SOFTWARE LICENSE SEEKS NEW HOME

[baravot]

I own a software license for HSH(Horsestreet Handicapper) Pro and am willing to part with it for $500. The license includes rights to future upgrades and the right to use a 160,000+ database of races from most major tracks from 1/01/94 to 5/23/01. The database alone cost me $350 and I'm willing to include it with the license for FREE. This is a great opportunity for anyone who has considered investing in HSH or any current HSH user who would like to upgrade to the Pro version. If interested, send an email to baravot@hotmail.com. Serious inquiries only, please.

[Vinnie]

Baravot,

What has prompted you to give up such a fine handicapping tool as HSH apparently is? I didn't know that there were two different versions of HSH Handicapping Software programs? Please, when you have the time, could you let me know if there is both a standard and Pro Version of the HSH offering?

Thanks a bunch,

[baravot]

Hi Vinnie,

What has prompted me to give it up is a change in my priorities. I have a life beyond horseracing that necessitates that I spend far
less time in "serious" play, so I have decided to offer the program to someone who has the time and the inclination to put the program to better use than I can at this point.

As to your other question, yes there is an HSH "standard" version and a Pro version. The Pro version offers database capabilities and several other tools that are not contained in the standard version. I suggest you contact Dave Schwartz for a detailed explanation of the differences. Also, there are some posts by Slider on this board that may clarify the differences for you.

Hope that helps.

[Vinnie]

Baravot,

Thanks for going into detail on your explanation of HSH with regard to why you are looking to sell the program. It is a very serious program for someone who is looking to play on a regular basis. You have to be able to play all of the time to fully take advantage of such a program I am sure.

I wish you all of the BEST in your pursuits!

[anotherdave]

Just wondering how much HSH Pro goes for? I can't find it on the products list on the website.

[mike]

i.e. the program doesn't work and i went broke, therefore i hope some other sucker buys it.

[Dick Schmidt]

Mike,

Yeah, and all used cars are lemons and never buy a house that someone else has lived in. If they were any good, why would anyone sell them?

I question why you would call another member here a liar. This is based on what? Some experience you have had with him or just your general cynicism about everybody else? If you've used the program and don't like it, fine. Post your opinion. But to attack both a program you have never used and the integrity of a regular on this board is uncalled for.

Dick

[mike]

COME ON, WE ALL KNOW THAT NONE OF THESE PROGRAMS WORK. THEY JUST HELP ORGANIZE INFORMATION. CERTAIN PEOPLE WHILE IN THE MIDST OF A WINNING STREAK DELUDE THEMSELVES INTO THINKING THAT THEY WORK.

I ALWAYS BELIEVE TOTAL HONESTY ESPECIALLY AFTER 9/11 IS THE BEST POLICY.

I WOULD RESPECT SOMEONE MORE IF THEY JUST SAID THAT ITS FOR SALE WITHOUT THE FALSE HYPE.

[FortuneHunter]

Information organization is critical. It is what computers / computer programs are good for. Take a look at the thread "Beyer on Formulator Pro" on general discussion board.

In today's age of simulcasting and wagering oppertunities everyday, a program that can present the information you want, organized the way you want, and save you hours a day in handicapping time is very valuable.

I went back and read the initial post and did not see any hype.

A important point that was not brought out is the monthly charge for data by HDW at around $125 a month. Thats about $1500 a year. Granted, you get all the all tracks everyday, and if you want all tracks everyday, it is a the best price around.

However, if you have a life outside of horse playing, then HDW's deal isn't so hot. It's January, you want to catch up on projects in your woodshop, projects due at work, kids are playing basketball for sectional championship, ski weekends, your getting married, etc. etc.. You get a chance to sit down and handicap a few races a week, catch as catch can, maybe. Yet you have to pay $125 a month for data you won't use. I think it makes people feel obligated to spend time and play horses and when you lose it feels worse than if your playing of your own free will..

[Bruddah]

I know my priorities are different today, as I approach retirement, than when I handicpped my first horse race, in the 60's. I also need all the help I can get, in organizing the information available to handicappers today.

Yes, some of these programs do work and are not scams. They are the lifes sweat, blood and finances of some hardworking people. People who love the sport, sharing their ideas and hard work with the rest of us, which are either to lazy, or to dumb, or have other priorities.

To those non scammers I say, Thank you very much.

[Dick Schmidt]

Mike,

So now we are all liars, After all, if we "all know none of these programs work" and yet we ever say anything positive about them, we must not be telling the truth. That's some negative outlook on racing, and life in general, you've got going. Mind if I ask you a couple of questions? You can answer or just shut up at your option.

1) Have you actually used the programs you are calling worthless? You know from personal experience they don't work?

2) What do you say to those for whom they do work. I currently have two programs on my computer (HSH and Synergism) that can produce profits with NO user input or interpretation.

3) In the past 16 years, I've won about $500,000 using computer programs to analyze the races. Give me nothing but a Racing Form and a pencil and I'm a stone loser. I make money using computers. Do I have to give the money back because what I did was impossible?


Over the years, I have talked to any number of people who said that one program or another that I was using was bogus, a complete rip off. They questioned that I could be winning with such a POS, when they couldn't make it work. None of them much liked my answer: that the problem wasn't the program, it was the user. If others can make a program work and you can't, where does the fault lie?

Dick

P.S. Your gratuitous reference to 9/11, which has absolutely nothing to do with any of this, is hype in the very worst sense of the word. And if you believe in honesty, admit that you are expressing a personal prejudice and have never used HSH or most of the other programs mentioned on this board.

[mike]

BARRY MEADOWS HAS TESTED HUNDREDS OF COMMERCIAL PROGRAMS NOT ONE HAS GOTTEN TO BREAK-EVEN!

MOST OF THE PEOPLE BRAGGING ON THIS OR THAT PROGRAM ARE SHILLS.

MY DAD TOLD ME WHEN I WAS 12 YEARS OLD TO BEWARE OF RACE TRACK TOUTS. NO ONE WOULD SELL A PROGRAM THAT MAKES MONEY, THEY WOULD DO IT THEMSELVES.

IF YOU HAVE MADE MONEY GOD BLESS YOU.

I AM JUST EXPRESSING MY PERSONAL OPINION. ANYBODY WHO WOULD PAY $500 FOR A PROGRAM AND THEN A DOWNLOAD FROM THE WAREHOUSE IS AN ABSOLUTE IDIOT.

[ranchwest]

Mike,

Turn off your caps lock, please. On the internet, it indicates you are yelling. Or, are you?

[mike]

I DID NOT FOLLOW THOSE IDIOTIC INTERNET PROTOCOLS, I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO WITH MY TIME

[ranchwest]

I see, being a jerk takes precedence. Very well.

BTW, I'm very thankful for people like you. I know that those of us who successfully use computers will never have to worry about people like you making the same selections. It's really good news.

[mike]

IF YOUR DOING WELL IN THE BUSH LEAGUES STAY THERE.......

[anotherdave]

I make a little bit of money using a piece of software as an aid. I might not without it, but who knows. Some people make money using a pen and racing form. Some lose no matter what.

Let's not turn this into the yahoo board. I would prefer to talk about handicapping (or maybe another one of those excellent picks from cjmilkowski - maybe he's just resting on his laurels from the last two!)

[smf]

mike,

I have very limited knowledge of any and all of these "programs", but I do know that HSH and HTR aren't black box programs. The success/ failure all depends on the operator. What Barry Meadow can or cannot do with them is of no signifigance to anyone else.

If Meadow (or anyone else) can't make a "program" profitable for him, then he s/ stick to whatever the he&& works for him. I've followed that logic myself. Works for me, it'll work for him.

FYI, there are 2 TEXAS boys at the punt, pass & kick contest (aka NTRA tourney) that wouldn't know the ass end of a horse if their heads were buried in the said orafice. Doesn't seem to bother them, as they seem to be doing just fine using HTR. Good thing no "expert" was there to hover over their shoulder to tell them they were using something that won't break even when they chose HTR!

Must be somethin' to it, eh mike? They seem to make that "program" 'git along jest fine and dandy'.

Happy trails!

[Bruddah]

I respect your opinion to be different from mine and several others on this board. I am an old time handicapper by age and training. I have however, felt it necessary to use computers because they do organize information better and quicker than I ever could. Public handicapping programs have been around only 20 years or so. As the hardware and the learning curve of processing information improved, so have the programs. The Wright Bros built a machine incapable of space flight. However, the machine they built led to space flight years later. The same will happen one day with handicapping programs. I don't think they will ever pick the winner more than 45% of the time, which is still less than half. Why. too many uncontrolled variables in the actual race and faulty data.

The program I presently use is a quantum leap over many being sold today and certainly those of a few years ago. Yet, it is still in it's infancy. The young man who developed it has built it out of a love for horse racing and an inner commitment to provide the very best product available. This seems to be a core motivation for the majority of the people attempting to find the "Rosetta Stone" of handicapping. I haven't heard of any of these guys getting rich, by any measure or standard. In fact most risk time and finances, which could be better used in their personal lives. Heck, if they make some money along the way, that's American Capitalism. I am the one who makes the decision on whether to purchase or not.

Bruddah

[karlskorner]

Mike;

I have to agree with some of the members of the Board who are stating if you haven't tried it, don't knock it. For the past 20 years I have seen the "computer people" come and go, first they came with their "printouts", than the laptop group arrived (one guy even had a camcorder), they are a very mysterious and secretive group, all I am quite sure, believed that this was IT.
Some even quit their jobs. Those that didn't have printouts were using the Trackmaster hand held. They are all gone. New ones are replacing them though.

Dick Schmidt even states that he made $500,000. in the past 16 years (which in my "old math" is approx. $100,000. a year, ain't bad) yet he would rather sell real estate today. If the users of "programs and systems" feel comfortable with what they are using, let them be. As several posters admitted without their computers there is no way they would turn a dollar at the track. They need all the help they can lay their hands on.

It dawned on me several months back that the "majority" of posters on this board are gainfully employed elsewhere and knowning come Friday there will be a paycheck waiting for them, they can make all sort of wild suggestions and tout various systems and programs they have purchased, some which even turn a small profit. It amazes me that some admit they have purchased several if not dozens of programs over the years, looking for that 'black box". There is no doubt in my mind that without the "security" of the weekly paycheck they would "freeze" prior to making their first wager.

As long as the providers of programs and systems are financially happy and the users enjoy pushing all those button, I repeat, let them be.

Karl

[Slider]

Originally posted by FortuneHunter
Information organization is critical. It is what computers / computer programs are good for. Take a look at the thread "Beyer on Formulator Pro" on general discussion board.

In today's age of simulcasting and wagering oppertunities everyday, a program that can present the information you want, organized the way you want, and save you hours a day in handicapping time is very valuable.

I went back and read the initial post and did not see any hype.

A important point that was not brought out is the monthly charge for data by HDW at around $125 a month. Thats about $1500 a year. Granted, you get all the all tracks everyday, and if you want all tracks everyday, it is a the best price around.

However, if you have a life outside of horse playing, then HDW's deal isn't so hot. It's January, you want to catch up on projects in your woodshop, projects due at work, kids are playing basketball for sectional championship, ski weekends, your getting married, etc. etc.. You get a chance to sit down and handicap a few races a week, catch as catch can, maybe. Yet you have to pay $125 a month for data you won't use. I think it makes people feel obligated to spend time and play horses and when you lose it feels worse than if your playing of your own free will..

Fortune Hunter,
Your post is not completly accurate. HSH uses two data sources. One is HDW as you posted. The other is ITS that sells daily cards. The ITS charge ranges from $1.50 to $1.00 per track depending upon your monthly usage. ITS is best for the sometimes player while HDW is for the player who is building up a database.

I will miss Baravot over at the HSH messge board. He was a sharing user. However life goes on and I understand his position.

[Jake]

Mike,

I haven’t posted in ages here, so thanks for shaking me out of my hibernation.

Sorry, Mike, but I didn’t see where Baravot was trying to hype the efficacy of the software. Was there another post somewhere? He sounded pretty straight forward to me. I do know that this summer Baravot was kind enough to keep me current on what he was betting, and after a several month-long run he was showing a very nice ROI and a win rate Diogenes would be tempted to trade his lantern in for. Of course, Baravot wasn’t interested in sharing his particular method with me, nor did I bother to ask, but I guarantee it was using the software you claim can’t work. So, why is he selling the software? That’s his business, but I don’t believe it has anything to do with the program itself.

A number of software programs have been discussed here in the past year. HTR, Equisim, Synergism, HSH…some private or semi-private programs like Que’s, as well as PA’s own program….And they have all demostrated the ability to increase a player’s handicapping proficiency. Is everyone on this board being dishonest about this? If that’s what you really believe, why even post here….

With respect, if you can get the win rate you want without software, hey all the power in the world to you. There are a few guys on this board who can do that with some consistency. But if not, then I say Ranchwest has your number. And, in that case, we're both hoping you’re a two-fisted bettor.

[ranchwest]

>Let's not turn this into the yahoo board. I would prefer to talk about handicapping <

Point taken. There's a lot of good, friendly people here who have a lot of good information to share. <getting back to business... now, where's that download icon?>

[Handle]

Mike, you're really missing the point. Or you are just a sorry antagonist....

Do you blame the hammer if you can't pound a nail straight? Handicapping software is a tool - nothing more nothing less. I know little about HSH, but I don't think it is touted as a genii in a bottle.

I can imagine the temper tantrum you must have thrown when when you found out that Santa Claus is make believe.

-Handle

[canuck]

Hey Mikey

I think what you are saying is totally misguided,false,bitter and pathetic.

I urge you to come over to the toon board-http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/horseplayersunited


Nobody will care over there that you cant make a nickel on the ponies--just trashing and cashing!!

A few of them good ole boys from Texas may have something to say to you,tho....

[mike]

i think that karl's thoughts best reflect my point. my honest comments certainly have kicked up a hornet's nest.

my reason for posting is that i have seen for years someone gets lucky with this or that program then winds up bust!

i just want to prevent some new sucker from spending hundreds of dollars on stuff that doesn't work.

i think it is a disgrace for someone to charge for a program and then collect thru the warehouse. if anything the program should be given away for free. that in my opinion is a rip-off.

i pay very little for anything, i have books and software that i have traded for the most part, i have found that most people will gladly sell the stuff for a fraction of the cost after they have used it for a while.

this goes back to my original point that it wouldn't be sold if it worked! i find that most every program has one thing it is good at and occasionally helps.

sorry to get everyone's blood pressure arising.

[ranchwest]

Mike,

First off, thanks for your last post. You've done a good job of expressing concerns.

Software, books, methods, it's all a bunch of junk unless you can make use of it and are willing to get into the swing of things. In reading some of the comments on books that have been posted here, I've found it interesting that some of the books that I thought were mostly fluff were highly regarded by some. Some of the books I've thought were great seem to draw little attention.

It is the same with software. Some people will find some things great while others will think the same product is junk. I think software programs got a black eye years ago when all that could be programmed was a few key numbers. Anyone who has been in this game long knows that there are thousands of factors in a race and handicapping is the ability to piece those many factors together. Using just a few key pieces of data is always going to be inconsistent. As computers have advanced, it has become possible to provide more thorough evaluations of data, thereby making it POSSIBLE to have programs that provide much better results.

As for selling both the program and the data, my viewpoint is that if the buyer understands that fully going in and decides to go ahead with it, then I don't have a problem with it.

Again, thanks for your post.

[Lefty]

Karl, recheck your "old" math. 500,000 over 16 yrs is just a little over 38,000 per yr.with my "old" math. Don't meant to bust you just having some fun. Hey, the "new math" is even worse.

[Myhorse1_X]

Hello Jake:

Long time no hear!. My program is being tested by Phillips Newsletter as we speak. The results should be out by the Feb. edition.
Never did get that Data Base, but am still trying.

MyHorse1(Bob E)

[anotherdave]

Originally posted by Lefty
Karl, recheck your "old" math. 500,000 over 16 yrs is just a little over 38,000 per yr.with my "old" math. Don't meant to bust you just having some fun. Hey, the "new math" is even worse.

Actually 500000/16 =31250. Either way, I'd be happy!

[FortuneHunter]

Slider, I didn't know HSH used ITS files also. Thanks for the correction.

[karlskorner]

Lefty and Anotherdave

Ooops. Sorry about the math mistake.

Seems I was using the ENRON/ANDERSON method of accounting.

Dick Schmidt is probably wondering where the hell all the money went.

Karl

[Myhorse1_X]

Jake:

Nice to hear from you. I don't have your e-mail address. Leave it at Keyto31@aol.com.

Bob E.

[mike]

hard to believe that my comments caused over 31 replies and over 900 views. you people have too much time on your hands.

why not volunteer to help someone or spend some time handicapping. no wonder 90% of the people are losers!

[Dick Schmidt]

Mike,

Just can't stand prosperity, can you. Just when people thought you might be just opinionated instead of a jerk, you have to put your foot in it and insult the whole board again.

As for spending too much time online, who has posted to this thread more than you? Concerning winners and losers, it is more like 98% long term losers. So how are you doing?

Give my regards to the boys over on Yahoo.

Dick

P.S. In the English language, we have certain conventions, such as a capital letter at the start of a sentence. I understand that you are way too far above the crowd to bother with such things, but it does make for easier comprehension for those of us who lack your intellect and insight. After all, who else can review a computer program without having seen it?

[Myhorse1_X]

Ditto! Ditto! to your comments Dick:

"Those who have harsh words for another are sometimes speaking to themselves"

MyHorse1

[mike]

to: dick schmidt

you call yourself surly, but to me, it seems like you are mighty old and cranky.

you just can't stand other people's opinions, i guess the relics of fascism are still around.

you are probably one of those gamblers that have blown their bankroll on these computer programs and now has to work instead of retiring.

i must be on target because i'm attracting the heaviest fire.

[Bruddah]

OK fellas let's just leave it. A difference of opinions isn't worth all this rankor and hostility. Their is enough patience and open mindedness(sp?) on this board to weather this dis agreement. We need to get on with finding the "Rosetta Stone" for handicapping. It doesn't matter if it is found with pen and paper or with a computer program.

Bruddah

[anotherdave]

So who is going to win the superbowl?

[Dick Schmidt]

AD,

The Rams, in a walk. I still bleed blue and gold even though they abandoned me (oh, and the rest of SoCal) some years ago. Anyway, if Warner is on target, they are unstoppable.

GO RAMS!!!!!

Dick

[Lefty]

anotherdave, I strongly suspect that you cheated and used one of those "newfangled" calculator thingys.

[anotherdave]

Originally posted by Lefty
anotherdave, I strongly suspect that you cheated and used one of those "newfangled" calculator thingys.

Sadly no. I did it in my head. I'm a statistician. Let the jokes begin.

(After the recent news events, at least I'm not an accountant.)

[FortuneHunter]

Those Eagles play a tough brand of ball. Maybe Kurt will leave early??

[Rexdale You]

Hey MIKE,,,,What did you do before the IDIOTIC INTERNET came along,,,,Let me guess.I bet you did not put a stamp on you postcards,,,, Rex You,,,, :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

A hearty thank you to Bruddah for getting us all in the right direction again!!! LOL

:D


==PA

[NoDayJob]

Originally posted by mike
BARRY MEADOWS HAS TESTED HUNDREDS OF COMMERCIAL PROGRAMS NOT ONE HAS GOTTEN TO BREAK-EVEN!

MOST OF THE PEOPLE BRAGGING ON THIS OR THAT PROGRAM ARE SHILLS.

MY DAD TOLD ME WHEN I WAS 12 YEARS OLD TO BEWARE OF RACE TRACK TOUTS. NO ONE WOULD SELL A PROGRAM THAT MAKES MONEY, THEY WOULD DO IT THEMSELVES.

IF YOU HAVE MADE MONEY GOD BLESS YOU.

I AM JUST EXPRESSING MY PERSONAL OPINION. ANYBODY WHO WOULD PAY $500 FOR A PROGRAM AND THEN A DOWNLOAD FROM THE WAREHOUSE IS AN ABSOLUTE IDIOT.

**************************************************

The operative word is "IDIOT"! Well said! -NDJ

[Myhorse1_X]

Barry Meadows did test a bunch of software handicapping programs.
The reason most barely break even is that he tested ALL races, including Maidens and Turf races, a lot of which had first time starters. Most handicappers avoid maiden races with 4-5 first time starters. He used the top pick and the top 2 picks regardless of the type race. This is a tough standard for win percentage and ROI.

There are a lot of shills when it comes to Handicapping Software. I guess they feel that there are a bunch of suckers out there. This message board and other message boards at least sort out a few of these shills that make their living selling worthless software. It makes it tough for someone that really tries to program some software that works. These individuals have to charge a reasonable fee for their software in order to bring their product to market while the shills sell their software for next to nothing.

Keep the information coming from software users and try to use standard guidelines for what is a reasonable win percentage and ROI. I read different things about the same software so evidently the opinions of the software differs with the user.

I didn't mean this post to be so long, but I hope everyone understands where I am coming from. Keep the information coming!

MyHorse1

[wally2001]

I think the main problem is that the cost of the daily updates is far too much, with between 5 and 10 meets a day at $1.00 to $1.50 for each track is far too much.

If the software is used to help handicap a race then it needs to be cheap.

Does anyone on here evaluate software?

If so I have some that needs evaluating?

I am trying to provide a piece of software which is free and the daily updates very cheap for all tracks.

I have provided it in the UK for 3 years now and have just got the US data together.

I would be interested in any feedback on the software?

Cheers
Simon
http://www.proformracing.com

[hurrikane]

I'm not sure what the big deal is about computers. If you buy the DRF you are buying information. You pay $5 a day for that information to be on a printed piece of paper. That would come to $150 a month.

If I buy information in a digital format for $119 a month who is being stupid? I think it is just a matter of preference. I have the same informtion...past performances, running lines, velocities, speed figs, times, trainer stats..all the same info you would use to make your selection I use to make my selections. Because I choose to carry that information around on a computer doesn't make me stupid or a loser. In fact..I could buy the DRF on line..take my computer to the track..sit beside Mike who would be reading the DRF and calling me a stupid loser for having a computer...although we are looking at exactly the same info.
Just mine is on a computer.

It is exactly this type of thinking that creates situations like 9/11. Closed minded..you have to live my way..stupid attitudes.

by the way...if you wanted to look at the 3rd race at AQU ran on Jan 1, 2001 how long would it take for you to dig through the closet of racing forms to find the info. Takes me about 5 minutes.

[Lefty]

If you want to look at all the tracks then you need about 3 diff. editions of the DRF, now we're talking about $15 a day. If you want or need to look at all the trks then $119 or $129 or $135 a mo to put into a computer prgm not so bad.

[BillW]

I think you guys just discovered why TV marketers sell things for 5 payments of $19.95 instead of $99.95 to the Jerry Springer set. :D

$4.50 a day doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as $90/Mo. for 20 days of the form until one thinks about it.


Bill W.

[wally2001]

You can get all tracks for $3.95 per day with all the form of previous runs + speed ratings + pace ratings + trainer and jockey stats + weight comparisons etc etc

I believe DRF and thier like are way over charging for more data than most users need.

Anyway give us a try, there is a free demo to try out too and I will give a free days trial to anyone quoting ref: PACEPRO

We cover 10 tracks at present and will be adding all the rest very soon.

The data does not need to be downloaded from one of the main sites it is all part of the price.

Cheers
Simon
http://www.proformracing.com