NFL wildcard round

[Valuist]

YTD: 47-34-1

Seattle/Minnesota Under 41- 41 is a key number and I only see it going down. When the Seahawks put up 38 on the Vikings earlier in the season, the Vikings had 3 key defensive players out, and all are back now. I expect Zimmer to make some adjustments. Minnesota won't be giving up anywhere near 38 this time.

Waiting on the other games. I anticipate the public to hammer Pittsburgh, Seattle and KC.

[thaskalos]

K.C. -5.5
Sea. -6
Pit. -Pk
Was. -Pk

[Marshall Bennett]

K.C. -5.5
Where do you find that? Best I've seen anywhere is -3.5

[BetHorses!]

Where do you find that? Best I've seen anywhere is -3.5

That is his personal line

[BetHorses!]

YTD: 47-34-1

Seattle/Minnesota Under 41- 41 is a key number and I only see it going down. When the Seahawks put up 38 on the Vikings earlier in the season, the Vikings had 3 key defensive players out, and all are back now. I expect Zimmer to make some adjustments. Minnesota won't be giving up anywhere near 38 this time.

Waiting on the other games. I anticipate the public to hammer Pittsburgh, Seattle and KC.


Gonna be frigid there

[rastajenk]

I'm surprised they didn't make it a night game.

[Marshall Bennett]

That is his personal line
Yeah, I see that now. Personally I think Houston will win with their defense. Their corners and safeties have really stepped it up. I gave up on this team early on. They got it together quickly.

[Valuist]

What do KC, Pittsburgh and Seattle have in common? All road favorites with cluster injuries at RB. The Steelers were very fortunate to have a back like DeAngelo Williams, but if he can't go, the Steelers will be much easier to defend. When Lynch went down, Rawls did great (better than Lynch was earlier in the year). Now Rawls is out; Lynch practiced but how good can a RB be who hasn't played in a game in a couple months?

Fact: If one wagered only on the team who had faced the superior schedule (per Sagarin's ratings) in the wildcard round, they'd be 37-14 ATS since 2002.

Fact: Road QBs have over 30 combined playoff starts; home QBs in this road have ZERO.

[BetHorses!]

Fact: If one wagered only on the team who had faced the superior schedule (per Sagarin's ratings) in the wildcard round, they'd be 37-14 ATS since 2002.


I think this goes beyond the wildcard round

on my data the the strength of sched looks like this...maybe someone can post if Sagarin agrees.

KC > Hou

Pitt > Cin

Min > Sea

GB > Was

[Rookies]

KC
Cinci
Sea
GB

[rastajenk]

Pittsburgh and Cincinnati played the same schedule except that the Bengies won at Buffalo, and Pitt lost at NE. But Cincinnati went out west three times, and once to high-altitude Denver, while Pitt did only twice. I don't see any strength of schedule advantage to Pittsburgh between those two.

[Valuist]

Pittsburgh and Cincinnati played the same schedule except that the Bengies won at Buffalo, and Pitt lost at NE. But Cincinnati went out west three times, and once to high-altitude Denver, while Pitt did only twice. I don't see any strength of schedule advantage to Pittsburgh between those two.

The strength of schedule is strictly based on power ratings of opponents, not the miscellaneous factors like trips across time zones, or short week games. Not saying those factors don't count, but for the purpose of this angle they don't.

[ReplayRandall]

In weather that will conjure up images of Bud Grant at old Metropolitan Stadium, the Vikings and Seattle Seahawks will kick off Sunday in temperatures that will make you glad you're watching on your couch.

The coldest game in Seahawks history, according to Bob Condotta of the Seattle Times, was a 1992 game at Denver that was 13 degrees. The Seahawks have played only 20 games in freezing temperatures and are 6-14 in them.

Sunday's game will be pretty miserable. The forecast calls for a high temperature of 1 degree above zero....

[kingfin66]

Inteteresting thing this cold weather. Both teams will have to play in it yet people are only concerned with how Seattle will handle it? Does Minnesota practice outdoors, or do they practice inside like every other nfl team? Minnesota has some type of home field advantage I guess, but is the game even sold out?

[kingfin66]

In weather that will conjure up images of Bud Grant at old Metropolitan Stadium, the Vikings and Seattle Seahawks will kick off Sunday in temperatures that will make you glad you're watching on your couch.

The coldest game in Seahawks history, according to Bob Condotta of the Seattle Times, was a 1992 game at Denver that was 13 degrees. The Seahawks have played only 20 games in freezing temperatures and are 6-14 in them.

Sunday's game will be pretty miserable. The forecast calls for a high temperature of 1 degree above zero....

Who did Seattle play in those games? Were they favored? How many of the current roster played in those games?

[ReplayRandall]

Who did Seattle play in those games? Were they favored? How many of the current roster played in those games?

Your points are obvious, but 2 games come to mind from the past, the Ice Bowl, won by the home team Dallas, and the Freezer Bowl, won by the home team Cincinnati. We'll see if the COLD will make a difference again for the home team....

[Stillriledup]

I woudnt bet a penny on Minnesota.

I didnt love the smiling faces on the players after mistakes in the GB game they just played, the kick returner who got run down by the GB. KICKER and fumbled the ball was laughing on the sidelines afterward and Peterson was smiling after he fumbled late in the game. This shows me they are not too serious, probably just happy to be there. No thanks.

[ReplayRandall]

I woudnt bet a penny on Minnesota.

I didnt love the smiling faces on the players after mistakes in the GB game they just played, the kick returner who got run down by the GB. KICKER and fumbled the ball was laughing on the sidelines afterward and Peterson was smiling after he fumbled late in the game. This shows me they are not too serious, probably just happy to be there. No thanks.

I'll admit I'm a bit biased pulling for the Vikings here. But, my home team Panthers would much rather see someone other than the Seahawks in the playoffs.... :cool:

[kingfin66]

And I will admit that I am biased in favor for Seattle. That being said, I do think that Seattle is more talented than Minnesota and should win. I do not think that it will be anywhere near as decisive of a victory as we saw in week 13.

[Stillriledup]

I'll admit I'm a bit biased pulling for the Vikings here. But, my home team Panthers would much rather see someone other than the Seahawks in the playoffs.... :cool:

Yeah, I hear ya, you don't need any part of a team who is a borderline dynasty. If Seattle wins the SB this year, they're at least a mini dynasty having been one bad coaching decision away from 3 SBs in a row.

[tucker6]

Yeah, I hear ya, you don't need any part of a team who is a borderline dynasty. If Seattle wins the SB this year, they're at least a mini dynasty having been one bad coaching decision away from 3 SBs in a row.
so buffalo in the 90's was a dynasty? The 70's Vikings? Your bar is way too low for such descriptions. People remember winners, not those who were close to winners. Seattle would need to win 3 times to be considered a dynasty imho. They have a really good team, but not a borderline dynasty. We throw out some of these terms too easily.

[Stillriledup]

so buffalo in the 90's was a dynasty? The 70's Vikings? Your bar is way too low for such descriptions. People remember winners, not those who were close to winners. Seattle would need to win 3 times to be considered a dynasty imho. They have a really good team, but not a borderline dynasty. We throw out some of these terms too easily.

2 out of 3 with the one loss a game they should have won I'd say yeah, at least mini dynasty.

[Stillriledup]

so buffalo in the 90's was a dynasty? The 70's Vikings? Your bar is way too low for such descriptions. People remember winners, not those who were close to winners. Seattle would need to win 3 times to be considered a dynasty imho. They have a really good team, but not a borderline dynasty. We throw out some of these terms too easily.

TupHeScj6tU

[tucker6]

TupHeScj6tU
as I said in a previous post, "We throw out some of these terms too easily." Applies to everyone and not just you.

[Valuist]

They won't be considered a dynasty, but IMO, Seattle was not only the best team in both the 2013 and 2014 seasons, but 2012 as well. They were my highest power rated team, and while they may not have beaten a Raven team who got red hot, they would've been favored, and probably by a half point or so more than the Niners were.

Having said that, do NOT mistake the 2015 Seahawks for being as good as any of those teams. They aren't. And they are NOT a lock this weekend. Forget what happened in the regular season meeting. Vikings had 3 key defensive starters out for that game. Rawls, who had a big game for the Hawks running the ball, is out for the year. No Jimmy Graham. Not saying Minnesota will win, but according to Bob Scucci, sportsbook director at the Orleans, all the five digit bets they've taken on the game have been on the Vikings.

[thaskalos]

Not saying Minnesota will win, but according to Bob Scucci, sportsbook director at the Orleans, all the five digit bets they've taken on the game have been on the Vikings.

Would YOU bet on the Vikings in this game?

[tucker6]

Would YOU bet on the Vikings in this game?
same question I have for those saying the Redskins will beat Green Bay. May happen, but the certainty level is troublesome.

[Secondbest]

Am I nuts to think McCarron is going to have big game on Sunday?

[tucker6]

Am I nuts to think McCarron is going to have big game on Sunday?
He came in against the steelers after Dalton got hurt. Steelers had no tape on him. As the game went on, they adjusted to his style. Now they have additional game tape on him. I don't think he does well saturday, but I am biased as well.

[Secondbest]

Right its the late game Saturday night.You don't think cincy can go deep on them ?

[thaskalos]

Am I nuts to think McCarron is going to have big game on Sunday?
The problem is...McCarron could have a big game, and still lose. These Steelers are dangerous...and it'd be nice if Cinci had Dalton.

[rastajenk]

He came in against the steelers after Dalton got hurt. Steelers had no tape on him. As the game went on, they adjusted to his style. Now they have additional game tape on him. I don't think he does well saturday, but I am biased as well.
I'm biased too. :D And I like our chances with AJ. The Steelers had a nice run there in the second half of the season, but they're not some kind of dominant team. They have some issues, too. If the Bengals (read: Burfict) can avoid getting sucked into cheap shot chippiness, we'll be all right.

[Stillriledup]

I'm biased too. :D And I like our chances with AJ. The Steelers had a nice run there in the second half of the season, but they're not some kind of dominant team. They have some issues, too. If the Bengals (read: Burfict) can avoid getting sucked into cheap shot chippiness, we'll be all right.

steelers much more popular team globally, which means better ratings and more revenue, good luck, hopefully you won't have to beat 2 teams to win this game.

[kingfin66]

Having said that, do NOT mistake the 2015 Seahawks for being as good as any of those teams. They aren't. And they are NOT a lock this weekend. Forget what happened in the regular season meeting. Vikings had 3 key defensive starters out for that game. Rawls, who had a big game for the Hawks running the ball, is out for the year. No Jimmy Graham. Not saying Minnesota will win, but according to Bob Scucci, sportsbook director at the Orleans, all the five digit bets they've taken on the game have been on the Vikings.

I am going to disagree with your first point. I do believe that at this point in the season, Seattle is every bit as good as they were in either 2013 or 2014. The difficulty is that the season to this point has resulted in their being a wild card team and having to win playoff road games. If they really are THAT good, they should be able to.

I agree that Minnesota will be much better than they were in the first meeting. Their defense is good, but the offense is very suspect once you get past Peterson. Teddy B. has done nothing to show me that he is remotely ready for prime time and I cannot see him rising to the occasion.

Rawls did a good job filling in for Lynch and was a tough loss. The great news is that Lynch is back. He is ready to go, has fresh legs, and loves the cold. Okay, the last part is not true. Jimmy Graham never fit into the Hawks offense. It was after he was injured and Seattle got back to spreading it around that the offense took off. My impression that Graham will not be back in Seattle next year even if he comes back from the surgery.

My prediction is that Seattle wins and covers the spread.

[thaskalos]

I am going to disagree with your first point. I do believe that at this point in the season, Seattle is every bit as good as they were in either 2013 or 2014. The difficulty is that the season to this point has resulted in their being a wild card team and having to win playoff road games. If they really are THAT good, they should be able to.

I agree that Minnesota will be much better than they were in the first meeting. Their defense is good, but the offense is very suspect once you get past Peterson. Teddy B. has done nothing to show me that he is remotely ready for prime time and I cannot see him rising to the occasion.

Rawls did a good job filling in for Lynch and was a tough loss. The great news is that Lynch is back. He is ready to go, has fresh legs, and loves the cold. Okay, the last part is not true. Jimmy Graham never fit into the Hawks offense. It was after he was injured and Seattle got back to spreading it around that the offense took off. My impression that Graham will not be back in Seattle next year even if he comes back from the surgery.

My prediction is that Seattle wins and covers the spread.

Seattle may even be BETTER right now than they were in 2013 or 2014, IMO. Wilson is a lot more mature and much steadier in the pocket...and their defense appears to have undergone a metamorphosis over what they were during the first part of the season.

[NJ Stinks]

I'm looking forward to Minnesota +5 on Sunday. I'm sure there must be Super Bowl losers who did well in the playoffs the following year but I can't come up with any recent examples myself.

Then there is the weather Sunday. Nasty weather can only help the dog.

[Stillriledup]

as I said in a previous post, "We throw out some of these terms too easily." Applies to everyone and not just you.

But that's from the official nfl YouTube page, so it's THEY who are saying dynasty. If they have decided the bills are a dynasty who am I to argue? That would be like David letterman saying that Tom Hanks is the best guest he's ever had on his show and me telling him 'no he isn't'

[Stillriledup]

I'm looking forward to Minnesota +5 on Sunday. I'm sure there must be Super Bowl losers who did well in the playoffs the following year but I can't come up with any recent examples myself.

Then there is the weather Sunday. Nasty weather can only help the dog.

Read post 17.

Take it to heart.

[NJ Stinks]

Read post 17.

Take it to heart.

I didn't see the Vikes and GB play on Sunday. But I can understand why you feel the way you do.

Look at it this way. It's turkeys like me that are keeping the line from ballooning to 6 or 7. ;)

[rastajenk]

For those to whom it matters, the Pitt/Cin game is supposed to be a rainy event...a hard rain, at times, temps in the 40's.

[tucker6]

But that's from the official nfl YouTube page, so it's THEY who are saying dynasty. If they have decided the bills are a dynasty who am I to argue? That would be like David letterman saying that Tom Hanks is the best guest he's ever had on his show and me telling him 'no he isn't'
you argue everything!! :)

The NFL produces a myriad of click bait material. Nough said.

[Stillriledup]

you argue everything!! :)

The NFL produces a myriad of click bait material. Nough said.

My point was that it's their league, their team so if they say dynasty, who are YOU to argue! 😄

[Valuist]

Would YOU bet on the Vikings in this game?

I've bet the total but not the side...yet. But yes, I'm definitely looking to bet the Vikings. 5 is a dead number so I'm waiting for the line to hit 6. And there's enough Seattle fanboys to move the number up there.

When they played during the season, the line opened at pick em and Seattle was bet to 2.5. I was on Seattle at -1 that day. The Vikings lost 2 key defenders in the first few minutes of the game, and another defensive starter was out. They will all be playing this weekend. Rawls had a great season for Seattle but he's out. Lynch has had a great career but he's gonna be rusty. If I'm holding a Vikings ticket, I'm glad to see him back. Why would I lay 4.5 now? It's still about value.

Interesting side note; apparently due to the weather, this game is not sold out.

[Secondbest]

Ian Rapoport is reporting that d'angelo Williams is out for Pitt.

[Secondbest]

Just heard that the 2 backups have less combined yards than Mike Vick.If true not good for them.

[tucker6]

Ian Rapoport is reporting that d'angelo Williams is out for Pitt.
Not saying it isn't true, but Rappaport is less than reliable with info.

[Marshall Bennett]

Texans +3
Bengals +3
Vikings +5.5
Redskins even

[ponyplayerdotca]

KC at HOU - Neither team better fall behind by too much because neither QB is capable of consistently going downfield quickly to score points on the rebound. Looking for around 17-14 final in this low scoring matchup. Could easily go into overtime. Chiefs edge at QB the difference?

PIT at CIN - Both teams are good and bad when they want to be. Both won in each other's barn this season too. Can't shake the one constant in the Bengals' playoff failures from many recent years - Coach Marvin Lewis. He seems to be the modern day Marty Schottenheimer - great regular season records with little to no success in the playoffs. 50/50 crowd also give Steelers a rare boost from their own fans while on the road. Loss of Williams almost kills Steelers' running game, but you know they win or lose by Ben's arm (TDs or INTs). Slight edge to Steelers even in the rain.

SEA at MIN - Teddy Bridgewater looked lost against the Seahawks defence in that 38-7 loss. Cold weather will keep the ball heavy and make both QBs struggle to pass. Peterson couldn't breathe against Seahawks D in first matchup either. If he can't get going, Bridgewater is not going to beat Seattle himself. Seahawks should win and face the Panthers.

GB at WASH - Packers have been odd all season. After 6-0 start, they not only failed to win their division, but also dropped all three home games against division opponents. They have one final chance to save their failing season against a Redskins team who barely won the worst division in the NFC and have a slew of players new to the post season. Virtual coin toss here. Packers barely survive in a high scoring affair?

[Valuist]

YTD: 47-34-1

Seattle/Minnesota Under 41- 41 is a key number and I only see it going down. When the Seahawks put up 38 on the Vikings earlier in the season, the Vikings had 3 key defensive players out, and all are back now. I expect Zimmer to make some adjustments. Minnesota won't be giving up anywhere near 38 this time.

Waiting on the other games. I anticipate the public to hammer Pittsburgh, Seattle and KC.

Adding

Houston +3
Cincinnati +3

let the dogs continue to roll.

[kingfin66]

Lynch is officially out for Seattle. I do not think that this changes the outcome.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

I thought Seattle was pretty hot coming into the playoffs, but bitter cold is a great equalizer, kind of like heavy rain on a natural grass field. If either Minny or Seattle ends up +2 in turnovers, they should win. Tough game to bet.

The lines in the KC/Hou game (I thought KC would be -6) and the Pitt/Cincy game (I thought it would Pick) surprised me. Not sure what to think.

Green Bay should whack the Redskins. Rodgers will have a huge day.

[Valuist]

Lynch is officially out for Seattle. I do not think that this changes the outcome.

That may benefit Seattle. First off, he ain't what he was, and secondly, after two months off, he'd be rusty.

[Stillriledup]

I thought Seattle was pretty hot coming into the playoffs, but bitter cold is a great equalizer, kind of like heavy rain on a natural grass field. If either Minny or Seattle ends up +2 in turnovers, they should win. Tough game to bet.

The lines in the KC/Hou game (I thought KC would be -6) and the Pitt/Cincy game (I thought it would Pick) surprised me. Not sure what to think.

Green Bay should whack the Redskins. Rodgers will have a huge day.

High scoring affair in Washington. Skins getting no respect, this oughta be interesting.

You like that?

[burnsy]

Todays Games

KC -3

Houston won what was probably the worst division in NFL football this year. They have a stiff defense and a mediocre offense vs. a stiff KC defense. Home field, but they are probably in over their heads here. KC has won ten straight and Alex Smith has quietly had a good year, 61% completions, 3500 yards and a 95.4 rating, plus he can run. I like KC.

Cincinnati + 3

This is one of those games I like to bet. Home dog, and I think they are the better team. The TV and some of the public are ga ga over Pittsburg. Without a running game there's no way I can bet them on the road. People are going to bring up all the other years and the crap that usually does not matter. It all comes down to today. Cincinnati has a defensive line that can really cause problems for Pittsburg, especially if they know what's coming. Big Ben could be in for a long night and he's been "Stuck hard" this year and rattled against teams that are no where near as good as the Bengals. They (Pitts) will go for home runs, if they get a couple, they have a chance. But if Cincy plays solid pass defense and controls the ball, this is a no brainer. The Bengals have been solid in every game except the one Dalton got hurt in vs. Pittsburg. On the other hand the Steelers have been all over the map this season, their star runner is out and they didn't even finish the season in a strong fashion against teams that the Bengals demolished. If Big Ben gets the pressure and picks he's been getting, signora.

[kingfin66]

I thought Seattle was pretty hot coming into the playoffs, but bitter cold is a great equalizer, kind of like heavy rain on a natural grass field. If either Minny or Seattle ends up +2 in turnovers, they should win. Tough game to bet.

The lines in the KC/Hou game (I thought KC would be -6) and the Pitt/Cincy game (I thought it would Pick) surprised me. Not sure what to think.

Green Bay should whack the Redskins. Rodgers will have a huge day.

I think that the cold weather will make passing difficult...everything actually.

I think Green Bay has been looking horrible. Washington, on the other hand, has been very good. I would not touch GB with a ten foot pole nor would I bet them with your money. Stay far away.

[Secondbest]

I think that the cold weather will make passing difficult...everything actually.

I think Green Bay has been looking horrible. Washington, on the other hand, has been very good. I would not touch GB with a ten foot pole nor would I bet them with your money. Stay far away.
All true so why is the line only -1

[RaceBookJoe]

I think that the cold weather will make passing difficult...everything actually.

I think Green Bay has been looking horrible. Washington, on the other hand, has been very good. I would not touch GB with a ten foot pole nor would I bet them with your money. Stay far away.

Green Bay's biggest issue will be the injuries to CB Shields ( would be covering DJax ) and OT Bahktari ( lined up either against Kerrigan or Smith ). I think their next best CB missed practice too ( Djax or Garcon ). Redskins need to contain Lacy and keep Rodgers in the pocket. Biggest issue for the Redskins are the injuries to the DB's and also the switch back to the original starting C who hasn't played in a couple of months. TE Jordan Reed has been a monster but Green Bay has done a decent job this year covering TE's. Should be a great game.

I think KC will handle Houston. Seattle normally should beat the Vikings, but the weather will play a huge factor in the game. Seattle without Lynch, but Michael filled in well. Pitt without their RB and Cinci without Dalton...which one is the bigger loss ?

[Secondbest]

Chiefs. -3
Cin. +2. Cincy getting bet I like them outright
Min. +4
GB. -1

[thaskalos]

Adrian Peterson's back injury kept him out of this Wednesday's practice, and, even though he returned to practice Friday, I gotta believe that frigid temperatures don't help lower-back injuries.

[Valuist]

Adrian Peterson's back injury kept him out of this Wednesday's practice, and, even though he returned to practice Friday, I gotta believe that frigid temperatures don't help lower-back injuries.

Nothing a cortisone shot won't fix (temporarily).

[ctownraces@bp]

Houston +3

Pitt -2-

[Secondbest]

Every change of possession brings commercials. No continuity.Very annoying

[Stillriledup]

Every change of possession brings commercials. No continuity.Very annoying

Watch on delay.

[Stillriledup]

If you are houston, why gamble there, the 3 pts is important in this kinda game.

[tucker6]

Hoyer plain sucks. Four turnovers by himself in six possessions. If O'Brien had a competent backup, he'd be in the game shortly.

[Stillriledup]

Every change of possession brings commercials. No continuity.Very annoying

I see what you mean, seems like run 1 play, 3 commercials, run 1 play, 3 commercials it's impossible for me to watch this nonsense without being on delay.

[Secondbest]

Watch on delay.
How do you that on cable?

[Stillriledup]

How do you that on cable?

I have satellite dish directv.

[Stillriledup]

Doesn't houston have another QB they could use? This is hard to watch.

[tucker6]

Doesn't houston have another QB they could use? This is hard to watch.
Neither team is playoff quality. KC isn't scaring anyone and Houston is atrocious.

[thaskalos]

Neither team is playoff quality. KC isn't scaring anyone...

I beg to differ.

[cj]

O'Brien should be fired before he hits the tunnel. What has Hoyer ever done to deserve the kind of loyalty he was shown today? Weeden should have been playing by the 2nd quarter.

[Stillriledup]

Last time KC won a playoff game, Derek Jeter was still a year away from his MLB debut. Rodney King was still 3 months away from receiving 3.8 mil from an LA jury, OJ Simpson was still loved by America, Anthony Davis of the Pelicans hadn't celebrated his 1st birthday yet.

Long time coming.

[BetHorses!]

O'Brien should be fired before he hits the tunnel. What has Hoyer ever done to deserve the kind of loyalty he was shown today? Weeden should have been playing by the 2nd quarter.

agreed

what an embarassment

[Stillriledup]

Interesting how the unsportsmanlike penalty wasnt nullified by the TD being overturned.

[Secondbest]

Still a quarter to go but looks like I was dead wrong about AJ and the Bengals.Can't take them in the playoffs until they win one.

[RXB]

Roethlisberger looked as though his shoulder was out, so it's really game on.

[cj]

Interesting how the unsportsmanlike penalty wasnt nullified by the TD being overturned.

Only interesting if you don't know the rules.

[Stillriledup]

Only interesting if you don't know the rules.

Not true. The interesting part is that the rule doesn't take into consideration that since the wiped out TD never happened, they still consider the taunting a by product of the TD. Has nothing to do with rules.

[cj]

Not true. The interesting part is that the rule doesn't take into consideration that since the wiped out TD never happened, they still consider the taunting a by product of the TD. Has nothing to do with rules.

It isn't any different than if a Bengals guy came and cheap shotted a celebrating Steeler and the play was wiped out on replay. It would still be a penalty on the Bengals.

This is the rule...all personal fouls and unsportsmanlike fouls carry over, others don't. So if you know the rule, there is nothing of interest. If you don't know the rule, I guess it is interesting. It is ok not to know the rule, we aren't paid officials. I've just watched enough football that I knew this one.

[Secondbest]

Cincy just imp!oded. Burfect is a jerk. Cost his team with a stupid penalty.What a schmuck

[cj]

Cincy just imp!oded. Burfect is a jerk. Cost his team with a stupid penalty.What a schmuck

Probably the dumbest ending to the ugliest football game I've watched ever.

[Kash$]

Is just plain stupid

[MutuelClerk]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[ldiatone]

any other team would have beat the steelers....but not cincy...bad game. i think steelers should have got beat....but turn overs. i am type less... :blush:

[Valuist]

Marvin Lewis MUST be fired. He completely lost control of his team, and yet another first round loss.

But Bengals bettors do get the $$$.

[ponyplayerdotca]

1) When Bernard fumbled after getting drilled helmet-to-helmet (no call), and the Steelers recovered, would a personal foul penalty have negated the turnover? If not, then it doesn't matter.

2) Was anyone else secretly hoping Burfict wasn't "down by contact" when he ran his interception all the way down and out of his own endzone in celebration (safety would have put Steelers up 17-16)?

3) How Burfict launches himself and pulverizes Bryant in that game situation with the entire season on the line is an absolute mystery.

4) Ugly, rough, divisional rivalry matchup ends in controversial fashion - but it was dramatic, even if not in a "good" way.

5) Can you blame Marvin Lewis for the actions of his players (if he sufficiently warned them prior to kickoff, that is)? Either way, another playoff loss for him in Cincy.

[cj]

1) When Bernard fumbled after getting drilled helmet-to-helmet (no call), and the Steelers recovered, would a personal foul penalty have negated the turnover? If not, then it doesn't matter.

2) Was anyone else secretly hoping Burfict wasn't "down by contact" when he ran his interception all the way down and out of his own endzone in celebration (safety would have put Steelers up 17-16)?

3) How Burfict launches himself and pulverizes Bryant in that game situation with the entire season on the line is an absolute mystery.

4) Ugly, rough, divisional rivalry matchup ends in controversial fashion - but it was dramatic, even if not in a "good" way.

5) Can you blame Marvin Lewis for the actions of his players (if he sufficiently warned them prior to kickoff, that is)? Either way, another playoff loss for him in Cincy.

1) Yes, but by rule it isn't a personal foul (terrible rule)

[Stillriledup]

1) When Bernard fumbled after getting drilled helmet-to-helmet (no call), and the Steelers recovered, would a personal foul penalty have negated the turnover? If not, then it doesn't matter.

2) Was anyone else secretly hoping Burfict wasn't "down by contact" when he ran his interception all the way down and out of his own endzone in celebration (safety would have put Steelers up 17-16)?

3) How Burfict launches himself and pulverizes Bryant in that game situation with the entire season on the line is an absolute mystery.

4) Ugly, rough, divisional rivalry matchup ends in controversial fashion - but it was dramatic, even if not in a "good" way.

5) Can you blame Marvin Lewis for the actions of his players (if he sufficiently warned them prior to kickoff, that is)? Either way, another playoff loss for him in Cincy.

1) I think the a personal foul negates the turnover, but I'm not sure.

2) I was secretly and non secretly hoping lol

3) it's not a mystery, the guy is a moron.

4) agree

5) Lewis's fault for not taking 3 knees and instead calling a play in the rain where a guy is fighting for yardage.

[rastajenk]

Burfict just gave the guy a shoulder. Seen it a thousand times. Nothing Jones did at the end was worth another 15 yards. What really is the difference between the hit by the Bengal on the Steeler earlier (couldn't tell who was whom cause I was busy) and the hit on Bernard that caused the fumble? I'm not asking about the letter of the law, I'm asking about intent and result and the penalty not fitting the crime. Total bullshit. Apparently I'm not seeing what everyone else is.

Why was Joey Porter out in the middle of the field? Shouldn't that be a penalty? What gives him the right to get in the middle of anything?

PS: McCarron is a class act. He's on TV now in the post-game news, and this can't be pinned on him. I don't see Dalton playing affecting the outcome any, except maybe negatively.

[banacek]

2) Was anyone else secretly hoping Burfict wasn't "down by contact" when he ran his interception all the way down and out of his own endzone in celebration (safety would have put Steelers up 17-16)?


Kind of. But I also wondered why that running the length of the field to the locker room with the ball wasn't an unsportsmanlike penalty. That was way worse to me than the 'celebration' penalties they give out.

[ctownraces@bp]

Burfict just gave the guy a shoulder. Seen it a thousand times. Nothing Jones did at the end was worth another 15 yards. What really is the difference between the hit by the Bengal on the Steeler earlier (couldn't tell who was whom cause I was busy) and the hit on Bernard that caused the fumble? I'm not asking about the letter of the law, I'm asking about intent and result and the penalty not fitting the crime. Total bullshit. Apparently I'm not seeing what everyone else is.

Why was Joey Porter out in the middle of the field? Shouldn't that be a penalty? What gives him the right to get in the middle of anything?

You gotta be a bengals fan

[ponyplayerdotca]

The physios from the Steelers came on the field while Bryant was laid out injured and being tended to. During the delay, some coaches went onto the field to check on Bryant and talk to their players. Porter strayed towards the players surrounding Bryant and became involved in the trash talking.

I agree that coaches should not be allowed to just run onto the field when one of their players is down hurt. The officials lost total control of the game. When calls are or aren't made, and emotions escalate, all hell breaks loose.

[Ocala Mike]

That's why they're the "Bungles." Look, I had no dog in the fight - in fact, I wanted Cincy to win because I hate Big Ben, but they pissed that game away, and I blame the coaching staff.

One thing for sure; the announcers were totally biased towards the Steelers the whole game, outrageously so.

[rastajenk]

You gotta be a bengals fanSince 1968 or thereabouts.

[ctownraces@bp]

Since 1968 or thereabouts.


I feel for you that's gotta be the hardest lose for Bengal fans and I have been a steeler fan since the early 70's

[cj]

1) Yes, but by rule it isn't a personal foul (terrible rule)

Apparently not even the "experts" like Mike Carey or Mike Pereira know the rules, so forgive me please:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000152833/Blandino-explains-new-crown-of-helmet-hit-rule

[ponyplayerdotca]

Kind of. But I also wondered why that running the length of the field to the locker room with the ball wasn't an unsportsmanlike penalty. That was way worse to me than the 'celebration' penalties they give out.

You're right banacek. Why the "excessive celebration" penalty is only allowed to be called on touchdown plays is bewildering. If the league actually wanted to phase out "excessive celebrations", they would be in any circumstance.

The official in the end zone watching the two Steelers dance (after the fumble return) hesitated twice before finally launching his orange flag upward. Funny part for Pittsburgh is the play WASN'T a touchdown (after review), but the penalty STOOD!!!

Jeeze aloo, WHICH IS IT??? LOL :lol:

[cj]

You're right banacek. Why the "excessive celebration" penalty is only allowed to be called on touchdown plays is bewildering. If the league actually wanted to phase out "excessive celebrations", they would be in any circumstance.

The official in the end zone watching the two Steelers dance (after the fumble return) hesitated twice before finally launching his orange flag upward. Funny part for Pittsburgh is the play WASN'T a touchdown (after review), but the penalty STOOD!!!

Jeeze aloo, WHICH IS IT??? LOL :lol:

He actually wasn't going to call it, showed restraint, but then a third guy joined in. That was a good call.

Personal fouls and Unsportmanlike Conduct calls stand even if replay overturns the play. There are good reasons for this, it is a good rule also.

[ponyplayerdotca]

That's why they're the "Bungles." Look, I had no dog in the fight - in fact, I wanted Cincy to win because I hate Big Ben, but they pissed that game away, and I blame the coaching staff.

One thing for sure; the announcers were totally biased towards the Steelers the whole game, outrageously so.

CBS wants the Steelers (national appeal). You can bet tomorrow NBC (Michaels, Collinsworth) will vocally LEAN toward Seattle for the same reason. And wait till FOX (Buck, Aikman) get going with the Packers' "love fest". They all can't help themselves.

The networks want the big "national following" teams all the time without apology. Count the times Buck and Aikman say "Aaron Rodgers" tomorrow during the broadcast - his full name every time! Make a drinking game of it. Hear "Aaron Rodgers" or "Mike McCarthy", take a shot.

They will hardly mention the names "Kirk Cousins" or "Jay Gruden" in comparison.

[PhantomOnTour]

The physios from the Steelers came on the field while Bryant was laid out injured and being tended to. During the delay, some coaches went onto the field to check on Bryant and talk to their players. Porter strayed towards the players surrounding Bryant and became involved in the trash talking.

I agree that coaches should not be allowed to just run onto the field when one of their players is down hurt. The officials lost total control of the game. When calls are or aren't made, and emotions escalate, all hell breaks loose.
It was Brown who got KO'd. not Bryant

[ponyplayerdotca]

It was Brown who got KO'd. not Bryant

Thanks for the correction... it's late.

[Stillriledup]

CBS wants the Steelers (national appeal). You can bet tomorrow NBC (Michaels, Collinsworth) will vocally LEAN toward Seattle for the same reason. And wait till FOX (Buck, Aikman) get going with the Packers' "love fest". They all can't help themselves.

The networks want the big "national following" teams all the time without apology. Count the times Buck and Aikman say "Aaron Rodgers" tomorrow during the broadcast - his full name every time! Make a drinking game of it. Hear "Aaron Rodgers" or "Mike McCarthy", take a shot.

They will hardly mention the names "Kirk Cousins" or "Jay Gruden" in comparison.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119424&page=1&pp=15

[PhantomOnTour]

Burfict just gave the guy a shoulder. Seen it a thousand times. Nothing Jones did at the end was worth another 15 yards. What really is the difference between the hit by the Bengal on the Steeler earlier (couldn't tell who was whom cause I was busy) and the hit on Bernard that caused the fumble? I'm not asking about the letter of the law, I'm asking about intent and result and the penalty not fitting the crime. Total bullshit. Apparently I'm not seeing what everyone else is.

Why was Joey Porter out in the middle of the field? Shouldn't that be a penalty? What gives him the right to get in the middle of anything?

PS: McCarron is a class act. He's on TV now in the post-game news, and this can't be pinned on him. I don't see Dalton playing affecting the outcome any, except maybe negatively.
Checking on his fallen player, Antonio Brown.
Happens all the time

[NJ Stinks]

1. The players make so much money today they don't care if they earn the extra playoff money that comes with winning a playoff game.

2. Marvin Lewis refuses to discipline his players when they need it. I'm done rooting for the guy. He just doesn't get it and never will, apparently.

3. Had the Bengals +3 tonight. Not a win to savor.

4. Listening to broadcasters refer to Steeler and Bengal players as "chippy" during or after the game is fairly nauseating.

[rastajenk]

Checking on his fallen player, Antonio Brown.
Happens all the time An outside linebacker coach checking on his wide receiver. Right.
Happens all the time.

[PhantomOnTour]

The best player in the NFL had just been knocked out cold...don't you think folks are going to go check on him?

Yeah, Porter baited y'all, and it worked.
Last year Reggie Nelson went low and took out LeVeon Bell
Then this year the Bengals take out LeVeon again (and I think it was Burfict).
Now Antonio gets knocked shitless - yep, we got a problem with that, and we're gonna let you know.
Your overreaction after that is totally your fault

[kingfin66]

Burfict just gave the guy a shoulder. Seen it a thousand times. Nothing Jones did at the end was worth another 15 yards. What really is the difference between the hit by the Bengal on the Steeler earlier (couldn't tell who was whom cause I was busy) and the hit on Bernard that caused the fumble? I'm not asking about the letter of the law, I'm asking about intent and result and the penalty not fitting the crime. Total bullshit. Apparently I'm not seeing what everyone else is.

Why was Joey Porter out in the middle of the field? Shouldn't that be a penalty? What gives him the right to get in the middle of anything?

PS: McCarron is a class act. He's on TV now in the post-game news, and this can't be pinned on him. I don't see Dalton playing affecting the outcome any, except maybe negatively.

The Pittsburgh player was a defenseless receiver. Burfict gave the guy a shoulder, but it was to the head. An obvious personal foul. Given the actions by Burfict throughout the game, and his history with Pittsburgh, you could even argue that he intended to injure the Pittsburgh player. A cheap, classless shot if there ever was one.

The hit on the Bengal player was legal. He had caught the ball and turned to run upfield. He was not longer a receive; he was a runner. The tackle was helmet to helmet for sure, but it is a different situation. Both calls were correct.

Indeed, why was Joey Porter on the field. If he is the Joey Porter of old, he lost his cool and was trying to antagonize, etc. It worked. Jones made the mistake of contacting an official. Inexcusable, but Porter was definitely in the wrong.

I thought that McCarron really rose to the occasion in the 4th quarter after a terrible first half. It is too bad that his teammates let him down.

[thaskalos]

The Pittsburgh player was a defenseless receiver. Burfict gave the guy a shoulder, but it was to the head. An obvious personal foul. Given the actions by Burfict throughout the game, and his history with Pittsburgh, you could even argue that he intended to injure the Pittsburgh player. A cheap, classless shot if there ever was one.

The hit on the Bengal player was legal. He had caught the ball and turned to run upfield. He was not longer a receive; he was a runner. The tackle was helmet to helmet for sure, but it is a different situation. Both calls were correct.

Indeed, why was Joey Porter on the field. If he is the Joey Porter of old, he lost his cool and was trying to antagonize, etc. It worked. Jones made the mistake of contacting an official. Inexcusable, but Porter was definitely in the wrong.

I thought that McCarron really rose to the occasion in the 4th quarter after a terrible first half. It is too bad that his teammates let him down.

Where does the NFL differentiate between "receivers" and "runners", in the helmet-to-helmet rule? I thought you couldn't initiate contact with ANY ball-carrier, with the top of your helmet to THEIR helmet.

And if Joey Porter was "definitely in the wrong"...why didn't he draw a flag from the officials?

[thaskalos]

There was another Cinci play which drew a flag...and I couldn't understand why. I wish I could remember the details more clearly...but I think it was a completed pass where the defender put a vicious hit on the receiver...but he used only his shoulder, and he kept away from the head. When explaining the flag on the play...the announcers gave a flip answer that the hit was "too high".

Can a shoulder-hit be considered too high, if it misses the head?

[Stillriledup]

The Pittsburgh player was a defenseless receiver. Burfict gave the guy a shoulder, but it was to the head. An obvious personal foul. Given the actions by Burfict throughout the game, and his history with Pittsburgh, you could even argue that he intended to injure the Pittsburgh player. A cheap, classless shot if there ever was one.

The hit on the Bengal player was legal. He had caught the ball and turned to run upfield. He was not longer a receive; he was a runner. The tackle was helmet to helmet for sure, but it is a different situation. Both calls were correct.

Indeed, why was Joey Porter on the field. If he is the Joey Porter of old, he lost his cool and was trying to antagonize, etc. It worked. Jones made the mistake of contacting an official. Inexcusable, but Porter was definitely in the wrong.

I thought that McCarron really rose to the occasion in the 4th quarter after a terrible first half. It is too bad that his teammates let him down.

I'm not condoning the Burfuct hit, that was dangerous, but I'd like to mention the showboating and salt rubbing by the Steelers after they took a 15-0 lead, the guy was dancing in the end zone and his dancing was not him just being happy for himself and his team, but it was done to show up the Bengals in their house. Also don't forget the comments by the Pitt player from a few weeks or months ago saying he hopes they play the Bengals because they're a choker.

Most people are reasonable and won't try and paralyze you for that stuff, but some people are not reasonable and that stuff turns the game much more personal, if you are player and you wanna get personal and make the cuts GP deep you might just rub the wrong guy the wrong way.

[Stillriledup]

Marvin Lewis MUST be fired. He completely lost control of his team, and yet another first round loss.

But Bengals bettors do get the $$$.

You've fired Lewis in this thread and CJ fired OBrien in another thread!!!

[Stillriledup]

I saw a highlight of the 2nd flag and I'm thinking that was a bad call. Joey Porter got right in the middle of the Bengals huddle 'sticking out his chin' like a hockey player, no way that deserved another 15 yarder, the guy shouldn't have even been on the field to begin with.

[Rookies]

1. The players make so much money today they don't care if they earn the extra playoff money that comes with winning a playoff game.

2. Marvin Lewis refuses to discipline his players when they need it. I'm done rooting for the guy. He just doesn't get it and never will, apparently.

3. Had the Bengals +3 tonight. Not a win to savor.

4. Listening to broadcasters refer to Steeler and Bengal players as "chippy" during or after the game is fairly nauseating.

Of all the takes here, I am closest to this one. Yes, I had the Bungles from +2.5- +3, but I also had them in futures for the SB! :mad:

I've taken this long to calm down and not fire my remote through my big screen! Always thought Lewis has pix of the owner cavorting with farm animals and if he's not gone after this #1 selfish, stupid, undisciplined melt down of all time, then we've got confirmation. :bang:

Hell, he couldn't even tell that RB:" Son, we don't give a shit whether you gain any yards here. The goal is to use up all the Squeeler TOs and kick a FG! That is the ONLY goal! Don't FUBAR it! " :mad:

I'm pretty sure Ben couldn't throw the ball more than 10 yards, but Lewis didn't figure that out either and blitz! :mad:

Geez, I've witnessed and suffered through 16 years of Buffalo stupidity & buffoonery. These clowns just one upped them! :mad:

[Secondbest]

For next week.opening lines. Pats-5. Den -5 1/2

[burnsy]

Playoff record 2-0

Thought Cincy would win that game. Pittsburg dealt with the weather conditions better and actually ran the ball. The opposite of what I predicted. That being said, the Bengals still sort of gave this one away. But hey, they covered.

Seattle -4.5

The game will be won if Seattle smothers the running game of the Vikings. This was the plan about 5 weeks ago and the Vikings got an ass beating when their QB was asked to do too much. Its hard to go against Seattle but they are a fast track team and weather has been a problem for them in the past. They lost 2 weeks ago in the rain, so watch if the cold affects them. Team speed is their secret weapon and the weather sometimes hinders that a little which could lead to a close game. But if the Vikings crumble on their own, under the pressure, like they did last time........blow out city. I'll take the latter.

Washington PK

For me, this game is a toss up, I can't get a feel for who I think will win. I have a really hard time separating these two so I'll take the home team and probably just parlay the "Skins" with Seattle. If Seattle loses I will make a small bet to win on Washington. They have the "hot hand" QB and GB has been "punch drunk" with injuries. Washington actually shows flashes of good "D" at home. Not that confident, but GB has been reeling. Tough call.

[Inner Dirt]

Where does the NFL differentiate between "receivers" and "runners", in the helmet-to-helmet rule? I thought you couldn't initiate contact with ANY ball-carrier, with the top of your helmet to THEIR helmet.

And if Joey Porter was "definitely in the wrong"...why didn't he draw a flag from the officials?

You can't, that would be a personal foul. It was ruled it was the runner turning upfield to run that caused the helmet to helmet, they held the defender blameless.

[PhantomOnTour]

For the record, I counted about 8-9 non Cincinnati players (ie - coaches) on the field after Shazier's hit on Gio Bernard.
But they were all out there to check on him right?

And you folks wanna cry about Porter being on the field.... :faint:

[Secondbest]

Porter is not a player Its an automatic15 yarder but they didn' t call it. The refs decided the game with flag on Jones. That should not be but it was.If burfect doesn't hit brown in the head for no reason game is over.

[BetHorses!]

These guys are thugs...all they want to do is fight

[burnsy]

People are hilarious, like this is the first time something like this has happened or will be the last. Its football, they hire professional football players, they don't hire lawyers with court room etiquette for crying out loud. Back in the day they got away with more than half of this stuff and testosterone has cost many a team. It takes a certain kind of man to play some of these positions. To act surprised at some of the behavior or trouble that comes up in the real world is ludicrous. The normal person would probably last a series....maybe. Don't believe me? Listen to how other athletes that are friends with football players talk about football players.

People actually lie to themselves about what they are seeing. This is the modern day coliseum. If you are not anything but a kicker, you better be a gladiator because that job is not for upstanding citizens. People just can't call it what it is, I can, and it helps me understand how to win. The guys that know how to behave and can smile.......get other deals. The ones that can't....don't get the sweet "TV Deals".....the ones that are even worse.....get a jail term or two. They are not hiring Alter Boys to be NFL players. Every time something like this happens people act surprised?????? They don't see the other 59 minutes of guys trying to hit each other?

I forget who said this famous quote, but it so true. "Football is imposing your will on the guy going against you." or something like that.......Gee, nothing violent can come from that?,,,,,LOL Getting the other guy to lose their "cool" is part of the game.

[Secondbest]

Porter can check on an injured player but once he started yelling at Jones flag should be thrown. In the cincy blew it.7 straight playoffs losses by Lewis Time for a change?

[burnsy]

Porter can check on an injured player but once he started yelling at Jones flag should be thrown. In the cincy blew it.7 straight playoffs losses by Lewis Time for a change?


No f'in way. Look at the teams with rotating coaches. They all suck and probably will to continue to suck. The 49'ers fired one of the best, if not the best and they are a total joke now. The Browns? The Buccaneers? The Titans? There is plenty to like with 7 appearances looking from the jokers I just named. They will be back, most likely win that division again too. At this point, Pittsburg is the main competition.

Dalton did not play and QB experience made a big difference in the first half. Cincy played a bad first half and still almost won. Everyone's talking about the penalties at the end but getting shut out at home for a half was part of the problem too. Aj (glove, no glove) McCarron threw like 3 good passes for half a game. The new, knee jerk, fire the coach moves are dumb if you are winning like they are. Even firing a losing coach is dumb if they are progressing or proven. Andy "The Walrus" Reid is laughing hard at the Philly situation after they let him go. Coach of the year as far as I'm concerned, winning 11 in a row with that team. Meanwhile, the Eagles are now a laughing stock. Yeah, fire the guy that wins....its a great move......

[tucker6]

Porter is not a player Its an automatic15 yarder but they didn' t call it. The refs decided the game with flag on Jones. That should not be but it was.If burfect doesn't hit brown in the head for no reason game is over.
Not really, even though the rule stated this. Refs in the past have taken some discretion in this area. In this case, the ref said that due to the possible severity of Brown's injury, he sided with being somewhat lenient. That said, the jury is still out on this incident. Appears the Bengals provoked Porter and not the other way around. Pacman was just too stupid to be able to read the script.

[cj]

The hit on the Bengal player was legal. He had caught the ball and turned to run upfield. He was not longer a receive; he was a runner. The tackle was helmet to helmet for sure, but it is a different situation. Both calls were correct.


This is not true. Using the top of your helmet is a penalty, doesn't matter if it is a runner or tackler.

I'll post this again...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000152833/Blandino-explains-new-crown-of-helmet-hit-rule

[mamaluke]

There is no excuse for the conduct displayed by some of the players
This great game has been hijacked by street thugs

[kingfin66]

I was basing that comment on what retired NFL referee Mike Carey said during the broadcast. Was what he said not true? He said it was a clean hit.

[kingfin66]

Did not see your prior post and link re: Carey. Question already answered.

[cj]

Did not see your prior post and link re: Carey. Question already answered.

Both him and Pereira got it wrong, which is amazing by itself. Even supposed experts can't get it right, along with the officials on the field.

[ponyplayerdotca]

Why is the predominant preference upon winning the coin toss to "defer"?

I have never understood this choice of not wanting the ball first.

Isn't that like always choosing to be "black" in a game of chess? White gets first move and wins most of the time by dictating play right from the start.

I remember a Bears game at St. Louis under Trestman a couple of seasons back.

Bears won the toss and deferred. Jeff Fisher and the Rams were ready and the fans were louder than loud.

The Rams went up the field in four plays, touchdown. Bears trail 7-0 without touching the ball.

Then, Forte fumbles on the Bears first play from scrimmage. Rams scored a play or two later.

Boom, 14-0 Rams less than two minutes in. The Bears trailed all game, including by 14 points at halftime when they "received the ball to start the 2nd half".

What good is it to start the 2nd half with the ball if you are trailing by 14? Wouldn't you rather start with the ball at 0-0 to begin with?

Final score was 35-21 St. Louis. Bears lost by the 14 points they quickly surrendered on the road by giving away the ball to start the game.

You want more possessions than your opponent to increase your chance of winning. So why start by letting the other team have the first one?

Can anyone here shed some light on why coaches still "prefer to defer" so much?

I find it to be a competitive disadvantage solely in theory.

[Valuist]

You've fired Lewis in this thread and CJ fired OBrien in another thread!!!

Five first round losses. He could've easily done a kneeldown in the final 1:30 and not risked a fumble under those conditions. That and completely losing control of his team last night. I don't put that on the officials. That's on Lewis. Esiason, as an ex-Bengal, said he was embarrassed by the antics.

[cj]

Five first round losses. He could've easily done a kneeldown in the final 1:30 and not risked a fumble under those conditions. That and completely losing control of his team last night. I don't put that on the officials. That's on Lewis. Esiason, as an ex-Bengal, said he was embarrassed by the antics.

I'll NEVER understand why a team runs the ball in these positions. The team almost never actually makes a first down. All they had to do was kneel, kneel, kneel, and even kneel again on 4th. There was no need to try a field goal or punt on 4th down in that spot. Pittsburgh would have gotten the ball with less than 30 seconds left and 80 yards to go, 50 to get in field goal range. Good luck with that.

[ponyplayerdotca]

Ryan picked the ball up and still seemed to have time to punt that ball.

He looked as if he wanted to run with it after salvaging the bad snap.

The strange plays begin.

[Stillriledup]

Porter is not a player Its an automatic15 yarder but they didn' t call it. The refs decided the game with flag on Jones. That should not be but it was.If burfect doesn't hit brown in the head for no reason game is over.

The 15 yarder on Jones wasnt really a 15 yarder, it was more like "loss of game" penalty. If you're the ref and you're tossing an additional flag in that exact situation knowing it means loss of game, I have to question that judgment. Why no 15 yarder on Porter for unsportsmanlike ? Or was Porter being a 'sportsman'?

Hard to justify the 2nd flag knowing the situation.

[Stillriledup]

I'll NEVER understand why a team runs the ball in these positions. The team almost never actually makes a first down. All they had to do was kneel, kneel, kneel, and even kneel again on 4th. There was no need to try a field goal or punt on 4th down in that spot. Pittsburgh would have gotten the ball with less than 30 seconds left and 80 yards to go, 50 to get in field goal range. Good luck with that.

Exactly, not to mention in the rain and not to mention with a backup QB OR a sore armed Ben. Pitt had 120 and 3 TOs and still needed 30 gift yards to get the FG Shot.

Marvin is a clown by saying in the post game presser that he didnt 2nd guess that decision. With the condition of Ben and the field conditions and the strength of the defense, why run a play that suggests you feel you have to actually score again to win? It's another example of a coach not knowing the situation.

[Stillriledup]

Five first round losses. He could've easily done a kneeldown in the final 1:30 and not risked a fumble under those conditions. That and completely losing control of his team last night. I don't put that on the officials. That's on Lewis. Esiason, as an ex-Bengal, said he was embarrassed by the antics.

Esiasin also said he felt bad for Lewis, but if Marvin kneels 3 times he doesn't put his team in that position.

[Secondbest]

No f'in way. Look at the teams with rotating coaches. They all suck and probably will to continue to suck. The 49'ers fired one of the best, if not the best and they are a total joke now. The Browns? The Buccaneers? The Titans? There is plenty to like with 7 appearances looking from the jokers I just named. They will be back, most likely win that division again too. At this point, Pittsburg is the main competition.

Dalton did not play and QB experience made a big difference in the first half. Cincy played a bad first half and still almost won. Everyone's talking about the penalties at the end but getting shut out at home for a half was part of the problem too. Aj (glove, no glove) McCarron threw like 3 good passes for half a game. The new, knee jerk, fire the coach moves are dumb if you are winning like they are. Even firing a losing coach is dumb if they are progressing or proven. Andy "The Walrus" Reid is laughing hard at the Philly situation after they let him go. Coach of the year as far as I'm concerned, winning 11 in a row with that team. Meanwhile, the Eagles are now a laughing stock. Yeah, fire the guy that wins....its a great move......
First off I don't think Lewis is going anywhere.The owner likes him.Second don't discount the ravens with flacco back high draft pick and a good coach they are not to be taken lightly

[ponyplayerdotca]

1) The weather is obviously more of a factor than either team will readily admit.

2) I don't understand Seattle not at least attempting the FG on 4th and 13 around the 30 yard line in the 2nd quarter. You have to try it at least once to convince yourself that your kicker can't kick that heavy ball in that cold weather in that situation. And if you're wrong, and he hits it, it's 3-3 at the half.

3) Seattle has to run the ball from passing formations. You can't just run from run formations and expect to get the running game going. Perhaps one of the many halftime adjustments the Seahawks must make. Minnesota looks as if they are holding on for dear life as they have no answers for the Seahawks defense.

[horses4courses]

Seattle has had their shot in recent years.
A SB win, then nosed out last year, they are
a shadow of those teams right now.

If this were a Roman gladiator fight,
I would be giving them the thumbs down. :ThmbDown:

Go Vikes! (and I'm a Bears fan)

[ponyplayerdotca]

Esiasin also said he felt bad for Lewis, but if Marvin kneels 3 times he doesn't put his team in that position.

Marvin Lewis is the modern day Marty Schottenheimer. Excellent regular season records and little to no success in the playoffs.

Hard to fire him, hard to keep him. Schottenheimer was fired from San Diego after a 14-2 season in 2006 (loss to Patriots in playoffs).

[TJDave]

Schottenheimer was fired from San Diego after a 14-2 season in 2006 (loss to Patriots in playoffs).

How has that worked out for them?

[NJ Stinks]

I'll NEVER understand why a team runs the ball in these positions. The team almost never actually makes a first down. All they had to do was kneel, kneel, kneel, and even kneel again on 4th. There was no need to try a field goal or punt on 4th down in that spot. Pittsburgh would have gotten the ball with less than 30 seconds left and 80 yards to go, 50 to get in field goal range. Good luck with that.

I disagree.

There was 1:36 left when Hill fumbled. The Steelers still had all 3 timeouts. If the Bengals - starting at the Pittsburgh 26 - take a knee 3 times on first, second, and 3rd down instead of handing the ball to Hill on first down, let's say about 10 seconds at most come off the clock after the Steelers use all 3 timeouts so we are down to 1:26 left. On 4th down the Bengals take another knee. The clock stops immediately on the change of possession and the Steelers get the ball with at least 1:20 left and no time outs on around their own 30 yard line.

A significant difference from your scenario.

[RXB]

I'll NEVER understand why a team runs the ball in these positions. The team almost never actually makes a first down. All they had to do was kneel, kneel, kneel, and even kneel again on 4th. There was no need to try a field goal or punt on 4th down in that spot. Pittsburgh would have gotten the ball with less than 30 seconds left and 80 yards to go, 50 to get in field goal range. Good luck with that.

Pittsburgh had all three of their timeouts to use. They'd have gotten the ball back with a full minute to go if Cincinnati had kneeled four times.

[Valuist]

1) The weather is obviously more of a factor than either team will readily admit.

2) I don't understand Seattle not at least attempting the FG on 4th and 13 around the 30 yard line in the 2nd quarter. You have to try it at least once to convince yourself that your kicker can't kick that heavy ball in that cold weather in that situation. And if you're wrong, and he hits it, it's 3-3 at the half.

3) Seattle has to run the ball from passing formations. You can't just run from run formations and expect to get the running game going. Perhaps one of the many halftime adjustments the Seahawks must make. Minnesota looks as if they are holding on for dear life as they have no answers for the Seahawks defense.

The holder for Seattle is also the punter, and he took a pretty hard hit early in the game. He later would be able to hold, but at the time, maybe they felt he couldn't. And if the FG is missed (would've been around a 47 or 48 yarder), the Vikings get good field position, which is obviously important with scoring so limited.

[Stillriledup]

Pittsburgh had all three of their timeouts to use. They'd have gotten the ball back with a full minute to go if Cincinnati had kneeled four times.

You could have kneeled 3 times and then punted.

At any rate, Pitt showed that even with 3 time outs, they weren't going to be able to get into FG range under the conditions.

[banacek]

At any rate, Pitt showed that even with 3 time outs, they weren't going to be able to get into FG range under the conditions.

Isn't that exactly what they did to win?

[Stillriledup]

Isn't that exactly what they did to win?

No, because they don't win unless the refs gift them 30 yards, you can't count on double teks.

[kingfin66]

OMG!!!! Laces OUT Marino !

I am ecstatic that Seattle won the game, but that poor Vikings kicker.

I still think that the PI call on Chancellor was bullshit. Not sure how the offensive player can run into a DB as though he is run blocking and the DB gets the flag. It looked like the most obvious offensive PI that I have ever seen. Anyway, on to Carolina.

[Kash$]

Kicker choked

[tucker6]

No, because they don't win unless the refs gift them 30 yards, you can't count on double teks.
Even if you take away the second penalty, the eventual kick would have easily been good from 47 yards. Penalties happen all the time on final drives. You can't pick and choose the facts to fit your narrative.

[tucker6]

OMG!!!! Laces OUT Marino !

I am ecstatic that Seattle won the game, but that poor Vikings kicker.

I still think that the PI call on Chancellor was bullshit. Not sure how the offensive player can run into a DB as though he is run blocking and the DB gets the flag. It looked like the most obvious offensive PI that I have ever seen. Anyway, on to Carolina.
That was simply a choke. Yeah the laces were out, but a kicker shouldn't miss from 27 yards with his eyes closed. He made a long one earlier under the same exact circumstances, so this is just excuse making.

[Valuist]

Monumental choke today by Vikings to match monumental stupidity last night (Bengals).

[NJ Stinks]

The two teams I was rooting for in these playoffs were the Bengals and Vikings. For a few reasons but one being that I felt both teams were live dogs no matter who they played. Now both teams are gone for reasons only Rod Serling can understand.

Even worse, we are stuck with seeing the Steelers limp into Denver. Who wants to bet on that game when so many guys are iffy going in? At least Carolina and Seattle will be top shelf drama.

Oh well. On to Washington for a game that I have zero feel for.


P.S. I'm glad to see Gulfstream is running 11 races today!! :jump:

[Stillriledup]

Even if you take away the second penalty, the eventual kick would have easily been good from 47 yards. Penalties happen all the time on final drives. You can't pick and choose the facts to fit your narrative.

It has nothing to do with my narrative, teams aren't making decisions based on thinking they might get one or two 15 yard personal fouls.

[Robert Fischer]

NFL and the sponsors lucked out again this weekend.

[thaskalos]

NFL and the sponsors lucked out again this weekend.
The "sponsors" will end up ruling the world.

[Stillriledup]

The "sponsors" will end up ruling the world.

There's 3 minutes of commercials for every one minute of game, or, so it seems.

But we all know that a BILLION BILLION BILLION dollar company just sits back and lets the players determine the outcomes due to sheer luck and chance.

:lol:

[Tom]

It is getting so bad, we will be seeing players retire during half time.
Games are far too long. Leave the damn clock run and get it over with.

[ponyplayerdotca]

The commercial break after a scoring play should suffice.

Why they insist on coming back for a kickoff and then immediately off to another commercial break is utter nonsense. Stay away during one break longer if you must but when you come back from break for a kickoff, you fkn stay and show the next drive!

[cj]

Pittsburgh had all three of their timeouts to use. They'd have gotten the ball back with a full minute to go if Cincinnati had kneeled four times.

And I still think that is better than risking a fumble in those conditions.

[cj]

OMG!!!! Laces OUT Marino !

I am ecstatic that Seattle won the game, but that poor Vikings kicker.

I still think that the PI call on Chancellor was bullshit. Not sure how the offensive player can run into a DB as though he is run blocking and the DB gets the flag. It looked like the most obvious offensive PI that I have ever seen. Anyway, on to Carolina.

Poor Vikings kicker? He has one job and he didn't do it. It was a pitiful attempt. He makes way too much money for me to feel that bad for him. He'll probably get another chance, but if I run the Vikings no way in the world can I bring him back as my kicker.

[Stillriledup]

Poor Vikings kicker? He has one job and he didn't do it. It was a pitiful attempt. He makes way too much money for me to feel that bad for him. He'll probably get another chance, but if I run the Vikings no way in the world can I bring him back as my kicker.

The holder was wearing very bulky gloves, not sure why you don't go bare handed there.

[cj]

The holder was wearing very bulky gloves, not sure why you don't go bare handed there.

The hold was no reason to miss that kick, and it was so bad it was never inside the uprights best I could tell.

[Stillriledup]

The hold was no reason to miss that kick, and it was so bad it was never inside the uprights best I could tell.

I agree, you still gotta make the kick.

[Tom]

That guy who sells the Dr. Pepper was hit by the ball.

[Stillriledup]

bsB7UQ8BlE0

[kingfin66]

That was simply a choke. Yeah the laces were out, but a kicker shouldn't miss from 27 yards with his eyes closed. He made a long one earlier under the same exact circumstances, so this is just excuse making.
The laces were in. Kickers like them out.

[tucker6]

The laces were in. Kickers like them out.
It was 27 yards. Even he said he should have made the kick and didn't notice that the laces were out. Stop making excuses for him. He isnt.

[thaskalos]

The pressure got to the kicker...and he choked. This is when the kickers earn their money...and Walsh couldn't do it.

[Stillriledup]

Don't you punt there if you're Washington?

[Valuist]

Houston +3 L
Cincinnati + 3 W
Sea/Minn Under 41 W

2-1 on week
49-35-1

[rgustafson]

Both the Texans and Redskins exposed for the frauds that they are.

[RXB]

The pressure got to the kicker...and he choked. This is when the kickers earn their money...and Walsh couldn't do it.

All of us at times make mistakes that we normally wouldn't make, pressure or no pressure. Same thing happens to people who are at the pinnacle of their fields. People just notice it more when someone flubs it at a key moment.

Mario Lemieux is one of the three greatest hockey players I've ever seen, but in the Olympic gold medal game in 2002 he had a virtual gimme into a wide open net with no USA defender anywhere near him and the goalie hopelessly out of position-- yet he shot the puck off the goal post. Every once in a while there's a "malfunction at the junction." Canada won anyway but imagine if they'd lost by a goal. Does that make Lemieux a choker? Nope, just a human being.

[Stillriledup]

All of us at times make mistakes that we normally wouldn't make, pressure or no pressure. Same thing happens to people who are at the pinnacle of their fields. People just notice it more when someone flubs it at a key moment.

Mario Lemieux is one of the three greatest hockey players I've ever seen, but in the Olympic gold medal game in 2002 he had a virtual gimme into a wide open net with no USA defender anywhere near him and the goalie hopelessly out of position-- yet he shot the puck off the goal post. Every once in a while there's a "malfunction at the junction." Canada won anyway but imagine if they'd lost by a goal. Does that make Lemieux a choker? Nope, just a human being.

I'm with you on this, the word choke gets tossed around much too often when it's not applicable.

[ReplayRandall]

Deja vu CHOKE for the Vikings circa Jan 17, 1999:

Gary Anderson's Only Miss of the Season

After becoming the first place kicker in history to complete an entire season making all his field goal and extra point attempts, Anderson missed a 38-yarder for the Vikings late in the 1998 NFC Championship against the underdog Atlanta Falcons. Minnesota, which went 15-1 that year, lost the game in overtime.

[thaskalos]

Does that make Lemieux a choker? Nope, just a human being.
You can be both, a "choker" AND a "human being".

[RaceBookJoe]

Both the Texans and Redskins exposed for the frauds that they are.

Texans made the playoffs with a circus rotation at qb, Redskins made the playoffs with a crazy amount of injuries and grabbing guys off the streets just to field a team. Most had them winning 3-4 games tops...so they cant complain with 9 wins. GB just outclassed them

[Stillriledup]

You can be both, a "choker" AND a "human being".

If he was a choker, woudnt he miss more kicks than he makes? I'm sure at some point he made a pressure kick.

[Secondbest]

Chiefs. -3
Cin. +2. Cincy getting bet I like them outright
Min. +4
GB. -1
3-0-1

[thaskalos]

If he was a choker, woudnt he miss more kicks than he makes? I'm sure at some point he made a pressure kick.
We are not life-long chokers...SRU.

I've choked once or twice too in my life...but I learned from it, and moved on. That's why we say that "experience is golden" in pressure-packed situations.

[ultracapper]

Burfict just gave the guy a shoulder. Seen it a thousand times. Nothing Jones did at the end was worth another 15 yards. What really is the difference between the hit by the Bengal on the Steeler earlier (couldn't tell who was whom cause I was busy) and the hit on Bernard that caused the fumble? I'm not asking about the letter of the law, I'm asking about intent and result and the penalty not fitting the crime. Total bullshit. Apparently I'm not seeing what everyone else is.

Why was Joey Porter out in the middle of the field? Shouldn't that be a penalty? What gives him the right to get in the middle of anything?

PS: McCarron is a class act. He's on TV now in the post-game news, and this can't be pinned on him. I don't see Dalton playing affecting the outcome any, except maybe negatively.

You're the first person other than myself that I've seen ask this question. I just posted in the clock management thread this same issue. I'm not sure which I didn't like more, the call on the Cincy D-back, or the non-call on the Pitt L-backer, but one of them was wrong.

[ReplayRandall]

Bottom-line, Coach Lewis has had thirteen seasons and seven chances to win an AFC wild card game, and Lewis’s Bengals have failed to do so in all seven chances, including the last five seasons in a row. Coaches have been fired for considerably less, especially when the most recent loss was pretty much completely self-inflicted. It may well be that the team needs a new voice and a new regime, or the Bengals organization will continue to be the biggest playoff chokers in NFL history....

[kingfin66]

It was 27 yards. Even he said he should have made the kick and didn't notice that the laces were out. Stop making excuses for him. He isnt.

Why do the majority of your posts come across like you are angry? Are you upset at me? In general.

For the record, I am not making excuses for him missing. As a Seahawk fan of 40 years, I am thrilled that he missed the kick. I agree that he should have made the kick, it was less than a PAT?

To summarize:

I agree.
He should have made.
Laces in - should have been out.
I am happy.
Why you so angry?

[LottaKash]

Perhaps I just don't get it anymore, but I don't think that there is a need for the "Wildcard Games" any longer...

Maybe I am wrong, but to my recollection, years ago, there were an "odd-number" of conferences and before that an odd number of teams within those conferences, and thus was the need for a Wild Card team(s), but nowadays, with the AFC and NFC both having 4-conferences in each of those 2 divisions, I am no longer sure what the need for a Wild Card playoff is any longer ?....Am I missing anything ?...

Besides, except for the Redskin/Packer game for a while, I was already on my 2d bottle of "No-Doz" thruout those uninspiring snooze-fests :D ...

[cj]

Perhaps I just don't get it anymore, but I don't think that there is a need for the "Wildcard Games" any longer...

Maybe I am wrong, but to my recollection, years ago, there were an "odd-number" of conferences and before that an odd number of teams within those conferences, and thus was the need for a Wild Card team(s), but nowadays, with the AFC and NFC both having 4-conferences in each of those 2 divisions, I am no longer sure what the need for a Wild Card playoff is any longer ?....Am I missing anything ?...

Besides, except for the Redskin/Packer game for a while, I was already on my 2d bottle of "No-Doz" thruout those uninspiring snooze-fests :D ...

All about money.

[LottaKash]

All about money.

I thought as much CJ, but it is nice to hear it from another true fan... :)

[tucker6]

Why do the majority of your posts come across like you are angry? Are you upset at me? In general.

For the record, I am not making excuses for him missing. As a Seahawk fan of 40 years, I am thrilled that he missed the kick. I agree that he should have made the kick, it was less than a PAT?

To summarize:

I agree.
He should have made.
Laces in - should have been out.
I am happy.
Why you so angry?
Not angry at you at all. Or anyone. It's just that your posts on the subject come across as excuse making, when the reality is that the participants all agree that he should have made it. I guess I have an aversion to participation trophies. These guys make a lot of money to kick a ball through the uprights. I know the announcers made a big deal of it, but at 27 yards, that is a laughable reason.

[ultracapper]

Perhaps I just don't get it anymore, but I don't think that there is a need for the "Wildcard Games" any longer...

Maybe I am wrong, but to my recollection, years ago, there were an "odd-number" of conferences and before that an odd number of teams within those conferences, and thus was the need for a Wild Card team(s), but nowadays, with the AFC and NFC both having 4-conferences in each of those 2 divisions, I am no longer sure what the need for a Wild Card playoff is any longer ?....Am I missing anything ?...

Besides, except for the Redskin/Packer game for a while, I was already on my 2d bottle of "No-Doz" thruout those uninspiring snooze-fests :D ...

TV Revenue. HUGE TV Revenue.

[ultracapper]

Perhaps I just don't get it anymore, but I don't think that there is a need for the "Wildcard Games" any longer...

Maybe I am wrong, but to my recollection, years ago, there were an "odd-number" of conferences and before that an odd number of teams within those conferences, and thus was the need for a Wild Card team(s), but nowadays, with the AFC and NFC both having 4-conferences in each of those 2 divisions, I am no longer sure what the need for a Wild Card playoff is any longer ?....Am I missing anything ?...

Besides, except for the Redskin/Packer game for a while, I was already on my 2d bottle of "No-Doz" thruout those uninspiring snooze-fests :D ...

Those wild card teams are usually as deserving as, at least, the 4th seed division winner. Finishing 2nd to the 13-3 Cardinals and the 12-4 Broncos is more of an accomplishment than the Redskins and Texans winning those lame divisions. The Wild Card games proved it also. All 4 wild card teams went on the road and won. There have been numerous wild card teams not only winning their conference championships, but winning the whole thing. The 5th seed is not a bad place to start a championship run.

[RXB]

I'd like to see the seedings and home field advantage determined by a team's record rather than automatically seeding the division winners as the top four. If a wild card team has a better record than a division winner it deserves the higher seeding.

[Secondbest]

I'd like to see the seedings and home field advantage determined by a team's record rather than automatically seeding the division winners as the top four. If a wild card team has a better record than a division winner it deserves the higher seeding.
Agree 100%

[Stillriledup]

I'd like to see the seedings and home field advantage determined by a team's record rather than automatically seeding the division winners as the top four. If a wild card team has a better record than a division winner it deserves the higher seeding.

NBA changed this rule after the Clippers played the Spurs in the first round last year.

[cj]

NBA changed this rule after the Clippers played the Spurs in the first round last year.

It worked out, might have lost in the first round otherwise :)

[ronsmac]

Perhaps I just don't get it anymore, but I don't think that there is a need for the "Wildcard Games" any longer...

Maybe I am wrong, but to my recollection, years ago, there were an "odd-number" of conferences and before that an odd number of teams within those conferences, and thus was the need for a Wild Card team(s), but nowadays, with the AFC and NFC both having 4-conferences in each of those 2 divisions, I am no longer sure what the need for a Wild Card playoff is any longer ?....Am I missing anything ?...

Besides, except for the Redskin/Packer game for a while, I was already on my 2d bottle of "No-Doz" thruout those uninspiring snooze-fests :D ...They've been talking about adding two more playoff teams.

[ReplayRandall]

They've been talking about adding two more playoff teams.

Pretty soon, the NFL will be just like the NHL, playoffs, goons and all.....

[Stillriledup]

Pretty soon, the NFL will be just like the NHL, playoffs, goons and all.....

Funny thing is that the NFL has more goons than the NHL does nowadays.

[Stillriledup]

Get to know Vontaze Burfict, 3 minute documentary, sorry for the ad.

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