Jack Del Rio just went for 2 up 3pts

[Neumeier]

Coaches should be fired on spot for being completely brain dead. 4th quarter the Raiders score to take a 15-12 lead and the Raiders go for 2. Wonder what his reasoning will be at the press conference.

[horses4courses]

That's the only way you can describe that decision.
Brain dead.

[tucker6]

snapper was hurt. Couldn't kick.

[Valuist]

They say its because the long snapper was hurt and being evaluated in the locker room. At the time, the decision seemed very strange.

[NorCalGreg]

Coaches should be fired on spot for being completely brain dead. 4th quarter the Raiders score to take a 15-12 lead and the Raiders go for 2. Wonder what his reasoning will be at the press conference.

Shouldn't be so quick to call for someone's job. :ThmbDown:

[MutuelClerk]

I tried finding the when to go for two thread. Didn't understand the move, still don't. There has to be a emergency long snapper on the team. Raiders are impressing me. Pretty young, four road wins this season. I despise the Broncos. It was cute Denver tried the Holy Roller to end it. Not just because of his horrific late drop in the game but Vernon Davis to me has always defined look like Tarzan play like Jane.

[Stillriledup]

Shouldn't be so quick to call for someone's job. :ThmbDown:

Why not have a player who can snap in emergency? Not one player on the entire team practiced long snapping for even 5 minutes, as a lark?

[NorCalGreg]

Why not have a player who can snap in emergency? Not one player on the entire team practiced long snapping for even 5 minutes, as a lark?

Of course the Raiders have an emergency long snapper, as all NFL teams do. As well as an emergency QB, RB, PK, Punter, and probably emergency water boy. Keep in mind, the Raiders were up by 3 points at the time, not 2, his regular long snapper was being examined in the locker room. In the seconds he had to mull this over--he decided going for 2 would be the best course at that point in the game.

[ponyplayerdotca]

Snapping for a FG/PAT kick is like snapping to the QB in the shotgun. It's not as if anyone had to snap it far back to a punter.

Surely the starting or backup center on the team could have done it? And if they don't have a contingency plan in place by week 14 of a given season, then that IS all on the coach(es).

But since the Raiders won, it renders the point moot in hindsight. Frustrating to watch as it happened though.

[Stillriledup]

Of course the Raiders have an emergency long snapper, as all NFL teams do. As well as an emergency QB, RB, PK, Punter, and probably emergency water boy. Keep in mind, the Raiders were up by 3 points at the time, not 2, his regular long snapper was being examined in the locker room. In the seconds he had to mull this over--he decided going for 2 would be the best course at that point in the game.

tkwZWXjdGnY

Some things never change. :D

[Chaka26]

If raiders would have made it .it also,would have allowed for fg to tie at 20 if denver scored td and made 2 pt

Raiders 15-12 went for two, assume made it now up 17-12
Denver needs td to make it 17-18 have to,go,for,two to go up 3 den 20-17

If injury was issue this is one instance where it probably didnt hurt them

[Chaka26]

Snapping for a FG/PAT kick is like snapping to the QB in the shotgun. It's not as if anyone had to snap it far back to a punter.

Surely the starting or backup center on the team could have done it? And if they don't have a contingency plan in place by week 14 of a given season, then that IS all on the coach(es).

But since the Raiders won, it renders the point moot in hindsight. Frustrating to watch as it happened though.
No its not, it has to be snapped much faster(thus two hands) and in a smaller window

There was a guy long ago that could snap it as fast as qb jeff blake could throw it fwd at same distance

[ManU918]

Snapping for a FG/PAT kick is like snapping to the QB in the shotgun. It's not as if anyone had to snap it far back to a punter.

Surely the starting or backup center on the team could have done it?



Why do you think all 32 teams use a roster spot on a long snapper? Because centers and long snappers have a different set of skills. It's like saying the player punting should also kick the field goals. Doesn't work that way.

[tucker6]

wow, there's a severe lack of football knowledge in this thread. :faint:

The postscript to the incident is that on their next series, Oakland went for a field goal with their injured long snapper. He snapped the ball high and the kicker missed the easy field goal. So if the guy who has snapped the ball in these situations 10,000 times can tweak a shoulder and become completely useless, maybe the simple act of long snapping isn't so simple.

Five minutes? please. :lol:

[cj]

wow, there's a severe lack of football knowledge in this thread. :faint:

The postscript to the incident is that on their next series, Oakland went for a field goal with their injured long snapper. He snapped the ball high and the kicker missed the easy field goal. So if the guy who has snapped the ball in these situations 10,000 times can tweak a shoulder and become completely useless, maybe the simple act of long snapping isn't so simple.

Five minutes? please. :lol:

It isn't an easy job. I used to snap on punts growing up and I hated it. I was a small kid but because I had a good arm as a kid and nobody else could/would do it, but I always wound up with my head smushed in the ground.

It is pretty baffling that teams don't have an extra guy, one that actually practices it regularly, just in case.

[Inner Dirt]

Also with the new rules a botched extra point attempt can be returned for two points. Maybe concern for an errant snap warranted the two point attempt.

[tucker6]

Great point

[tucker6]

It isn't an easy job. I used to snap on punts growing up and I hated it. I was a small kid but because I had a good arm as a kid and nobody else could/would do it, but I always wound up with my head smushed in the ground.

It is pretty baffling that teams don't have an extra guy, one that actually practices it regularly, just in case.
Exactly right. Not only do you have to snap it perfectly, but you are then expected to block sufficiently from a compromised position with your hands between your legs. An underrated act in football.

[Stillriledup]

Read section 6, article 3b it's near the bottom of the page

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/10_Rule7_BallInPlay_DeadBall_Scrimm.pdf

[tucker6]

Immaterial to the discussion. Fact is, the method of one handed snaps to the side lost favor long ago. Just like straight on kicks. As with anything in life, repetition helps.

[cj]

Exactly right. Not only do you have to snap it perfectly, but you are then expected to block sufficiently from a compromised position with your hands between your legs. An underrated act in football.

I think the rules these days are a lot kinder to the snapper, but it still isn't an easy job. But as I said, there is no excuse for NFL teams not having a second guy that can do it.

[Stillriledup]

Immaterial to the discussion. Fact is, the method of one handed snaps to the side lost favor long ago. Just like straight on kicks. As with anything in life, repetition helps.

If you can snap it off to the side, why wouldn't you do it that way?

[cj]

If you can snap it off to the side, why wouldn't you do it that way?

Because you can't do it as fast or be in as good a position for blocking.

[_______]

This article is a year old but goes into pretty good depth about the position and why NFL teams only carry one.

Average salary was around $750,000 (about what you'd pay a #5 WR) for a guy who will never play a snap on offense or defense.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/21/5945187/an-in-depth-look-at-long-snappers

[cj]

This article is a year old but goes into pretty good depth about the position and why NFL teams only carry one.

Average salary was around $750,000 (about what you'd pay a #5 WR) for a guy who will never play a snap on offense or defense.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/21/5945187/an-in-depth-look-at-long-snappers

I still say it isn't that hard that each team shouldn't have an emergency back up. It is a long snap, not rocket science. Hell, the back up QB has plenty of time standing around to practice and obviously has the arm!

[_______]

You probably don't want your back up quarterback running downfield trying to make tackles on special team play.

[kingfin66]

This article is a year old but goes into pretty good depth about the position and why NFL teams only carry one.

Average salary was around $750,000 (about what you'd pay a #5 WR) for a guy who will never play a snap on offense or defense.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/21/5945187/an-in-depth-look-at-long-snappers

Thanks for the article. I am going to read it when I have more time. Long snapping is very interesting. A friend of mine has a kid who just got a college scholarship as a long snapper. It is incredible how technical it has become. When I was in high school, I played center. Could not long snap at all so I came out during punts, FG and PATs. Our LS was a back up RB who weighed about 150 lbs, but he could really pass it! There are actually several long snap coaches and schools nowadays. The best students get placed (scholarships). It is not only about velocity, but also about putting the ball exactly where a punter or holder wants it and getting the laces to the right position.

[tucker6]

It is not only about velocity, but also about putting the ball exactly where a punter or holder wants it and getting the laces to the right position.
sounds like knife throwing!!

[cj]

You probably don't want your back up quarterback running downfield trying to make tackles on special team play.

For punts, no, but field goals and extra points would be fine. Are you suggesting when the long snapper gets injured teams no longer punt? That sounds even more ridiculous than not having a back up snapper for PATs/FGs.

[ManU918]

I still say it isn't that hard that each team shouldn't have an emergency back up. It is a long snap, not rocket science. Hell, the back up QB has plenty of time standing around to practice and obviously has the arm!

I just listened to an interview with Del Rio and according to him whoever it is that acts as the backup long snapper recently had surgery.

[Stillriledup]

Seems like an excuse, you find a way to kick the point there, it's not rocket science, they knew in advance their other guy had surgery, they needed a backup plan and didnt have one.

[ManU918]

Seems like an excuse, you find a way to kick the point there, it's not rocket science, they knew in advance their other guy had surgery, they needed a backup plan and didnt have one.

You have a fair point... I just wanted to put it out there that there was a backup on the team... It's obviously up to Del Rio to move someone else into that back up role prior to the next game and clearly he didn't do that.

[tucker6]

You have a fair point... I just wanted to put it out there that there was a backup on the team... It's obviously up to Del Rio to move someone else into that back up role prior to the next game and clearly he didn't do that.
It really isn't a fair point at all. Sometimes shit happens. Del Rio has to weigh his options each week as to which 53 guys dress on Sunday based on his risk/reward assessment after 30 years of coaching. He chose to only have one viable snapper so that he could have an extra whatever playing. So his decision cost them an extra point and a field goal on the risk side. That's four points. However, what we don't know is if the person he chose to keep on the dress roster contributed more than four points in the victory. Was the extra guy a safety, who by virtue of his ability to allow the starter to rest, gave that starter the extra energy he needed to prevent a first down or caused a coverage sack or whatever. We sitting at our keyboards have no idea what the ramifications of Del Rio's decision actually were. All we know is that he won the game, and not necessarily in spite of himself.

[ManU918]

It really isn't a fair point at all. Sometimes shit happens. Del Rio has to weigh his options each week as to which 53 guys dress on Sunday based on his risk/reward assessment after 30 years of coaching. He chose to only have one viable snapper so that he could have an extra whatever playing. So his decision cost them an extra point and a field goal on the risk side. That's four points. However, what we don't know is if the person he chose to keep on the dress roster contributed more than four points in the victory. Was the extra guy a safety, who by virtue of his ability to allow the starter to rest, gave that starter the extra energy he needed to prevent a first down or caused a coverage sack or whatever. We sitting at our keyboards have no idea what the ramifications of Del Rio's decision actually were. All we know is that he won the game, and not necessarily in spite of himself.

I wasn't suggesting that Del Rio should dress two long snappers. BUT if Del Rio had a position player on the 53 man roster who was the emergency long snapper and suffered an injury, he should have filled the emergency long snapper role with another position player who is already dressing. Easier said than done? Yes... But in case of an emergency IE tie game 5 seconds to go on the Broncos 18 yard line you need to be able to kick a FG in that spot.

[cj]

I wasn't suggesting that Del Rio should dress two long snappers. BUT if Del Rio had a position player on the 53 man roster who was the emergency long snapper and suffered an injury, he should have filled the emergency long snapper role with another position player who is already dressing. Easier said than done? Yes... But in case of an emergency IE tie game 5 seconds to go on the Broncos 18 yard line you need to be able to kick a FG in that spot.

Exactly...yes, it is a specialized job, but let's be real here. Anyone with a fair amount of athletic ability and a little practice could learn to snap for an extra point in a few days and be successful like 98% of the time. Sure, that is down from the 99.5 of a regular guy, but still. And I'm sure he has guys on his roster that have done it somewhere along the line.