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fmhealth
02-10-2016, 09:59 PM
Tough beat to say the least! Not certain how I would have handled it.

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?123542-Bad-Beat-Jackpot-What-would-you-have-done

Dave Schwartz
02-10-2016, 10:23 PM
Wow.

Read a few responses. Liked the one about "quit smoking." Funny.

proximity
02-10-2016, 10:45 PM
i wouldn't mention anything but i'd certainly linger there for awhile instead of rushing off to another table where i could more conveniently be "forgotten."

how am i supposed to focus on a new game while watching if anyone's coming with my "rightful share" out of the corner of my eye?

it's hard to believe that the whole table would stiff the guy though at any kind of established casino? :confused:

one poster mentioned the borgata and if i was ever in this situation i would stiff some of those people there who are away from the table for more hands than they play. otherwise i'd give you basically:

table share/ (#paid +1)

sound fair??

ManU918
02-11-2016, 08:58 AM
i wouldn't mention anything but i'd certainly linger there for awhile instead of rushing off to another table where i could more conveniently be "forgotten."

how am i supposed to focus on a new game while watching if anyone's coming with my "rightful share" out of the corner of my eye?

it's hard to believe that the whole table would stiff the guy though at any kind of established casino? :confused:

one poster mentioned the borgata and if i was ever in this situation i would stiff some of those people there who are away from the table for more hands than they play. otherwise i'd give you basically:

table share/ (#paid +1)

sound fair??

I disagree with you when you say its their rightful share. The only way it would be their rightful share if it were in the rules of the game. As you mentioned players are absent all of the time and nothing is done about it. Smoking, talking with friends at other tables, watching tv, on the phone, eating, gambling on other games, etc. Its annoying because some of us are actually there to play poker. The ones who are playing poker during the time that the BBJ gets hit are those who should benefit. Not those who are there to do everything but play. I do feel bad for the players who are in the bathroom when the BBJ hits. In that case if everyone else agreed I would cut him/her in so he/she would get an equal share. BUT in most cases I wouldn't give shit because in most cases the other players at the table wouldn't give me shit. When a player gets up they are no longer part of the game. That's the reality of the situation. Expecting someone to part ways with in most case would amount to thousands of dollars is absurd. What's next? If the BBJ hits while a player is doing a line off their dashboard am I expected to give him a share too? For us non-smokers do you know how bad it is when someone goes out to smoke then comes back and sits next to you? Its ****ing disgusting. Pretty much bathroom or nothing for me and I have to like the player who went to the bathroom. When I say like I don't mean personally like. I mean someone who has been respectful to the game during the time of play and didn't give me a reason to not cut them in.

So here's a hypothetical...if I hit a jackpot on a slot machine (Don't play slots but this is a WHAT IF situation) and the person who was playing the same machine before me comes over am I supposed to give them a percentage because they went to a different machine which allowed me to hit the jackpot on the machine that they were previously playing? Wouldn't that ultimately be the same?

davew
02-11-2016, 11:23 AM
I disagree with you when you say its their rightful share. The only way it would be their rightful share if it were in the rules of the game. As you mentioned players are absent all of the time and nothing is done about it. Smoking, talking with friends at other tables, watching tv, on the phone, eating, gambling on other games, etc. Its annoying because some of us are actually there to play poker. The ones who are playing poker during the time that the BBJ gets hit are those who should benefit. Not those who are there to do everything but play. I do feel bad for the players who are in the bathroom when the BBJ hits. In that case if everyone else agreed I would cut him/her in so he/she would get an equal share. BUT in most cases I wouldn't give shit because in most cases the other players at the table wouldn't give me shit. When a player gets up they are no longer part of the game. That's the reality of the situation. Expecting someone to part ways with in most case would amount to thousands of dollars is absurd. What's next? If the BBJ hits while a player is doing a line off their dashboard am I expected to give him a share too? For us non-smokers do you know how bad it is when someone goes out to smoke then comes back and sits next to you? Its ****ing disgusting. Pretty much bathroom or nothing for me and I have to like the player who went to the bathroom. When I say like I don't mean personally like. I mean someone who has been respectful to the game during the time of play and didn't give me a reason to not cut them in.

So here's a hypothetical...if I hit a jackpot on a slot machine (Don't play slots but this is a WHAT IF situation) and the person who was playing the same machine before me comes over am I supposed to give them a percentage because they went to a different machine which allowed me to hit the jackpot on the machine that they were previously playing? Wouldn't that ultimately be the same?

How would you feel if you had been at that table for 5 hours and miss a couple hands to urinate? (or do you bring your own bottle?)

Track Collector
02-11-2016, 11:44 AM
As tough as it would be, I would probably choose to suffer in silence, but stay at the same table because I would already have some reads rather than having to develop new ones at a new table. My worldview is that I have many things to be thankful for, so if I am destined to miss out on a BBJ, there are a lot worse things that can happen in my life! (That said, I admit it would be very tough to look/act 100% happy for everyone else at the table while missing out myself.).

On the flip side, provided that the player who missed was not rude or obnoxious, I would most likely give them something small out of my winnings. (This amount would also likely be smaller than what I would tip the dealer.).

ManU918
02-11-2016, 12:41 PM
How would you feel if you had been at that table for 5 hours and miss a couple hands to urinate? (or do you bring your own bottle?)

If you read my above post, pissing is the one exception I would make. When I'm at a table and the BBJ is absurdly high, deals are usually made for when players have to piss/smoke in case the BBJ is hit while the absent player is MIA.

Dave Schwartz
02-11-2016, 01:26 PM
While this would be a haunter for years, I think one just has to accept that sometimes your ship comes in and you're at the airport.

Same thing when you write a pick-3 or pick-4 choosing the wrong single in a race where it was a coin-toss with the eventual winner that triggered a single-ticket take down.

LOL - I am still haunted a little by a $100 bill I dropped out of my pocket in a pool room back in 1975. Someone hollers "Hey, I found a $100!" I look in my pocket and replay my movements - dang, that was mine!

There are just no do-overs and no "making it right."

dilanesp
02-11-2016, 03:20 PM
I hardly see what the big deal is. When I was younger I once purchased a scratch off lottery ticket right after a guy who bought 20 of them. Mine was a $100 winner and entered me in a drawing for $3 million. Guy who bought 20 got all pissed off. Why?

And early on in my live poker journey, I got must-moved off a table at Hustler which hit a $40,000 jackpot right after I moved. I didn't care. Why should I? It's basically random.

If you gamble for any length of time, you are going to have some near misses. I'm sure people who play slots leave a machine and then see someone else hit a big payoff all the time. It's built into the variance of the game. If you can't accept random chance, don't gamble.

As for what I would do: take the table change.

proximity
02-11-2016, 04:07 PM
I disagree with you when you say its their rightful share. The only way it would be their rightful share if it were in the rules of the game. As you mentioned players are absent all of the time and nothing is done about it. Smoking, talking with friends at other tables, watching tv, on the phone, eating, gambling on other games, etc. Its annoying because some of us are actually there to play poker. The ones who are playing poker during the time that the BBJ gets hit are those who should benefit. Not those who are there to do everything but play. I do feel bad for the players who are in the bathroom when the BBJ hits. In that case if everyone else agreed I would cut him/her in so he/she would get an equal share. BUT in most cases I wouldn't give shit because in most cases the other players at the table wouldn't give me shit. When a player gets up they are no longer part of the game. That's the reality of the situation. Expecting someone to part ways with in most case would amount to thousands of dollars is absurd. What's next? If the BBJ hits while a player is doing a line off their dashboard am I expected to give him a share too? For us non-smokers do you know how bad it is when someone goes out to smoke then comes back and sits next to you? Its ****ing disgusting. Pretty much bathroom or nothing for me and I have to like the player who went to the bathroom. When I say like I don't mean personally like. I mean someone who has been respectful to the game during the time of play and didn't give me a reason to not cut them in.

So here's a hypothetical...if I hit a jackpot on a slot machine (Don't play slots but this is a WHAT IF situation) and the person who was playing the same machine before me comes over am I supposed to give them a percentage because they went to a different machine which allowed me to hit the jackpot on the machine that they were previously playing? Wouldn't that ultimately be the same?

i didn't say it was their rightful share i actually said it was mine ;with rightful share in parentheses.

my equation was a maximum. the longer you're in the game and the higher percentage of hands you're in the game, the closer i'd give you to this maximum.

if someone's in the game for 99% of the hands (like we are) and they get up for a short period of time (bathroom, snack, whatever...) sure by the rules they're not entitled to the bad beat they caused. but they did cause it and are just losing out on a technicality.

i find it hard to believe players at parx or borg wouldn't give you a share? :confused:

proximity
02-11-2016, 04:30 PM
I hardly see what the big deal is. .

when you're a successful lawyer playing 100-200 at a world class level..... sure.

for joe grinder playing 1-2 though?

TJDave
02-15-2016, 02:27 AM
If you're not in the hand that's it. What's so difficult to understand?

tucker6
02-15-2016, 07:12 AM
If you're not in the hand that's it. What's so difficult to understand?
In many casinos, it isn't that simple.

Stillriledup
02-15-2016, 06:54 PM
Love how the thread turned into a 'quit smoking' sermon :lol:

Donttellmeshowme
02-19-2016, 12:45 AM
So did he get his share or not?

proximity
02-19-2016, 01:16 AM
So did he get his share or not?

yes..... and no. ;)

dilanesp
03-15-2016, 09:28 PM
when you're a successful lawyer playing 100-200 at a world class level..... sure.

for joe grinder playing 1-2 though?

Here's the thing. The laws of mathematics are not repealed for small-time gamblers, or occasional gamblers, or anyone else.

If you can't accept statistical variance, don't gamble. Seriously. There are plenty of things you can do with your time and money where you will be spared the effects of variance.

A lot of people who come to poker rooms in California are chronically unhappy, because they are so obsessed with their short term results that the moment something goes wrong, they are blaming dealers, getting angry at players and casino staff, throwing cards and chips, etc.

And that can lead to worse play, which can lead in turn to more losses.

It has nothing to do with how much money you make or what level you play. You are choosing to engage in an activity that has a ton of random chance. As a result, (1) you had better be risking money you can afford to lose, and (2) you had better accept that random chance may not break your way. If you do these things, the game can be fun and you won't sweat the near misses. If you can't, why put yourself through the aggravation?

proximity
03-15-2016, 10:18 PM
Here's the thing. The laws of mathematics are not repealed for small-time gamblers, or occasional gamblers, or anyone else.

If you can't accept statistical variance, don't gamble. Seriously. There are plenty of things you can do with your time and money where you will be spared the effects of variance.

A lot of people who come to poker rooms in California are chronically unhappy, because they are so obsessed with their short term results that the moment something goes wrong, they are blaming dealers, getting angry at players and casino staff, throwing cards and chips, etc.

And that can lead to worse play, which can lead in turn to more losses.

It has nothing to do with how much money you make or what level you play. You are choosing to engage in an activity that has a ton of random chance. As a result, (1) you had better be risking money you can afford to lose, and (2) you had better accept that random chance may not break your way. If you do these things, the game can be fun and you won't sweat the near misses. If you can't, why put yourself through the aggravation?

the casinos would be ghost towns if it wasn't for these players.

proximity
03-16-2016, 12:54 AM
it does occur to me that since i'm routinely playing at a casino with a $500 cap on the table share that maybe i'm being as or even more cavalier than i'm implying that dilane was since i'd only be parting with a quarter or two.

perhaps there's hope for me though and there will be a future for me where i come of age and can produce a proximity poker tour report like this:

tonight i was playing in the four seat to the left of a regular named charlie. while i wouldn't call charlie a friend i certainly don't dislike him and appreciate his consistent attendance and general table etiquette. after ten consecutive hours of play (as well as drinking and tipping the waitresses) charlie FINALLY gets up to go to the bathroom. a hardcore gambler, i can respect the fact that charlie held it in until just before the big blind got to him so he didn't waste any "free" hands. certainly i would've lost respect for him had he paid his blinds and THEN gotten up to walk to the bathroom.

sure enough though, charlie's absence causes the bad beat to hit!! and by the time charlie gets back there's complete celebration and chaos at the table!! after a long delay the floor pays everyone except of course poor charlie. as possibly the only experienced casino gambler at the table (civilized casinos of atlantic city :eek: ) i consider tossing charlie a share.... possibly setting an example for others.... although i certainly won't judge them if they don't follow.

instead though i remember that it's all math and that it would be wrong of me to encourage others to obsess over short term results. and as it becomes increasingly obvious to a despondent charlie that he's going to be stiffed i gently put my right hand on his shoulder and tell him "charlie, you are choosing to engage in an activity that has a ton of random chance. if you can't accept statistical variance.... don't gamble.... SERIOUSLY (dude)."

"charlie, there are plenty of things you can do with your time and money where you will be spared the effects of variance," i continue before my crestfallen neighbor sulks away to the casino parking garage.

later that night i retire to an upper floor of the parking garage only to find that all four of my brand new general altimax tires have been slashed. and i see charlie standing on the ledge of the garage with a long sharp knife.

"charlie, it's going to take almost all of my table share to replace those tires.... but i'm not mad."

"you see charlie, i know it was just by random chance that my tires got slashed and i'm going to have to accept this statistical variance or stop driving cars," i continue when suddenly charlie drops the knife and takes a swan dive off the side of the garage that would make greg louganis blush.

i race to the ledge and shout "the laws of mathematics are not repealed for you charlie!!" as he's halfway down to his concrete nap.

the next day it's discovered that i was one of charlie's favorite players and that he was going to transfer 5,000 caesar's rewards credits to me before moving his tack completely to mgm grand.

statistical variance strikes again. :bang:

the end

Red Knave
03-16-2016, 10:45 AM
If you ever produce a report like that, I will of course read it and wonder who stole your PA login. :)

If that's where you want to go, awesome. Moving towards dilanesp's zen detachment is part of the journey but it won't be the end

dilanesp
03-16-2016, 05:21 PM
it does occur to me that since i'm routinely playing at a casino with a $500 cap on the table share that maybe i'm being as or even more cavalier than i'm implying that dilane was since i'd only be parting with a quarter or two.

perhaps there's hope for me though and there will be a future for me where i come of age and can produce a proximity poker tour report like this:

tonight i was playing in the four seat to the left of a regular named charlie. while i wouldn't call charlie a friend i certainly don't dislike him and appreciate his consistent attendance and general table etiquette. after ten consecutive hours of play (as well as drinking and tipping the waitresses) charlie FINALLY gets up to go to the bathroom. a hardcore gambler, i can respect the fact that charlie held it in until just before the big blind got to him so he didn't waste any "free" hands. certainly i would've lost respect for him had he paid his blinds and THEN gotten up to walk to the bathroom.

sure enough though, charlie's absence causes the bad beat to hit!! and by the time charlie gets back there's complete celebration and chaos at the table!! after a long delay the floor pays everyone except of course poor charlie. as possibly the only experienced casino gambler at the table (civilized casinos of atlantic city :eek: ) i consider tossing charlie a share.... possibly setting an example for others.... although i certainly won't judge them if they don't follow.

instead though i remember that it's all math and that it would be wrong of me to encourage others to obsess over short term results. and as it becomes increasingly obvious to a despondent charlie that he's going to be stiffed i gently put my right hand on his shoulder and tell him "charlie, you are choosing to engage in an activity that has a ton of random chance. if you can't accept statistical variance.... don't gamble.... SERIOUSLY (dude)."

"charlie, there are plenty of things you can do with your time and money where you will be spared the effects of variance," i continue before my crestfallen neighbor sulks away to the casino parking garage.

later that night i retire to an upper floor of the parking garage only to find that all four of my brand new general altimax tires have been slashed. and i see charlie standing on the ledge of the garage with a long sharp knife.

"charlie, it's going to take almost all of my table share to replace those tires.... but i'm not mad."

"you see charlie, i know it was just by random chance that my tires got slashed and i'm going to have to accept this statistical variance or stop driving cars," i continue when suddenly charlie drops the knife and takes a swan dive off the side of the garage that would make greg louganis blush.

i race to the ledge and shout "the laws of mathematics are not repealed for you charlie!!" as he's halfway down to his concrete nap.

the next day it's discovered that i was one of charlie's favorite players and that he was going to transfer 5,000 caesar's rewards credits to me before moving his tack completely to mgm grand.

statistical variance strikes again. :bang:

the end



Prox, I've been at several tables which hit jackpots, and at least a couple of them featured missed blinds buttons. I don't remember any of those people getting upset.

So this idea that you just HAVE to be upset in that situation is silly. I think some people may be that way, but it's far from universal.

proximity
03-16-2016, 09:46 PM
Moving towards dilanesp's zen detachment is part of the journey but it won't be (the end)

hopefully i could pull myself out the other side.... but you never know:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmIBSeFhnfc