Weird Photo / Result

[Track Phantom]

I bet the first race at Western Fair today and, in full disclosure, had the #6 on top in a super (horse in the middle). I didn't have the rail runner (#1) or the outside runner (#5) on top but had them in second.

When I watched the race, I thought the outside runner won. When I re-watched it, I thought the #6 may have gotten it. I was not at all concerned about the #1 winning.

But, when the result came, #1 was posted first.

Now, it's hard to tell where the finish line is, but this is just wacky. I can't see how the #1 won this. Am I crazy or is the finish line before the lighted line on the track?

If someone can view this race or see the photo (which of course was not posted), I'd love another opinion.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae169/valento07/Wester%20Fair%20Photo_525x432_zpsrrbeomwe.jpg

[EMD4ME]

I just watched their replay on Twin Spires. I find it amazing that the camera person immediatey zoomed in and stayed on the 1. I find it amazing that they didn't even show a replay of the stretch drive. I find it amazing that the 1 even ran 2nd.

That's my 2 cents.

[Track Phantom]

The finish line must be in a goofy spot related to the camera because even the race caller called the #1. I'm pretty good at judging the winner during the running of the race and almost never get it wrong watching the replay. In this case, I had the #1 third. Wow.

[ReplayRandall]

I bet the first race at Western Fair today and, in full disclosure, had the #6 on top in a super (horse in the middle). I didn't have the rail runner (#1) or the outside runner (#5) on top but had them in second.

When I watched the race, I thought the outside runner won. When I re-watched it, I thought the #6 may have gotten it. I was not at all concerned about the #1 winning.

But, when the result came, #1 was posted first.

Now, it's hard to tell where the finish line is, but this is just wacky. I can't see how the #1 won this. Am I crazy or is the finish line before the lighted line on the track?

If someone can view this race or see the photo (which of course was not posted), I'd love another opinion.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae169/valento07/Wester%20Fair%20Photo_525x432_zpsrrbeomwe.jpg

http://www.westernfairdistrict.com/raceway/live-race-videos-replays

After viewing the replay a few times, it becomes apparent by the angle of light beam across the track, that the high caller's box camera angle is quite askewed. The :1: Radar Song's nose hits the light beam reflection from the track surface before the :6: hits the light reflection in his path....4:15 mark of replay, gives lower camera angle which looks like correct call.

[wisconsin]

The announcer even called the winner. Where is a shot of the track photo?

[Stillriledup]

You can go to western fair website, they have replays, watch the replay at 4:04 on the video, there's a low camera angle that has much diff perspective (it shows the 1 did win)

[VigorsTheGrey]

No You are not going crazy...I have noticed that about this track also...One time I watched it when a horse on the outside was posted as the winner when I could have sworn he got beat at least a length!

[EMD4ME]

What I am most shocked about is the handle in race 1.

Over $45,000.

If you would've told me it's $4,500, I'd say THAT is too much.

[EMD4ME]

Tracks like this and good ol yonkas, IMHO, purposely have a terrible angle.

[AlBundy33]

What I am most shocked about is the handle in race 1.

Over $45,000.

If you would've told me it's $4,500, I'd say THAT is too much.

Believe or not, Western Fair usually handles about $500,000 or so on Tuesdays.

[EMD4ME]

Believe or not, Western Fair usually handles about $500,000 or so on Tuesdays.

I'm happy to hear that. I don't follow harness at all. Glad to hear some good news.

[tanner12oz]

Nobody on tvg seemed to know where the finish even was and of course neither do the bettors..typical racing

[EMD4ME]

Nobody on tvg seemed to know where the finish even was and of course neither do the bettors..typical racing

Could you imagine an end zone with no marker?

A 100 yard dash with no finish line?

A marathon with no tape?

Home plate, with no.....wait for it............home PLATE!

Only in racing....To me, ground for immediate termination and retraction of all pension proceeds of all track executives. That'll teach their replacements to do what's right.

[Stillriledup]

If the camera is feet or yards BEFORE the wire, it distorts the angle making the outside look ahead when the horses are even (or inside is ahead)

I don't want to beat a dead rabid raccoon. But that Joel Rosario DQ last year at Belmont had a much more severe distortion due to the camera being off at an angle and yet, almost nobody seemed to understand the magnitude of the judges making a decision involving millions of dollars from a video replay that was useless.

[EMD4ME]

If the camera is feet or yards BEFORE the wire, it distorts the angle making the outside look ahead when the horses are even (or inside is ahead)

I don't want to beat a dead rabid raccoon. But that Joel Rosario DQ last year at Belmont had a much more severe distortion due to the camera being off at an angle and yet, almost nobody seemed to understand the magnitude of the judges making a decision involving millions of dollars from a video replay that was useless.

I agree with you SRU. Not buts. Just ANDs.


AND it's unacceptable that in today's day and age, we have incorrect camera angles.

AND why are head on replays NOT IN HD?

RTN has HD replays available but only for pan shots. Where are the head on HD replays being hidden?

[Dave Schwartz]

There is a big controversy over a photo and video difference posted at Paceadvantage. Could you intervene with this simple information?

ANSWER is simple: ONLY the photo finish camera is exactly PERPENDICULAR to the finish line. There are safeguards to that calibration that are checked just about each session with a set of 5 lines that will ONLY show up in the official photo is you are exactly 90 degrees to the finish line.


NONE, absolutely NONE of the pan cameras are under that same situation. You are seeing simple Parallex


signed the photo finish tech for the last 6 years at various tracks


Special Note:
I have received a request to post this reply from a long ago member of PA who was banned - 46Zilzal. Over the last several years I have come to see him as a fine man and, frankly, not at all what I and many others on here thought (based upon his posts).

[AlBundy33]

You guys think that's bad, you guys should see some old Sportsman's Park and Maywood Park finish line camera angles.

Thistle and Scioto also come to mind as well.

[Track Phantom]

The simplest explanation is most often the correct one and in this case the simplest explanation is the finish line camera angle, from our perspective, is out of line.

Fun that I tune in for one harness race and get treated to that rug tugging under my feet.

[ultracapper]

We had a big to-do on the board a couple months ago on a finish at one of the southwest tracks, Sunland, if I remember right. The camera had to be about 20 degrees in front of the finish line. It looked like the inside horse won by a length, when in fact he'd lost to the 7 path closer by a head. Horrible angle.

[Stillriledup]

At SRU Downs we have cameras right on the wire, if it LOOKS like you won.

You won.

[EMD4ME]

At SRU Downs we have cameras right on the wire, if it LOOKS like you won.

You won.

Well today at the BIG A, it was the classic example of them using the part of the glass (and the 1 pic of many) that THEY wanted.

Seems like everyone including people who are barred from wagering bet the 3. So when the 3 lost the 1st race, they salvaged their bet with a dead heat, all with the wonders of photo shop.

NYRA, one of the many tracks with NO FINISH LINE. Just a 6-9 inch long glass. (Which you can use any part of to manipulate your wanted results)

Go ahead. Blast away, mock.....But what I say is true.

[no breathalyzer]

Well today at the BIG A, it was the classic example of them using the part of the glass (and the 1 pic of many) that THEY wanted.

Seems like everyone including people who are barred from wagering bet the 3. So when the 3 lost the 1st race, they salvaged their bet with a dead heat, all with the wonders of photo shop.

NYRA, one of the many tracks with NO FINISH LINE. Just a 6-9 inch long glass. (Which you can use any part of to manipulate your wanted results)

Go ahead. Blast away, mock.....But what I say is true.



I been saying this for yrs!

[Stillriledup]

Well today at the BIG A, it was the classic example of them using the part of the glass (and the 1 pic of many) that THEY wanted.

Seems like everyone including people who are barred from wagering bet the 3. So when the 3 lost the 1st race, they salvaged their bet with a dead heat, all with the wonders of photo shop.

NYRA, one of the many tracks with NO FINISH LINE. Just a 6-9 inch long glass. (Which you can use any part of to manipulate your wanted results)

Go ahead. Blast away, mock.....But what I say is true.

I bet the 4 WPS and thought I lost filthy nose bob I'm happy w heater. ;)

[EMD4ME]

I bet the 4 WPS and thought I lost filthy nose bob I'm happy w heater. ;)

I bet $400 hundred into the pick 5 SINGLING THE 4 and got stuck with a horse that is paying $2.10 in the pick 5 all because THEY Had to cash their $2.20 ticket.

[EMD4ME]

I been saying this for yrs!
One of the dirtiest secrets of the game...

Don't care what anyone tells me (otherwise)

[Stillriledup]

I bet $400 hundred into the pick 5 SINGLING THE 4 and got stuck with a horse that is paying $2.10 in the pick 5 all because THEY Had to cash their $2.20 ticket.

There are really no dead heats its just that cameras they have can't get down to a billionth of an atom, someone won clean.

[EMD4ME]

There are really no dead heats its just that cameras they have can't get down to a billionth of an atom, someone won clean.


The camera has the ability (and does) to take countless pics in a short period of time. All they do is choose one that they like, place a super imposed BULLSHIT line over it and show it to the public as irrefutable proof.

If it's TOO CLOSE and they want a dead heat, they just make the superimposed line THICKER, so it covers up both of the horse's noses.

Sick of it.

[Stillriledup]

The camera has the ability (and does) to take countless pics in a short period of time. All they do is choose one that they like, place a super imposed BULLSHIT line over it and show it to the public as irrefutable proof.

If it's TOO CLOSE and they want a dead heat, they just make the superimposed line THICKER, so it covers up both of the horse's noses.

Sick of it.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103673&highlight=Dead+heat

[Stillriledup]

The camera has the ability (and does) to take countless pics in a short period of time. All they do is choose one that they like, place a super imposed BULLSHIT line over it and show it to the public as irrefutable proof.

If it's TOO CLOSE and they want a dead heat, they just make the superimposed line THICKER, so it covers up both of the horse's noses.

Sick of it.


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1443202&postcount=9

:lol:

[VigorsTheGrey]

I don't understand how they get that reverse mirror image of the horses at the finish. The glass/mirror tower at the finish line behind the spinning camera is only 6" to 8" wide and yet the developed photos show the complete length of the horses involved... I've even seen reverse mirror photo images of the entire field some 5 lengths apart from one another.....????

[Steve 'StatMan']

I don't understand how they get that reverse mirror image of the horses at the finish. The glass/mirror tower at the finish line behind the spinning camera is only 6" to 8" wide and yet the developed photos show the complete length of the horses involved... I've even seen reverse mirror photo images of the entire field some 5 lengths apart from one another.....????

The image is not a historic photo, but rather a continuously exposed/caputred image of what passes through a tiny slit that is focused in the line of the official finish. As the horses bodies pass through that focus line, the images of their bodies gradualy pass in front of the camera and recorded. The speed of the camera/exposure is sometimes changed for faster or slower horses so the moving images are captured so they can be clearly seen, rather than scrunched or greatly elongated as they pass by the finish line spot. Eventually all of the finishers pass through the line and are captured.

This explains why sometimes the horses legs apperar distorted in the photos, sometimes the gait of the horse leaves the leg parts exposed a little longer than other parts. Faster horses appear a bit scrunched, passing through the line more quickly. Slower horses and or legs in certain parts of stride will appear elongated or smeared. A human walking through the camera would be a terribly distorted blur as they pass through much slowly and get exposed onto more and more film/pixels.

[PaceAdvantage]

The ignorance displayed in this thread by certain people who supposedly bet their lungs out and are self-proclaimed winners is absolutely STUNNING.

You don't realize just how dumb you sound to people who actually know how the photo finish camera system works.

I'm not going to sit here and explain reality to you for the 1 BILLIONTH time on this website. This question seems to come up every couple of years, and every couple of years I have to sit here and hold the ignorant's hand and walk them through how it really works.

No more. The info is on the web and also on here if you truly care to open your eyes.

I don't really care anymore. You can continue to wallow in your ignorance while those who know better (hopefully, the vast majority) just sit here and shake our heads in utter amazement.