Jockeys must ride to the Finishline

[OptionalClaimer]

It's happened for years but lately jocks like Javier Castellano and Joel Rosario haven't been "finishing" their races. What I mean is once they get passed for first or second they just stop riding the horse the last 50-100 yards.
They must realize that we bet trifectas & supers with them.
Edgar Prado, Kent D are famous for just wrapping up a horse once they get passed.

Who are some of the jocks you notice don't finish every race?

[illinoisbred]

Could it be these are just "spent" horses? I don't know. For the past year I've been playing SoCal tracks and I've noticed quite a few riders that back off,even stand up before the wire. Honestly though, I can't say I recall any outside the Kent D. incident this year where finish position was compromised. I wonder in SoCal how much the new "whip rule" plays into this. A jockey can strike his mount 3 times then needs to wait for a response. Up through last week since the rule's inception,there have been approx. 70 rulings going against the jockeys. Drayden Van Dyke was found to be in violation of the rule twice in 1 race. Recently,Gary Stevens was called in before the stewards regarding his winning ride on Kobe's Back in the GR II Palos Verde. I counted 11 strikes,though the 1st 4 or 5 looked to be more "brushings" than strikes. I don't think Gary got fined. Anyways, I do wonder if the riders feel their hands are tied somewhat by the rule.

[ultracapper]

Particularly on a deep closer like Kobe's Back. I would think a jockey's basic instinct of urgency would almost make smacking away in a spot like that impulsive.

[Stillriledup]

Could it be these are just "spent" horses? I don't know. For the past year I've been playing SoCal tracks and I've noticed quite a few riders that back off,even stand up before the wire. Honestly though, I can't say I recall any outside the Kent D. incident this year where finish position was compromised. I wonder in SoCal how much the new "whip rule" plays into this. A jockey can strike his mount 3 times then needs to wait for a response. Up through last week since the rule's inception,there have been approx. 70 rulings going against the jockeys. Drayden Van Dyke was found to be in violation of the rule twice in 1 race. Recently,Gary Stevens was called in before the stewards regarding his winning ride on Kobe's Back in the GR II Palos Verde. I counted 11 strikes,though the 1st 4 or 5 looked to be more "brushings" than strikes. I don't think Gary got fined. Anyways, I do wonder if the riders feel their hands are tied somewhat by the rule.

Whips have nothing to do with the epidemic of jocks forcibly slowing up their mounts before the race is over. Thoroughbreds are mostly all 'spent' at the wire, nobody is asking a jock to beat the tar out of a tiring horse, but don't start pulling the horse up before the wire either.

[Baron Star Gregg]

The jocks are paid by owners not gamblers. The difference between 3rd and 4th place shares of the purse isn't much.

[Stillriledup]

The jocks are paid by owners not gamblers. The difference between 3rd and 4th place shares of the purse isn't much.

There are racing rules. Not all owners want to lose out on board spots, and jocks have been punished for failure to ride out, the rules are the rules, jocks are not allowed to do what they want as long as their owner is happy

[the little guy]

It's happened for years but lately jocks like Javier Castellano and Joel Rosario haven't been "finishing" their races. What I mean is once they get passed for first or second they just stop riding the horse the last 50-100 yards.


A pretty interesting duo to point out. One, Javier, is a very thoughtful rider who frequently comes up with plans, even on cheap horses, to change their styles in productive ways. I can't really recall him giving up on his horses and losing placings. In fact, I had a discussion about this very topic with him just a few minutes after he won the Eclipse this year, where he ( without me even bringing it up ) talked about the importance of riding horses as hard as possible for minor shares of the finish.

The other guy, Joel Rosario, was injured a few weeks ago, and hasn't even been able to do anything "lately" as he hasn't ridden in going on a month.

It completely mitigates fair criticism of riders when people constantly make unfair claims about them.

[the little guy]

The jocks are paid by owners not gamblers. The difference between 3rd and 4th place shares of the purse isn't much.

The owners wouldn't be paid without "gamblers" to fund the purse account.

[thaskalos]

The jocks are paid by owners not gamblers. The difference between 3rd and 4th place shares of the purse isn't much.

That may be true...but, inasmuch as the tracks insist on booking superfecta bets, the fourth-place finish remains of some concern. If the tracks regard the difference between a third and fourth-place finish to be insignificant, then cancel the superfecta...and we'd have no arguments.

[cj]

The owners wouldn't be paid without "gamblers" to fund the purse account.

This used to be true. Now it is just partly true, sadly.

[cj]

A pretty interesting duo to point out. One, Javier, is a very thoughtful rider who frequently comes up with plans, even on cheap horses, to change their styles in productive ways. I can't really recall him giving up on his horses and losing placings. In fact, I had a discussion about this very topic with him just a few minutes after he won the Eclipse this year, where he ( without me even bringing it up ) talked about the importance of riding horses as hard as possible for minor shares of the finish.

The other guy, Joel Rosario, was injured a few weeks ago, and hasn't even been able to do anything "lately" as he hasn't ridden in going on a month.

It completely mitigates fair criticism of riders when people constantly make unfair claims about them.

It is almost like he went out of his way to cite two riders that don't do this.

[v j stauffer]

The jocks are paid by owners not gamblers. The difference between 3rd and 4th place shares of the purse isn't much.

The difference between 3rd and 4th can make the difference of paying your bills and staying in the game.

To many owners it means the world.

[Baron Star Gregg]

The owners wouldn't be paid without "gamblers" to fund the purse account.
Paying a jock is a financial obligation incurred by the owner whether the horse earns a check or not.
For Vic: The difference between the winnings of 3rd or 4th place should not determine whether you can pay your bills or not.

[v j stauffer]

Paying a jock is a financial obligation incurred by the owner whether the horse earns a check or not.
For Vic: The difference between the winnings of 3rd or 4th place should not determine whether you can pay your bills or not.

I agree. But it does. On every circuit large or small. This sport is not played only by Kings. We need every owner we can get. Sometimes even a few thousand will carry the day.

[therussmeister]

The owners wouldn't be paid without "gamblers" to fund the purse account.
Yes, but the gamblers they rely on are the slot players.

[the little guy]

Yes, but the gamblers they rely on are the slot players.

Obviously I get it, but handle still helps fund the purse account, whether slots or not.

[classhandicapper]

Who are some of the jocks you notice don't finish every race?

I never notice this kind of thing unless the same rider costs me a ticket twice in a short period of time. If I cash or I'm not involved, somehow I don't notice or conclude the rider wrapped up on the horse because he felt something funny and was being cautious. ;)

This might be a fun stat to keep track of so we could have actual data, but I'm way too busy with all the other stats I'm tracking.

[EMD4ME]

It's happened for years but lately jocks like Javier Castellano and Joel Rosario haven't been "finishing" their races. What I mean is once they get passed for first or second they just stop riding the horse the last 50-100 yards.
They must realize that we bet trifectas & supers with them.
Edgar Prado, Kent D are famous for just wrapping up a horse once they get passed.

Who are some of the jocks you notice don't finish every race?

Joel Rosario is one of the most consistent finishers that I can remember, never mind a fantastic finisher in this era.

I am not in love with JC but he doesn't seem like a guy who doesn't ride a horse out.

You sure you're naming the right guys?

I am sure there are guys out there that don't ride out all the time but those 2 aren't the ones that come to mind.

Kent D? Yes, the all time leader (in my era). No one is even close to him :lol:

[Mandrake]

Eddie D could teach everyone a lesson on how to finish.

[EMD4ME]

Eddie D could teach everyone a lesson on how to finish.

Please don't misinterpret me confusing Eddie D with D Cohen but where the heck is David Cohen?

I miss that vicious LEFT HAND WHIP with strong right hand pump, while HIS NECK snaps back and forth in the lane.

[Mandrake]

He was hurt, he has I think 2 kids with Maria Remidio from Parx / Penn, not married yet, I think. She's the earner at the moment.

[EMD4ME]

He was hurt, he has I think 2 kids with Maria Remidio from Parx / Penn, not married yet, I think. She's the earner at the moment.

Maria had a nice win in Dec at AQU. Gave a good ride.

How hurt is he? Poor guy. I liked him.

I loved it when AQU inner was Ramon at 35%, DC at 20% and the scrubs.

I'm sure you know why I feel that way.

[Mandrake]

Come to think of it he was on the hard knocking Jacobson horse who broke down. Don't know if he rode after that. I forget the horse's name also. He took the plunge and married Maria. He knows the scoop.

[Tall One]

Eddie D could teach everyone a lesson on how to finish.


Hand riding while the rest are rat-tat-tat-tat with a right hand whip. There'll never be another rider like Eddie Delahoussaye, IMO.

[EMD4ME]

Hand riding while the rest are rat-tat-tat-tat with a right hand whip. There'll never be another rider like Eddie Delahoussaye, IMO.

GOD, I DETEST THAT RIGHT HAND WHIP. It's all for the camera.

[Mandrake]

Saginaw is the horse I was thinking of. On the other hand when Eddie D and Graig Perret were at Monmouth it was exacta city. That's when Monmouth was a track with a real jockey colony.

[EMD4ME]

Saginaw is the horse I was thinking of. On the other hand when Eddie D and Graig Perret were at Monmouth it was exacta city. That's when Monmouth was a track with a real jockey colony.


I remember watching Julie and Joe and Herb jumping in the pool as I hung out on the 3rd floor. Bob Weems and his echo.....

They're off, they're off, they're off, they're off......

The 5th race, the 5th race, an exacta race, an exacta race, at 5 and one half, at 5 and one half, furlongs, furlongs.....


Ah the good ol days.....

[Mandrake]

How they made Winning Colors a favorite over Risen's Star in the Belmont is why we are all in this game. If Star was ready for the derby then maybe Eddie D would have his tripe crown. AP Indy, Gato del Sol, Sonny's Halo, The Bart. Not bad. Seems to me the old days were much more jockey days, everyone had their favorites, then these days are. Today it's trainer days. Maybe I'm getting too old.

[Mandrake]

I remember watching Julie and Joe and Herb jumping in the pool as I hung out on the 3rd floor. Bob Weems and his echo.....

They're off, they're off, they're off, they're off......

The 5th race, the 5th race, an exacta race, an exacta race, at 5 and one half, at 5 and one half, furlongs, furlongs.....


Ah the good ol days.....

Going back before Antley and Krone. Jacinto Vasquez and Jorge Velasquez actually started at Monmouth. That was before my time, even.

Walter Blum
Don Brumfield
Mickey Solomone
Vince Bracciale
Graig Perret
Eddie D.
James Edwards

More my time.

[Tall One]

GOD, I DETEST THAT RIGHT HAND WHIP. It's all for the camera.


Well, in this situation, I can think of a couple. One, it was his style...couple others, it was situational..

Chris McCarron. Watch Alysheba's Derby, now that's a right handed whip. Mikey Smith...his ride on Giacamo in the Derby tells me he did not do it for the camera..I lost count at 27. Rene Douglas--Editors Note's Belmont--would be another...so make it three. JMO.

[EMD4ME]

Well, in this situation, I can think of a couple. One, it was his style...couple others, it was situational..

Chris McCarron. Watch Alysheba's Derby, now that's a right handed whip. Mikey Smith...his ride on Giacamo in the Derby tells me he did not do it for the camera..I lost count at 27. Rene Douglas--Editors Note's Belmont--would be another...so make it three. JMO.

Hey Tall One...I was referring to the ticky tack light click right hand whip along with the weak hand light pump. Sorry, I wasn't being clear. Was responding to a prior post.

I am sure there have been some awesome left handed drives with right hand whipping in racing history, despite me totally believing that most serious rides are predominantly left hand whipped down the lane.

Of course, each horse is different, some hate a left hand crop, some horses lug out, need a right hand whip and each situation is different.

[Tall One]

Hey Tall One...I was referring to the ticky tack light click right hand whip along with the weak hand light pump. Sorry, I wasn't being clear. Was responding to a prior post.

I am sure there have been some awesome left handed drives with right hand whipping in racing history, despite me totally believing that most serious rides are predominantly left hand whipped down the lane.

Of course, each horse is different, some hate a left hand crop, some horses lug out, need a right hand whip and each situation is different.


Easy to get lost in translation these posted words.. :D

My ACTUAL point was Eddie D could get more out of a hand ride than most who were trying to get more out of their horse with a left or right hand whip.

But, regardless, I think we were still close to the same page. Nothing worse than window dressing down the lane.

[EMD4ME]

Easy to get lost in translation these posted words.. :D

My ACTUAL point was Eddie D could get more out of a hand ride than most who were trying to get more out of their horse with a left or right hand whip.

But, regardless, I think we were still close to the same page. Nothing worse than window dressing down the lane.


I don't worry, soon PA will probably go to face time or webchat or whatever it's called. No more mistyping or misspeaking ! :lol:

Eddie D. FOR SURE!

Makes me wish that guy who tried to punch Chavez back at PIM in the 1990's was around to make another attempt, when I see a jock on the lead or rallying late and giving "window dressing".

[Tall One]

Gawd...id forgot about that nut job. It was way too early in the card, for anybody to be that hammered..and I'm not talking about the number of beers I had that day at the Keeneland simulcast... :D

[EMD4ME]

Gawd...id forgot about that nut job. It was way too early in the card, for anybody to be that hammered..and I'm not talking about the number of beers I had that day at the Keeneland simulcast... :D

yeah that was nuts!

If he cost me a placing on a wager, I would've tracked him down and punched him :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just kidding!

I hope he did some serious time for that one.

[appistappis]

oh for the days of hugo dittfach....rode every race like it was a stakes.

[Tor Ekman]

Pilot Error: ‘We’ve Got Another Lap To Go Here, My Friend’ :lol:

https://www.paulickreport.com/horseplayers-category/pilot-error-were-got-another-lap-to-go-here-my-friend/

Named in honor of the nine-time champion Irish jockey who died last week at the age of 43 from pancreatic cancer, the starter allowance was scheduled at 1 1/2 miles on the turf, the same distance, as track announcer Matt Dinerman pointed out, as the Irish Derby that Smullen had won twice – most recently with Dermot Weld-trained Harzand in 2016.

The starting gate for this starter allowance contest was positioned nearly five furlongs from the finish line on the backstretch, meaning the nine runners would go 1 1/2 times around the about seven-furlong turf course.

Gomez was aboard Shot of a Lifetime, the second choice in the wagering at 3-1 odds for trainer Ellen Jackson. The California-bred gelding broke alertly from the No. 4 post position and quickly went to the front, opening up five lengths after a quarter mile in :24.12 and he was 15 lengths in front after a half in :47.40. Gomez could be seen peeking back several times, no doubt wondering where the competition was.

But then, shortly after crossing the finish line well in front of his closest pursuer, Gomez raised up in the saddle, allowing Shot of a Lifetime to gallop out toward the outside rail, his job seemingly done.

And then came the rest of the field, as Dinerman said: “And Shot of a Lifetime, I'm not sure if the rider understands, we've got another lap to go here my friend…and Shot of a Lifetime being taken out of the race. Shot of a Lifetime eased up now.”

[Dave Schwartz]

It's happened for years but lately jocks like Javier Castellano and Joel Rosario haven't been "finishing" their races. What I mean is once they get passed for first or second they just stop riding the horse the last 50-100 yards.
They must realize that we bet trifectas & supers with them.
Edgar Prado, Kent D are famous for just wrapping up a horse once they get passed.

Who are some of the jocks you notice don't finish every race?

This is an awesome idea for my new jockey stats!
Thank you!

It fits all the criteria I look for:
Measurable
Represents a known characteristic
Spins off other metrics

[Dave Schwartz]

Eddie D could teach everyone a lesson on how to finish.

I recall a study one of my stats friends did back in the 1980s of SoCal jockey tendancies.

The multi-year study showed that Eddie D (in particular) ran 2nd a huge percentage of the time on favorites in the last race of the card.

The numbers proved to be statistically significant, with Ci in the high 90s.

IOW, Eddie D horses produced an inordinate number of key exactas, with the Fav in the #2 position in the last race of the day.

[Tom]

Back in the 70s, FL offered a distance starter allowance series, races up to 4 miles and a 1/16.

One rider pulled up early, so for the rest of the races, they put a table in front of the tote board with 4 playboy bunnies dancing on it - one would hop off each lap. :p

I bet a horse, Mill Reef, who actually got LAPPED at 4m70.:rant:

[classhandicapper]

I bet a horse, Mill Reef, who actually got LAPPED at 4m70.:rant:

:lol:

That's a new one for me.

[therussmeister]

... they put a table in front of the tote board with 4 playboy bunnies dancing on it - one would hop off each lap. :p


I thought only the greyhounds chased the rabbits.

[Tom]

:lol:

That's a new one for me.

He was wide......:lol:

[stuball]

they are not paid by the owners.. the gamblers supply the money by betting.. follow the money