ZIA race 1

[appistappis]

two questions for you guys.....watch the replay and tell me who you think got 3rd........anywhere to go to see the photo for third.??????

[cj]

.....anywhere to go to see the photo for third.??????

Hobbs, New Mexico best I can find.

[Stillriledup]

I didnt see the race or the chart so I don't know who got 3rd but it looked like the grey horse was 3rd to me. (I just watched replay)

[appistappis]

they put the grey horse 4th and never showed the photo.

[NorCalGreg]

two questions for you guys.....watch the replay and tell me who you think got 3rd........anywhere to go to see the photo for third.??????

MUCHO RAPIDO was 3rd....don't know where or how , but you got hosed, my friend. Even the announcer called it that way. When they announced the stewards inquiry, I just figured you didn't hear that part, although for the life of me, couldnt see why they would take the 3rd place horse down.
Checked the chart and was surprised to find this:

FOLLOWING THE RACE THERE WAS A STEWARDS' INQUIRY INTO THE START AND UPON REVIEW IT WAS RULED THAT CC CARTER CAUSED HIS OWN DEMISE AND NO ACTION WAS TAKEN.

Well, appi,-hope ya didn't have much invested in the tri...probably wouldn't have paid that much anyway--I KNOW YOU JUST WANT YOUR DAMN MONEY --whatever it paid. Chalk it up to bush league racing in America. :bang:

[WoxFan]

The camera angle could be off, if you had a straight line from the camera at the at the finish line to when the 6 hits the finish line I would say that it isn't perpendicular, so its hard to get a good tell on who was 3rd.

[tanner12oz]

The camera angle could be off, if you had a straight line from the camera at the at the finish line to when the 6 hits the finish line I would say that it isn't perpendicular, so its hard to get a good tell on who was 3rd.

its 2015 and we still have at least a dozen threads a year about optical illusion like photo finishes where photos never seem to be available...other sports have 13523 cameras, drones and endless slo mo replays. We can't even can't a still photograph of the outcome of the race..

[Stillriledup]

they put the grey horse 4th and never showed the photo.

Hmmm.

Does anyone know if zia is an 'inside' or 'outside' angle?

If an outside horse gets 3rd and it doesn't appear to be 3rd to the naked eye, that means the camera is physically after the wire.

Go back and watch some other zia races and see if the outside horse is winning really close photos.

[cbp]

First time in a limo, Docter?

[johnhannibalsmith]

... We can't even can't a still photograph ...

It's a state-of-the-art racino. You just have to check out the "Winner's Gallery" to see the winning photos.

http://www.ziaparkcasino.com/Casino/Winners%20Gallery

[appistappis]

thats why they show you the photo after the race......they didn't

[Maximillion]

It's a state-of-the-art racino. You just have to check out the "Winner's Gallery" to see the winning photos.

http://www.ziaparkcasino.com/Casino/Winners%20Gallery

It looks like a real scenic track from the replays... :)

[NorCalGreg]

It looks like a real scenic track from the replays... :)

hahahaha....good one, Max. What a wasteland. What I want to know is, where did that woman that hit that $30K slot in the pic , get the money to play $25 dollar slots? Think she has a sugar daddy?

[chenoa]

hahahaha....good one, Max. What a wasteland. What I want to know is, where did that woman that hit that $30K slot in the pic , get the money to play $25 dollar slots? Think she has a sugar daddy?

The same woman hit 2 different jackpots according to the photos.

Something smells here!!! :rolleyes:

[Maximillion]

hahahaha....good one, Max. What a wasteland. What I want to know is, where did that woman that hit that $30K slot in the pic , get the money to play $25 dollar slots? Think she has a sugar daddy?

I was kind of half-watching a movie a couple of weeks ago...it was about the Atari video game company and how they buried thousands of unsold ET game cartridges somewhere in New Mexico...and I was wondering if they may be in the infield at Zia park.

[WoxFan]

The email for the New Mexico Racing Commission is: rc.info@state.nm.us

I emailed and asked for a show photo. If others do this, maybe they'll clear this up for us.

[EMD4ME]

Not to be a jerk but the inside horse got 3rd and it's not even close.

1) On the regular angle the 4 was in front before and a bit after the mirror.

2) The camera is placed a shade after the wire, hence the inside is always a bit ahead of what the optical illusion implies.

I'd be the 1st to tell you if something looked fishy....it doesn't look fishy.

[wisconsin]

Not to be a jerk but the inside horse got 3rd and it's not even close.

1) On the regular angle the 4 was in front before and a bit after the mirror.

2) The camera is placed a shade after the wire, hence the inside is always a bit ahead of what the optical illusion implies.

I'd be the 1st to tell you if something looked fishy....it doesn't look fishy.


Well they gave 3rd to the outside horse...

[EMD4ME]

Well they gave 3rd to the outside horse...

WOW, give me a second, let me wipe the egg off MY FACE!!!

My BAD, to say the least. I thought the argument was the other way...

Please forgive. In that case, LET THOSE BASTARDS HAVE IT!!!!

Write letters, call 10 x an hour like I do. Annoy them like they annoyed you.

Google the local paper's name. Make believe your a reporter doing an article on dirty stewards.....

Call and make believe your a bookie who was hit hard on the wrong combo and now realized why....

Give em HELL.

That wasn't even close.

[SG4]

Not to be a jerk but the inside horse got 3rd and it's not even close.


You're right on one aspect, it wasn't even close, considering the chart caller put this as a neck between 3rd & 4th - I don't know what necks look like in New Mexico, but they sure look different in the rest of the country. Camera angle must be short-changing the outside by a fair amount, which is curious cause it looks like a pretty straight on view at the finish.

[cj]

You're right on one aspect, it wasn't even close, considering the chart caller put this as a neck between 3rd & 4th - I don't know what necks look like in New Mexico, but they sure look different in the rest of the country. Camera angle must be short-changing the outside by a fair amount, which is curious cause it looks like a pretty straight on view at the finish.

Just FYI, chart callers don't determine margins at the finish. It is done with the photo finish equipment.

[EMD4ME]

You're right on one aspect, it wasn't even close, considering the chart caller put this as a neck between 3rd & 4th - I don't know what necks look like in New Mexico, but they sure look different in the rest of the country. Camera angle must be short-changing the outside by a fair amount, which is curious cause it looks like a pretty straight on view at the finish.

Man...I am full of errors tonight (insert jokes here). Never will post unless PA has my full attention.

The camera view (If a shade after the wire) shortchanges the position of the outside horse-I said the opposite.

Nevertheless, after watching the replay 10 more times and freezing it, I STILL don't see how the 6 got 3rd. Even with a weird angle. This camera placement does almost look dead on though.

What's ironic is you see the inside 3 horse holding off the outside 7 horse and you see the inside 4 holding off the outside 6 horse just a splt second later.

HOW IN THE WORLD DOES THAT CHART caller call that "the 6 by a neck" for third???? :bang:

[cj]

HOW IN THE WORLD DOES THAT CHART caller call that "the 6 by a neck" for third???? :bang:

See my last post.

Reported times were 46.324 for the 6 and 46.351 for the 4. Apparently .027 translates to a neck for the photo finish company at ZIA.

[EMD4ME]

Just FYI, chart callers don't determine margins at the finish. It is done with the photo finish equipment.

Sorry I missed this post CJ.

Then I need to rephrase my question....

How does that photo finish equipment capture the 6 getting third by a neck? :bang: :D

[EMD4ME]

The email for the New Mexico Racing Commission is: rc.info@state.nm.us

I emailed and asked for a show photo. If others do this, maybe they'll clear this up for us.

If they provide you with one, please post. I don't see any way on god's green earth, that the 6 got 3rd by a "NECK". Not any point, on any bob, throughout the 2 horses crossing the mirror.

Would love to see that photo.

[NorCalGreg]

You're right on one aspect, it wasn't even close, considering the chart caller put this as a neck between 3rd & 4th - I don't know what necks look like in New Mexico, but they sure look different in the rest of the country. Camera angle must be short-changing the outside by a fair amount, which is curious cause it looks like a pretty straight on view at the finish.

All ZIA and every other track in the world has to do-----and they easily can, is post the dang photo up of ANY close finish. And YES sg4, no way in holy heck was that any kind of NECK!!! That right there is what made me suspicious of the entire thing. I could maybe believe a deadheat.
I have on my wall, I'm looking at it right now...a photo of a triple dead-heat June 10th 1944, CARTER HANDICAP Aqueduct Racetrack. They still run that race to this day in NY.
Every race still gets photo'd. (Although today some may get PHOTO-SHOPPED)

[EMD4ME]

See my last post.

Reported times were 46.324 for the 6 and 46.351 for the 4. Apparently .027 translates to a neck for the photo finish company at ZIA.


LOL.....Man by those accounts....a horse can run about 40 necks in 1 second. That's about 8-10 lengths in 1 second. Simply amazing those ZIA park 870 YD horses don't attempt a 5F dash at Delmar :rolleyes: :D

I would love to see that photo....I would imagine it never surfaces.

[appistappis]

I sent a request to the track as to why there was not a photo shown.....so far, no reply.

[EMD4ME]

I sent a request to the track as to why there was not a photo shown.....so far, no reply.

Maybe they have thousands of fan mails coming in and it takes time to reply to each one? :lol:

In all seriousness, thanks for the update. When I went ballistic on EMD, they at least had someone from the state racing commission reach out to me in less than 24 hours (and I complained on a sunday night).

[Stillriledup]

What's interesting is in the same race, there was a close photo for win, the inside horse (who appears to be in front by a nose) gets the win, by a nose. But the inside grey horse who appears to get 3rd was the victim of an incredible "bias" favoring the outside runner.

If the outside horse (in the photo for 3rd n 4th)?got 3rd by a neck, and that's actually correct, than there's no way the inside horse (in the win photo) won the race by a nose considering he visually appeared to win by a nose.

[EMD4ME]

What's interesting is in the same race, there was a close photo for win, the inside horse (who appears to be in front by a nose) gets the win, by a nose. But the inside grey horse who appears to get 3rd was the victim of an incredible "bias" favoring the outside runner.

If the outside horse (in the photo for 3rd n 4th)?got 3rd by a neck, and that's actually correct, than there's no way the inside horse (in the win photo) won the race by a nose considering he visually appeared to win by a nose.

Exactly......It's amazing how messed up our naked eyes are. :rolleyes: :D

Thank god, we have the photo finish camera to help us out.

BTW, I have been clamoring for it and finally got it. NYRA got the finish line cam up at the SPA and BEL. Never been happier. Clear as day who won. Wish AQU had it but I'll take the progress.

[EMD4ME]

Now if anyone here can get Yonkers to even show you/us where the finish line is, then I'll really be impressed.

They do whatever they want over there. And who can blame them? Horse wins on the inside by a neck, they sometimes put up the inside. Horse wins by a neck on the rail and in the very next race, the outside horse is put up as if he won by a neck.

Don't bet harness but sometimes it's on the TV at home and I am amazed when they hit the wire as to who will be the winner. I sometimes see a horse lose by a half a horse but if he's on the outside, he has a CHANCE to be placed up over the inside horse.

I know 1 thing, whoever the announcer calls is always a winner. It's as if he "knows".

[Stillriledup]

Now if anyone here can get Yonkers to even show you/us where the finish line is, then I'll really be impressed.

They do whatever they want over there. And who can blame them? Horse wins on the inside by a neck, they sometimes put up the inside. Horse wins by a neck on the rail and in the very next race, the outside horse is put up as if he won by a neck.

Don't bet harness but sometimes it's on the TV at home and I am amazed when they hit the wire as to who will be the winner. I sometimes see a horse lose by a half a horse but if he's on the outside, he has a CHANCE to be placed up over the inside horse.

I know 1 thing, whoever the announcer calls is always a winner. It's as if he "knows".

I totally know what you mean about Yonkers, if two horses are within a half length of each other, you never can count your cash if you have the horse who APPEARS to have won until they put up the result.

[EMD4ME]

If I ever fly over the coo coo nest LOL :lol: :lol: , I'll drive up there (15 min away) and stand right at the "finish line" with my own HD camera, snap off pics off all races and compare them to their results.

Alas, I'm still rewatching last Friday's AQU replays, so don't think that day will come anytime soon. But if one day, I get the free time and have the urge, I'll do it. If I am wrong, I'll post how honest their photo's are. If right, I'll post for S and giggles.

[cj]

LOL.....Man by those accounts....a horse can run about 40 necks in 1 second. That's about 8-10 lengths in 1 second. Simply amazing those ZIA park 870 YD horses don't attempt a 5F dash at Delmar :rolleyes: :D

I would love to see that photo....I would imagine it never surfaces.

I agree, something doesn't seem right. It's Zia Park. As long as the slots churn nobody cares.

[EMD4ME]

I agree, something doesn't seem right. It's Zia Park. As long as the slots churn nobody cares.

Did you see the winner's gallery? OMG. Could they at least get a better camera person and HD camera? :lol:

I like the new track announcer. He usually calls Sam Houston and Retama. I hope he still is calling Sam Houston. One of my favorite smaller track meets. Except when I get zapped :eek: :lol: :lol:

[HuggingTheRail]

Did you see the winner's gallery? OMG. Could they at least get a better camera person and HD camera? :lol:

What? They just upgraded from an Etch-A-Sketch and now you want more??

[thaskalos]

It's a state-of-the-art racino. You just have to check out the "Winner's Gallery" to see the winning photos.

http://www.ziaparkcasino.com/Casino/Winners%20Gallery

Connie won TWICE! :ThmbUp:

[EMD4ME]

What? They just upgraded from an Etch-A-Sketch and now you want more??

:lol: :lol: :lol:

That was good!!!!

[appistappis]

update for anyone who might care......no response from zia, letter to nm racing comm just sent and got a reply from ray paullick.

[ultracapper]

That outside horse was really wide out on the track, maybe in the 7 or 8 path, and being that the camera is placed in front of the finish line, and looking at the angle of the mirror I'd guess maybe as much as 25 or 30 feet in front of the line, the outside horse would have looked behind at the finish. The further out the outside horse is, the further behind he'll look in a dead heat.

I froze it with the finish line running through the inside horse very close to the center of the saddle cloth, and figuring that the finish line runs 90 degrees dead perpendicular from the mirror, and taking the angle of the mirror into account, it looks to me that the finish line runs through the outside horse right where the tail meets the rump, meaning the outside horse is getting close to being more than a quarter length in front of the inside horse.

It's an atrocious camera angle, and there is zero reference on the outside rail to line up the finish line. I kind of have to really look close at that mirror to see what perpendicular is to the inside rail. Crap angle, and hate to be the rainmaker, but I think the outside horse got 3rd. It takes real concentration to not look at that mirror and think you're looking straight into it, but you're looking at it from a pretty severe angle. I'm thinking maybe that post that looks to be about 20 feet directly behind the mirror may be an extension of the finish line. If so, that gives you a great idea how severe the angle of the mirror is from our view.

[ultracapper]

That outside horse got 3rd for sure. I froze it at 1:00 and I got a perfect view of that post, and then the mirror, and then the break in the rail, and then the break in the "curb" just below the rail. That camera angle is AWEFUL!!! And considering just how far towards the middle of the track the outside horse is, it makes that view impossible to call the show horse in real time. But right where I have it frozen, at 1:00 exactly, it shows it very clearly.

Sorry to be the bummer, but it was kind of fun investigating it. Thanks for the challenge anyway.

I'd say that outside horse got 3rd by a neck, at least.

[NorCalGreg]

That outside horse got 3rd for sure. I froze it at 1:00 and I got a perfect view of that post, and then the mirror, and then the break in the rail, and then the break in the "curb" just below the rail. That camera angle is AWEFUL!!! And considering just how far towards the middle of the track the outside horse is, it makes that view impossible to call the show horse in real time. But right where I have it frozen, at 1:00 exactly, it shows it very clearly.

Sorry to be the bummer, but it was kind of fun investigating it. Thanks for the challenge anyway.

I'd say that outside horse got 3rd by a neck, at least.

Our beef really, UC....was that no photo is made available online. That would stop all this sniping, second guessing, conspiracy theorizing, and general grumbling about the horse racing "establishment" immediatly. At least for 2 seconds lol.

[appistappis]

That outside horse got 3rd for sure. I froze it at 1:00 and I got a perfect view of that post, and then the mirror, and then the break in the rail, and then the break in the "curb" just below the rail. That camera angle is AWEFUL!!! And considering just how far towards the middle of the track the outside horse is, it makes that view impossible to call the show horse in real time. But right where I have it frozen, at 1:00 exactly, it shows it very clearly.

Sorry to be the bummer, but it was kind of fun investigating it. Thanks for the challenge anyway.

I'd say that outside horse got 3rd by a neck, at least.

so your view is the inside horse won the photo for 1st, then this mysterious camera angle took over five yards later for the photo for 3rd

[EMD4ME]

so your view is the inside horse won the photo for 1st, then this mysterious camera angle took over five yards later for the photo for 3rd

Great point appistappis....

[Stillriledup]

Watch the 4th race on Nov 14th at Zia.

The very wide runner beats a far inside runner by the same exact margin in the chart (a neck) as was the margin stated that the mysterious photo horse allegedly defeated his rival by.

Unfortunately, in this nov 14 race, it visually appears like the outside horse was a neck in front at the wire (unlike the other guy who seemed to be a neck behind)

[EMD4ME]

Watch the 4th race on Nov 14th at Zia.

The very wide runner beats a far inside runner by the same exact margin in the chart (a neck) as was the margin stated that the mysterious photo horse allegedly defeated his rival by.

Unfortunately, in this nov 14 race, it visually appears like the outside horse was a neck in front at the wire (unlike the other guy who seemed to be a neck behind)

Fantastic research and point SRU....I watched it and you are 100% correct.

[picojim]

Race 8 today at Del mar (11-20)
I had the 9 win and place, looked like
It may have got up for 2nd,
Del mar website does not have a photo posted :mad:
https://www.dmtc.com/racing/results/photo-finishes/2015/11/20

[EMD4ME]

Race 8 today at Del mar (11-20)
I had the 9 win and place, looked like
It may have got up for 2nd,
Del mar website does not have a photo posted :mad:
https://www.dmtc.com/racing/results/photo-finishes/2015/11/20

That is frustrating. I hear ya. All photos should be up quickly, for all spots.

[Stillriledup]

Race 8 today at Del mar (11-20)
I had the 9 win and place, looked like
It may have got up for 2nd,
Del mar website does not have a photo posted :mad:
https://www.dmtc.com/racing/results/photo-finishes/2015/11/20

I think DMRs camera is before the wire which gives the inside the advantage, you have to visually look like you are a full neck ahead to win the photo by a nose if you're the outside horse Tvg also showed a low camera angle and you can see the inside horse was a clear 2nd.

[ultracapper]

Our beef really, UC....was that no photo is made available online. That would stop all this sniping, second guessing, conspiracy theorizing, and general grumbling about the horse racing "establishment" immediatly. At least for 2 seconds lol.

I agree 100% photos should be up and available as soon as possible. There shouldn't be any guessing on the public's part, and the "establishment" should make every effort at transparency.

[ultracapper]

so your view is the inside horse won the photo for 1st, then this mysterious camera angle took over five yards later for the photo for 3rd

I didn't investigate the 1st 2 finishers. I'll take a look at that one in a bit. The real problem here, besides the fact it looks like it's going to damn near take an act of Congress to get the photo, is that camera angle. It must be at an angle of somewhere between 10 and 15 degrees from the finish line. Horrible, horrible placement.

[ultracapper]

I froze the frame at least 10 times trying to get the 1st 2 finishers as close at the wire as I could. The best one I had, I could see the mirror and the break in the curb below the rail, and the inside horse's head was past the finish line, and the outside horse only had about half his head past the finish line. It looked to me as best as I could get it frozen and lined up that the inside horse was about half a head in front.

It's just a shit camera angle. They need to put the photos up. What the hell reason would keep any track from not putting up the photos, aside from laziness and/or fraud?

[Stillriledup]

I froze the frame at least 10 times trying to get the 1st 2 finishers as close at the wire as I could. The best one I had, I could see the mirror and the break in the curb below the rail, and the inside horse's head was past the finish line, and the outside horse only had about half his head past the finish line. It looked to me as best as I could get it frozen and lined up that the inside horse was about half a head in front.

It's just a shit camera angle. They need to put the photos up. What the hell reason would keep any track from not putting up the photos, aside from laziness and/or fraud?

Or, if you put up the wrong number and just figured the 'general public' would go away if you just ignore the e mails and calls.

[ultracapper]

Watch the 4th race on Nov 14th at Zia.

The very wide runner beats a far inside runner by the same exact margin in the chart (a neck) as was the margin stated that the mysterious photo horse allegedly defeated his rival by.

Unfortunately, in this nov 14 race, it visually appears like the outside horse was a neck in front at the wire (unlike the other guy who seemed to be a neck behind)

Yep. That one is no doubt.

It's been kind of interesting looking at it all. They really need to post their photos, and they need to post them immediately so there's no perception of ill-doings.

[picojim]

I think DMRs camera is before the wire which gives the inside the advantage, you have to visually look like you are a full neck ahead to win the photo by a nose if you're the outside horse Tvg also showed a low camera angle and you can see the inside horse was a clear 2nd.

Thanks foe the info, I was able to get a photo through email from Del mar

[Stillriledup]

Thanks foe the info, I was able to get a photo through email from Del mar

No problem!

Del mar had nothing to hide, so they sent the photo.

Zia on the other hand..... :eek:

[no breathalyzer]

Thanks foe the info, I was able to get a photo through email from Del mar

i'm baffled how clear this photo is

[sharkie187]

I didn't investigate the 1st 2 finishers. I'll take a look at that one in a bit. The real problem here, besides the fact it looks like it's going to damn near take an act of Congress to get the photo, is that camera angle. It must be at an angle of somewhere between 10 and 15 degrees from the finish line. Horrible, horrible placement.

Australia, Hong Kong, and Japan show all photos live on their video stream. Aussie racing stream has it ready to show seconds, literally seconds, after they cross the wire. So if these countries can do that, why can't the US?

[kevb]

Fear of litigation?

[Stillriledup]

Any update on this Zia photo?

[tanner12oz]

i'm baffled how clear this photo is

Hollywood was great with photos..posted on online anytime things were close for any placing...arkansas on the other hand....good luck

[appistappis]

zia park, no reply
new mex racing comm, no reply
ray paulick, no interest

[NorCalGreg]

"let the fools have their tar tar sauce."



...No updates, but suddenly have a craving for fish sticks. Got a box in the freezer I've been saving for.. you know, when company comes over.

[EMD4ME]

zia park, no reply
new mex racing comm, no reply
ray paulick, no interest
appistappis....can you say APATHY?

Sadly that's what racing ownership has for us bettors. Sad.

[Stillriledup]

zia park, no reply
new mex racing comm, no reply
ray paulick, no interest

Not surprising.