.




Post of the century........

[horses4courses]

Post of the century........

Renews my faith in pari-mutuel wagering ;)

[mountainman]

Probably more often then you realize, the listed owner not only calls shots, but does the training behind the scenes. This more often is the case at racing's lower echelons.

[Clocker]

Sorry, don't have a clue who Ed Bain is. A tout? :lol:

At the risk of jumping to conclusions, no offense, I'm guessing you have been in the game long enough to know Mark Cramer. :p

Ed Bain is/was a handicapper and a writer and a buddy of Cramer. Cramer's publishing company, Altiplano Publications, also published Bain. Altiplano also published Susan Sweeney, who I think (brains don't fail me now) is Bain's wife.

And if you know Cramer's work, you know where those people are coming from.

http://www.altiplanopublications.com/index.html (http://www.altiplanopublications.com/index.html)

[woodbinepmi]

Knew a guy a while back who had a list of about 5 or 6 trainers who had certain owners and if that would show up in the paddock, it was a go. First time he told me about it, I kind of scoffed at him. But, after a while I was very surprised on the results.

[green80]

you must separate owners that are just in it for fun or a hobby from the owners that in in it as a business. A few owners could be trainers or are ex trainers and are in it to make a buck. You will see the same owners successful year after year whereas most come and go. I would factor one of these successful owners as I would a top trainer, some call the shots. Look at the owners earnings per start and you can get an idea of what kind of owner you have.

[Grits]

At the risk of jumping to conclusions, no offense, I'm guessing you have been in the game long enough to know Mark Cramer. :p


I have. And have three of Cramer's books. Thank you, Clocker. ;)

[classhandicapper]

I think trainer/owner combos are worth looking at in some areas.

[ultracapper]

Knew a guy a while back who had a list of about 5 or 6 trainers who had certain owners and if that would show up in the paddock, it was a go. First time he told me about it, I kind of scoffed at him. But, after a while I was very surprised on the results.

Last spring I was tossed up on a race, and as the camera was going through the paddock, I saw the trainer Kathy Walsh in a very smart pant's suit and it looked as if her hair had just been done at the salon 3 hours before. I remember thinking she was PICTURE perfect. She got her picture taken 15 minutes later, and I cashed a ticket at the same time.

[no breathalyzer]

Couple yrs ago at Hawthorne i seen an owner in a full blown suit for a Mdn race on a Thursday (which if you didn't know extremely real at this place) horse won nicely at 11-1

[whodoyoulike]

The last couple of posts can only be appreciated if you're on track and at the paddock.

I can remember when a Marty & Pam Wygod horse was entered and this very nice looking woman (late teens or early twenty's) who I guessed was their daughter would show up always drop dead gorgeous and their horse usually won that race. The Wygod's had a very good stable and always had excellent trainers.

[Milkshaker]

Fred Lipkin on the old-school (early 1990s) between-race handicapping segments at Penn used to be good about dropping in comments about so-and-so owner being in the paddock and wearing a sportcoat. It was good stuff and unique for the era; he didn't overstate the intent of the guy being there all dressed up; you had to sort of "listen between the lines."