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View Full Version : Did you see race 9 at LOS Al's Finale? (F Perez)


ultracapper
12-20-2015, 07:50 PM
Watch the amazing effort Fernando Perez put into helping the #4 finish the nightcap at LosAl Sunday 12/20. Went by the favorite at the 1/8th, had her put away, and then Perez just cruised home the final 50 yards, while the favorite that he had put away at the 1/16th pole, re-passed him without EVEN BEING ASKED. Perez got re-passed by a horse where the jockey wasn't even asking for anything from his mount. Perez was standing for the final 50 yards like he was 20 lengths in front.

I had a win/place bet on the winner, and I figure I made less than half the profit on the place bet, splitting it with the favorite instead of the 9-1 4th choice. The fav had over $19K to place. Perez's horse had about $4500. So instead of getting a big chunk of that $19K, I get to split up $4500 with a horse that has 4 times that to place on it.

I hope Michelle Dollase, the trainer, and guessing by her last name, somebody with decent connections, reads him the riot act tonight. I've been seeing stuff like this with him over the past 6 months. He's going to build a KentD rep for not riding out if he continues. He's done it before.

DelMarJay
12-20-2015, 07:54 PM
PLEASE, PLEASE watch Los Alamitos Finale (R9)........ on replay. I had no ticket or bias on the race but can someone tell me what happens to the 4 horse from around the tall striped black pole.

Does horse break down or does jockey misjudge finish line by the largest margin I have ever witnessed???

NOT SAYING THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. Just that he had passed the 9 horse by 3 lengths from top of stretch to above mentioned pole when appears that jockey stopped riding. Thoughts; comments????

EMD4ME
12-20-2015, 08:05 PM
PLEASE, PLEASE watch Los Alamitos Finale (R9)........ on replay. I had no ticket or bias on the race but can someone tell me what happens to the 4 horse from around the tall striped black pole.

Does horse break down or does jockey misjudge finish line by the largest margin I have ever witnessed???

NOT SAYING THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. Just that he had passed the 9 horse by 3 lengths from top of stretch to above mentioned pole when appears that jockey stopped riding. Thoughts; comments????

That is beyond disgusting. No break down in my eyes. Horse was full of run for a clear 2nd. Was let up on to lose 2nd.

Galloped out just fine. Repulsive. Another one I'd ban for life. No appeal.

ultracapper
12-20-2015, 08:11 PM
FPerez the next KentD.

Thread in General Handicapping. Just a lame effort.

EMD4ME
12-20-2015, 08:16 PM
Watch the amazing effort Fernando Perez put into helping the #4 finish the nightcap at LosAl Sunday 12/20. Went by the favorite at the 1/8th, had her put away, and then Perez just cruised home the final 50 yards, while the favorite that he had put away at the 1/16th pole, re-passed him without EVEN BEING ASKED. Perez got re-passed by a horse where the jockey wasn't even asking for anything from his mount. Perez was standing for the final 50 yards like he was 20 lengths in front.

I had a win/place bet on the winner, and I figure I made less than half the profit on the place bet, splitting it with the favorite instead of the 9-1 4th choice. The fav had over $19K to place. Perez's horse had about $4500. So instead of getting a big chunk of that $19K, I get to split up $4500 with a horse that has 4 times that to place on it.

I hope Michelle Dollase, the trainer, and guessing by her last name, somebody with decent connections, reads him the riot act tonight. I've been seeing stuff like this with him over the past 6 months. He's going to build a KentD rep for not riding out if he continues. He's done it before.

Instead of the riot act, where is the long term suspension?

Let me ask it this way....

What if ballplayer hits a home run and decides to take a nap (literally stop running, lie down, take a sleeping pill and go to sleep anywhere between third and home plate)????

What if a wide receiver on his way to a game ending touchdown decides to stop and tie his shoe lace at the 2 yard line while the closest defender is 30 yards away?

What would people say then?

Kash$
12-20-2015, 08:26 PM
Instead of the riot act, where is the long term suspension?

Let me ask it this way....

What if ballplayer hits a home run and decides to take a nap (literally stop running, lie down, take a sleeping pill and go to sleep anywhere between third and home plate)????

What if a wide receiver on his way to a game ending touchdown decides to stop and tie his shoe lace at the 2 yard line while the closest defender is 30 yards away?

What would people say then?
Outside of the US Perez would be banned for a year in some places banned for life..

EMD4ME
12-20-2015, 08:31 PM
Outside of the US Perez would be banned for a year in some places banned for life..

I'm so disgusted recently. There's just so much crap going on in racing. Even when I have a good day or a good bet, I'm turned off.

theiman
12-20-2015, 08:32 PM
I'm so disgusted recently. There's just so much crap going on in racing. Even when I have a good day or a good bet, I'm turned off.

Before you Scrooges crucify a jock, during the holiday season, please read the chart comment I copied below.

NO CITY LIMITS bumped at the start, stalked inside, came out
on the turn and three deep into the stretch, angled to the inside in the drive, was eased up late and was edged for second, then did
not return to be unsaddled and was vanned off.

EMD4ME
12-20-2015, 08:37 PM
Before you Scrooges crucify a jock, during the holiday season, please read the chart comment I copied below.

NO CITY LIMITS bumped at the start, stalked inside, came out
on the turn and three deep into the stretch, angled to the inside in the drive, was eased up late and was edged for second, then did
not return to be unsaddled and was vanned off.

We've had this discussion before. It's deja vu.


Jock stiffs horse in lane. Gallops out just fine.

Then tells outrider...."Yeah get me the ambulance. She didn't feel right".

Tells owner she didn't feel right and covers up stiff job.

I was born at night but not last night.

If that horse was LAME THERE IS NO WAY HE GALLOPS THE HORSE OUT ANOTHER 1/8 SO WELL.

tanner12oz
12-20-2015, 08:39 PM
I thought something went wrong with the horse..very obvious something was up and not simply the horse stopping

ultracapper
12-20-2015, 08:45 PM
Before you Scrooges crucify a jock, during the holiday season, please read the chart comment I copied below.

NO CITY LIMITS bumped at the start, stalked inside, came out
on the turn and three deep into the stretch, angled to the inside in the drive, was eased up late and was edged for second, then did
not return to be unsaddled and was vanned off.

If the horse came up lame, I'll support Perez 100%. Watching it live, I couldn't see a reason for his actions. Since he's done it in the past, I jumped to a quick conclusion. If the horse got hurt, I would want him to take care of her at all costs.

theiman
12-20-2015, 08:46 PM
We've had this discussion before. It's deja vu.


Jock stiffs horse in lane. Gallops out just fine.

Then tells outrider...."Yeah get me the ambulance. She didn't feel right".

Tells owner she didn't feel right and covers up stiff job.

I was born at night but not last night.

If that horse was LAME THERE IS NO WAY HE GALLOPS THE HORSE OUT ANOTHER 1/8 SO WELL.

If the jock wanted to stiff the horse, why would he put him in a position to be close to start with?

By the way, The X Files tv show is coming back next month with 6 episodes. If they havent completed shooting all 6 episodes perhaps you might have a good script for the producers to read.

ultracapper
12-20-2015, 08:48 PM
Chart notes support your viewpoint. I had money on the race and was happy to see that horse pass the well supported favorite, and then furious when the fav came back on. The money may have blurred my view. I'll retract my complaint for this ride if Perez was looking out for the horse's well being.

EMD4ME
12-20-2015, 08:48 PM
If the jock wanted to stiff the horse, why would he put him in a position to be close to start with?

By the way, The X Files tv show is coming back next month with 6 episodes. If they havent completed shooting all 6 episodes perhaps you might have a good script for the producers to read.

Because they are brain dead.

2) Thanks, I actually love the X Files and can't wait for the return. :)


Answer this question please.......

If the jock realized the horse was lame and wanted to let up at the 1/8 pole...why not pull the horse up?

Part 2: If the horse was let up on because the horse felt lame, why gallop out so far down the lane?????

theiman
12-20-2015, 08:50 PM
Because they are brain dead.

2) Thanks, I actually love the X Files and can't wait for the return. :)


Answer this question please.......

If the jock realized the horse was lame and wanted to let up at the 1/8 pole...why not pull the horse up?

Part 2: If the horse was let up on because the horse felt lame, why gallop out so far down the lane?????

Better question, are you a former jock or exercise rider, or ever been on a horse that you didnt have to put $.25 into a slot to ride?

EMD4ME
12-20-2015, 08:53 PM
If you watch the replay till they gallop out till the 5/8 pole, the 4 is actually galloping out PASSED THE WINNER, welllll past the finish line.


I don't buy that the jock thought this horse was lame (All of a sudden at the 1/16 pole).

EMD4ME
12-20-2015, 08:55 PM
Better question, are you a former jock or exercise rider, or ever been on a horse that you didnt have to put $.25 into a slot to ride?

Nice attempt to deflect....:)

Common sense. Horse suddenly becomes lame, you pull up, jump off, call vet.

Not gallop out FIRST 3 furlongs AFTER the finish line.

For the record, have gotten on retired horses. No helmet, no jock strap, just me and the horse.

EMD4ME
12-20-2015, 08:58 PM
And before you start crediting the chart caller......


Chart callers are just like WWE announcers. They have very little credibility.

Donttellmeshowme
12-20-2015, 09:05 PM
Everyone is so critical of the jock for not putting forth a effort on the horse. Yall have no idea what that jock feels under a horse. I bet all yall so called trainers think every horse feels great, every horse feels no pain, and every horse is equal in terms of feeling good and feeling no pain. Wrongggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg....


Some of these clueless trainers dont even give bute or banamine or do the vet work on a horse that should be done. Next time you see a jock not getting after the horse or riding the horse to the wire like other jocks are doing ask yourself "I wonder if that horse doesnt feel right underneath." Maybe thats the reason the jock is not riding like the other jocks. Let me leave you with this. If you not winning races or hitting the board 1-2-3 then you not doing the necessary vet work on the horse. There you have it flame away boys....

whodoyoulike
12-20-2015, 09:05 PM
Before you Scrooges crucify a jock, during the holiday season, please read the chart comment I copied below.

NO CITY LIMITS bumped at the start, stalked inside, came out
on the turn and three deep into the stretch, angled to the inside in the drive, was eased up late and was edged for second, then did
not return to be unsaddled and was vanned off.

Thanks for your post clarifying what possibly occurred. I had to look at the replay and chart because of the OP's rant and was ready to respond in a similar fashion as yours.

Again, thanks.

HuggingTheRail
12-20-2015, 09:14 PM
Maybe Perez thought he was back at Hastings - home of the 500 foot stretch??

Stillriledup
12-20-2015, 09:22 PM
Before you Scrooges crucify a jock, during the holiday season, please read the chart comment I copied below.

NO CITY LIMITS bumped at the start, stalked inside, came out
on the turn and three deep into the stretch, angled to the inside in the drive, was eased up late and was edged for second, then did
not return to be unsaddled and was vanned off.

The horse galloped past the winner while being strangled. You gotta ride the mount out or pull the horse up, you can't sort of half assed pull the horse up. Also, bettors aren't interested in a pinhead jock playing trainer or vet, you're a jockey, just ride hard to the end, but these days it seems like too much to ask.

If the horse is lame, pull the horse up to a compete stop ASAP, either do that or ride the hair off the horse, you can't sorta pull the horse up, it's bad for perception.

whodoyoulike
12-20-2015, 10:38 PM
The horse is a 3yo f FTS running in a MC20 and the only one running w/o Lasix. I wouldn't be surprised if she bled and basically stopped. You should place her on your watch list to see when she returns and if she returns with Lasix.

I've always felt that every MC has something wrong with them. And, you shouldn't be surprised when they don't run as you expect unless you're a terrible handicapper.

PaceAdvantage
12-20-2015, 10:49 PM
You ever look up into a cloudy sky and see a face in the clouds...a horse up there perhaps...maybe a dog?

That's what's happening lately with all these "fixed" threads. Some of you just sit around watching races, waiting for something unusual to happen so you can post another "hey man, what the hell was that?!" thread.

Ever heard the expression "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?" Really people, not every race is fixed.

Stillriledup
12-20-2015, 11:12 PM
Everyone is so critical of the jock for not putting forth a effort on the horse. Yall have no idea what that jock feels under a horse. I bet all yall so called trainers think every horse feels great, every horse feels no pain, and every horse is equal in terms of feeling good and feeling no pain. Wrongggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg....


Some of these clueless trainers dont even give bute or banamine or do the vet work on a horse that should be done. Next time you see a jock not getting after the horse or riding the horse to the wire like other jocks are doing ask yourself "I wonder if that horse doesnt feel right underneath." Maybe thats the reason the jock is not riding like the other jocks. Let me leave you with this. If you not winning races or hitting the board 1-2-3 then you not doing the necessary vet work on the horse. There you have it flame away boys....

I love your work here at PA but I'm going to respectfully disagree. Jocks are paid to ride, not determine If a horse 'feels funny'. I would need a lot of hands and a lot of fingers to count how many 'funny moving' horses ive seen on tape that get ridden hard to the wire and then come back the next race, move funny again, get ridden hard again in rinse and repeat fashion.

There are a lot of cheapies out there with aches, pains and bad gaits and taped up to their eyeballs, those horses are not going to feel as smooth as a baby's bottom to the jock, if you're a jock who's 'soft' and don't want to ride rough moving horses, stay out of the cheap races.

If the trainer and ontrack vet pass the horse to run, your job as jock is to ride hard all the way, if you want to play trainer, retire from riding and become a trainer, otherwise, ride hard and leave the training to the trainers and the vet work to the vets.

If a horse is too lame for you to ride, pull him up to a stop immediately, if you don't immediately pull him up, I'm going to expect you to at least stay in your crouch riding to the wire, I'm pretty sure I'm not asking for too much.

SuperPickle
12-20-2015, 11:30 PM
You ever look up into a cloudy sky and see a face in the clouds...a horse up there perhaps...maybe a dog?

That's what's happening lately with all these "fixed" threads. Some of you just sit around watching races, waiting for something unusual to happen so you can post another "hey man, what the hell was that?!" thread.

Ever heard the expression "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?" Really people, not every race is fixed.

Noooooooooo it's all fixed. Every race.

My favorite part is how the fixing always involved a horse finishing second. Now I've met people who've fixed races, read testimony from racing fixing cases and read books and newspaper articles about it. I've never heard of a confirm fixed race to get a horse to finish second.

But yet here at PA it's a regularity.

Stillriledup
12-21-2015, 02:48 AM
You ever look up into a cloudy sky and see a face in the clouds...a horse up there perhaps...maybe a dog?

That's what's happening lately with all these "fixed" threads. Some of you just sit around watching races, waiting for something unusual to happen so you can post another "hey man, what the hell was that?!" thread.

Ever heard the expression "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?" Really people, not every race is fixed.

There are plenty of comments that just discuss jocks failing to ride out and that has nothing to do with 'fixed races'. Let's hold these jocks to a higher standard.

ultracapper
12-21-2015, 04:31 AM
The horse galloped past the winner while being strangled. You gotta ride the mount out or pull the horse up, you can't sort of half assed pull the horse up. Also, bettors aren't interested in a pinhead jock playing trainer or vet, you're a jockey, just ride hard to the end, but these days it seems like too much to ask.

If the horse is lame, pull the horse up to a compete stop ASAP, either do that or ride the hair off the horse, you can't sorta pull the horse up, it's bad for perception.

If you took a poll of members of this board, "If a jockey suspected his mount has incurred an injury while racing, should the jock A) ease the horse, or B) ride the horse hard through the wire, I would bet, by a margin of probably 3 to 1, "A" would carry the poll. I, and you, have read plenty of posters on this board say that the horse's well being is more important than securing a placing in one particular race. I believe that bettors ARE interested in jockeys making those kind of decisions on the race course. Sure, you're disappointed to beat hell that your bet is flushed, but most bettors aren't interested in hearing about horses being injured on the race course, and would be even less interested in hearing a jockey had aggravated it further by pushing a mount that the jock suspected may be in distress.

Edit: I know I would vote "A". I've bet plenty of horses that have broken down visibly on the race course, as every one on this board has. I hate losing the money, but I get over it pretty quick. The visual of the horse breaking down.......not nearly as quick.

I made my comments based on the belief Perez had no reason to ease up. Unfortunately, we see that more often than we should. One time is too many. But if I would have believed the horse was in distress, I wouldn't have thought twice about posting.

Stillriledup
12-21-2015, 04:44 AM
If you took a poll of members of this board, "If a jockey suspected his mount has incurred an injury while racing, should the jock A) ease the horse, or B) ride the horse hard through the wire, I would bet, by a margin of probably 3 to 1, "A" would carry the poll. I, and you, have read plenty of posters on this board say that the horse's well being is more important than securing a placing in one particular race. I believe that bettors ARE interested in jockeys making those kind of decisions on the race course. Sure, you're disappointed to beat hell that your bet is flushed, but most bettors aren't interested in hearing about horses being injured on the race course, and would be even less interested in hearing a jockey had aggravated it further by pushing a mount that the jock suspected may be in distress.

What we are discussing has zero to do with horse safety. we are talking about jockeys making decisions to not ride hard to the wire. I've already said a million times that if a horse is injured to pull the horse up immediately to a stop as soon as possible. If that scenario doesn't happen, I want the guy to ride his mount out through the wire.

v j stauffer
12-21-2015, 04:59 AM
You ever look up into a cloudy sky and see a face in the clouds...a horse up there perhaps...maybe a dog?

That's what's happening lately with all these "fixed" threads. Some of you just sit around watching races, waiting for something unusual to happen so you can post another "hey man, what the hell was that?!" thread.

Ever heard the expression "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?" Really people, not every race is fixed.

You had a good day. Another solid post.

ultracapper
12-21-2015, 05:04 AM
The point of this thread is Perez not riding the horse through the wire. It has turned out that there's reason to believe the horse may have not been right. Therefore, the thread needs to discuss horse safety in order to stay on topic with this thread.

I understand the little corner that you have decided to sit in on this thread doesn't have anything to do with horse safety, that it has just become another opportunity for you to bitch about pinheads, but we are discussing the ride Perez gave the 4 horse in the 9th at Los Alamitos. We are discussing a specific ride.

There is reason to believe the reason he didn't ride her through the wire is because he felt there was something wrong with her. Therefore, if we are going to be critical of Perez's ride in this race, we now have to take the horse's safety into account. See how it all ties together? If it turns out the horse really wasn't hurt, then we can all join you in your little corner, but until then, you get to sit alone.

Also, you are the one that brought up that us bettors have no interest in the jockey assessing his mount's physical condition during the race. I tend to believe your opinion of what the bettors want to see from the jockey is wrong. If you do not want to discuss an issue, don't make it a part of your post, and then follow it up with a later post saying that this discussion has nothing to do with that. It makes it look like all you want to do is hijack threads to babble about whatever is chaffing your ass at the moment, and then taking zero responsibility for first, not staying on topic, and then not taking ownership of your babbling.

I know, that's the beauty of the internet, but do yourself a favor, don't be one of "those guys".

tanner12oz
12-21-2015, 06:30 AM
After pulling him up he galloped out strong cuz he was a hurry to get to the van

Stillriledup
12-21-2015, 07:10 AM
The point of this thread is Perez not riding the horse through the wire. It has turned out that there's reason to believe the horse may have not been right. Therefore, the thread needs to discuss horse safety in order to stay on topic with this thread.

I understand the little corner that you have decided to sit in on this thread doesn't have anything to do with horse safety, that it has just become another opportunity for you to bitch about pinheads, but we are discussing the ride Perez gave the 4 horse in the 9th at Los Alamitos. We are discussing a specific ride.

There is reason to believe the reason he didn't ride her through the wire is because he felt there was something wrong with her. Therefore, if we are going to be critical of Perez's ride in this race, we now have to take the horse's safety into account. See how it all ties together? If it turns out the horse really wasn't hurt, then we can all join you in your little corner, but until then, you get to sit alone.

Also, you are the one that cbrought up that us bettors have no interest in the jockey assessing his mount's physical condition during the race. I tend to believe your opinion of what the bettors want to see from the jockey is wrong. If you do not want to discuss an issue, don't make it a part of your post, and then follow it up with a later post saying that this discussion has nothing to do with that. It makes it look like all you want to do is hijack threads to babble about whatever is chaffing your ass at the moment, and then taking zero responsibility for first, not staying on topic, and then not taking ownership of your babbling.

I know, that's the beauty of the internet, but do yourself a favor, don't be one of "those guys".

If this has to do with Perezs specific ride in a specific race, why the diatribe against me? Why doesn't every syllable in your post talk about the race? It's not a good look to say the point of the thread is 'this' but then write a novel about something else.

Let me clarify my position and try and make it as easy to understand as possible.

If you're the jock who didn't immediately pull the horse up to a stop, you don't get to use safety as the reason you didn't persevere with your mount.

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 07:24 AM
After pulling him up he galloped out strong cuz he was a hurry to get to the van


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Everyone ignores this minor tidbit of information....

Kash$
12-21-2015, 07:26 AM
You ever look up into a cloudy sky and see a face in the clouds...a horse up there perhaps...maybe a dog?

That's what's happening lately with all these "fixed" threads. Some of you just sit around watching races, waiting for something unusual to happen so you can post another "hey man, what the hell was that?!" thread.

Ever heard the expression "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?" Really people, not every race is fixed.

Ever heard the expression "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?" Really people, not every race is fixed.[/QUOTE]

The problem is no race should ever be fix

chiguy
12-21-2015, 11:18 AM
I had a decent 10/4,5 exacta in the race. Was counting my money when the 4 stopped running. Something was wrong with the horse, you could clearly see it. I don't believe for a second that the jock thought that would look good for his future prospects. I was next to a guy who had a BIG win/place bet on the 4 and he thought something had gone wrong with him as well.

ultracapper
12-21-2015, 01:57 PM
I had a decent 10/4,5 exacta in the race. Was counting my money when the 4 stopped running. Something was wrong with the horse, you could clearly see it. I don't believe for a second that the jock thought that would look good for his future prospects. I was next to a guy who had a BIG win/place bet on the 4 and he thought something had gone wrong with him as well.

I made my initial post because I've noticed that Perez may be developing a habit of not riding through the wire. It was an indictment based on this observation that compelled me to make the initial comments. I wasn't even considering that the horse may have went wrong, I just knew who the jock was, and I jumped to my initial conclusion because of it. I want to be clear that I wasn't inferring at all that 1) there was any fix involved, or 2) that jocks not riding through the wire is some industry-wide phenomenon. I've just noticed that Fernando Perez is developing a maddening habit of not riding through the wire, and I initially felt that I had been bitten by him in this race.

I haven't gone back and watched the replay of this race since I saw it live, but I'll say once again, if the horse was in distress, I support his actions in this particular case. I'll also reiterate that he's developing this habit when the horse isn't in any observable distress, and I hope he addresses it sooner than later, and knocks it off.

Stillriledup
12-21-2015, 02:03 PM
I made my initial post because I've noticed that Perez may be developing a habit of not riding through the wire. It was an indictment based on this observation that compelled me to make the initial comments. I wasn't even considering that the horse may have went wrong, I just knew who the jock was, and I jumped to my initial conclusion because of it. I want to be clear that I wasn't inferring at all that 1) there was any fix involved, or 2) that jocks not riding through the wire is some industry-wide phenomenon. I've just noticed that Fernando Perez is developing a maddening habit of not riding through the wire, and I initially felt that I had been bitten by him in this race.

I haven't gone back and watched the replay of this race since I saw it live, but I'll say once again, if the horse was in distress, I support his actions in this particular case. I'll also reiterate that he's developing this habit when the horse isn't in any observable distress, and I hope he addresses it sooner than later, and knocks it off.

Perez does have a habit of this stuff so when I heard he was the culprit, I wasnt surprised. You're right in your observations about him in general.

theiman
12-21-2015, 02:45 PM
I've just noticed that Fernando Perez is developing a maddening habit of not riding through the wire, and I initially felt that I had been bitten by him in this race.



Do me a favor, if you see another race where, Perez, or any jock, does not ride thru to the wire, please post the details. I would like to watch the tape(s) of these races.

whodoyoulike
12-21-2015, 04:53 PM
Noooooooooo it's all fixed. Every race.

My favorite part is how the fixing always involved a horse ...

But yet here at PA it's a regularity.

My favorite is how it's always certain people who claim a fix is in whenever their horse selection(s) fail or just maybe they're not as observant as their claims.

And, I agree with you that it's being posted on here with regularity.

Stillriledup
12-21-2015, 05:11 PM
I'm not familiar with the difference between complaints about jocks who don't finish string and people specifically saying that a jock who blew a board spot due to a weak ride was because the race was fixed. If anyone here can point me to the specific post or posts that suggest the reason a jock 'stopped riding' was due to the race being fixed, I'd really appreciate that.

chiguy
12-21-2015, 06:41 PM
I made my initial post because I've noticed that Perez may be developing a habit of not riding through the wire. It was an indictment based on this observation that compelled me to make the initial comments. I wasn't even considering that the horse may have went wrong, I just knew who the jock was, and I jumped to my initial conclusion because of it. I want to be clear that I wasn't inferring at all that 1) there was any fix involved, or 2) that jocks not riding through the wire is some industry-wide phenomenon. I've just noticed that Fernando Perez is developing a maddening habit of not riding through the wire, and I initially felt that I had been bitten by him in this race.

I haven't gone back and watched the replay of this race since I saw it live, but I'll say once again, if the horse was in distress, I support his actions in this particular case. I'll also reiterate that he's developing this habit when the horse isn't in any observable distress, and I hope he addresses it sooner than later, and knocks it off.

He may or may not have the problem of riding to the wire but this race was way different. The horse stopped at the eight pole. An exercise rider that was at my table said he banged the gate coming out and he might have been amiss by the time they straightened away.

RunDustyRun
12-21-2015, 07:05 PM
I made my initial post because I've noticed that Perez may be developing a habit of not riding through the wire. It was an indictment based on this observation that compelled me to make the initial comments. I wasn't even considering that the horse may have went wrong, I just knew who the jock was, and I jumped to my initial conclusion because of it. I want to be clear that I wasn't inferring at all that 1) there was any fix involved, or 2) that jocks not riding through the wire is some industry-wide phenomenon. I've just noticed that Fernando Perez is developing a maddening habit of not riding through the wire, and I initially felt that I had been bitten by him in this race.

I haven't gone back and watched the replay of this race since I saw it live, but I'll say once again, if the horse was in distress, I support his actions in this particular case. I'll also reiterate that he's developing this habit when the horse isn't in any observable distress, and I hope he addresses it sooner than later, and knocks it off.

I just don't think he rides well at Los Al with the long stretch...seems to be accelerating in the middle of the turn instead of waiting, and his horses are hanging in deep stretch....he's also been clearly passed up in the colony by Santiago Gonzalez, who I really rate, and his horses aren't as good as what he was riding six months ago....long way to say I don't think we should put the Kent D stigma on him just yet, but I bet Kent D all day long as well in verticals

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 07:11 PM
Ever heard the expression "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?" Really people, not every race is fixed.

The problem is no race should ever be fix[/QUOTE]

Too many tooth fairy fans in this world and believers that all is fair and equal.

You are 1000000000% correct. Even if 1 race in 100,000 is fixed, that's one too many. This game needs to FIX it's repulsive image. Defending and constantly ignoring suspect incidents does NOT instill consumer confidence.

Please allow me to define my version of fixed. Any horse that has been "juiced". Any horse that is slowed down via drugs/jock holds. Any race where 1/2/3 jocks don't go to allow a lone leader etc. etc. etc.

I find it AMAZING that people quickly defend this game and act like anyone who screams fix/stiff job is psycho.

Maybe it's because the people that quickly defend this game are in the industry and they are 1 of the many who profit tremendously from it.

Maybe if those same people handled $500,000 a year, $2,000,000 a year or lived OFF OF the game via betting in any amount, they wouldn't be so quick to defend the bullcrap that goes on out there.

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 07:15 PM
He may or may not have the problem of riding to the wire but this race was way different. The horse stopped at the eight pole. An exercise rider that was at my table said he banged the gate coming out and he might have been amiss by the time they straightened away.

Was the horse amiss as the horse made an excellent mid race move (which was well after the gate brush)?

With that said.....

This is very simple everyone.

To all the defenders out there........

Jock pulled up inside the 1/8 pole because (Supposedly) the horse was amiss.

THEN WHY THE HELL DID HE GALLOP THE HORSE OUT FIRST, 3/8 OF A MILE AFTER THE WIRE AND 1/2 OF A MILE AFTER THE MOMENT THE HORSE WAS LET UP ON??????????????????????????

At best, we have an assinine jock who should be arrested for recklass horselaughter. At worst, we have a stiff job.

I don't care which one it is.

1) It is terrible press

2) It leaves a terrible taste in any hardcore player AND/OR racing fan of the game.

He should not be ALLOWED to ever ride again.

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 07:20 PM
My favorite is how it's always certain people who claim a fix is in whenever their horse selection(s) fail or just maybe they're not as observant as their claims.

And, I agree with you that it's being posted on here with regularity.

1) This coming from a player who never heard of Freehold.............Credibility SHOT. :lol:

2) I didn't bet this race. So, if you think the people who are complaining are not that observant...then again, please explain to me how this horse takes off and gallops out amazingly in the ensuing 1/2 MILE after the jock decides to let up.

I'm sure the year 4016 will come before you answer the question in point #2 and if you do answer, it will be some sort of deflect (which is something you are extremely good at).

johnhannibalsmith
12-21-2015, 07:20 PM
... should be arrested for recklass horselaughter....

This definitely caused me to engage in some very questionable horse laughter.

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 07:22 PM
This definitely caused me to engage in some very questionable horse laughter.

I'm a HHHHHUUUUGGGEEEEE animal lover.

Yes, there is a law for manslaughter. I see no reason why animals shouldn't be protected as well. If they are not, shame on the people in charge in that state.

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 07:26 PM
If you're the jock who didn't immediately pull the horse up to a stop, you don't get to use safety as the reason you didn't persevere with your mount.

This says it best.

How can anyone rebut this statement is beyond me.

RunDustyRun
12-21-2015, 07:37 PM
Based on the best case scenario for Perez, I'm thinking the horse bled and it wasn't a leg issue where the horse would immediately need to be pulled up....maybe the horse was bleeding and the airway was obstructed but upon letting up it was better....just playing devil's Advocate because I have never noticed this jockey riding in any way suspiciously....I've always thought of him as slightly better than average, especially on turf

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 07:40 PM
Based on the best case scenario for Perez, I'm thinking the horse bled and it wasn't a leg issue where the horse would immediately need to be pulled up....maybe the horse was bleeding and the airway was obstructed but upon letting up it was better....just playing devil's Advocate because I have never noticed this jockey riding in any way suspiciously....I've always thought of him as slightly better than average, especially on turf

I can understand a terrible human being not pulling up completely so that they can salvage 3rd but WHY NOT PULL UP somewhat quickly after the wire? Why gallop out FIRST (after being beaten so many lengths) 3/8 of a mile AFTER the wire?

Who does that??? Assuming no stiff job occurred.....what kind of horseman is this jockey?????

What.....???? Did he want to save gas for the ambulance and wanted to meet them on the backstretch? What kind of sick person gallops out so well with a hurting horse????

RunDustyRun
12-21-2015, 07:43 PM
maybe the bleeding needed to be stopped ASAP...maybe he screwed up...his agent would be smart to release a statement about what really happened

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 07:49 PM
maybe the bleeding needed to be stopped ASAP...maybe he screwed up...his agent would be smart to release a statement about what really happened

In the real world, innocent till proven guilty.

In horse racing, guilty till proven innocent with situations like this. (as hardcore players will have a seed planted that something was weird in that race and lose betting confidence AND would need some sort of REAL explanation/proof that it wasn't a stiff job).

If those (the example you just gave) are the scenarios that people hug and endorse to make themselves feel better about this game, we're all in deep doo doo as this game is on a death spiral. (no offense to you. talking about this game in general).

whodoyoulike
12-21-2015, 08:01 PM
I'm a HHHHHUUUUGGGEEEEE animal lover.

Yes, there is a law for manslaughter. I see no reason why animals shouldn't be protected as well. If they are not, shame on the people in charge in that state.

Yes, you may be one of the people who think they are very observant but, you still probably don't understand johnhannibal's post.

And, it was pointed out that Freehold is a harness track which I seldom pay attention in handicapping races there are a number of TB tracks which I haven't played and don't even know their names.

Btw, I don't really care about your observation of your point #2 or whether it's even true.

SuperPickle
12-21-2015, 08:09 PM
My favorite part of the thread is when SRU decided that a horse should never be eased only pulled up or ridden out to the wire.

I don't even know how to respond to that one. It's that crazy.

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 08:16 PM
My favorite part of the thread is when SRU decided that a horse should never be eased only pulled up or ridden out to the wire.

I don't even know how to respond to that one. It's that crazy.

Eased is fine, if the horse is dead tired or "off". I have a problem with not pulling up a lame horse.

We saw it just an hour earlier. Dipshit Numbskull has his horse break down and refuses to pull up and jump off. Horse collapses in a heartbeat, head first.

To the people who are claiming the horse was lame....How DARE they not have a problem with Perez's gallop out?

To those who see a stiff job, the gallop out is even more infuriating AS THE HORSE OBVIOUSLY WAS NOT TIRED.

Stillriledup
12-21-2015, 08:16 PM
My favorite part of the thread is when SRU decided that a horse should never be eased only pulled up or ridden out to the wire.

I don't even know how to respond to that one. It's that crazy.

Help me.

Help you.

Are you saying that if a jock thinks something is wrong he should slow the horse up and gallop him around the first turn? I'm not following what you're saying.

SuperPickle
12-21-2015, 08:28 PM
Help me.

Help you.

Are you saying that if a jock thinks something is wrong he should slow the horse up and gallop him around the first turn? I'm not following what you're saying.

Well when your car goes bad on the 405 or the 10 do you violently slam on the breaks in the middle of the road or do you take your foot off the gas, maneuvere to the shoulder and glide to a stop?

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 08:30 PM
Yes, you may be one of the people who think they are very observant but, you still probably don't understand johnhannibal's post.

And, it was pointed out that Freehold is a harness track which I seldom pay attention in handicapping races there are a number of TB tracks which I haven't played and don't even know their names.

Btw, I don't really care about your observation of your point #2 or whether it's even true.

Oh I understood his post. (By the way....you need new material. Your inferiority complex when it comes to intelligence is extremely evident via your projections on to others. I have a few good clients who are psychologists that can help you with your issues. They can even find a way to leverage your insurance or medicare if need be sir).

I don't bet harness either but know of Freehold, Yonkers, The Meadowlands, Northfield, Woodbine, Mohawk, The Red Mile, Pompano, Pocono Downs, Batavia, Saratoga Harness, Scioto Downs, Roosevelt, Northville, Cal Expo and countless others).

You admit to not even knowing of many TB tracks.

No offense, you're not even in my league. I have no idea why I even interact with such a fake fan as yourself.


Finally, of course you deflected point #2. I told you, you would in advance. It's all about your personal agenda in your posts to me. Logic and humane discussion is foreign to someone of your ilk.

It may be hard, but please, get a life. The more you speak, the more you embarrass and bury yourself. Unless you like to live underground, please stop. You're already at ground level.

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 08:33 PM
Well when your car goes bad on the 405 or the 10 do you violently slam on the breaks in the middle of the road or do you take your foot off the gas, maneuvere to the shoulder and glide to a stop?

Wait SRU, forgive me, I got this one.....

I was going 80 when a tire blew out....stayed calm, no breaks. Avoided death and slowed down relatively quickly while I rolled my left window down and waived to others to pass.

Calmly got out, crossed across 4 lanes to safety.

What I didn't do is let up, wait till I slowed down considerably and then try and let it be known that my car is totally fine (while my tire ripped off the rim) by continuining to drive it for another 1/2 mile at a healthy speed.

SuperPickle
12-21-2015, 08:38 PM
Wait SRU, forgive me, I got this one.....

I was going 80 when a tire blew out....stayed calm, no breaks. Avoided death and slowed down relatively quickly while I rolled my left window down and waived to others to pass.

Calmly got out, crossed across 4 lanes to safety.

What I didn't do is let up, wait till I slowed down considerably and then try and let it be known that my car is totally fine (while my tire ripped off the rim) by continuining to drive it for another 1/2 mile at a healthy speed.


Yeah but correct me if I'm wrong you don't know what was wrong with the horse? He could have bled, soft tissue, etc.

His foot was not a mangeled tire.

EMD4ME
12-21-2015, 08:46 PM
Yeah but correct me if I'm wrong you don't know what was wrong with the horse? He could have bled, soft tissue, etc.

His foot was not a mangeled tire.

Look, I don't know how else I can explain this.....

I'll try 1 last time.

If the jock "eased" according to you and others because the horse BLED, soft tissue, lost a contact lense, had a sudden case of diarrhea, dropped his cell phone, lost a shoe, broke a heel, got wax in his ears, pidgeon droppings landed on his eyes etc....... AND

The jock decided to ease him for his safety.....

THEN..................

WHY would he not ease the horse at a more accelerated rate right after the wire?

WHY would he allow the horse to gallop out like a tremendous machine?

If the was protecting the horse by slowing the horse down at the 1/8 pole, WHY NOT slow the horse down after the wire for the ensuing 1/2 mile???

Maybe I have lost my ability to communicate. I don't know what else to say.

Maybe very few people out there actually watch gallop outs?

Is there a vet out there in PA land? Is there any circumstance where a jock SHOULD allow a horse to wind out for a while if the horse is off?

If there is, then I'll apologize but I think the question is a great one.....

HOW CAN A JOCK WHO REFUSES TO ALLOW A HORSE TO FINISH WELL then 6-10 seconds later NOT slow a horse down (that he thinks is off)?

arw629
12-21-2015, 09:13 PM
I have no problem with what happened ...jock felt there was an issue and eased the horse...why are there 5 pages of comments?

castaway01
12-21-2015, 11:52 PM
I have no problem with what happened ...jock felt there was an issue and eased the horse...why are there 5 pages of comments?

Because there are a few people on this site who are trying to up their post count and/or are not too bright? Welcome to gambling. Be glad they are out there and hope they put their money in the pools (most of them don't, sadly).

Stillriledup
12-22-2015, 12:02 AM
I have no problem with what happened ...jock felt there was an issue and eased the horse...why are there 5 pages of comments?

Because the jock didn't pull the horse up to a stop to possibly prevent further injury or trauma. He kept going. What some of us are trying to figure out is why not slow the horse to a stop as quickly as possible, dismount and wait for assistance.

SuperPickle
12-22-2015, 12:47 AM
Because there are a few people on this site who are trying to up their post count and/or are not too bright? Welcome to gambling. Be glad they are out there and hope they put their money in the pools (most of them don't, sadly).

Because here like everywhere else these days we have our herd of conspiracy theorists. Much like the people who you insist jet blue can't melt steel beams, Kubrik shot the moon landing and there's no way Oswald can make that shot in that time we have people who have formed their equine tinfoil hat brigade.

They hate the term conspiracy theorist and prefer the term truth seeker or skeptic. But they're conspiracy theorists. You can tell because like the people mentioned above whenever there is a logical explanation to an event they use unknown facts in the explanation to wedge in sinister theories and dismiss widely held theories.

In this case no one knows Valdez pulled up his horse the way he did except himself. Is it most likely a simple explanation? Yes. But since we don't know lets plug in the hole with sinister theories. Maybe he was not trying to win the race? But the chart caller said the horse was lame? What if the chart caller is in on it? But what about the state vet? What if I told you the vet and the chart caller knew each other?

And the plot thickens and the tin foil tightens...

Stillriledup
12-22-2015, 02:40 AM
Because here like everywhere else these days we have our herd of conspiracy theorists. Much like the people who you insist jet blue can't melt steel beams, Kubrik shot the moon landing and there's no way Oswald can make that shot in that time we have people who have formed their equine tinfoil hat brigade.

They hate the term conspiracy theorist and prefer the term truth seeker or skeptic. But they're conspiracy theorists. You can tell because like the people mentioned above whenever there is a logical explanation to an event they use unknown facts in the explanation to wedge in sinister theories and dismiss widely held theories.

In this case no one knows Valdez pulled up his horse the way he did except himself. Is it most likely a simple explanation? Yes. But since we don't know lets plug in the hole with sinister theories. Maybe he was not trying to win the race? But the chart caller said the horse was lame? What if the chart caller is in on it? But what about the state vet? What if I told you the vet and the chart caller knew each other?

And the plot thickens and the tin foil tightens...

This type of post sidesteps the issue at hand. It's a separate discussion. A topic can be started about 'conspiracy theorists' but that line of thinking has nothing to do with FH Perez not riding his mount out through the wire.

NorCalGreg
12-22-2015, 04:58 AM
This type of post sidesteps the issue at hand. It's a separate discussion. A topic can be started about 'conspiracy theorists' but that line of thinking has nothing to do with.....Oswald and the impossibility of his being able to fire a bolt-action rifle with any accuracy 3 times in the space of 1.9 seconds.

Your "point" can fit damn near anything.

Stillriledup
12-22-2015, 05:59 AM
Your "point" can fit damn near anything.

What does this have to do with FH Perez and the race in question, cmon now.

NorCalGreg
12-22-2015, 06:20 AM
What does this have to do with FH Perez and the race in question, cmon now.

nothing at all.........was just inspired by pickle's "equine tinfoil hat brigade" post --I copied that, when the time comes that is my nomination for

POST OF THE YEAR

sheer brilliance :ThmbUp:

NorCalGreg
12-22-2015, 06:21 AM
Because here like everywhere else these days we have our herd of conspiracy theorists. Much like the people who you insist jet blue can't melt steel beams, Kubrik shot the moon landing and there's no way Oswald can make that shot in that time we have people who have formed their equine tinfoil hat brigade.

They hate the term conspiracy theorist and prefer the term truth seeker or skeptic. But they're conspiracy theorists. You can tell because like the people mentioned above whenever there is a logical explanation to an event they use unknown facts in the explanation to wedge in sinister theories and dismiss widely held theories.

In this case no one knows Valdez pulled up his horse the way he did except himself. Is it most likely a simple explanation? Yes. But since we don't know lets plug in the hole with sinister theories. Maybe he was not trying to win the race? But the chart caller said the horse was lame? What if the chart caller is in on it? But what about the state vet? What if I told you the vet and the chart caller knew each other?

And the plot thickens and the tin foil tightens...
post #66

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 07:52 AM
Because here like everywhere else these days we have our herd of conspiracy theorists. Much like the people who you insist jet blue can't melt steel beams, Kubrik shot the moon landing and there's no way Oswald can make that shot in that time we have people who have formed their equine tinfoil hat brigade.

They hate the term conspiracy theorist and prefer the term truth seeker or skeptic. But they're conspiracy theorists. You can tell because like the people mentioned above whenever there is a logical explanation to an event they use unknown facts in the explanation to wedge in sinister theories and dismiss widely held theories.

In this case no one knows Valdez pulled up his horse the way he did except himself. Is it most likely a simple explanation? Yes. But since we don't know lets plug in the hole with sinister theories. Maybe he was not trying to win the race? But the chart caller said the horse was lame? What if the chart caller is in on it? But what about the state vet? What if I told you the vet and the chart caller knew each other?

And the plot thickens and the tin foil tightens...

No better or smarter way for an "insider" to deflect appropriate criticism and cause for concern (sorry Tom Durkin, meant no plagarism there :lol: ) than by calling the people who question the video proof: Conspiracy Theorists.

Good job SuperPickle

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 07:55 AM
I have no problem with what happened ...jock felt there was an issue and eased the horse...why are there 5 pages of comments?

Why?

Because not 1 singular defender of Perez has answered WHY the horse was allowed to gallop out so well for 3/8-1/2 a mile AFTER the ease, that's why.

Every defender ignores it and hopes that fact is just that, ignored.

SuperPickle
12-22-2015, 10:51 AM
Why?

Because not 1 singular defender of Perez has answered WHY the horse was allowed to gallop out so well for 3/8-1/2 a mile AFTER the ease, that's why.

Every defender ignores it and hopes that fact is just that, ignored.

But what if Perez was a patsy? A plant? A false flag? What if they knew the horse was lame? They knew he'd have to pull up. They knew SRU and EMD would be suspicious. They knew they'd have to go to a certain horse racing message board to alert the public.

Then they made their move. They fixed another race thousands of miles away. EMD and SRU were powerless to stop them. They needed to tell the world about the Perez mount. Meanwhile they struck. And cashed BIG.

The truth is our there SRU and EMD.

Don't stop looking...

Stillriledup
12-22-2015, 01:15 PM
Well when your car goes bad on the 405 or the 10 do you violently slam on the breaks in the middle of the road or do you take your foot off the gas, maneuvere to the shoulder and glide to a stop?

If my car was a living breathing animal with a heart and a soul, I certainly would make sure nobody was going 60 mph behind me before I pulled to a stop. I don't know if there was some reason Perez continued to not pull the horse up to a stop and dismount when the coast was clear.

chiguy
12-22-2015, 01:37 PM
Was the horse amiss as the horse made an excellent mid race move (which was well after the gate brush)?

With that said.....

This is very simple everyone.

To all the defenders out there........

Jock pulled up inside the 1/8 pole because (Supposedly) the horse was amiss.

THEN WHY THE HELL DID HE GALLOP THE HORSE OUT FIRST, 3/8 OF A MILE AFTER THE WIRE AND 1/2 OF A MILE AFTER THE MOMENT THE HORSE WAS LET UP ON??????????????????????????

At best, we have an assinine jock who should be arrested for recklass horselaughter. At worst, we have a stiff job.

I don't care which one it is.

1) It is terrible press

2) It leaves a terrible taste in any hardcore player AND/OR racing fan of the game.

He should not be ALLOWED to ever ride again.

Why would he put the horse in a position to win or run second, obvious to everyone watching, and THEN stiff him? That makes no sense. The bleeding issue makes the most sense to me. Again I had a vested interest in him running second but I don't think it was a stiff job. You should probably find another hobby, this one doesn't agree with you.

cj
12-22-2015, 02:02 PM
Is anybody actually claiming this was a fix? I thought it was just that the jockey effed up by not riding to the wire and deserves to be called on the carpet. I think that is 100% reasonable.

Now, by this time we all know the "horse didn't feel right" excuse will be used. People are afraid to question that one. But the gallop out certainly casts a shadow on that here.

What am I missing?

Stillriledup
12-22-2015, 02:14 PM
Why would he put the horse in a position to win or run second, obvious to everyone watching, and THEN stiff him? That makes no sense. The bleeding issue makes the most sense to me. Again I had a vested interest in him running second but I don't think it was a stiff job. You should probably find another hobby, this one doesn't agree with you.

Nobody seems to want to answer why the jock didnt pull the horse up all the way and dismount if there was an injury. When we get that question answered , we can move forward.

whodoyoulike
12-22-2015, 06:18 PM
Nobody seems to want to answer why the jock didnt pull the horse up all the way and dismount if there was an injury. When we get that question answered , we can move forward.

Did you watch the replay?

She was moving very well within the stretch when she started slowing and it turns out by being vanned off indicates she had something serious occur. I'm guessing she was probably going about 30 +/- mph from the top of the stretch. It's probably very difficult for a 100 + lb. individual to stop a 1000 +/- lb. moving animal. But, it was probably wise to just let her slow down on her own which extended past the wire. The jockey probably didn't know what was wrong with her. And, remember she was probably hurt at that point and probably had other things on her mind.

I posted a link a number of days ago re: Amazing Video of AP before the Travers in the Handicapper's Corner thread (you should watch it). It should give you an idea just how difficult it is to slow or stop a horse who doesn't want to stop.

ultracapper
12-22-2015, 06:31 PM
Is anybody actually claiming this was a fix? I thought it was just that the jockey effed up by not riding to the wire and deserves to be called on the carpet. I think that is 100% reasonable.

Now, by this time we all know the "horse didn't feel right" excuse will be used. People are afraid to question that one. But the gallop out certainly casts a shadow on that here.

What am I missing?

As one of the co-initial posters of this now merged thread, I will attest that the reason for starting the thread was to simply call out Fernando Perez for not riding through the wire. I accused him of what may be becoming a habit of laziness on this issue, nothing more. Then later, made an allowance to excuse him if the horse proved to have been in distress during the race.

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 06:40 PM
Is anybody actually claiming this was a fix? I thought it was just that the jockey effed up by not riding to the wire and deserves to be called on the carpet. I think that is 100% reasonable.

Now, by this time we all know the "horse didn't feel right" excuse will be used. People are afraid to question that one. But the gallop out certainly casts a shadow on that here.

What am I missing?

I concur and the jock unquestionably did eff up here. The only question that remains is:

1) Did he misjudge the finish line?
2) Were the instructions to not hit the board and at the 1/8 pole did he realize: HOLY CRAP, I am drawing away for a clear 2nd.
3) Did the horse get hurt and did he screw up by not pulling up harder for the ensuing HALF MILE after the point of letting down.

What does the video show? It shows a jock letting up completely inside the 1/8 pole.

Either he 1) detected something was off AND the normal reaction to that would be to hit the brakes in a soft and assertive fashion AND then jump off calling for help. (HE DID NOT DO THAT, HE GALLOPED HIS HORSE OUT 1/2 MILE AHEAD OF THE MULTIPLE LENGTH WINNER)

OR

2) He stopped riding for nefarious reasons. Use your imagination.....

OR

3) He misjudged the finish line. Allowed the horse to gallop out normally (as a healthy and full of run horse) and then thought: HOLY CRAP, I SCREWED UP . Let's cover this up with an excuse that he felt off.

Either way ladies & gentlemen, IT STINKS. It's either incompetence, stupidity or larceny.

I just can't see how anyone, not everyone but how ANY ONE SINGULAR person can not see the issue here.


As Castaway said, be glad some people are in the pools. He is right when he said some people are just not too bright. He was wrong about which side of the fence they were on though.

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 07:06 PM
Did you watch the replay?

She was moving very well within the stretch when she started slowing and it turns out by being vanned off indicates she had something serious occur. I'm guessing she was probably going about 30 +/- mph from the top of the stretch. It's probably very difficult for a 100 + lb. individual to stop a 1000 +/- lb. moving animal. But, it was probably wise to just let her slow down on her own which extended past the wire. The jockey probably didn't know what was wrong with her. And, remember she was probably hurt at that point and probably had other things on her mind.

I posted a link a number of days ago re: Amazing Video of AP before the Travers in the Handicapper's Corner thread (you should watch it). It should give you an idea just how difficult it is to slow or stop a horse who doesn't want to stop.

Are you also the type that said to himself:

That poor wrestler was taken out in an ambulance. He must be severely hurt based upon the events in the ring TONIGHT!




http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127859

Yes, I watched AP's amazing gallop against his shadow and it was an amazing thread with a whopping ZERO posts. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't see how watching a decorated and talented racehorse gallop (against no one but his shadow) has ANYTHING to do with a supposed hurt horse being eased up on inside the 1/8 pole, who then galloped out full of run for 1/2 a mile in a maiden race...........

Yes, genius of the world, it is ALWAYS WISE TO ALLOW A HORSE WHO IS INJURED (to the point of slowing the horse down inside of the 1/8 POLE OF A REAL RACE) to GALLOP OUT FULL OF RUN FOR 2640 feet........

If you believe that, please make me a margarita. Jose Cuevo with lime margarita mix. 1/3 tequila and 2/3 mix over a lot of ice with no salt please.

I want to enjoy a drink as I make my way down your chimney thursday night with your presents.

And before I go, please refer to me as Santa Claus from now on, my real name.

Thank you.

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 07:09 PM
Nobody seems to want to answer why the jock didnt pull the horse up all the way and dismount if there was an injury. When we get that question answered , we can move forward.

You will never get that from these "I love racing as it is and I will bleed the game dry while I make fun of the people who actually wager on this game (and make it happen)."

When you're wrong, you hide.

When you're wrong, you twist the facts.
you deflect from answering directly when asked a direct question.
you attack the accuser to avoid the topic.
you hide and simply ignore point blank questions.
your lack of class shows by hiding and disappearing.

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 07:12 PM
Why would he put the horse in a position to win or run second, obvious to everyone watching, and THEN stiff him? That makes no sense. The bleeding issue makes the most sense to me. Again I had a vested interest in him running second but I don't think it was a stiff job. You should probably find another hobby, this one doesn't agree with you.

You are 100000% correct. The horse bled and when a jock sees blood dripping down the only normal and common reaction is to:

Ease up on the horse inside the final 1/8 and then as soon as they cross the wire, ignore all logic and gallop out like an amazing machine.

Forgive me, I forgot that in handicapping 101.

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 07:16 PM
But what if Perez was a patsy? A plant? A false flag? What if they knew the horse was lame? They knew he'd have to pull up. They knew SRU and EMD would be suspicious. They knew they'd have to go to a certain horse racing message board to alert the public.

Then they made their move. They fixed another race thousands of miles away. EMD and SRU were powerless to stop them. They needed to tell the world about the Perez mount. Meanwhile they struck. And cashed BIG.

The truth is our there SRU and EMD.

Don't stop looking...

Thinking back 10 years to my fond memories of watching FOX look for the truth, I remembered that at some point, I had a freudian slip (in a reply to you) and referred to you as StupidPickle instead of SuperPickle.

It's amazing how the mind can see from far away where someone is coming from :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wasn't a Freudian slip, was a psychic revelation.

Please sell your bullcrap elsewhere.

This smells, it stinks and the only question is which one of 3 reasons were the cause of the smell (misjudged line, stiff job, poor treatment of hurt horse).

Stillriledup
12-22-2015, 07:19 PM
Did you watch the replay?

She was moving very well within the stretch when she started slowing and it turns out by being vanned off indicates she had something serious occur. I'm guessing she was probably going about 30 +/- mph from the top of the stretch. It's probably very difficult for a 100 + lb. individual to stop a 1000 +/- lb. moving animal. But, it was probably wise to just let her slow down on her own which extended past the wire. The jockey probably didn't know what was wrong with her. And, remember she was probably hurt at that point and probably had other things on her mind.

I posted a link a number of days ago re: Amazing Video of AP before the Travers in the Handicapper's Corner thread (you should watch it). It should give you an idea just how difficult it is to slow or stop a horse who doesn't want to stop.

Here's one thing the tape shows, one thing it doesn't show.

1) The shows. It shows that the jock's 'movements' for lack of a better word, changed after the wire. If you watch the head on, you can see the light at the wire, the jock seems to let up just a smidge at the wire, if he was trying to slow up the horse as soon as a problem was felt, the 'wire' wouldn't have changed his 'hold' on the horse, but it seemed to. Also, not sure why the head on cuts off so suddenly, don't know why the camera doesn't follow the gallop outs into the turn, but that's anyone's guess as to why the camera cuts, I guess they figure nobody's watching.

2) the doesn't show. When Perez actually stopped his mount and got off the horses back. Did he gallop the horse back or did he unseat on the backstretch and pick up the van at that point. You would probably have had to been there live to see it or maybe the van driver can remember what point on the track he retrieved the horse.

Your theory on slowing up a horse who weighs 10x more than you do might be easier if the horse is hurting, I would assume a hurting horse would be eager to stop sooner than one who isn't hurting. I would be a little more believing in this if it appeared like he was trying to pull the horse up before the wire, the video seems to suggest he didnt make much of a real attempt to pull the horse to a stop as soon as possible.

NorCalGreg
12-22-2015, 07:22 PM
[QUOTE=cj]Is anybody actually claiming this was a fix?[/QUOTE=cj]


Oh I don't know, CJ......maybe you missed these tidbits:


"He stopped riding for nefarious reasons. Use your imagination....."

"Were the instructions to not hit the board and at the 1/8 pole did he realize: HOLY CRAP, I am drawing away for a clear 2nd"

This crap has been going on for 6 pages!!! Good Lord EMD, give it a rest already. Your replies get longer and longer. The only way you will be happy is if every single board member agrees with you---this race was fixed--Perez stopped riding so he wouldn't finish 2nd- even though you didn't have a dime on this race, it's vitally important we all know the race was fixed.
Get another hobby, man----this one's killing you.

whodoyoulike
12-22-2015, 07:30 PM
Here's one thing the tape shows, one thing it doesn't show. ...
Your theory on slowing up a horse who weighs 10x more than you do might be easier if the horse is hurting, I would assume a hurting horse would be eager to stop sooner than one who isn't hurting. I would be a little more believing in this if it appeared like he was trying to pull the horse up before the wire, the video seems to suggest he didnt make much of a real attempt to pull the horse to a stop as soon as possible.

Well, apparently that may not have been the case in this instance. Each situation is probably different. Again, the jockey at that point probably didn't know how serious or what was wrong with the horse. The horse was moving pretty good until she slowed.

Have you had a chance to watch the referenced video for AP?

Apparently, a heavier exercise rider was unable to pull up a horse over a significantly greater distance but, again it was AP. My point was, it probably isn't as easy to pull up a horse as you think it is.

Lemon Drop Husker
12-22-2015, 07:30 PM
I bet on this race, and was also laughing at the late "fold" by the :4:, but the real question is, who benefited?

It resulted in a Chalk-Chalk $2 Exacta that paid $17. The $1 Trifecta paid $42.80.

Everybody and their dog in the house had the Exacta, so did somebody make "monster" money on the $2.40 that the :9: got paid? :D Even the $1 Super paid a massive $156.40. :faint:

If cheating was going on, who got paid, and how did they chop up this massive amount of winnings? Was there a penny poker game going on later they needed to get in?

Stillriledup
12-22-2015, 07:37 PM
Well, apparently that may not have been the case in this instance. Each situation is probably different. Again, the jockey at that point probably didn't know how serious or what was wrong with the horse. The horse was moving pretty good until she slowed.

Have you had a chance to watch the referenced video for AP?

Apparently, a heavier exercise rider was unable to pull up a horse over a significant greater distance but, again it was AP. My point was, it probably isn't as easy to pull up a horse as you think it is.

Pulling the horse up isn't as important to me as the intent. If I'm going to buy into your idea that some horses are hard to pull up, I need to at least see the guy trying with all his might. It didnt seem like he was trying with all his might.

whodoyoulike
12-22-2015, 07:48 PM
Pulling the horse up isn't as important to me as the intent. If I'm going to buy into your idea that some horses are hard to pull up, I need to at least see the guy trying with all his might. It didnt seem like he was trying with all his might.

Well, you're probably correct again.

Btw, I forget if you've ever mentioned which tracks you usually handicap?

Stillriledup
12-22-2015, 07:56 PM
Well, you're probably correct again.

Btw, I forget if you've ever mentioned which tracks you usually handicap?

Was there something in post 86 you didn't agree with? Did you think he was trying desperately to get a stricken horse to stop so he could get his body weight off the horses back? Did you think his 'stance' on the horse changed as soon as the horse crossed under the wire?

As far as what tracks I handicap, start a thread called 'which tracks do you usually handicap' and maybe ill post in there.

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 08:15 PM
NorCalGreg,

Are you an attorney? Because the exact quote you cited was part of a multiple choice question.

Nevertheless, you guys disappoint me. Big time. This is supposedly the board where the die hards are, the lovers are the game gather.

You guys watch BULLSHIT unfold in front of you and because 90% of you are so DENSENSITIZED to the crap, you defend it.

Sad.

I equate 1 "unique incident" in racing to this 1 analogy:

If your spouses/girlfriends/boyfriends cheated on you JUST once, would you act the same way and defend the behavior? WOULD YOU FIND CONVENIENT EXCUSES to justify that behavior????

If yes, grow some balls and learn to fight for what's right.

If this was a stiff job, off with his head, I say.

If this was a jock who misjudged the line, he deserves a 1 year, all jurisdictions, suspension. That would teach him.

If he galloped out an injured horse for 1/2 a mile and made little attempt to slow the horse down, off with his head again.

If your spouse cheated on you, I am sure you wouldn't react the same way as you do now.

If 1 bet is stolen from me, it's 1 too many pal.

If 1 HORSE IS treated dangerously (if this horse was hurt but not eased up as the horse should've been), that's 1 too many as well.

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 08:27 PM
I bet on this race, and was also laughing at the late "fold" by the :4:, but the real question is, who benefited?

It resulted in a Chalk-Chalk $2 Exacta that paid $17. The $1 Trifecta paid $42.80.

Everybody and their dog in the house had the Exacta, so did somebody make "monster" money on the $2.40 that the :9: got paid? :D Even the $1 Super paid a massive $156.40. :faint:

If cheating was going on, who got paid, and how did they chop up this massive amount of winnings? Was there a penny poker game going on later they needed to get in?

I don't know WHY what happened, I just know it's 1 of 3 scenarios.

To answer your question, you're better off betting a low priced wager if the fix is in as it raises less flags.

Exacta pool was $132,828. 20.18% vig on exactas, net pool of $106,023. There were 12,743 dollars on that exacta. If a $2000 exacta was punched, it would've been a $19.60 exacta without it. Exacta paid $17.00 as it was.

No one questions an exacta that could've been $19.60 vs. $17.00. Especially when it's second choice over first choice.

Jock's share of 2nd place was.....wait for it.....5% of $3400 or $170 bucks.

Chee, I can never see where the POSSIBILITY this horse was choked out inside the 1/8 pole for monetary reasons could eeeever happen... :rolleyes:

Again, I am saying it's one of 3, not saying it was a stiff 100%. No matter which one of 3 it is, I am repulsed. Can't see how others don't see that.

Lemon Drop Husker
12-22-2015, 08:27 PM
Nevertheless, you guys disappoint me. .

I'd love to read your response regarding post #89.

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 08:31 PM
I'd love to read your response regarding post #89.

LDH, I never hide from a single thing, in any aspect of my life. Your wish is my command my friend...

So much so, that I answered before you asked :)

Lemon Drop Husker
12-22-2015, 08:31 PM
I don't know WHY what happened, I just know it's 1 of 3 scenarios.

To answer your question, you're better off betting a low priced wager if the fix is in as it raises less flags.

Exacta pool was $132,828. 20.18% vig on exactas, net pool of $106,023. There were 12,743 dollars on that exacta. If a $2000 exacta was punched, it would've been a $19.60 exacta without it. Exacta paid $17.00 as it was.

No one questions an exacta that could've been $19.60 vs. $17.00. Especially when it's second choice over first choice.

Jock's share of 2nd place was.....wait for it.....5% of $3400 or $170 bucks.

Chee, I can never see where the POSSIBILITY this horse was choked out inside the 1/8 pole for monetary reasons... :rolleyes:

Again, I am saying it's one of 3, not saying it was a stiff 100%. No matter which one of 3 it is, I am repulsed. Can't see how others don't see that.

So we have the Jockey(s), owners, trainers and everybody else in the race involved, and all we are talking about is a couple thousand dollars? :D

If that is a fixed race, then somebody really needed to get into that late night $50 poker game.

EMD4ME
12-22-2015, 08:36 PM
So we have the Jockey(s), owners, trainers and everybody else in the race involved, and all we are talking about is a couple thousand dollars? :D

If that is a fixed race, then somebody really needed to get into that late night $50 poker game.

First, I am not saying it was a fix with conviction. I am saying the jock of the 3rd place finisher behaved in either a repulsive, stupid, nefarious or negligent manner.

Second, not sure what you're talking about. A) $2,000 on a $17 exacta is $17,000. NEVERMIND, TRI'S SUPS PICK 4's etc. B) When does an owner ever have to be involved in any 'fix'? Try never. Mostly it's 2 or 3 pin heads in a room deciding strategy.

Third, what if this was just a cold 2 chalk exacta and the jock knew he was on a live one and just decided to get his horse out of the exacta as he bet the top 2 in a $1,000 box? $2000 returning $8500 is more than $170 taxable.....

Nevertheless, for the umpteenth time, I am NOT saying it was a fix. I know WHAT happened. I just don't know WHY it happened.

It's 1 of 3 reasons. Just like any other disgusting moment in this game, we the public, will never know the truth. Just WHAT happened.

Lemon Drop Husker
12-22-2015, 09:01 PM
First, I am not saying it was a fix with conviction. I am saying the jock of the 3rd place finisher behaved in either a repulsive, stupid, nefarious or negligent manner.

Second, not sure what you're talking about. A) $2,000 on a $17 exacta is $17,000. NEVERMIND, TRI'S SUPS PICK 4's etc. B) When does an owner ever have to be involved in any 'fix'? Try never. Mostly it's 2 or 3 pin heads in a room deciding strategy.

Third, what if this was just a cold 2 chalk exacta and the jock knew he was on a live one and just decided to get his horse out of the exacta as he bet the top 2 in a $1,000 box? $2000 returning $8500 is more than $170 taxable.....

Nevertheless, for the umpteenth time, I am NOT saying it was a fix. I know WHAT happened. I just don't know WHY it happened.

It's 1 of 3 reasons. Just like any other disgusting moment in this game, we the public, will never know the truth. Just WHAT happened.

So now we are talking about Jockeys pooling $2K to get a $17K return in a Chalk-Chalk race.

Now that seems logical. $2K to make $17K. They all split $15K with larger parts split to the guys with "control".

General public still got their share, and the Tri and Super were obviously not hard to have.

Joe Capper (like myself) got burned out of a couple bucks to treat the jockeys. Good. Let them have it.

NorCalGreg
12-22-2015, 10:59 PM
NorCalGreg,

Are you an attorney? Because the exact quote you cited was part of a multiple choice question.

Nevertheless, you guys disappoint me. Big time. This is supposedly the board where the die hards are, the lovers are the game gather.

You guys watch BULLSHIT unfold in front of you and because 90% of you are so DENSENSITIZED to the crap, you defend it.

Sad.

I equate 1 "unique incident" in racing to this 1 analogy:

If your spouses/girlfriends/boyfriends cheated on you JUST once, would you act the same way and defend the behavior? WOULD YOU FIND CONVENIENT EXCUSES to justify that behavior????

If yes, grow some balls and learn to fight for what's right.

If this was a stiff job, off with his head, I say.

If this was a jock who misjudged the line, he deserves a 1 year, all jurisdictions, suspension. That would teach him.

If he galloped out an injured horse for 1/2 a mile and made little attempt to slow the horse down, off with his head again.

If your spouse cheated on you, I am sure you wouldn't react the same way as you do now.

If 1 bet is stolen from me, it's 1 too many pal.

If 1 HORSE IS treated dangerously (if this horse was hurt but not eased up as the horse should've been), that's 1 too many as well.

I don't have to be an attorney to interpret written "signals" "codewords" and blatant accusations you constantly make throughout your disjointed ramblings, EMD. I've hilited your words in just this post alone...but every post you've made is full of these "codewords". Maybe you should be the one to grow some balls and just come out and say what you really mean--the guy --on orders from someone else--or in cahoots with other jockeys--conspired to fix this race--just f****** say it and be done with it already.

Lemon Drop Husker
12-22-2015, 11:24 PM
I don't have to be an attorney to interpret written "signals" "codewords" and blatant accusations you constantly make throughout your disjointed ramblings, EMD. I've hilited your words in just this post alone...but every post you've made is full of these "codewords". Maybe you should be the one to grow some balls and just come out and say what you really mean--the guy --on orders from someone else--or in cahoots with other jockeys--conspired to fix this race--just f****** say it and be done with it already.

He said it was fixed.

First, I am not saying it was a fix with conviction. I am saying the jock of the 3rd place finisher behaved in either a repulsive, stupid, nefarious or negligent manner.

Tall One
12-22-2015, 11:46 PM
He said it was fixed.

First, I am not saying it was a fix with conviction. I am saying the jock of the 3rd place finisher behaved in either a repulsive, stupid, nefarious or negligent manner.


A curious ride...;)


/in before it's locked.

castaway01
12-22-2015, 11:58 PM
A curious ride...;)


/in before it's locked.

Should be locked and blocked, but I'm glad EMDit'sallfixed is in the pools. Guys like SRU obviously don't really bet, but EMDit'sallfixed probably does, and he has absolutely no clue about racing, so it's nice to take his money.

v j stauffer
12-23-2015, 12:26 AM
103 posts in this thread.

47 of which came from dumb and dumber and you guys still fall for it.

An ignored troll eventually troll's somewhere else.

C'mon guys :mad:

arw629
12-23-2015, 12:36 AM
I haven't read through all of the posts on this topic but I came across one as to why the jock didn't pull up harder...slamming on the breaks at high speeds is more dangerous for any animal or human for that matter than a gradual decline in speed...first off stopping and going is far more stress on the musculoskeletal system because of the higher torque at each joint....second off---from a cardiovascular standpoint it is more dangerous ....when racing at top speeds a runner is operating near a max heart rate and blood pressure also raises significantly ....by stopping quickly, blood pressure can drop very quickly causing dizziness possibly resulting in collapsing or fainting....maybe the jock felt the horse took a bad step so he eased back on him and perhaps he was right perhaps wrong ....but just bc the horse didn't come to a quick halt should not matter at all...not by a Longshot

Lemon Drop Husker
12-23-2015, 12:47 AM
103 posts in this thread.

47 of which came from dumb and dumber and you guys still fall for it.

An ignored troll eventually troll's somewhere else.

C'mon guys :mad:

They aren't trolling.

They believe what they say. And they post a lot. A lot.

Stillriledup
12-23-2015, 01:01 AM
103 posts in this thread.

47 of which came from dumb and dumber and you guys still fall for it.

An ignored troll eventually troll's somewhere else.

C'mon guys :mad:

And you came in w post 104 and added zero value. Well, I guess it's value if a reader is interested in hollow posts that just potentially can incite flame wars and drama. Well done, wouldn't expect much more from you these days.

Stillriledup
12-23-2015, 01:06 AM
I haven't read through all of the posts on this topic but I came across one as to why the jock didn't pull up harder...slamming on the breaks at high speeds is more dangerous for any animal or human for that matter than a gradual decline in speed...first off stopping and going is far more stress on the musculoskeletal system because of the higher torque at each joint....second off---from a cardiovascular standpoint it is more dangerous ....when racing at top speeds a runner is operating near a max heart rate and blood pressure also raises significantly ....by stopping quickly, blood pressure can drop very quickly causing dizziness possibly resulting in collapsing or fainting....maybe the jock felt the horse took a bad step so he eased back on him and perhaps he was right perhaps wrong ....but just bc the horse didn't come to a quick halt should not matter at all...not by a Longshot

How about not slamming on the breaks at high speeds but at some point appearing like you're trying to stop the horse?

Also, nobody seemed to watch the head on to see the rider change his stance on the horse when they crossed the lights, which means to me that the wire was a place to this jock that meant to change the way the horse was being ridden. I was asked if I watched the replay and yet, nobody seems to want to discuss any of this.

whodoyoulike
12-23-2015, 01:16 AM
Are you also the type that said to himself:

That poor wrestler was taken out in an ambulance. He must be severely hurt based upon the events in the ring TONIGHT!




http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127859

Yes, I watched AP's amazing gallop against his shadow and it was an amazing thread with a whopping ZERO posts. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't see how watching a decorated and talented racehorse gallop (against no one but his shadow) has ANYTHING to do with a supposed hurt horse being eased up on inside the 1/8 pole, who then galloped out full of run for 1/2 a mile in a maiden race...........

Yes, genius of the world, it is ALWAYS WISE TO ALLOW A HORSE WHO IS INJURED (to the point of slowing the horse down inside of the 1/8 POLE OF A REAL RACE) to GALLOP OUT FULL OF RUN FOR 2640 feet........

If you believe that, please make me a margarita. Jose Cuevo with lime margarita mix. 1/3 tequila and 2/3 mix over a lot of ice with no salt please.

I want to enjoy a drink as I make my way down your chimney thursday night with your presents.

And before I go, please refer to me as Santa Claus from now on, my real name.

Thank you.

As usual, you just don't understand what is written.

I initially posted it for others info and possible appreciation of AP. And, I originally posted it under Handicapper's Corner because I really didn't expect very much discussion was necessary or required and I didn't consider it was related to the handicapping thread (someone decided to move it). AP's racing against his own shadow was my own observation. You should try reading and understanding things first before thinking you have to make a comment which usually shows you're really a dumb ass.

My mention of the article in this thread was because I felt it demonstrated how difficult it can be to stop or slow a horse who has other ideas. But, even after I've explained the purpose of my reference, I'm certain you still don't understand.

Stillriledup
12-23-2015, 02:00 AM
As usual, you just don't understand what is written.

I initially posted it for others info and possible appreciation of AP. And, I originally posted it under Handicapper's Corner because I really didn't expect very much discussion was necessary or required and I didn't consider it was related to the handicapping thread (someone decided to move it). AP's racing against his own shadow was my own observation. You should try reading and understanding things first before thinking you have to make a comment which usually shows you're really a dumb ass.

My mention of the article in this thread was because I felt it demonstrated how difficult it can be to stop or slow a horse who has other ideas. But, even after I've explained the purpose of my reference, I'm certain you still don't understand.

Are you saying that Perez was making a futile attempt to slow up a horse who had other ideas or are you just speaking in general terms? Also, did you feel FHP was doing everything in his power to slow down the runner? I didnt see that to be the case.

NorCalGreg
12-23-2015, 04:41 AM
Seems we kind of ganged up on ol EMD for a minute. You know we're still the SUPERFECTA even though it's goof's *fake ignore*.
Don't even worry about it--you're batting about .750 on the HTW board, we need a couple more regulars. Husker, Goof, Castaway, Super Pickle....you guys are like THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY POSTERS...That was EMD's downfall, going up against serious dudes the likes of you guys.

Having said that... you all need to post up at least one winner on the HTW board to earn your status--SRU has 2 already, so don't bash him if you haven't even got one.

For some of you guys---this is your ticket out of weenietown

EMD4ME
12-23-2015, 07:28 AM
I don't have to be an attorney to interpret written "signals" "codewords" and blatant accusations you constantly make throughout your disjointed ramblings, EMD. I've hilited your words in just this post alone...but every post you've made is full of these "codewords". Maybe you should be the one to grow some balls and just come out and say what you really mean--the guy --on orders from someone else--or in cahoots with other jockeys--conspired to fix this race--just f****** say it and be done with it already.

If I think the fix is in I say it......

Remember the Couton STIFF JOB at Emerald downs this summer? That thread has obviously been closed.

No need for me to speak in codes. I always say it like it is.

I honestly don't know why Perez did what he did sunday. But the scenarios are limited and 1 of the 3 is he stiffed the horse down the lane.

EMD4ME
12-23-2015, 07:34 AM
Seems we kind of ganged up on ol EMD for a minute. You know we're still the SUPERFECTA even though it's goof's *fake ignore*.
Don't even worry about it--you're batting about .750 on the HTW board, we need a couple more regulars. Husker, Goof, Castaway, Super Pickle....you guys are like THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY POSTERS...That was EMD's downfall, going up against serious dudes the likes of you guys.

Having said that... you all need to post up at least one winner on the HTW board to earn your status--SRU has 2 already, so don't bash him if you haven't even got one.

For some of you guys---this is your ticket out of weenietown

I have thick skin pal and I like debate. Even in real life relationships, I don't like people who just agree with everything one says. I like people with their own minds, so no hard feelings pal.

Yeah, dropped a couple of nice plays in the HTW thread but recently since I only follow NYRA, I'm not too enamored with the racing so I've been quiet in recent weeks.

EMD4ME
12-23-2015, 08:28 AM
103 posts in this thread.

47 of which came from dumb and dumber and you guys still fall for it.

An ignored troll eventually troll's somewhere else.

C'mon guys :mad:

Hey BLD,

Thought you had the superfecta ignored?

Obviously not.

Thanks for the insightful post.

People like you and others on here are part of the reason why this game is declining.

I swear we can have 10 jockeys videotaped planning out a race and all you and your pals will say is:

Nothing to see here, move on.

Those darn conspiracy theory guys, they are nuts!

We have a valid question here in this case (the gallop out) but don't let any facts get in your way of name calling and belittling.

But as SRU kind of said, your bar has been set and you can't go any lower. Can't expect more from you.

EMD4ME
12-23-2015, 08:31 AM
My mention of the article in this thread was because I felt it demonstrated how difficult it can be to stop or slow a horse who has other ideas. But, even after I've explained the purpose of my reference, I'm certain you still don't understand.

I know I am making a mistake replying to you but I guess I am insane...

So, according to you, Perez was able to slow the horse down during the real running of the race BUT amazingly 6-10 seconds later, he couldn't slow the horse down on the gallop out (when the horse was supposedly in pain or in distress)?

Really?

Really?









Really?

EMD4ME
12-23-2015, 08:37 AM
Should be locked and blocked, but I'm glad EMDit'sallfixed is in the pools. Guys like SRU obviously don't really bet, but EMDit'sallfixed probably does, and he has absolutely no clue about racing, so it's nice to take his money.

EMDit'sallfixed-is that the best you can do? You might be the most clever, innovative and witty one in the isolation chamber of the insane asylum but not on here.

So according to you, a true horseplayer who wagers real money into the pools IS NOT ALLOWED to question anything they see on the track?

So, I'm supposed to have blind faith that something that is not visible to me (a logical reason for Perez's behavior) is actually something fair and legit?

Why? Because the integrity of this game is second to none?

Why? Because this game has been known to be 100% on the up and up?

I think your the one who needs his screws tightened, not me.

But who knows, you're probably a track executive with a personal agenda. That would explain it all.

EMD4ME
12-23-2015, 08:40 AM
I haven't read through all of the posts on this topic but I came across one as to why the jock didn't pull up harder...slamming on the breaks at high speeds is more dangerous for any animal or human for that matter than a gradual decline in speed...first off stopping and going is far more stress on the musculoskeletal system because of the higher torque at each joint....second off---from a cardiovascular standpoint it is more dangerous ....when racing at top speeds a runner is operating near a max heart rate and blood pressure also raises significantly ....by stopping quickly, blood pressure can drop very quickly causing dizziness possibly resulting in collapsing or fainting....maybe the jock felt the horse took a bad step so he eased back on him and perhaps he was right perhaps wrong ....but just bc the horse didn't come to a quick halt should not matter at all...not by a Longshot

I wasn't asking for a sudden stop. Perez slowed down considerably in the last 1/12 (between the 1/8 and 1/16).

All I am asking is why not continue the accelerated slow down after the wire?

Why gallop out like a loaded monster?

Kash$
12-23-2015, 09:04 AM
I wasn't asking for a sudden stop. Perez slowed down considerably in the last 1/12 (between the 1/8 and 1/16).

All I am asking is why not continue the accelerated slow down after the wire?

Why gallop out like a loaded monster?

NEXT TIME...

whodoyoulike
12-23-2015, 04:03 PM
Are you saying that Perez was making a futile attempt to slow up a horse who had other ideas or are you just speaking in general terms? Also, did you feel FHP was doing everything in his power to slow down the runner? I didnt see that to be the case.

Viewing the replay again and what you're suggesting Perez should have done would probably have been dangerous. The horse was moving fast going from about fourth at the top of the stretch to second on the rail with another horse outside of her. If the jockey would have pulled up the horse as quickly as you assert he should have done despite being in the stretch close to the rail .... what about the rest of the field closing in? The jockey probably didn't know where they were and that would have been a more dangerous situation. Now, I know a dumb ass would have had the presence of what little mind they have and waved the others who would probably be going 30 + mph to go around them. But, he would've just been doing a dumb ass move instead of trying to let the horse ease up on her own.

I really don't know what caused the horse to slow down and I've attempted to present several plausible reasons which you can't accept. So, maybe you'll only accept an explanation from the horse's mouth. So, you should just ask her.

Your post #22 .....

The horse galloped past the winner while being strangled. You gotta ride the mount out or pull the horse up, you can't sort of half assed pull the horse up. Also, bettors aren't interested in a pinhead jock playing trainer or vet, you're a jockey, just ride hard to the end, but these days it seems like too much to ask.

If the horse is lame, pull the horse up to a compete stop ASAP, either do that or ride the hair off the horse, you can't sorta pull the horse up, it's bad for perception.

Reminds me of your similar post awhile back against Mike Smith with Shared Belief's last race. Except that time you criticized him for playing vet and pulling SB up without you knowing what was wrong with him which turns out it was a legit injury.

v j stauffer
12-24-2015, 02:56 AM
Jerry's tote board up to 56 of 119. With a run of 6 straight from numbnuts. Was beginning to think he was going after the Warriors.

Hard2Like
12-24-2015, 03:25 AM
a lot

ponyplayerdotca
12-24-2015, 08:31 PM
Perez appears to get the horse going at the top of the stretch well and proceeds to hard whip the horse twice down the lane, with the horse seeming to respond well.

One or two jumps after the second whip action was applied, the horse's gait changed abruptly (to my eyes anyway) and Perez's whipping stopped abruptly as well.

I have no answer for the gallop out. If he truly felt the horse was in trouble, he should have pulled it up.

Having said that, it seems to make no sense that if Perez was trying to stiff the horse, then why bother whipping it twice hard to get it moving well down the stretch in the first place?

Stillriledup
12-24-2015, 09:12 PM
Perez appears to get the horse going at the top of the stretch well and proceeds to hard whip the horse twice down the lane, with the horse seeming to respond well.

One or two jumps after the second whip action was applied, the horse's gait changed abruptly (to my eyes anyway) and Perez's whipping stopped abruptly as well.

I have no answer for the gallop out. If he truly felt the horse was in trouble, he should have pulled it up.

Having said that, it seems to make no sense that if Perez was trying to stiff the horse, then why bother whipping it twice hard to get it moving well down the stretch in the first place?

I appreciate you addressing the gallop out, we have plenty of posts in this thread trying to sidestep that issue. Perez is guilty of SOMETHING whether its not riding thru the wire or not taking care of a stricken runner by pulling her up as soon as there was clearance to do so safely.

EMD4ME
12-24-2015, 09:54 PM
I appreciate you addressing the gallop out, we have plenty of posts in this thread trying to sidestep that issue. Perez is guilty of SOMETHING whether its not riding thru the wire or not taking care of a stricken runner by pulling her up as soon as there was clearance to do so safely.

Who said something about a gallop out? What gallop out? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Way this thread went, you would think the gallop out was cut from the replay :lol:

v j stauffer
12-24-2015, 11:30 PM
Slowly but VERY SURELY we're almost down to ONLY Fric & Frac playing with each other.

The inevitable lurks.

C'mon PA leave them to themselves. It's the ultimate FU.

Stillriledup
12-25-2015, 12:01 AM
Who said something about a gallop out? What gallop out? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Way this thread went, you would think the gallop out was cut from the replay :lol:

I guess the gallop out is the Grassy knoll, nobody really wants to address it.

PaceAdvantage
12-27-2015, 03:26 PM
Ever heard the expression "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?" Really people, not every race is fixed.

The problem is no race should ever be fixWelcome, Master Of The Obvious

PaceAdvantage
12-27-2015, 03:28 PM
Too many tooth fairy fans in this world and believers that all is fair and equal.

You are 1000000000% correct. Even if 1 race in 100,000 is fixed, that's one too many. This game needs to FIX it's repulsive image. Defending and constantly ignoring suspect incidents does NOT instill consumer confidence.

Please allow me to define my version of fixed. Any horse that has been "juiced". Any horse that is slowed down via drugs/jock holds. Any race where 1/2/3 jocks don't go to allow a lone leader etc. etc. etc.

I find it AMAZING that people quickly defend this game and act like anyone who screams fix/stiff job is psycho.

Maybe it's because the people that quickly defend this game are in the industry and they are 1 of the many who profit tremendously from it.

Maybe if those same people handled $500,000 a year, $2,000,000 a year or lived OFF OF the game via betting in any amount, they wouldn't be so quick to defend the bullcrap that goes on out there.Another Master of the Obvious joins in. Thanks for the enlightenment... :rolleyes:

PaceAdvantage
12-27-2015, 03:30 PM
This says it best.

How can anyone rebut this statement is beyond me.How many letters/emails/phone calls have you and SRU made to the "powers that be" who govern Los Al over this matter in question?

Stillriledup
12-27-2015, 05:29 PM
How many letters/emails/phone calls have you and SRU made to the "powers that be" who govern Los Al over this matter in question?

Why do we have to write letters when there are fully capable judges who could hand down discipline, it's not like they don't watch the races.

PaceAdvantage
12-27-2015, 05:34 PM
Why do we have to write letters when there are fully capable judges who could hand down discipline, it's not like they don't watch the races.It would go a long way to affirming your professed passion at being the guardian of all things good in the game.

I guess you're not as invested in seeing a cleaner game as you like to portray on here.

Still waiting for EMD's answer...

Stillriledup
12-27-2015, 05:40 PM
It would go a long way to affirming your professed passion at being the guardian of all things good in the game.

I guess you're not as invested in seeing a cleaner game as you like to portray on here.

Still waiting for EMD's answer...

There's zero chance anyone inside the game would listen to an e mail or phone call complaining about jockey or trainer shenanigans. Also, they're all reading PA, they know how we feel.

EMD4ME
12-27-2015, 07:30 PM
How many letters/emails/phone calls have you and SRU made to the "powers that be" who govern Los Al over this matter in question?

I wrote twice to the Washington Racing Commission about the Couton massacre.

They were cordial and polite but because 'they weren't able to detect any signifigant wagering abnormalities' they dismissed it.

I called Presque Isle about 50-75 times about an incorrect DQ. They wouldn't even answer the phone.

In this case, after checking the CHRB's minutes for that day (page 6)

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/Stewards/Minutes/Minutes_LA_Thoroughbreds/Minutes_LT_15_12_20.pdf

I laughed at their notes (or lack thereof) and said to myself (WTF is the point). You can't call the government and tell them they are at fault AND you can't call the Stewards or the track management and tell them they're blind.

Sorry to let anyone out there down.

EMD4ME
12-27-2015, 07:36 PM
Track employee: Hey EMD, were those horses ok (in race 1).

EMD: No :( :( :( :( :(

Track Employee: How about the jocks.

EMD: WHO?

I LOVE ANIMALS MORE THAN PEOPLE.

So, before I get blasted for saying the following sarcastic joke, keep the aforementioned in mind:

So, tell me, oh believers that all is so on the UP and UP....How well did Blooper and Successful Sweep GALLOP OUT today?

After all, 90% of the posters in this thread believe HURT horses gallop out amazingly.

HuggingTheRail
12-27-2015, 07:50 PM
.

So, before I get blasted for saying the following sarcastic joke, keep the aforementioned in mind:

So, tell me, oh believers that all is so on the UP and UP....How well did Blooper and Successful Sweep GALLOP OUT today?

After all, 90% of the posters in this thread believe HURT horses gallop out amazingly.

I won't blast - I will just say that your "joke" is tasteless

EMD4ME
12-27-2015, 08:00 PM
I won't blast - I will just say that your "joke" is tasteless

Wasn't a Joke......

Logic & straightforward video evidence couldn't sway a soul on here.

I figured an analogy of this similar nature might.

Nothing would change anyone's mind on here. Ego is too strong on here to admit any incorrect opinions/faults etc.

Heck, besided myself, I don't really recall a soul ever saying: I'm sorry, I was wrong.

NorCalGreg
12-27-2015, 09:19 PM
Wasn't a Joke......

Logic & straightforward video evidence couldn't sway a soul on here.

I figured an analogy of this similar nature might.

Nothing would change anyone's mind on here. Ego is too strong on here to admit any incorrect opinions/faults etc.

Heck, besided myself, I don't really recall a soul ever saying: I'm sorry, I was wrong.

I gotta stop you here, EMD. Now you are questioning the mental health and psychological well-being of other board members?
This is PAGE 10 and counting, of some jockey's questionable ride, that even SRU doesn't really give a sh*t about, is just stirring the pot in his special way.
YOU, EMD...have obsessed over this ridiculous incident, and continue to do so...to this very minute.
Please tell me, you were NOT REFERRING to yourself in that group of bettors, in the half-million to 2 million per year range. You have in the past.
Professionals in that range take incidents like this in stride....AND DO NOT GO ON FULL-TILT MELT DOWN over some gum-shoe jockey in the last race @ Los Alamitos. That describes a $10 bettor.

I'm not the board police---you are welcome to complain about jockeys--but after 10 pages of the same argument, I'm thinking a dose of reality is in
order, even though you'll consider my post as just another ignorant person with his head in the sand
Take care
continue posting the same
argument over and over
your buddy :)
-NCG☮

Stillriledup
12-27-2015, 09:40 PM
I gotta stop you here, EMD. Now you are questioning the mental health and psychological well-being of other board members?
This is PAGE 10 and counting, of some jockey's questionable ride, that even SRU doesn't really give a sh*t about, is just stirring the pot in his special way.
YOU, EMD...have obsessed over this ridiculous incident, and continue to do so...to this very minute.
Please tell me, you were NOT REFERRING to yourself in that group of bettors, in the half-million to 2 million per year range. You have in the past.
Professionals in that range take incidents like this in stride....AND DO NOT GO ON FULL-TILT MELT DOWN over some gum-shoe jockey in the last race @ Los Alamitos. That describes a $10 bettor.

I'm not the board police---you are welcome to complain about jockeys--but after 10 pages of the same argument, I'm thinking a dose of reality is in
order, even though you'll consider my post as just another ignorant person with his head in the sand
Take care
continue posting the same
argument over and over
your buddy :)
-NCG☮

I LOL'd at the gum shoe comment. :D

As a horse bettor, are you willing to just accept what's thrown at you by the industry? This game could be so much better if the shepherds of this game would just hold people to a higher standard. But, nobody cares.

And it shows.

EMD4ME
12-27-2015, 10:03 PM
I gotta stop you here, EMD. Now you are questioning the mental health and psychological well-being of other board members?
This is PAGE 10 and counting, of some jockey's questionable ride, that even SRU doesn't really give a sh*t about, is just stirring the pot in his special way.
YOU, EMD...have obsessed over this ridiculous incident, and continue to do so...to this very minute.
Please tell me, you were NOT REFERRING to yourself in that group of bettors, in the half-million to 2 million per year range. You have in the past.
Professionals in that range take incidents like this in stride....AND DO NOT GO ON FULL-TILT MELT DOWN over some gum-shoe jockey in the last race @ Los Alamitos. That describes a $10 bettor.

I'm not the board police---you are welcome to complain about jockeys--but after 10 pages of the same argument, I'm thinking a dose of reality is in
order, even though you'll consider my post as just another ignorant person with his head in the sand
Take care
continue posting the same
argument over and over
your buddy :)
-NCG☮

NorCalGreg,

No offense to you as I wasn't referring specifically to you.

I was referring to people on here who no matter what evidence or legit question is pointed out, they either

A) Completey deflect the question
B) Crickets are given
C) Combat with no logic
D) Continue with their name calling attacks no matter what logic is presented to them.

Anyway....

Still like ya buddy.

Be well.

EMD4ME

P.S. Yes, I am in that bracket. (Handle bracket). What difference does it make? To me, whether I bet $2 or $2,000 into a race, I want it run honestly 100% of the time. Not 99.999999% of the time.

I didn't bet that Los Al race but I know it smelled. Still does.

PA asked some questions, I responded. What's the big deal?

Finally, I lose $50,000 (in winnings) by a nose/bad ride/DQ's 15 a year. I turn the page in 5 minutes. But when I see something questionable, yes, I harp on it like a lover scorned.

NorCalGreg
12-28-2015, 03:06 AM
"I harp on it like a lover scorned"

Okay, as a failed Journalism student, I can appreciate that line :)

Yeah, still buds 👊fist bump

EMD4ME
12-28-2015, 07:23 AM
"I harp on it like a lover scorned"

Okay, as a failed Journalism student, I can appreciate that line :)

Yeah, still buds 👊fist bump

I wanna FIST BUMP back but this technoligically challenged nimrod doesn't know how to do that here!!!! :lol: :lol:

Stillriledup
12-28-2015, 12:29 PM
I wanna FIST BUMP back but this technoligically challenged nimrod doesn't know how to do that here!!!! :lol: :lol:
👊 :D

EMD4ME
12-28-2015, 01:03 PM
👊 :D

Next time YOU have a wound, I'll make sure I get the salt out! :D :D

PaceAdvantage
01-02-2016, 03:38 PM
Ego is too strong on here to admit any incorrect opinions/faults etc.Physician, heal thyself.