Jets Beat Patriots on Botched Coin Toss

[Ocala Mike]

I've pretty much seen it all now; WTF were the Pats doing/thinking, if anything?

[cj]

Probably not the worst strategy move if done on purpose, just didn't work out today.

[Stillriledup]

Ref Freudian slipped the Pats, when the pats won he excitedly said to the Pat payer "do you want to kick" or something similar and the player wasnt thinking he just echoed what the ref said, not sure why the ref was asking the pats if they want to kick that makes no sense.

[Secondbest]

Can't believe it was done on purpose.Slater got confused and screwed it up.But you still have to play defense.

[cj]

Just to be clear I wasn't saying it was done on purpose, I'm sure it wasn't.

[burnsy]

Can't believe it was done on purpose.Slater got confused and screwed it up.But you still have to play defense.

Right on! Botched toss or not, its overtime, Ryan Fitzpatrick looked like Roman Gabriel and cut that defense like butter.
This is where the injuries hurt, late in the season, and they were out of gas the last 10 minutes of that game. New England's strength (besides Tom Brady) has been the defense, they are tough, but they got gashed today. They got them back in it with the fumble recovery but really the Jets out played them most of this game. On both sides.

[Secondbest]

Belichek said he wanted to defend one goal which would mean the jets would receive.Slater says he asked 4 times to make sure of the call.Just a very strange call by the coach.

[Stillriledup]

Belichek said he wanted to defend one goal which would mean the jets would receive.Slater says he asked 4 times to make sure of the call.Just a very strange call by the coach.

I don't buy it simply because the Pats player was arguing with the ref, seems like the coach is covering for his player.

[pandy]

Belichek said he wanted to defend one goal which would mean the jets would receive.Slater says he asked 4 times to make sure of the call.Just a very strange call by the coach.


If Belichick made that call, it was a blunder and although he may be the greatest coach ever, he has made several bizarre calls in his career that have backfired, including an infamous 4th down attempt deep in his own territory that cost him a game. As soon as I saw that they were kicking to the Jets I thought the Jets would win on that drive. I don't believe it's ever been done and I can't see how you could possibly say that it's a good strategy.

[Stillriledup]

If Belichick made that call, it was a blunder and although he may be the greatest coach ever, he has made several bizarre calls in his career that have backfired, including an infamous 4th down attempt deep in his own territory that cost him a game. As soon as I saw that they were kicking to the Jets I thought the Jets would win on that drive. I don't believe it's ever been done and I can't see how you could possibly say that it's a good strategy.

I agree it's a blunder because you have Tom Brady, why put yourself in a position to not have your best player guaranteed to touch the ball at least once. Hard to defend that.

[tucker6]

If Belichick made that call, it was a blunder and although he may be the greatest coach ever, he has made several bizarre calls in his career that have backfired, including an infamous 4th down attempt deep in his own territory that cost him a game. As soon as I saw that they were kicking to the Jets I thought the Jets would win on that drive. I don't believe it's ever been done and I can't see how you could possibly say that it's a good strategy.
It was done twice previously in the NFL, but both times due to very windy conditions. Both teams that elected to kick eventually won on a field goal. Such conditions were not present yesterday. A blunder indeed.

[tucker6]

I agree it's a blunder because you have Tom Brady, why put yourself in a position to not have your best player guaranteed to touch the ball at least once. Hard to defend that.
Agree. Just like the Seattle SB blunder when they passed instead of handing off to Marshawn Lynch. Always find ways to get the ball to your best player.

[tucker6]

I don't buy it simply because the Pats player was arguing with the ref, seems like the coach is covering for his player.
I thought this way initially, but then it was explained that the player was actually arguing that he thought he also had choice of direction just like they do at the start of the game. Apparently in OT, choice of direction is not given to the kicking team like it is at initial kickoff. Now that is eyebrow raising!!

You can clearly hear the player say, "I don't get a choice?". He was referring to direction of kick I am being told.

[pandy]

Just watching ESPN, they say that Belichick has done this three times, which I find hard to believe. I think the reasoning was that he did not have confidence in his offense to score a TD. The one TD they scored yesterday was after a Fitzpatrick fumble deep in Jets side of field. So if he kicks off and they get a stop, then all they have to do to win is score a field goal. It still makes no sense because if they elect to receive and score a field goal, then they are still in a position to win if they make a stop.

[The Judge]

make that call. No player would take it upon "himself" to give the ball to the other team with the game on the line. All game long the object of the Defense is to take the ball away from the other team. Now the ref is asking "do you want the ball or to Kick and you say yeah we want to kick "?

Weren't there at least two players out there from the Pats? Was the second player surprised, if not,it was a planned call by "the coach".

[burnsy]

Its a coin toss, a 50/50 chance, whether you win the toss or not. You still gotta play it out. Once it was over, the decision was made, the team has to produce (score) or perform (make a stop). Even if it was a risky or gambling decision, which it was. The defense New England put out there.............got smoked. That's the reason Belichick gambles to begin with, he's counting on a stop and better field position than a kick off, they make a couple first downs and the kicker that never misses, kicks the field goal. That's probably how they justify the process but they had no answer for covering the Jets receivers or rushing the passer and Fitzpatrick was red hot.

The New England Patriots do not count on the luck of a coin toss to win football games. They've been winning for years due to better planning and better execution. This one did not pan out because they could not execute the plan. The Jets are surprisingly playing very well and building steam like the kind of team peaking at the right time. That's NFL football. New England got a beating in that game, even if they somehow pulled it off at the end and won, the Jets were physically giving them all they could take. That's where I think Belichick was over confident, 3/4 of that game they were getting a beat down and he thought they could fight it off late. They were gassed. But that's how he coaches and wins more than most anyone else by thinking out of the box. People are going to bash him because he doesn't win them all? Its hilarious, because no one on the planet wins like this guy. He took a chance, most times they work out, he's a gambler, because he believes he's betting on the best prepared team.

[Valuist]

Its a coin toss, a 50/50 chance, whether you win the toss or not. You still gotta play it out. Once it was over, the decision was made, the team has to produce (score) or perform (make a stop). Even if it was a risky or gambling decision, which it was. The defense New England put out there.............got smoked. That's the reason Belichick gambles to begin with, he's counting on a stop and better field position than a kick off, they make a couple first downs and the kicker that never misses, kicks the field goal. That's probably how they justify the process but they had no answer for covering the Jets receivers or rushing the passer and Fitzpatrick was red hot.

The New England Patriots do not count on the luck of a coin toss to win football games. They've been winning for years due to better planning and better execution. This one did not pan out because they could not execute the plan. The Jets are surprisingly playing very well and building steam like the kind of team peaking at the right time. That's NFL football. New England got a beating in that game, even if they somehow pulled it off at the end and won, the Jets were physically giving them all they could take. That's where I think Belichick was over confident, 3/4 of that game they were getting a beat down and he thought they could fight it off late. They were gassed. But that's how he coaches and wins more than most anyone else by thinking out of the box. People are going to bash him because he doesn't win them all? Its hilarious, because no one on the planet wins like this guy. He took a chance, most times they work out, he's a gambler, because he believes he's betting on the best prepared team.

I agree. Where's the accountability of the defense? You didn't give up a field goal but a TD. It was a questionable call, as was the infamous 4th and 2 at Indy in 2009 (I was at that game) but Belichek GENERALLY makes the right decisions. Hard not to put the ball into Brady's hands. Too much confidence in his defense?

[pandy]

Belichick overthinks things sometimes. In 2009 he handed the Colts a win when he went for it on 4th down on his own 28 yard line with two minutes left in the game, and his team was leading by 6 points. They did not get the first down, they lost. Maybe he really is a genius because some scientists believe that geniuses, people with above average IQ's, sometimes overuse analytical reasoning and make poor decisions.

[rastajenk]

Yeah, I do that frequently.


:D

[reckless]

Only the PA old-timers such as myself might remember this. It's an enjoyable video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLSBHJpHsRY

[Secondbest]

Great video. I forgot about haynes but still remember cookie gilchrist kicking into the wind.
Great to see Hank Stram.

[barahona44]

Anyone think pats did this on purpose. IF Bellichick already knew the Steelers had alreadylost,he might rather eventually face the Jets than the Steelers in the playoffs.
A little far fetched, I won't deny.

[tucker6]

Any other coach would be crucified. It was a dumb move, and only Bill-is-God apologists can see the good in it. For you numbers guys, here is a great article on odds.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/112875/numbers-dont-back-up-patriots-ot-strategy

"Our latest win probability model estimates the recipient of the opening kickoff in overtime will win about 53.8 percent of the time, and setting aside ties, the kicking team will win about 46.2 percent of the time. Deliberately choosing to kick off without any overriding consideration would cost a team a 7.6 percent chance of winning."

[cj]

Right, be do we know the considerations? Weather would certainly be one, especially wind. Has Belichick given a reason?

[barahona44]

Any other coach would be crucified. It was a dumb move, and only Bill-is-God apologists can see the good in it. For you numbers guys, here is a great article on odds.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/112875/numbers-dont-back-up-patriots-ot-strategy

"Our latest win probability model estimates the recipient of the opening kickoff in overtime will win about 53.8 percent of the time, and setting aside ties, the kicking team will win about 46.2 percent of the time. Deliberately choosing to kick off without any overriding consideration would cost a team a 7.6 percent chance of winning."
And as someone else pointed out, there are usually weather conditions which influence the decision to kick, which was not a factor yesterday.

[tucker6]

Right, be do we know the considerations? Weather would certainly be one, especially wind. Has Belichick given a reason?
Bill gave his Darth Vader, circle-the-wagons response.

[thaskalos]

Any other coach would be crucified. It was a dumb move, and only Bill-is-God apologists can see the good in it.

I agree completely...and would like to see what these Belichick fanatics would say if this happens in the playoffs.

[cj]

I agree completely...and would like to see what these Belichick fanatics would say if this happens in the playoffs.

It was a dumb call, but what are they going to say? His record speaks for itself. All those Super Bowls buy a guy some leeway.

[tucker6]

It was a dumb call, but what are they going to say? His record speaks for itself. All those Super Bowls buy a guy some leeway.

It will be interesting to see what his record looks like when Brady retires. I have a hunch he will retire shortly after Tom does.

[Ocala Mike]

Bill gave his Darth Vader, circle-the-wagons response.



Why they let him get away with these "no comment" responses is part of his mystique, I guess. Meanwhile, I haven't heard a satisfactory response from him or any of his apologists to the question, "How is having Brady and Gronk watching from the sidelines as the game is decided a good thing?"

[upthecreek]

Herd w/Colin Cowherd (@TheHerd) tweeted at 1:02 PM on Mon, Dec 28, 2015:
.@KristineLeahy on the Patriots choosing to kick in overtime. #TheHerd
https://t.co/f0eKnNbfqj

[thaskalos]

It was a dumb call, but what are they going to say? His record speaks for itself. All those Super Bowls buy a guy some leeway.
He should get credit for the Super Bowls, and blame for the bone-headed calls.

You have Brady leading one of the highest-scoring offenses in the league...and you opt to kick off in overtime? Ridiculous call.

[Stillriledup]

Herd w/Colin Cowherd (@TheHerd) tweeted at 1:02 PM on Mon, Dec 28, 2015:
.@KristineLeahy on the Patriots choosing to kick in overtime. #TheHerd
https://t.co/f0eKnNbfqj

Why would that matter to them?

[cj]

Why would that matter to them?

They'd rather play the Jets again than the Steelers?

[cj]

It will be interesting to see what his record looks like when Brady retires. I have a hunch he will retire shortly after Tom does.

You could say the same thing about most great coaches, if not all. They had great players.

[Stillriledup]

They'd rather play the Jets again than the Steelers?

PItt couldn't beat a bottom feeder in a must win yesterday, jets are the better team, at least as of yesterday.

[Rookies]

Probably not the worst strategy move if done on purpose, just didn't work out today.

:rolleyes:

Really?

Unless it's either a howling blizzard or a monsoon, you put the ball in the hands of the 1A greatest QB of all time- EVERY TIME!

Terrible strategy, if that's what it WAS! :ThmbDown:

[cj]

:rolleyes:

Really?

Unless it's either a howling blizzard or a monsoon, you put the ball in the hands of the 1A greatest QB of all time- EVERY TIME!

Terrible strategy, if that's what it WAS! :ThmbDown:

We're talking a few percentage points here. I didn't say it was a good decision, I've just seen much worse.

So far with the new rules, There have been 65 such games that didn't end in a tie. It is 33-32, and I think that counts this game so it was 50/50 coming in.

Also, Belichick has done this before and won.

[cj]

Also, the ESPN article says this:

Second, the teams each scored nearly the league-average number of points. It wasn’t as if the game was tied, 9-9.

He isn't accounting for the fact New England's defense scored.

[tucker6]

You could say the same thing about most great coaches, if not all. They had great players.
Agrred

[tucker6]

PItt couldn't beat a bottom feeder in a must win yesterday, jets are the better team, at least as of yesterday.
Steelers play to their competition.