Is it on purpose?

[cj]

This horrible NFL officiating has to be staged like WWE, right?

[TiznowfaninNY]

The last 2 minutes were pretty brutal tonight.

[Rookies]

They get about 200 large now,I believe.

And they have never been worse! :mad: :ThmbDown:

[ReplayRandall]

This horrible NFL officiating has to be staged like WWE, right?

Right now, I'm a cushy 10-0 Carolina Panthers follower, but we were given a real gift in the 'Skins game. Score tied 14-all, Newton throws pass to Olsen at the 50, 'Skins defender Culliver puts a nice shoulder hit on Olsen, ball pops out, Culliver grabbing the ball in mid-air and goes the other way for TD.....Wait a minute, there's a flag......you watch and tell me if it's staged:

https://twitter.com/ChadwikoRCC/status/668504215547834368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[Stillriledup]

http://www.thefixisin.net/nfl2015.html

[Tom]

I was flipping back and forth between NFL and WWE.
No doubt, WWE was far better officiating! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe the refs should be made to wear the clown uniforms on Thursdays.....and they can all show up in the same little car.

[MutuelClerk]

Between the lawsuits off the field. All the reviews on the field. If it wasn't for gambling football would be behind hockey as the fourth major sport. It's become impossible to watch.

[tucker6]

I don't see the officiating as worse than other years. Only difference is that there are several channels needing fill the airwaves 24/7 with something. I remember playoff games being decided by flagrantly bad calls. Pittsburgh-Houston comes to mind. I guess as you get older, one takes the long view of things.

[Stillriledup]

Between the lawsuits off the field. All the reviews on the field. If it wasn't for gambling football would be behind hockey as the fourth major sport. It's become impossible to watch.

When I decided in the past to watch an nfl game, I had no problem watching start to finish. Now, I can barely stand watching a full half. Last nights game was a good example, the old me would have watched the entire game, now my mindset is to flip the game on in the 3rd quarter to see if the underdog is putting up a fight or just rolling over.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Anyone who thinks all NFL games are on the up-and-up ain't paying attention. With all the money at stake, corruption is not just a possibility, it's inevitable.

Follow the money. Plenty of refs, QBs and kickers living high on the hog in retirement.

A prime example is queued up for Thursday's game in Dallas. It won't be an upset to me, as the home team rocks the Panthers.

[Show Me the Wire]

This horrible NFL officiating has to be staged like WWE, right?

Extra incentive to establish full time officials, provided by the officials themselves.

[thaskalos]

Anyone who thinks all NFL games are on the up-and-up ain't paying attention. With all the money at stake, corruption is not just a possibility, it's inevitable.

Follow the money. Plenty of refs, QBs and kickers living high on the hog in retirement.

A prime example is queued up for Thursday's game in Dallas. It won't be an upset to me, as the home team rocks the Panthers.

If Dallas beats the Panthers...then I'll have a hard time paying my rent.

[tucker6]

If Dallas beats the Panthers...then I'll have a hard time paying my rent.
I think Dallas is a lock in that game. Hope I am wrong for your sake.

Going back to the Rousey fight, when someone starts getting touted as the next coming of Christ when they are not, you get "surprises" like the Dallas game. Cam Newton was touted on TV today as having remade Charlotte in his image for crying out loud. He is being compared to Tom Brady as an MVP candidate even though he is the 17th ranked QB in the NFL. His stats are mediocre at best. When I start to see that sort of poop being dished out, I run the other way. It rarely fails to pay off.

There Gus, I gave you my thoughts before the event this time. Happy? :D

[thaskalos]

I think Dallas is a lock in that game. Hope I am wrong for your sake.

Going back to the Rousey fight, when someone starts getting touted as the next coming of Christ when they are not, you get "surprises" like the Dallas game. Cam Newton was touted on TV today as having remade Charlotte in his image for crying out loud. He is being compared to Tom Brady as an MVP candidate even though he is the 17th ranked QB in the NFL. His stats are mediocre at best. When I start to see that sort of poop being dished out, I run the other way. It rarely fails to pay off.

There Gus, I gave you my thoughts before the event this time. Happy? :D
Tucker...you are my friend, and I greatly respect your opinion. I must point out though that my selection in this case has nothing to do with the glorious publicity that Cam Newton is currently receiving.

I have dabbled in sports betting for many years...and have traveled down many blind alleys as an inevitable part of my "education". I have now come to a point where I can create what I consider to be a reliable betting line for every NFL, MLB and NBA game out there. I compare my line to the Vegas line...and look for large discrepancies to wager on.

My line in this game tells me that Carolina is 10 points better than Dallas. Granted...I don't know how to properly account for Romo's absence, and subsequent return. But I doubt that Romo is worth 10 points in this scenario.

[Stillriledup]

I think Dallas is a lock in that game. Hope I am wrong for your sake.

Going back to the Rousey fight, when someone starts getting touted as the next coming of Christ when they are not, you get "surprises" like the Dallas game. Cam Newton was touted on TV today as having remade Charlotte in his image for crying out loud. He is being compared to Tom Brady as an MVP candidate even though he is the 17th ranked QB in the NFL. His stats are mediocre at best. When I start to see that sort of poop being dished out, I run the other way. It rarely fails to pay off.

There Gus, I gave you my thoughts before the event this time. Happy? :D

A 3-7 team is a lock to beat a 10-0 team who has a chip on their shoulder because they're an underdog (or opened as a dog) to a team who's 3-7 and would be 2-8 if Coughlin didnt choke away a game in week 1?

[no breathalyzer]

If Dallas beats the Panthers...then I'll have a hard time paying my rent.

:ThmbUp: me too.. $$$ line hard on Carolina

[tucker6]

A 3-7 team is a lock to beat a 10-0 team who has a chip on their shoulder because they're an underdog (or opened as a dog) to a team who's 3-7 and would be 2-8 if Coughlin didnt choke away a game in week 1?
We shall see soon enough SRU. Thursday is a playoff game for Dallas, and they have renewed vigor with Romo and Dez back. Let's not forget that to the Cowboys, they are 3-0 (with Romo and Dez). Carolina has a 4 game lead in their division and a two game lead for HFA, so a letdown is a possibility. Throw in the media distraction with Cam and you have all the ingredients required for the upset.

Lastly, I would be happy if Carolina won as I hate the Boys with a passion.

[ReplayRandall]

Don't forget the Greg Hardy factor when analyzing this game. Hardy knows the strengths, weaknesses and schemes of the Panther's defense since his time there ended last year......I think Carolina is prime to be fully exposed for a bad game.

[proximity]

I think Dallas is a lock in that game. Hope I am wrong for your sake.



idk anything about sports betting but in philadelphia howard eskin used to always say that if it looks too easy..... go the other way.

as soon as i saw this spread i was reminded of an eerily similar game that our (yes, our) 2006 colts championship team played at dallas:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200611190dal.htm

when the spread came out i remember thinking "oh no? our undefeated season's gonna go down to this lousy 5-4 cowboys team?"

hope i'm wrong so t'los can win but the game has a howard eskin "looks too easy" or (from horseracing) a steve fierro "three overlays pass" feel to it. :confused:

[tucker6]

idk anything about sports betting but in philadelphia howard eskin used to always say that if it looks too easy..... go the other way.

as soon as i saw this spread i was reminded of an eerily similar game that our (yes, our) 2006 colts championship team played at dallas:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200611190dal.htm

when the spread came out i remember thinking "oh no? our undefeated season's gonna go down to this lousy 5-4 cowboys team?"

hope i'm wrong so t'los can win but the game has a howard eskin "looks too easy" or (from horseracing) a steve fierro "three overlays pass" feel to it. :confused:
yep. The line stinks like a dead fish.

[Stillriledup]

We shall see soon enough SRU. Thursday is a playoff game for Dallas, and they have renewed vigor with Romo and Dez back. Let's not forget that to the Cowboys, they are 3-0 (with Romo and Dez). Carolina has a 4 game lead in their division and a two game lead for HFA, so a letdown is a possibility. Throw in the media distraction with Cam and you have all the ingredients required for the upset.

Lastly, I would be happy if Carolina won as I hate the Boys with a passion.

I think there are too many people telling Carolina they have 'no chance' which has to motivate them. They hear the talk.

[tucker6]

I think there are too many people telling Carolina they have 'no chance' which has to motivate them. They hear the talk.
I live in South Carolina. No one thinks they can lose this game around here A Panther-mania is occurring..

[Stillriledup]

I live in South Carolina. No one thinks they can lose this game around here A Panther-mania is occurring..

Players expect their fans to be confident, its the lack of respect from America that has them fired up I would imagine.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/23/10-0-panthers-are-underdogs-and-their-coach-doesnt-like-it/

[barahona44]

Extra incentive to establish full time officials, provided by the officials themselves.
I always wondered, unless they're self employed,how these guys get all this time off to do this job? Between flying around the country and games every Monday & Thursday night,that's a lot of time off requests!

[Valuist]

If Dallas beats the Panthers...then I'll have a hard time paying my rent.

I don't envy your landlord. I like Dallas to win that game.

Carolina is like a horse who's had a bunch of perfect trips. Pps are dressed up, and they aren't as good as their record indicates. They have 2 quality wins, if you count beating Seattle a quality win. They caught Green Bay at the right time, with a sore armed Aaron Rodgers. They beat Indy by 3 at home vs Andrew Luck w/an injured shoulder and ribs. Philly? They've been exposed. Washington and Tennessee are bad teams. Tampa? Maybe on improve but still an unknown commodity. They beat Houston with sleepy Ryan Mallett at QB, and the Saints with Luke McCown behind center.

Dallas clearly is a different team with Romo. 3-0 with him, 0-7 without him. They were a legit 11-5 last year, so Romo is 14-5 the past 2 seasons. Both Dallas and Detroit are used to the T-Giving preparation. Carolina isn't. This isn't a "trap" line; its a legit line.

[Fred]

Anyone who thinks all NFL games are on the up-and-up ain't paying attention. With all the money at stake, corruption is not just a possibility, it's inevitable.

Follow the money. Plenty of refs, QBs and kickers living high on the hog in retirement.

A prime example is queued up for Thursday's game in Dallas. It won't be an upset to me, as the home team rocks the Panthers.

Wow I did not know that. QBs I understand. Can you give us some examples of kickers and refs that are living high on the hog in retirement due to money from gambling and cheating

[Valuist]

Anyone who thinks all NFL games are on the up-and-up ain't paying attention. With all the money at stake, corruption is not just a possibility, it's inevitable.

Follow the money. Plenty of refs, QBs and kickers living high on the hog in retirement.

A prime example is queued up for Thursday's game in Dallas. It won't be an upset to me, as the home team rocks the Panthers.

You really believe QBs are fixing games? Even the backups are making 7 figures a year. And backups don't know if they will get into a game. So most starting QBs are making EIGHT figures a year. What are you going to do, pay somebody a million bucks to throw a game? And if you pay somebody a million to throw a game, how many more millions would you have to bet to offset that? And limits are considerably less than that, unless its a known square like Meriweather.

[Robert Fischer]

I've mentioned 2 things that I see:

- revenue driving games (when the outcome may significantly affect revenue)

-occasional house gambling games (non-revenue games that present a potential for the public to over-bet a side, which can be noted from line movement(or even the original line) encouraging the over-betting)


Coming soon?: will be a 3rd thing = fantasy betting stats :D

[TJDave]

I have now come to a point where I can create what I consider to be a reliable betting line for every NFL, MLB and NBA game out there. I compare my line to the Vegas line...and look for large discrepancies to wager on.

If I may ask, what was your assessment of the Monday night line?

[thaskalos]

If I may ask, what was your assessment of the Monday night line?
Last Monday night? My line was Arizona -4.

[thaskalos]

I don't envy your landlord. I like Dallas to win that game.

Carolina is like a horse who's had a bunch of perfect trips. Pps are dressed up, and they aren't as good as their record indicates. They have 2 quality wins, if you count beating Seattle a quality win. They caught Green Bay at the right time, with a sore armed Aaron Rodgers. They beat Indy by 3 at home vs Andrew Luck w/an injured shoulder and ribs. Philly? They've been exposed. Washington and Tennessee are bad teams. Tampa? Maybe on improve but still an unknown commodity. They beat Houston with sleepy Ryan Mallett at QB, and the Saints with Luke McCown behind center.

Dallas clearly is a different team with Romo. 3-0 with him, 0-7 without him. They were a legit 11-5 last year, so Romo is 14-5 the past 2 seasons. Both Dallas and Detroit are used to the T-Giving preparation. Carolina isn't. This isn't a "trap" line; its a legit line.
I couldn't disagree more.

Carolina's body of work this year is more impressive than that of the Romo-led Cowboys. Romo should have lost to the only decent team he faced this year...whereas Carolina has dismantled better competition.

[TJDave]

No, two days ago.

[thaskalos]

No, two days ago.
Sorry...my mistake. I had NE -7.5 in that game. My line is often right on the Vegas line...and that gives me encouragement that I am on the right path. If I always disagreed with the Vegas line...then I would be worried.

But there are usually 3-5 sizable discrepancies in the weekly line...so, I can still get plenty of action.

[tucker6]

I couldn't disagree more.

Carolina's body of work this year is more impressive than that of the Romo-led Cowboys. Romo should have lost to the only decent team he faced this year...whereas Carolina has dismantled better competition.
How does one accurately judge Dallas' body of work this year? Dez goes out week 2, and Tony week 3. Hard to get a good handle on that offense given the inconsistent personnel available.

[Stillriledup]

How does one accurately judge Dallas' body of work this year? Dez goes out week 2, and Tony week 3. Hard to get a good handle on that offense given the inconsistent personnel available.
There's dozens of players on the team, if these guys are losing 7 games in a row because one or 2 players got hurt, can't you make the case they're not very strong inherently?

[thaskalos]

How does one accurately judge Dallas' body of work this year? Dez goes out week 2, and Tony week 3. Hard to get a good handle on that offense given the inconsistent personnel available.
You cannot accurately judge Dallas's body of work. But you can't justify having them favored in tomorrow's game either...IMO.

Cam Newton may indeed be overrated. But the Panthers as a team are still thought of as less than an elite team...and that's a shame, given what they've accomplished this year.

[tucker6]

There's dozens of players on the team, if these guys are losing 7 games in a row because one or 2 players got hurt, can't you make the case they're not very strong inherently?
absolutely. That points to a weak coaching staff. However, if Romo is a talisman that they can rally around, does that not make them dangerous for the bettor?

[tucker6]

You cannot accurately judge Dallas's body of work. But you can't justify having them favored in tomorrow's game either...IMO.

Cam Newton may indeed be overrated. But the Panthers as a team are still thought of as less than an elite team...and that's a shame, given what they've accomplished this year.
Carolina is a very good team. Great team? Time will tell.

[Stillriledup]

absolutely. That points to a weak coaching staff. However, if Romo is a talisman that they can rally around, does that not make them dangerous for the bettor?

I guess it's possible one player could make that big of a difference in today's landscape.

[proximity]

Cam Newton may indeed be overrated. But the Panthers as a team are still thought of as less than an elite team...and that's a shame, given what they've accomplished this year.

14 consecutive regular season "perfect trips" in a row? almost sounds like emd talking about American pharaoh. :)

if Carolina indeed is a below average 15-1 (last 16) nfl team...... then how far below this are they? 11-5 ish?? :confused:

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Wow I did not know that. QBs I understand. Can you give us some examples of kickers and refs that are living high on the hog in retirement due to money from gambling and cheating

Refs? Really? Too numerous to count. Going against the zebras is bad mojo.

Kickers? More of reach, but this example comes to mind, with the total at 42.5 (I don't recall the side)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTGco82JKHo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_City_Relay

With the PAT now at 33 yards, the opportunity for kickers to "influence" the outcome is even greater.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

You really believe QBs are fixing games? Even the backups are making 7 figures a year. And backups don't know if they will get into a game. So most starting QBs are making EIGHT figures a year. What are you going to do, pay somebody a million bucks to throw a game? And if you pay somebody a million to throw a game, how many more millions would you have to bet to offset that? And limits are considerably less than that, unless its a known square like Meriweather.

A player's or ref's influence can be bought....or....it can be obtained via other means. And I'm not referring to betting as the only money involved. Losing home teams don't sell as many tickets, or command higher advertising revenue.

And while you ponder that, please provide an example industry or activity, involving relatively large sums of money, in which corruption of some sort hasn't been at least attempted, if not ongoing and successful. I cannot think of any.

[tucker6]

Thask, glad your landlord is happy lol. :D

After Romo's first pick six, I said they still had a chance to prevent me from eating crow. After the second pick six, I had a healthy serving of crow. After his 3rd int in the first half, Romo was dead to me lol. Never, ever trust Tony Romo in big games.

... but before we anoint Carolina and Newton, the score would have been 16-14 without all those Romo giveaways. I still don't think Carolina is all that. Even the defense. Romo couldn't read a chiildren's book yesterday, let alone a defensive scheme.

[cj]

You cannot accurately judge Dallas's body of work. But you can't justify having them favored in tomorrow's game either...IMO.

Cam Newton may indeed be overrated. But the Panthers as a team are still thought of as less than an elite team...and that's a shame, given what they've accomplished this year.

Very nice call.

[thaskalos]

Thask, glad your landlord is happy lol. :D



Not yet. I still have a few bets pending... :)

[thaskalos]

Very nice call.
That's the difference between betting sports and betting horses...IMO.

If this were horse racing...then the suspicious betting action on this event would have been indicative of some sort of "inside information"...and the prudent thing to do would have been to keep our money in our pockets. In horse racing...spotting REAL "value" is a much more complicated endeavor.

[Stick]

I think this whole thread proves how the NFL betting machine works. Such a difference of opinion based on how you look at the game. One side says Romo has his second game back, they are home on Thanksgiving, and Carolina is overrated.The other side says Carolina is just the better team. They will be the play regardless of any power numbers you use. You will get plenty of bettors believing both sides. Think about next week. Packers at Lions on Thursday night football. Five weeks ago the books couldn't get the line high enough. But now you have a situation where a great difference of opinion will come with the Packers being a road favorite.

[thaskalos]

I think this whole thread proves how the NFL betting machine works. Such a difference of opinion based on how you look at the game. One side says Romo has his second game back, they are home on Thanksgiving, and Carolina is overrated.The other side says Carolina is just the better team. They will be the play regardless of any power numbers you use. You will get plenty of bettors believing both sides. Think about next week. Packers at Lions on Thursday night football. Five weeks ago the books couldn't get the line high enough. But now you have a situation where a great difference of opinion will come with the Packers being a road favorite.
Yes...there is a great difference of opinion in the NFL betting machine. But all the information is "out there"...so, the bettor needn't worry that someone else possesses valuable information which he himself cannot access.

It's nice to have a level playing field...IMO.

[Valuist]

A player's or ref's influence can be bought....or....it can be obtained via other means. And I'm not referring to betting as the only money involved. Losing home teams don't sell as many tickets, or command higher advertising revenue.

And while you ponder that, please provide an example industry or activity, involving relatively large sums of money, in which corruption of some sort hasn't been at least attempted, if not ongoing and successful. I cannot think of any.

I would say college sports are a far more likely place to get game fixing. As for pro sports, I think the Donaghy scandal shows that refs are susceptible, not only due to their influence on a game, but their relatively low pay (compared to players). But those with the greatest impact on pro sports events, QBs, starting pitchers, and goal tenders, tend to be very highly compensated. When one is making millions of dollars already, the risk/reward is too negative for those guys to fix.

[Stillriledup]

I think this whole thread proves how the NFL betting machine works. Such a difference of opinion based on how you look at the game. One side says Romo has his second game back, they are home on Thanksgiving, and Carolina is overrated.The other side says Carolina is just the better team. They will be the play regardless of any power numbers you use. You will get plenty of bettors believing both sides. Think about next week. Packers at Lions on Thursday night football. Five weeks ago the books couldn't get the line high enough. But now you have a situation where a great difference of opinion will come with the Packers being a road favorite.

Things have changed a bit w increased media and social media, the Panthers players KNEW enough people were disrespecting them, including vegas (and offshore) who didn't make them a decided favorite.

This disrespect changes the dynamic.

If vegas opened Carolina a 10 pt fave and nobody gave Dallas a prayer, things might have been different.

[cj]

If vegas opened Carolina a 10 pt fave and nobody gave Dallas a prayer, things might have been different.

Players play differently because of a point spread...I've heard it all now.

[Stick]

Things have changed a bit w increased media and social media, the Panthers players KNEW enough people were disrespecting them, including vegas (and offshore) who didn't make them a decided favorite.

This disrespect changes the dynamic.

If vegas opened Carolina a 10 pt fave and nobody gave Dallas a prayer, things might have been different.

I understand what you are saying, but there still has to be that opinion for the books to make such a line. You can not make this game a pick if opinion is Romo and home on Thanksgiving will not matter. Now you are saying motivation flips because Carolina sees the disrespect. Just another way of handicapping on your part.

[Stick]

Yes...there is a great difference of opinion in the NFL betting machine. But all the information is "out there"...so, the bettor needn't worry that someone else possesses valuable information which he himself cannot access.

It's nice to have a level playing field...IMO.

Thask,

To me it depends on what track I am seeing this line that differs greatly from mine. I agree that at some tracks the opposite opinion makes me keep my money in my pocket.

[Stillriledup]

I understand what you are saying, but there still has to be that opinion for the books to make such a line. You can not make this game a pick if opinion is Romo and home on Thanksgiving will not matter. Now you are saying motivation flips because Carolina sees the disrespect. Just another way of handicapping on your part.

All is fair in love a sports handicapping, when I read Carolina HC comment about being a dog I knew this would be a rally cry in the locker room, now that doesn't assure a Carolina victory, but if you know that they're feeling disrespected and might come out with a chip on their shoulders, why would you (not you personally) want to bet against that?

The books aren't making the line because they think Romo will matter, they're making the line knowing how the gamblers think. If the public thinks Romo matters, they have to make the line according to that, they just want as much equal action as they can get.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

All is fair in love a sports handicapping, when I read Carolina HC comment about being a dog I knew this would be a rally cry in the locker room, now that doesn't assure a Carolina victory, but if you know that they're feeling disrespected and might come out with a chip on their shoulders, why would you (not you personally) want to bet against that?

The books aren't making the line because they think Romo will matter, they're making the line knowing how the gamblers think. If the public thinks Romo matters, they have to make the line according to that, they just want as much equal action as they can get.

I think the books do some handicapping themselves, and post a line that puts them in a position to take a stand and make money - and not necessarily to balance the action. I thought Carolina should have been a 3.5 or 4 point favorite, and when they opened up +1, I assumed (incorrectly) that the play was Dallas. As America's team, Dallas always gets a point or two, and Romo coming back was actually a negative in my mind, but after reading a few comments in this thread in support of Dallas, I backed off a bit and just made them a regular play. Lucky for me.

I do think the spread can be used for motivation, and the players are aware of what it is, but that's more of a college angle.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

I would say college sports are a far more likely place to get game fixing. As for pro sports, I think the Donaghy scandal shows that refs are susceptible, not only due to their influence on a game, but their relatively low pay (compared to players). But those with the greatest impact on pro sports events, QBs, starting pitchers, and goal tenders, tend to be very highly compensated. When one is making millions of dollars already, the risk/reward is too negative for those guys to fix.

I think baseball and hockey are relatively clean, as with such low scoring they are harder events to fix. Football is shady, and again - it's not just money involved in the fix. The groups behind the scenes may have leverage on some of these players (i.e., blackmail, threats, etc), or they may be feeding their egos with altering the outcomes. Sort of like the mob fixing racings for J Edgar Hoover to cash his $10 win bet. The worst is the NBA. A road team in a close game has to work to get a call late.

A friend of mine was part of a syndicate back in the 1960s that used to pay off college basketball refs. $10,000 for a winner, $2,000 regardless of the outcome. They would attempt a coup about six times per season. That was a lot of dough back then.....

[Stillriledup]

I think the books do some handicapping themselves, and post a line that puts them in a position to take a stand and make money - and not necessarily to balance the action. I thought Carolina should have been a 3.5 or 4 point favorite, and when they opened up +1, I assumed (incorrectly) that the play was Dallas. As America's team, Dallas always gets a point or two, and Romo coming back was actually a negative in my mind, but after reading a few comments in this thread in support of Dallas, I backed off a bit and just made them a regular play. Lucky for me.

I do think the spread can be used for motivation, and the players are aware of what it is, but that's more of a college angle.

Depends on the book and bookmaker as to which places may shade a line to get more action on one side. You would think that books making the Dallas line lie that were trying to lure gamblers to bet ON Carolina but there's a sentiment in the gambling community that when a spread looks 'too good to be true' it usually is. Many were skeptical of Carolina because how can a 10-0 team open a dog vs a 3-7 team? It seemed fishy so there were plenty of Carolina bettors treading w caution.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Depends on the book and bookmaker as to which places may shade a line to get more action on one side. You would think that books making the Dallas line lie that were trying to lure gamblers to bet ON Carolina but there's a sentiment in the gambling community that when a spread looks 'too good to be true' it usually is. Many were skeptical of Carolina because how can a 10-0 team open a dog vs a 3-7 team? It seemed fishy so there were plenty of Carolina bettors treading w caution.

All I can say now, in retrospect, is that it was an odd line.

Little did I know the NFL was reserving their flim-flam for the Sunday night game, and to ensure the home team gets the win, the refs pretty much had to carry the Broncos the last 20 mins of regulation.

The 1972 Dolphins now just need to get one last team to lose - the evil Panthers.

[ReplayRandall]

The 1972 Dolphins now just need to get one last team to lose - the evil Panthers.

Current odds on Carolina to go 16-0---->5-1

Current odds on Carolina to go 16-0 and win Super Bowl 50---->16-1

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/american-football/nfl-specials/Carolina-Panthers---Undefeated-9558385.html

[burnsy]

I would say college sports are a far more likely place to get game fixing. As for pro sports, I think the Donaghy scandal shows that refs are susceptible, not only due to their influence on a game, but their relatively low pay (compared to players). But those with the greatest impact on pro sports events, QBs, starting pitchers, and goal tenders, tend to be very highly compensated. When one is making millions of dollars already, the risk/reward is too negative for those guys to fix.

I only bet pro football for this reason, plus, I don't know crap about College football. I only bet the major circuit race tracks for the same reason. People come on here and bitch about all the "Bush tracks" but what do they expect? The people are racing for 4000 dollar purses or lower for crying out loud. Where's the risk? If they don't do something they may not make it. If a guy at Belmont, Keenland, Del Mar or Saratoga gets caught with a buzzer or a the horse is doped and they get caught at least there's deterrents. People stand to lose hundreds of thousands and maybe millions if the career ends. Do some still do it? Of course they do. Greed often trumps smarts. But at some lower levels of ANYTHING, there's probably triple the cheating......not scientific, but its just human nature. Comfortable people with a super star rep, stand to lose way more than they can ever gain by cheating.

I grew up in the shadow of two race tracks. There was one major scandal involving the thoroughbreds in the 70's or 80's. Can't exactly remember but its all documented. Some famous guys too, but it was major and pretty much nipped. At the harness where they run for peanuts, some of my friends fathers would get phone calls, that afternoon, telling them to "show up tonight" you will get your pic taken........ How did they know 7 hours in advance? ;) I don't know if this still goes on, but miraculously 99-1 shots seem to win 2 or 3 weeks before the Spa Harness break....happened the other night......Holiday, season ending coinky dinky.....huge numbers.... :lol:

One has to "handicap" the cheating at these bull rings or I don't see how they can complain.

[Robert Fischer]

I would say college sports are a far more likely place to get game fixing. As for pro sports, I think the Donaghy scandal shows that refs are susceptible, not only due to their influence on a game, but their relatively low pay (compared to players). But those with the greatest impact on pro sports events, QBs, starting pitchers, and goal tenders, tend to be very highly compensated. When one is making millions of dollars already, the risk/reward is too negative for those guys to fix.

Everyone has a price. I don't care how much they are compensated from their salary or how unlikely it may seem regarding 'risk/reward' from one of us, a fan.

Even Jordan, one of the wealthiest athletes (salary and endorsements) had to take some time off and play baseball.

It's a jungle out there.

[EMD4ME]

Everyone has a price. I don't care how much they are compensated from their salary or how unlikely it may seem regarding 'risk/reward' from one of us, a fan.

Even Jordan, one of the wealthiest athletes (salary and endorsements) had to take some time off and play baseball.

It's a jungle out there.

Ya'll will think I am nuts but it is my conspiracy theory that MJ didn't play baseball for fun or for a passion. He was suspended (silently by David Stern) for mounting gambling debt. What was Dave to do? Announce it? That would've been the end of basketball.

Why do I think this? Well, why else would his dad be murdered?

When you owe money, they don't hurt just you, they hurt your family so you get the message.

[Stillriledup]

Players play differently because of a point spread...I've heard it all now.

When you're a dog to a 3-7 team and you're 10-0 and the coach uses that as a rally cry and gets the players to take it personally than yeah, there's a little extra mustard on those tackles. People try harder when it's personal and or they feel dissed, human nature.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

...I grew up in the shadow of two race tracks. There was one major scandal involving the thoroughbreds in the 70's or 80's. Can't exactly remember but its all documented. Some famous guys too, but it was major and pretty much nipped. At the harness where they run for peanuts, some of my friends fathers would get phone calls, that afternoon, telling them to "show up tonight" you will get your pic taken........ How did they know 7 hours in advance? ;) I don't know if this still goes on, but miraculously 99-1 shots seem to win 2 or 3 weeks before the Spa Harness break....happened the other night......Holiday, season ending coinky dinky.....huge numbers.... :lol:

One has to "handicap" the cheating at these bull rings or I don't see how they can complain.

Yes, without a doubt there are "insider" angles that can cash. Showing up to get your picture taken reminds me of one of my cronies from Fairmount, who back in the 1980s was at the car races one afternoon with some people in the pit shooting the bull with a sports reporter from the Post-Dispatch. The conversation turned to "race results", with the reporter complaining how long he had to stay around for some events . His comment went something along the lines of, "Why can't you guys be like the wrestling matches?" He then showed them the "results" for that evening's matches, including the winner and time of the match..... :D

After all, it's just entertainment.

[Stillriledup]

Refs of all ages and shapes encourage you to think missed calls are strictly mistakes, incompetence and bozo the clown stuff and the reason they want you to think that is because incompetence isn't as bad as fixing the games. They're either just bad at their jobs or they are dishonest, it has to be one or the other.

[Tom]

News Flash.

The NFL hired Steve Harvey as a ref today.

[Stillriledup]

I would say college sports are a far more likely place to get game fixing. As for pro sports, I think the Donaghy scandal shows that refs are susceptible, not only due to their influence on a game, but their relatively low pay (compared to players). But those with the greatest impact on pro sports events, QBs, starting pitchers, and goal tenders, tend to be very highly compensated. When one is making millions of dollars already, the risk/reward is too negative for those guys to fix..

This assumes it's the players fixing the games, players aren't fixing games as there's no incentive. The league fixing their own games, that's a horse of a different color.

[Valuist]

.

This assumes it's the players fixing the games, players aren't fixing games as there's no incentive. The league fixing their own games, that's a horse of a different color.

Are you referring to the officials? That's the one angle out there that could work. But as we saw with Donaghy, he got caught. Could a ref fix an isolated game or two? Sure. But look at Donaghy; he couldn't stop at one or two. Kind of like the Drexel Pic 6 guys.

[Valuist]

Everyone has a price. I don't care how much they are compensated from their salary or how unlikely it may seem regarding 'risk/reward' from one of us, a fan.

Even Jordan, one of the wealthiest athletes (salary and endorsements) had to take some time off and play baseball.

It's a jungle out there.

What player is most likely to affect an NFL game? The QB. Look at the monster salaries. If Cutler makes nearly $20 million, how much would it take for him to fix a game? $5 million? $10 million? For arguments sake, let's just say it is $10 million. So you, as a fixer already have a $10 million expense on your books. So how much do you need to get down? $20 million to make it worth while? How on earth are you gonna do that? Cantor might let Floyd Meriweather put down a million dollar wager every now and then but they are gonna let you sniff that. You probably aren't going to be able to put down more than $10k at a time anywhere, and certainly not everywhere. All that and there's no guarantee the fix will work. Any player fixing a game can't just go out and throw INTs on every pass. Looks way too suspicious. A basketball player just can't commit turnovers every time he touches the ball. Again, it has to be more subtle than that.

Now if we are talking college sports, it's a whole different scenario.

[Valuist]

After watching a number of bowl games, it's clear that NFL refs are still far better than the morons doing college games.

[Stillriledup]

What player is most likely to affect an NFL game? The QB. Look at the monster salaries. If Cutler makes nearly $20 million, how much would it take for him to fix a game? $5 million? $10 million? For arguments sake, let's just say it is $10 million. So you, as a fixer already have a $10 million expense on your books. So how much do you need to get down? $20 million to make it worth while? How on earth are you gonna do that? Cantor might let Floyd Meriweather put down a million dollar wager every now and then but they are gonna let you sniff that. You probably aren't going to be able to put down more than $10k at a time anywhere, and certainly not everywhere. All that and there's no guarantee the fix will work. Any player fixing a game can't just go out and throw INTs on every pass. Looks way too suspicious. A basketball player just can't commit turnovers every time he touches the ball. Again, it has to be more subtle than that.

Now if we are talking college sports, it's a whole different scenario.

It would take much less to fix a game, especially if the Qb doing the fixing was on a team who was out of playoff contention.

[ManU918]

After watching a number of bowl games, it's clear that NFL refs are still far better than the morons doing college games.

The FG (That was called no good but was good) in the Indiana vs Duke game f'd me... I'll go to my grave with that one.

[Valuist]

It would take much less to fix a game, especially if the Qb doing the fixing was on a team who was out of playoff contention.

I disagree. You are talking about players who make $10-20 million a year. The downside risk is so huge in getting caught, a guy would have to be brain dead to be on the take. People still talk about Joe Jackson, nearly 100 years after the fact.

[Valuist]

The FG (That was called no good but was good) in the Indiana vs Duke game f'd me... I'll go to my grave with that one.

In the Wisky game last night, the Badgers had a clear TD but was ruled that the player stepped out of bounds. Replays should he clearly didn't....but it wasn't a reviewable play. Then, 2 plays later, Wisky WR is tackled about a second and half before ball arrives. No flag. Badgers had to punt. That clearly could've affected the result.

We've also seen several poor calls on targeting, and those were reviewable. Really pathetic when something is reviewable and they still can't get it right.

[cj]

In the Wisky game last night, the Badgers had a clear TD but was ruled that the player stepped out of bounds. Replays should he clearly didn't....but it wasn't a reviewable play. Then, 2 plays later, Wisky WR is tackled about a second and half before ball arrives. No flag. Badgers had to punt. That clearly could've affected the result.

We've also seen several poor calls on targeting, and those were reviewable. Really pathetic when something is reviewable and they still can't get it right.

Same in NBA, the rules don't allow them to get it right even with replay. Taj Gibson did the flop of flops on Christmas Day, they reviewed for a flagrant, and even though it was obviously no call they had to stick with the foul call on Collison. It happens on possession calls too, obvious fouls are ignored while they study who touched it last.

[Stillriledup]

I disagree. You are talking about players who make $10-20 million a year. The downside risk is so huge in getting caught, a guy would have to be brain dead to be on the take. People still talk about Joe Jackson, nearly 100 years after the fact.

But you're using logic. And you're assuming that threats to family members that don't involve '5 million' are also not being used.

[ponyplayerdotca]

I love that stipulation in all sports replay review process.

FYI rulesmakers - EVERY PLAY IS A REVIEWABLE PLAY!

What do you think everyone watching on TV is doing when every slo-motion replay is shown? Television broadcasts are what forced sports leagues to HAVE TO HAVE replay in there rules. But good ol' "red tape" still provides for many scenarios that, by rule, "aren't reviewable".

What does that mean? If a play is called incorrectly, and it is beared out by the replay, then REVERSE THE CALL and CORRECT IT! How hard is that to do in this day and age? And get rid of "number of challenges permitted". Have an eye in the sky headquarters review every play as it happens. They can notify the officiating crew when a call needs to be reversed. No stopping play until HQ notifies of an error. It shouldn't be "we don't need to review anything unless they challenge it" or "they have no challenges left", so tough luck.

As long as they refuse to let certain plays be reviewed, no sport will ever have a completely fair game system.

[rastajenk]

And that has led to games being decided by fractions of an inch sometimes, or incredible hair splitting: did his toe touch in bounds before his heel hit out, did he momentarily let go of the ball (by millimeters) before securing it while falling, did he "complete a football move" whatever that is, did he "break the plane" and dozens of other silly results of having HDTV. Football in particular is big men doing big things and needn't be slowed down by trying to decide things in such a clinical manner. It has become nearly un-watchable at times, or I should say, at way too many times. Having too many reviews gives teams extra time-outs that they don't deserve and breaks up the importance of rhythm and momentum. It does give sponsors more chances to run the endless cycle of ads, though.

[Tom]

Replay is a joke.
Especially when TV shows an obvious view and the idiot zebras ignore it.

All NFL refs should be made to dress as rodeo clowns.
And drive onto the field in one car.

[Valuist]

But you're using logic. And you're assuming that threats to family members that don't involve '5 million' are also not being used.

And you have examples of these threats??

[Secondbest]

In my humble opinion replay should be done like they do in tennis.If there is a challenge.They show the ball the line 10 seconds done that's it no 5 minute conferences none of the game slowing BS.Inbounds out of bounds touchdown or no touchdown that's it .If abad call happens it happens.Game will flow faster .And be a much better watch.

[Stillriledup]

And you have examples of these threats??

No. But that doesn't mean there aren't any.