Jocks not riding according to their chances

[Stillriledup]

I just bet a 5 horse field at GP and had a tri with the 6 horse to be 3rd, but the guy rode like was 8-5 and not 16-1. Did he not realize he was on a horse who was by far the longest shot in the race? What would have been so bad to relax in the back of the pack, make one move and try and win that way?

[deelo]

Mighta been told to push him. Hidden race.

[Mandrake]

Maybe the jock had a couple hunge on the 5-2-4.

[Kash$]

Its been a twitter war of words between Julien and Andy..

Andy critical of Juliens ride in the 4th

Julien replied please i got beat 20 Lengths not always the jockeys fault..

Caton Bredar jumps in and tweets maybe we should be critical of picks made by public handicappers..

Andy claiming JP hasnt been doing his job :lol: :lol:

Great stuff

[no breathalyzer]

Its been a twitter war of words between Julien and Andy..

Andy critical of Juliens ride in the 4th

Julien replied please i got beat 20 Lengths not always the jockeys fault..

Caton Bredar jumps in and tweets maybe we should be critical of picks made by public handicappers..

Andy claiming JP hasnt been doing his job :lol: :lol:

Great stuff


i really enjoyed that

[Stillriledup]

Its been a twitter war of words between Julien and Andy..

Andy critical of Juliens ride in the 4th

Julien replied please i got beat 20 Lengths not always the jockeys fault..

Caton Bredar jumps in and tweets maybe we should be critical of picks made by public handicappers..

Andy claiming JP hasnt been doing his job :lol: :lol:

Great stuff

Was the ride critique worthy?

[Kash$]

Was the ride critique worthy?
.

SRU the #2 couldve had Rudys juice and he wasnt winning

[v j stauffer]

Its been a twitter war of words between Julien and Andy..

Andy critical of Juliens ride in the 4th

Julien replied please i got beat 20 Lengths not always the jockeys fault..

Caton Bredar jumps in and tweets maybe we should be critical of picks made by public handicappers..

Andy claiming JP hasnt been doing his job :lol: :lol:

Great stuff

About time somebody other than me stands up to this whiny baby.

Good for you Julien and Caton.

He'd be well advised to choose his fights carefully.

It's one thing to trade barbs with has been gas bags like us.

Quite another to take on one of the most well respected and talented jockey's in the world.

An ambassador to our sport with a spotless record of class and integrity.

Be careful TLG. Get in the deep water with people WAY out of your class league and you might find yourself out of there in about 12 seconds.

[no breathalyzer]

I really like Bredar she is very sharp and i respect her opinion... that made that exchange even more enjoyable

[cj]

Same old tired thread SRU? Really? Get some new material already.

[cj]

I really like Bredar she is very sharp and i respect her opinion... that made that exchange even more enjoyable

Only problem is Andy's question was a legitimate one. How horseplayer's don't appreciate him is beyond me.

[Donttellmeshowme]

I just bet a 5 horse field at GP and had a tri with the 6 horse to be 3rd, but the guy rode like was 8-5 and not 16-1. Did he not realize he was on a horse who was by far the longest shot in the race? What would have been so bad to relax in the back of the pack, make one move and try and win that way?



My question is why are you betting into a 5 horse field?

[Donttellmeshowme]

Only problem is Andy's question was a legitimate one. How horseplayer's don't appreciate him is beyond me.




What most people fail to understand is only the jock knows what the horse feels like underneath. We can all play armchair QB but hes the only knows what the horse feels like. Maybe the horse took a bad step and he went to hurting down the lane and the jock wanted to protect the horse. Maybe the horse had some mucous in his lungs and couldnt breathe down the lane. Maybe he bled and had some blood in his lungs and could breathe. Maybe he flipped his soft palate. Maybe the trainer didnt do any vet work when he should have and the horse was hurting and couldnt put out. Hundreds of things could of gone wrong but we are so quick to say the jock didnt ride the horse to the wire when we dont know the whole truth.

[Tall One]

My question is why are you betting into a 5 horse field?

Checked to make sure nobody else asked before I posted.. :ThmbUp:

[Donttellmeshowme]

i really enjoyed that



Link?

[Baron Star Gregg]

What most people fail to understand is only the jock knows what the horse feels like underneath. We can all play armchair QB but hes the only knows what the horse feels like. Maybe the horse took a bad step and he went to hurting down the lane and the jock wanted to protect the horse. Maybe the horse had some mucous in his lungs and couldnt breathe down the lane. Maybe he bled and had some blood in his lungs and could breathe. Maybe he flipped his soft palate. Maybe the trainer didnt do any vet work when he should have and the horse was hurting and couldnt put out. Hundreds of things could of gone wrong but we are so quick to say the jock didnt ride the horse to the wire when we dont know the whole truth.

There you go making sense.

[Stillriledup]

My question is why are you betting into a 5 horse field?

I bet triples, so I bet a '60 horse field' ;)

[Stillriledup]

About time somebody other than me stands up to this whiny baby.

Good for you Julien and Caton.

He'd be well advised to choose his fights carefully.

It's one thing to trade barbs with has been gas bags like us.

Quite another to take on one of the most well respected and talented jockey's in the world.

An ambassador to our sport with a spotless record of class and integrity.

Be careful TLG. Get in the deep water with people WAY out of your class league and you might find yourself out of there in about 12 seconds.

I don't think Andy was looking for a fight, he's paid to analyze, seems like he analyzed. Instead of the jock saying ' you're right Andy ' he decided to take offense to the criticism instead of taking the critique and trying to use it to improve his riding.

[SuperPickle]

I'm solidly on team nobody here.

JL's ride was crappy. Yeah the horse lost by 20 lengths and yeah no one was beating Motion's horse but you still gave a crappy ride. How much you lost by is rarely a defense of a bad ride.

As far as Andy's concerned while I like him I think everyone on this board can agree they hate the guy at the track complaining about the ride he got on the horse that finished up the track. His comments are a huge eye roll. Yeah you got a bad ride on a bad selection

So why not both? It was a crappy ride on a crappy selection followed up with a crappy tweet!

[cj]

What most people fail to understand is only the jock knows what the horse feels like underneath. We can all play armchair QB but hes the only knows what the horse feels like. Maybe the horse took a bad step and he went to hurting down the lane and the jock wanted to protect the horse. Maybe the horse had some mucous in his lungs and couldnt breathe down the lane. Maybe he bled and had some blood in his lungs and could breathe. Maybe he flipped his soft palate. Maybe the trainer didnt do any vet work when he should have and the horse was hurting and couldnt put out. Hundreds of things could of gone wrong but we are so quick to say the jock didnt ride the horse to the wire when we dont know the whole truth.

Well, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Tweet that was mentioned here, not a thing. I don't think I've ever seen Andy accuse a rider of not riding to the wire even though it happens way more than it should.

[cj]

There you go making sense.

Are you his brother? How did his tweet make any sense given what is being discussed here? And if people don't know what is being discussed, why comment?

[Donttellmeshowme]

Well, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Tweet that was mentioned here, not a thing. I don't think I've ever seen Andy accuse a rider of not riding to the wire even though it happens way more than it should.



He was critical of the ride? What does that mean to you?

To me it means he didnt give his best effort? Maybe Juluien had reasons why he didnt give his best effort. We will never know. But we are so quick to judge or biatch about the ride we dont know the whole story.

[cj]

He was critical of the ride? What does that mean to you?

To me it means he didnt give his best effort? Maybe Juluien had reasons why he didnt give his best effort. We will never know. But we are so quick to judge or biatch about the ride we dont know the whole story.

Again, you are clueless here.

[whodoyoulike]

My question is why are you betting into a 5 horse field?

I also don't understand how it's a 5 horse field but is betting the 6 in a tri.

How about providing race # and date at GP?

Prefer a YouTube video if possible.

Is this the same race which TLG is criticizing the jock's ride and which jock?

[EMD4ME]

I also don't understand how it's a 5 horse field but is betting the 6 in a tri.

How about providing race # and date at GP?

Prefer a YouTube video if possible.

Is this the same race which TLG is criticizing the jock's ride and which jock?

Have you never seen a field of 8 scratched down to a field of 6, where the remaining runners are 345678?

[johnhannibalsmith]

You rarely see me bitching about rides, if anything I'm usually defending riders, yet I can't understand why certain has-been gasbags seem to take offense at any critique at all of them in the context of their performances. This is still a sport, right? Is critiquing athletic performances really only a function of the complainers' ineptitude at gambling? It's a good thing this sport is as unpopular as it gets because if it weren't it would be in short order the way critics are threatened with this passive aggressive nonsense about how their jobs should be in jeopardy for daring to mention this sacred cow.

Edited to mention that the premise of the original post was so stupid that I vowed not to post in the thread and breathe any life into it, so I guess I'll throw that in now as well.

[whodoyoulike]

Have you never seen a field of 8 scratched down to a field of 6, where the remaining runners are 345678?

How does that make it a 5 horse field?

[EMD4ME]

How does that make it a 5 horse field?

OMG you are SO DENSE it's unreal. It was a direct analogy.


OK, let's get it down to your level or AS YOU LIKE TO SAY: Since your reading comprehension is so low.......:

Have you ever seen a 6 horse field, meaning 123456, SSSSSS CCCCC RRRR AAAAA TTTT CCCCC HHHHH EEEEDDDDD down to a field of 5 AFTER the 1 is scratched?

In other words, the 12345&6 were meant to run. The 1 is scratched. We now have a 5 horse field consisting of: THE 2, THE 3, THE 4, THE 5 and THE 6.

Do we finally get it now?

Sorry to be such a jerk but for all your kind words over time ( :liar: ), you DESERVE this response.

[cj]

How does that make it a 5 horse field?

This has to be a "Who's on first act" right?

[whodoyoulike]

This has to be a "Who's on first act" right?

It appears that's where it's headed given his example in post#27 has 6 horses. And, the original OP stated a 5 horse field with no mention of scratches.

Also, I did request someone to provide info on which race and video if possible.

[whodoyoulike]

...

Sorry to be such a jerk but for all your kind words over time ( :liar: ), you DESERVE this response.

You really are.

[Stillriledup]

I also don't understand how it's a 5 horse field but is betting the 6 in a tri.

How about providing race # and date at GP?

Prefer a YouTube video if possible.

Is this the same race which TLG is criticizing the jock's ride and which jock?




Sorry about the lack of info, it was an early race today at GP, might have been the 3rd.

No, this isn't Andy's critique race.

[Tall One]

6 scratched to 5, but I see the frustration.

[Stillriledup]

6 scratched to 5, but I see the frustration.

3 favorites ran in the money, $0.50 tri still paid $30.70.

Race 3 at GP

[Tall One]

Race 3 at GP


Scrolled down too quick on the phone. Those were indeed race 4 prices, and I edited it.

My bad on the confusion.

[Donttellmeshowme]

Again, you are clueless here.


Just stick to making speed figures

[Dahoss9698]

About time somebody other than me stands up to this whiny baby.

Good for you Julien and Caton.

He'd be well advised to choose his fights carefully.

It's one thing to trade barbs with has been gas bags like us.

Quite another to take on one of the most well respected and talented jockey's in the world.

An ambassador to our sport with a spotless record of class and integrity.

Be careful TLG. Get in the deep water with people WAY out of your class league and you might find yourself out of there in about 12 seconds.
Be careful Vic. You keep acting a fool and no one is going to want to hire you.

Oh wait...

[Stillriledup]

He was critical of the ride? What does that mean to you?

To me it means he didnt give his best effort? Maybe Juluien had reasons why he didnt give his best effort. We will never know. But we are so quick to judge or biatch about the ride we dont know the whole story.

There shouldn't be a "whole story" jocks are paid to ride hard from point A to point B, they need to stop figuring out ways to do anything other than what they're out there to do.

[ultracapper]

Have you never seen a field of 8 scratched down to a field of 6, where the remaining runners are 345678?

I can't believe that had to be explained.

[ReplayRandall]

There shouldn't be a "whole story" jocks are paid to ride hard from point A to point B, they need to stop figuring out ways to do anything other than what they're out there to do.

You or I should probably start on thread on who are the more honest, hard working, straight shooting jocks at different tracks. Might be an interesting thread for the REASONS posters give to support their opinions.....

[ultracapper]

OMG you are SO DENSE it's unreal. It was a direct analogy.


OK, let's get it down to your level or AS YOU LIKE TO SAY: Since your reading comprehension is so low.......:

Have you ever seen a 6 horse field, meaning 123456, SSSSSS CCCCC RRRR AAAAA TTTT CCCCC HHHHH EEEEDDDDD down to a field of 5 AFTER the 1 is scratched?

In other words, the 12345&6 were meant to run. The 1 is scratched. We now have a 5 horse field consisting of: THE 2, THE 3, THE 4, THE 5 and THE 6.

Do we finally get it now?

Sorry to be such a jerk but for all your kind words over time ( :liar: ), you DESERVE this response.

I really can't believe you had to make a 2nd post to explain it further.

[cj]

Just stick to making speed figures


As moderator, I was pointing out that your post was way off base. It had nothing to with the discussion. Sorry it got your boxers riding into uncomfortable places.

[arw629]

About time somebody other than me stands up to this whiny baby.

Good for you Julien and Caton.

He'd be well advised to choose his fights carefully.

It's one thing to trade barbs with has been gas bags like us.

Quite another to take on one of the most well respected and talented jockey's in the world.

An ambassador to our sport with a spotless record of class and integrity.

Be careful TLG. Get in the deep water with people WAY out of your class league and you might find yourself out of there in about 12 seconds.

Why isn't he allowed to be critical of the jockey?

[Donttellmeshowme]

As moderator, I was pointing out that your post was way off base. It had nothing to with the discussion. Sorry it got your boxers riding into uncomfortable places.



It had everything to do with the discussion. The discussion was about the bad ride that JL supposedely had. I gave a few opinions on why i thought it might of been a bad ride. Sorry you didnt get my intentions.

[cj]

It had everything to do with the discussion. The discussion was about the bad ride that JL supposedely had. I gave a few opinions on why i thought it might of been a bad ride. Sorry you didnt get my intentions.


Well then by all means give them. Andy thought it was a bad ride strategy wise. It wasn't about not trying.

[Stillriledup]

The people who back Andy and support his right to critique industry participants is something I will always do. People who take their betting seriously and are supporting this game through the pari mutuels are lucky to have a voice who isn't afraid to tell the truth as he believes it to be.

Sensitive thoroughbreds that get throttled down and have their heads ripped off can 'quit' and lose by many more lengths than they would have otherwise. Andy's critique was for something this rider did before the rider (or anyone) knew He was going to lose by 20, getting beat a long way doesn't absolve the ride because if you think it absolves the ride you're essentially saying that you're allowed to ride poorly but only will feel criticism if the horse races well.

I have much more respect for industry insiders and commentators who aren't afraid to speak the truth the way they see it.

[v j stauffer]

Why isn't he allowed to be critical of the jockey?

He has every right to be critical of the jockey.

There have been times I felt he has implied that jockeys have given less than maximum effort.

He came on this forum and stated that was not true and I accepted him on his word.

My post today had nothing to do with his being critical.

I was speaking from experience that jockeys, especially high profile ones, have a pipeline to management that few enjoy.

I've seen instances where staff members who were critical of jockey's were told to think twice about continuing.

Not saying that will happen here. Julien is a big boy.

But I can assure you if it comes down to a pissing match between TLG and JL.

I'd advise the purchase of many place tickets on TLG.

[Stillriledup]

He has every right to be critical of the jockey.

There have been times I felt he has implied that jockeys have given less than maximum effort.

He came on this forum and stated that was not true and I accepted him on his word.

My post today had nothing to do with his being critical.

I was speaking from experience that jockeys, especially high profile ones, have a pipeline to management that few enjoy.

I've seen instances where staff members who were critical of jockey's were told to think twice about continuing.

Not saying that will happen here. Julien is a big boy.

But I can assure you if it comes down to a pissing match between TLG and JL.

I'd advise the purchase of many place tickets on TLG.

And this in a nutshell is what's wrong with the industry, jocks who won't be missed if they retire and contributing nothing to the pari mutuel pools would 'win' over someone who is betting, handicapping and educating not to mention that Andys comments create others to possibly play races they might otherwise have skipped, so he's creating betting handle in more ways than one and yet he's the guy who would be 'replaced' (according to you) for telling the truth just because a very replacable participant got his feelings hurt.

[Dahoss9698]

He has every right to be critical of the jockey.

There have been times I felt he has implied that jockeys have given less than maximum effort.

He came on this forum and stated that was not true and I accepted him on his word.

My post today had nothing to do with his being critical.

I was speaking from experience that jockeys, especially high profile ones, have a pipeline to management that few enjoy.

I've seen instances where staff members who were critical of jockey's were told to think twice about continuing.

Not saying that will happen here. Julien is a big boy.

But I can assure you if it comes down to a pissing match between TLG and JL.

I'd advise the purchase of many place tickets on TLG.

Someone, somewhere might believe this, but by now most have you figured out.

As someone who has been ostracized from the industry maybe you should have taken your own advice? What do you think?

[v j stauffer]

Someone, somewhere might believe this, but by now most have you figured out.

As someone who has been ostracized from the industry maybe you should have taken your own advice? What do you think?

I think you're #5

[bks]

He has every right to be critical of the jockey.

There have been times I felt he has implied that jockeys have given less than maximum effort.

He came on this forum and stated that was not true and I accepted him on his word.

My post today had nothing to do with his being critical.

I was speaking from experience that jockeys, especially high profile ones, have a pipeline to management that few enjoy.

I've seen instances where staff members who were critical of jockey's were told to think twice about continuing.

Not saying that will happen here. Julien is a big boy.

But I can assure you if it comes down to a pissing match between TLG and JL.

I'd advise the purchase of many place tickets on TLG.

The biggest issue with the insulting argument you're advancing here is that Andy, and by extension all of the bettors whose interests he is trying to represent, should simply understand and accept their subordinate place in the thoroughbred ecosystem. That's a ruinously false argument.

It's a long, slow process but in case you missed it, management is in the process of being voted off the island. The sport is a decaying corpse. Andy's efforts are praiseworthy in that they clearly aim at trying to revitalizing it. He seems to understand that the only means for doing so is to raise the game's integrity in the eyes of bettors.

There's a very simply reply to be made to Caton and Dottie and the other owner-affiliated media members: we know who's side your on. We know who you take to be your constituency. You're on the wrong team, though. This isn't some aristocratic fox hunt for which Leparoux had a mount.

If Leparoux was on an unstable or injured horse, there's a very, very simple means of making that clear: FILE A PUBLIC REPORT GIVING YOUR REASONS. Explain your actions, on the record, or else expect others will take you to task for them when they look prima facie suspicious. Your fidelity as a jockey (and trainer, for that matter) MUST be to the players, not the owners and not track management. It's the only way to take the sport back. I say this as a former owner.

Of course I understand the issues associated with that stance. Of course I recognize trainers and jockeys are mostly gutless employees (like the rest of us employees, and former employees, like you, Vic). And Serling's criticism, in a perfect world, would be better directed at management for tolerating this sort of performance by jockeys instead of the jocks themselves. But Leparoux treats Serling like he is making a ridiculous charge, which is itself absurd. And Leparoux is only looking out for his future business by staying silent. Worst of all, management is owner-aligned, and not player aligned, for the most part.

It's a long process, this shift. I completely applaud Andy for his work on this front. The game doesn't need owners in charge. It needs players in charge. That is the direction we're heading.

[NorCalGreg]

The biggest issue with the insulting argument you're advancing here is that Andy, and by extension all of the bettors whose interests he is trying to represent, should simply understand and accept their subordinate place in the thoroughbred ecosystem. That's a ruinously false argument.

It's a long, slow process but in case you missed it, management is in the process of being voted off the island. The sport is a decaying corpse. Andy's efforts are praiseworthy in that they clearly aim at trying to revitalizing it. He seems to understand that the only means for doing so is to raise the game's integrity in the eyes of bettors.

There's a very simply reply to be made to Caton and Dottie and the other owner-affiliated media members: we know who's side your on. We know who you take to be your constituency. You're on the wrong team, though. This isn't some aristocratic fox hunt for which Leparoux had a mount.

If Leparoux was on an unstable or injured horse, there's a very, very simple means of making that clear: FILE A PUBLIC REPORT GIVING YOUR REASONS. Explain your actions, on the record, or else expect others will take you to task for them when they look prima facie suspicious. Your fidelity as a jockey (and trainer, for that matter) MUST be to the players, not the owners and not track management. It's the only way to take the sport back. I say this as a former owner.

Of course I understand the issues associated with that stance. Of course I recognize trainers and jockeys are mostly gutless employees (like the rest of us employees, and former employees, like you, Vic). And Serling's criticism, in a perfect world, would be better directed at management for tolerating this sort of performance by jockeys instead of the jocks themselves. But Leparoux treats Serling like he is making a ridiculous charge, which is itself absurd. And Leparoux is only looking out for his future business by staying silent. Worst of all, management is owner-aligned, and not player aligned, for the most part.

It's a long process, this shift. I completely applaud Andy for his work on this front. The game doesn't need owners in charge. It needs players in charge. That is the direction we're heading.

Well said, bks :ThmbUp:

[Dahoss9698]

I think you're #5
Good answer

[Dahoss9698]

The biggest issue with the insulting argument you're advancing here is that Andy, and by extension all of the bettors whose interests he is trying to represent, should simply understand and accept their subordinate place in the thoroughbred ecosystem. That's a ruinously false argument.

It's a long, slow process but in case you missed it, management is in the process of being voted off the island. The sport is a decaying corpse. Andy's efforts are praiseworthy in that they clearly aim at trying to revitalizing it. He seems to understand that the only means for doing so is to raise the game's integrity in the eyes of bettors.

There's a very simply reply to be made to Caton and Dottie and the other owner-affiliated media members: we know who's side your on. We know who you take to be your constituency. You're on the wrong team, though. This isn't some aristocratic fox hunt for which Leparoux had a mount.

If Leparoux was on an unstable or injured horse, there's a very, very simple means of making that clear: FILE A PUBLIC REPORT GIVING YOUR REASONS. Explain your actions, on the record, or else expect others will take you to task for them when they look prima facie suspicious. Your fidelity as a jockey (and trainer, for that matter) MUST be to the players, not the owners and not track management. It's the only way to take the sport back. I say this as a former owner.

Of course I understand the issues associated with that stance. Of course I recognize trainers and jockeys are mostly gutless employees (like the rest of us employees, and former employees, like you, Vic). And Serling's criticism, in a perfect world, would be better directed at management for tolerating this sort of performance by jockeys instead of the jocks themselves. But Leparoux treats Serling like he is making a ridiculous charge, which is itself absurd. And Leparoux is only looking out for his future business by staying silent. Worst of all, management is owner-aligned, and not player aligned, for the most part.

It's a long process, this shift. I completely applaud Andy for his work on this front. The game doesn't need owners in charge. It needs players in charge. That is the direction we're heading.
Spot on. :ThmbUp:

[Mandrake]

Leparoux is the most overrated bigger name jockey in my book. He rides most races like he is in Deauxville or Chantilly. He's this years Edgar Prado, but with two killers to ride in the big ones. It's about time someone called him out for his lack of aggressiveness, he's been getting away with it for too long. Andy is ok in my book, he has the forum, good for him.

[Tall One]

Biancone put him on the map, if that tells you anything. He's an option to support on the lawn, but I wouldn't even glance his way on the dirt.

[Mandrake]

Turfway more so in my opinion, as it did for Bejarano.

[Tall One]

Turfway more so in my opinion, as it did for Bejarano.


Good point. I remember it being reported that JL expressed an interest in leaving Covington for a warmer winter climate, but Biancone encouraged him to stay.

Bejarano, you knew he was a short timer before he was bolting for greener pastures.

[Stillriledup]

The biggest issue with the insulting argument you're advancing here is that Andy, and by extension all of the bettors whose interests he is trying to represent, should simply understand and accept their subordinate place in the thoroughbred ecosystem. That's a ruinously false argument.

It's a long, slow process but in case you missed it, management is in the process of being voted off the island. The sport is a decaying corpse. Andy's efforts are praiseworthy in that they clearly aim at trying to revitalizing it. He seems to understand that the only means for doing so is to raise the game's integrity in the eyes of bettors.

There's a very simply reply to be made to Caton and Dottie and the other owner-affiliated media members: we know who's side your on. We know who you take to be your constituency. You're on the wrong team, though. This isn't some aristocratic fox hunt for which Leparoux had a mount.

If Leparoux was on an unstable or injured horse, there's a very, very simple means of making that clear: FILE A PUBLIC REPORT GIVING YOUR REASONS. Explain your actions, on the record, or else expect others will take you to task for them when they look prima facie suspicious. Your fidelity as a jockey (and trainer, for that matter) MUST be to the players, not the owners and not track management. It's the only way to take the sport back. I say this as a former owner.

Of course I understand the issues associated with that stance. Of course I recognize trainers and jockeys are mostly gutless employees (like the rest of us employees, and former employees, like you, Vic). And Serling's criticism, in a perfect world, would be better directed at management for tolerating this sort of performance by jockeys instead of the jocks themselves. But Leparoux treats Serling like he is making a ridiculous charge, which is itself absurd. And Leparoux is only looking out for his future business by staying silent. Worst of all, management is owner-aligned, and not player aligned, for the most part.

It's a long process, this shift. I completely applaud Andy for his work on this front. The game doesn't need owners in charge. It needs players in charge. That is the direction we're heading.

Fantastic post, sharper than sharp. I really enjoyed reading that. :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Journalists, reporters and commentators who have decided that THEY are 'insiders' and dont really see themselves as 'media' between bettors and the inside. Insiders don't poke or call out other insiders, they want to collect a paycheck and play nice.

If Bredar is going to call out Serling, she should do it only if she thinks Andy was wrong and it wasnt a bad ride and not call him out because of the truth hurting.

[EMD4ME]

I really can't believe you had to make a 2nd post to explain it further.

Thanks for sympathizing ultracapper.

BTW, speaking of jocks not riding to their chances, Emerald 2015 was the worst in terms of jockeys not riding like they should.

Do you happen to know if Julien Coupon is coming back in 2016? Or was his flee from Cali a temporary one because of what happened with his domestic abuse case?

Once he came to town, the games increased 10 fold. I want him out of EMD.

Who starts rating everything on a track that has 21 43 107's every frieken race card?

[Dahoss9698]

It should probably be noted Caton Bredar's husband is a jock agent. He represents Florent Geroux. I imagine Geroux and Leparoux are pretty friendly.

She like most other people in the industry is towing the company line.

[Stillriledup]

Someone, somewhere might believe this, but by now most have you figured out.

As someone who has been ostracized from the industry maybe you should have taken your own advice? What do you think?

Incredible post. Instead of the guy thanking you for your honest and great advice, he added you to an esteemed list of posters he will continue to 'ignore'. You're #5 apparently. Congrats and welcome to the club! :D

[Dahoss9698]

Incredible post. Instead of the guy thanking you for your honest and great advice, he added you to an esteemed list of posters he will continue to 'ignore'. You're #5 apparently. Congrats and welcome to the club! :D
We should get shirts made up.

"The biggest joke in racing blocked me on Pace Advantage"

[classhandicapper]

I'm not sure why gamblers are so anxious to ensure that every rider and every other every gambler knows there is/was a bias and adjusts their thinking to be more in line with actual conditions. I want to be in a position to toss some short priced horse because I know the rider will stay on the rail and then back the horse the next time out. I try to keep mental notes on which riders are especially good at picking up on biases quickly and adjusting their rides. I think (or hope) that gives me an edge. We all have different jobs to do to the best of our ability, but from my perspective as a gambler, the less my competitors (and a few of the riders) know the better.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'm going to guess that in this case it's because he's a paid analyst.

[classhandicapper]

I'm going to guess that in this case it's because he's a paid analyst.

Right. Andy and other paid analysts or public handicappers are going to do the job they are paid to do to the best of their ability as they see it. However, when I have some horse or value oriented angle, it doesn't help me or anyone else that put in the work when someone shares that info with everyone else. So I'd rather they weren't so good at their jobs rather than hope they do it even more. ;)

[ultracapper]

Thanks for sympathizing ultracapper.

BTW, speaking of jocks not riding to their chances, Emerald 2015 was the worst in terms of jockeys not riding like they should.

Do you happen to know if Julien Coupon is coming back in 2016? Or was his flee from Cali a temporary one because of what happened with his domestic abuse case?

Once he came to town, the games increased 10 fold. I want him out of EMD.

Who starts rating everything on a track that has 21 43 107's every frieken race card?

I don't know what his business was like in Nocal, but he could have a mount in every race at EMD if he wanted. Of course, the local media writes about 3 articles a year on Emerald Downs, so you won't learn anything that way. If I want to learn something, I go to the local OTB (the largest in the state) and talk to the guys up there. There are a number of owners and other in-the-know folks in there day after day. Next time I go in, I'll remember to ask around. Matter of fact, I have one of them running by the house in about 40 minutes now that I think of it. I'll see what he knows.

[NorCalGreg]

Incredible post. Instead of the guy thanking you for your honest and great advice, he added you to an esteemed list of posters he will continue to 'ignore'. You're #5 apparently. Congrats and welcome to the club! :D


It was a SUPERFECTA OF IGNORE.. It's now a QUINTINELLA.. or HI-FIVE maybe?

Welcome to the club, Dahoss

[EMD4ME]

I don't know what his business was like in Nocal, but he could have a mount in every race at EMD if he wanted. Of course, the local media writes about 3 articles a year on Emerald Downs, so you won't learn anything that way. If I want to learn something, I go to the local OTB (the largest in the state) and talk to the guys up there. There are a number of owners and other in-the-know folks in there day after day. Next time I go in, I'll remember to ask around. Matter of fact, I have one of them running by the house in about 40 minutes now that I think of it. I'll see what he knows.

I appreciate it Ultracapper. Yes, please let me know. Be well.

[EMD4ME]

It was a SUPERFECTA OF IGNORE.. It's now a QUINTINELLA.. or HI-FIVE maybe?

Welcome to the club, Dahoss

Oh paleeze. We all know he does actually read all 5 "ignored" poster's posts. He sometime responds to them. (without someone else quoting the "ignored" poster's post) :D :D :D

[Stillriledup]

We should get shirts made up.

"The biggest joke in racing blocked me on Pace Advantage"

I love the T shirt idea!

[the little guy]

Capital Letters, the infamous dead rail horse, made his first start since all the hubbub today. He won by four plus lengths and paid $7.80.

Shocking.

[EMD4ME]

Capital Letters, the infamous dead rail horse, made his first start since all the hubbub today. He won by four plus lengths and paid $7.80.

Shocking.

Vindication ..... :ThmbUp:

[thespaah]

I just bet a 5 horse field at GP and had a tri with the 6 horse to be 3rd, but the guy rode like was 8-5 and not 16-1. Did he not realize he was on a horse who was by far the longest shot in the race? What would have been so bad to relax in the back of the pack, make one move and try and win that way?
The trainer knew you bet on his horse. So he told the jock to screw the horse to make you lose......
Now, in case you did not recognize that as an absurdity, it is. I used it to make a point.
Look, you are making wagers. A wager is a speculation on future results based on past performances. it is NOT an exact science. And of course a significant amount of risk is involved.
I am not lecturing here. i am trying to point out the waste of time in posting these threads which appear to be out of frustration with losing bets.
No one likes when they lose a bet. We get real pissed when we perceive a less than stellar performance that caused us to lose the bet(s).
Most of of accept these things. And I know this because we keep going back to bet more.

[Stillriledup]

The trainer knew you bet on his horse. So he told the jock to screw the horse to make you lose......
Now, in case you did not recognize that as an absurdity, it is. I used it to make a point.
Look, you are making wagers. A wager is a speculation on future results based on past performances. it is NOT an exact science. And of course a significant amount of risk is involved.
I am not lecturing here. i am trying to point out the waste of time in posting these threads which appear to be out of frustration with losing bets.
No one likes when they lose a bet. We get real pissed when we perceive a less than stellar performance that caused us to lose the bet(s).
Most of of accept these things. And I know this because we keep going back to bet more.

Of course it's frustration when you have the right horse and the human screws it up.

[thespaah]

This has to be a "Who's on first act" right?
"The guy that plays first base. What's HIS name"
"Oh no what's on second"
:lol:
Classic stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg
enjoy!

[EMD4ME]

"The guy that plays first base. What's HIS name"
"Oh no what's on second"
:lol:
Classic stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg
enjoy!

Well...... :lol: At least you gave Whodoyoulike the youtube video HE REQUESTED :D :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[EMD4ME]

Capital Letters, the infamous dead rail horse, made his first start since all the hubbub today. He won by four plus lengths and paid $7.80.

Shocking.

I would Tweet to Lepa and Caton and ask for an apology, dead serious.

Then again, looking at Lepa's terrible under achievement as a rider, I'd say recognizing constructive criticism is not one of his strong suits.

[thespaah]

Of course it's frustration when you have the right horse and the human screws it up.
Which begs the question...how can you be so certain you had the 'right' horse?
Look, anyone who bets these things can make an educated observation and recognize a less than satisfactory effort.
Such a case was ( I forget the jock's name) on the favorite in the Tampa Bay derby. I started a thread on that. My gripe was how in the hell could a guy on a dead closer and had a ton of horse allow his mount to get trapped on the rail..
Ok that's a little different. We're talking about a potential top KY Derby contender. Not a claimer.....

[Stillriledup]

Which begs the question...how can you be so certain you had the 'right' horse?
Look, anyone who bets these things can make an educated observation and recognize a less than satisfactory effort.
Such a case was ( I forget the jock's name) on the favorite in the Tampa Bay derby. I started a thread on that. My gripe was how in the hell could a guy on a dead closer and had a ton of horse allow his mount to get trapped on the rail..
Ok that's a little different. We're talking about a potential top KY Derby contender. Not a claimer.....


I want the chance to know if I had the right horse or not, when you're riding a bomb like a favorite, my chances go down the drain.

[v j stauffer]

I want the chance to know if I had the right horse or not, when you're riding a bomb like a favorite, my chances go down the drain.

Actually most trainers would prefer the jock was oblivious to the odds and rode their horse with supreme confidence. Like you would with a favorite.

Chances and odds often times have nothing to do with each other.

[Stillriledup]

Actually most trainers would prefer the jock was oblivious to the odds and rode their horse with supreme confidence. Like you would with a favorite.

Chances and odds often times have nothing to do with each other.

I said odds but meant chances. I agree with you that you want a confident jock even on a 50-1, but i would rather have my jock be a student of handicapping and know his chances inside and out rather than just be 'oblivious' to his competition and how his mount stacks up in the race.

[EMD4ME]

I said odds but meant chances. I agree with you that you want a confident jock even on a 50-1, but i would rather have my jock be a student of handicapping and know his chances inside and out rather than just be 'oblivious' to his competition and how his mount stacks up in the race.

I miss Ramon :(

[Robert Fischer]

I'd be happy if jocks rode heavy favorites correctly.

When a horse is 5 lengths best, don't risk trouble by drafting inside traffic on the backstretch... Or some other such attempt at pulling off a 'great' ride.

[Stillriledup]

I'd be happy if jocks rode heavy favorites correctly.

When a horse is 5 lengths best, don't risk trouble by drafting inside traffic on the backstretch... Or some other such attempt at pulling off a 'great' ride.

I'm glad when they mess up heavy favorites because it's more likely than not, I'm betting against them. A lot of my wagers surround long priced horses to finish 3rd or 4th, so when a jock doesn't realize he can't win, he puts that longshot in an aggressive position, and when he's beat for the win, he doesn't hold minors either, more of an all or nothing ride. I would prefer a more conservative approach as a longshot and let other guys battle it out, ride like Eddie D when you're on a bomb and take advantage of others aggression.