3/3 Gulfstream Rainbow 6 up to 2.1mil Carryover... Is today the day

[maliksealy210]

With the carryover now over the 2 million mark, I think we are all anticipating the big syndicates coming down the line this weekend to make a big stab at it with some big tickets. But, I think today's card has the perfect chance to be hit (similar to what the Magic Jack guy did several years ago of swooping it up before the weekend).

I will reevaluate a bit after we see the scratches come down the line, but right now 4 of the 6 races have 6 or more valid choices in deep fields, with the 11th being one of the toughest Maiden Claiming races I've seen of the Championship meet.

1360800 combinations today before scratches, meaning the ultimate caveman ticket is $272,160. I think we could see multiple tickets in the 40-50k range today after what the Magic Jack guy did. I think this card will pay out the pool.

If I'm wrong, well, I'm wrong.

[Stillriledup]

They'll get a much bigger pool on mandatory payout day if they don't try and create a card with impossible and large fields, throw in some short fields w Pletcher standouts, that way, you get everyone in the pool not just well heeled syndicates.

[therussmeister]

Might have a lot of scratches because of the Payson Park quarantine.

[hopbet]

NO single tickets. Carry over for Friday's card

HOPBET

[thespaah]

I'm confused. The equibase chart says "6 correct" with a payout of
$1842....Then in the right column it states there is a $2.2 million carryover.
What gives?

[castaway01]

I'm confused. The equibase chart says "6 correct" with a payout of
$1842....Then in the right column it states there is a $2.2 million carryover.
What gives?

It's the Rainbow Pick 6, not a regular Pick 6. Getting all six correct has a payout, but it's only a "consolation" payout (which is why the bet has an effective takeout of over 50 percent, but that's been beaten to death in other threads). You have to be the only person to have a correct ticket to get the $2.2 million. If there's more than one winning ticket it carries over.

[arw629]

I didn't see the first three races but the rest of the card seemed like there was a huge speed bias on the turf course. The dirt track featured closers from the clouds but the dirt races seemed to feature hot paces.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Once the rainbow p6 reaches a certain mass of $, it becomes difficult to hit on a single ticket because so many combinations get covered by lots of people and syndicates (I have read this from posts here on PA, I think).

I wonder if the track get to invest the "parked funds" anywhere short term while they "wait" for a winner?

What if the tote machines could calculate all the combinations that were not covered prior to post time and spit this info out for track management just before bet close time?

Then the track could just cover the remaining bets at a minimum cost and have the single winning ticket...

Are there any rules that say that the track can't bet on it's own product?

[therussmeister]

Once the rainbow p6 reaches a certain mass of $, it becomes difficult to hit on a single ticket because so many combinations get covered by lots of people and syndicates (I have read this from posts here on PA, I think).

I wonder if the track get to invest the "parked funds" anywhere short term while they "wait" for a winner?

What if the tote machines could calculate all the combinations that were not covered prior to post time and spit this info out for track management just before bet close time?

Then the track could just cover the remaining bets at a minimum cost and have the single winning ticket...

Are there any rules that say that the track can't bet on it's own product?
What kind of return can you get on a safe short-term investment these days?

As far as betting their own product, they would be better off figuring out which combos are only bet once and betting them to assure a carryover.

[VigorsTheGrey]

What kind of return can you get on a safe short-term investment these days?

As far as betting their own product, they would be better off figuring out which combos are only bet once and betting them to assure a carryover.

ok....what if they do BOTH? then they would have the ones that are bet once AND the ones that were formerly not bet at all. Bingo!

[Hard2Like]

ok....what if they do BOTH? then they would have the ones that are bet once AND the ones that were formerly not bet at all. Bingo!

That's not even the half of it!
What about when the Martians scoop this thing?

[ultracapper]

I think the track has bought tickets before. I think we discussed this before. Or maybe it was being suggested they should the next to last day of the meet.

I remember this came up.

[Stillriledup]

Once the rainbow p6 reaches a certain mass of $, it becomes difficult to hit on a single ticket because so many combinations get covered by lots of people and syndicates (I have read this from posts here on PA, I think).

I wonder if the track get to invest the "parked funds" anywhere short term while they "wait" for a winner?

What if the tote machines could calculate all the combinations that were not covered prior to post time and spit this info out for track management just before bet close time?

Then the track could just cover the remaining bets at a minimum cost and have the single winning ticket...

Are there any rules that say that the track can't bet on it's own product?

There would have to a human being making the bets, someone with a valid SS number.

[ultracapper]

There would have to a human being making the bets, someone with a valid SS number.

Not certain about that. Some of these syndicates are actually LLCs. I know that Cratos said he and his associates set up an LLC for their operation. LLCs have Tax Identification Numbers. So do race tracks.

[Stillriledup]

Not certain about that. Some of these syndicates are actually LLCs. I know that Cratos said he and his associates set up an LLC for their operation. LLCs have Tax Identification Numbers. So do race tracks.

Interesting. Didnt know that.

[Stillriledup]

Caton Bredar reporting on TVG that mandatory payout day is March 26th.

[parlay]

they should be making it mandatory immediately. This now plays into the people with very deep pockets. This shows no consideration for the people that built this pot, the smaller bettor who can only sustain those dollar figure tickets for so long.

[Stillriledup]

they should be making it mandatory immediately. This now plays into the people with very deep pockets. This shows no consideration for the people that built this pot, the smaller bettor who can only sustain those dollar figure tickets for so long.

No doubt. They ought to pay this out monthly.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I have hit this thing a couple times already. Like others have said the key is to just hit. With so much dead money payoffs in the $1-$2k range are a daily occurrence. Ill take it every time

[green80]

Not certain about that. Some of these syndicates are actually LLCs. I know that Cratos said he and his associates set up an LLC for their operation. LLCs have Tax Identification Numbers. So do race tracks.

Forming a C corp. or LLC may have its tax advantages over a regular horseplayer. The corp may be able to deduct many expenses the player cannot. Also if a corp or llc cashes a signer and uses it's tax id #, there should not be any taxes held out.

[AndyC]

Forming a C corp. or LLC may have its tax advantages over a regular horseplayer. The corp may be able to deduct many expenses the player cannot. Also if a corp or llc cashes a signer and uses it's tax id #, there should not be any taxes held out.


Why?

[FlintAtTheFetlock]

Who is alive Sat 3/5. It's early but I have 2 tickets going after first leg.

Leg 1: :10: winner (duh)

Let's route for each other in this pie in the sky wager and keep one another posted. I hit it once but not for jackpot. You never know what can happen.

Good Luck

[no breathalyzer]

LOL I chucked that turf Pletcher out or i would of hit this damn thing

[castaway01]

I have hit this thing a couple times already. Like others have said the key is to just hit. With so much dead money payoffs in the $1-$2k range are a daily occurrence. Ill take it every time

Of course none of yours was the dead money right, you just played it straight trying to hit and weren't trying for the big jackpot? :D

[green80]

[/B]


Why?


If you own the racetrack and pay joe blow (an individual) 30,000 for landscaping, you are required to get his SS# and withhold taxes. If you pay ABC Landscaping INC. for the same work, you get their taxpayer id # and are not required to withhold taxes. The same should apply for cashing a ticket, if it is owned by the corporation.

[AndyC]

If you own the racetrack and pay joe blow (an individual) 30,000 for landscaping, you are required to get his SS# and withhold taxes. If you pay ABC Landscaping INC. for the same work, you get their taxpayer id # and are not required to withhold taxes. The same should apply for cashing a ticket, if it is owned by the corporation.

There is no requirement to withhold taxes on Joe Blow for landscaping if he provides his tax ID number. Otherwise he is subject to backup withholding.

[JimmyQ]

they should be making it mandatory immediately. This now plays into the people with very deep pockets. This shows no consideration for the people that built this pot, the smaller bettor who can only sustain those dollar figure tickets for so long.

What are deep pockets in your opinion?
JimmyQ

[Stillriledup]

What are deep pockets in your opinion?
JimmyQ
Probably someone who could toss a few grand into the pool and not even blink if they lose.

[JimmyQ]

Probably someone who could toss a few grand into the pool and not even blink if they lose.

Yeah but I wonder how many of those people really exist into this pool on a daily basis? To me, it has nothing to do with how big or small your ticket is but rather the horses you place on your ticket. Yes, the larger tickets have more room for error but if you are playing an affordable ticket it's your choice if for say you have 3 horses in a race and you decide to take the chalks such as 8/5 ML Favorite, the 5/2 second choice, and the 7/2 third choice or do you think the favorite is vulnerable and have the 5/2 second choice, an 8/1 ML horse and a 12/1 ML horse. If you get to that 12/1 ML horse who lets say drifted up to 16/1 and did it with 3 part coverage you've eliminated a lot of tickets and others who had the horse might of had to go 6-7 horses deep.
It's an interesting subject for sure

JimmyQ

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Trust me I have donated my fair share to this carryover. I just dont think it will be hit until the mandatory payout. Too many people chasing, but I still play it every day. I actually really enjoy playing it.

[JimmyQ]

Trust me I have donated my fair share to this carryover. I just dont think it will be hit until the mandatory payout. Too many people chasing, but I still play it every day. I actually really enjoy playing it.

This too is my favorite wager of the entire betting year. I'll actually probably be a little lost on what to play next after this either hits or is paid out. I've been pouring all my time and resources into this wager and completely skipping every other circuit for the time being. I look at this as a golden opportunity

JimmyQ

[parlay]

poeple that can take 4 x 3k hits in a row and not have to hope the bank is open so they can shoot again today.

[JimmyQ]

poeple that can take 4 x 3k hits in a row and not have to hope the bank is open so they can shoot again today.

Yeah we hear the stories about people like this but I personally have seen none and don't know any either. How many do you know or see? I think these are people we build up in our minds when actually there are very few of them

JimmyQ

[JimmyQ]

Won't be around until tonight to watch the replays but my ticket will be placed in the next 30 minutes. Best of Luck to all playing today. What a great time of year!

JimmyQ

[Hard2Like]

2 and 11 for all the cheese
Hope its one of you guys

[JimmyQ]

2 and 11 for all the cheese
Hope its one of you guys

Wasn't me. Actually only went 4 of 6 today missing 2 shortest prices in sequence. Had the 9 singled in the last and hit the 2 bigger prices in middle legs. That's the way I build my tickets though and glad to be back to play another day tomorrow. Getting to work on it now

Good Luck everyone
JimmyQ

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Was 5-6 damnit. Great thing about horse racing is you start the next day anew. Let's getem!

[JimmyQ]

Was 5-6 damnit. Great thing about horse racing is you start the next day anew. Let's getem!
My ticket is in and definitely a new day. Good luck to everyone going after this today

JimmyQ

[FlintAtTheFetlock]

Good Luck everyone chasing this today (3/12).

Another 5 of 6 frustrater mid week when it paid 14k. If anyone is alive after a few legs lets keep each other posted. I've hit this pig before and determined to do it again. (not jackpot)

Cheers

[JimmyQ]

Good Luck everyone chasing this today (3/12).

Another 5 of 6 frustrater mid week when it paid 14k. If anyone is alive after a few legs lets keep each other posted. I've hit this pig before and determined to do it again. (not jackpot)

Cheers

Sounds good. My wager is placed for the sequence and if I'm alive after the first few legs I'll keep everyone posted especially if we get any prices in the first few.

Good Luck to all
JimmyQ

[JimmyQ]

I put a less than stellar ticket together today

JimmyQ

[no breathalyzer]

i was out all day and just look at the results.... i cant believe it wasn't hit today .. had to be everyone that cashed it today singled Power Alert in the first leg

[jdhanover]

When is mandatory payout day?

Looking at results...today had 2 $60+ horses plus a $20 horse yet still multiple tickets. Wow.

[JohnGalt1]

3/26 I believe.

[davew]

3/26 I believe.

Was it last year when it was hit a day or 2 before mandatory payout?

[Stillriledup]

A lot of tickets on the floor with 3 races left, stay tuned.

[Saratoga_Mike]

A lot of tickets on the floor with 3 races left, stay tuned.

yeah, carryover into mandatory payout at month-end at risk ... best bet in the world ... hope it carries.

[davew]

A lot of tickets on the floor with 3 races left, stay tuned.

A $148.60 winner probably did not make many tickets..

[Stillriledup]

109 live tickets remaining w 2 races left.

[davew]

9 tickets live

1,2,4,10 take down pool over $3 million

[Stillriledup]

9 tickets live

1,2,4,10 take down pool over $3 million
that's crazy, going to be exciting to watch!

[Stillriledup]

9 tickets live

1,2,4,10 take down pool over $3 million

The 10 looks like the most live shot, trainer change, first time claimer, etc

[davew]

I feel the 2 is a better shot

[tcasolo]

Hard to believe that the 8 wasn't covered at all.

[senortout]

Hard to believe that the 8 wasn't covered at all.

Numerous people covered with the 8, that is exactly the reason those holding it did not take down the whole pool for themselves. If any of those [4] 1-2-4-10 had won, a sole winner wins the whole shebang. Hence the carryover, until the mandatory pay-out day.

[davew]

Numerous people covered with the 8, that is exactly the reason those holding it did not take down the whole pool for themselves. If any of those [4] 1-2-4-10 had won, a sole winner wins the whole shebang. Hence the carryover, until the mandatory pay-out day.


nope, $0.20 Pick-6 (3/9/5/7/8/8) Paid $584.54 (5OF6)

only the 5 and 7 had more than 1 ticket on them (2 & 3)
the rest paid 5 of 6

[tcasolo]

Yes. I immediately saw the payouts for 5 of 6. I believe the 1,2,4, and 10 were all longer odds than the winner @ 4/1. That's why I said it was hard to believe that the person(s) with the 1,2,4,10 didn't add the 8. Has to be pretty mad today....

[rrpic6]

Yes. I immediately saw the payouts for 5 of 6. I believe the 1,2,4, and 10 were all longer odds than the winner @ 4/1. That's why I said it was hard to believe that the person(s) with the 1,2,4,10 didn't add the 8. Has to be pretty mad today....

If that person had added the 8, maybe another entity adds it also.:cool: Just sayin'.....No big deal for a must pay-out day March 26th if there isn't 3 million plus to go after.

RR

[mars]

Question ?????

Does the cost of the mandatory pick 6 payout remain 20 cent ?, or does the cost of the ticket go up ?

[JimmyQ]

Question ?????

Does the cost of the mandatory pick 6 payout remain 20 cent ?, or does the cost of the ticket go up ?

Remains the same. Short fields seem to be on the card this week so let's hope it gets to Saturday
JimmyQ

[Stillriledup]

Can someone contact Gulfstream and explain to them that they'll get at least 5 million more in handle if they throw in some uncompetitive short fields? If you can only spend 100 or 2, you're not playing it with six 14 horse fields. Tracks are too stupid to understand this. Also, you don't want a massive payout, you want a few hundred people to hit for 20 grand so the money stays In circulation, you don't want a few whales to hit for a couple million each as a large chunk of that money goes out of circulation, why do tracks not realize this?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Can someone contact Gulfstream and explain to them that they'll get at least 5 million more in handle if they throw in some uncompetitive short fields? If you can only spend 100 or 2, you're not playing it with six 14 horse fields. Tracks are too stupid to understand this. Also, you don't want a massive payout, you want a few hundred people to hit for 20 grand so the money stays In circulation, you don't want a few whales to hit for a couple million each as a large chunk of that money goes out of circulation, why do tracks not realize this?

Yet you oppose dime supers b/c it reduces the chance for huge payouts? Also, I don't believe there's any evidence to back your above assertion (i.e. smaller fields will increase the handle on mand payout day). I hope the fields are huge.

[Stillriledup]

Yet you oppose dime supers b/c it reduces the chance for huge payouts? Also, I don't believe there's any evidence to back your above assertion (i.e. smaller fields will increase the handle on mand payout day). I hope the fields are huge.

If one person hits for 5 million (pool will be much bigger just using these numbers as example) or 1000 people hit for 4999 each, you're saying there's no proof the 'churn' will be greater going forward? If one person hits for 5, over 1 mil goes to govt, if payout is 4999, all that money goes into the accounts of players to get reused in the following days and weeks, if one person hits, there's less 'churn' , is this something you're disputing?

[Saratoga_Mike]

If one person hits for 5 million (pool will be much bigger just using these numbers as example) or 1000 people hit for 4999 each, you're saying there's no proof the 'churn' will be greater going forward? If one person hits for 5, over 1 mil goes to govt, if payout is 4999, all that money goes into the accounts of players to get reused in the following days and weeks, if one person hits, there's less 'churn' , is this something you're disputing?

I didn't realize you were talking about handle on subsequent days. Taxes are friction, so I won't argue that point.

[Stillriledup]

I didn't realize you were talking about handle on subsequent days. Taxes are friction, so I won't argue that point.

That was one point I was making, but I didnt see 'amazing point by you SRU ' so I just assumed you disagreed with it all. ;)

I'm speaking on behalf of Gulfstream, they would handle more if it looked like you had SOME SHOT to hit this, with huge fields of impossible races, you'll get plenty of people skipping altogether or betting much less. There's no need to make bettors feel they have no shot and if you have a short field or two, that's not going to deter anyone.

[Poindexter]

Can someone contact Gulfstream and explain to them that they'll get at least 5 million more in handle if they throw in some uncompetitive short fields? If you can only spend 100 or 2, you're not playing it with six 14 horse fields. Tracks are too stupid to understand this. Also, you don't want a massive payout, you want a few hundred people to hit for 20 grand so the money stays In circulation, you don't want a few whales to hit for a couple million each as a large chunk of that money goes out of circulation, why do tracks not realize this?

Disagree 100%(maybe 110% :lol: ). It is a 20 cent pick six, you don't have to be a whale to hit no matter how big or competitive the fields. If you throw out 6 seven horse fields you are likely paying out $300 to $600 for six. 5 million dollar carry over for that. How boring can you get. The point is that as they did it last year even for a couple hundred bucks if you get lucky you have a legitimate chance of a 10 to 30 K score. That is what makes the bet fun and enticing. Also gives handicappers(guys like you) a chance to use their knowledge to more of an advantage. Nothing stupid about the tracks, they are dead correct on this subject. In fact I have to admit that while I am not a huge fan of 4 million being pulled out of the racing population, for a redistribution on 1 day, there plan is working as well as it can work. They are putting up pools of close to half a million in a 20 cent pick six pool on a daily basis this month. They are having pick sixes pay $10,000 to $40,000 quite frequently on a 20 cent ticket this month. The day nobody hit, there had to be at least 100 people that are beating their head saying "if only" they would have collected 3.5 million.

[1st time lasix]

Due to takeout... difficulty.....and rollover of 30% of the pool each day...this is by far the worst bet in racing. (Maybe closely followed by jackpot pick fives). I play carry-overs all the time...... but will wait until mandatory payout day before I will step in here. I am amazed that anyone with math skills would participate...then again....I am amazed that any horse player would venture into any exotic pool anywhere when "the rake" exceeds 21%.

[caper]

Due to takeout... difficulty.....and rollover of 30% of the pool each day...this is by far the worst bet in racing. (Maybe closely followed by jackpot pick fives). I play carry-overs all the time...... but will wait until mandatory payout day before I will step in here. I am amazed that anyone with math skills would participate...then again....I am amazed that any horse player would venture into any exotic pool anywhere when "the rake" exceeds 21%.


Yeah, but the way the bet is played that so much of the time ridiculous longshots are way overplayed. If you are playing to just win and not trying to bring down the pot, the bet still pays very well. I don't think the takeout is the whole story on this bet at all.

[Stillriledup]

Disagree 100%(maybe 110% :lol: ). It is a 20 cent pick six, you don't have to be a whale to hit no matter how big or competitive the fields. If you throw out 6 seven horse fields you are likely paying out $300 to $600 for six. 5 million dollar carry over for that. How boring can you get. The point is that as they did it last year even for a couple hundred bucks if you get lucky you have a legitimate chance of a 10 to 30 K score. That is what makes the bet fun and enticing. Also gives handicappers(guys like you) a chance to use their knowledge to more of an advantage. Nothing stupid about the tracks, they are dead correct on this subject. In fact I have to admit that while I am not a huge fan of 4 million being pulled out of the racing population, for a redistribution on 1 day, there plan is working as well as it can work. They are putting up pools of close to half a million in a 20 cent pick six pool on a daily basis this month. They are having pick sixes pay $10,000 to $40,000 quite frequently on a 20 cent ticket this month. The day nobody hit, there had to be at least 100 people that are beating their head saying "if only" they would have collected 3.5 million.

It comes down to math. Let me try a hypothetical example. One pick 6 has six fields all 14 horses and the shortest ML fave in any race is 4-1 and the longest shot is 12-1 (assume legit ml) which means there are no automatic throw outs. The second pick 6 has the same scenario except only 5 of the legs are impossible and the 6th leg has a Pletcher 2-5 ML horse In a 6 horse field, there's a 2-1 second choice and everyone else is a no-hoper for the most part. Would you say that the pick 6 with the 6 big fields will have a bigger handle?

[VigorsTheGrey]

I'm tempted to play this week...with so much money in the daily pools seems like a good wager any way...what are some of the reasonable ticket structures for someone who can't afford a large ticket? I only want to spend at most 50 bucks on it a day...that's a lot of money for me but if they must distribute it then I'll take a shot....I'm thinking something like 2x2x1x4x1x3....what is a quick and easy way to add this up...is the formula axbxcxdxexf times .20?

[VigorsTheGrey]

Due to takeout... difficulty.....and rollover of 30% of the pool each day...this is by far the worst bet in racing. (Maybe closely followed by jackpot pick fives). I play carry-overs all the time...... but will wait until mandatory payout day before I will step in here. I am amazed that anyone with math skills would participate...then again....I am amazed that any horse player would venture into any exotic pool anywhere when "the rake" exceeds 21%.

I'm thinking of going back to just win and place betting.....either betting 1 horse to win 80 percent with 20 percent place backup....or 2 horses to win at 50 percent each....what do you think about that type of play?

[Poindexter]

It comes down to math. Let me try a hypothetical example. One pick 6 has six fields all 14 horses and the shortest ML fave in any race is 4-1 and the longest shot is 12-1 (assume legit ml) which means there are no automatic throw outs. The second pick 6 has the same scenario except only 5 of the legs are impossible and the 6th leg has a Pletcher 2-5 ML horse In a 6 horse field, there's a 2-1 second choice and everyone else is a no-hoper for the most part. Would you say that the pick 6 with the 6 big fields will have a bigger handle?

On Mandatory payout day, the handle will be huge period. No horse player with a pulse(assuming they play pick sixes) is going to sit out a free 4 to 5 million dollar giveaway on a 20 cent pick six no matter how tough it is. You can go 3x3x3x3x3x3 for about $146. Worse case scenario you have a 60% chance per leg or about a 4% chance of hitting Your argument would make sense on a $2 pick six but not on a 20 cent pick six. Players will pool money. You can go 4x4x4x4x4x4 for about $800. Worse case scenario is you have a 10% chance of hitting that ticket. Throw in creative approaches and you get more bang for the buck. There is so much you can do on a 20 cent pick six. If anything, bigger fields likely will encourage players to bet more and spread wider. But the main point is that big full fields opens it up so numerous people can have a nice score, or with the right horses coming in a few have a life changing score. There is no excitement or value in a pick six where 70% of the public latches on to 2 obvious singles and they get home and a zillion people get back $170 each. That would be nothing but a huge disappointment even for those who hit.

[Stillriledup]

On Mandatory payout day, the handle will be huge period. No horse player with a pulse(assuming they play pick sixes) is going to sit out a free 4 to 5 million dollar giveaway on a 20 cent pick six no matter how tough it is. You can go 3x3x3x3x3x3 for about $146. Worse case scenario you have a 60% chance per leg or about a 4% chance of hitting Your argument would make sense on a $2 pick six but not on a 20 cent pick six. Players will pool money. You can go 4x4x4x4x4x4 for about $800. Worse case scenario is you have a 10% chance of hitting that ticket. Throw in creative approaches and you get more bang for the buck. There is so much you can do on a 20 cent pick six. If anything, bigger fields likely will encourage players to bet more and spread wider. But the main point is that big full fields opens it up so numerous people can have a nice score, or with the right horses coming in a few have a life changing score. There is no excitement or value in a pick six where 70% of the public latches on to 2 obvious singles and they get home and a zillion people get back $170 each. That would be nothing but a huge disappointment even for those who hit.

We get that the pool will be massive but why leave money on the table. Not every player w pulse is betting something that looks impossible from a track they don't normally follow. Pools will be bigger, not everyone is desperate to gamble on some pipe dream, I have zero problem skipping this mandatory day if I don't like what I see in the PPs

[Poindexter]

We get that the pool will be massive but why leave money on the table. Not every player w pulse is betting something that looks impossible from a track they don't normally follow. Pools will be bigger, not everyone is desperate to gamble on some pipe dream, I have zero problem skipping this mandatory day if I don't like what I see in the PPs

You are the exception, not the rule and frankly the less that is bet the better it is for players. So if the track is leaving money on the table (and I do not believe this for one second) by making it too tough, that is to the players advantage because the less that is bet, the less takeout and the bigger the positive expectation. If too much is bet then the entire carryover gets wiped out by the takeout.

Even if you were right, having a competitive pick six on a huge carryover day makes for a much better product and is what racing is trying to attain. The perception that for a reasonable gamble you can come home with 25k or 50 k or even a 100k.

[therussmeister]

I'm tempted to play this week...with so much money in the daily pools seems like a good wager any way...what are some of the reasonable ticket structures for someone who can't afford a large ticket? I only want to spend at most 50 bucks on it a day...that's a lot of money for me but if they must distribute it then I'll take a shot....I'm thinking something like 2x2x1x4x1x3....what is a quick and easy way to add this up...is the formula axbxcxdxexf times .20?
That is indeed the formula.

[JimmyQ]

I'm tempted to play this week...with so much money in the daily pools seems like a good wager any way...what are some of the reasonable ticket structures for someone who can't afford a large ticket? I only want to spend at most 50 bucks on it a day...that's a lot of money for me but if they must distribute it then I'll take a shot....I'm thinking something like 2x2x1x4x1x3....what is a quick and easy way to add this up...is the formula axbxcxdxexf times .20?

My advice to you is if you are willing to play $50 a day (Weds, Thursday, Friday, & Saturday) is to bank the $50 W-F and put in a $200 ticket to Saturday. Yes you're gambling it will make it to Saturday and if it doesn't you have yourself a $200 bankroll for that day. If you do want to play $40-$50 a day you could structure your ticket 1x1x2x4x5x5= $40. Place 2 singles any where you feel confident. Also you can x by $.20 or just divide by 5, whichever is easiest. Good Luck this week

JimmyQ

[therussmeister]

Yeah, but the way the bet is played that so much of the time ridiculous longshots are way overplayed. If you are playing to just win and not trying to bring down the pot, the bet still pays very well. I don't think the takeout is the whole story on this bet at all.
I don't think takeout is the whole story on any bet ever. Despite higher takeout I am much more successful on superfectas than exactas, and more successful on exactas than win bets.

[mars]

I'm tempted to play this week...with so much money in the daily pools seems like a good wager any way...what are some of the reasonable ticket structures for someone who can't afford a large ticket? I only want to spend at most 50 bucks on it a day...that's a lot of money for me but if they must distribute it then I'll take a shot....I'm thinking something like 2x2x1x4x1x3....what is a quick and easy way to add this up...is the formula axbxcxdxexf times .20?

Or just use a ticket calculator

http://www.jazzsports.ag/services/horseticketcalculator.php

[1st time lasix]

I don't think takeout is the whole story on any bet ever. Despite higher takeout I am much more successful on superfectas than exactas, and more successful on exactas than win bets. ************ We respectfully disagree here. If you are a regular player...and by that I mean you play a card over 50 plus times a year...then the take-out is extremely relevant. I would argue that yes indeed it is "the whole story." If you are more successful with supers...great!!! Then "only" play the venues that take-out less in those pools---Keeneland, Turfway and Oaklawn come to mind. In a place like NY...Tampa.... Parx, or Gulfstream- the extra rake on tris and supers will virtually "punish" frequent players who favor those pools. You simply are not getting the $ return for the high risks you take. Reluctantly ----I am willing to play carry-overs, exactas, doubles, pick fives, and any other pools if the rake is less that 21 percent or so. {wish it was 15%) I draw the line at higher. Every regular player who handicaps should have the take-outs of the tracks memorized and play your "overlay choices" accordingly. There are numerous options. I will wait to full payout day ---before I go near any of these jackpots. Of course I will never buy a lottery ticket nor drop coins in a slot machine either.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Or just use a ticket calculator

http://www.jazzsports.ag/services/horseticketcalculator.php

thank you!

[VigorsTheGrey]

My advice to you is if you are willing to play $50 a day (Weds, Thursday, Friday, & Saturday) is to bank the $50 W-F and put in a $200 ticket to Saturday. Yes you're gambling it will make it to Saturday and if it doesn't you have yourself a $200 bankroll for that day. If you do want to play $40-$50 a day you could structure your ticket 1x1x2x4x5x5= $40. Place 2 singles any where you feel confident. Also you can x by $.20 or just divide by 5, whichever is easiest. Good Luck this week

JimmyQ

thank you, both ideas make sense for me...like the $40 bet structure.

[therussmeister]

************ We respectfully disagree here. If you are a regular player...and by that I mean you play a card over 50 plus times a year...then the take-out is extremely relevant. I would argue that yes indeed it is "the whole story." If you are more successful with supers...great!!! Then "only" play the venues that take-out less in those pools---Keeneland, Turfway and Oaklawn come to mind. In a place like NY...Tampa.... Parx, or Gulfstream- the extra rake on tris and supers will virtually "punish" frequent players who favor those pools. You simply are not getting the $ return for the high risks you take. Reluctantly ----I am willing to play carry-overs, exactas, doubles, pick fives, and any other pools if the rake is less that 21 percent or so. {wish it was 15%) I draw the line at higher. Every regular player who handicaps should have the take-outs of the tracks memorized and play your "overlay choices" accordingly. There are numerous options. I will wait to full payout day ---before I go near any of these jackpots. Of course I will never buy a lottery ticket nor drop coins in a slot machine either.
I disagree. There are enough factors that determine profitability that you can't assume track A will be more profitable than track B due to lower takeout. I know there have been several people here that say Keeneland is one of their worst tracks despite the low takeout.

By the way, I play about 400 cards per year.

[Stillriledup]

There's no 'single' in the mandatory payout day.Gulf drew Saturdays card and it's up at drf for your perusal. I'd suggest getting to work now if you plan on 'investing' in the mandatory rainbow.

[EMD4ME]

There's no 'single' in the mandatory payout day.Gulf drew Saturdays card and it's up at drf for your perusal. I'd suggest getting to work now if you plan on 'investing' in the mandatory rainbow.

Can you imagine it rains right after leg 1 and all races become an all after leg 1?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Most races in the sequence are scheduled for Turf.

[lamboguy]

Can you imagine it rains right after leg 1 and all races become an all after leg 1?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Most races in the sequence are scheduled for Turf.thanks for bringing up that point. i hear there is a good chance that it will pour cats and dogs saturday. i wasn't going to play it now i am.

[mrhorseplayer]

Does anyone know what the payouts have been on mandatory pay day when the pool has not been hit just before mandatory day?

[AlBundy33]

Can you imagine it rains right after leg 1 and all races become an all after leg 1?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Most races in the sequence are scheduled for Turf.

I'm just amazed that five out of the six races are on the turf in the sequence. I understand that most of the races are on the grass to begin with, but you would think in a situation like that they would split the races evenly between the dirt and turf.

[Hard2Like]

Big fields on Saturday. 3 maiden contests in the mix.
5 races scheduled on the turf. Rain expected as mentioned.
Top tier jocks out of town for big races elsewhere.
As long as it gets to Saturday, Sign Me Up!

[tcasolo]

Rain Friday am, then just 20% chance until Sunday.

[Stillriledup]

Can you imagine it rains right after leg 1 and all races become an all after leg 1?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Most races in the sequence are scheduled for Turf.

The "jockeys' can refuse to ride due to UNSAFE TURF CONDITIONS and they can make all the races All's!

In fact they ought to Eric cancel Fridays card so the jocks can set up their tickets for Jeff saturday!! :lol:

[EMD4ME]

The "jockeys' can refuse to ride due to UNSAFE TURF CONDITIONS and they can make all the races All's!

In fact they ought to Eric cancel Fridays card so the jocks can set up their tickets for Jeff saturday!! :lol:

I think you're thinking of another circuit :lol:

[JimmyQ]

The "jockeys' can refuse to ride due to UNSAFE TURF CONDITIONS and they can make all the races All's!

In fact they ought to Eric cancel Fridays card so the jocks can set up their tickets for Jeff saturday!! :lol:

Thursday is last chance of one person taking this down as Friday's card is almost insulting as it looks like a clear set up for Saturday's monster pool. I'm shocked $700k was placed in that pool today but I thank all that did so

JimmyQ

[Hard2Like]

Now don't one of ya'll go and scoop this thing tomorrow.
Looking forward to the chance at a score on Saturday. Also glad it's comin to an end because I'm gettin tired of explaining how this bet works to my buddy every time GP runs.

[JimmyQ]

Now don't one of ya'll go and scoop this thing tomorrow.
Looking forward to the chance at a score on Saturday. Also glad it's comin to an end because I'm gettin tired of explaining how this bet works to my buddy every time GP runs.
Only 45 horses in the sequence tomorrow. Hopefully that doesn't scare people away
JimmyQ

[Stillriledup]

They should have mandatory payout on Sunday, it's nice of GP to run mandatory on sat to compensate for the idiots in states who refuse to open on Sunday

[no breathalyzer]

Will really suck if i wasted my time and they pull off the turf tomarrow.. hopefully that rock hard grass needed the water... i put hrs of detailed film work in for this!

[Stillriledup]

Anyone know if leg 5 today in pick 5 pays to "all"?

[Hard2Like]

Get busy conspiracy kids

[Stillriledup]

Get busy conspiracy kids

There's no conspiracy. They just carded small uncompetitive fields today to make sure it wasnt hit.

[mrhorseplayer]

lots would have scratched today anyway its off the turf

[FlintAtTheFetlock]

Anyone know if leg 5 today in pick 5 pays to "all"?

Never seen that before. Only one horse scratched yet they paid ALL. Was alive to 4 horses in Pick 5 and my biggest price came in :5: . Was cursing at the screen when I heard paying ALL, but somehow managed to return $124.80 on $24.00 bet. Weird. Nothing to see here move along :)

[Stillriledup]

FYI they paid off to all in leg 5, suited me fine since I was alive w just the 6 who couldn't run at all.

[JimmyQ]

Will really suck if i wasted my time and they pull off the turf tomarrow.. hopefully that rock hard grass needed the water... i put hrs of detailed film work in for this!
I think tomorrow should be fine and probably listed as "good" for the turf. Lets just hope nothing too wild happens in the final 3 races as its down to only 3,245 tickets with 3 races remaining...if 2 of the 3 come in bombs then we might not be talking about tomorrow

JimmyQ

[JimmyQ]

I wouldn't be shocked to see this get cancelled as the radar looks scary for another hour plus.

JimmyQ

[Stillriledup]

I think tomorrow should be fine and probably listed as "good" for the turf. Lets just hope nothing too wild happens in the final 3 races as its down to only 3,245 tickets with 3 races remaining...if 2 of the 3 come in bombs then we might not be talking about tomorrow

JimmyQ

If someone is Alive to the pool, I would expect to see a late scratch, or, the jocks deciding to not ride due to 'poor track conditions'. :D

[JimmyQ]

They might need to ALL/ALL this, payout today's entire pool and get out of dodge and onto tomorrow. The turf is probably a serious ? at this point as the rain continues to fall and now it appears tomorrow afternoon could have T-Storms in the area.

JimmyQ

[Hard2Like]

That track drains very well, I take it

[JimmyQ]

That track drains very well, I take it
And now the FUN begins for tomorrow!

Awesome. Happy Handicapping

JimmyQ

[mnmark]

On or off the turf tomorrow? How much rain did they receive ?tney have been bone dry for weeks so my guess would be if it was 2 inches of rain they may be off except the stakes

[the little guy]

Gabby Tweeted ( and I retweeted her ) that all five scheduled turf races in the sequence will remain on the turf.

[AlBundy33]

I'm a bit surprised that the races are being left on the turf, considering that the following Saturday is Gulfstream's huge card and they have some big turf races on that day.

The timing of the mandatory payoff is a bit odd the more I think about it. But then again, I don't run a racetrack either. So what do I know? :D

[the little guy]

I'm a bit surprised that the races are being left on the turf, considering that the following Saturday is Gulfstream's huge card and they have some big turf races on that day.

The timing of the mandatory payoff is a bit odd the more I think about it. But then again, I don't run a racetrack either. So what do I know? :D

The courses drain VERY well and they haven't gotten any rain since early February. I wouldn't be surprised if the courses are firm.

[SandyW]

The courses drain VERY well and they haven't gotten any rain since early February. I wouldn't be surprised if the courses are firm.
Andy, since you spent the winter at Gulfstream and I am sure that you know the horses in Saturday's Rainbow 6 better than most of us.
Could you help us with your selections for the Rainbow 6.
This type of a betting opportunity does not come along to often, if ever.
Thank you Andy for any help you can give us.

[deelo]

wait...they pay to ALL if a race is taken off turf? what? I don't follow the rainbow 6 but this seems silly

[the little guy]

Andy, since you spent the winter at Gulfstream and I am sure that you know the horses in Saturday's Rainbow 6 better than most of us.
Could you help us with your selections for the Rainbow 6.
This type of a betting opportunity does not come along to often, if ever.
Thank you Andy for any help you can give us.

That would require me handicapping the races. I didn't.

[Vinman]

For what it's worth, trainer Chuck Simon is quite sure that the turf at GP will be firm today.

Vinman

[JimmyQ]

The work is complete and the ticket is in. Now time to sit back and enjoy the ride.
BOL to all that are playing today. What a day and I've already made the decision that after today I'm on a 5+ week hiatus from horses so that I'm fresh for Oaks/Derby weekend. This run at the rainbow has been time consuming and I need a freshening myself.
Good Luck
JimmyQ

[shouldacoulda]

Pool at 10 mil expected to go to about 15 mil. Good luck everybody who's playing. My ticket is in already. Might just play one more using the SWAG method lol

[Stillriledup]

Pool at 10 mil expected to go to about 15 mil. Good luck everybody who's playing. My ticket is in already. Might just play one more using the SWAG method lol

GP left 10 mil on table due to making this sequence impossibly hard, no reason not to have 20 In new money.

[Stillriledup]

Yet you oppose dime supers b/c it reduces the chance for huge payouts? Also, I don't believe there's any evidence to back your above assertion (i.e. smaller fields will increase the handle on mand payout day). I hope the fields are huge.

Evidence is only 10 mil in new money. Should have been at least 15 upwards of 20.

[Stillriledup]

Disagree 100%(maybe 110% :lol: ). It is a 20 cent pick six, you don't have to be a whale to hit no matter how big or competitive the fields. If you throw out 6 seven horse fields you are likely paying out $300 to $600 for six. 5 million dollar carry over for that. How boring can you get. The point is that as they did it last year even for a couple hundred bucks if you get lucky you have a legitimate chance of a 10 to 30 K score. That is what makes the bet fun and enticing. Also gives handicappers(guys like you) a chance to use their knowledge to more of an advantage. Nothing stupid about the tracks, they are dead correct on this subject. In fact I have to admit that while I am not a huge fan of 4 million being pulled out of the racing population, for a redistribution on 1 day, there plan is working as well as it can work. They are putting up pools of close to half a million in a 20 cent pick six pool on a daily basis this month. They are having pick sixes pay $10,000 to $40,000 quite frequently on a 20 cent ticket this month. The day nobody hit, there had to be at least 100 people that are beating their head saying "if only" they would have collected 3.5 million.

You were wrong, lots of people passed.

[no breathalyzer]

i played a $60 ticket.. wish i played it for more now.. :8: was a rat lost at 6/5

[MOG4023]

Quick question

If the 6 of 6 is hit or when the 6 of 6 is hit...............is there a conso for 5 of 6?

[Stillriledup]

Quick question

If the 6 of 6 is hit or when the 6 of 6 is hit...............is there a conso for 5 of 6?

It appears that there was no conso on this bet, funny how their pick 5 has a conso but not the 6. (Bad beat for CJs wife who would have had 2 consos)

[Hard2Like]

Couldn't pull the trigger on third leg winner.
Cheap maiden claimer deserved more coverage, dang it

[Poindexter]

You were wrong, lots of people passed.

You can believe what you want to believe. The card the way it was turned out great. Unless we play God, change the card and replay the day we will never know what the pool might have been your way. According to an article on the front page of PA this was a record pool surpassing the pool in Hollywood Park's 3.2 million dollar carryover in a pick six(2007 I believe), so I have a hard time believing that there is an ounce of truth to your presumption.

We know of at least 3 posters that were right there for big money. Only you can find fault in this because it was not your type of card. A lot of happy players out there that got home at least $89,000(and no I wasn't one of the). There is no better bet in racing than this and every year or so this opportunity comes up, I will be betting with both hands. Also as stated before the less that is bet the bigger the advantage to the winning players. There was somewhere in the neighborhood of a 2 million dollar surplus(carryover less takeout).

[Stillriledup]

You can believe what you want to believe. The card the way it was turned out great. Unless we play God, change the card and replay the day we will never know what the pool might have been your way. According to an article on the front page of PA this was a record pool surpassing the pool in Hollywood Park's 3.2 million dollar carryover in a pick six(2007 I believe), so I have a hard time believing that there is an ounce of truth to your presumption.

We know of at least 3 posters that were right there for big money. Only you can find fault in this because it was not your type of card. A lot of happy players out there that got home at least $89,000(and no I wasn't one of the). There is no better bet in racing than this and every year or so this opportunity comes up, I will be betting with both hands. Also as stated before the less that is bet the bigger the advantage to the winning players. There was somewhere in the neighborhood of a 2 million dollar surplus(carryover less takeout).

I'm not saying it's a bad bet, that's not my point.

[Poindexter]

By the way, if they really want to milk the carryover cow, instead of having a mandatory payout giving out the entire pool on one random day, they should wait till the carryover reaches 4 million, then on the Saturday of that week, retain 3 million, and give out the rest as a mandatory payout. Obviously less would be bet that day, but they come back the next day with a 3 million dollar carryover, maintain $400,000+ pools on a daily basis and within a few weeks assuming no one brings down the pool they go back Jack and do it again. If nobody brings down the pool as a lone pick six ticket, this could go on and on and on.................with mandatory payouts every 3 weeks or so.

[FlintAtTheFetlock]

Wow, this builds up quickly and is now nearing 400k. Looks like some decent 'buster' plays on the card today so I will take a stab. I think when pool size is healthy but not crazy big, and racing attention moves North, it makes this more attainable for the average player. if not the jackpot, some nice scores 6 of 6.

Good luck to anyone playing...

[FlintAtTheFetlock]

Looks like coming down today 4/15 (tax day of all days). Someone has ALL in the last leg 12 horse field. Imagine that? Very impressive with several bombs in sequence.

$618,643.00. No drama every horse pays the same... This is how I read the will pays. Must be nice to sit back and savor

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Looks like the winning ticket cost over $10k from what I just read.

[Stillriledup]

By the way, if they really want to milk the carryover cow, instead of having a mandatory payout giving out the entire pool on one random day, they should wait till the carryover reaches 4 million, then on the Saturday of that week, retain 3 million, and give out the rest as a mandatory payout. Obviously less would be bet that day, but they come back the next day with a 3 million dollar carryover, maintain $400,000+ pools on a daily basis and within a few weeks assuming no one brings down the pool they go back Jack and do it again. If nobody brings down the pool as a lone pick six ticket, this could go on and on and on.................with mandatory payouts every 3 weeks or so.

I like this line of thinking I was thinking about something like this yesterday. If they had a mandatory payout every Saturday for example, they would prob have 100 or 200k in pool which would beget around 750/1M new money on a weekly basis. They only got what, 10m in new money after waiting for months last mandatory ? Seems like there's more churn and more money made overall with that type of strategy vs waiting for 3 months to get 10m in new money