Aspiring handicapper?

[MV McKee]

Just wondering if anyone on here has been through the same, or a similar situation.

My son recently turned 18, and just graduated from high school.
Obviously he is aware of dad's handicapping fetish, and has expressed some degree of interest in learning more.
I started playing the races when I was in college, and 18 years old, but that was 1980. My son was born in 1986, so by the time he became a part of my life, I was fully immersed in handicapping.
He is and was aware that for a time the family was supported solely by horseracing income. We have been on a number of vacations that were (in essence) paid for by racetrack investment activities.
Now, he is (to some extent) aware of the time and effort commitment involved in playing successfully, if only through observation. Unfortunately, I feel both my wife and I have shielded him somewhat from the downside of this avocation.
This isn't 1980 anymore, and if I had turned 18 and gone to the track for the first time in 2004, I seriously doubt that I would have had the relative success early on today that I did in the early 80's (let's face it, it was not as difficult to turn a profit 20 years ago).
This weekend, I am taking him on his first trip to the racetrack as an "of age" pari-mutuel participant.
Just curious if anyone else has been down the same road before, either as the parent or the offspring.

[chickenhead]

I don't have much to offer, I grew up around a track, but I would say the bug bites some people and not others, hard to predict who when and why. It does appear to be somewhat hereditary.

I assume he is playing with his own money, once he drops a few bucks he will begin to understand the downside well enough and make up his own mind.

That said, have a great weekend!

[Valuist]

I took my daughter to see Sea Biscuit and it inspired her so much she said she wanted to be a trainer. I told her if she wanted to become a trainer she better study chemistry hard. I think that one went over her head. But like most 12 year olds, the horse-trainer thing lasted about 2 weeks. If I turn TVG on she goes into the other room.

[headhawg]

Originally posted by Valuist
...I told her if she wanted to become a trainer she better study chemistry hard...

Good one. :D

[Suff]

Review the top 3 finishers (or 4 in fields of >11). Review each one carefully after each race or when You get home at night....

Determine what was it in thier PP that justifiedf the Finishing spots. The Chalk will take a minute or less. Horses greater than 10-1 that finish in the top three that are reviewed thoroughly will greatly expand his understanding of what "Handicapping' really is.


Great sport.. when Played Properly and Responsibly it will bring him a Life time of pleasure.

Handicapping = The Thinking Mans Game

Good luck and enjoy your son

[WINMANWIN]

Times have changed indeed, I remember years ago my dad used to take me to the track, and I was hooked for life, I was wagering when I was 12 years old:o This game takes so much discipline,
we know we cant hit all the races, but we can hit some races, and thats the key, To wager on the races that we have a good feel for, and CASH......;) McKee, if your holding your own gambling
now and then, and know how tuff the game can be nowadays, I suggest you keep it, as a days outing with him. The last thing you want him to do, is get wrapped up in horse racing, He's just starting life, it may deter from his primary goals, and if the
goals are to be a CAPPER:eek: that would be disappointing.
A day out with pops is kinda nice with the OLD MAN, but wagering
many a day without sound career objectives, can be very detrimental. I Experienced many highs and lows in this game, and
to be honest, many more LOWS, I wont go into war stories, but
you dont need many of us preaching, you know the real deal.
TUFF GAME, YOU LEARN EVERY DAY ! for Enjoyment every once in awhile, its GREAT, but trying to EEK out a PROFIT MTHLY, can be
a Huge BELLYACHE:mad:

[Suff]

Originally posted by WINMANWIN
a Huge BELLYACHE:mad:


Thats better than a "heart ache" .,,.. at least for you?

How's your command central doing? Pumping away?

[WINMANWIN]

Originally posted by Suff
Thats better than a "heart ache" .,,.. at least for you?

How's your command central doing? Pumping away?


Heart is O.K. I think, tks for asking;) It was pumping real well
after todays 4th when I caught SMOKING SYLVIA :cool: Trainer Schettino ran a couple today, I bet him in the 2nd, no dice,
did have the Kelly 1s'ter though in DD's. This unknown Jock named Richards was aboard 1st time out, PRADO TODAY,
SMOKIN SYLVIA WON $24, BUCKOS...Oh McKee, dont forget to TELL the kid the 3 definites in LIFE ! ;) DEATH, TAXES, and JOCKS
NEVER PASSING APOLY !:D

[penguinfan]

My wife would kill me for this advice as she says our kids will never gamble a nickle, but I think anything can be done correctly or incorrectly and that includes handicapping, which is not to say winning or losing I mean betting over your head and getting into trouble. My wife has a friend who abuses the death out of her credit cards, her and her husband are hopelessly in debt because of it, like 20K+:eek: People view credit cards alot less evil than gambling, but I have never been in that far, not even close, so what's worse, well neither, it's all in how you use either one. I could easily stick that much gambling, especially the way I was going recently which would make my hobby very bad for me and my family, I keep it in moderation, which is the key to everything in life.

[Zman179]

Sorry, but if I had a son/daughter, I would keep him/her as far away from gambling as possible.
If he/she were to find an activity to gamble on on their own, then so be it. But I'll be damned if I create the possibility of having a vice.

[sq764]

One of my good friends has a child who is 6 now.. When she was like 3, he used to have TVG at home and would watch the races. She would sit in front of the tv and point to the numbers. She actually learned how to count from TVG! Seriously..

What's funny is after a while, you could stop over and say "Hannah, what color is #2? It's blue.. What color is #6? It's Yellow"

[JustMissed]

Not to cause you a sleepless night, but if you son turned 18 in 2004 he probably has already:

Smoked cigaretts

Smoked pot

Got laid

Got drunk

Got a good handle on how to hid all the above from his dad.

He can handle a little betting and fun at the track.

If you get cable in your home you might want to turn on MTV and see what the kids are into today....Oh, if I could only turn back the clock.

JM

;)

[sq764]

And I am 31 now, married and my wife is pregnant.. He is probably getting laid 10 times more than me right now :-)

[chickenhead]

McKee is having a loooooong talk with his son right now......;)

[sq764]

And probably just cracked open his 12th Bud Light of the night

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by WINMANWIN
Heart is O.K. I think, tks for asking;) It was pumping real well
after todays 4th when I caught SMOKING SYLVIA :cool: Trainer Schettino ran a couple today, I bet him in the 2nd, no dice,
did have the Kelly 1s'ter though in DD's. This unknown Jock named Richards was aboard 1st time out, PRADO TODAY,
SMOKIN SYLVIA WON $24, BUCKOS...Oh McKee, dont forget to TELL the kid the 3 definites in LIFE ! ;) DEATH, TAXES, and JOCKS
NEVER PASSING APOLY !:D

I had that Kelly firster as well. Probably because Kelly hasn't done well with firsters (he was 0 for 18 going into that race, wasn't he?)

BUT, the sire of that horse hits at a 21% rate with firsters!!! In a field full of firsters that didn't even come close to 21%, that was a no-brainer bet.

[WINMANWIN]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I had that Kelly firster as well. Probably because Kelly hasn't done well with firsters (he was 0 for 18 going into that race, wasn't he?)

BUT, the sire of that horse hits at a 21% rate with firsters!!! In a field full of firsters that didn't even come close to 21%, that was a no-brainer bet.


Yes I considered that PA, and also Sunday he had a 1st'er that took a bunch of money with bullet works that didn't run much.
Its a guessing game many times. Trainer runs 3 or 4 on the day, they figure in every race, when do we use them :confused:
Same with jocks, Jock has 7 mounts on the day, you play them in 3 races at low odds, you go off them and WHAMO, they bring in
a long ONE:mad: Thats the mental anguish us cappers endure daily.

[PaceAdvantage]

My prior reply didn't make much sense in that second sentence. I had meant to say he went off at a nice 4-1 price, "Proabably because Kelly hasn't done well with firsters lately....."

There, that makes more sense....I think???!! :eek:

[Macdiarmadillo]

The vice in it would be losing enough to jeopardize his well-being. You'll have to expose him to the down side, things like not being able to hit up Dad when son taps out. He'll learn about losing streaks soon enough. He may well decide that racing is best left as a very casual hobby.

You know the kid better than we do. If the desire runs in the blood to play seriously and well, it'll be a measure of his own personality and character on how much education he wants to acquire about the whole process, how much pain and disappointment he can take in the process. He's expressed the desire so the genie is out of the bottle. And you've asked the question here so the answer isn't a flat "no" at this point. Teach him well if you can (not being sarcastic, some us are just not good being teachers to all types of students) -- he'll have to be a good student besides. And if it's just a desire for him to become successful at a casual hobby, you should be glad to know he won't go out with a fake tout sheet, fling money around, and expect big bucks to fall in his lap.

[superfecta]

Originally posted by Zman179
Sorry, but if I had a son/daughter, I would keep him/her as far away from gambling as possible.
If he/she were to find an activity to gamble on on their own, then so be it. But I'll be damned if I create the possibility of having a vice. It may be semantics,but isn't life a gamble in general?Deciding on your path is rarely solid,with no guarantees on even the most logical decisions.I would not forbid or deter my sons or daughter from gambling as a hobby or vocation,rather let them see as many aspects of it and let them form their own opinion.I was raised around trips to the dogtrack and Vegas and horseracing.I learned there are people that have no business at betting and have seen there can be profits made by diligence and discipline.And have seen there is little difference in the gaming industry and "legitimate" investment opportunites.

[dav4463]

I would be happy to have a kid who is interested in handicapping. It shows intelligence. Encourage the kid.

[KingChas]

Originally posted by Zman179
Sorry, but if I had a son/daughter, I would keep him/her as far away from gambling as possible.
If he/she were to find an activity to gamble on on their own, then so be it. But I'll be damned if I create the possibility of having a vice.

Perhaps the vice may be mathmatics.When I go to stores kid 's working there seem to have a hard time figuring out change for a $5 bill.Even when the cash register says $3.36!Maybe they could tell time too?Without the aid of a machine!

[acorn54]

getting involved in handicapping helped me immensely when i went to college and got my B.A. in accounting. alot of the mathematical processes involved in preparation of financial statements involves thinking very much along the lines of how we use numbers in handicapping horses.
guy (acorn)

[KingChas]

KUDOS ACORN!

[raybo]

I have an 17 year old son who has never been to the track. I've been handicapping since 1978 and have spent, over the years, many, many hours on the sport. Most of that time was late at night after the kids were in bed. Going to the track, back then, was like a vacation, before Texas allowed paramutuel horseracing. As my kids reached their teens and started "doing their own things" a little more, I began spending more time studying the game and eventually began doing it full time. My son, of course, noticed. At first he would just ask the simple questions one would expect a kid to ask, but as he got older and the concept of "money" and "jobs" finally dawned on him, he began to question me about the wagering side of the equation. I stopped him right there and told him that the wagering was the last thing that happened. Of course, he looked at me funny like he didn't believe me. You know, one of those, "Oh man, here we go again with the ,"You're too young to understand bit"". I recognized the look and grabbed a set of PP's and handed them to him and told him to start with that. Of course, it looked like Greek to him and he lasted about 5 minutes before he headed outside to play with his friends.

The last few months or so he has become interested again and will sit with me while I run my program or handicap races. He watches me wagering online sometimes and is beginning to undestand that this game is very unpredictable and financially dangerous for the unskilled and undisciplined.

I have a feeling that, come his 18th birthday, I'll be asked to take him to the track so he can see what the big deal is first hand. He will definately be betting his own money. I've warned him several times that this game will "eat your lunch" if you let it. I hope he never forgets that.

[First_Place]

JustMissed wrote:

"If you get cable in your home you might want to turn on MTV and see what the kids are into today"

I'll save you the trouble and tell ya. They're into aping blacks via cRap music, ghetto garb, ridiculous gang-type hand signals and unintelligible jive talk; encouraged to miscegenate, especially black males with white females; homosexuality, lesbianism and other deviant lifestyles are presented as normal and cool and those that oppose all of the above are ridiculed and portrayed as intolerant, close-minded, bigots, racists (...BIG YAWN...) etc.

Today's MTV is truly an abomination (and for some time now) and any parent that allows this shit into their home instead of blocking out this station is allowing their child's mind to be perverted and corrupted and is highly irresponsible and is guilty of child abuse.

Yes indeed, MTV is not the music video channel as was originally created back in the very early 1980s. It's been subverted and perverted big time.

FP

[GameTheory]

But if you block MTV, then you can't watch Punk'd.

[JackS]

And Pimp My Ride

[dav4463]

And those two girls on the last Real World were hot !!!

[Bubbles]

(Note: This post is not meant to be surly, nasty, or anything other than thought-provoking. If you take it this way, I apologize in advance.)

YA KNOW...

This thread, First_Place's post in particular, gives this generation a bad name. You guys did new things of your own when you were kids, only it involved hippie music, not MTV like us kids. And when you were young, your elders thought you guys were a disgrace.

I can speak for a lot of youths right now in saying that being stereotyped bites.

"Oh, you kids are fat."
"Oh, you kids are into the wrong music."
"Oh, you kids today don't know what work is."

And then, when a good one comes along, the stubborn people say it's a fluke. Well, the truth is that this generation is going to be faced with cleaning up the mess you guys left behind. Joy...

[chickenhead]

Bubbles, I'm not a whole lot older than you, but I look at an awful lot of kids today and just shake my head, not at them but at their parents. I don't really blame kids too much for being morons, I blame their parents. They're just too busy making money or being self interested to care very much I guess.

Kids are on average overweight (ditto for adults).

Kids on average do listen to crap music.

Kids on average don't know what work is.

Those aren't stereotypes, they are the truth!

[Bubbles]

chickenhead...

Understand where you're coming from. But if you just take a look now at how kids are doing in OTHER areas, such as academics, they don't exactly signify inferiority. My high school, with 2,500 students, has Advanced Placement courses galore, many times with multiple courses per subject due to the amount of honors students.

Not nearly enough is written or reported about the positive things this generation does. As I stated earlier, we're gonna be cleaning up the mess the previous generation is currently leaving behind. Wouldn't you prefer to hear about our positive qualities than about the latest wonder of the "Lost Generation?"

[chickenhead]

I'm glad to hear kids are doing well in some areas, obviously the "yutes" have a lot to contribute, my generation, your generation, all generations...lots of work to be done.

You're right though, it's a cycle, when you're older, you'll be bagging on the youngsters as well.....don't sweat it.

[PaceAdvantage]

Every younger generation says that they're the ones who are going to have to clean up the mess left behind by the "elders"

And every older generation invariably cries out that we are leaving our children a horrible legacy.....

Somehow, life moves smoothly onward.....

[dav4463]

to quote "The Who"

"The Kids Are Alright"

Somehow the kids always survive the parents, and for the most part they're "alright".

Encourage him, after all, somebody has to pick horses in the future don't they ?

[raybo]

I'm 55, so I have no axe to grind concerning today's youth. They're no different than we were at that age. They are only following the path we laid out for them. They didn't start pornography, or bad song lyrics, or heavy metal music, or disrespect for the establishment, or any of the other things they're being saddled with, we or previous generations began all those things in the past. I don't know who produces or directs MTV but I'd be willing to bet that it's not some "punk" kid.

[MV McKee]

Well, the trip to Emerald and the maiden voyage into a racetrack provided my 18 year old with a very serious lesson in money management.
I chose Saturday June 26 as the day (instead of the original planned Sunday the 27th) because I had 5 extremely solid plays for that day (as opposed to Sunday when I only had 2).
We had Mariner's tickets (we called them Padre's tickets, but that’s another story) for Saturday night. Anyway, the game didn't start until 7:00 pm, so I figured we'd just leave early and do EmDowns and the Mariner's in the same day.
So on Saturday I had 5 very solid plays, in races 5,6,8,9 and 10.
My son had $100, and on the way up I explained to him some of the basics of money management, the primary point of which was "it's OK to play a little on the races you don't have a strong opinion on, but make sure you bet more on the races you feel strongly about". I certainly didn't expect him to sit out his first "legal" race, but apart from the basic advice I left him to his own devices/strategy. Anyway, I am sure most of you have a vague idea of what happened (3 of the 5 "strong" plays we were there to bet won, but remember, they were late in the card.
Here is a race-by-race recap of his bets, and what I am guessing was his rationale:

Race 1: "This isn't one of dad's strong plays, and I only have $100. There are 10 races, and dad said to only bet a little and save for the good races, so I'll just bet $10 (100/10)"

Bet:$10 win #1 at 4.0-1
Result: 3rd
Bankroll:$90

Race 2: " Hmm, dad says the 7 looks really hard to beat, but that the odds are way too low to bet, but the 2 has never run before and has good parents. I think I'll sneak in another small $10 bet while he's at the beer stand"

Bet:$10 win #2 at 3.7-1
Result: 3rd
Bankroll:$80

Race 3: "Dad doesn't like this race either, and he's back at the beer stand. Why didn't we just show up later? Well, he said that the 4 sucks the least of all the horses, but that he doesn't think the horse wants to win. I don't think a horse is smart enough to know what winning means. I better stick with that $10"

Bet:$10 win # 4 at 2.5-1
Result: 2nd
Bankroll:$70

Race 4: "Another trip to the beer stand and dad says he's glad he handicapped the late races before we left Portland and that the hotel is only a mile away. I know he said he likes races 5,6,8,9 and 10, I just wish he'd told me which horses in case he passes out before then. Well, said he was gonna take a stab with the 7, hope he was talking about the horse and not his 7th beer."

Bet:$10 win #7 at 11.8-1
Result: 7th
Bankroll:$60

Race 5: “OK, this is the first big race. Dad says that this is the second best play of the day but that the odds are kinda bad. He also said to make sure I kept money because the 1st 4 may lose and the 5th one would win, and I need to make sure I still have money to bet on it. I said that all 5 could lose too. He said it doesn’t matter then, does it. Neither Todd or I understood what that meant, he’s getting cut off. Damn, I can only bet $12 on this one if I want to bet the other 4.”

Bet: $12 win #4 at 3.4-1
Result: 1st
Bankroll: $102.80

Race 6: “Crap, why am I only a couple of bucks ahead? OK, dad likes this race and the horse id 10-1, I have $100 and only 4 races to go, I’ll bet $25.”

Bet: $25 win #7 at 8.0-1
Result: 4th
Bankroll: $77.80

Race 7: “Damn, that sucked. Dad and Todd are at the beer stand again, but they bet a trifecta before they staggered over there. Dad said the only things he knew about this race was that the 2 would not win and the 5 would run 2nd or 3rd. I think I’ll bet the 5 to place and show.”

Bet: $10 Place/Show #5 at 5.6-1
Result:5th
Bankroll: $57.80

Race 8: “We should have gone to EMP and seen the Hendrix stuff. OK, dad says this is the best bet of the day. I’ve got almost $60 left and 3 races. Dad says the only way the 5 can lose this race is if the 6 or 7 fall down at the start. I have no idea what that means, but if him or Todd have another beer they are going to be the ones falling down.”

Bet: $20 Win #5 at 5.1-1
Result: 1st
Bankroll: $159.80

Race 9: “Sweet, I wish I was 21, or that we were in Alberta. Ok, dad likes the 9 in this race, but that it is not as sure a bet as the last race. I better stick with the $20.”

Bet: $20 Win #9 at 6.7-1
Result: 1st
Bankroll: $293.80

Race 10: The inevitable “How long has this game been around?” mind cramp.
“I think I would like to bet $100 on a race.” Welcome to the real world son.

Bet: $100 Win #3 at 3.2-1
Result: 6th
Bankroll: $193.80

All in all, it was a fun day, and bore a striking resemblance to my early wagering habits (or lack thereof). He actually impressed me with the way he took notes on a couple of races and actually wrote down his bets and kept a running balance and counted it against the money in his wallet. He said he bet $100 in the last race just so he could show his friends the ticket. No idea what he would have done if it had won.
I’m feeling like a proud papa, although the 7 Foster’s we consumed at the track disqualify me from any parent of the year awards.

[Bubbles]

Great documentation, MV. Best of luck to you and your son in future handicapping adventures.

[Dan Montilion]

Mike,

Let me get this right. Five suggested moves, three wins at 3, 5 and 6 to1. Seven Foster's and one ballgame... Would you and the Mrs. like to adopt a 43 year old son?

Dan (Is Hooter's hiring?) Montilion

[MV McKee]

Dan,

No more kids, but I believe the Mrs. is interviewing replacements for Raul the poolboy.
The 7 Foster's at the track and the 3 at the Padre's game had a lingering effect however, as my son thought it was hilarious to order bacon and eggs from room service the next morning and watch me wretch.
Another note, as a parent, you don't want to be in the same room when your son is on the phone at 1:00 am with his (Hooter's coworker) girlfriend 155 miles away. I got him back the next morning by asking "Are there any clean towels left?"