Haskin says Bid greatest over entire career!!

[Kash$]

The Bid: Sustained Greatness (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/96317/the-bid-sustained-greatness?source=rss)

And I agree 100%



Spectacular Bid won at 15 different racetracks in nine different states, and carried 130 pounds or more to victory five times. To demonstrate his dominance, and the respect the public had for him, he was sent off at odds of 1-20, that's 1-20, an unheard of eight times, and 1-10 six times. Beginning with the World's Playground, he won 24 of 26 starts, rattling off 12-race and 10-race winning streaks, while facing such classy grade I winners as Flying Paster, General Assembly, Coastal, Glorious Song, Cox's Ridge, and Golden Act, as well as Relaunch and Smarten. His only two defeats came at 1 1/2 miles, when he stepped on a safety pin the morning of the Belmont, almost losing his foot after a bad infection set in, and in the Jockey Club Gold Cup, when he was beaten by the older horse, Hall of Famer Affirmed, after being forced to miss his prep in the Woodward Stakes due to a virus. In all, he won 26 of his 30 career starts. In both his defeats early in his career, he had troubled trips. - See more at: http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2015/12/01/the-bid-sustained-greatness.aspx#sthash.DGZ05tms.dpuf

[biggestal99]

The Bid: Sustained Greatness (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/96317/the-bid-sustained-greatness?source=rss)

And I agree 100%



Spectacular Bid won at 15 different racetracks in nine different states, and carried 130 pounds or more to victory five times. To demonstrate his dominance, and the respect the public had for him, he was sent off at odds of 1-20, that's 1-20, an unheard of eight times, and 1-10 six times. Beginning with the World's Playground, he won 24 of 26 starts, rattling off 12-race and 10-race winning streaks, while facing such classy grade I winners as Flying Paster, General Assembly, Coastal, Glorious Song, Cox's Ridge, and Golden Act, as well as Relaunch and Smarten. His only two defeats came at 1 1/2 miles, when he stepped on a safety pin the morning of the Belmont, almost losing his foot after a bad infection set in, and in the Jockey Club Gold Cup, when he was beaten by the older horse, Hall of Famer Affirmed, after being forced to miss his prep in the Woodward Stakes due to a virus. In all, he won 26 of his 30 career starts. In both his defeats early in his career, he had troubled trips. - See more at: http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2015/12/01/the-bid-sustained-greatness.aspx#sthash.DGZ05tms.dpuf

He was beaten by a friend of mine horse at Monmouth, GREAT BOONE. :-)

Allan

[biggestal99]

He was beaten by a friend of mine horse at Monmouth, GREAT BOONE. :-)

Allan

and yes, bid easily one of the best ever.

Allan

[magwell]

In my time being around race horses and watching the really good ones run "The Bid" was the best, I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.....:cool:

[maddog42]

He broke 7 track records and equaled another.

[dilanesp]

Spectacular Bid is the best horse I ever saw run, and it is not even close. (I saw him run the 1:57 4/5 mile and a quarter at Santa Anita, among other things.)

And this is coming from someone who saw Seattle Slew, Affirmed, John Henry, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Cigar, Skip Away, and Zenyatta.

I think he's the best ever, in terms of his career. But there are competitors for that honor.

[delayjf]

Flying Paster, General Assembly, Coastal, Glorious Song, Cox's Ridge, and Golden Act, as well as Relaunch and Smarten.

I'm not that impressed with the above group. Affirmed beat him fair and square. IMO, Alysheba raced against a much more formidable group of horses than the Bid. So did Seattle Slew, and Secretariat.

he had troubled trips.
There was nothing wrong with the Bids trip against Affirmed.

[classhandicapper]

IMO, Bid is on the extremely short list of the best horses I ever saw. I think the only way you could beat him when he was on his "A" game was if another great horse had more speed, outran him early, and kept going. There have been other great horses with more speed that could probably take him on the right track, at shorter distances, or with a controlling pace. But he would take them on other tracks or when they were put under pressure and he sat off them.

[RXB]

I'm not that impressed with the above group. Affirmed beat him fair and square. IMO, Alysheba raced against a much more formidable group of horses than the Bid. So did Seattle Slew, and Secretariat.

There was nothing wrong with the Bids trip against Affirmed.

4YO Affirmed beat 3YO Bid by less than a length. As a 4YO, Spectacular Bid was faster.

[biggestal99]

Ridden by below average jock, the first part of his career.

Allan

[Stillriledup]

This was an incredible performance to be rushed up like that and then easily hold off a flying challenger who made one move.

Y_-Q_mlMGOM

[chadk66]

Pretty impressive race

[RXB]

Flying Paster and General Assembly each won three G1 races; Flying Paster won several other graded stakes, finished his career 27/13-7-2 and earned over $1 million at a time when that was still a noteworthy accomplishment. Between the two of them they took 13 shots against Spectacular Bid and the race linked above was the only time that either of them was closer than 2 3/4 lengths at the finish.

[delayjf]

4YO Affirmed beat 3YO Bid by less than a length. As a 4YO, Spectacular Bid was faster.

True, but when he set the world record for 1 1/4, Flying Pastor was only 3 lengths back. SA was known for its fast tracks.

[RXB]

True, but when he set the world record for 1 1/4, Flying Pastor was only 3 lengths back. SA was known for its fast tracks.

I'm referring to figures by guys who adjusted for track speed, all of whom seem to agree that Spectacular Bid ran faster adjusted times than Affirmed.

Away from Spectacular Bid, Flying Paster won 13 of 20 races. Except for the Malibu, Flying Paster finished far ahead of the others when he ran against Spectacular Bid that winter at Santa Anita. Not exactly a potted plant.

[Cratos]

The Bid: Sustained Greatness (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/96317/the-bid-sustained-greatness?source=rss)

And I agree 100%



Spectacular Bid won at 15 different racetracks in nine different states, and carried 130 pounds or more to victory five times. To demonstrate his dominance, and the respect the public had for him, he was sent off at odds of 1-20, that's 1-20, an unheard of eight times, and 1-10 six times. Beginning with the World's Playground, he won 24 of 26 starts, rattling off 12-race and 10-race winning streaks, while facing such classy grade I winners as Flying Paster, General Assembly, Coastal, Glorious Song, Cox's Ridge, and Golden Act, as well as Relaunch and Smarten. His only two defeats came at 1 1/2 miles, when he stepped on a safety pin the morning of the Belmont, almost losing his foot after a bad infection set in, and in the Jockey Club Gold Cup, when he was beaten by the older horse, Hall of Famer Affirmed, after being forced to miss his prep in the Woodward Stakes due to a virus. In all, he won 26 of his 30 career starts. In both his defeats early in his career, he had troubled trips. - See more at: http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2015/12/01/the-bid-sustained-greatness.aspx#sthash.DGZ05tms.dpuf

The Bid was a great horse, but during my tenure in watching and betting thoroughbred racehorses’ race I will take the following horses over the Bid:

Secretariat
Dr. Fager
American Pharoah
Seattle Slew
Zenyatta
Forego
Damascus
Affirmed

[Shemp Howard]

I'm not that impressed with the above group. Affirmed beat him fair and square. IMO, Alysheba raced against a much more formidable group of horses than the Bid. So did Seattle Slew, and Secretariat.


There was nothing wrong with the Bids trip against Affirmed.

General Assembly holds the track and Travers Stakes record for 1 1/4 at Saratoga Springs.

[PaceAdvantage]

The Bid was a great horse, but during my tenure in watching and betting thoroughbred racehorses’ race I will take the following horses over the Bid:

Secretariat
Dr. Fager
American Pharoah
Seattle Slew
Zenyatta
Forego
Damascus
AffirmedHave to take issue with a few of those on your list. Zenyatta? Really? Spectacular Bid was a MONSTER in an AGE OF MONSTERS.

Zenyatta was a big fish in a pretty small pond by comparison.

American Pharoah? We have no clue on that one...he COULD have been ANY KIND of MONSTER, but he retired too soon.

[PaceAdvantage]

This was an incredible performance to be rushed up like that and then easily hold off a flying challenger who made one move.

Y_-Q_mlMGOMSometimes we forget in this all too watered down age of racing (and this age seems to be going on for an eternity), just HOW GOOD some of these horses of yesteryear really were.

How many horses in the "modern" era do you know of that could have made such a HUGE move relatively early as The Bid did in the race above, and have enough left late to not only hold off, but KICK AWAY from a high quality closer?

And then there's always Seattle Slew's Jockey Club Gold Cup, the single greatest losing effort EVER recorded...no horse that has stepped on the racetrack in the last 25+ years since I've been watching this game could have run a race like that, even in defeat...

It's always good to look back and appreciate the true greats of this game.

[cj]

As Doug Salvatore likes to point out, Bid was undefeated from 7 furlongs to a mile and a quarter.

[ronsmac]

Sometimes we forget in this all too watered down age of racing (and this age seems to be going on for an eternity), just HOW GOOD some of these horses of yesteryear really were.

How many horses in the "modern" era do you know of that could have made such a HUGE move relatively early as The Bid did in the race above, and have enough left late to not only hold off, but KICK AWAY from a high quality closer?

And then there's always Seattle Slew's Jockey Club Gold Cup, the single greatest losing effort EVER recorded...no horse that has stepped on the racetrack in the last 25+ years since I've been watching this game could have run a race like that, even in defeat...

It's always good to look back and appreciate the true greats of this game.Seattle Slew's JCGC was great , but you do know Secretariat ran the Belmont in 224 right? My bad, you said last 25 years. Seattle Slew's flamingo and Derby were amazing too. Poor start in the Derby and insane fractions.

[Stillriledup]

Sometimes we forget in this all too watered down age of racing (and this age seems to be going on for an eternity), just HOW GOOD some of these horses of yesteryear really were.

How many horses in the "modern" era do you know of that could have made such a HUGE move relatively early as The Bid did in the race above, and have enough left late to not only hold off, but KICK AWAY from a high quality closer?

And then there's always Seattle Slew's Jockey Club Gold Cup, the single greatest losing effort EVER recorded...no horse that has stepped on the racetrack in the last 25+ years since I've been watching this game could have run a race like that, even in defeat...

It's always good to look back and appreciate the true greats of this game.

You're totally right about the forgetting part, it's been many years since I've watched a Bid replay so I watched this replay and when Flying Paster made that move I said to myself 'wow he must have lost this one' and then ended up winning so effortlessly I couldn't believe it.

To answer your question about who in the modern era could have made that move, not to mention an east coast horse vs a Top local horse, and not only lived to tell about it but kinda won for fun, there's nobody I can think of that could have been ridden like that and still won. There might be somebody, I'm just not sure who.

[ultracapper]

Love the Glen Hill Farm silks of Relaunch. Who was his trainer, a Tom Proctor family member?

[ultracapper]

Kind of a short field. You beat a field like that today and you get no credit.

[Cratos]

Have to take issue with a few of those on your list. Zenyatta? Really? Spectacular Bid was a MONSTER in an AGE OF MONSTERS.

Zenyatta was a big fish in a pretty small pond by comparison.

American Pharoah? We have no clue on that one...he COULD have been ANY KIND of MONSTER, but he retired too soon.
I understand your comments, but I believe Zenyatta is the greatest female horse that I have ever seen and I saw Shuvee, Personal Ensign, Ta Wee, Ruffian, All Along and several others, but none of them come close to Big Z who was victimized by over protective connections.

If they had shipped her East I believe you would be singing her praises.

I came to the American Pharoah party late and stayed. He is in my opinion the most tenacious horse since Affirmed and better.

American Pharoah is like good bourbon to me; I don't need to drink the whole bottle (sometimes I have thought about it) to know that it is very good.

[Stillriledup]

I understand your comments, but I believe Zenyatta is the greatest female horse that I have ever seen and I saw Shuvee, Personal Ensign, Ta Wee, Ruffian, All Along and several others, but none of them come close to Big Z who was victimized by over protective connections.

If they had shipped her East I believe you would be singing her praises.

I came to the American Pharoah party late and stayed. He is in my opinion the most tenacious horse since Affirmed and better.

American Pharoah is like good bourbon to me; I don't need to drink the whole bottle (sometimes I have thought about it) to know that it is very good.

The unfair thing for Z is that the conservative way she was managed irked some people and because those people were irked, they tried to downgrade Zs talent and accomplishments. Z is very polarizing which means that you love her or dislike her but either way, the passions get in the way. Whether she's overrated, lucky, beat tomato cans or what have you, no great horse has ever been criticized as much as Z.

Not only did she win 19 in a row, it took a male horse in the BC Classic to finally beat her.

[thaskalos]

When we say that we would take Zenyatta over Spectacular Bid...are we voicing the opinion that Zenyatta would actually beat the Bid in a race? Or do we mean something a little more "esoteric"?

[delayjf]

Spectacular Bid was a MONSTER in an AGE OF MONSTERS.
My problem is he didn't beat any monsters. He had the entire length of the Belmont stretch to get by Affirmed (who for some reason floated wide on the final turn and into the stretch) but the bid could not get by.

Not saying he was not a great horse - just disagree that he was the best ever.

[Kash$]

My problem is he didn't beat any monsters. He had the entire length of the Belmont stretch to get by Affirmed (who for some reason floated wide on the final turn and into the stretch) but the bid could not get by.

Not saying he was not a great horse - just disagree that he was the best ever.

I read a post on here..

The inside wasnt the place to be that day maybe the reason why Affirmed was floated wide into the stretch.

[thaskalos]

My problem is he didn't beat any monsters. He had the entire length of the Belmont stretch to get by Affirmed (who for some reason floated wide on the final turn and into the stretch) but the bid could not get by.

Not saying he was not a great horse - just disagree that he was the best ever.

How many "monsters" did SECRETARIAT beat?

[classhandicapper]

My problem is he didn't beat any monsters. He had the entire length of the Belmont stretch to get by Affirmed (who for some reason floated wide on the final turn and into the stretch) but the bid could not get by.

Not saying he was not a great horse - just disagree that he was the best ever.

Affirmed was floated wide partially to make life tougher on Bid, but also because the rail was not the place to be that day. Shoe probably made a mistake ducking in and trying to move inside of him.

Back in those days Belmont had a LOT of bad rail days that would stretch multiple paths. Front runners would routinely be taken out to the 4-5 path on days like that.

[classhandicapper]

When we say that we would take Zenyatta over Spectacular Bid...are we voicing the opinion that Zenyatta would actually beat the Bid in a race? Or do we mean something a little more "esoteric"?

Zenyatta's is on my extremely short list of greatest mares I have ever seen. I think she was even better than her biggest fans think because imo she was at her peak at 4 (not 5-6) and had her ability hidden by the slow paces and depressed speed figures common on those early synthetic tracks through much of her career (not to mention potentially shrinking Beyers in general).

All that said, imo there's almost no way she was better than Bid. No mare was better than Bid.

IMO you weren't going to beat Bid unless you were also a great horse and the race conditions favored you (or he had an off day). IMO, that's the way it generally is with those super incredible all time greats.

Can you really separate them on ability?

They would take turns beating each other depending on the surface, distance, track condition, the way the track was playing, the pace, the break etc...

[RXB]

Zenyatta's is on my extremely short list of greatest mares I have ever seen. I think she was even better than her biggest fans think because imo she was at her peak at 4 (not 5-6) and had her ability hidden by the slow paces and depressed speed figures common on those early synthetic tracks through much of her career (not to mention potentially shrinking Beyers in general).

All that said, imo there's almost no way she was better than Bid. No mare was better than Bid.

IMO you weren't going to beat Bid unless you were also a great horse and the race conditions favored you (or he had an off day). IMO, that's the way it generally is with those super incredible all time greats.

Can you really separate them on ability?

They would take turns beating each other depending on the surface, distance, track condition, the way the track was playing, the pace, the break etc...

They would not have been taking turns beating each other. Spectacular Bid was as great on the colt/gelding scale as Zenyatta was on the filly/mare scale-- i.e., he is open lengths superior.

[delayjf]

How many "monsters" did SECRETARIAT beat?

I would say that Riva Ridge was better than any horse the Bid beat. He missed winning the triple crown probable due to the off track in the Preakness. I would also say that Sham was better than any horse the Bid ran against in the Triple Crown.

[delayjf]

Affirmed was floated wide partially to make life tougher on Bid, but also because the rail was not the place to be that day. Shoe probably made a mistake ducking in and trying to move inside of him.

Having just watched the race, the bid came into the stretch in about the 3 path, so he was never on the rail - not sure how the 3 path faired as far as the bias was concerned.. He raced outside of Affirmed down the backstretch.

[delayjf]

General Assembly holds the track and Travers Stakes record for 1 1/4 at Saratoga Springs.

True - but that was on a wet track and he never repeated that performance again. He did run big that day.

[classhandicapper]

Having just watched the race, the bid came into the stretch in about the 3 path, so he was never on the rail - not sure how the 3 path faired as far as the bias was concerned.. He raced outside of Affirmed down the backstretch.

I was there that day and recall thinking the rail was off and that Shoe should have stayed outside of him even though he was being floated. Belmont was crazy back in those days. They weren't just bad rails. It would be bad for multiple paths. It was a long time ago though and my memory isn't sharp enough to recall the entire day. I still have the original DRF at home. If I had the charts I'd be able to look it up, but I'm pretty sure I didn't save the charts. :bang:

[delayjf]

Something else I noticed about that race - Affirmed was on the wrong lead the entire stretch.

[PaceAdvantage]

My problem is he didn't beat any monsters. He had the entire length of the Belmont stretch to get by Affirmed (who for some reason floated wide on the final turn and into the stretch) but the bid could not get by.

Not saying he was not a great horse - just disagree that he was the best ever.Bid did have his problems at the mile and a half distance, didn't he? That loss to Affirmed was at 12 panels...and we all know what distance the Belmont Stakes was run at...

Two of his four career losses were at the mile and a half distance.

[Stillriledup]

Something else I noticed about that race - Affirmed was on the wrong lead the entire stretch.

Alydar was the one who didnt switch leads.

[clocker7]

To me, Seattle Slew as a 2 yo and Spectacular Bid as an older colt possessed the most brilliant leg action that I have ever seen. They reeked speed.

Imo, Slew never had a chance as an older colt to display his full capabilities, given that he was intentionally groomed to peak for a Triple Crown run, rather than just the Kentucky Derby itself like most modern guys. Throw in the context of how those TC races of his materialized, the full effect of his talent never was displayed. And, in his 4 yo season, I doubt that he was ever at perfection when it came to condition. (Neither was Affirmed, when both met twice, I might add.)

I thought that SB had more opportunities to shine, and did so marvelously. But I still have doubts about his stature among the greats when going over 10f.

Secretariat to me is the greatest enigma. Sure, he thrived on firm strips that helped to produce spectacular clockings. But he floundered during some of his losses on less than ideal conditions. And his handling after the Triple Crown left a lot to be desired. Dodging the JCGC and the DC International leaves question marks in my mind. Yet, contemporary trainers considered him to be superior to anything else. And, lacking a 4 yo campaign, there is a huge gap in a resume that might have surpassed that of SB's, in terms of dominance.

Needless to say, that brilliant trio possessed a combination of lethal speed AND endurance that is lacking in modern animals, I'm not ashamed to say.

[ronsmac]

Bid did have his problems at the mile and a half distance, didn't he? That loss to Affirmed was at 12 panels...and we all know what distance the Belmont Stakes was run at...

Two of his four career losses were at the mile and a half distance.
A lot of people would say Dundalk's Ronnie Franklin got the Bid beat in the Belmont by squeezing the trigger way too early, or the mysterious "safety pin" Franklin probably shouldn't have been riding a horse of that caliber in the first place, though it was a great story here locally. He was almost kicked off the horse before the TC. In the JCGC he turned the tables on Coastal but just ran into a better horse at that time in Affirmed. Imo the distance wasn't a factor.

[delayjf]

Alydar was the one who didnt switch leads.
I recall that about Alydar, but I was referring to the stretch run of Affirmed's race against the Bid.