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View Full Version : NY's Lowered Takeout


Figman
01-23-2002, 08:22 PM
Here are the figures through the first 16 days of 2002 and 2001 for Aqueduct. These figures were taken from each day's Equibase charts. These figures include all handle that is commingled (so Canadian handle on Aqueduct is NOT included). In 2002 there were 144 races while in 2001 there were 146. Total handle is the sum of On-Track, ITW & ISW.

2002 - $128,254,380
2001 - $116,281,346
Is it the lowered takeout that caused the increase?

Here's Gulfstream Parks figures over their first 16 days with 186 races contested in 2001 AND 2002.

2002 - $130,249,498
2001 - $151,152,564
What's GP doing wrong?

karlskorner
01-23-2002, 08:55 PM
Figman;

GP is suffering from short fields and fewer races due to the fact that CRC during Dec. ran extra races each day and weekends

Since most of the mediocre races at GP are filled by CRC horses, most of the trainers were not anxious to enter their charges in so short a period of time. Another week or so and it will turn around and the handle will be up. You forgot to mention that attendance is up over last year.

Karl

andicap
01-23-2002, 09:11 PM
Didn't GP take its signal away from some simulcast places or online places like America TAB?

The Magna gang at work.

GR1@HTR
01-23-2002, 09:25 PM
I know that just because of the take out, the majority of my money has gone to AQU vs GP. Only fustrating thing about AQU is the weather. Me no like wet track.

karlskorner
01-23-2002, 09:40 PM
Andicap;

Mr. Frank Stronch (Magna Corp) is one powerful businessman.
His plans for GP is to rip the entire plant down and replace it with huge simulcasting facilities and entertainment stages in which live horse racing will be a small part of the entire project with seating for about 3000. (There goes the Breeders Cup)

He is now preparing to go before Fla. lawmakers and request simulcasting of CRC ( which is only 12 miles away ) while it will have the majority of the racing season, it will loose many of it's customers as the majority of the population is on the coast area and GP will be easier to get to.

Between Churchill Downs (who owns CRC) and Magna Corp. they shut down Hialeah in one grand swoop. Now the battle is for who is the King of the hill.

Karl

Observer
01-23-2002, 09:57 PM
The problem of small fields at Gulfstream is because of the lack of stall space. Though Hialeah wasn't going to race this year, there were attempts to open as a training facility so horsemen would have a place to stable their horses. That, however, didn't happen, and there is a severe lack of stall space. Many trainers have shipped their horses out to Fair Grounds.

Figman
01-23-2002, 10:13 PM
Karlskorner
I listed 2002 GP races contested against 2001 races.............
THEY WERE THE SAME through Martin Luther King Day!

I didn't mention the attendance at GP because I couldn't calculate the music concert attendees included that were bettors.

Figman
02-01-2002, 10:24 PM
Today Gulfstream Park had the dubious distinction of going past the $30 million mark in lost handle as compared to the 2001 figures. This has happened over just 26 race days. There have been a total of 7 fewer races in 2002 thus far. The average handle per race last year was $838,500 while this year it is $740,100. How low will they go??? and when will other tracks realize that they must emulate Keeneland and NYRA in lowering their takeout???

Figman
02-19-2002, 02:09 PM
NY's lowered takeout continues to impress especially when compared to:
1. Gulfstream Park's 2002 handle
2. The change in NY Racing Law allowing three(as of Jan 15th) rather than two competing thoroughbred simulcasts throughout New York State against Aqueduct
3. California no longer being allowed to bet into NY pools.

Thru Presidents Day 2002 there have been 324 races at the Big A and the handle has totaled $292 million (vs. 336 races and $278 million in 2001).
Average handle per race in 2002 is $873,014 in Jan and $948,305 in February.
Average handle per race in 2001 was $804,636 in Jan and $827,418 in February.
The reduced takeout, especially from 20% to 17.5% in the multiple pools, has proven significant!

Gulfstream Park has been a "handle horror show" in 2002.
Through Presidents Day this year and 2001 the comparisons are:
2002 - 419 races - $323.8 million in comingled handle.
2001 - 437 races - $388.4 million in comingled handle.
Even worse is that these numbers are trending downward. The average handle per race in Jan 2001 was $838,000 and in January 2002 dipped to $740,000. Even worse was February 2002 average per race handle of $822,000 (vs. $961,000 in Feb of 2001). What a shame!!

charleslanger
02-19-2002, 02:19 PM
purses going up, up at FG & OP--so GP's not the only game in town anymore. Top stables that once sent pretty much all their top stock to GP are now splitting up and sending strings to the other aforementioned two tracks.

smf
02-19-2002, 05:31 PM
charleslanger,

Last month FG cut their purses by 10%, across the board.

Hia not stabling horse also caused a shortage of runners for GP. There's supposed to be a "fix" to that problem next year, I read. GP's lower handle for 2002 looks like a one year problem.

so.cal.fan
02-19-2002, 09:28 PM
Figman:
I wish all the people who own racetracks would read your comments!
Why do we "get it" and they don't?????

Tom
02-19-2002, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by so.cal.fan
Figman:
I wish all the people who own racetracks would read your comments!
Why do we "get it" and they don't?????

Petty little greed-morons never live for the long run-they exist only in the short run. This is because incompetent people are never around for the long run-they rape whatever business they are in quicly and then move on to ruin a new venue. Read:Enron.
Racing is full of incompetent, stupid people who get their money not because of their performance but in spite of it. Read: Franky.

Tom

linrom1
02-19-2002, 10:15 PM
Lower take out is not the "cure all" as many here would want us to believe. Racing is a SPORT after all, which does require some sort of competition at an appropriate level. Without competition, the exhibition of horse racing becomes a meaningless event, having only value to jockeys, owners and trainers. Cheap racing that is so prevalent at GP is neither a sport, nor of interest to the public. Lack of interest directly correlates to lower handle. This is a simple concept, yet track management insists on fielding racecards full of cheap claiming races.

charleslanger
02-20-2002, 02:55 AM
smf,
i thought the purse cuts only applied to fall meet, i stand corrected. will purses go back up with slots, or are they not approved for them?

smf
02-20-2002, 03:32 AM
It's my understanding that FG w/ get slots next season, perhaps... www.nola.com's racing board has had some discussions on this. Remember, there are Casinos in place in NOLA so the "boost" from slots at the track m/b minimal. The track doesn't draw in a lot of folks there--- too much to do in NOLA.

FG already has a net/ phone bet operation, an OTB system and still had to cut purses. As much as I wish that we (FG) c/ swipe some of GP's horses for the long haul, I don't see it happening. Cramped stall space, a damp environment, etc has turned off a few trainers on the FG experience.

The track surface is 2nd to none, tho. It's a great bettors track for certain as well.

charleslanger
02-20-2002, 02:57 PM
they gave it a valiant try with phone/net bet, but with the simulcasting mess and its exclusive contracts, they can't offer all the signals they want & actually lost a couple of them?
What a disgusting situation in our country as compared to overseas: where you can bet any of our tracks, sport & casino games, elections, etc. and get rebates on top of that, without any legal consequences.