Horses who Break Through Gate

[Fox]

Anyone have any hard numbers on horses who break through the gate and are reloaded in terms of ROI, Impact Value, etc?

The favorite #6 in Race 2 at Charles Town broke through the gate tonight and finished out of the money. I know it's common wisdom that it is a negative thing, but it got me wondering if anyone ever compiled a sample to see how bad it is.

Thanks.

[v j stauffer]

Anyone have any hard numbers on horses who break through the gate and are reloaded in terms of ROI, Impact Value, etc?

The favorite #6 in Race 2 at Charles Town broke through the gate tonight and finished out of the money. I know it's common wisdom that it is a negative thing, but it got me wondering if anyone ever compiled a sample to see how bad it is.

Thanks.

In my 40 years in the business I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I've seen them win.

[Stillriledup]

There was a break thru a month or so ago at Belmont that won, it was a turf sprint, she had an inside post and was favored w Castellano. She was impressive, I can't remember the name, she's one I would consider playing back.

[biggestal99]

Break tjhough gate. cancel wager.

only once or twice has the horse that I selected to win one over the 40 Years
of being a horseplayer.

ROI is very low.

Allan

[castaway01]

Very, very, very rare that they win. If it's a favorite you didn't bet and see it break through the gate then reload, you do a little happy dance.

[RacingFan1992]

Three well known horses who broke through the gate and lost:

Secretariat 1973 Wood Memorial: Came in 3rd

Seattle Slew 1978 Jockey Club Gold Cup: Came in 2nd

Barbaro 2006 Preakness: Broke down and did not finish

[ronsmac]

Three well known horses who broke through the gate and lost:

Secretariat 1973 Wood Memorial: Came in 3rd

Seattle Slew 1978 Jockey Club Gold Cup: Came in 2nd

Barbaro 2006 Preakness: Broke down and did not finish
Many people woulf say Seattle Slew's 1978 jockey club gold cup was his finest race.

[RacingFan1992]

Many people woulf say Seattle Slew's 1978 jockey club gold cup was his finest race.

He was ennobled in defeat. They went the opening 1/4 in 22 3/5, 1/2 in 45 1/5, 3/4 in 1:09 2/5, 1 Mile in 1:35 1/5, 1 1/4 in 2:01 4/5, and 1 1/2 in 2:27 1/5. The fact that he got locked in a speed dual, tried to get a breather, was caught by Shoemaker, and fought back to lose by a head all after the starting gate did something weird. Now it doesn't look like he smashed through it but rather it flew open and he saw it was open so he did what was expected of him when the gate does open: He took off.

[Rise Over Run]

There was a break thru a month or so ago at Belmont that won, it was a turf sprint, she had an inside post and was favored w Castellano. She was impressive, I can't remember the name, she's one I would consider playing back.
Miss Matzoball, October 24 Belmont. I had a large win bet on her that I cancelled while everyone was standing around making sure she was ok. She romped by 4 lengths at 2-1.

They stretched her out to a mile at Aqueduct last week and it didn't go as well.

[iwearpurple]

Many years ago at Santa Anita, I hit my biggest winner ever. Horse paid $143.00 after breaking through the gate. Was about 30-1 when I bet him.

A friend who was with me made a mistake, bet this horse but intended to bet another horse. Gave clerk the wrong number. So both of us had this one.

[Stillriledup]

Miss Matzoball, October 24 Belmont. I had a large win bet on her that I cancelled while everyone was standing around making sure she was ok. She romped by 4 lengths at 2-1.

They stretched her out to a mile at Aqueduct last week and it didn't go as well.

Thank you, that's her. :ThmbUp:

[Flysofree]

Three well known horses who broke through the gate and lost:

Secretariat 1973 Wood Memorial: Came in 3rd

Seattle Slew 1978 Jockey Club Gold Cup: Came in 2nd

Barbaro 2006 Preakness: Broke down and did not finish


I remember Barbaro, but not the other two races...Although I was a fan back then too.. I used to think it was very rare for a high caliber horse to do this.
Thanks for posting! :ThmbUp:

[whodoyoulike]

In my 40 years in the business I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I've seen them win.

I've also seen them win on only a few rare occasions which seems to be the consensus on here.

Does anyone on here know why not winning or even doing well occurs?

Is it because this is an indication the horse may be too wound up?

[davew]

I've also seen them win on only a few rare occasions which seems to be the consensus on here.

Does anyone on here know why not winning or even doing well occurs?

Is it because this is an indication the horse may be too wound up?


I do not feel it occurs very often

1- horse breaks through gate
2- horse is not a late scratch and actually runs

this is surely not a daily occurrence

a big difference in performance is how soon the jockey gets the horse slowed down and returned to gate - if it takes a furlong or more of full speed, that is a big chunk of fuel in many races...

[v j stauffer]

A big factor IMO is the jockey after the break through takes place.

It's only human nature to wonder if the horse might have banged himself and be a bit ouchy while running.

That coupled with the fact he's pissed off at his agent and the trainer for putting him on an Orangutan that could very well land him injured on the sidelines.

[no breathalyzer]

I would love the next out stats on horses that dump the jockey and win the race unofficially (with out the jockey on back)..

[EMD4ME]

I would love the next out stats on horses that dump the jockey and win the race unofficially (with out the jockey on back)..

MORTAL LOCKS ?







Sorry Vic, I couldn't resist :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[whodoyoulike]

MORTAL LOCKS ?







Sorry Vic, I couldn't resist :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This post doesn't make any sense.

When people call you a Moron, Dumb Ass or a Self Centered POS it's not considered "name calling" because they're just stating the obvious.

The more you post, more and more questions are raised about your intelligence.

[no breathalyzer]

This post doesn't make any sense.

When people call you a Moron, Dumb Ass or a Self Centered POS it's not considered "name calling" because they're just stating the obvious.

The more you post, more and more questions are raised about your intelligence.



:eek: Seems like someone is just a tad bitter ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Bad day?

[EMD4ME]

:eek: Seems like someone is just a tad bitter ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Bad day?


Be careful no breathalyzer.......Now that NorCalGreg......Insert Tony Calo's voice....HAS COMPLETED THE SUPERRRRRRRRRRRFECTA.....

Now, back to your voice in your head....You don't want to be the 5th guy in the Super High Five :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[no breathalyzer]

Time for a side note comment.... Seems like where ever either at track, OTB, on Pace, twitter or friends house Or WHEREVER.. People always seem extra bitter when they been losing . I'm the same way at times. what separates the men from the boys betting horses is to avoid the bitter tilt.. same goes playing poker. TILT in any form of gambling is MAJOR -EV


sorry just my random 2 cents for the night.. gl tomarrow

[Stillriledup]

This post doesn't make any sense.

When people call you a Moron, Dumb Ass or a Self Centered POS it's not considered "name calling" because they're just stating the obvious.

The more you post, more and more questions are raised about your intelligence.

You know, this post only reflects poorly on you. If you're trying to make PA the best horse racing message board on the Internet, you're not doing a very good job. How about stop with the hater stuff and start posting up something that can help the community become better horse handicappers and better people.

C'mon now, you're better than this.

[whodoyoulike]

You know, this post only reflects poorly on you. If you're trying to make PA the best horse racing message board on the Internet, you're not doing a very good job. How about stop with the hater stuff and start posting up something that can help the community become better horse handicappers and better people.

C'mon now, you're better than this.

So, explain how a horse who breaks thru the gate is a Mortal Lock?

The OP and my question seemed reasonable questions and the replies except for EMD's appeared a legit response.

There's been no hater stuff and pay attention to the posts.

[whodoyoulike]

:eek: Seems like someone is just a tad bitter ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Bad day?

How about explaining his response?

[no breathalyzer]

One more random note the guy with initials J.F that always cries about jockeys really needs to stop whining like a b****.. that's all.. again gl tomarrow

[whodoyoulike]

Be careful no breathalyzer.......Now that NorCalGreg......Insert Tony Calo's voice....HAS COMPLETED THE SUPERRRRRRRRRRRFECTA.....

Now, back to your voice in your head....You don't want to be the 5th guy in the Super High Five :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

WTH are you writing about?

But, I do understand about the voice in your head.

[whodoyoulike]

One more random note the guy with initials J.F that always cries about jockeys really needs to stop whining like a b****.. that's all.. again gl tomarrow

Was this directed towards me?

Because, I guess yours is another post which I don't understand in this thread.

[no breathalyzer]

Was this directed towards me?

Because, I guess yours is another post which I don't understand in this thread.

I don't know it is possible.. but only if initials are J.F.

[no breathalyzer]

ca·peesh ? :lol:

[Valuist]

I think "hit gate" may be worse. Rarely see a horse run well who smashes into the starting gate at the start.

[whodoyoulike]

I think "hit gate" may be worse. Rarely see a horse run well who smashes into the starting gate at the start.

I've noticed this is usually true.

So, when a horse breaks thru the gate, does he actually "hit the gate" (I actually think they do to some degree)?

[EMD4ME]

Tony Calo Voice back again .....

The quintet is set.........

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Daaaaaaaaiiiiiirrrrr Deeeyyyyyyy GOOOOOO...

No Breathalyzer springs out like a rocketship, the jock just trying to hang on as he sprints away by 6!

Stillriled up is out well as well showing gooooooood tactical speed with NorCalGreg a witty and sharp ground saving third. You can hear EMD4ME whispering Forego as he rates smoothly next to last and.........

Wheres Whodoyoulike? Ladies and Gentlemen Whodoyoulike is glued to the gate like Jeff Daniel's tongue was stuck to the frozen ski lift in Dumb and Dumber!

https://youtu.be/PMhJdKGkJk0?t=10

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Stillriledup]

So, explain how a horse who breaks thru the gate is a Mortal Lock?

The OP and my question seemed reasonable questions and the replies except for EMD's appeared a legit response.

There's been no hater stuff and pay attention to the posts.

EMD posted the words 'mortal lock' recently in a thread and Vic called him out and said there are no mortal locks, so today, Vic needed a 1-5 to probably win his tournament, but the horse finished 3rd and Vic got passed by a few in the last race, so he was joking about the mortal locks, you had to have been 'following along' to get the context of the joke.

[EMD4ME]

I think "hit gate" may be worse. Rarely see a horse run well who smashes into the starting gate at the start.

Do all tracks have the same amount of padding in the gate stalls?

If not, they should.

[Stillriledup]

Tony Calo Voice back again .....

The quintet is set.........

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Daaaaaaaaiiiiiirrrrr Deeeyyyyyyy GOOOOOO...

No Breathalyzer springs out like a rocketship, the jock just trying to hang on as he sprints away by 6!

Stillriled up is out well as well showing gooooooood tactical speed with NorCalGreg a witty and sharp ground saving third. You can hear EMD4ME whispering Forego as he rates smoothly next to last and.........

Wheres Whodoyoulike? Ladies and Gentlemen Whodoyoulike is glued to the gate like Jeff Daniel's tongue was stuck to the frozen ski lift in Dumb and Dumber!

https://youtu.be/PMhJdKGkJk0?t=10

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I love when Calo gives his SUPERFECTAAAAAAAAH call. (Especially if a have it) :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Do all tracks have the same amount of padding in the gate stalls?

If not, they should.

http://www.unitedpuett.com/

[EMD4ME]

http://www.unitedpuett.com/

Should I let Emerald know? Or you? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, I'm in a sticks and bones will break my bones but words will never hurt me kinda mood tonight :D

[Fox]

I've also seen them win on only a few rare occasions which seems to be the consensus on here.

Does anyone on here know why not winning or even doing well occurs?

Is it because this is an indication the horse may be too wound up?

Just a guess but maybe it has something to do with the horse having an adrenaline and other physiological conditioned responses to the gate opening. Maybe it can only blow its adrenal load once and can't get it up for another start so to speak.

I can see this thread has been hijacked, but I am still crossing my fingers someone will swoop in and rattle off some stats on the last 100 starters they have in their database who have broken through the gate. If not, I guess I have a project on my hands.

[whodoyoulike]

EMD posted the words 'mortal lock' recently in a thread and Vic called him out and said there are no mortal locks, so today, Vic needed a 1-5 to probably win his tournament, but the horse finished 3rd and Vic got passed by a few in the last race, so he was joking about the mortal locks, you had to have been 'following along' to get the context of the joke.

So, this is just another recent example according to you that EMD is a self centered POS who thinks everyone follows all of his posts (btw, he always attempts to dominate the threads). I take it this reference was in another thread since you can't or wouldn't be able to point it out in this thread.

Again, I'm not "name calling" but just stating the obvious.

[whodoyoulike]

Just a guess but maybe it has something to do with the horse having an adrenaline and other physiological conditioned responses to the gate opening. Maybe it can only blow its adrenal load once and can't get it up for another start so to speak.

I can see this thread has been hijacked, but I am still crossing my fingers someone will swoop in and rattle off some stats on the last 100 starters they have in their database who have broken through the gate. If not, I guess I have a project on my hands.

Good point.

I was thinking something similar where the horse is too high-strung and uses up too much energy.

I'm interested and this a good topic, would you be willing to share your findings?

[Stillriledup]

So, this is just another recent example according to you that EMD is a self centered POS who thinks everyone follows all of his posts (he always attempts to dominate the threads). I take it this reference was in another thread since you can't or wouldn't be able to point it out in this thread.

Again, I'm not "name calling" but just stating the obvious.

You don't have to follow his posts if you don't want to, and calling someone a POS is name calling.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to not worry so much about one 'self centered' poster and just be a good person and solid contributor who's likeable? Isn't it better to be liked than to be the guy calling people pieces of you know what? You're acting like the guy beats old ladies and kicks animals, all he's doing is having fun posting about horse racing, it's ok to not like his style. I'm sure he doesn't like your style, we don't all have to see eye to eye, but isn't a civilized approach better for everyone?

[EMD4ME]

Whodoyoulike, I gave up on you being an adult and just speaking straight up (about your attack on me couple of months back). You are what you are.

You attacked me in this thread (really went ape poo poo) when all I did was answer NB and VIC with a joke.

Regardless, truce please. This is a good thread and I'd love to hear more.

[ultracapper]

You don't have to follow his posts if you don't want to, and calling someone a POS is name calling.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to not worry so much about one 'self centered' poster and just be a good person and solid contributor who's likeable? Isn't it better to be liked than to be the guy calling people pieces of you know what? You're acting like the guy beats old ladies and kicks animals, all he's doing is having fun posting about horse racing, it's ok to not like his style. I'm sure he doesn't like your style, we don't all have to see eye to eye, but isn't a civilized approach better for everyone?

Koom-bye-ya

[Valuist]

I've noticed this is usually true.

So, when a horse breaks thru the gate, does he actually "hit the gate" (I actually think they do to some degree)?

Yes, but they aren't primed to explode like they are at the start of the race. When a horse breaks thru before the start, the vet usually looks over the horse before its reloaded. Not saying its good, I just think that hitting the gate at the start of the race may be worse.

[castaway01]

Just a guess but maybe it has something to do with the horse having an adrenaline and other physiological conditioned responses to the gate opening. Maybe it can only blow its adrenal load once and can't get it up for another start so to speak.

I can see this thread has been hijacked, but I am still crossing my fingers someone will swoop in and rattle off some stats on the last 100 starters they have in their database who have broken through the gate. If not, I guess I have a project on my hands.

Honestly, I don't think there's any goldmine there. I know memory can be deceiving, but I don't think we all remember these horses almost always losing when they don't. There have been studies posted here of different comments in past performances and the horse's win percentage in the next race, but I searched and couldn't find them.

As far as the why, it's the reason you don't see human sprinters run halfway around the track, then come back and win. It takes too much out of them---including getting them stopped.

[NorCalGreg]

Honestly, I don't think there's any goldmine there. I know memory can be deceiving, but I don't think we all remember these horses almost always losing when they don't. There have been studies posted here of different comments in past performances and the horse's win percentage in the next race, but I searched and couldn't find them.

As far as the why, it's the reason you don't see human sprinters run halfway around the track, then come back and win. It takes too much out of them---including getting them stopped.

Excellent, castaway. Maybe we can relate that to NFL defensive linemen, so focused on getting a jump they JUMP offsides. I admit I didn't read the entire thread....I got as far back as EMD's post and couldn't continue, it was so funny :lol:

sorry folks....this thread is interesting, I'll start from the beginning and read through....please continue.

[EMD4ME]

Harness people...

How about when there's a recall? Do you feel a horse that was charging to leave (before the recall) might have left something in that recall?

[Stillriledup]

Harness people...

How about when there's a recall? Do you feel a horse that was charging to leave (before the recall) might have left something in that recall?

Yes.

[no breathalyzer]

Yes.

SRU you harness too?

[EMD4ME]

I would love the next out stats on horses that dump the jockey and win the race unofficially (with out the jockey on back)..

NB,

I actually take notes on how horses run when they dump the jock. The 1 in the 2nd race today (dumpd jock in last race) showed no heart stopping on the backstretch, for what it's worth to ya. Let's see how he does today. You can start a new excel file! :)

EMD4ME

[EMD4ME]

Tricky Zippy was her usual self. Acting up in warm up.

Broke through gate before race.

She won. She might be an abberation but she won.

[Stillriledup]

SRU you harness too?

I'm an expert in every subject.

(Just ask me :D )

[v j stauffer]

IMO you guys are still not giving enough weights to the jockeys role in the VERY low percentage.

By far the most injuries to race riders occur in the gate. Both morning and afternoon.

There are several emotions and reactions they have when one goes ballistic or breaks through.

All of them are bad.

[EMD4ME]

IMO you guys are still not giving enough weights to the jockeys role in the VERY low percentage.

By far the most injuries to race riders occur in the gate. Both morning and afternoon.

There are several emotions and reactions they have when one goes ballistic or breaks through.

All of them are bad.

I give JV A LOT of credit for not only riding 'Chippy' today, I give him credit for being patient and for not asking for the scratch.

He also was determined at the 1/4 pole when she looked to maybe be beat. He could have easily, taken it easy on her but let her do her thing and run on for the win.

(Deep down I was ticked as I also had the runner up in pick 5's but that's besides the point)

[ultracapper]

I would love the next out stats on horses that dump the jockey and win the race unofficially (with out the jockey on back)..

I think you're looking for the wrong thing here. There is some info you can get by watching a horse run after dumping the jock, but I don't think whether he finishes first or not is all that important. You can really determine how well this horse is trained by watching him run free like that. You can also really determine the horse's personality. I love seeing a horse blast through the field early after dumping the jock. When I see a horse just fall into the crowd, I'm not so impressed. It's the old "A" or "B" personality thing. In horse racing, you gotta love the "A" personalities.

[Stillriledup]

Miss Matzoball, October 24 Belmont. I had a large win bet on her that I cancelled while everyone was standing around making sure she was ok. She romped by 4 lengths at 2-1.

They stretched her out to a mile at Aqueduct last week and it didn't go as well.

Winner today at Gulfstream :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

wow

[EMD4ME]

wow

You HAVE to admit, he does keep the place hopping! :)


SRU reminds me of Stone Cold Steve Austin

PA, you are Vincent Kennedy McMahon :lol:

[Stillriledup]

You HAVE to admit, he does keep the place hopping! :)


SRU reminds me of Stone Cold Steve Austin

PA, you are Vincent Kennedy McMahon :lol:

He won't admit it, he's too busy working on his post count in the Trump threads today. He's worried ill pass him :lol:

[cj]

He won't admit it, he's too busy working on his post count in the Trump threads today. He's worried ill pass him :lol:

You seem to be the only person that actually pays attention to that. If only we could weed out the frivolous ones.

[EMD4ME]

He won't admit it, he's too busy working on his post count in the Trump threads today. He's worried ill pass him :lol:

I'm gonna play moderator here (I KNOW, HOW DISGUSTINGLY IRONIC :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ).


SRU, please behave. We need you here. Focus on QUALITY, not just QUANTITY por favor.

The PA nation is emploring you to do so :cool:

[Stillriledup]

I'm gonna play moderator here (I KNOW, HOW DISGUSTINGLY IRONIC :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ).


SRU, please behave. We need you here. Focus on QUALITY, not just QUANTITY por favor.

The PA nation is emploring you to do so :cool:

F1lJFlB-89Q

[ultracapper]

Mrs. Kensington.

God, what a classic movie. I didn't even run that link SRU put up, and I can't quit laughing just thinking about it.

[VigorsTheGrey]

F1lJFlB-89Q

Where do yous guys fine dem video shorts? There's lot's of lines from movies I'd like to use but don't know where or how to get them?