Was Sears 15-Day Suspension Justified? [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

LottaKash

11-16-2015, 01:33 PM

I think it was a blatant miscarriage of justice.

Comments please.

http://www.harnesslink.com/International/FOR-RELEASE--Meadowlands-To-Require-Training-Information

I totally agree Biscuit...

I really think that the "White Knight" got screwed...(If you remember, Gural has already got it in for this guy, as of a couple of years ago on..)

This horse, altho going off at $.50 on the Dollar, hasn't won a race since September...And, in the Magicians last race, she ran an even 4th place finish, while never gaining or losing lengths (3-1/2) in the lane, while running midpack in that race, versus basically the same set of girl horses... The race before, definitely, a worthy try against the International Trot field, racing at a Mile and a 1/4 at Yonkers, but she also faded and lost valuable ground thru the lane in that one...So for me at least based on that, her last two starts suggests that she is way off the form that allowed her to win 10 of 16 races this year....I believe that she is the classiest and the best of this good lot of girl trotters, but, not in this case...

The trainer said to go ez, on the engine, and that is what is Sears did, and the horse closed very late during the fastest part of the mile gained a bunch of ground late, so based on her "CURRENT FORM", what more was to be expected ?... A jog by five, haha..

So, who the heck is Gural to tell drivers and trainers now, how to race their horses the way the odds suggest...Odds On or not, I think he is wrong and has gone too far in this case...

When track owners get to decide who and how the horses are to be run, well, than that is way too much, if you ask me...

Hey, I know Gural is trying to get things right in this game of ours, which has been tainted and looked the other way for so long, but imo, in this instance, Gural is just flat out wrong... At least from this handicappers chair....

Personally, if you are a decent enough capper, I don't think that you would have put much faith in Bee A Magican either....Or would you @1/2 odds haha ?... Plus it was opening nite, and the front end was pretty much the place to be on that nite, so BAM not being in the best of shape to begin with, and not near the lead, was pretty much up against it, the whole way round, on that nite....

I am "straddled" on the fence about Jeff Gural and his motives these days, but this one tips my balance off, towards the "not liking him" side of the fence...

Ray2000

11-16-2015, 01:51 PM

I'm with you guys on this one, Sea, Kash,... let the trainers train, ...No infraction...but I like the idea of letting the public know what the back siders know all along.
from Harness link
all trainers that have entered horses to race at The Meadowlands will be required to supply a comment regarding how their horse trained a minimum of 72 hours prior to the race day and that report will be included in the live race program and will be accessible in the "race review" portion of The Meadowlands website

Also Johnny
Maybe this Paulick Report will tip you to the other side of the "fence".

Gural does seem to be on the bettors side...

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/enough-is-enough-gural-urges-tracks-to-step-up-drug-enforcement/

LottaKash

11-16-2015, 02:05 PM

I'm with you guys on this one, Sea, Kash,... let the trainers train, ...No infraction...but I like the idea of letting the public know what the back siders know all along.

Ray I know that you were a "back sider" at one time or another, as was with me...

So, I don't know about you Ray, but I must have lost a boatload-of-money, overhearing and listening to the connections talking at breakfast, at the track kitchen... :D

Given that, other than trying to catch a trainer in a lie, I am not sure that this idea would lead anywhere, or create anything for the player, other than confusion...

Heck, I worked for a trainer, and I won't mention his name, and he is dead anyway, but I lost a lot of faith in him when I was a groom, when he double crossed all his connections with a go on some other cheater's hoss....So I wouldn't believe very much in the way the these guys would try to enlighten up us "frontsiders" with their comments on form and fitness...haha..

If Lou Pena was allowed to race there, I wonder what he would say about his horses ?..haha :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stillriledup

11-16-2015, 02:27 PM

I think that this sends a bad message and here's why.

These top harness catch drivers try pretty hard all the time for the most part, this was probably an example of a horse being driven like a 10-1 shot, so that's on the betting public for betting a horse who is obviously off form. To me, it's hard to ask connections to be aggressive with a horse that might fold up shop and stop if used hard, especially when they weren't given the option to make a public address announcement that the horse will be driven a certain way.

Bettors who are wrongly complaining to management about a lackluster drive shouldn't get rewarded by mgmt for making a horrendous wager.

Stillriledup

11-16-2015, 02:35 PM

There's a way to judge if a horse is off form or races substandard to what they can do when they are at their best, handicappers can find this through diligent race replay watching and overall handicapping talent, I'm pretty sure that bettors who knew this horse in question wasnt any good don't want the trainer or driver telling the world the horse is no good or is being driven a certain way due to the connections feeling the horse is an outsider.

Also, what happens if these connections gave off 'negative' info and the horse wins? Than it looks like they sandbagged which opens an entirely new can of worms.

Are we now going to have drivers REALLY stiffing horses because they might get a suspension for winning with a horse the connections said was 'no good' before the race? :bang:

11-16-2015, 08:00 PM

Off form or not, that guy made no attempt whatsoever to win the race. Bettors deserve better.

LottaKash

11-16-2015, 09:52 PM

Off form or not, that guy made no attempt whatsoever to win the race. Bettors deserve better.

I disagree CJ, she ran the same kind of race as in her last...In fact it was better near closing time...

The 1/2-odds, well imo, that is on the dummies that were betting with their hearts, when they made her the fave based on her "ability level" from past races, rather than her current form...That is how I see it...

Otherwise, how is an out of form horse supposed to race according to you, saying that, in or out of form doesn't matter ?....

Blatant Bettor error here, is all I see..

A really great race to bet against, imo...

11-16-2015, 10:18 PM

I disagree CJ, she ran the same kind of race as in her last...In fact it was better near closing time...

The 1/2-odds, well imo, that is on the dummies that were betting with their hearts, when they made her the fave based on her "ability level" from past races, rather than her current form...That is how I see it...

Otherwise, how is an out of form horse supposed to race according to you, saying that, in or out of form doesn't matter ?....

Blatant Bettor error here, is all I see..

A really great race to bet against, imo...

We'll see how out of form she is this week, right?

LottaKash

11-16-2015, 11:06 PM

We'll see how out of form she is this week, right?

CJ, I think I have read where you used to play Harness, so if that is true, then I will ask you this...Judging by BAM's past performance lines from her two most recent races, would you say that, that is the form of a horse who should perform well tonite., with special note at 1/2 odds..?

I know on the T-bred side of things, those running lines could possibly be a harbinger of better things to come, but from my own experience on the harness side of things, that I could never, with good conscience, make a horse 1/2 in the wagering, based on the running lines of those races... Lines like that, even for a horse at the very top of her class, would never instill much confidence with me...

Of course, as is my own observation(s) thruout the years, that BAM may improve dramatically in her next outing vs. these same ones... As that is how it is with the very best ones in Harness, they can improve rapidly and in much less time as with the lower class horses can... Given that, I would give her a better chance to improve markedly, perhaps next week, than I had given her this past week...

She didn't look good on the paper, nor that good on raceday either, and she raced that way, is all I saw...I just don't see the foul here...

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp137/lottakash/c4045204-ba49-45ac-89cc-aec26e9f9b40_zpsd8ordc54.png (http://s405.photobucket.com/user/lottakash/media/c4045204-ba49-45ac-89cc-aec26e9f9b40_zpsd8ordc54.png.html)

Stillriledup

11-17-2015, 01:49 AM

LottaKash

11-17-2015, 02:22 AM

There's no foul in real life, there's just a foul of perception according to the man who doled out the 15 dayer.

Also there's 'history' w Gural and Sears, if this was John Campbell, would the same thing have happened?

Good question SRU... :D

I'd bet that if it was JC, nothing would be said or come of it.... Me personally, I think that Gural just has it in for Sears, plain and simple... :eek:

Plus, 15 days doesn't sound like much, but since M1 only runs 2 days a week, that would amount to nearly two months of no drives at that track...

Gural, little by little, is establishing himself as a bit of a "tyrant", more than a fair and open minded track owner with the good of the player at heart... I get that based on his bias' and his silly actions towards certain parties....

Sea Biscuit

11-17-2015, 03:53 AM

CJ, I think I have read where you used to play Harness, so if that is true, then I will ask you this...Judging by BAM's past performance lines from her two most recent races, would you say that, that is the form of a horse who should perform well tonite., with special note at 1/2 odds..?

I know on the T-bred side of things, those running lines could possibly be a harbinger of better things to come, but from my own experience on the harness side of things, that I could never, with good conscience, make a horse 1/2 in the wagering, based on the running lines of those races... Lines like that, even for a horse at the very top of her class, would never instill much confidence with me...

Of course, as is my own observation(s) thruout the years, that BAM may improve dramatically in her next outing vs. these same ones... As that is how it is with the very best ones in Harness, they can improve rapidly and in much less time as with the lower class horses can... Given that, I would give her a better chance to improve markedly, perhaps next week, than I had given her this past week...

She didn't look good on the paper, nor that good on raceday either, and she raced that way, is all I saw...I just don't see the foul here...

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp137/lottakash/c4045204-ba49-45ac-89cc-aec26e9f9b40_zpsd8ordc54.png (http://s405.photobucket.com/user/lottakash/media/c4045204-ba49-45ac-89cc-aec26e9f9b40_zpsd8ordc54.png.html)

John Looking at the PPs BAM should not have been the favorite in the race after 2 back to back clunkers as the even choice and the 3 weeks layoff. Shake it Sherry was prolly the fittest and the horse to beat in the race and she won it. The people who bet BAM as the 50 cents favorite deserve to lose their money.

Gural is trying to fix things which are not broken. His asking trainers to file reports on each and every horse was another booboo quickly shot down by the the SBOANJ. Mr Gural should be consulting knowledgeable folks in the business instead of listening to irate gamblers.

robman65

11-17-2015, 06:03 AM

Bee A Magician has not been the same for quite a while now. Gets overbet everytime she races. She wasn't going to win that race regardless of the drive. The only mistake Sears made was not leaving the gate with her. The race was over when they got to the quarter in. 28:1. He pulled just after the half but two others jumped in front of them and she was simply not going to close into that fast final half. Period. No to the original thread question. He deserved nothing more than a fine. Period!! I compliment The Meadowlands for buckling down on their racing product. Only wish other tracks would follow suit. Hm mm like say WEG perhaps.

jtschmidt

11-17-2015, 11:26 AM

Sears listed for Friday:

RACE 12 - Meadowlands - NJ - November 20, 2015
Conditions:TVG - MARES OPEN - FINAL
Gait: Trot Purse: $200,000 Class: TVG Mares Distance: 1 Mile Planned Post Time: 10:40 PM

PP Horse Med 2015 Year to Date Driver Trainer ML Base
Sts W P S Time Earnings Stable Odds Claim
1 White Becomes Her L 20 3 3 4 1:53.3S $50463 Brett Miller Benoit Baillargeon
2 Harley Momma L 16 1 2 0 Q1:55.2M $40691 Scott Zeron Noel Daley
3 Handover Belle L 16 4 2 0 1:51.1M $75860 Yannick Gingras Ron Burke
4 Bee A Magician L 17 10 4 0 1:51.1S $931345 Brian Sears R. Nifty Norman
5 Shake It Cerry L 15 4 3 3 1:51.4M $324155 David Miller Jimmy Takter
6 Classic Martine L 15 3 3 2 1:52.2F $170935 Tim Tetrick Steve Elliott
↑ Top of Page

11-17-2015, 11:40 AM

CJ, I think I have read where you used to play Harness, so if that is true, then I will ask you this...Judging by BAM's past performance lines from her two most recent races, would you say that, that is the form of a horse who should perform well tonite., with special note at 1/2 odds..?

I know on the T-bred side of things, those running lines could possibly be a harbinger of better things to come, but from my own experience on the harness side of things, that I could never, with good conscience, make a horse 1/2 in the wagering, based on the running lines of those races... Lines like that, even for a horse at the very top of her class, would never instill much confidence with me...

Of course, as is my own observation(s) thruout the years, that BAM may improve dramatically in her next outing vs. these same ones... As that is how it is with the very best ones in Harness, they can improve rapidly and in much less time as with the lower class horses can... Given that, I would give her a better chance to improve markedly, perhaps next week, than I had given her this past week...

She didn't look good on the paper, nor that good on raceday either, and she raced that way, is all I saw...I just don't see the foul here...

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp137/lottakash/c4045204-ba49-45ac-89cc-aec26e9f9b40_zpsd8ordc54.png (http://s405.photobucket.com/user/lottakash/media/c4045204-ba49-45ac-89cc-aec26e9f9b40_zpsd8ordc54.png.html)

So she is out of form, but if she suddenly has a reversal this week it isn't because he didn't try last week?

This was a 1-2 shot that wasn't given any chance to win, period. No effort at all was made to impact the race. I'm in no way trying to argue she was a good bet. I'm saying you have to try. Did you see the fractions? That is bad. This is the last thing harness racing needs. It is a blip on the radar these days as it is, even less so than thoroughbreds.

11-17-2015, 11:43 AM

John Looking at the PPs BAM should not have been the favorite in the race after 2 back to back clunkers as the even choice and the 3 weeks layoff. Shake it Sherry was prolly the fittest and the horse to beat in the race and she won it. The people who bet BAM as the 50 cents favorite deserve to lose their money.

Gural is trying to fix things which are not broken. His asking trainers to file reports on each and every horse was another booboo quickly shot down by the the SBOANJ. Mr Gural should be consulting knowledgeable folks in the business instead of listening to irate gamblers.

How has listening to the knowledgeable folks in the business worked out for the game?

LottaKash

11-17-2015, 12:17 PM

Bee A Magician has not been the same for quite a while now. Gets overbet everytime she races. She wasn't going to win that race regardless of the drive. The only mistake Sears made was not leaving the gate with her.

He deserved nothing more than a fine. Period!! .

Robman, I am glad that you posted, but I've got to say that I am a bit confused by it too...

On the one hand, you agree/admit that BAM is out of shape, and overbet, and that she wasn't going to win that race, but end your post saying that Sears deserved nothing more than a fine....Sounds a bit fence straddely, no ?

Besides why was Sears obliged to leave quickly, when he/she hadn't done so in her previous two races ?... I don't get that part...

Over the years I would like to think, that I have become quite adept at interpreting the value and significance of most running lines which in turn guide's me in forming my opinion about a trainers possible intentions on raceday...Given that, I totally disagree with this foolish judgement from Gural.... Those running lines sucked and revealed, to me at least, much about her current form and her ability to contend early in that race in question....

Gural is just too full of himself lately I think...

This is Gestapo Racing, "you should have left the gate quickly, and you failed to do so, so I am suspending you for 15 days"...Imagine that ?... That's just what happened here, all the same, imo...

mrroyboy

11-17-2015, 01:48 PM

Agree John. Sears didn't do anything wrong.

Stillriledup

11-17-2015, 03:16 PM

Harness racing has a very fine line when it comes to the perception of 'trying'.

If 'trying' is either leaving the gate or pulling the right line at some part in the mile, than arent 2, 3 or more horses 'not trying' in every single race?

Every race in harness racing for the most part you have a couple of drivers who don't leave the gate and don't get into the flow, but, bettors are fine with this because they know its part of the game.

The key here is the 'obligation' by the driver to drive a certain way if someone else says you're the most likely winner.

There was a Filion who got in trouble for sitting the rail with a 1-5 in Canada (sea biscuit, help me remember this one) and he got a fine? I don't remember the punishment, the horse was Vance bahamas or something like that, but i think in the bahama case, that horse was sharp and 'couldn't lose' so maybe that was a factor.

What I don't like about the punishment to sears is that wht happens if a favorite doesn't warm up well in the drivers mind, you don't want to butcher the horse who is 'off' just to appease the public, it's up to the public to not bet horses who are off form and then expect an 'in form' drive.

I believe this punishment would be justified if Sears was a habitual offender of 'not trying' but if he drives to win almost all the time, don't we give him the benefit of the doubt that the favorite he's driving is no good and if she was in top form she wouldn't have gotten the same steer?

There's always 'next week' in harness racing, sometimes horses need to be driven a certain way, today's top catch drivers, if anything, over race their stock, there's very few guys in the top 10 or 20 in purse earnings in the sport who aren't on full blast with almost every drive.

Sea Biscuit

11-17-2015, 06:37 PM

There was a Filion who got in trouble for sitting the rail with a 1-5 in Canada (sea biscuit, help me remember this one) and he got a fine? I don't remember the punishment, the horse was Vance bahamas or something like that, but i think in the bahama case, that horse was sharp and 'couldn't lose' so maybe that was a factor.

Yeah I remember that race. Here is the ruling for Sylvain in the race

FILION,SYLVAIN R
ORC - DID DRIVE THE HORSE IN A INCONSISTENT MANNER
Commission Rule Number : 22.11
Date Issued : 15-NOV-2014
Total Due : 500.00
Violation Occurred : Race 3 at WOODBINE RACETRACK on 10-NOV-2014 horse VANCE BAYAMA
Suspended From 23-NOV-2014 To 25-NOV-2014 (Driving Suspension)

The funny thing about this affair was in his next start Sylvain takes Vance Bayama to the top and dies in the stretch to finish out of money.

It would be very interesting to know how Sears drives BAM in the final and where she finishes.

Stillriledup

11-17-2015, 07:31 PM

Ill add this in defense of Sears and anyone else who might get punished for 'lack of effort'

In my experience, drivers who are on horses who are really in form and ready to race their best are always give a shot, they're driven like major contenders by the sports elite catch drivers.

The suspension to Sears is essentially suggesting that on occasion, the guy won't try to win. Today's top catch drivers aren't top catch drivers because they're driving champion horses to 'lose'.

The 64 dollar question is this. Did Sears try to lose on purpose or did he drive the horse according to the way she needed to be driven given all the circumstances?

You would have a hard time convincing me he stiffed a top horse like this, top drivers aren't stiffing 3 million dollar earners, that's just not going to happen.

chenoa

11-17-2015, 10:15 PM

Just watched the replay, I thought I was watching a Woodbine race, nobody pulled until after the half. :lol: :lol: :lol:

mrroyboy

11-18-2015, 03:43 PM

The 64 dollar question is this. Did Sears try to lose on purpose or did he drive the horse according to the way she needed to be driven given all the circumstances?

That's exactly what Sears did. Drove the horse the way it should have been.

]

Stillriledup

11-18-2015, 04:30 PM

If the perception is that harness racing is 'fixed' than a suspension like this only helps if the perception of fixing in harness racing is real.

If harness racing is a lot more honest than the perception, and Sears just drove this horse the way she needed to be driven, than this suspension hurts the game and the image it's trying to present (and clean up)

If there is any crookedness in harness racing it's most likely coming from the trainers and lower rung drivers, it's not coming from elite catch drivers driving horses who have won millions in purse money.

11-18-2015, 05:26 PM

mrroyboy

11-18-2015, 07:48 PM

No just didn't drive aggressively. By the time everybody realized what was happening Cerry was long gone.
Some of us bet Shake it Cerry that night because we anticipated exactly what happened.

Sea Biscuit

11-18-2015, 09:52 PM

Lose on purpose? He certainly didn't try to win.

Didn't try to win?

This trainer said Bee was tying up and instructed Sears not to race her on top. Nothing wrong with that.

It was a 6 horse field and as often happens in short fields it was a slow paced affair.

Here are the race fractions

28.1 57.1 (29.0) 1:25.4 (28.3) 1:53.3 (27.4)

Sears did well to finish 4th in that slow paced race. From the 3/4 to the finish he passed 2 horses and gained 1 length in the stretch in that fast last qtr (27.4).

That 15 day suspension to Sears was a big miscarriage of justice which was done to appease crying/losing gamblers only.

Harness racing has been a graveyard for off the pace types as long as I can remember. This sorta thing happens on a daily basis at every track in NA.

The incompetent judge who handed down the 15 day suspension should be fired and the suspension rescinded.

Stillriledup

11-18-2015, 10:06 PM

I think there's a big difference between didnt try at ALL to didnt try hard enough. In harness racing, many times horses find themselves in poor positions to win, but that doesn't mean the driver is specifically trying to lose.

11-18-2015, 10:59 PM

Didn't try to win?

This trainer said Bee was tying up and instructed Sears not to race her on top. Nothing wrong with that.

It was a 6 horse field and as often happens in short fields it was a slow paced affair.

Here are the race fractions

28.1 57.1 (29.0) 1:25.4 (28.3) 1:53.3 (27.4)

Sears did well to finish 4th in that slow paced race. From the 3/4 to the finish he passed 2 horses and gained 1 length in the stretch in that fast last qtr (27.4).

That 15 day suspension to Sears was a big miscarriage of justice which was done to appease crying/losing gamblers only.

Harness racing has been a graveyard for off the pace types as long as I can remember. This sorta thing happens on a daily basis at every track in NA.

The incompetent judge who handed down the 15 day suspension should be fired and the suspension rescinded.

With those fractions it seemed very odd that the horse was four wide early and then dropped back. She had every chance to go.

As for trainer speak, I believe that about as much as I do t-bred trainers. He was covering for the driver. They didn't care about that race.

baconswitchfarm

11-18-2015, 11:24 PM

If there is any crookedness in harness racing it's not coming from elite catch drivers driving horses who have won millions in purse money.
:lol:

Sea Biscuit

11-21-2015, 11:56 AM

Sea Biscuit

11-21-2015, 12:02 PM

:1a:
As for trainer speak, I believe that about as much as I do t-bred trainers. He was covering for the driver. They didn't care about that race.

cj Do you still think the trainer was covering up for the driver?

Last nights BAM's poor 2nd place finish where she could hardly keep up with the leader was a slap in the face of Gural and the stupid judge who gave Sears the 15 day suspension.

LottaKash

11-21-2015, 12:40 PM

Last night's BAM's race proved one thing. Sears got a bum deal when he was given a 15 day suspension.

Shame again on the judge for handing down that suspension and shame on Gural for trying to teach drivers how to do their business.

That's it Biscuit, she was lucky to get second in last nite's race, over the 13/1 shot who just missed for that place spot after a valiant effort, as BAM was huffin & apuffin away, just to keep up...

She just hasn't been able to run to the best of her ability lately....Not even for $200K... She was all out to not win..

Hey, all most of us have to go by, are replays, and what is on the page of the printed past performances, so for me, going by what I know and saw , she was just "OOF" out of form... And the connections flat out got screwed for that reality...

Given that, I still maintain that J.Gural is too full of himself at times...

Stillriledup

11-21-2015, 12:45 PM

I applaud the effort of Gural in trying to clean up the game, but this went too far. also, I have to question the 'vendetta' angle here, if this was John Campbell, no way he gets 15 days much less 1.

11-27-2015, 04:42 PM

:1a:

cj Do you still think the trainer was covering up for the driver?

Last nights BAM's poor 2nd place finish where she could hardly keep up with the leader was a slap in the face of Gural and the stupid judge who gave Sears the 15 day suspension.

I was on vacation and didn't even bring a computer for the first time in years so I haven't seen it yet. I'll give it a watch.

Wasn't she much better in this race though than in the race in question? I mean it was a bigger, better race and she did finish 2nd, not a no try 4th.