Kirk Ziadie gets six-year suspension

[RXB]

http://www.drf.com/news/ziadie-handed-six-year-suspension

18 violations of medication rules in four years.

[PICSIX]

http://www.drf.com/news/ziadie-handed-six-year-suspension

18 violations of medication rules in four years.

How sweet it is! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Now, I hope they get the rest of them!

[cj]

He had beards galore.

[Stillriledup]

How sweet it is! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Now, I hope they get the rest of them!

One at a time.

Ziadie isn't the only one, keep going guys!

[TBD]

Well there goes some singles in the P-4's and P-5's.

[Stillriledup]

Andy Beyer on Kirk circa 2010

Enjoy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/29/AR2010012903992.html

[azeri98]

It's about time!

[Dr Gonzo]

Glad he's gone but the paltry, $18,000 fine is a slap in the face to horseplayers.

[castaway01]

Glad he's gone but the paltry, $18,000 fine is a slap in the face to horseplayers.

Who cares what he was fined? I don't have to worry about his horses in races for six years (in theory anyway, though who knows if he'll still be involved behind the scenes). That's the only thing that affects me as a horseplayer.

[Stillriledup]

C01 touches on a point we need to think about, is this guy just going to be training under assumed names and the only thing that's really suspended is the privilege of having his name on the program as listed trainer?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Just for the record I have nothing good to say about Zaidie. And no wisecracks.

[thaskalos]

One at a time.

Ziadie isn't the only one, keep going guys!
First Dutrow, and now Ziadie. The only problem is, this cleansing process is moving so slow...the prior offender will be back in the game by the time the next one is suspended from it.

[Stillriledup]

First Dutrow, and now Ziadie. The only problem is, this cleansing process is moving so slow...the prior offender will be back in the game by the time the next one is suspended from it.

There's a handful of trainers now that the game wouldn't miss if they went away, time to get aggressive and eradicate the cancer.

You're right about moving slow, when I think of how slow they're moving the Durkinisms "pokey" and "glacial" come to mind.

[Kash$]

First Dutrow, and now Ziadie. The only problem is, this cleansing process is moving so slow...the prior offender will be back in the game by the time the next one is suspended from it.

Broberg :confused:

[Donttellmeshowme]

C01 touches on a point we need to think about, is this guy just going to be training under assumed names and the only thing that's really suspended is the privilege of having his name on the program as listed trainer?




Yes...........

[Stillriledup]

Yes...........

So he's not really suspended, just his name on the program is suspended, that's what I thought.

[Hambletonian]

All a tbred trainer needs to do is look at the harness side to see how it all works.

unless the horse racing industry gets serious fast, pretty soon there will be no industry. these juice guys kill off owners faster than players....and when they run out of people to pay the bills the breeding end goes into abyss as well.

id rather have only 5 hay oats and water tracks then the crud we have now.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

So he's not really suspended, just his name on the program is suspended, that's what I thought.
The suspension order will be specific about his limitations but at the very least he will not be able to access racetrack grounds. He would probably still be able to do things like saddle break two year olds or run a rehabilitation farm. Tough to keep anyone off private property so it's possible he could still train. Tracks could potentially stop it by requiring horses from offsite barns to be in a quarantine barn for 24-48 hours before a race and doing pre-race testing.

[onefast99]

C01 touches on a point we need to think about, is this guy just going to be training under assumed names and the only thing that's really suspended is the privilege of having his name on the program as listed trainer?There has been some positive movement into this several tracks will not permit a trainer change to an assistant.

[Stillriledup]

There has been some positive movement into this several tracks will not permit a trainer change to an assistant.

I would love to see one day where owners who patronize these trainers accrue demerits towards fines and suspensions, owners who keep giving horses to these people shouldn't be able to play dumb. Or, if that wouldn't work, suspend the horse, right now there's zero incentive for owners who have larceny in their hearts to seek out honest trainers. It pays to cheat as they aren't the ones in danger of being fined or suspended.

[ebcorde]

I made a lot of money off this guy when he was running a large string in Tampa years ago.

[GatetoWire]

He had beards galore.

Agree. Zaidie is already running lots of horses at different tracks under assistants and friends.
Little is going to change except who is listed as the trainer in the program

[Stillriledup]

The suspension order will be specific about his limitations but at the very least he will not be able to access racetrack grounds. He would probably still be able to do things like saddle break two year olds or run a rehabilitation farm. Tough to keep anyone off private property so it's possible he could still train. Tracks could potentially stop it by requiring horses from offsite barns to be in a quarantine barn for 24-48 hours before a race and doing pre-race testing.

When a suspension like this is handed down, do the people handing down the suspension ever lay out the specifics? Or do we just hear 'suspended' and are supposed to assume justice has been served?

Let me put it a different way, how do we know the suspended trainer isn't in his normal barn training as usual? Are we just supposed to trust them that he has no contact with the racehorses that are running in races that I'm betting?

[Greybase]

>> "Kirk Ziadie?" exclaims a wiry old Jamaican in an oversize shirt, belatedly recognizing the muscular man in ripped jeans who has entered the circle to hold the reins. "Aw, man. If I had known, I would have bet on him. He's a helluva trainer. He was trainer of the year a couple years ago.

"Then they suspended him," he adds in a whisper. "Something about using drugs on the horses."

Story from August 2012: Cheaters Prosper At Calder (http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/cheaters-prosper-at-calder-race-course-6388534) :1:

As a former resident of Miami, I used to love South Florida parimutuels. All of em, including 3 horse tracks, and 3 dog tracks, in the same Metro area .. Guys used to think, OK we know Jai-Alai is totally fixed, that's a given. Trotters at Pompano Park, yeah those races are probably rigged. Greyhounds, fast action and do they really "shake" the dogs with rabbits? But Gulfstream/ Hialeah/ Calder.. that's big money. They DO regulate Tbreds in Florida, right?

My understanding of ALL parimutuels has evolved over the years .. As the article points out: Lack of enforcement, lax penalties, outdated equipment, and "Many drugs simply aren't detectable at all". ALL racing is now dominated by Lance Armstrong types using the latest, cutting edge stuff with masking agents. Whether it's Ziadie, or Ness at Tampa, Broberg at Delta, or O'Neill milkshaking his way to the KY Derby... read this ARTICLE. :cool:

[HalvOnHorseracing]

When a suspension like this is handed down, do the people handing down the suspension ever lay out the specifics? Or do we just hear 'suspended' and are supposed to assume justice has been served?

Let me put it a different way, how do we know the suspended trainer isn't in his normal barn training as usual? Are we just supposed to trust them that he has no contact with the racehorses that are running in races that I'm betting?
He is not allowed on racetrack grounds during the suspension. If he was caught on the grounds he'd be subject to additional fines and days.

I have heard about trainers working at private farms, and I don't think a state can stop someone from working there. Whether they could have contact at a private farm with a horse that is racing, I'm not sure.

Most of the stewards or commission orders will specify fines and number of days suspended. The specific rules laying out any special limitations are contained in the state racing rules.

[Stillriledup]

He is not allowed on racetrack grounds during the suspension. If he was caught on the grounds he'd be subject to additional fines and days.

I have heard about trainers working at private farms, and I don't think a state can stop someone from working there. Whether they could have contact at a private farm with a horse that is racing, I'm not sure.

Most of the stewards or commission orders will specify fines and number of days suspended. The specific rules laying out any special limitations are contained in the state racing rules.

Do you think a suspending body would ever require 'proof of employment' during these 6 years ?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Do you think a suspending body would ever require 'proof of employment' during these 6 years ?

You asked a similar question about Dutrow. Maybe they've both invested their money well? Saved well? Married money? Inherited money?

[Stillriledup]

You asked a similar question about Dutrow. Maybe they've both invested their money well? Saved well? Married money? Inherited money?

It's possible, but the comission could still require pay stubs to prove these guys have jobs and aren't really secretly training. If they don't need the money, they can provide bank statements that show they have enough to support themselves for 6 or 10 years or whatever the case may be.

[Saratoga_Mike]

It's possible, but the comission could still require pay stubs to prove these guys have jobs and aren't really secretly training. If they don't need the money, they can provide bank statements that show they have enough to support themselves for 6 or 10 years or whatever the case may be.

I'd have to think about your suggestion more, but I'd be more concerned about the guy who receives a 180-day suspension (using a paper trainer) than the guy who is banned for 6 years (I think a paper trainer is much less likely in that scenario).

[johnhannibalsmith]

It's possible, but the comission could still require pay stubs to prove these guys have jobs and aren't really secretly training. If they don't need the money, they can provide bank statements that show they have enough to support themselves for 6 or 10 years or whatever the case may be.

Or what? They get ruled off?

[pandy]

As some have suggested, he will have beards. The only way to stop criminals like him is to punish the owners. Every time a horse gets a positive the owners should have to stop racing the horse but keep feeding and caring for it. You could actually have the horses taken to a well known training facility or horse farm and make sure that the horse is being cared for and the bill's paid. If the owners refuse to do that you could force them to sell the horse. The owners who use these trainers have to be punished or this will never end.

[Stillriledup]

Or what? They get ruled off?

No, what you could do is this. Give the guy the option to provide financial information or 'proof' that he is working some sort of job in order to get time served for good behavior. Tell him that cooperation in this matter could lessen his sentence. Totally optional.

[Tall One]

Nice link GreyBase.


Agreed, and an eye opening one at that. How could any jurisdiction or owner justify keeping this hump in business:

Confronted with records showing the ban was actually due to drug infractions, he admits to having "some positives." But he describes the drugs as "low-grade medications similar to aspirin for humans."

Ziadie says he's a winner because he treats his horses better — not worse — than other trainers. "I love my horses. My horses run because they are happy. They are treated like King James in my stalls," he says. "They've got no proof of me doing anything wrong. They've never found a needle on me."

Presented with specific evidence of doping — including the drug-filled syringes his employee handed over to Calder — Ziadie admits to making "mistakes."

"How many horses have I trained?" he says. "Over a thousand. So to me, [41 positives] is nothing. That's just carelessness."

[Stillriledup]

Agreed, and an eye opening one at that. How could any jurisdiction or owner justify keeping this hump in business:

Confronted with records showing the ban was actually due to drug infractions, he admits to having "some positives." But he describes the drugs as "low-grade medications similar to aspirin for humans."

Ziadie says he's a winner because he treats his horses better — not worse — than other trainers. "I love my horses. My horses run because they are happy. They are treated like King James in my stalls," he says. "They've got no proof of me doing anything wrong. They've never found a needle on me."

Presented with specific evidence of doping — including the drug-filled syringes his employee handed over to Calder — Ziadie admits to making "mistakes."

"How many horses have I trained?" he says. "Over a thousand. So to me, [41 positives] is nothing. That's just carelessness."

Funny how the carelessness always seems to result in his horses running faster not slower. Sorta like how like when stores put the wrong price on an item, it's almost always wrong in their favor. Coincidentally of course.

[Stillriledup]

So Ralph Ziadie is 1 for 49 in 2015/16 combined.

Seems like he wasnt ever a supertrainer, but he's forgotten how to train entirely. He makes Nick Zito look like Broberg.

[EMD4ME]

So Ralph Ziadie is 1 for 49 in 2015/16 combined.

Seems like he wasnt ever a supertrainer, but he's forgotten how to train entirely. He makes Nick Zito look like Broberg.

I'm ticked he even has 1 win. Hope all those supertrainers/brothers/whatevers of sp's lose lose lose lose lose lose.

[Stillriledup]

I'm ticked he even has 1 win. Hope all those supertrainers/brothers/whatevers of sp's lose lose lose lose lose lose.

Maybe Ziadie just got sick of winning because he won so much!

[EMD4ME]

Maybe Ziadie just got sick of winning because he won so much!

Yeah, I guess guys like him and Mike Mariena do get bored of winning so they go ice cold from their 30% days.

[tophatmert]

When was Ralph Ziade ever a supertrainer? Am I missing something here?

[Stillriledup]

When was Ralph Ziade ever a supertrainer? Am I missing something here?

He wasn't, but, he went from a regular trainer to a 1 for 49 guy seemingly overnight.

[EMD4ME]

He batted 15% lifetime from 2002 and prior. Good numbers for back in the day.

Obviously we know who his son is. You woud he wouldn't have a 1/49 success rate in today's fields and his talent.

[no breathalyzer]

Yeah, I guess guys like him and Mike Mariena do get bored of winning so they go ice cold from their 30% days.


Look out when he gets hot! His horse run off the screen

[RXB]

When was Ralph Ziade ever a supertrainer? Am I missing something here?

Somebody felt it was necessary to drag up an old thread about Kirk Ziadie's suspension just to point out that his dad-- who must be pushing 80 by now, and has a solid reputation that is nothing like his son's-- is 1/49 in the past year.

[tophatmert]

Somebody felt it was necessary to drag up an old thread about Kirk Ziadie's suspension just to point out that his dad-- who must be pushing 80 by now, and has a solid reputation that is nothing like his son's-- is 1/49 in the past year.
Right ,Ralph was quite the critic of his son's training feats if I remember.

[cj]

Oh goodie, he was granted a stay today. Welcome back.

[EMD4ME]

Oh goodie, he was granted a stay today. Welcome back.

Do you have a link CJ? I believe you, just want to read the details. Thank you.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Do you have a link CJ? I believe you, just want to read the details. Thank you.
I didn't see any detail in the article about the stay. Here is the story I wrote about him.
http://halveyonhorseracing.com/?p=2911

[Stillriledup]

Oh goodie, he was granted a stay today. Welcome back.
You're kidding

[Donttellmeshowme]

So did he get a stay or not?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

So did he get a stay or not?
Yes, he was issued a stay.

[Stillriledup]

Yes, he was issued a stay.

Can't tracks just refuse to accept his entries anyway? Or refuse to give him stalls?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Can't tracks just refuse to accept his entries anyway? Or refuse to give him stalls?
Yes they can. It happened to Julio Cartagena both in Florida and West Virginia. Cartagena's beard in West Virginia was Miguel Ceciliano.

[DSB]

Yes they can. It happened to Julio Cartagena both in Florida and West Virginia. Cartagena's beard in West Virginia was Miguel Ceciliano.
Exactly right. Ceciliano was also connected to another guy you may have heard of - Julian Canet. Canet was also knocked out of the game for a spell but I believe he's wormed his way back in. Whoopee.

The web extends a bit farther. Canet's stepson is none other than the renowned Jorge Navarro.

I consider Canet the godfather of the "super trainers."

Small world, isn't it?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Exactly right. Ceciliano was also connected to another guy you may have heard of - Julian Canet. Canet was also knocked out of the game for a spell but I believe he's wormed his way back in. Whoopee.

The web extends a bit farther. Canet's stepson is none other than the renowned Jorge Navarro.

I consider Canet the godfather of the "super trainers."

Small world, isn't it?
You may be interested in the story of Chris Grove. He was using Ceciliano as an Assistant Trainer when one of his horses came up with a positive for Nikethamide in West Virginia. Grove was not in the state at the time. The interesting coincidence was that in the last ten or so years there have only been two Nikethamide positives - the other was none other than Julio Cartagena.

http://halveyonhorseracing.com/?p=1742

[Tall One]

Grit, speed, and determination is bred into the thoroughbred. Some have more than others, but lets just juice up the ones that don't and, well, either it works or breaks them down. Win/win for these masochists, right?

I absolutely loathe this aspect of our sport.

[burnsy]

Grit, speed, and determination is bred into the thoroughbred. Some have more than others, but lets just juice up the ones that don't and, well, either it works or breaks them down. Win/win for these masochists, right?

I absolutely loathe this aspect of our sport.

Unfortunately, that's the wrong place to waste your energy. Human behavior and greed is always loath able. Some are literally bred to it. People act like we are some perfect being, we have to learn to be decent and many never bother. If one is willing to shoot themselves up for athletic advantage, fame and fortune. Why wouldn't people do it to a helpless animal? Look at the after affects of the crap these guys (and girls) take just to get ahead. They have horrible things happen to their "parts" and die young. Why would someone with the same mind set give a damn about a horse?

Its the rules and the enforcement of said rules. Here's novel idea. Instead of "whipping boys" with 6 and 10 year suspensions after they've been caught umpteen times. How about a uniform set of sanctions that start out really strict, so its nipped in the bud and cases go down. Why does it have to come to this before heads roll? What about .......I don't know.......some deterrents? Every other sport has taken this approach. Why not horse racing?

I agree with you, its loath able. But stop making excuses for scum. Humans do moronic things daily. The hammer has to come down before it gets to this point....... :rolleyes:

Nothing to see here.....move along.......... :lol:

[Stillriledup]

Unfortunately, that's the wrong place to waste your energy. Human behavior and greed is always loath able. Some are literally bred to it. People act like we are some perfect being, we have to learn to be decent and many never bother. If one is willing to shoot themselves up for athletic advantage, fame and fortune. Why wouldn't people do it to a helpless animal? Look at the after affects of the crap these guys (and girls) take just to get ahead. They have horrible things happen to their "parts" and die young. Why would someone with the same mind set give a damn about a horse?

Its the rules and the enforcement of said rules. Here's novel idea. Instead of "whipping boys" with 6 and 10 year suspensions after they've been caught umpteen times. How about a uniform set of sanctions that start out really strict, so its nipped in the bud and cases go down. Why does it have to come to this before heads roll? What about .......I don't know.......some deterrents? Every other sport has taken this approach. Why not horse racing?

I agree with you, its loath able. But stop making excuses for scum. Humans do moronic things daily. The hammer has to come down before it gets to this point....... :rolleyes:

Nothing to see here.....move along.......... :lol:

Until you start slapping these people with federal crimes and jail time, the deterrent probably won't be strong enough for some. They can rob enough purse money before they get kicked out to make it worth it. Anyone who tries to rob an actual bank is stupid, they can just become a horse trainer and rob cash that way with no threat of jail time.