Blaming Racing Industry on TVG

[sharkie187]

https://wittshorseracing.wordpress.com/2016/02/27/tvg-is-failing-us/

Writer is blaming the industry's faults on TVG. Some may be upset (like myself) when reading this.

[cj]

He thinks they overemphasize gambling? He must love how NBC covers racing.

[barahona44]

Not too many people watch a given horse race for the aesthetics of the race itself.When you have money on a horse, it gets a lot more interesting;even a mental bet on a particular horse will make it more compelling.I agree that TVG could do more on horse/jockey/trainer/owner backstories and IMHO, the announcers spend too much time on structuring Pick 4, 5 and 6 bets in relation to WPS and exacta bets.TVG is not what is wrong with horse racing.

[Stillriledup]

Tvg needs to evolve into something more than just average handicappers force feeding slapped together high risk exotic tickets one after the other. They have been doing the same exact thing for decades. Skip some races, concentrate on lower risk bets to help churn and for god sakes keep a running ROI Total for all analysts, anyone can slap together tickets and call themselves an expert if nobody is tracking performance.

[whodoyoulike]

I agree, he seems to incorrectly blame TVG for racing's problems. But, I do agree that the video should and could be improved for visual clarity of the races and have previously commented on here e.g., Chrome's recent race in Dubai. I think he incorrectly thinks the track announcers work for TVG and definitely don't want any TVG analyst commenting on a race as it progresses.

But, I do get his remarks questioning and comparing the popularity of golf and auto racing to horse racing. He doesn't understand why and neither do I but I'm not a fan of either of the other two.

[Grits]

Anyone with writing skill, proof reading skill this poor, and content this far off the mark regarding what would benefit thoroughbred racing? Aside from eliminating TVG, :faint: he or she indicates the reason why they're called BLOGS, and why so many who author them are simply hobbyists who go unpaid. The previous piece on "Why California Chrome's Victory is Irrelevant" isn't any better. -- Why is this person even paying attention to thoroughbred racing?

[thaskalos]

The man is absolutely right...IMO. That "blocky" green horse-head outline that TVG uses as a logo is terribly outdated...and contributes mightily to the problem that our game has in attracting a younger fan group. :ThmbUp:

All I can say is that my optimism for our favorite sport's future has been restored, now that I know that people like Mr. Witt are around...to offer such helpful suggestions in order to stimulate more interest in the game.

[olddaddy]

No authors name on a blog type site. Dont care.

[sharkie187]

I agree, he seems to incorrectly blame TVG for racing's problems. But, I do agree that the video should and could be improved for visual clarity of the races and have previously commented on here e.g., Chrome's recent race in Dubai. I think he incorrectly thinks the track announcers work for TVG and definitely don't want any TVG analyst commenting on a race as it progresses.

But, I do get his remarks questioning and comparing the popularity of golf and auto racing to horse racing. He doesn't understand why and neither do I but I'm not a fan of either of the other two.

The problem with the video is that its beyond's TVG/TVG2 control. TVG gets the track feed directly from the track. If the track has low quality camera, then we get low quality feeds. On big races, its usually the network using their own cameras which provides great quality. I see it all the time at the track, Churchill Downs live track feed is poor quality for the Kentucky Derby but the NBC coverage is amazing!

[sharkie187]

No authors name on a blog type site. Dont care.

Trevor Witt. Def not a horse player

[sandpit]

Not too many people watch a given horse race for the aesthetics of the race itself.When you have money on a horse, it gets a lot more interesting;even a mental bet on a particular horse will make it more compelling.I agree that TVG could do more on horse/jockey/trainer/owner backstories and IMHO, the announcers spend too much time on structuring Pick 4, 5 and 6 bets in relation to WPS and exacta bets.TVG is not what is wrong with horse racing.

Interesting, my wife and I were watching TVG Meydan coverage on Thursday (both home incapacitated by the flu), and she can't understand what the people who go to races in Dubai get out of it since they can't bet? I guess that's a good point, though I did tell her that I used to go to the track all the time and not wager (but that was only because racing officials were prohibited from gambling).

[thespaah]

The writer has a serious bug up his rear here.
I dismiss the writer's comments as they appear like those of a child who was denied cookies and milk.

[thespaah]

Not too many people watch a given horse race for the aesthetics of the race itself.When you have money on a horse, it gets a lot more interesting;even a mental bet on a particular horse will make it more compelling.I agree that TVG could do more on horse/jockey/trainer/owner backstories and IMHO, the announcers spend too much time on structuring Pick 4, 5 and 6 bets in relation to WPS and exacta bets.TVG is not what is wrong with horse racing.
What this writer is missing is that FACT that where wagering on sports is legal, most of the interest in sporting competition is generated by the ability place a wager or play a fantasy league game..

[thespaah]

Tvg needs to evolve into something more than just average handicappers force feeding slapped together high risk exotic tickets one after the other. They have been doing the same exact thing for decades. Skip some races, concentrate on lower risk bets to help churn and for god sakes keep a running ROI Total for all analysts, anyone can slap together tickets and call themselves an expert if nobody is tracking performance.
Yes. Because TVG is owned by an online wagering company, the on camera talent is going to hawk the on line wagering facility TVG provides.
And what better way to accomplish that than to encourage wagers on more expensive horizontal wagers.

[thespaah]

Bloggers get paid by generating clicks. Clicks generate advertising on the blogs.
TO a blogger, clicks are like ratings for TV and radio. The larger the audience, the more likely an ad agency is going to purse the broadcaster to buy ad time.
or the more likely the ad sales person representing the TV or radio station is going to entice an advertiser to buy spots.
Blogs pretty much work the same way. Except blogs' ad-worthiness is measured in the number of clicks on the blog..
But you are most likely correct in that many bloggers do not generate any type of compensation for their opinions.

[Dave Schwartz]

Simply put, fans that don't bet do not support the game. The industry does not derive revenue from them.

If you think that the business model is struggling now, what happens if the "fans of horse racing" take over the sport? LOL

IMHO the article is out to lunch. Enough so that I barely got past the title.

[Stillriledup]

Yes. Because TVG is owned by an online wagering company, the on camera talent is going to hawk the on line wagering facility TVG provides.
And what better way to accomplish that than to encourage wagers on more expensive horizontal wagers.

So you want your customers to lock up their cash into a pricey pick 5 ticket at 14 pct takeout rather than just releasing exactas in the first 5 races?

[rastajenk]

I think the writer is a chick who hasn't figured out who she's writing for. I think (s)he wants to have an edgy opinion, but is writing for readers for whom (s)he has to explain so much (in other posts I read) that they probably wouldn't recognize an edgy opinion in the first place.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of folks who work on the farms that are so invested in providing the sport with its athletes that they never get their heads around the gambling part. This could be one of them.

[Tom]

So you want your customers to lock up their cash into a pricey pick 5 ticket at 14 pct takeout rather than just releasing exactas in the first 5 races?

TVG is not a horse racing channel.
Their purpose is not to promote racing, only to make money.
Make THEM money, not you. They only want YOU to bet.

TVG is no HRTV.

[Stillriledup]

TVG is not a horse racing channel.
Their purpose is not to promote racing, only to make money.
Make THEM money, not you. They only want YOU to bet.

TVG is no HRTV.

My point was that they're leaving money on the table by doing it the way they're doing it.

[BombsAway Bob]

So you want your customers to lock up their cash into a pricey pick 5 ticket at 14 pct takeout rather than just releasing exactas in the first 5 races?
Yeah,it's much better to stab at 2-horse exactas at 22.68% takeout rather
than ride along on a Pick-5 with a 14% takeout.
Bottom Line: If you're playing someone else's selections, Buyer Beware!

[Stillriledup]

Yeah,it's much better to stab at 2-horse exactas at 22.68% takeout rather
than ride along on a Pick-5 with a 14% takeout.
Bottom Line: If you're playing someone else's selections, Buyer Beware!

It's better for YOU. I'm talking about what's better for TVG, and releasing exas is better for them because of the takeout and people don't have their money locked up for 5 races.

[sharkie187]

Interesting, my wife and I were watching TVG Meydan coverage on Thursday (both home incapacitated by the flu), and she can't understand what the people who go to races in Dubai get out of it since they can't bet? I guess that's a good point, though I did tell her that I used to go to the track all the time and not wager (but that was only because racing officials were prohibited from gambling).

I was stationed in Turkey when I made my one and only trip to Dubai in 2009...let me tell you, it's a TOTALLY different world when it comes to racing. Its about the glamour and to be seen with and rub elbows with the stars/celebs that attend.
Yes, you cannot bet on the races per say. But there are always ongoing competitions where you pick a horse, and if it comes in, you are entered into a drawing for a prize. There's even a pick 6 competition where you pick one horse from the last six races and if you pick them all correctly, then again you are placed into a drawing for some luxury prizes.
In the huge grandstand, where you expect to see tellers, its just seating, food stands, and TV monitors. And depending on what part of the grandstand you are, there is also a bar but you strictly warned where you can and cannot drink and who cannot see you drink (esp locals).
What a lot of foreigners do (mostly the Brits, Irish, and Americans) is call in their bets to their bookie back home. It was pretty expensive for me to constantly call back to place my bet on Xpressbet since they only offered a 1-866 number whereas the British bookies offered a regular landline number. Apparently theres also an underground wagering system in some of the major hotels set up by the Brits, but that could just be a rumor. I only stayed at or near the track.

[thaskalos]

The author of this piece is no-doubt an idiot, who, even though he doesn't know the first thing about horseracing...insists on putting his uninformed opinion on public display...so all could see how thoughtless he really is. How a man like this is writing a horseracing-related blog is mind-boggling...and blogs like his do more "damage" to the proper promotion of this game than the TV horse racing channel that he rails against. There isn't a single point in his entire article that has even a speck of validity...IMO.

Our sport isn't NASCAR, and it can't be broadcasted as NASCAR is. When the races end in less than two minutes...there is no time for the announcers to be "more colorful as the race is going on". Nor is there much time for extensive interviews in-between races...because the next race is only minutes away.

He compares TVG to the football broadcasts...and blames the racing channel for "confusing" its viewers with all the numbers that are scrolling along the bottom of the screen. "Football doesn't do that"...he says. He forgets that football's existence doesn't rely solely on the wagers of its audience, as horse racing does. He also ignores the fact that the stock market channels have the exact same numbers scrolling on the bottom of their screens...and no one has ever blamed them for unnecessarily confusing their audience. It should be obvious even to the merest tyro that horse racing is a lot closer to the stock market in purpose and content, than it is to football and NASCAR broadcasting. And, what are those numbers that I see constantly scrolling along the bottom of my screen during football games? Aren't they the constant score updates of the other games...along with every conceivable fantasy football stat in existence? Isn't that too an example of the unholy alliance between gambling and sport?

And...since Mr. Witt appears to be a stickler for the "appearance" of things...I'd like to suggest to him that his very blog is in direct violation of his exacting "appearance" standards. The typeface of his blog is done using very weak lettering...which irritates the reader. Other blogs out there use bolder lettering...thus projecting a much more professional appearance.

[Tom]

Agree 100% on your take of Mr. Wittless! :lol:

BTW, 1945 called - they want their font back!

[castaway01]

The author of this piece is no-doubt an idiot

You could have just stopped there.

[thaskalos]

You could have just stopped there.
I expanded a bit...just in case he happens to see my post.

[mannyberrios]

The author of this piece is no-doubt an idiot, who, even though he doesn't know the first thing about horseracing...insists on putting his uninformed opinion on public display...so all could see how thoughtless he really is. How a man like this is writing a horseracing-related blog is mind-boggling...and blogs like his do more "damage" to the proper promotion of this game than the TV horse racing channel that he rails against. There isn't a single point in his entire article that has even a speck of validity...IMO.

Our sport isn't NASCAR, and it can't be broadcasted as NASCAR is. When the races end in less than two minutes...there is no time for the announcers to be "more colorful as the race is going on". Nor is there much time for extensive interviews in-between races...because the next race is only minutes away.

He compares TVG to the football broadcasts...and blames the racing channel for "confusing" its viewers with all the numbers that are scrolling along the bottom of the screen. "Football doesn't do that"...he says. He forgets that football's existence doesn't rely solely on the wagers of its audience, as horse racing does. He also ignores the fact that the stock market channels have the exact same numbers scrolling on the bottom of their screens...and no one has ever blamed them for unnecessarily confusing their audience. It should be obvious even to the merest tyro that horse racing is a lot closer to the stock market in purpose and content, than it is to football and NASCAR broadcasting. And, what are those numbers that I see constantly scrolling along the bottom of my screen during football games? Aren't they the constant score updates of the other games...along with every conceivable fantasy football stat in existence? Isn't that too an example of the unholy alliance between gambling and sport?

And...since Mr. Witt appears to be a stickler for the "appearance" of things...I'd like to suggest to him that his very blog is in direct violation of his exacting "appearance" standards. The typeface of his blog is done using very weak lettering...which irritates the reader. Other blogs out there use bolder lettering...thus projecting a much more professional appearance.
You nailed it

[thespaah]

So you want your customers to lock up their cash into a pricey pick 5 ticket at 14 pct takeout rather than just releasing exactas in the first 5 races?
If you'd ask that question in another way other than starting it off with "so you want", I might be able to fathom a guess as to what it is you want to know.
I am just stating the facts. Not rendering an opinion or a viewpoint..

[Nitro]

I expanded a bit...just in case he happens to see my post.You're entire comment should be added directly to this guy's blog. (or if that's not possible due to its length then maybe just a link to this thread) I noticed there's an area at the bottom of the blog page for that purpose. Nice post! :ThmbUp:

[HalvOnHorseracing]

There are certainly things TVG could do better, even within the context of being a promotional site for Betfair, although I think blaming TVG for all of racing's woes doesn't hold water much more than blaming the Food Channel for America's obesity problem. Rather than NASCAR, I'd look more at the specific sport channels (NBA, NHL, MLB) for ideas. Biographical pieces on great horses. More in-depth interviews with major figures in the sport. Top ten lists. Best performances of the week - not just coverage of the big races, but really good performances. More coverage of important issues (e.g., decoupling). I think it might be interesting to do infomercials for racing products (e.g., Thorograph) as opposed to irrelevant informercials for herbal boner pills and workout videos. Perhaps a weekly show on what's going on internationally. Very often Americans are underprepared for the Euro invaders in the Breeder's Cup. Maybe simulated races with great horses in history - Secretariat vs Man O'War, Ruffian vs Zenyatta. Pure entertainment. Maybe some historical shows on great races with the participants, like you see on MLB when they do a show on the Mets/Orioles World Series with the guys who were in it. Maybe something more interactive with the fans. Talk about Nyquist vs Mohaymen in the Florida Derby with the fans. IF there is anything horseracing fans are good at, it is arguing about which horse is the best. Frankly, we occasionally might be able to do better than listening to an exclusive diet of the TVG personalities. There is almost a complete dearth of coverage/discussion of the negative aspects of the game - e.g., Gary Contessa's conviction for a cocaine positive or the shenanigans that seem to come up in Pennsylvania weekly. Maybe more shows on handicapping, from 101 to graduate level.

What are the biggest problems horseplayers have? The take tops the list, and while HANA works for horseplayers on the issue, there are no national outlets willing to cover that issue, even casually.

Perhaps TVG is never going to be the right venue for all things racing. Although it would be nice to find a single source for coverage AND other things.

One word on bloggers. Some of them are very good, and some of them do not depend on advertisers. And yes, some of them may have convinced themselves they have important things to say and can do it eloquently. It appears the folks at PA are pretty good at discerning which is which.

[sharkie187]

I expanded a bit...just in case he happens to see my post.
When he responded to my twitter response, I told him to come to this site to see EXACTLY what is being said! You nailed exactly what I was thinking!!!

[SandyW]

TVG is just like Churchill Downs, they know everything and nobody can tell them anything to help this game. It is very unfortunate that any helpful suggestions fall on deaf ears.

[Stillriledup]

TVG is just like Churchill Downs, they know everything and nobody can tell them anything to help this game. It is very unfortunate that any helpful suggestions fall on deaf ears.

They're not in this to help the game, they just want to help themselves. They are neither player friendly nor industry friendly.

[pandy]

Any track that has its races telecast on TVG 1 or 2 has higher handle than if TVG did not show its races. Some tracks might not be in business if not for TVG. One track I can think of is Cal Expo (harness). I'm pretty sure that Cal Expo would have closed its operations a few years ago if TVG hadn't started showing its races.

TVG needs the support of the racing industry and fans, because if Betfair ever pulls the plug on these two channels, it could be disastrous.

[upthecreek]

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/tv-racing-america-changing-and-its-bettor

[ebcorde]

This guy sees things via a different lens and everyone is howling. A lot of what he says is impractical but I think he's made some valid points.

example: I never watched cycling ever until last summer and I found it very watchable. The Cameras shots of the countryside was excellent.

[pandy]

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/tv-racing-america-changing-and-its-bettor


I doubt that XBTV ever gets on cable. They had HRTV and sold it.

[JimG]

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/tv-racing-america-changing-and-its-bettor

That was a good read. I have been following XBTV and will tune in with them when I am interested in SoCal racing. Free and available on the roku, appletv. etc. sounds good to me. Cable tv is a slowly dying business.

[Inner Dirt]

Is the picture on the page that article on of a real track and if so what one? From the view it looks like a bull ring with a turf course. It also looks way too fancy for a small track.

[JimG]

Is the picture on the page that article on of a real track and if so what one? From the view it looks like a bull ring with a turf course. It also looks way too fancy for a small track.

Santa Anita

[Inner Dirt]

Santa Anita

Seriously, now I am really baffled as I have been there many times but not for the last 10 years. I could not imagine any spot on the track looking like that.