AQ INNER TRACK SLOW OPENING QUARTERS

[NorCalGreg]

This was on that Simmstown thread---think people are tired of looking at that--so moved over to it's own thread.

Here's pretty much the gist of the discussion:



NCG:***--I'm not an AQ player, except for the MADDENING pick-4 contest, but one question to the board---

Since the inner track turns are tighter, isn't the run up, or gate placement-- to the turn, set farther back? What explanation is there for the abysmally slow first quarter splits in 6F's? Seems they would be faster, with the longer opening straightaway. Researched this a little on google--nada.

Anyone?

PANDY:***-The Aqueduct inner track can be misleading. It's slow and sometimes a :23.2 and :47 is actually fast, especially if it's a windy day. But generally speaking, NYRA keeps all of their tracks tiring. They are "sustained" tracks that favor horses that have class and can finish. So, the jockeys don't get into too many wicked speed duels because they know that you have to save something for the stretch. So. Cal is the exact opposite.

NCG***--Here's the 5th race from Sunday @ AQ--the BROADWAY. This is a real puzzler...incredibly slow first qtr, but the charting "reads" like a high-pressure 3-horse speed duel took place....with the winner COURT DANCER--barely hanging on for the win.

WILLET ran a very strong 23&change final qtr....but can you really credit Willet--since the opener was so slow?
There's another horse--MAKE THE MOMENT --that is sort of "hidden" in her very good closing run, since she didn't hit the board.
All in all--Pandy HAS to be correct---there's no other explanation.

--disagree? Let's hear it

[ultracapper]

This doesn't address the OP, but the race is interesting in that the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th place finishers came out of the same race, and even though their finishing order is different this time, the bettors nailed it. The horse that won the common race was relatively ignored this time, being a tepid 3rd betting choice to 2 horses she'd just defeated, and the bettors nailed it solid.

If the stretch call at Aqueduct is the 1/8th pole, and the chart caller got it right, Willet did indeed have an exceptional race in running that 5th furlong in 11 seconds flat. THAT'S FIRING, regardless of the opening fractions.

Edit: Noticed they were girls, so I changed he's to she's.
2nd Edit: I guess Willet officially did the 5th furlong in 11 and 1.

[NorCalGreg]

This doesn't address the OP, but the race is interesting in that the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th place finishers came out of the same race, and even though their finishing order is different this time, the bettors nailed it. The horse that won the common race was relatively ignored this time, being a tepid 3rd betting choice to 2 horses she'd just defeated, and the bettors nailed it solid.

If the stretch call at Aqueduct is the 1/8th pole, and the chart caller got it right, Willet did indeed have an exceptional race in running that 5th furlong in 11 seconds flat. THAT'S FIRING, regardless of the opening fractions.

Edit: Noticed they were girls, so I changed he's to she's.
2nd Edit: I guess Willet officially did the 5th furlong in 11 and 1.


I got (by the old-timey method--l/5=1 length)...11.2 & 11.3 on WILLET, but yeah that's moving fast. Now see, my handicapping...I sort of discredit a late move like that--based on the early fractions--which were putrid.

It's all relational---agreed? I figured out the "relational pace" theory--but there's nothing new in pace analysis--Col Bradley probably discussed this in the 30's.

I'm actually more interested in MAKE THE MOMENT ...she was very obviously
outgunned--but with this seemingly poor showing--she may be a good bet on the drop, next out.

[pandy]

There were a couple of horses that went fast early on Sunday and held surprisingly well. In the 7th, So. Cal invader Madam Aamoura went to the lead in :22 3/5 and bottomed the field out going a mile and 70 yds.

In the 9th race, Nicks Funnybone went :23, :46.3 in a NY bred maiden race and held the show. I'd bet that CJ's pace figures are through the roof high for these two horses.

[EMD4ME]

Yeah those bettors really nailed that race :rolleyes:

It's amazing how the winner got bet but the horse who went head and head with her last time was intent on not "going" today. Yes, it's amazing that the stake of the day went in 24 vs. much faster Q 1's for cheaper horses on the same card.

The legendary N3L claimer Gabby's Brown went 23 2/5.

Something tells me it wasn't the public that smashed this winner.

To answer your question NCG, I run up for 6F at AQU is mainly 20 FT VS. 48 on the main track.

[Dahoss9698]

The Broadway was a disgrace of a race. The stewards should have called all of the riders in after that race

[EMD4ME]

The Broadway was a disgrace of a race. The stewards should have called all of the riders in after that race

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

And to add to that.... After the Stewards call in all those jocks, I want all 3 stewards called in front of the horseplayer's. :)

[ultracapper]

I got (by the old-timey method--l/5=1 length)...11.2 & 11.3 on WILLET, but yeah that's moving fast. Now see, my handicapping...I sort of discredit a late move like that--based on the early fractions--which were putrid.

It's all relational---agreed? I figured out the "relational pace" theory--but there's nothing new in pace analysis--Col Bradley probably discussed this in the 30's.

I'm actually more interested in MAKE THE MOMENT ...she was very obviously
outgunned--but with this seemingly poor showing--she may be a good bet on the drop, next out.

Agreed

[thespaah]

This was on that Simmstown thread---think people are tired of looking at that--so moved over to it's own thread.

Here's pretty much the gist of the discussion:



NCG:***--I'm not an AQ player, except for the MADDENING pick-4 contest, but one question to the board---

Since the inner track turns are tighter, isn't the run up, or gate placement-- to the turn, set farther back? What explanation is there for the abysmally slow first quarter splits in 6F's? Seems they would be faster, with the longer opening straightaway. Researched this a little on google--nada.

Anyone?

PANDY:***-The Aqueduct inner track can be misleading. It's slow and sometimes a :23.2 and :47 is actually fast, especially if it's a windy day. But generally speaking, NYRA keeps all of their tracks tiring. They are "sustained" tracks that favor horses that have class and can finish. So, the jockeys don't get into too many wicked speed duels because they know that you have to save something for the stretch. So. Cal is the exact opposite.

NCG***--Here's the 5th race from Sunday @ AQ--the BROADWAY. This is a real puzzler...incredibly slow first qtr, but the charting "reads" like a high-pressure 3-horse speed duel took place....with the winner COURT DANCER--barely hanging on for the win.

WILLET ran a very strong 23&change final qtr....but can you really credit Willet--since the opener was so slow?
There's another horse--MAKE THE MOMENT --that is sort of "hidden" in her very good closing run, since she didn't hit the board.
All in all--Pandy HAS to be correct---there's no other explanation.

--disagree? Let's hear it
I looked at the TRAKUS data....
Court Dancer...24.01 23.37 11.40. 12.00 1:10.78
Willet... 24.31 23.35 11.28 11.92 1:10.90

[GatetoWire]

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

And to add to that.... After the Stewards call in all those jocks, I want all 3 stewards called in front of the horseplayer's. :)

Please explain why the stewards should have been involved in this race?
Did you look at the PP's?

Court Dancer was the lone speed.
Blithly was pushed forward to stalk her just outside.
Myfourchix was pushed forward beside her
Willet and Make the Moment were off the pace as usual.
Tricky Zippy has been in poor form, was off a layoff and as usual acted up at the gate.

It was a 6 horse field with only one pace horse. Were you expecting a fast pace?

[NorCalGreg]

Please explain why the stewards should have been involved in this race?
Did you look at the PP's?

Court Dancer was the lone speed.
Blithly was pushed forward to stalk her just outside.
Myfourchix was pushed forward beside her
Willet and Make the Moment were off the pace as usual.
Tricky Zippy has been in poor form, was off a layoff and as usual acted up at the gate.

It was a 6 horse field with only one pace horse. Were you expecting a fast pace?

LOL...you're seeing "NY WACK-JOBISM" at it's finest, wisconsin :lol:

You're horse doesn't win?--it's a conspiracy.

Very slow opening quarter?--jockeys and/or stewards in cahoots

I actually like these guys.....EMD is my favorite. They bring some color and intrigue ("intrigue" is probably not the right word)---to a once-mundane thread.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion---even this California wack-job--if not, this board would be a very boring place.

[ultracapper]

The characters on this board rival anything you'll see at the track.

I envision each one of you, at your keyboard, potato chip crumbs down the front of you, 2 day beard, burnt out lightbulb in the ceiling, room lit by a little desk lamp. Paper all over the desk, with a big tear in the upholstery of your office chair.

Shit, I'm looking in the mirror.

[NorCalGreg]

The characters on this board rival anything you'll see at the track.

I envision each one of you, at your keyboard, potato chip crumbs down the front of you, 2 day beard, burnt out lightbulb in the ceiling, room lit by a little desk lamp. Paper all over the desk, with a big tear in the upholstery of your office chair.

Shit, I'm looking in the mirror.


hahahahaha...swear I've been meaning to get a new chair! :lol:

[EMD4ME]

Please explain why the stewards should have been involved in this race?
Did you look at the PP's?

Court Dancer was the lone speed.
Blithly was pushed forward to stalk her just outside.
Myfourchix was pushed forward beside her
Willet and Make the Moment were off the pace as usual.
Tricky Zippy has been in poor form, was off a layoff and as usual acted up at the gate.

It was a 6 horse field with only one pace horse. Were you expecting a fast pace?

1) Did the Stewards take a look at the head on of the 1st 6 seconds of the race? The resident ring leader gave all of them an excuse (if ever called in by the absentee Stewards as he, as usual, came out 3 PATHS at the start. Iherd effectively gave the jocks of the 3 and 4 an alibi).

2) Did we expect a fast pace? Absolutely not. We didn't expect a super duper slow pace. Just a slow pace. Big difference.

3) Betting. What seemed like a 4 contender race was bet like a 1 horse race. It was bet as it if the 1 would lead, the 4 would act up (which Zippy does do a lot), Blithely would not be aggressively ridden and the pace would be ridonkulously slow.

FWIW, I only had pick 5's closing in that race, to the 1245. Closing payouts were similar. This is not about losing money or not making enough money etc.

It's about the integrity of the jockey colony.

I crushed Blithely in her 2 back race VS. the same only speed "Court Dancer".

Reason why I bet Blithely HEAVY on Jan 14? She was how do we say it..............in a politically correct fashion..........oh yes I got it....She was ridden "passively" in her Dec 17 and Nov 22 races. She was ridden with the intent to win on Jan 14 and did win Mano a Mano (aggressively chasing the lone spd/running the lone speed down with no help from anyone) vs. Court Dancer.

Ray Charles can see what's going on here as do all sharpies I talk to. Surprised you don't see the "elements" of this race.

[EMD4ME]

The characters on this board rival anything you'll see at the track.

I envision each one of you, at your keyboard, potato chip crumbs down the front of you, 2 day beard, burnt out lightbulb in the ceiling, room lit by a little desk lamp. Paper all over the desk, with a big tear in the upholstery of your office chair.

Shit, I'm looking in the mirror.

HEY!!!!!!!

I don't eat many potato chips :D :D :D :D :D

[EMD4ME]

Please explain why the stewards should have been involved in this race?
Did you look at the PP's?

Court Dancer was the lone speed.
Blithly was pushed forward to stalk her just outside.
Myfourchix was pushed forward beside her
Willet and Make the Moment were off the pace as usual.
Tricky Zippy has been in poor form, was off a layoff and as usual acted up at the gate.

It was a 6 horse field with only one pace horse. Were you expecting a fast pace?

Sorry, 2 more thoughts. I didn't expect Myfourchix to go or lead but your comment stupifies me.

Do horses get pushed forward with their mouths wide open, while their head is coiled inward? :rolleyes:

Blithely was pushed forward? Really?

Really?

Really?

Please rewatch the replay. Junior slightly pumped for a couple of strides and was a neck behind. Once he was too close, he went into the "massage but if asked I was pumping" ride from the end of the 1st 1/16 to the 1/2 mile pole. During his massage, Court Dancer opened 2 lengths in a 24 plus opening quarter and the race was effectively over.

Again, as Junior was "massaging" and losing ground, look who was sitting 3 wide with his horse's mouth wide open (being choked to death) and that horse's head/neck coiled inward to her chest....non other than the brother of the jock who was leading the race. What a shocker :rolleyes:

Please rewatch the Jan 14 race when Court Dancer and Blithely met. Blithely was ridden subtly more aggressively, which changed the Jan 14 race and this supposed "race" on Sunday.