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zico20
01-29-2016, 10:12 PM
Georgia took the first step to allow pari mutuel wagering. The voters get the chance this November to legalize it. Can Atlanta support a track? Will the voters even pass it.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/capitol_vision/2016/01/horse-racing-clears-georgia-senate-committee.html

LottaKash
01-29-2016, 11:08 PM
Good luck with that...

I mean, I am not sure what Atlanta/Georgian demographic would be much interested in it, long term..?

thespaah
01-29-2016, 11:42 PM
Good luck with that...

I mean, I am not sure what Atlanta/Georgian demographic would be much interested in it, long term..?
The only hope is the many transplanted northerners in the ATL metro area will take interest.
The one advantage an Atlanta area track would have is there is no other form of wagering in any of the neighboring states except,NC has one Casino and Alabama has two to three dog tracks.
Other than the Harrah's Cherokee Casino some 4 hours by car from ATL, there really isn't much on which to bet anywhere near.
South Carolina and for the most part North Carolina have no legal form of wagering. Tennessee actually did legalize pari mutuel wagering but no business entity wever did bother to build a track. There are no gambling venues in Tennessee...

EMD4ME
01-29-2016, 11:43 PM
I would love to see it happen. I would install lights and run Mon Tue Wed with a 5 PM eastern post. Take advantage of open slots in simulcast hours. Get young people in charge and make it a nice place to be for happy hour.

Name? Peach Park? Bulldog downs?

sharkie187
01-29-2016, 11:57 PM
The only hope is the many transplanted northerners in the ATL metro area will take interest.
The one advantage an Atlanta area track would have is there is no other form of wagering in any of the neighboring states except,NC has one Casino and Alabama has two to three dog tracks..

The dog tracks in AL are still open? They were on the last leg in early 2000s

SuperPickle
01-30-2016, 12:13 AM
I would love to see it happen. I would install lights and run Mon Tue Wed with a 5 PM eastern post. Take advantage of open slots in simulcast hours. Get young people in charge and make it a nice place to be for happy hour.

Name? Peach Park? Bulldog downs?

This theory of "racing when no one else is" has been widely debunked. Everyone has kind of figured out you need other tracks to piggy back off of. Racing when no one else does generally means a much, much smaller pool of money to get.

thespaah
01-30-2016, 12:28 AM
This theory of "racing when no one else is" has been widely debunked. Everyone has kind of figured out you need other tracks to piggy back off of. Racing when no one else does generally means a much, much smaller pool of money to get.
Ok....Fine.
So a question for you..
Under which category do you fall
A) Can do..
B Why should we?
Your turn.
Tut tut...Just answer the question. You have two choices, A or B...

thespaah
01-30-2016, 12:30 AM
The dog tracks in AL are still open? They were on the last leg in early 2000s
Yep...
Check it out....
http://www.birminghamracecourse.com/liveracingmain.html
BTW, I went to this place when they ran horses.
It was a very nice track...
I went for the first time Preakness Day 1991. The place was pretty full.
About 8,000 people....

SuperPickle
01-30-2016, 12:33 AM
Ok....Fine.
So a question for you..
Under which category do you fall
A) Can do..
B Why should we?
Your turn.
Tut tut...Just answer the question. You have two choices, A or B...

A. The should race on Saturdays like everyone else

rastajenk
01-30-2016, 07:08 AM
With a noon post; first out every day. In a spring meet that coincides with Oaklawn and Tampa closing. Maybe a QH horse-oriented late fall meet that opens around BC weekend. There's a surprising number of QH people throughout the south that would appreciate racing closer to home.

LottaKash
01-30-2016, 08:53 AM
The only hope is the many transplanted northerners in the ATL metro area will take interest.
The one advantage an Atlanta area track would have is there is no other form of wagering in any of the neighboring states except,NC has one Casino and Alabama has two to three dog tracks.
Other than the Harrah's Cherokee Casino some 4 hours by car from ATL, there really isn't much on which to bet anywhere near.
South Carolina and for the most part North Carolina have no legal form of wagering. Tennessee actually did legalize pari mutuel wagering but no business entity wever did bother to build a track. There are no gambling venues in Tennessee...

Perhaps a glitter-destination type of OTB might work there in the Atlanta area, but what with Horse Racing just struggling to stay alive everywhere else in the nation, I just don't see how it would be any different in GA even if they ever did build a racetrack... As a business person, I would never back an operation of that sort anywhere, nowadays, especially in the Peach State....

For the Children... :rolleyes:

Grits
01-30-2016, 09:41 AM
IF you gentlemen have read the HANA magazine, in the thread provided by Greg R, here in the racing folder, as I have done. ;) You will observe that there is a Google map showing the thoroughbred racetracks and the harness tracks.

http://horseplayersassociation.org/feb16issue.pdf

There's still a glut of them, the majority of which are slowly dying. Forgive me for believing that there ain't a snowball's chance in hell that a new and shiny one being built in Atlanta is gonna fly. As you'll see the Southeast has forever been no man's land when it comes to horse race betting. Bible belt and all like that. :rolleyes:

Now, if you wanna open a string of convenient marts to sell gas, lottery tickets and 24 oz cans of Colt 45....know that any major commercial lender would extend you 100% financing. You'll be sitting on a gold mine.

EMD4ME
01-30-2016, 10:36 AM
This theory of "racing when no one else is" has been widely debunked. Everyone has kind of figured out you need other tracks to piggy back off of. Racing when no one else does generally means a much, much smaller pool of money to get.

So, you're saying to run in the summer months on Thur Fri Sat when 24 other tracks are running?

Yeah, that works out very well for the Canterbury's with a day time card :rolleyes:

castaway01
01-30-2016, 12:37 PM
Anyone who builds a racetrack in 2016 that doesn't have a casino attached to it must be out of their minds. Even if you could eke out a profit, there are still hundreds of better uses for the land.

Grits
01-30-2016, 12:42 PM
Anyone who builds a racetrack in 2016 that doesn't have a casino attached to it must be out of their minds. Even if you could eke out a profit, there are still hundreds of better uses for the land.

And Cast, wouldn't you think, for sure, land in and around Atlanta would surely be at a premium. Bet all those family owned farms held for generations are now subdivisions or malls.

AlBundy33
01-30-2016, 12:51 PM
The only way that this has a remote chance of working is if you get the support of some casino gaming company and if you card races for Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas (when Oaklawn isn'the running) and Carolina breds.

But realistically, this is a money burner.

Grits
01-30-2016, 01:01 PM
The only way that this has a remote chance of working is if you get the support of some casino gaming company and if you card races for Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas (when Oaklawn isn'the running) and Carolina breds.

But realistically, this is a money burner.

First, I'd question if any of the above even HAVE breeding programs, (of horses, that is) aside from Arkansas.

I'm saying this.. and I live here. :lol:

Redboard
01-30-2016, 02:22 PM
Anyone who builds a racetrack in 2016 that doesn't have a casino attached to it must be out of their minds. Even if you could eke out a profit, there are still hundreds of better uses for the land.
Yea. They should build a super casino/hotel/mall type complex with a racetrack. Run a premier 8-week meet with million dollar a day purses. This bleeping model that horse racing is this great jobs creater and good for the economy, just plain sucks. And no state breds pleaee.

thespaah
01-30-2016, 06:57 PM
A. The should race on Saturdays like everyone else
Hmmm. Sun Tsu wrote "if your enemy is superior, evade him."
Hence the reason why smaller tracks avoid trying to compete with NY and So Cal for a relatively finite betting dollar.....to attempt to do so is suicidal.

thespaah
01-30-2016, 07:14 PM
First, I'd question if any of the above even HAVE breeding programs, (of horses, that is) aside from Arkansas.

I'm saying this.. and I live here. :lol:
South Carolina has a thoroughbred breeders association.
http://www.sctoba.org/
and then there is this.....http://www.aikentrials.com/
Apparently Georgia does indeed have a Thoroughbred breeding program...
http://www.gtoba.com/

thespaah
01-30-2016, 07:16 PM
Yea. They should build a super casino/hotel/mall type complex with a racetrack. Run a premier 8-week meet with million dollar a day purses. This bleeping model that horse racing is this great jobs creater and good for the economy, just plain sucks. And no state breds pleaee.
Not sure where you are going with those comments

The Tetrarch
01-30-2016, 07:40 PM
Well, as an Atlantan I selfishly want this to pass. I have tempered expecations for the eventual racetrack plans, but for god's sake just let me have a legitimate ADW account.

As I understand it, there are folks trying to push a casino gaming through if this passes.

Grits
01-30-2016, 07:48 PM
South Carolina has a thoroughbred breeders association.
http://www.sctoba.org/
and then there is this.....http://www.aikentrials.com/
Apparently Georgia does indeed have a Thoroughbred breeding program...
http://www.gtoba.com/

I spoke mostly in jest, though knowing, SC had to have more than the rest of us as they've been part...horse country for decades, west of I-95. Here in NC, Pinehurst, Southern Pines would be the biggest area for breeding, I would think. I figure more hunter jumpers.

Remember when Frank Whiteley took his young horses to train each year in Camden, SC? Ruffian was among the Claiborne babies that he took there.

Grits
01-30-2016, 07:55 PM
but for god's sake just let me have a legitimate ADW account.

Isn't this the truth!!

I'm amazed that all over the Southeast anyone can spend any amount of money on the lottery, whether they have the means or not, but those of us that want to handicap and wager on a horse race, and have the means to do so--cannot. It makes not one grain of sense.

Welcome to Pace Advantage! :)

Hambletonian
01-30-2016, 09:12 PM
If they really want it to succeed, they will include a strip club.

thespaah
01-30-2016, 11:32 PM
I spoke mostly in jest, though knowing, SC had to have more than the rest of us as they've been part...horse country for decades, west of I-95. Here in NC, Pinehurst, Southern Pines would be the biggest area for breeding, I would think. I figure more hunter jumpers.

Remember when Frank Whiteley took his young horses to train each year in Camden, SC? Ruffian was among the Claiborne babies that he took there.
I should have known that. realizing you reside here in the Carolinas.....
Yeah Wasn't it Cot Campbell who was based in Aiken, SC?

thespaah
01-30-2016, 11:35 PM
Isn't this the truth!!

I'm amazed that all over the Southeast anyone can spend any amount of money on the lottery, whether they have the means or not, but those of us that want to handicap and wager on a horse race, and have the means to do so--cannot. It makes not one grain of sense.

Welcome to Pace Advantage! :)
GRR SDon't get me started.. I think it is ridiculous that with today's technology, STILL clinging to these archaic religiously based laws that tell us that just because we happen to reside on a particular piece of soil, we cannot legally place a wager on a horse race.
Meanwhile the State ( NC) endorses gambling on a lottery and allows the Cherokee Tribe to own their gigantic casino.....Hypocrisy.

SuperPickle
01-31-2016, 01:08 AM
So, you're saying to run in the summer months on Thur Fri Sat when 24 other tracks are running?

Yeah, that works out very well for the Canterbury's with a day time card :rolleyes:

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's a basic business principle. Creating a market is harder than coming into a market and operating a better business and beating competitors.

10-20 years ago every b-c track tried the idea of racing some odd ball time. Then they all realized that creating a market on days like Monday and Tuesday is harder to do than entering a market like Saturday and Sundays and taking someone else's handle through being a better operator.

If you look at all the tracks that have seen nice increases in business the last 5-10 years (Tampa, Oaklawn and to a lessor degree Canterbury) they've all done it by racing prime time day on the weekend and not racing Monday and Tuesday.

They idea that racing on off an day or an off time will only lead to minor bumps in handle has been pretty well proven.

zico20
01-31-2016, 01:27 PM
That's exactly what I'm saying. It's a basic business principle. Creating a market is harder than coming into a market and operating a better business and beating competitors.

10-20 years ago every b-c track tried the idea of racing some odd ball time. Then they all realized that creating a market on days like Monday and Tuesday is harder to do than entering a market like Saturday and Sundays and taking someone else's handle through being a better operator.

If you look at all the tracks that have seen nice increases in business the last 5-10 years (Tampa, Oaklawn and to a lessor degree Canterbury) they've all done it by racing prime time day on the weekend and not racing Monday and Tuesday.

They idea that racing on off an day or an off time will only lead to minor bumps in handle has been pretty well proven.

Not in all instances. Take a look at Fairmount. They run on Tuesday afternoon, Friday and Saturday night. For years the handle is double to triple on Tuesday compared to Friday and Saturday.

12/ALL/ALL
02-06-2016, 02:26 AM
IMO arguing about what the best post times would be is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic if this hypothetical track is not a racino. The old business model for racing is dead and will never be seen again.

ribjig
02-06-2016, 10:52 PM
This theory of "racing when no one else is" has been widely debunked. Everyone has kind of figured out you need other tracks to piggy back off of. Racing when no one else does generally means a much, much smaller pool of money to get.

WRONG!!!!!
If GA instituted, say, :5:% takeout, such a yoooge
amount of $$$ would pour in, probably 5X the
current largest tracks totals in US or world...
And that amount would easily overcome small
takeout to cover overhead & yoooge
purses every single flippin' race!!!!!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

barahona44
02-07-2016, 10:16 AM
WRONG!!!!!
If GA instituted, say, :5:% takeout, such a yoooge
amount of $$$ would pour in, probably 5X the
current largest tracks totals in US or world...
And that amount would easily overcome small
takeout to cover overhead & yoooge
purses every single flippin' race!!!!!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:
If it was that easy,it would have been done by now.

thespaah
02-07-2016, 12:11 PM
If it was that easy,it would have been done by now.
Under the current business model with the prevailing management style seen in the racing/track operations business, no way.
These people. those running( into the ground) this sport are incapable, forget unwilling, of thinking outside the box.