Is the run over for Seattle?

[Valuist]

Its been a great run. 2012-2014. One can make a case they were the best team in all three of those seasons (yes, I believe they were better than the Niners in 2012, and the Niners were favored in the SB). So they got close in 2012, they reached the top in 2013, were there to repeat last year, but let it slip away. Now the team is showing clear cracks; 5 blown 4th quarter leads. The team used to pride itself on its killer instinct; clearly what is missing this year.

When I look at some of the Super Bowl teams anchored by great defenses; the 1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens come to mind. Neither team was able to repeat. The same cast may be there for the most part, but some of the hunger is gone. I think that's happening here, and it could get ugly for Seattle before it gets better.

[thaskalos]

Seattle is finished...as are the Packers. It's a brand new world out there...

[Stillriledup]

What's different personnelwise w Seattle besides lack of hunger?

[Valuist]

What's different personnelwise w Seattle besides lack of hunger?

I could say the same thing about the 2002 Rams. It was mostly the same cast. Should be the same results, right? Wrong. I think the talent is so balanced throughout the NFL, that things like a strong team losing its hunger becomes big.

Being a Bears fan in the mid 80s, we took for granted we'd win 2 or 3 Super Bowls. We got the first, and the team was even better defensively in the 1986 regular season. But we got ambushed by Washington in the playoffs. It was a fluke, right? Played them again in 1988 and same result. Maybe the initial result wasn't a fluke. Maybe the Bears were fat and happy and too busy doing commercials and music videos.

Like Belichek or not, have to give them credit for the sustained run of excellent play. Toss out a couple of great catches by Giant receivers, and they'd have 5 Super Bowls since 2003.

As for the personnel, I think Seattle misses Max Unger more than they realize. The talking heads rarely talk about the guys on the O-line, but they are clearly important.

[thaskalos]

What Arizona did tonight is practically unheard of when you consider the supposed quality of the team that they were playing. Carson Palmer threw an interception in the end-zone from 10 yards out...and then handed Seattle 14 points on two strip-sacks. And Arizona still won the game handily...IN SEATTLE.

The only thing lying ahead for Seattle is mediocrity.

[thaskalos]

I could say the same thing about the 2002 Rams. It was mostly the same cast. Should be the same results, right? Wrong. I think the talent is so balanced throughout the NFL, that things like a strong team losing its hunger becomes big.

Being a Bears fan in the mid 80s, we took for granted we'd win 2 or 3 Super Bowls. We got the first, and the team was even better defensively in the 1986 regular season. But we got ambushed by Washington in the playoffs. It was a fluke, right? Played them again in 1988 and same result. Maybe the initial result wasn't a fluke. Maybe the Bears were fat and happy and too busy doing commercials and music videos.

Like Belichek or not, have to give them credit for the sustained run of excellent play. Toss out a couple of great catches by Giant receivers, and they'd have 5 Super Bowls since 2003.

As for the personnel, I think Seattle misses Max Unger more than they realize. The talking heads rarely talk about the guys on the O-line, but they are clearly important.

I watched a sports documentary about a decade ago, where a round-table discussion about the Bears took place featuring Mike Ditka, Dan Hampton and Willie Gault. Hampton was mocking Ditka...claiming that, with "better coaching"...the Bears could have won three Super Bowls. An obviously agitated Ditka shot back:

"We WOULD have won three Super Bowls...if I was able to keep you and McMichael out of the BARS." :)

[Stillriledup]

I could say the same thing about the 2002 Rams. It was mostly the same cast. Should be the same results, right? Wrong. I think the talent is so balanced throughout the NFL, that things like a strong team losing its hunger becomes big.

Being a Bears fan in the mid 80s, we took for granted we'd win 2 or 3 Super Bowls. We got the first, and the team was even better defensively in the 1986 regular season. But we got ambushed by Washington in the playoffs. It was a fluke, right? Played them again in 1988 and same result. Maybe the initial result wasn't a fluke. Maybe the Bears were fat and happy and too busy doing commercials and music videos.

Like Belichek or not, have to give them credit for the sustained run of excellent play. Toss out a couple of great catches by Giant receivers, and they'd have 5 Super Bowls since 2003.

As for the personnel, I think Seattle misses Max Unger more than they realize. The talking heads rarely talk about the guys on the O-line, but they are clearly important.

I don't know if the Pats 'run' is all legit, how can a team always be good no matter what, injuries, great players leaving, you have Wilfork and Welker and other greats and these guys just keep getting replaced and winning it just makes no sense to me that there's never a bump in the Road with these guys, it's almost impossible to believe, you got Brady who's old by football standards and he's playing like a bionic man, just makes no sense.

[Kash$]

Media couldn't wait to put Wilson in the HOF...Want to build your franchise around Wilson now?

[ManU918]

Media couldn't wait to put Wilson in the HOF...Want to build your franchise around Wilson now?

I 100% agree with this. All the noise about Russell Wilson has been pathetic the past few seasons. He was and I suppose still is an above average game manager. He is nowhere near and never will be an elite QB. I give his representatives credit. They knew the team would start to crumble and got the organization to give him $60 million guaranteed a year early.

[ManU918]

I don't know if the Pats 'run' is all legit, how can a team always be good no matter what, injuries, great players leaving, you have Wilfork and Welker and other greats and these guys just keep getting replaced and winning it just makes no sense to me that there's never a bump in the Road with these guys, it's almost impossible to believe, you got Brady who's old by football standards and he's playing like a bionic man, just makes no sense.

One of the greatest if not the greatest QB ever + having one of the best offensive lines year in and year out + a spread system that is hard defend even with mediocre WR's due to Brady/OLine + Hernandez and now Gronk + FG kickers that don't miss + Playing in a shit division + A respectable defense (4th in the league this year in scoring) + Having a head coach that is better than every other head coach = Why the Patriots are successful...

BTW there isn't a franchise I hate more in all of sport that NE... But its impossible not to respect them.

[burnsy]

Seattle just can't block, their line sucks. Can't pass protect, can't run as good.

Green Bay is having problems too, scoring wise and defense.

The NFC may be seeing a change of the guard which has been coming for a couple years. The Cardinals and Panthers look pretty damn good right now. Of course, there are 7 weeks to go. They've been on the fringe the last couple of years....both teams.

Peyton is at the end, his run is just about over. His arm may not make it through the season. Funny how he's "hurt" at about the same time the last couple years. He's old, he's sore, his arm is falling off. He's done.

[cj]

Russell Wilson is similar to Joe Flacco. Decent enough QB but not a superstar...just paid like one.

[Valuist]

Odd that Wilson is bearing the brunt of the criticism, except for the one post who said Seattle can't block (which is true). Look at the receivers he's had to work with. Nobody would ever call Doug Baldwin or any of the others an All-Pro. He's got Graham now but Graham doesn't seem like he's got the new system figured out.

They've blown FIVE 4th quarter leads. That is on the defense. Against Jimmy Clausen, Colin Kaepernick, Matt Stafford and Matt Cassel, the Seahawks D is allowing 6 points per game. Against Rodgers, Nick Foles, Dalton, Newton and Palmer, Seattle is allowing 31 points per game. The 2012-2014 Seahawks would never have allowed that to happen.

[Valuist]

One of the greatest if not the greatest QB ever + having one of the best offensive lines year in and year out + a spread system that is hard defend even with mediocre WR's due to Brady/OLine + Hernandez and now Gronk + FG kickers that don't miss + Playing in a shit division + A respectable defense (4th in the league this year in scoring) + Having a head coach that is better than every other head coach = Why the Patriots are successful...

BTW there isn't a franchise I hate more in all of sport that NE... But its impossible not to respect them.

I have to agree with this. Have to think Belichek is every bit as good as Lombardi or Noll or Walsh or any of the all time greats.

[cj]

Odd that Wilson is bearing the brunt of the criticism, except for the one post who said Seattle can't block (which is true). Look at the receivers he's had to work with. Nobody would ever call Doug Baldwin or any of the others an All-Pro. He's got Graham now but Graham doesn't seem like he's got the new system figured out.

They've blown FIVE 4th quarter leads. That is on the defense. Against Jimmy Clausen, Colin Kaepernick, Matt Stafford and Matt Cassel, the Seahawks D is allowing 6 points per game. Against Rodgers, Nick Foles, Dalton, Newton and Palmer, Seattle is allowing 31 points per game. The 2012-2014 Seahawks would never have allowed that to happen.

I wasn't implying Wilson was the problem, just comparing him to Flacco. Neither has much of a line or very good receivers. Neither are really going to win you games you shouldn't win, but with a good cast around them can be very good.

[thaskalos]

I like Wilson a lot. For a young guy, he shows unusual poise, he is very quick...and he throws a nice deep ball. His receivers don't get the separation needed in order to stretch the field...and this forces Wilson into a more conservative offensive game plan.

[cj]

I like Wilson a lot. For a young guy, he shows unusual poise, he is very quick...and he throws a nice deep ball. His receivers don't get the separation needed in order to stretch the field...and this forces Wilson into a more conservative offensive game plan.

Is it Wilson or Carroll or Graham that has turned Jimmy Graham into a second rate tight end?

[thaskalos]

Is it Wilson or Carroll or Graham that has turned Jimmy Graham into a second rate tight end?
It ain't Wilson.

[Robert Fischer]

Is it Wilson or Carroll or Graham that has turned Jimmy Graham into a second rate tight end?

Great question.


I haven't studied him or the Seahawks this year, but my impression was that Graham was a little bit soft, and that he was dressed up as a target from a top passer (Brees), and on the basketball-tightend craze.

One of Seattle's former strengths was a resourceful use of salary cap. Not sure how (Grahams contract, or) Wilson's 87M contract affected that so far, but it will certainly hurt long-term.

[Valuist]

Is it Wilson or Carroll or Graham that has turned Jimmy Graham into a second rate tight end?

The answer is Graham. Completely different offense than in NO. With a QB who scrambles and rolls out, the receiver has to improvise more.

[Valuist]

Was I wrong? We'll get a better idea this week.

Since the original post, they took apart a terrible Niners team. No surprise there. The win over the Steelers was interesting; the defense got shredded but the offense came to the rescue and won a big time shootout. No Graham, no Lynch, no problem.

If one pays any attention to strength of schedule, then you have to think Seattle has faced far better opponents than the Vikings. The Seahawks have faced Carolina, Arizona, Denver, Green Bay and Pittsburgh. When they beat the Bears and Lions, it was assumed both of those teams were terrible, and while they aren't great, they are average.

The Vikings have stepped up in class twice so far; a loss at Denver, and a home loss to Green Bay. They beat KC, but that was while the Chiefs were in a 1-5 run to start the season. THe Vikings should get a good test, closing out the season with Seattle, Arizona, a divisional game vs the Bears, the Giants and end the season in Green Bay.

[rastajenk]

Except for a couple of outliers at both ends of the spectrum, the whole bunch of them are heading for 8-8, 9-7, 7-9 territory in this last month, and scheduling is a huge part of it. I wouldn't be surprised if a hot mediocre team wins a playoff game or two over better teams that take their feet off the gas the last week or two.

[jballscalls]

The Seahawks certainly aren't as dominant as they were. Defense doesn't have same "it" and Wilson spends half the game running for his life cause the o-line isn't very good. It's a different team and not as good, but if they can finally start to put it together I could see them being dangerous in the playoffs.
*bit of a homer opinion

[Stillriledup]

Amazing how this 'dynasty' looking team falls off the map overnight (they're still decent but not great) and a team like New England never misses a beat no matter who the players are. Makes you wonder.

[barahona44]

Amazing how this 'dynasty' looking team falls off the map overnight (they're still decent but not great) and a team like New England never misses a beat no matter who the players are. Makes you wonder.
Take Tom Brady out of the mix and this is a one (the first one) Super Bowl winning team. Bellichick's 'genius' is due to # 12.

[ultracapper]

Seahawks want to keep Wilson in the pocket more. He truly has an outstanding arm. However, the pass blocking is below average, and this has cost them dearly this year. Wilson has taken a beating. Defenses have realized that if the "QB spy" stays disciplined, Wilson will give up the ball on the option without hesitation, and you can see a real effort on opposing defenses to do that. Actually, Wilson is more in tuned to Luke Willson at TE than he was with Graham, and it'll show the rest of this season. Graham is a WR in TE garb, doesn't block worth a damn, and that's no good in this offense where Wilson needs control of the corners of the line to run the option properly.

The D has lost it's hunger, for sure. Richard Sherman is a very smart man, and he has accomplished what he set out to do, make a name for himself and capitalize on it. He was the angriest of the angry up to the SB win, and then in the SB loss, he's out on the field making kissee kissee with Brady, the guy he got in the face of to really start his reputation. He's toned down, and as the voice of the D, it's kind of softened. The pass rush is nothing to what it was in the SB winning year. Still a great set of linebackers though, and that's a great place to build around, so it's not hopeless.

They're not that far away from being a team that can win a playoff game or two. They just need to bare down in the fourth quarter, both the O and D. There were numerous 3 and outs in those blown 4th quarters.

[thaskalos]

Seahawks want to keep Wilson in the pocket more. He truly has an outstanding arm. However, the pass blocking is below average, and this has cost them dearly this year. Wilson has taken a beating. Defenses have realized that if the "QB spy" stays disciplined, Wilson will give up the ball on the option without hesitation, and you can see a real effort on opposing defenses to do that. Actually, Wilson is more in tuned to Luke Willson at TE than he was with Graham, and it'll show the rest of this season. Graham is a WR in TE garb, doesn't block worth a damn, and that's no good in this offense where Wilson needs control of the corners of the line to run the option properly.

The D has lost it's hunger, for sure. Richard Sherman is a very smart man, and he has accomplished what he set out to do, make a name for himself and capitalize on it. He was the angriest of the angry up to the SB win, and then in the SB loss, he's out on the field making kissee kissee with Brady, the guy he got in the face of to really start his reputation. He's toned down, and as the voice of the D, it's kind of softened. The pass rush is nothing to what it was in the SB winning year. Still a great set of linebackers though, and that's a great place to build around, so it's not hopeless.

They're not that far away from being a team that can win a playoff game or two. They just need to bare down in the fourth quarter, both the O and D. There were numerous 3 and outs in those blown 4th quarters.

Wilson is an OUTSTANDING pocket passer. :ThmbUp:

[burnsy]

I like Wilson a lot. For a young guy, he shows unusual poise, he is very quick...and he throws a nice deep ball. His receivers don't get the separation needed in order to stretch the field...and this forces Wilson into a more conservative offensive game plan.

He's 61% passes over 10 yards, highest in the league. He burned Pittsburg hard last week. The problem for Seattle is their line play on both sides. The guy is a good passer if they give him a second or two. He's by far one of the smartest guys out there under pressure but its been hot and heavy in many of these games. That's a big problem vs. the Vikings.

The game today is a big one for them. They just need to make it in. I wouldn't say the run is over unless they fail to make the playoffs. I'll admit it does not look good though. That's the beauty of the NFL and its playoff system......its not jug heads in a room ranking teams. Losing is never the end of the world if you qualify.......teams finish 9-7 and can win it all. The 16 games is a war of attrition. Getting hot now can translate to February......its been done before. Things are just getting interesting and they are not completely out just yet.

[RaceBookJoe]

He's 61% passes over 10 yards, highest in the league. He burned Pittsburg hard last week. The problem for Seattle is their line play on both sides. The guy is a good passer if they give him a second or two. He's by far one of the smartest guys out there under pressure but its been hot and heavy in many of these games. That's a big problem vs. the Vikings.

The game today is a big one for them. They just need to make it in. I wouldn't say the run is over unless they fail to make the playoffs. I'll admit it does not look good though. That's the beauty of the NFL and its playoff system......its not jug heads in a room ranking teams. Losing is never the end of the world if you qualify.......teams finish 9-7 and can win it all. The 16 games is a war of attrition. Getting hot now can translate to February......its been done before. Things are just getting interesting and they are not completely out just yet.

Totally agree, if Seattle makes it into the playoffs, I wouldn't want to play them. I'm just happy that early on 12/6/15, my Redskins are actually in first place...with a pathetic 5-6 record haha.

[Valuist]

Really get the feeling that teams like Carolina and Arizona feel very good they played Seattle earlier in the season. Fantasy league idiots completely underestimated Russell Wilson. He always had the great QB rating but not big yardage. Now no Graham or Lynch? No problem. Now they look like an offensive force. IF their defense can get back to even a shadow of the 2012-2014 Seahawks, they will be tough in the playoffs.

[burnsy]

Totally agree Valuist......hey Teddy Bridgwater, can you say the word "clinic"?....cause that's what Russell is showing you. I had to laugh when people were posting that Wilson is not that good. If he stays healthy, he's just getting started. They act like he can't wing a football just because the team is not built that way. The guy is young and still learning. Plus, he's already been there and done that. Jokers forget that in all likelihood he should already have two rings. When I read some stuff....its a real hoot. The last three, going on 4 seasons were by "accident".....lol. He threw 26 TD passes as a rookie on a team that usually does not score a ton.......he sucks..... :lol:

[kingfin66]

Russell Wilson was definitely part of the problem earlier in the season. He was so gun shy due to his line play that he was giving up on the pocket much too early. I also believe that he had some issues reading the defense this year, something that he is known to be good at. Other issues that are being, or have been, worked out:

Jimmy Graham - Having him on the field is a huge liability for a running team. He cannot block. Period. He is an amazing pass catching tight end, but they do not run an offense that fits his skill set. Luke Willson is better as a blocker, but still not great. I wish we still had the Zach Miller. He was injury plagued when he was here, but he is an old school in-line and pass catching tight end.

Marshawn Lynch - After several years of greatness and hits, time has caught up to him. He has been fully, or even mostly, healthy for exactly -0- games this year. Thomas Rawls has emerged as the main running back and has produced every time he has had the chance.

Opponents schemes - Seattle's bread and butter defense is a Cover 3 (one high safety - Earl Thomas - and the strong safety - Kam Chancellor - in the box). Opponents have consistently thrown two route concepts at Seattle that have given them fits. The first is a tight end down the seam. The second is flooding a zone where one receiver runs an in and the other runs a fade. The CB (typically Sherman in this scenario) must keep with his man, but has started to follow the in.

I would advise everybody not to put any credence into what Pittsburgh did in that game. Seattle played a Cover 2 (two high safeties) and put their safeties VERY deep. There have been games where Seattle has not played one down of Cover 2. Quite honestly, they do not play it very well when they do play it. They made the decision to give up yards underneath and boy did they ever. Fortunately, Pittsburgh has a terrible secondary and the Seahawks were able to exploit it. The other result of Seattle being in Cover 2 for almost the entire Pittsburgh game is they took horrible angles, thus, giving up plenty of yards after catch. It was not a great performance to be sure, but they did what they needed to do.

Depth on defense - In 2013, Seattle rotated DL routinely. Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril played a surprisingly low amount of snaps. That has changed in 2014 and 2015 with the losses of Red Bryant and Clemons. Last year they got spread extremely thin with injuries to Brandon Mebane and Jordan Hill.

The Legion of Boom has also taken its fair of hits having lost Walter Thurmond after 2013 and Byron Maxwell after 2014. Those guys left for big contracts. What has perhaps hurt Seattle the most this year is the loss of Jeremy Lane for all but the last two games. He broke his arm and injured his knee on the same play in the Super Bowl. He is finally back.

O-Line - This is probably the most well-documented part of the team. This is also the area where the least amount of money has been spent. Seattle has a theory that they can take good athletes and develop them into offensive linemen. They have had some success with this and continue to try to do it. JR Sweezy is a converted D-lineman and has become a solid lineman. Gary Gilliam played TE at Penn State and has been getting better and better every week. The biggest move they made in the past two weeks was to dump their starting center, Drew Nowak, and replace him with Patrick Lewis. Lewis has played very well. I would argue that the Seattle Seahawks offensive line has played exceptionally well the past 4 weeks. They have run the ball well and the passing game has been strong.

Kam Chancellor's holdout - I think this cost Seattle two games early in the year. He is an important part of Seattle's defense.

Receivers - I don't know that this has been a problem area. Seattle is not known for their receivers, but the guys they have are suitable for the West Coast Offense. Jermaine Kearse is the guy that is the weakest in my opinion.

Seattle still has very, very talented players at a lot of positions. We are talking Pro Bowl and even All Pro talent. Richard Sherman has just one INT, but in my opinion is having his best season. He has just been absolutely incredible. Earl Thomas started slowly after having missed the pre-season after recovering from shoulder surgery. He is back to full strength. Note: he was a piss poor tackler against Pittsburgh.

Overall, I think Seattle's defense has dropped a little bit due to the inability to keep some players due to salary cap issues. Today; however, is an example of the level that they can still play at. They have many players in their prime.

The question is, can they get into the playoffs. I think they can. The schedule is finally favorable with games remaining against the likes of Baltimore and Cleveland. They also have games against division leader Arizona and St. Louis, who always give Seattle problems. The road to the Super Bowl should definitely be going through Carolina this year. That is one good team. The took the Seattle blueprint and have been doing it better than Seattle.

I love reading what people around the country think of the 'Hawks. Tell me this, do people like them, hate them, or generally not give a shit?

[Valuist]

Russell Wilson was definitely part of the problem earlier in the season. He was so gun shy due to his line play that he was giving up on the pocket much too early. I also believe that he had some issues reading the defense this year, something that he is known to be good at. Other issues that are being, or have been, worked out:

Jimmy Graham - Having him on the field is a huge liability for a running team. He cannot block. Period. He is an amazing pass catching tight end, but they do not run an offense that fits his skill set. Luke Willson is better as a blocker, but still not great. I wish we still had the Zach Miller. He was injury plagued when he was here, but he is an old school in-line and pass catching tight end.

Marshawn Lynch - After several years of greatness and hits, time has caught up to him. He has been fully, or even mostly, healthy for exactly -0- games this year. Thomas Rawls has emerged as the main running back and has produced every time he has had the chance.

Opponents schemes - Seattle's bread and butter defense is a Cover 3 (one high safety - Earl Thomas - and the strong safety - Kam Chancellor - in the box). Opponents have consistently thrown two route concepts at Seattle that have given them fits. The first is a tight end down the seam. The second is flooding a zone where one receiver runs an in and the other runs a fade. The CB (typically Sherman in this scenario) must keep with his man, but has started to follow the in.

I would advise everybody not to put any credence into what Pittsburgh did in that game. Seattle played a Cover 2 (two high safeties) and put their safeties VERY deep. There have been games where Seattle has not played one down of Cover 2. Quite honestly, they do not play it very well when they do play it. They made the decision to give up yards underneath and boy did they ever. Fortunately, Pittsburgh has a terrible secondary and the Seahawks were able to exploit it. The other result of Seattle being in Cover 2 for almost the entire Pittsburgh game is they took horrible angles, thus, giving up plenty of yards after catch. It was not a great performance to be sure, but they did what they needed to do.

Depth on defense - In 2013, Seattle rotated DL routinely. Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril played a surprisingly low amount of snaps. That has changed in 2014 and 2015 with the losses of Red Bryant and Clemons. Last year they got spread extremely thin with injuries to Brandon Mebane and Jordan Hill.

The Legion of Boom has also taken its fair of hits having lost Walter Thurmond after 2013 and Byron Maxwell after 2014. Those guys left for big contracts. What has perhaps hurt Seattle the most this year is the loss of Jeremy Lane for all but the last two games. He broke his arm and injured his knee on the same play in the Super Bowl. He is finally back.

O-Line - This is probably the most well-documented part of the team. This is also the area where the least amount of money has been spent. Seattle has a theory that they can take good athletes and develop them into offensive linemen. They have had some success with this and continue to try to do it. JR Sweezy is a converted D-lineman and has become a solid lineman. Gary Gilliam played TE at Penn State and has been getting better and better every week. The biggest move they made in the past two weeks was to dump their starting center, Drew Nowak, and replace him with Patrick Lewis. Lewis has played very well. I would argue that the Seattle Seahawks offensive line has played exceptionally well the past 4 weeks. They have run the ball well and the passing game has been strong.

Kam Chancellor's holdout - I think this cost Seattle two games early in the year. He is an important part of Seattle's defense.

Receivers - I don't know that this has been a problem area. Seattle is not known for their receivers, but the guys they have are suitable for the West Coast Offense. Jermaine Kearse is the guy that is the weakest in my opinion.

Seattle still has very, very talented players at a lot of positions. We are talking Pro Bowl and even All Pro talent. Richard Sherman has just one INT, but in my opinion is having his best season. He has just been absolutely incredible. Earl Thomas started slowly after having missed the pre-season after recovering from shoulder surgery. He is back to full strength. Note: he was a piss poor tackler against Pittsburgh.

Overall, I think Seattle's defense has dropped a little bit due to the inability to keep some players due to salary cap issues. Today; however, is an example of the level that they can still play at. They have many players in their prime.

The question is, can they get into the playoffs. I think they can. The schedule is finally favorable with games remaining against the likes of Baltimore and Cleveland. They also have games against division leader Arizona and St. Louis, who always give Seattle problems. The road to the Super Bowl should definitely be going through Carolina this year. That is one good team. The took the Seattle blueprint and have been doing it better than Seattle.

I love reading what people around the country think of the 'Hawks. Tell me this, do people like them, hate them, or generally not give a shit?

I felt Seattle was not only the best team in 2013 when they won the Super Bowl, and 2014 when they lost the Super Bowl, but also in 2012 when they just ran out of time in Atlanta. There were signs of a falloff in the team earlier; 5 blown 4th quarter leads. But they've won 4 out of their last 5, and they've faced one of the toughest schedules this year. Lynch was great for years, but right now, Rawls may be better. The no name WRs may be better than given credit for; now that they are opening things up, they are putting up big numbers.

[ultracapper]

Wilson is an OUTSTANDING pocket passer. :ThmbUp:

He's proven that the past couple weeks. He's dicing them right now.

[ultracapper]

I felt Seattle was not only the best team in 2013 when they won the Super Bowl, and 2014 when they lost the Super Bowl, but also in 2012 when they just ran out of time in Atlanta. There were signs of a falloff in the team earlier; 5 blown 4th quarter leads. But they've won 4 out of their last 5, and they've faced one of the toughest schedules this year. Lynch was great for years, but right now, Rawls may be better. The no name WRs may be better than given credit for; now that they are opening things up, they are putting up big numbers.

They didn't run out of time. They blew it. They took a 28-27 lead with well under 2 minutes left. Kicked off. Then gave up two big Ryan-Gonzalez gains down the seam and Bryant hit a 40 yard or so field goal to win it. It was a brutal finish.

Edit: But I do agree, that if they weren't the best team in the playoffs at that moment, it was a sign of what was coming the next year. They had scored about 150 points in their final 4 games, and the D was just wiping every one out. Not being a homer, but everybody around here knew they'd beat Denver the next year. The Manning media blitz meant nothing to us. We knew how good they were that year.

[NJ Stinks]

I love reading what people around the country think of the 'Hawks. Tell me this, do people like them, hate them, or generally not give a shit?

You must be kidding. I care about the Tennessee Titans and love, hate or indifference has nothing to do with it. If one is betting on the NFL, one cares.

Having said that, I don't particularly root for Seattle. The coach is hard to root for; Wilson spends too much time selling himself; Lynch should spend more time selling himself; Sherman talks way too much. Aside from cashing a futures bet on Seattle two years ago, I'm still wondering how I didn't cash a Seattle bet to win the Super Bowl at 2-1 that I made just before the playoffs started last year.

Anyway, my thoughts on the Seattle have zip to do with being a "fan" or "non-fan" of the Seahawks.

Having watched pro football for a lot of years I settled on 3 teams that I root for for various fan-related reasons - the Raiders, the Bills, and the Ravens. But if any of those 3 teams move cities, they are off my list!

[kingfin66]

I agree with some of what you said. My question was posed from a fan, not bettor, point-of-view. One correction: Richard Sherman is not doing much talking these days. That looks to be in the past, at least I hope it is.

[ultracapper]

You should see Lynch sell himself around here. He does plumbing commercials and used car commercials. You can't watch TV for 2 hours without seeing him. Only Wilson gets more air time than Lynch.

[ultracapper]

I agree with some of what you said. My question was posed from a fan, not bettor, point-of-view. One correction: Richard Sherman is not doing much talking these days. That looks to be in the past, at least I hope it is.

He's accomplished what he wanted to do with his talking. Smart man. Well planned career. Most of his noise was calculated.

[thaskalos]

He's accomplished what he wanted to do with his talking. Smart man. Well planned career. Most of his noise was calculated.
He made a lot of noise...but he backed it up.

[NJ Stinks]

You should see Lynch sell himself around here. He does plumbing commercials and used car commercials. You can't watch TV for 2 hours without seeing him. Only Wilson gets more air time than Lynch.

Glad to hear Lynch is appreciated in Seattle. Marshawn gives everything he's got every time he gets the ball - from far away he seems like the kind of you want on your team.

[Stillriledup]

Is Seattle BACK?

[thaskalos]

Is Seattle BACK?
The reports concerning Seattle's demise were greatly exaggerated. And so were the rumors that Wilson is "nowhere near and never will be an elite QB". :)

This season has proven many of us wrong...and is winding down very nicely. The playoffs should be very interesting.

[Stillriledup]

The reports concerning Seattle's demise were greatly exaggerated. And so were the rumors that Wilson is "nowhere near and never will be an elite QB". :)

This season has proven many of us wrong...and is winding down very nicely. The playoffs should be very interesting.

So what happened? Why are these guys good again? Or, maybe the question is why did they look so average early on?

[thaskalos]

So what happened? Why are these guys good again? Or, maybe the question is why did they look so average early on?
It's the year of the sudden form reversal, SRU. The Seahawks and the KC Chiefs drastically improved...while the Falcons and the Packers suddenly declined. And most of the other teams have been wildly inconsistent throughout.

And I thought "chaos" was only a major factor in OUR game. :)

[tucker6]

The reports concerning Seattle's demise were greatly exaggerated. And so were the rumors that Wilson is "nowhere near and never will be an elite QB". :)

This season has proven many of us wrong...and is winding down very nicely. The playoffs should be very interesting.
what is an elite QB? Please define it for us.

[davew]

The reports concerning Seattle's demise were greatly exaggerated. And so were the rumors that Wilson is "nowhere near and never will be an elite QB". :)

This season has proven many of us wrong...and is winding down very nicely. The playoffs should be very interesting.


Both of the Seahawks last seasons had the start slow and average. The first season they had more wins because they won more 'flips' on the last drive and luckboxed wins.

When most other teams are breaking down late in the season, the Seahawks are getting stronger.

[thaskalos]

Both of the Seahawks last seasons had the start slow and average. The first season they had more wins because they won more 'flips' on the last drive and luckboxed wins.

When most other teams are breaking down late in the season, the Seahawks are getting stronger.

Seattle looked much more vulnerable this year than they had looked in the two prior years. They started off 2-4 this year...a scenario that few would have predicted.

[kingfin66]

I will take a shot at this question of Seattle's resurgence.

First half of the season:

Losses at St.Louis, at Green Bay and at Cincinnati. Add in a loss at Arizona with the first game after the bye. That is 5 losses to 4 playoff teams, two of which will have the first round bye in the NFC. 4 out of 5 of the losses were on the road. The home loss was against Carolina who is yet to lose. What is very disappointing is the 4th quarter leads that were blown in those losses.

Wins against:

Chicago who was starting Claussen. Chicago had nine consecutive punts to start the game.

Detroit which should have been a loss. Recall the play in which Megatron fumbled at the goal line and KJ Wright intentionally batted the ball out of the end zone.

San Francisco x2. A moribund franchise at the present.

Dallas - A less than stellar effort against a Romo-less Cowboys team.

The last four games:

San Fran - See above.

Pittsburgh - A team with a terrible secondary. They threw up the red flag against Roethlisburger and played Cover 2 virtually the entire game rather than the usual Cover 3.

Minnesota - Perhaps there most impressive win of the year. Minnesota was missing three key defenders to injury. I doubt the outcome would have been different, but the margin of victory would have been closer.

Baltimore - The Ravens have had a tough year with many injuries. This was the first time they had been blown out. The Hawks faced Claussen again.

Overall, Seattle has played better but they have not beaten the really good teams. They have played them close, but blew too many 4th quarter leads. The passing game has been successful, but we have to be honest here. The secondaries they have played against, if not the overall defenses, have been very poor. This week they play Cleveland which should be another win. That is followed by a game at home against St. Louis who is clearly not the team that Seattle lost to in week 1. The final home game is against St. Louis. Given that St.Louis and Seattle will have locked up a first round bye and the 5th seed respectively, the game will likely play like a pre-season game with both teams sitting many starters.

Seattle goes into the playoffs hot, but still largely unproven against good teams (other than the ability to play them close). Clearly they are playing good football as of late, but I expect teams with good defenses to adjust. The Cardinals blitz gave them fits and the Carolina front seven has owned the NFC this year.

To me, the biggest concern is that the secondary is still having problems defending certain route concepts. In particular, the seam route when they are in Cover 3 has been an issue in a few games. They really need to tighten this up in the playoffs. Also, the injury to Kam Chancellor (tailbone) may be an issue.

Are they back? Yes, in a sense, but they never really went away totally.

My prediction is that they will win their road game against the NFC East. I also believe that they will beat Arizona on the road. It is that last stop in Carolina that is going to be the tough one. Carolina has impressed the hell out of me this year. They look to have taken Seattle's formula of winning with defense, rushing and smart/efficient QB play and taken it to a new level.

[kingfin66]

what is an elite QB? Please define it for us.

I don't know if I can define it, but I know one when I see one. To me, an elite QB is one that plays highly effectively within the system in which he plays. For example, Tom Brady is the master of the short passing game and getting the most out of the receivers he has to work with. To me, he is an elite QB. Aaron Rodgers is IMO, an elite QB. Russell may or may not be one, but I would like to see him sustain this level of play over an entire season.

One measure that some people like to use, in the absence of other metrics, is the Quarterback Rating. Wilson's is 101.3 for his first 3 4/5 seasons. That ranks second in both active and career leaders, surpassed only by Aaron Rodgers who has a 105.0.

Other notable career QB Ratings:

Romo 97.1
Manning 96.5
Brady 96.4
Montana 92.3
Marino 86.4
Fouts 80.2
Elway 79.9
Unitas 78.2
Griese 77.1

Note: This is not an argument that Wilson is better than the guys below him on the list. They are all HoFers, or future HoFers, for a reason.

[Valuist]

what is an elite QB? Please define it for us.

I would say a career QB rating of OVER 100 would be it. But then there's only one other elite QB (Rodgers at 105). Wilson is a 101. (Peyton) Manning, Brady, Brees and Big Ben are all in the mid to upper 90s. I would say Russell Wilson is an elite QB. He just didn't get the chance to throw much until this season.

And if anyone had any doubt, Mike Pettine, the idiot head coach of the Browns came out today saying Wilson "isn't quite an elite QB". Really.....he's such a great judge of talent. :rolleyes:

Edit: didn't see Kingfin's post which pretty much said what I said.

Kingfin, we can't really compare different eras in QBs because the rule changes have been stilted to favor the offense in recent years. I'm sure if Roger Staubach was born in 1985 instead of the 1940s, he'd have a QB rating of around 100. Same with Joe Montana.

[kingfin66]

I agree regarding the inability to compare eras. Not only because of rule changes, but do to the changes in offensive systems. So many passes now are very short that the qbr cannot help but be higher due to higher completion rates. The hall of famers I included in my list are the real deal as are many others.

[thaskalos]

I agree regarding the inability to compare eras. Not only because of rule changes, but do to the changes in offensive systems. So many passes now are very short that the qbr cannot help but be higher due to higher completion rates. The hall of famers I included in my list are the real deal as are many others.

The QB position has assumed a much greater level of importance in the modern version of the game...but this works BOTH ways. It enhances the efficiency ratings of the top QBs...but it also exposes the weaknesses of the average ones.

I'm not sure if today's "changes in offensive systems" are beneficial to the QBs in general.

[kingfin66]

The QB position has assumed a much greater level of importance in the modern version of the game...but this works BOTH ways. It enhances the efficiency ratings of the top QBs...but it also exposes the weaknesses of the average ones.

I'm not sure if today's "changes in offensive systems" are beneficial to the QBs in general.
I thought it was clear that I was speaking to the qbr and the QBs themselves. Clearly the qb is the most important position on the field. It is as much mental as it is physical. There are are so many decisions that must be made both before and during a play... I don't know how they do it.

[thaskalos]

I thought it was clear that I was speaking to the qbr and the QBs themselves. Clearly the qb is the most important position on the field. It is as much mental as it is physical. There are are so many decisions that must be made both before and during a play... I don't know how they do it.

Sorry, my mistake. English isn't my mother tongue... :blush:

[tucker6]

The QB position has assumed a much greater level of importance in the modern version of the game...but this works BOTH ways. It enhances the efficiency ratings of the top QBs...but it also exposes the weaknesses of the average ones.

I'm not sure if today's "changes in offensive systems" are beneficial to the QBs in general.
As to the average qb's you mention, they seem to fall into two camps. One camp are those with average attributes and mechanics. The second camp are those who don't put the effort understanding how to play the position and game film study. The second camp seems to be the biggest limiting factor for the quality of qb play in the NFL imo.

[kingfin66]

Sorry, my mistake. English isn't my mother tongue... :blush:

I have come off a bit strident there. Not intentional. What is your first language?

[PhantomOnTour]

Where's the next generation of "super computer" QBs ???
I see no young guys in the league right now who compute and read as well as Brady, Brees, Rodgers, & Peyton Manning. It's no wonder that they've all won the Super Bowl.
Living in Louisiana I watch a lot of Saints games, and you can literally see Brees going through his reads in the pocket (slight jerk of the head as he scans the field)...and he does FAST, very fast.
Likewise for the others mentioned above.
Have we been spoiled by this bunch?
Who's next?

[thaskalos]

I have come off a bit strident there. Not intentional. What is your first language?
Greek.

[Valuist]

Where's the next generation of "super computer" QBs ???
I see no young guys in the league right now who compute and read as well as Brady, Brees, Rodgers, & Peyton Manning. It's no wonder that they've all won the Super Bowl.
Living in Louisiana I watch a lot of Saints games, and you can literally see Brees going through his reads in the pocket (slight jerk of the head as he scans the field)...and he does FAST, very fast.
Likewise for the others mentioned above.
Have we been spoiled by this bunch?
Who's next?

I think David Carr could be. I see all the Raider games and he's impressed me. He still makes a few mistakes, like throwing off the back foot every now and then, but he's solid.

[kingfin66]

Greek.

Never would have guessed that!

[thaskalos]

Never would have guessed that!
Why does this surprise you?

[Valuist]

No Lynch, Rawls steps up big. But now no Rawls. No Graham. O-line not as strong as last year. Wilson had compensated for all the lost talent elsewhere but he came back to earth last week. Seattle is like the horse capable of the 110 Beyer but might is also capable of throwing an 88.

[kingfin66]

Good analogy with the Beyers. We could also say that they have some "back class." Last week was a great example of what happens when they have a bad match up with a team that has a good front four d-line. This week's game against Arizona will be interesting. Seattle lost at home when they blew a 4th quarter lead. Arizona's blitz's cause problems for lots of teams, but it is really their offense that has them on top of the division. Both teams have something to play for: Arizona potentially the top seed in the NFC and Seattle the five seed in the playoffs (strange to think of that as something to play for).

[kingfin66]

Why does this surprise you?

You are extremely articulate with the written word. This is not indicative of a English being a second language in my opinion. You speaking Greek as a first language is not as surprising. You indicate that you are from "Chicagoland." If my information is correct, there is a large Greek population in Chicago. In fact, it is my understanding that the majority of restaurants in Chicago are Greek-owned.

[Valuist]

If my information is correct, there is a large Greek population in Chicago. In fact, it is my understanding that the majority of restaurants in Chicago are Greek-owned.

That would be correct.

[thaskalos]

You are extremely articulate with the written word. This is not indicative of a English being a second language in my opinion. You speaking Greek as a first language is not as surprising. You indicate that you are from "Chicagoland." If my information is correct, there is a large Greek population in Chicago. In fact, it is my understanding that the majority of restaurants in Chicago are Greek-owned.

Yes...this is true. The majority of the restaurants in Chicago are Greek-owned. But I hold most of my Greek conversations at racetracks and OTBs. :)

[Valuist]

Yes...this is true. The majority of the restaurants in Chicago are Greek-owned. But I hold most of my Greek conversations at racetracks and OTBs. :)

And they all have menus as thick as a book.

[thaskalos]

And they all have menus as thick as a book.
There is a good reason for that. When these Greek owners were growing up in Greece...they were all HUNGRY. :)

[Valuist]

From my original question, posed a few months ago, I think we can emphatically say yes. Best team in NFL, IMO, for 3 years straight, yet only one SB win. RIP. It was an embarrassing swan song.

[Stillriledup]

From my original question, posed a few months ago, I think we can emphatically say yes. Best team in NFL, IMO, for 3 years straight, yet only one SB win. RIP. It was an embarrassing swan song.

I guess they didn't do a good enough job with their spycams and deflated footballs. Maybe next year.

[cj]

Maybe not dead yet. Did people really think it was over at 31-0? I didn't.

[Grits]

Maybe not dead yet. Did people really think it was over at 31-0? I didn't.

Hence, my comment. It ain't ever over 'til it's over. I wouldn't walk away from my team so easily.

#Keep Pounding, Carolina. ;)

[Stillriledup]

Great call by Joe Buck, he called that fake.

[Valuist]

Maybe not dead yet. Did people really think it was over at 31-0? I didn't.

In college, no (see Oregon/TCU). In the NFL? Yes. I know the Panthers nearly blew a 28 point lead vs the Giants, but they did still end up winning that game. Too much to overcome in the NFL.

[Grits]

In college, no (see Oregon/TCU). In the NFL? Yes. I know the Panthers nearly blew a 28 point lead vs the Giants, but they did still end up winning that game. Too much to overcome in the NFL.

No one can say Russell and Seattle didn't play a helluva 2nd half. No way. I'm glad we beat them, but they did well.

[PhantomOnTour]

No way anyone will dominate Seattle for 4qtrs.

They fought like champs, but Carolina beat them down so badly in the 1st half.
They took advantage of any and all opportunities, created their own breaks, and took it to them.
31-0 is near impossible to overcome.
How big was the missed FG by Hauschka at the end of the first half!?

I like Carolina to beat Arizona next week, and do it rather easily.
Palmer will crumble under their pressure.

[Grits]

I hope you're right about next week, Phantom. ;)

#Keep Pounding

[Valuist]

No one can say Russell and Seattle didn't play a helluva 2nd half. No way. I'm glad we beat them, but they did well.

They did. But they were sleep walking in the first quarter. And in the NFL, when teams get the big lead, they go into the prevent and the opponent ends up getting back into the game. Did you ever really think Seattle would win, or even tie it up? Takes a lot of energy to mount a comeback like that.

[Stillriledup]

No way anyone will dominate Seattle for 4qtrs.

They fought like champs, but Carolina beat them down so badly in the 1st half.
They took advantage of any and all opportunities, created their own breaks, and took it to them.
31-0 is near impossible to overcome.
How big was the missed FG by Hauschka at the end of the first half!?

I like Carolina to beat Arizona next week, and do it rather easily.
Palmer will crumble under their pressure.

Palmer is the X factor, zona won despite him. I like zona to win this game because I'm concerned for Carolina that they keep relinquishing huge leads, Giants game and now this game. If you can't put teams away it's a lot harder. This will be bigger test for the Panthers, they played a road weary group today, zona is good and not weary, this will be a fun game

[kinznk]

They did. But they were sleep walking in the first quarter. And in the NFL, when teams get the big lead, they go into the prevent and the opponent ends up getting back into the game. Did you ever really think Seattle would win, or even tie it up? Takes a lot of energy to mount a comeback like that.

The Panthers blitzed through the end of the game. I don't think they were in a prevent. Psychologically they may have let down a bit. It didn't look like it to me. There offense went conservative, and rightly so, but I think their d played hard throughout.

[kingfin66]

No way anyone will dominate Seattle for 4qtrs.

They fought like champs, but Carolina beat them down so badly in the 1st half.
They took advantage of any and all opportunities, created their own breaks, and took it to them.
31-0 is near impossible to overcome.
How big was the missed FG by Hauschka at the end of the first half!?

I like Carolina to beat Arizona next week, and do it rather easily.
Palmer will crumble under their pressure.

Even more important was the decision by Carroll on the previous possession. He oped to go for it on 4th down instead of kicking the field goal.

[Rookies]

No way anyone will dominate Seattle for 4qtrs.

They fought like champs, but Carolina beat them down so badly in the 1st half.
They took advantage of any and all opportunities, created their own breaks, and took it to them.
31-0 is near impossible to overcome.

NEAR- but not!

I was in a stadium, in the 3rd. Quarter, in 1993, when it was overcome!

[Stillriledup]

NEAR- but not!

I was in a stadium, in the 3rd. Quarter, in 1993, when it was overcome!

But you left early and missed it right :lol:

Be honest :D

[Rookies]

But you left early and missed it right :lol:

Be honest :D

Funny, someone asked me that today. Here was the text.



Q: "Man i know that game had to be fun to watch , but i must ask what was the greatest moment in that game?"

A: MY greatest moment was buying a shite Gennesse Beer, just before the end of 1/2 time.

So, at the 31:41 mark of the game, when the Oilers picked off Reich to make it 35-3, my buddies all bailed and I stayed to finish my beer.

It was, as though, a switch was flipped and everything was turned on its' head! The Bills drove down in 10 plays to score and again and again and again- 28 in the 3rd. Quarter! At that point, I knew they were coming all the way back. My buddies re-appeared midway through the 4th. Quarter- one of the very, few times the NFL ever allowed that to happen.

ALL was great... THE GREATEST EVER! :)

(Oh, forgot to say, I was in the 5th. Year of being a Season Tix holder... on the 50 yard line. Aaaand, my buddies were all really pissed at me, because I didn't leave when they did! But, they forgot one thing.

I had the KEYS! :lol: :lol:

Of course, I kept the stubs.

[Grits]

They did. But they were sleep walking in the first quarter. And in the NFL, when teams get the big lead, they go into the prevent and the opponent ends up getting back into the game. Did you ever really think Seattle would win, or even tie it up? Takes a lot of energy to mount a comeback like that.

No, but I'm wise enough not to give up on Russell Wilson at the half. Valuist, I'm not some newb chick that found fantasy league because it was cool and I could talk about it online. I've been watching NFL football for decades. Favorites from the past, always? Sweetness and Marino.

[Stillriledup]

Funny, someone asked me that today. Here was the text.



Q: "Man i know that game had to be fun to watch , but i must ask what was the greatest moment in that game?"

A: MY greatest moment was buying a shite Gennesse Beer, just before the end of 1/2 time.

So, at the 31:41 mark of the game, when the Oilers picked off Reich to make it 35-3, my buddies all bailed and I stayed to finish my beer.

It was, as though, a switch was flipped and everything was turned on its' head! The Bills drove down in 10 plays to score and again and again and again- 28 in the 3rd. Quarter! At that point, I knew they were coming all the way back. My buddies re-appeared midway through the 4th. Quarter- one of the very, few times the NFL ever allowed that to happen.

ALL was great... THE GREATEST EVER! :)

(Oh, forgot to say, I was in the 5th. Year of being a Season Tix holder... on the 50 yard line. Aaaand, my buddies were all really pissed at me, because I didn't leave when they did! But, they forgot one thing.

I had the KEYS! :lol: :lol:

Of course, I kept the stubs.

Think of how happy you are that you stayed.

:ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

No, but I'm wise enough not to give up on Russell Wilson at the half. Valuist, I'm not some newb chick that found fantasy league because it was cool and I could talk about it online. I've been watching NFL football for decades. Favorites from the past, always? Sweetness and Marino.

One of the first jerseys I owned a sweetness jersey.

Simply the best.

SiFbcuX42Ds

[Rookies]

Think of how happy you are that you stayed.

:ThmbUp:

Yep. They couldn't have been that pissed, as they knew they were witnessing history in the making! Made me think, obviously, of when I would EVER leave a game early, from then on.

Also, for us Bills fans, because we can't point to a SB W, we can again mention, with the Seattle loss, how incredibly hard and how impossibly good they were to get to it- 4 straight years! :ThmbUp: Most wins in the decade, I believe.

[Tom]

Call now for more information....

044-BUF-FALO

[Grits]

Thank you for this.

Last Sunday morning I was in the grocery store before the games started in the afternoon. A tall, huge shouldered gentlemen walked towards me, shopping, wearing a Bears #34 jersey. I looked him in the eye, and only said, "Sweetness". He smiled so big and asked me, "you remember"?

I told him, "sure, always." I'd not seen that jersey in a very long time.

One of the first jerseys I owned a sweetness jersey.

Simply the best.

SiFbcuX42Ds

[Stillriledup]

Thank you for this.

Last Sunday morning I was in the grocery store before the games started in the afternoon. A tall, huge shouldered gentlemen walked towards me, shopping, wearing a Bears #34 jersey. I looked him in the eye, and only said, "Sweetness". He smiled so big and asked me, "you remember"?

I told him, "sure, always." I'd not seen that jersey in a very long time.

I wore that Jersey so often the white letters were cracked and fading (was the crappy dicks sporting goods type of jersey and not the high quality nfl version) When I look back at photos I'm quite often in my sweetness jersey, it was my signature look lol.

[ultracapper]

What's different personnelwise w Seattle besides lack of hunger?

I have no idea what these guys are talking about. Let's look at the facts.

The lowest scoring D in the league.
Arguably the best O in the league in the 2nd half of the season.
Highest rated QB in the league going into his 5th year next season.
A RB waiting in the wings to fill the gap if needed.
Name a key player that needs to be signed.
4th straight year with a playoff win. Aside from the Pats, is there another team that can say that?
A rock solid locker room that gets cleaned out when necessary.
A rock solid culture that isn't afraid of a 31-0 halftime deficit.

Here's my take. The Cards better do it this year, because their window gets slammed shut come September. As good as their offense is, it's hardly chink proof. Their RBs are fragile, the face of the franchise is aging, albeit gracefully, but aging all the same. The young WRs have shown a susceptibility to missing time. The QB isn't the most mobile guy out there either. We play in a rock-m-sock-m division. Everybody gets pounded.

I haven't even stated any "ifs". Aside from the opinion stated in the paragraph directly above, these are all facts.

The only ifs out there is, If the O line plays a full season next year, just how good will this O be? If they don't make a flub with D-back personnel next year like they did at CB in the first half of this season, how good will the D be? And that's another example of the Hawks cleaning up their mess when they see it.

I'm very eager to see what the O/U for the Hawks is next season for win total. I believe we are looking at a 13 win season in 2016. I believe we're going to see a little of the "tude" come back also. Frankly, the talk throughout the season was littered with a lot of "pride" and "grit" and stuff like that, but there was, at least in the local media from the team, an under-current of "this is unacceptable", particularly early in the season.

[ultracapper]

And also, even though it took some time, and they probably paid the price for it this season, a locker room that survived through, and has gotten over, the absolutely stupidist play in SB history.

[Valuist]

Thank you for this.

Last Sunday morning I was in the grocery store before the games started in the afternoon. A tall, huge shouldered gentlemen walked towards me, shopping, wearing a Bears #34 jersey. I looked him in the eye, and only said, "Sweetness". He smiled so big and asked me, "you remember"?

I told him, "sure, always." I'd not seen that jersey in a very long time.

I lived in the Chicago area until the last year, and you still see a Payton jersey. Not nearly as many as Jordan or Pippen, but it has been nearly 30 years since he played. One of the 10 greatest players of all time.

[Valuist]

Carolina was the horse who ran the good speed figure but the fantastic Timeform number. To open up a 31-0 lead on a quality team like Seattle is quite impressive. Despite the 7 point final margin, at no point in the game can anyone say Seattle should've won.

[Grits]

I lived in the Chicago area until the last year, and you still see a Payton jersey. Not nearly as many as Jordan or Pippen, but it has been nearly 30 years since he played. One of the 10 greatest players of all time.

The video SRU posted brought tears. Silly me..couldn't help it. He was just gone too soon. Greatness, indeed... The commercial running currently during NFL games, the one with Eric Dickerson talking about Walter? It gets to me, too. I'm glad so many Chicagoans still love him.

[tophatmert]

I lived in the Chicago area until the last year, and you still see a Payton jersey. Not nearly as many as Jordan or Pippen, but it has been nearly 30 years since he played. One of the 10 greatest players of all time.

In the spring I will go and play golf on the 9 hole par 3 Nickel Knoll course in Arlington Heights. The course was built on Payton's Hill where he used to train. When I am driving up the hill I always think about his effort level and how that separated him from many other gifted players. Definitely top 10.

[Valuist]

The video SRU posted brought tears. Silly me..couldn't help it. He was just gone too soon. Greatness, indeed... The commercial running currently during NFL games, the one with Eric Dickerson talking about Walter? It gets to me, too. I'm glad so many Chicagoans still love him.

Liver cancer.....supposedly he took thousands and thousands of pain pills. He ran so hard; was only about 205 pounds but often ran over defensive players.

[Stillriledup]

The video SRU posted brought tears. Silly me..couldn't help it. He was just gone too soon. Greatness, indeed... The commercial running currently during NFL games, the one with Eric Dickerson talking about Walter? It gets to me, too. I'm glad so many Chicagoans still love him.

There was something special about him that can't be duplicated and went much deeper than sports, he's one of a very small group of people that you can truly say, there will never be another.

[NJ Stinks]

I have no idea what these guys are talking about. Let's look at the facts.



You forgot to mention:

1. The St. Louis Rams, distracted as they were by a possible move to LA, beat Seattle twice this season.

2. The Vikings would have sent the Seahawks walking back to Seattle except for the apparent intervention of God himself (just quoting some Seahawk players after the game).

3. The over/under win total for the Seahawks this season was 11 wins. In fact, they won 10 games.

[Secondbest]

cam chancellor held out this year. he wants a new contract. Whats the seahawk cap situation?

[ultracapper]

You forgot to mention:

1. The St. Louis Rams, distracted as they were by a possible move to LA, beat Seattle twice this season.

2. The Vikings would have sent the Seahawks walking back to Seattle except for the apparent intervention of God himself (just quoting some Seahawk players after the game).

3. The over/under win total for the Seahawks this season was 11 wins. In fact, they won 10 games.

I would chalk up this entire season to that 1 play in SB IL. Getting over that play was a job in and of itself. That is one of those soul searching, self questioning challenges that could have brought this team right down to their knees, and may have almost done it. It had to be one of the most disappointing plays for one particular team in the history of the NFL. There have been hundreds of "what if" plays in NFL history, but that one has got to take the cake. If they put the O/U at 11 this year, I've got $500 on the O.

Being distracted by a possible move couldn't have been nearly as challenging as overcoming the questions that one play in the SB must have brought to the Seattle Seahawks. Only a firm belief in self and confidence in what they do got them through that.

Even the Pats haven't made it to the SB every year with Brady and Belichek. There have been miracle plays and breaks and what ifs along the way for them also. It's way too early to write this organization off.

[NJ Stinks]

I would chalk up this entire season to that 1 play in SB IL. Getting over that play was a job in and of itself. That is one of those soul searching, self questioning challenges that could have brought this team right down to their knees, and may have almost done it. It had to be one of the most disappointing plays for one particular team in the history of the NFL. There have been hundreds of "what if" plays in NFL history, but that one has got to take the cake. If they put the O/U at 11 this year, I've got $500 on the O.

Being distracted by a possible move couldn't have been nearly as challenging as overcoming the questions that one play in the SB must have brought to the Seattle Seahawks. Only a firm belief in self and confidence in what they do got them through that.

Even the Pats haven't made it to the SB every year with Brady and Belichek. There have been miracle plays and breaks and what ifs along the way for them also. It's way too early to write this organization off.

Two years ago I collected on Seattle winning the SB at 8-1. Last year I bet $100 on the Seahawks to win the SB at 2-1 right before the playoffs started. I guess you could say - like the Seahawks themselves - I'm still trying to get over that loss.

But this year was just bad. So bad - I bet the Vikings last week and collected. The team and the coach are going south fast. At least that's how I see the Seahawks from NJ.

[kingfin66]

cam chancellor held out this year. he wants a new contract. Whats the seahawk cap situation?

It is probably less a question of their cap situation as it is their willingness to renegotiate. They stood firm last year and he eventually came in after two games. Seattle has a policy regarding not renegotiating when players have more than one year left on their contracts and they have stood by it. Kam still has two years left. If they do his, they will have to do Michael Bennett's as well. I could easily envision a scenario where both of them hold out next year. Not a good situation.

As far as the cap space goes. They are sure to cut ties with Mr. Lynch. They will have to decide whether to stick with Graham. The offensive line comes cheap (and it shows!), but I believe Okung may be a free agent. The only FA on defense that comes to mind is Bruce Irvin. I say let him walk. He is not great in pass coverage despite his speed.

[kingfin66]

Two years ago I collected on Seattle winning the SB at 8-1. Last year I bet $100 on the Seahawks to win the SB at 2-1 right before the playoffs started. I guess you could say - like the Seahawks themselves - I'm still trying to get over that loss.

But this year was just bad. So bad - I bet the Vikings last week and collected. The team and the coach are going south fast. At least that's how I see the Seahawks from NJ.

This is an interesting perspective to say the least. They went from 2-4 to 10-6, winning 8 of their last ten. Also won a road playoff game in tough conditions. They then ran into a buzz saw in Carolina and made it close at the end. Their franchise quarterback is in his prime and they still have a good defense with many players in their prime. Depth was an issue this year as was youth on the O-line and trying to implement Jimmy Graham into the offense. Things were compounded by the fact that Graham cannot block.

Fact check me on this, but Seattle's worst loss during the past few years was the 10-point loss to Green Bay in week 2 this year.

I hardly think the team and coach are going south fast. In fact, I think they will make another run next year.

[ultracapper]

In the Russell Wilson 4 year era, the Seahawks are 50-18. They lost to Green Bay in week 2 of 2015 by 10, they lost to San Diego in week 2 of 2014 by 9, they have lost 5 other games by 7, and the remaining 11 losses were by 6 or less points. 2015 started out with an OT loss to St. Louis in week 1, the 10 point drubbing at the hands of the Packers in Lambeau, and a week 5 OT loss to the Bengals, a week 6 4 pt loss to the buzzsaw Panthers, a week 10 7 pt loss to the Cards, which they made up for with a blasting of their asses in Zona on closing day, and another Rams loss in week 16 by 7.

They should have lost in week 3 to the Lions, but Chancellor knocked the ball out of Johnson's arms at the goal line, but, to even everything out as the cosmos seem to do, they lead in the 4th quarter of every game they played this year. The OT losses were very avoidable. The only game that they really lost control at any time was the Cardinal loss in Seattle, and of course, the playoff game. But to show that they are still a team to be taken seriously, they came out after halftime and played as expected. Total yards for the Panthers-295, of which 80 were in the first 4 minutes of the game. Total rushing yards-144, of which 80 were in the first 4 minutes of the game. I have no idea why they came out so awful. It certainly wasn't because they were afraid of the Panthers, or because the Panthers are a better football team.

This is a serious wait until next year situation.

BTW, Irvin has said he will come back at a reduced price "in order to stay here."

[ultracapper]

And if Graham ultimately does not fit, he will be gone. They had no problem getting rid of the ultra athlete Harvin when it didn't work out. They had no problem not even giving Flynn a chance when Carroll became certain about Wilson leading this team. They'll do the same here if it plays out the same way. Contracts are not a determining factor on player movement or development. They have a really, really, rich owner. They are not an organization that refuses to admit their mistakes. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, and they make the change and they move on. They've proven it a number of times in the Carroll era.

[NJ Stinks]

Fair enough. I wish you guys and Seattle luck next year.

I see the Seahawawks are 10-1 to win it all next year. Only the Patriots (8-1) are lower in the futures so plenty of people believe I'm wrong about Seattle and you guys are right.

[Secondbest]

The NFL is a QB driven league now. Wilson is a top QB. As long as he's there Seattle will be in it.

[Stillriledup]

Think of how differently Brady and Wilson would be viewed had Seattle just handed the ball to beast mode on the final play last February. One play and the entire conversation is different. Brady's status got elevated 10 fold for something that happened while he was on the sidelines.

[thaskalos]

IMO...Seattle was the second-best team in the NFL this year...and that's a long way away from being written off. I was fooled by their slow start this year...and I was quick to declare them dead this season. In a quarterback-driven league...they are in very good hands with Wilson at the controls.

Seattle will remain a major force for a long time.

[Valuist]

I have no idea what these guys are talking about. Let's look at the facts.

The lowest scoring D in the league.
Arguably the best O in the league in the 2nd half of the season.
Highest rated QB in the league going into his 5th year next season.
A RB waiting in the wings to fill the gap if needed.
Name a key player that needs to be signed.
4th straight year with a playoff win. Aside from the Pats, is there another team that can say that?
A rock solid locker room that gets cleaned out when necessary.
A rock solid culture that isn't afraid of a 31-0 halftime deficit.

Here's my take. The Cards better do it this year, because their window gets slammed shut come September. As good as their offense is, it's hardly chink proof. Their RBs are fragile, the face of the franchise is aging, albeit gracefully, but aging all the same. The young WRs have shown a susceptibility to missing time. The QB isn't the most mobile guy out there either. We play in a rock-m-sock-m division. Everybody gets pounded.

I haven't even stated any "ifs". Aside from the opinion stated in the paragraph directly above, these are all facts.

The only ifs out there is, If the O line plays a full season next year, just how good will this O be? If they don't make a flub with D-back personnel next year like they did at CB in the first half of this season, how good will the D be? And that's another example of the Hawks cleaning up their mess when they see it.

I'm very eager to see what the O/U for the Hawks is next season for win total. I believe we are looking at a 13 win season in 2016. I believe we're going to see a little of the "tude" come back also. Frankly, the talk throughout the season was littered with a lot of "pride" and "grit" and stuff like that, but there was, at least in the local media from the team, an under-current of "this is unacceptable", particularly early in the season.

I had Seattle rated between 98-100 for 2012, 2013, and 2014. They were the number 1 team in those seasons, according to my power ratings. They were virtually at those levels all year for those seasons. The highest I had them this season was 97, but that was only in the latter part of the year when they got their act together. The were actually as low as 93-93.5 earlier in the season. Max Unger gone, Byron Maxwell gone, Marshawn Lynch clearly not the same player as 2012-2014. For that matter, Jimmy Graham isn't the same player he was with the Saints.

Wilson? He's tremendous. IMO, he Rodgers and Brady are the top 3 QBs in the league. But the defense is aging. Defense is a young man's game and guys like Sherman clearly isn't the player he used to be. You say 13 wins? I would be shocked to see the folks in Nevada or in the Caribbean post a number of 11 or higher on their 2016 season win total. And if they do, I will drive to Reno and hammer the under.

[delayjf]

Wilson? He's tremendous. IMO, he Rodgers and Brady are the top 3 QBs in the league.

Going to disagree, Wilson has had the benefit of the number 1 defense in the NFL for most of his career. They played a weak schedule when they made their run at the end of the season. He has good games and bad games, he shows brilliance but he's not nearly as consistent game to game as either Brady or Rodgers.

[Stillriledup]

Going to disagree, Wilson has had the benefit of the number 1 defense in the NFL for most of his career. They played a weak schedule when they made their run at the end of the season. He has good games and bad games, he shows brilliance but he's not nearly as consistent game to game as either Brady or Rodgers.

Wilson has more fluctuations on the upside-downside thing from game to game due to his legs. Having that weapon gives him more options and thus, he's making more high risk plays than the others.

Wilson has much less experience than Brady or Rodgers, but even putting him in the conversation with 2 all time greats is the highest compliment.

I agree with the brilliant part, that crazy fall down get up and scramble play is not something Brady can do, but Brady would also not have thrown an interception on the goal line w the Super Bowl on the line either. Tom would have realized that was a crappy play call and tossed the ball away and then handed it to Beast.

[ultracapper]

Wilson has more fluctuations on the upside-downside thing from game to game due to his legs. Having that weapon gives him more options and thus, he's making more high risk plays than the others.

Wilson has much less experience than Brady or Rodgers, but even putting him in the conversation with 2 all time greats is the highest compliment.

I agree with the brilliant part, that crazy fall down get up and scramble play is not something Brady can do, but Brady would also not have thrown an interception on the goal line w the Super Bowl on the line either. Tom would have realized that was a crappy play call and tossed the ball away and then handed it to Beast.

This is a great comment. I think we will see Wilson do that in the future, if it ever comes to that again. At that one point in his career, I don't think he was quite prepared to do anything but trust his coaching staff 100%, and do exactly what was asked of him. 3rd year in the league, 2nd SB, nurtured in the most professional manner possible, I don't think he was ready at that time to do anything other than what was asked of him as well as he could possibly do it. He will realize that doing what you suggest Brady would do isn't treasonous, it's teamwork.

Edit: Wanted to add, living here in Seattle, one of the teams in my fantasy football league is named No-No-No, Don't Pass the Ball, Run It. That very statement must have been said 10,000 times in about 30 seconds right after the play was run.

[thaskalos]

Going to disagree, Wilson has had the benefit of the number 1 defense in the NFL for most of his career. They played a weak schedule when they made their run at the end of the season. He has good games and bad games, he shows brilliance but he's not nearly as consistent game to game as either Brady or Rodgers.

Wilson has been in the league 4 years...and he was the starting Seattle quarterback right from the beginning. No QB in the HISTORY of this game has recorded the QBR that Wilson has put up for the first 4-year period of a quarterback's career. Do I say that this QBR is "perfect"? NO. But it's a quarterback efficiency stat which is not affected by the quality of the DEFENSE that the quarterback is supported by.

[Valuist]

Going to disagree, Wilson has had the benefit of the number 1 defense in the NFL for most of his career. They played a weak schedule when they made their run at the end of the season. He has good games and bad games, he shows brilliance but he's not nearly as consistent game to game as either Brady or Rodgers.

I would say they had two weak opponents in their final 6 games: Cleveland and Baltimore. The other opponents were Pittsburgh, Minnesota, St Louis and Arizona.

[kingfin66]

From King5 TV, here are the Seahawks 2016 free agents by type:

Unrestricted (Can sign with any team)

Russell Okung, T
Jermaine Kearse, WR
J.R. Sweezy, G
Bruce Irvin, LB
Brandon Mebane, DT
Ahtyba Rubin, DT
Jon Ryan, P
Jeremy Lane, CB
Will Tukuafu, FB
Demarcus Dobbs, DE
Tavaris Jackson, QB
Lemuel Jeanpierre, C
Fred Jackson, RB
Chase Coffman, TE
Michael Morgan, LB
Anthony McCoy, TE
Bryce Brown, RB

I have added bold to the players who are starters. It is expected that Bruce Irvin will be a highly sought after FA. He is young, talented and one of the best defensive FAs on the market. Jeremy Lane played very well once he finally made it back from the injuries he suffered in the Super Bowl (a broken arm and torn ACL on the same play!). Mebane and Rubin are the interior DL stalwarts. Expect one of them to return, but I doubt that they can get both. It would be nice to retain both, although Mebane is getting a little old for a football player.

Seattle, like all teams, will have some difficult decisions to make. Their cap situation will not make it easy. Note that there are players who are not FAs who could be cut. The most notable among these is one Marshawn Lynch.

Restricted (Players have until April 22 to sign offer sheet from Seahawks. Seahawks have right to match offers from other teams, but could receive draft compensation if they don’t)

Patrick Lewis, C
Christine Michael, RB
Ricardo Lockette, WR
Derrick Coleman, FB
Alvin Bailey, T
Jesse Williams, DT
Nick Moody, LB

Of this group, Patrick Lewis was the biggest contributor. He started at center during the second half of the season and was solid, but not spectacular. The way things stand now, he is very much needed.

Exclusive Rights (Team must make offer by league-imposed deadline or become unrestricted)

Marcus Burley, CB
Deshawn Shead, S
A.J. Francis, DT
Eric Pinkins, LB
Steven Terrell, S
Mohammed Seisay, CB
Cooper Helfet, TE

Of this last group, Deshawn Shead is the biggest contributor. He actually started some games and has also been the nickle back.

[delayjf]

Wilson has been in the league 4 years...and he was the starting Seattle quarterback right from the beginning. No QB in the HISTORY of this game has recorded the QBR that Wilson has put up for the first 4-year period of a quarterback's career. Do I say that this QBR is "perfect"? NO. But it's a quarterback efficiency stat which is not affected by the quality of the DEFENSE that the quarterback is supported by.

Having the best defense and the number one running game takes a lot of pressure any QB. I don't think Payton, Rodgers, or Brees ever had that luxury.

[NJ Stinks]

Wilson? He's tremendous. IMO, he Rodgers and Brady are the top 3 QBs in the league.

My opinion is that Flacco and Roethlisberger are not taking a backseat to Wilson except when it comes to scrambling. And that advantage will shrink with the passage of time.

And I'm not sure where Brees and Romo fit in all this but I sure can't say I prefer Wilson to be passing the ball instead of those guys.

[thaskalos]

My opinion is that Flacco and Roethlisberger are not taking a backseat to Wilson except when it comes to scrambling. And that advantage will shrink with the passage of time.


What...you figure that Flacco and Roethlisberger will get QUICKER with the passage of time?

[NJ Stinks]

What...you figure that Flacco and Roethlisberger will get QUICKER with the passage of time?

:)

Really, I cannot remember betting the Seahawks primarily because of Wilson. But I will and have played the Steelers and Ravens primarily because of their QB's.

[Valuist]

My opinion is that Flacco and Roethlisberger are not taking a backseat to Wilson except when it comes to scrambling. And that advantage will shrink with the passage of time.

And I'm not sure where Brees and Romo fit in all this but I sure can't say I prefer Wilson to be passing the ball instead of those guys.

I understand some claiming Roethlisberger is at his level. I'd put him in the top 4. But you have got to be joking about Flacco....he's not even top 10.

[NJ Stinks]

I understand some claiming Roethlisberger is at his level. I'd put him in the top 4. But you have got to be joking about Flacco....he's not even top 10.

Rest assured, Valuist, I'm not joking. Flacco has played on teams not nearly as good as Wilson's for Joe's entire career. Yet Joe is 10-5 in the playoffs in his career. Even more impressive is that Joe is 8-5 on the road in the playoffs!

Here's a link to some interesting stats on QB's and their playoff records. (Records are available from QB's that started in 1991 or later.) Joe Flacco doesn't need me to sing his praises - this link says it all about Joe.


link: http://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html?type=post&alltime=1

[ultracapper]

I think of Joe Flacco the same way I think of Eli Manning. Right time and place, they can be wonderful, give them half a chance to kill you, and they'll get that done too.

[Valuist]

Yesterday pretty much leads me to conclude it IS over for Seattle.

But I do chuckle at people thinking stiffs like Flacco and Eli are better than Russell Wilson. Those two are one third the player Wilson is.

[kingfin66]

Yesterday pretty much leads me to conclude it IS over for Seattle.

But I do chuckle at people thinking stiffs like Flacco and Eli are better than Russell Wilson. Those two are one third the player Wilson is.

What about the game makes you think this? The final score? The "eye test?"

Seattle has a disappointing record this year, but the reality is that an NFL team can only withstand so many injuries. Seattle's defense has been injury riddled all season, but things came to a head in the second half of the Jacksonville game when KJ Wright had to leave with a concussion and Bobby Wagner with a hamstring. Wright is still out and Wagner was a mere shadow of his usual self. In fact, his injury is so bad that Earl Thomas suggested that he should not have been playing on it. Here is the body count:

Richard Sherman - played with an injured achilles until it ruptured

Kam Chancellor - out for the season with a neck stinger.

Cliff Avril - out for the season with a neck injury

KJ Wright - concussion

Bobby Wagner - hamstring

Those are all Pro Bowl caliber or All Pro level players that are missing. Of course, all NFL teams deal with injuries, but not at this level. Perhaps it is a sign that the team is getting old.

I think it is a little bit early to write the Seahawks' obituary. This season is likely a lost cause as even winning out, not a given by any means, would not guarantee them the playoffs. They too much help from Atlanta and I don't think they are going to get it. They do have some glaring needs to address in the offseason, but there are still enough weapons on both sides of the ball to give them a chance to get back on top.

[burnsy]

:)

Really, I cannot remember betting the Seahawks primarily because of Wilson. But I will and have played the Steelers and Ravens primarily because of their QB's.

I have, The SB vs Denver I loved the guy even back then. I posted here he would be way better than Luck and people laughed at me.......the guy is top 5 material any day of the week. He's already won one and probably should of won two SB's.

The run is over due to injuries and attrition, its not his fault. The other problem for them now is the La Rams, a team capable of becoming a Tour de Force of their own.

The NFC is tough competition this year, when it comes to crunch time, I don't think Seattle has the horses on defense to hang with the Rams, Vikings or Eagles. They are just depleted this year. The offensive line also lacks. The Rams are reaching full tilt at the right time, they came into Seattle and bludgeoned them. I doubt the Seahawks want any part of that again this season.

[Valuist]

Rest assured, Valuist, I'm not joking. Flacco has played on teams not nearly as good as Wilson's for Joe's entire career. Yet Joe is 10-5 in the playoffs in his career. Even more impressive is that Joe is 8-5 on the road in the playoffs!

Here's a link to some interesting stats on QB's and their playoff records. (Records are available from QB's that started in 1991 or later.) Joe Flacco doesn't need me to sing his praises - this link says it all about Joe.


link: http://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html?type=post&alltime=1

Flacco caught lightning in a bottle for one magical postseason. He's been living off that ever since. He's not a top 10 QB in the league. And he hasn't been that for several years.

[Valuist]

What about the game makes you think this? The final score? The "eye test?"

Seattle has a disappointing record this year, but the reality is that an NFL team can only withstand so many injuries. Seattle's defense has been injury riddled all season, but things came to a head in the second half of the Jacksonville game when KJ Wright had to leave with a concussion and Bobby Wagner with a hamstring. Wright is still out and Wagner was a mere shadow of his usual self. In fact, his injury is so bad that Earl Thomas suggested that he should not have been playing on it. Here is the body count:

Richard Sherman - played with an injured achilles until it ruptured

Kam Chancellor - out for the season with a neck stinger.

Cliff Avril - out for the season with a neck injury

KJ Wright - concussion

Bobby Wagner - hamstring

Those are all Pro Bowl caliber or All Pro level players that are missing. Of course, all NFL teams deal with injuries, but not at this level. Perhaps it is a sign that the team is getting old.

I think it is a little bit early to write the Seahawks' obituary. This season is likely a lost cause as even winning out, not a given by any means, would not guarantee them the playoffs. They too much help from Atlanta and I don't think they are going to get it. They do have some glaring needs to address in the offseason, but there are still enough weapons on both sides of the ball to give them a chance to get back on top.

You mention all these previously top level defensive players who are hurt now. Guess what; that's not random. That's what happens to older defensive players. That's why you don't see many All Pro defenders north of 30.

400 rush yards allowed in their last 2 games. QB ratings against of 124 and 91. They've only forced more than 1 turnover in their last 7 games.

I enjoyed betting this team many times, and contend they were probably the best team in 2012, 2013, and 2014, but that is rear view news now.

[kingfin66]

You mention all these previously top level defensive players who are hurt now. Guess what; that's not random. That's what happens to older defensive players. That's why you don't see many All Pro defenders north of 30.

400 rush yards allowed in their last 2 games. QB ratings against of 124 and 91. They've only forced more than 1 turnover in their last 7 games.

I enjoyed betting this team many times, and contend they were probably the best team in 2012, 2013, and 2014, but that is rear view news now.

Of the players I listed just one, Cliff Avril, is north of 30 years old. I agree that it is true that NFL players become more susceptible to injuries as their careers advance, but I think that there is a randomness these injuries. The injuries to Avril and Chancellor in particular are random as they involve neck injuries. Avril suffered his when another players heel struck in under the chin.

The 400 rush yards are attributable to the injuries and the rushing attack of the teams they played. Same thing for the passing. I don't see much going for them to end this year, but I do believe they will be back next year.

[NJ Stinks]

Flacco caught lightning in a bottle for one magical postseason. He's been living off that ever since. He's not a top 10 QB in the league. And he hasn't been that for several years.

Do you think the Patriots and Steelers are rooting for Flacco and the Ravens to make the playoffs?

Flacco's teams have made the playoffs six times. He is 6-0 in the first playoff game in those six years. In 15 playoff games in total since 2008 Flacco is 2-0 at home and and 8-5 on the road.

You can say Joe was lucky or Joe is a has been. I say Joe is as dangerous as they come when the season is on the line. And I hope he gets a chance to prove it again this year.


link to Joe's playoff stat's: www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog/post/

[burnsy]

Do you think the Patriots and Steelers are rooting for Flacco and the Ravens to make the playoffs?

Flacco's teams have made the playoffs six times. He is 6-0 in the first playoff game in those six years. In 15 playoff games in total since 2008 Flacco is 2-0 at home and and 8-5 on the road.

You can say Joe was lucky or Joe is a has been. I say Joe is as dangerous as they come when the season is on the line. And I hope he gets a chance to prove it again this year.


link to Joe's playoff stat's: www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog/post/

He's like Eli. Neither is the best around but they are both "Poker Players" cooler than Fonzi and ice water in their veins. The really ultra talented QB's, are not used to pressure or mishaps and that's their downfall in the tough times. Eli and Joe can throw a horrible pick or fumble , shake it off and kill you the next set. They are gun slingers. When the money is down and everything is at stake......they don't feel it, if they screw up, they don't remember it. Sometimes, that's just what it takes to win in a close game. They both have beaten some of the best operating this way. Its not always how good you are, sometimes its how good you respond to the moment.

Peyton was not a poker player and neither is Brady or Big Ben. When things go bad you can read it all over their faces and body language. That's the key to beating guys like that.....knock them down hard early and you can beat them. The Giants and Ravens are examples of this.

[lamboguy]

The Steelers have by far the most talent in the league and could overcome their main weakness's with their coach and quarterback should anyone knock off the Patriots before they get to them.

the New England staff just doesn't make mistakes in big games and that is why i think it will be close to impossible for the Steelers to knock them off, but someone else might like the Ravens or Jaguars. those guys have quarterbacks with ice in their veins and also have very well coached teams. The Patriots need to be out-foxed to go down, something that's not happening with my Steelers.

[FakeNameChanged]

He's like Eli. Neither is the best around but they are both "Poker Players" cooler than Fonzi and ice water in their veins. The really ultra talented QB's, are not used to pressure or mishaps and that's their downfall in the tough times. Eli and Joe can throw a horrible pick or fumble , shake it off and kill you the next set. They are gun slingers. When the money is down and everything is at stake......they don't feel it, if they screw up, they don't remember it. Sometimes, that's just what it takes to win in a close game. They both have beaten some of the best operating this way. Its not always how good you are, sometimes its how good you respond to the moment.

Peyton was not a poker player and neither is Brady or Big Ben. When things go bad you can read it all over their faces and body language. That's the key to beating guys like that.....knock them down hard early and you can beat them. The Giants and Ravens are examples of this.
No Ravens fan here, but Joe Flacco still throws the prettiest deep ball in the NFL. Just not that many of them any more.

[Valuist]

Do you think the Patriots and Steelers are rooting for Flacco and the Ravens to make the playoffs?

Flacco's teams have made the playoffs six times. He is 6-0 in the first playoff game in those six years. In 15 playoff games in total since 2008 Flacco is 2-0 at home and and 8-5 on the road.

You can say Joe was lucky or Joe is a has been. I say Joe is as dangerous as they come when the season is on the line. And I hope he gets a chance to prove it again this year.


link to Joe's playoff stat's: www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog/post/

I just saw this post now, and obviously Baltimore won't be in. In January 2018, I guarantee you, neither team is concerned at all with Joe Flacco. When was the last time he won a playoff game? He and Eli are both at the end of the line.

[burnsy]

I just saw this post now, and obviously Baltimore won't be in. In January 2018, I guarantee you, neither team is concerned at all with Joe Flacco. When was the last time he won a playoff game? He and Eli are both at the end of the line.

They are, But its football. They have had long, successful careers. Anyway, neither the Giants or the Ravens are that good. That's where the QB is overrated. If you don't have the team, you have nada. Just ask Eli's Brother, he won one when he was a shell of his former self. The right defense often is what takes the championship games down not the best QB. The Giants stunk this year and the Ravens were mediocre. The only reason the Ravens almost got in is the weak competition in the conference. On the right team, either one could still win. Look at some of the jokers that start in this league now. Eli can't even be evaluated with the crap he was stuck with. They are afraid to even give the rookie a shot, for his own good, that's how bad that team is.