what is the president going to say tonight?

[lamboguy]

my guess is he is going to declare war. at least from all i am hearing about the terrorist's throughout the world, that is what i think he should be doing.

these guys are spreading like cancer and if you don't get these rats now, they will get us. its pretty simple now, its either we get them or they will get us. i rather get them.

[Tom]

Democratic sellout pundits are flooding the talk shows this morning, each singing from the same song sheet about gun control and trying to steer away from terrorism.

You know that will be his topic tonight. Maybe another executive order is in the works to try to take away more freedom. Remember, that is how Hitler used the burning of the Reichstag. And Obama's administration is already on record as never letting a disaster go to waste.

For sure, he has no solid plan to defeat ISIS. That was already mentioned this morning as an area of compromise (et tu Chamberlain?).
the will spend more time telling us how we will have to curb our speech about Islam, and he will blame republicans. All fluff, no stuff.

The background to all of this is he is outraged.
Outrages that his legacy has been tarnished. He has to acknowledge this was terrorism on our shores under his watch and now he like a rabid dog backed into a corner.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Muslims do not equal terrorists. Gun control is needed more than ever and this is indisputable. We are working with the international community to do some stuff.

[davew]

He is going to repeat a campaign speech about HOPE. Then say he is winning the war on climate change, but we will all need to sacrifice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU

[PaceAdvantage]

The man has proven to be inconsequential when it comes to stopping well organized terrorist groups, so who cares what he says.

[NJ Stinks]

The background to all of this is he is outraged.
Outrages that his legacy has been tarnished. He has to acknowledge this was terrorism on our shores under his watch and now he like a rabid dog backed into a corner.

Do you ever post anything that is not absurd when it comes to Obama and the Democrats?

Do you realize that constantly yelling "fire" encourages people to ignore you and your latest rant?

Meanwhile, PA ignores your continuous barrage of political rubbish and zeros in on the left-leaning Ebcorde with this TOS obliterator: "You're even a bigger ****ing idiot than even I had considered mere hours ago. Congrats." :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

Meanwhile, PA ignores your continuous barrage of political rubbish and zeros in on the left-leaning Ebcorde with this TOS obliterator: "You're even a bigger ****ing idiot than even I had considered mere hours ago. Congrats." :rolleyes:Damn right. And proud of it.

[upthecreek]

His vocabulary doesn't contain the words terrorist,terrorism, Muslim,radical extremist etc
And I agree who cares what he says

[Marshall Bennett]

Obama's big push has been that ISIS is under control and if fact losing. Obviously with a homegrown terrorist attack being a battle win for ISIS, and accomplices likely loose here as well, he's boxed himself in and has no choice but to act.
He knows we're not winning and knows there's no control over it. If he doesn't own up to it in some shape or form tonight and declare war as war should be fought, I'll consider him the enemy's best friend in the world.
It is what it is !!!

[Greyfox]

If he doesn't own up to it in some shape or form tonight and declare war as war should be fought, I'll consider him the enemy's best friend in the world.
It is what it is !!!

Bosh. The only thing he will declare war with is climate change.
Different than Don Quixote, he's fighting for windmills.

[Tom]

Do you realize that constantly yelling "fire" encourages people to ignore you and your latest rant?

Hey EINTSTEIN.
You do realize that many neighbors of the two terrorists observed suspicious behavior for several weeks and did not report it FOR FEAR of being LABELED RACIST, thanks to Obama's constant drivel.

Yelling fire?
Only to blind idiot's.
HAND, BI.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by NJ Stinks
Meanwhile, PA ignores your continuous barrage of political rubbish and zeros in on the left-leaning Ebcorde with this TOS obliterator: "You're even a bigger ****ing idiot than even I had considered mere hours ago. Congrats."

1. His board, HIS TOS.
2. The other jerk is blatant racist -you supporting hims tells me a whole lot about YOU.

[hcap]

Addressing Mr.70,000+ doodoo droppings (and still going :lol: :lol: :lol: )....Do you ever post anything that is not absurd when it comes to Obama and the Democrats?

Do you realize that constantly yelling "fire" encourages people to ignore you and your latest rant?

Meanwhile, PA ignores your continuous barrage of political rubbish and zeros in on the left-leaning Ebcorde with this TOS obliterator: "You're even a bigger ****ing idiot than even I had considered mere hours ago. Congrats." :rolleyes:PA off topic is getting more and more like Drudge and the many chronically drooling FOX pundits with a large dose of Alex Jones thrown in.

I still have my home page set for PA, but as more and more frantic conspiratorial Alex Jone type conservatives sign up, the more I begin to think that some malignant virus has reset my home page to the Drudge Report. :eek:

[classhandicapper]

The man has proven to be inconsequential when it comes to stopping well organized terrorist groups, so who cares what he says.

I agree with this 100%.

He has made himself totally irrelevant other than any further damage he might do. I consider him an inconvenient reality that Americans are going to have to deal with until we have a competent person in charge.

[ebcorde]

I hope it's invade Saudi Arabia source of all the problems instead of
Iraq War 3.0

or maybe it's "Hey Germany has it right, the Germans are telling the Saudis to stop promoting Terrorism". .. oh wait we can't Germany is not dependent on Saudi oil, we are. so maybe it's ...

All the terrorists Haji go to Mecca. We can catch them all there.

[ebcorde]

you have a 1 in 4 million chance of dying at the hands of a a terrorist.
you have a 1 in 8,000 chance of dying in a car accident

if you want to spend 200 billion more a year on stopping terrorism then vote for the Trumpster.

[woodtoo]

"the Islamic terrorist Christmas party massacre in San Bernadino"

What he will mean "God damn America"

[Tom]

Ah, Barry and Chicken-Little hcap have the way to destroy ISIS - let the sky fall on them! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[boxcar]

Addressing Mr.70,000+ doodoo droppings (and still going :lol: :lol: :lol: )....PA off topic is getting more and more like Drudge and the many chronically drooling FOX pundits with a large dose of Alex Jones thrown in.

I still have my home page set for PA, but as more and more frantic conspiratorial Alex Jone type conservatives sign up, the more I begin to think that some malignant virus has reset my home page to the Drudge Report. :eek:

Drudge would represent a huge upgrade to the nonsense you've been feeding your mind all these many decades.

[ebcorde]

start reminding ourselves who we were once. The British

They calmly sent their kids to the west coast and kept a stiff upper lip against Hitler remaining confident.

cheers.

[hcap]

Drudge would represent a huge upgrade to the nonsense you've been feeding your mind all these many decades.
I guess you must be the conspiratorial rights' PA off topic official preacher.

Drudge is the worst. Only Alex Jones and maybe WorldNutDaily are a tad lower. Hows about a religious slant on your man Trump? There are no valid political reasons Trump is at 36%.

A good portion of the republican party is about to commit political suicide. Hey preach, why is Trump the leading candidate? Drudge is partly to blame along with the rampant extreme rights paranoia of anything Obama/Dem, along with many other crazy conspiratorial media sources that feed that paranoia.

[classhandicapper]

you have a 1 in 4 million chance of dying at the hands of a a terrorist.
you have a 1 in 8,000 chance of dying in a car accident


Take a stats class and looks at the policies of this president.

I'm getting tired of explaining this topic to people who are getting their information from democrats that went to common core schools.

[ArlJim78]

He's going to talk tough, announce some token response to terror, call for additional gun control measures and remind us that we must proceed with accepting Syrian refugee's because that's "who we are".

[davew]

He's going to talk tough, announce some token response to terror, call for additional gun control measures and remind us that we must proceed with accepting Syrian refugee's because that's "who we are".

ISIS is contained and a non-issue - the pressing problem today is the climate talks in France.


Obama is a visionary and is viewing the world 100 years from now, and what he wants to see.

[Tom]

Obama is a visionary and is viewing the world 100 years from now, and what he wants to see.

A nice place for ISIS to live?

but I know ISIS will be tuned in tonight.
anyone catch that special on CNN about them?
The laugh at Obama on TV - they think he is a joke.

They are correct.
The address is listed in the ISIS TV Guide as "Kenyan Komedy Night"

[zico20]

He's going to talk tough, announce some token response to terror, call for additional gun control measures and remind us that we must proceed with accepting Syrian refugee's because that's "who we are".

Damn, you were so close! :D If you just would have mentioned global warming as a product of ISIS you would have been spot on.

[ebcorde]

Take a stats class and looks at the policies of this president.

I'm getting tired of explaining this topic to people who are getting their information from democrats that went to common core schools.



common core? ha ha ha Nice try Public/Catholic school kid.

you never explained a thing. In fact your argument is the typical insult technique.

I just chose to fight the same way as you. we'll never change each others opinions, so let's dig trenches and throw grenades at each other

[ebcorde]

A nice place for ISIS to live?

but I know ISIS will be tuned in tonight.
anyone catch that special on CNN about them?
The laugh at Obama on TV - they think he is a joke.

They are correct.
The address is listed in the ISIS TV Guide as "Kenyan Komedy Night"

look dude you seem to have some clue. follow my bread crumbs.


1. Bush chose to Invade Iraq before 100% proof of WMD.
2. Bush chose to keep Iraq as one nation after overthrowing Saddam
3. The UN did not keep Yugoslavia together after Tito died
4. Biden and Murtha both said let the Kurds, Sunnis, Shia govern themselves
5. Shia with 60% of the electorate wins and exacts revenge on the Sunnis
6. US Takes the shia side.
7. Al-bagati a Sunni former US prisoner creates ISIS based on the vision of Zarqawi
8. Sunni bad-asses take Iraq after a BROKE US leaves. Shia runs like hell.

Today Marco Rubio thinks we have to get Sunnis to fight with us
???????????????????? after we killed 300000- 500000 , tortured them in prisons, they'll work with us? Rubio is on crack. He'll give them weapons and they will kill us.

ask yourself? If Americans killed half your family , then the Shia come in and take out half of what's left , would YOU work with them or demand a separate country?

I don't understand why Rubio thinks it's easy. he would never give in.

[Tom]

We have no allies in the Middle East.
Only targets.

Syria should cease to exist.

[Racey]

is a fraud who wants Us foreign policy to offer a small footprint.....he has achieved his goal. The middle east is a disaster under this president all he cares about is legacy for apologizing for the US and not offending anyone. Another terrorist attack here might wake him up but I doubt it. :bang:

[Track Collector]

I have no respect for our President, so I will not be watching him on TV.

While waiting for his address to start and pass, I just switched my RTN to Australian racing. :)

[davew]

is a fraud who wants Us foreign policy to offer a small footprint.....he has achieved his goal. The middle east is a disaster under this president all he cares about is legacy for apologizing for the US and not offending anyone. Another terrorist attack here might wake him up but I doubt it. :bang:

He wants a specific strategy for Daesh, I think it would work great if he, Kerry, and Biden all went to Raqqah and do a face to face negotiation and give them all they want. I see no possible problems with this strategy.

[horses4courses]

Many of you think the prez should be wearing a Superman cape.
That he is all-powerful, and can remedy the worst of situations.

Well, I've news for y'all.
The US president has only been able to play
the hand he's been dealt for quite some time now.
Even your GOP idols couldn't call all the shots worldwide.

Blame Obama all you want. You always do, regardless.
It's been downhill since Nixon, really.
Think anything else and you're fooling yourself.

Instead of Clark Kent, you have more of an Emerald City scenario.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain :lol:

[johnhannibalsmith]

In terms of the bullet points, the speech was rather predictable. But in the context of his speeches, it was his very best in a long, long time.

He was able to remain true to his positions on several major issues, but deviated from his tendencies of omission to be more inclusive with the legitimate concerns of those that do not share his strategic views in general.

While the gun control element was predictable and could have easily been seen as political hay, he was fairly specific in illustrating the sort of reforms that were relevant to this subject by speaking to the no-fly list (which brings on another debate, but he was in fact topical on the matter).

While he called upon Americans to not stereotype, discriminate, and ostracize Muslims, he did so in the context of working together, and actually called out Muslims to more or less pledge an allegiance to the country and the true ideals of Islam and out those that bastardize the religion that they practice and perpetuate the stereotyping and discrimination with their silence and conflicted loyalties.

While he dismissed outright the notion of Team USA launching in and obliterating this and that, he did call upon Congress to formalize the military undertakings that he has engaged in and continues to, and gave a simple but succinct explanation for his perspective against out-and-out ground war as we know it. He even went above and beyond by acknowledging the concerns of our Visa shortcomings and the nature of technology and its effect on contemporary war in this context.

Obviously many here disagree with almost every bit of this, but he made almost no political references, nor did he lay any blame or cast any aspersions. He didn't use the speech to castigate the political opposition and appeared as more of a statesman than at any time since being sworn in with his approach tonight.

As far as Obama goes, it was a banner moment and probably as good as it could possibly be without causing concern that there was an impersonator speaking.

[Tom]

He wants a specific strategy for Daesh, I think it would work great if he, Kerry, and Biden all went to Raqqah and do a face to face negotiation and give them all they want. I see no possible problems with this strategy.

That is the key!
Face to face.
One groups of world-citizens to another.
I will get behind Obama to do this!

Go down,Barry,
Let my people go!

[Tom]

Many of you think the prez should be wearing a Superman cape.
That he is all-powerful, and can remedy the worst of situations.

I'd be happy if he took off the Mickey Mouse outfit.

[Tom]

The no-fly list idea is stupid. End of story.
There is no due process involved.
I was on a freaking no fly list for a while - seriously. Took a lot of work to get off it. Some righteous muslim had the same name as me. Whoda thunk it.

Lists are nothing.
Nixon had a list of enemies.
I have a list here.
Santa has a list. He checked it twice.

Do something substantial, Ass Clown....you only have a year left to get off your lazy dumb ass and act like a United States President. Ask your wife for a copy Being President for Dummies book and read it.

[fast4522]

I listened to the guy, I thought that he told the whole world uncle. He is leaving the task to who his successor.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The no-fly list idea is stupid. End of story.
There is no due process involved.
...

On this point, I agree (which is why I added the caveat) and was surprised to hear him mention it. Above and beyond scenarios like your own, it is obvious what demographic is most likely to be added to the list. Were it another sort of list that was populated by a disproportionate amount of other minorities, we'd have the DOJ investigating civil rights violations at his insistence. So it makes for a weird scenario to have him bringing it up, especially with so many convinced that he's closet Al-Qaeda. Then again, we have ample precedence of suspending due process and civil rights in times of war, so maybe it can be read in a few ways above and beyond political capitulation.

[Greyfox]

While he called upon Americans to not stereotype, discriminate, and ostracize Muslims, he did so in the context of working together, and actually called out Muslims to more or less pledge an allegiance to the country and the true ideals of Islam and out those that bastardize the religion that they practice and perpetuate the stereotyping and discrimination with their silence and conflicted loyalties.



True ideals of Islam?

Gimmee a break Jake.

Obama's rosy presentation of Islam's ideals did not acknowledge several fundamental tenets of the Koran (Qur'an)
For starters, infidels must be:
1. converted
2. made slaves
3. killed
ISIS is practicing those ideals.
They are not in any way bastardizing them- as you say.
The silence of so many other Muslims is that they too know that via the Angel Gabriel in his conversations with Muhammed in a cave, Allah has made those commands.
If you knew anything about the history of this religion and the murderous activities of Muhammed, you would never ever johnhannibalsmith try to sell us on the rhetoric that Obama used this evening.
In my opinion, Obama said nothing new tonight to assure the nation that he is on top of this problem.

[Marshall Bennett]

Most of what he said I expected. He acts as if the American public is at war with Muslims in this country. Considering the attacks we've been killed in, including 911, I think if anything the opposite is true. If you shop around the city of Houston for instance, the number of shop owners of Arab origin are staggering. I know of none off the top of my head that have been looted and/or set ablaze.

[upthecreek]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/07/new-intelligence-report-commission-by-white-house-says-isis-not-contained.html

[boxcar]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/07/new-intelligence-report-commission-by-white-house-says-isis-not-contained.html

Au contraire! They are indeed "contained" -- right here in this country. Stay tuned for the next time the lid comes off the can again.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... you would never ever johnhannibalsmith try to sell us on the rhetoric that Obama used ....

Sell you?

Trust me, I wouldn't bother trying to sell anyone here on anything.

[Greyfox]

Sell you?

Trust me, I wouldn't bother trying to sell anyone here on anything.

You were selling the idea that it was his best speech in a long time.
I didn't see it that way.
I saw it as a sales pitch by Obama for Americans to be tolerant of Muslims and the true ideals of Islam.
But the true ideals of Islam include world dominance as ordered by Allah.
Also, the true ideals of Islam are for society to be ruled by the words of Allah.
That fundamentally means that Islam does not accept democratic rule.
Islam wants to establish theocracies around the world.
Obama never mentions that, although I'm sure he's well aware of that true ideal of Islam.
The speech was essentially what I would expect from a Publicity Director for Islam, not that of a President of the United States who places democracy as a guiding concept.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Well really, what do you expect him to do? Realistically? Deliver your interpretation of the religion to the masses and declare Islam a plague on not just America but the world at large? I'm giving my reaction and in the context of Obama and his redundant messages over and over, he managed to hit on all the predictable things while also throwing out a few surprises that you wouldn't have expected from a guy that's a lame duck with nothing to worry about and consumed with saving face at all times. Acquiescence is just not something he does and yet he was willing to on a few pretty important concepts. If you thought he was going to straight up convert on those concepts, I guess you are going to be terribly disappointed in the speech no matter what he said. My reaction/observation/opinion whatever you want to call it to the speech is based almost entirely on the departure from the speeches that are nothing more than political angling, pitting citizens against one another because of an upcoming election or vote or polling or whatever. I thought that I was fairly clear that I didn't necessarily agree with his ideas, but that it was simply refreshing to hear him posit on that front while conceding a few things to try to garner some support for those ideas. It hasn't been in his playbook for seven years and is one of the major reasons, in my opinion, why he has largely been a massive disappointment.

[woodtoo]

True ideals of Islam?

Gimmee a break Jake.

Obama's rosy presentation of Islam's ideals did not acknowledge several fundamental tenets of the Koran (Qur'an)
For starters, infidels must be:
1. converted
2. made slaves
3. killed
ISIS is practicing those ideals.
They are not in any way bastardizing them- as you say.
The silence of so many other Muslims is that they too know that via the Angel Gabriel in his conversations with Muhammed in a cave, Allah has made those commands.
If you knew anything about the history of this religion and the murderous activities of Muhammed, you would never ever johnhannibalsmith try to sell us on the rhetoric that Obama used this evening.
In my opinion, Obama said nothing new tonight to assure the nation that he is on top of this problem.
This is the elephant in the room, getting islam out of stone age. As it is currently taught in madrassa's thruout Arabia, Afghanistan etc. It is
unacceptable.

[Greyfox]

Well really, what do you expect him to do? Realistically? Deliver your interpretation of the religion to the masses and declare Islam a plague on not just America but the world at large?.

I'd expect more honesty from the man.
For starters, U.S. intelligence reports estimate that ISIS may have as many as 300,000,000 (300 million) Muslim sympathizers around the world.
That is not a small fraction of the Islam religion as Obama suggested.
Secondly, he fails to acknowledge that Islam is also a huge political movement.
It's leaders have a huge political agenda. Some adherents will try to establish their goals by peaceful means. Some adherents will try to establish their goals by violent means.

Nevertheless, Islam is a far more dangerous political movement than any of the other fascisms of the 20 th Century. It's believers hold that God (Allah) is at the helm and guiding them.
Until Westerners realize that this is a POLITICAL MOVEMENT under the guise of religion, we'll always be at a disadvantage to them.

[classhandicapper]

Until Westerners realize that this is a POLITICAL MOVEMENT under the guise of religion, we'll always be at a disadvantage to them.
[/b]

It's also an economic movement. Their banking rules, beliefs about interest rates etc.. are different.

That's exactly what people don't understand. Even if they were all peaceful and not warring between their own tribes all the time too, what they would want peacefully is not exactly compatible with western democracy, free markets, and our laws. We could theoretically peacefully co-exist, but whenever there are two competing grand ideas for the world it has generally caused conflict.

Something is going to have to change so that their views on organizing society are reasonably compatible with ours. Then who cares what they believe about Allah.

[Robert Goren]

I'd expect more honesty from the man.
For starters, U.S. intelligence reports estimate that ISIS may have as many as 300,000,000 (300 million) Muslim sympathizers around the world.
That is not a small fraction of the Islam religion as Obama suggested.
Secondly, he fails to acknowledge that Islam is also a huge political movement.
It's leaders have a huge political agenda. Some adherents will try to establish their goals by peaceful means. Some adherents will try to establish their goals by violent means.

Nevertheless, Islam is a far more dangerous political movement than any of the other fascisms of the 20 th Century. It's believers hold that God (Allah) is at the helm and guiding them.
Until Westerners realize that this is a POLITICAL MOVEMENT under the guise of religion, we'll always be at a disadvantage to them.
There are 1.6 billion Moslems in the world. About 1.3 billion are Sunni. But like Protestants in Christianity, there are several sects of Sunni. Although the number of 300 million seems pretty high, the number of ISIS sympathizers is definitely growing. There was very active but relative small number of anti- Western terrorists pre Iraqi War. The Syrian War has caused the number of anti- Western terrorists grow by leaps bounds. Pre Iraqi war there probably fewer than 10 million Muslin that were strongly anti-Western. Today there are at least 100 million of which there are probably 100,000 potential terrorists world wide. I seen estimates that may be as many 10,000 in the United States, most of which are US citizens. How many of those will eventually act is anyone's guess. One thing is for sure, any potential terrorist in the United States that decides to act can do so with relative ease. They will have no trouble in getting bomb making supplies and Military grade guns and ammo. Fortunately for us, most of them are so mentally ill that their ability to kill more than few people is limited. When a sane terrorist decides to act, they can cause real carnage like in California. Even there, things could have been a lot worse.

[Thebart]

It doesn't matter whether you're a Republican or Democrat. I have always respected - and not hesitated to show that respect - for Republican Presidents from Nixon through both Bush's. And the same goes for Democratic presidents from Carter through Obama. I was raised to believe that a real American always show respect for the office and it's occupant.

It is disturbing that so many on here will reproduce viral emails distributing birther and other BS, subscribe to the most hideous conspiracy theories, and such demeaning language in referring to our current president. One idiot even suggested that since he doesn't respect the President, he just tuned to Australian racing. There's a real brain surgeon. Perhaps he should consider just going to the Australian paradise and wagering there.

I don't always agree with Obama. I was actually disappointed that his speech didn't go far enough in terms of insisting on ground troops from the Saudi's and gulf oil nations to fight ISIS.

But I did watch and listen. The man is our president and it would be nice if those with hate in their heart would grow up and act like real Americans. It is OK to disagree, but we don't have to be disagreeable all the time.

[classhandicapper]

It doesn't matter whether you're a Republican or Democrat. I have always respected - and not hesitated to show that respect - for Republican Presidents from Nixon through both Bush's.

So have I, but IMO this man is contemptible.

He has been wrong on virtually every major policy decision he's made during his administration (which is bad enough), but he does it with an arrogance like the rest of us are the problem when things go bad.

It's bad enough he is wrecking the economy long term with debt accumulation, healthcare promises that can never be kept, and putting our lives and position in the world at greater risk than they need be, but then I have to look at that smug face like we don't get it. When he's not doing that, he's not man enough to admit he's made a mistake. He lies and deflects and again blames others. I thought Bush did a lot of foolish things, but I never came away from any of it disliking him. I actually kind of liked the guy. Same with Clinton, Carter and the rest. This guy, it's impossible.

[Tom]

Respect is earned.
Or, in this case, not.

FUBO.

[PaceAdvantage]

Many of you think the prez should be wearing a Superman cape.
That he is all-powerful, and can remedy the worst of situations.You mean like you guys thought Bush should have acted after Andy Card whispered in his ear that fateful September morning in 2001?

Donned his cape and flew out the window to save America?

You're nothing but a joke and a huge hypocrite at this moment.

[Tom]

OK, some one leaning left please answer this for me.
Obama said that the radical islamists do not represent islam and are a small part of it. But when the radical use mosques to plant their terror attacks and hide weapons, as they did in Iraq, doesn't that disqualify them as islamic religious sanctuaries and turn them into targets, to raid, eavesdrop on, bomb, whatever? And would that not be the right thing to do to protect the majority of islamics who are being used by the radical few? After all, the mosques and their flocks did not report the terrorists, so must not we assume THEY are
radical as well?

[PaceAdvantage]

No, no, no, no, no Tom! Your puny undeveloped Monkey-Brain simply can't comprehend the subtle complexities that play themselves out every single day on the world stage. Only a genius like Obama and his friends are capable of such Herculean mental tasks such as this...that's why we leave everything up to DEAR LEADER to figure out FOR US and to keep US SAFE. For without him, we are nothing..


:lol:

[Tom]

My gosh, you are right, PA.
Why didn't I see that before?

I feel so safe now, I will remove the lock from my doors on my house and leave them open all the time from now on.

Same with my car, and I will leave the keys in the ignition and park it two blocks from my house every night. And leave my shopping bags in the back seat, windows down.

And here, my SS number is 455-4W-5421.
And my bank password it Ali Akbar57.

I am making Bean Soup tonight, and I will not even bother to look for stones in the beans before I cook them. I am sure they have been properly vetted.

No need to worry now, Barry has my back!

Serenity NOW! :p

[Thebart]

So have I, but IMO this man is contemptible.

He has been wrong on virtually every major policy decision he's made during his administration (which is bad enough), but he does it with an arrogance like the rest of us are the problem when things go bad.

It's bad enough he is wrecking the economy long term with debt accumulation, healthcare promises that can never be kept, and putting our lives and position in the world at greater risk than they need be, but then I have to look at that smug face like we don't get it. When he's not doing that, he's not man enough to admit he's made a mistake. He lies and deflects and again blames others. I thought Bush did a lot of foolish things, but I never came away from any of it disliking him. I actually kind of liked the guy. Same with Clinton, Carter and the rest. This guy, it's impossible.

I suspect you are blind to the fact that it was Reagan who in an absurd quest to use Arab terrorists to defeat the former Soviet Union in Afghanistan who armed the that gang to the teeth. Then Bin Laden used that force and weapons to create Al Queada.

Papa Bush, always loyal to the Royal Family interests of the Saudia Arabia and Kuwait felt it necessary to save Kuwait from Saddam Husein. But, he was smart enough to do the job, get in, get Hussein's forces out of Kuwait, and leave.

Unfortunately his son W. Bush under the guidance of Cheney invaded Iraq, destroyed any semblance of government. Dismissed thousands of soldiers and police and left them broke with no job. All based on the ignorant (and I do mean ignorant) notion that they would just love and embrace western style democracy. The result: Total Bleeping Chaos and now another new force that hates America. Is it any wonder that substantial parts of that force - trained by Husein's government - have embraced ISIS?

Oh, but no, only Obama, Clinton, Carter get named and ridiculed. I see it differently. Yes, Democratic presidents have made foreign policy mistakes. But none as big and costly as those made by Reagan and W. Bush.

Oh, don't lecture us on debt without mentioning that W. Bush put the entire bleeping Gulf war on the federal credit card because Republicans apparently think war it free. No free lunch, but perpetual free war. Or so they think.

Finally, on the point of arrogance and smugness, no president I know demonstrated more arrogance then W. Bush standing in front of a Mission Accomplished banner on a US Ship when nothing permanent had been accomplished and in fact, the entire region had been thrown into chaos because Bush didn't know how to stand up to Cheney's war machine of advisers.

[thaskalos]

I suspect you are blind to the fact that it was Reagan who in an absurd quest to use Arab terrorists to defeat the former Soviet Union in Afghanistan who armed the that gang to the teeth. Then Bin Laden used that force and weapons to create Al Queada.

Papa Bush, always loyal to the Royal Family interests of the Saudia Arabia and Kuwait felt it necessary to save Kuwait from Saddam Husein. But, he was smart enough to do the job, get in, get Hussein's forces out of Kuwait, and leave.

Unfortunately his son W. Bush under the guidance of Cheney invaded Iraq, destroyed any semblance of government. Dismissed thousands of soldiers and police and left them broke with no job. All based on the ignorant (and I do mean ignorant) notion that they would just love and embrace western style democracy. The result: Total Bleeping Chaos and now another new force that hates America. Is it any wonder that substantial parts of that force - trained by Husein's government - have embraced ISIS?

Oh, but no, only Obama, Clinton, Carter get named and ridiculed. I see it differently. Yes, Democratic presidents have made foreign policy mistakes. But none as big and costly as those made by Reagan and W. Bush.

Oh, don't lecture us on debt without mentioning that W. Bush put the entire bleeping Gulf war on the federal credit card because Republicans apparently think war it free. No free lunch, but perpetual free war. Or so they think.

Finally, on the point of arrogance and smugness, no president I know demonstrated more arrogance then W. Bush standing in front of a Mission Accomplished banner on a US Ship when nothing permanent had been accomplished and in fact, the entire region had been thrown into chaos because Bush didn't know how to stand up to Cheney's war machine of advisers.

Just a minute here...

You are the guy who told us a while ago that it is the duty of every "real American" to respect the American president at all times. "Always show respect for the office and its occupant"...you told us. And now you take the podium...and you blast EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM?

If none of them are any good...then why are they entitled to our respect, in the FIRST place?

[Tom]

I suspect you are blind to the fact that it was Reagan who in an absurd quest to use Arab terrorists to defeat the former Soviet Union in Afghanistan who armed the that gang to the teeth. Then Bin Laden used that force and weapons to create Al Queada.

Not absurd at all. It worked.
Stinger missiles drove the USSR out of Afghanistan. They USSR was our #1 enemy at the time, not terrorists. That ultimately resulted in the falling of the Iron Curtain. The mistake was assuming those people were rational, civilized human beings.

[Thebart]

Just a minute here...

You are the guy who told us a while ago that it is the duty of every "real American" to respect the American president at all times. "Always show respect for the office and its occupant"...you told us. And now you take the podium...and you blast EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM?

If none of them are any good...then why are they entitled to our respect, in the FIRST place?

No, I gave Bush 41 credit for getting out of Iraq after doing what he felt had to do. Although I think Bush 43 made a huge blunder believing in false info about WMD and using that as the basis for going to war, I don't think his entire eight years in office was all, even mostly, bad. But, his decision to go to war and the chaos that has ensued has been a disaster. John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Hillary Clinton were war hawks to take out Quadiffi and Assad, that policy has created a mess too.

The lesson it seems so many, both left and right, need to learn is that in some parts of the world a strong secular dictator might be better than some false hope of imposing democracy. That has rarely, if ever, worked.

Unlike you, I can look at the whole picture and distinguish between good and bad.

But, I always treat the Presidency and whoever holds the office with respect. A lot on here seem to have a problem with that.

[thaskalos]

No, I gave Bush 41 credit for getting out of Iraq after doing what he felt had to do. Although I think Bush 43 made a huge blunder believing in false info about WMD and using that as the basis for going to war, I don't think his entire eight years in office was all, even mostly, bad. But, his decision to go to war and the chaos that has ensued has been a disaster. John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Hillary Clinton were war hawks to take out Quadiffi and Assad, that policy has created a mess too.

The lesson it seems so many, both left and right, need to learn is that in some parts of the world a strong secular dictator might be better than some false hope of imposing democracy. That has rarely, if ever, worked.

Unlike you, I can look at the whole picture and distinguish between good and bad.

But, I always treat the Presidency and whoever holds the office with respect. A lot on here seem to have a problem with that.

Unlike you...I consider the president, and all the other politicians, to be mere public SERVANTS. They are voted into office by the citizens in order for them to do a JOB...and their competence at that job determines the level of respect that they can expect.

If they are rotten presidents, then, not only shouldn't they be "respected"...they should be SCORNED, and, if possible...IMPEACHED!

[newtothegame]

Unlike you...I consider the president, and all the other politicians, to be mere public SERVANTS. They are voted into office by the citizens in order for them to do a JOB...and their competence at that job determines the level of respect that they can expect.

If they are rotten presidents, then, not only shouldn't they be "respected"...they should be SCORNED, and, if possible...IMPEACHED!
I knew we would agree on some things Thask....!!!!!!
Elected officials, president or otherwise, are servants to the people of the U.S. Thank you!!!!

[rastajenk]

I remember, back in the day (which is to say, the previous administration), when dissent was regarded as the highest form of patriotism, with no conditions on the vileness or the totality of disrespect with which that dissent was expressed. Congrats to thebart for the evenhandedness in showing respect, but let's not pretend that the current occupier has had it any harder than previous occupiers.

[woodtoo]

It doesn't matter whether you're a Republican or Democrat. I have always respected - and not hesitated to show that respect - for Republican Presidents from Nixon through both Bush's. And the same goes for Democratic presidents from Carter through Obama. I was raised to believe that a real American always show respect for the office and it's occupant.

It is disturbing that so many on here will reproduce viral emails distributing birther and other BS, subscribe to the most hideous conspiracy theories, and such demeaning language in referring to our current president. One idiot even suggested that since he doesn't respect the President, he just tuned to Australian racing. There's a real brain surgeon. Perhaps he should consider just going to the Australian paradise and wagering there.

I don't always agree with Obama. I was actually disappointed that his speech didn't go far enough in terms of insisting on ground troops from the Saudi's and gulf oil nations to fight ISIS.

But I did watch and listen. The man is our president and it would be nice if those with hate in their heart would grow up and act like real Americans. It is OK to disagree, but we don't have to be disagreeable all the time.
Your gonna just love the interview retired Lt Gen. Ralph Peters gave today
on FOX business. he called the O, a total pussy, and explained the reasons why.
the news guy then told him he is not allowed to say that on live tv.
I kid you not.

[rastajenk]

General Peters is getting days for his opinion.

[woodtoo]

General Peters is getting days for his opinion.
Yes 2 weeks. #catslifesmatter

[horses4courses]

You mean like you guys thought Bush should have acted after Andy Card whispered in his ear that fateful September morning in 2001?

Donned his cape and flew out the window to save America?

You're nothing but a joke and a huge hypocrite at this moment.

You miss my point completely.
Pretty reassuring, actually.

[Tom]

Pray the more of our military leaders get fed up with this POS Kenyan trash and stage a military coup. BTW, he was spot about he Pussy N Chief. ISIS laughs at this ass clown, rightfully so. there is no more of a recruitment tool that Obama the Weak.

[Tom]

You miss my point completely.
Pretty reassuring, actually.
Tastes more bitter when it comes around than when it went around, huh? :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

You miss my point completely.
Pretty reassuring, actually.I couldn't have been any more dart-like in my precision regarding your "point."

[classhandicapper]

I suspect you are blind to the fact that it was Reagan who in an absurd quest to use Arab terrorists to defeat the former Soviet Union in Afghanistan who armed the that gang to the teeth. Then Bin Laden used that force and weapons to create Al Queada.

Papa Bush, always loyal to the Royal Family interests of the Saudia Arabia and Kuwait felt it necessary to save Kuwait from Saddam Husein. But, he was smart enough to do the job, get in, get Hussein's forces out of Kuwait, and leave.

Unfortunately his son W. Bush under the guidance of Cheney invaded Iraq, destroyed any semblance of government. Dismissed thousands of soldiers and police and left them broke with no job. All based on the ignorant (and I do mean ignorant) notion that they would just love and embrace western style democracy. The result: Total Bleeping Chaos and now another new force that hates America. Is it any wonder that substantial parts of that force - trained by Husein's government - have embraced ISIS?

Oh, but no, only Obama, Clinton, Carter get named and ridiculed. I see it differently. Yes, Democratic presidents have made foreign policy mistakes. But none as big and costly as those made by Reagan and W. Bush.

Oh, don't lecture us on debt without mentioning that W. Bush put the entire bleeping Gulf war on the federal credit card because Republicans apparently think war it free. No free lunch, but perpetual free war. Or so they think.

Finally, on the point of arrogance and smugness, no president I know demonstrated more arrogance then W. Bush standing in front of a Mission Accomplished banner on a US Ship when nothing permanent had been accomplished and in fact, the entire region had been thrown into chaos because Bush didn't know how to stand up to Cheney's war machine of advisers.

I agree with about 50% of what you said, but I'm too tired of this BS to elaborate. By the way, I mentioned and ridiculed Bush, not just democrats.

I honestly thought that Bush was so bad, I would not and could not see a worse president in my lifetime. I was very wrong.

Comparing this guy to any president in my lifetime is laughable. I don't care which party they belonged to. They all make mistakes, but this guy is turning the US into an economic, social, and foreign policy Titantic. His level of incompetence, denial, and delusion would be laughable except that I'm on the Titanic with him and have to tolerate his arrogance of top of it.

Seriously, why should I respect a man that is damaging the fruits of 40 years of my labor, savings, & investment, crushing the long term economy under the most massive increases of debt relative to GDP we've ever seen, adding additional promises on top of that, printing trillions of dollars to fund it all, putting me at greater risk of harm, and turning the country into something I am hard pressed to admire?

I have no respect for him at all. He's a terrible president.

[delayjf]

Although I think Bush 43 made a huge blunder believing in false info about WMD and using that as the basis for going to war,

I'd like to again take this opportunity to remind everyone that had Bush not gone into Iraq, Syria would not have given up their WMD program and those weapons would probably be in the hands of ISIS.

[Tom]

Not to mention that huge list of dems who also BELIEVED WMDs were in the hands of Saddam Hussein.

And, Jeff, Libya gave up her nukes as well.
Benghazi could have been a lot worse than it was.

[Marshall Bennett]

I'd like to again take this opportunity to remind everyone that had Bush not gone into Iraq, Syria would not have given up their WMD program and those weapons would probably be in the hands of ISIS.
History will have it sorted out one day and Bush will get the credit he deserves. Times are complex and out of the ordinary now.
If Bush were still president, I'd bet my life a hundred times over that we wouldn't be seeing terrorism at near the level it is now. People would surely feel safer. He had his faults, but he would have never let it get out of control.

[classhandicapper]

History will have it sorted out one day and Bush will get the credit he deserves. Times are complex and out of the ordinary now.
If Bush were still president, I'd bet my life a hundred times over that we wouldn't be seeing terrorism at near the level it is now. People would surely feel safer. He had his faults, but he would have never let it get out of control.

I have to agree with this.

I believe it was a mistake, but I am operating with the benefit of seeing the results. At the time I was 50-50.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that Obama took a mistake and turned it into a disaster that never would have occurred had Bush been president. He never would have left to begin with. We'd probably still be dealing with occasional attacks on troops and ups and downs, but nothing close to what's going on now.

[Thebart]

I think a substantial part of the debt comes form W Bush putting his wars on the national credit card. Now about $4 billion. Maybe more.

Obama did not create the financial crisis of 2007 and 2008. You may not like his remedies, but he didn't create the mess.

[Tom]

The majority of it came from foolish spending by the jerk in the WH today, along with his two anti-American twins, the worthless bitch Pelosi and the waste of skin Reid. Two of the worst scumbags to ever live in this country. You want to see where this country went wrong - look to your left. But hold your nose.

[classhandicapper]

Obama did not create the financial crisis of 2007 and 2008. You may not like his remedies, but he didn't create the mess.

Ben Bernanke and Obama believe (like all good leftists) that printing money and easy credit should be used to prop up the economy. Now the world has so much debt we can't even raise interest rates to their free market level. Wall st is on edge over an increase of 1/4 percent when rates reals are still negative. It's preposterous. We have to keep printing trillions of dollars in rotation (first the US, then Japan, then Europe, and eventually back to the US). That's the mess that the next president is going to inherit. It's that's going to be WAY worse than the 2007-2008 crisis when it eventually blows up. Obama is presiding of what could eventually collapse our current currency system.

[thaskalos]

Ben Bernanke and Obama believe (like all good leftists) that printing money and easy credit should be used to prop up the economy. Now the world has so much debt we can't even raise interest rates to their free market level. Wall st is on edge over an increase of 1/4 percent when rates reals are still negative. It's preposterous. We have to keep printing trillions of dollars in rotation (first the US, then Japan, then Europe, and eventually back to the US). That's the mess that the next president is going to inherit. It's that's going to be WAY worse than the 2007-2008 crisis when it eventually blows up. Obama is presiding of what could eventually collapse our current currency system.

No politician -- not even the president -- "presides" over our current currency system. The politicians are TOLD what to do...and they do it. If you think Obama is capable of stopping the money-printing that's propping up our economy...then you have your head buried in the sand.

[classhandicapper]

No politician -- not even the president -- "presides" over our current currency system. The politicians are TOLD what to do...and they do it. If you think Obama is capable of stopping the money-printing that's propping up our economy...then you have your head buried in the sand.

1. The Fed is supposed to be independent of political influence but it is not. Monetary policy is tied to fiscal policy and the person in charge of the Fed is appointed by the president and reflects his views. He can choose someone that is a hard money hawk or he can choose someone that believes in loose money. The banks, Wall St, and government expansionists (democrats) will pressure him for a loose money guy, but he can pick a guy like Volker if he wants. He also has the bully pulpit if he disagrees with policy and can talk about future appointments.

2. The level of government spending (fiscal policy) is the result of what both the congress and the president want (which the left controlled for a substantial portion of this administration). It wasn't until the sequester (which the republicans forced) that spending growth slowed a little.

3. The Fed partially adjusts monetary policy to fiscal policy. It monetized the massive debt accumulation under this administration to help keep interest rates down despite the huge supply of new debt.

Would there have been large deficits no matter who was in charge?

Yes. But not as extreme under a fiscal conservative.

Would we have printed as much money as we did under a deficit and hard money hawk?

No.

We would have had a weaker economy in the short term if we did the right things, but there were MANY people on Wall St (mostly private investors) screaming to slow spending, stop QE, and raise interest rates long before now because it was creating monetary and credit excesses that we will eventually have to deal with in the future.

Is it really Obama's fault?

Not really. He doesn't even understand the problem. How could he fix it? But it's partially his responsibility just as the nonsense under Bush was his.

[delayjf]

History will have it sorted out one day and Bush will get the credit he deserves. Times are complex and out of the ordinary now.

The facts in the matter of Syria's WMD program are well known. I can certainly understand that the left certainly will never give GWB any credit regarding any positive outcome of the Gulf War. But now that things have played our the way they have in Syria, Conservatives (IMO) could use that fact to defend the US involvement in Iraq and to point out the potential threat we would be facing had Syria retained their WMDs.

But it's partially his responsibility just as the nonsense under Bush was his.

Classhandicapper,

What exactly are you referring to here?

[davew]

I think a substantial part of the debt comes form W Bush putting his wars on the national credit card. Now about $4 billion. Maybe more.

Obama did not create the financial crisis of 2007 and 2008. You may not like his remedies, but he didn't create the mess.

and $8 trillion later, the world is a better place

[delayjf]

and $8 trillion later, the world is a better place

Where do you get 8 trillion as the cost of the war?

[classhandicapper]

delayjf,

Bush inherited the telecom/dot.com bust and recession from Clinton just as Obama inherited the housing bust and recession from Bush.

All these guys have become Keynesians.

They respond to recessions by running deficits and lowering interest rates to below free market levels to stimulate demand. The one subtle difference is that democrats tend to create deficits by increasing spending and republicans tend to do it by lowering taxes. That's what Bush did.

Both strategies work in the short term, but they plant the seeds of the next bust.

Most booms and busts are part of a credit cycle. If you make credit very easy and cheap to get, people borrow to spend and invest. That sets off a boom that encourages other people to do the same until there are credit excesses somewhere. No one really knows where all that cheap money will go. All you can do is observe. We get a different kind of boom practically every time. This time it looks like it was energy markets (oil and gas) and possibly bonds and stocks. Eventually market forces (or tighter money) break the boom and turn it into a bust and recession.

When we get a recession, that is the free market trying to get the system healthy again (much as a drug addict goes through painful withdrawal). The central bank and politicians keep interfering in the market because withdrawal is painful. They give the economy a "fix". The problem is that the longer you keep doing that the sicker the patient gets. We've been doing that in an unhealthy fashion for close to 30 years and are very very sick. That's why even with interest rates incredibly low, money printing around the globe, and huge deficits the global economy is still weak. The amount of "fix" we need now to keep away the pain is so massive, it might kill the patient. The Keynesians have pretty much killed us. We are in uncharted territory. (though they will never admit it).

[Marshall Bennett]

People (mostly liberals) often forget that the house & senate was controlled by Democrats during the last 2 years of Bush's term. Plenty of time to tarnish what was otherwise an impressive presidency.

[delayjf]

Bush inherited the telecom/dot.com bust and recession from Clinton just as Obama inherited the housing bust and recession from Bush. All these guys have become Keynesians.

Class,

Thanks for the reply. It occurs to me that it would be difficult to be the President and not turn into a Keynesian. If the economy tanks, people are looking for the President to "do something", if you are facing re-elected, all the more pressure to step in with some kind of solution. If you are not up for re-election, then your party members who are, will pressure you to do something. I can't imagine any President telling the American people that as a nation, we need to suck it up. Look what happened to GHB when he went back on his word of no new taxes.

[classhandicapper]

Class,

Thanks for the reply. It occurs to me that it would be difficult to be the President and not turn into a Keynesian. If the economy tanks, people are looking for the President to "do something", if you are facing re-elected, all the more pressure to step in with some kind of solution. If you are not up for re-election, then your party members who are, will pressure you to do something. I can't imagine any President telling the American people that as a nation, we need to suck it up. Look what happened to GHB when he went back on his word of no new taxes.

I agree with you 100%.

The political pressures must be immense because it's not just your job on the line, you could easily lose the House & Senate too.

That's a flaw in our current banking and monetary system and was the goal behind having a true gold standard (which we never actually had). The idea was that if all deposits were backed by gold and there was no central bank manipulating interest rates and printing money, the excesses could never get as large. The recessions would be short violent events but not disasters. If the government tried to run deficits, interest rates would soar because you would need real savings to finance it. That would stop them before they could do as much damage. But there were other flaws in banking and there were incredible pressures to do away with gold because the left WANTS TO run deficits to finance the welfare state and Wall St wants easy money so it can be bailed out.