Rousey gets KO'd

[Valuist]

In the second round at that. This is an absolute monumental upset.

[ManU918]

In the second round at that. This is an absolute monumental upset.

Given Holm's background and the odds I slightly disagree. When I seen that Rousey was only -2000 I became very suspicious. Not saying that its not an upset because I really don't know that much about MMA but from what i've been reading and hearing on TV, people in the know wouldn't shut up about how much of a better corner Holm has and that she could throw down. Holm was also undefeated (MMA) coming into the fight and only had a few losses in boxing (33-2-3). I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Rousey makes a change to her corner.

[tucker6]

I disagree as well. The surprise for me would have been Rousey winning. Holm is very good too. Rousey is good, but has been mightily distracted recently and that is never good when training. You could tell her preparation for the match was subpar. She had no answer for the left jab. The line was begging you to put your cash on Rousey.

[ronsmac]

It surprised me. Not too many rise to the top with a boxing/ kick boxing background. They're usually at a huge disadvantage in the clinches, though I've heard she had pretty good takedown defense. Holm was tremendous from the word go and even managed a takedown of Rousey. I don't think anyone expected that, other than people in her own camp.

[mountainman]

Just taking a wild guess that Rousey might want to put that Mayweather fight on hold.....

[horses4courses]

The surprise for me would have been Rousey winning.

That says much about your knowledge, or lack thereof, on odds and betting.
To say that you would be shocked had a 1-20 favorite won borders on insane.

There was no "begging for money" as if "the fix" was in.
Bookmakers need to try to balance the action on events.
The $20-100 bettor never even contemplates betting 1-20, or -2000.
When they are getting 10, or 12-1, on the underdog, the liability
for the bookie rises pretty fast.
The -2000 probably went a fair bit lower than that.
The reason? Supply and demand - balancing the books. Nothing more.

I know nothing about MMA, and that's by choice.
I have worked with odds on both sides of the counter for many years.
Booking head to head events, such as this one, yield few surprises to me.

[cj]

She didn't just get knocked out, she was never in the fight for a second. She was totally dominated.

[Valuist]

I wonder if she was distracted by the rumors of domestic abuse (her against an ex b/f; not the other way around).

[tucker6]

That says much about your knowledge, or lack thereof, on odds and betting.
To say that you would be shocked had a 1-20 favorite won borders on insane.

There was no "begging for money" as if "the fix" was in.
Bookmakers need to try to balance the action on events.
The $20-100 bettor never even contemplates betting 1-20, or -2000.
When they are getting 10, or 12-1, on the underdog, the liability
for the bookie rises pretty fast.
The -2000 probably went a fair bit lower than that.
The reason? Supply and demand - balancing the books. Nothing more.

I know nothing about MMA, and that's by choice.
I have worked with odds on both sides of the counter for many years.
Booking head to head events, such as this one, yield few surprises to me.
I didn't say shocked. I said surprised. Two different words. Holm was the better fighter. Rousey was the better brawler. Once you neutralize the brawler, the rest as they say is history.

Anyway, I wasn't really talking about the odds per se. She was on the receiving end of the hype machine. Those rarely work out well. She sort of reminds me of Mike Tyson. If you can weather the initial storm and have some skill yourself, the Rouseys of the world are eminently beatable.

[Valuist]

But to be "surprised" at the thought of a 1-20 shot winning is pretty laughable.

[cj]

But to be "surprised" at the thought of a 1-20 shot winning is pretty laughable.


If true, he should retiring to Aruba any day now.

[tucker6]

But to be "surprised" at the thought of a 1-20 shot winning is pretty laughable.
The only people surprised by my comment are those who were taken in by the hype.

[horses4courses]

The only people surprised by my comment are those who were taken in by the hype.

The only thing that would prove your initial statement
would be some wagers on the winning underdog.

[Valuist]

Deadspin did a piece yesterday about both Rousey and Holm, and while they tried to build Holm up, they pretty much acknowledged that it would be a huge upset if Holm were to win.

http://deadspin.com/ronda-rouseys-latest-challenger-is-entirely-legit-and-h-1741777603?utm_source=taboola

[tucker6]

we're now quoting deadspin as the authority on mma? Holy mackeral batman.

[tucker6]

The only thing that would prove your initial statement
would be some wagers on the winning underdog.
the 'laughable' underdog is 8-0 in mma and is a former world champion boxer. Would you have made her a 1-20 dog to Rousey?

[thaskalos]

Holm was the better fighter. Rousey was the better brawler. Once you neutralize the brawler, the rest as they say is history.

She was on the receiving end of the hype machine. Those rarely work out well. She sort of reminds me of Mike Tyson. If you can weather the initial storm and have some skill yourself, the Rouseys of the world are eminently beatable.

Comments like these are impressive only when they are made BEFORE the fight.

[tucker6]

Comments like these are impressive only when they are made BEFORE the fight.
my comment wasn't made as a predictor of the fight. I think it was well known that their styles differed, and we should all know that one dimensional fighters, just like race horses, are vulnerable. I honestly didn't know who would win last night, but I wasn't surprised by the outcome either.

The only thing I object to is calling that a monumental upset when it was not really one. To those not buying the hype, it was a mild upset at best. Yes, easy to say after the fact I admit, but not difficult to see if you want to see.

[horses4courses]

the 'laughable' underdog is 8-0 in mma and is a former world champion boxer. Would you have made her a 1-20 dog to Rousey?

As I said, I know nothing about MMA.
Had I been booking it, I would have used the consensus line,
put it on the board, and held my breath.
Used to do that with Nascar a lot. :eek:

[thaskalos]

The only thing I object to is calling that a monumental upset when it was not really one. To those not buying the hype, it was a mild upset at best. Yes, easy to say after the fact I admit, but not difficult to see if you want to see.
You said earlier that you would have been more surprised by a Rousey VICTORY. Considering that Rousey was a 1/20 favorite...comments like these are usually accompanied by a bet on the other side. Betting opportunities like these are mighty rare...

[horses4courses]

Betting opportunities like these are mighty rare...

Exactly right.
If you think a 10-1 underdog has better
than a 25-33% chance of winning, it
begs the question: What are you waiting for?

[Stillriledup]

Does vegas or any offshore books take betting on women's MMA?

[horses4courses]

Does vegas or any offshore books take betting on women's MMA?

Definitely on Rousey bouts
Many of them, at least

[Valuist]

the 'laughable' underdog is 8-0 in mma and is a former world champion boxer. Would you have made her a 1-20 dog to Rousey?

Oh so you are smarter than the linesmakers? What would you have made her?

I don't bet UFC, so I couldn't put a price on the fight. But I haven't heard anyone say Rousey should've been a tepid 3-5 favorite.

[NorCalGreg]

Comments like these are impressive only when they are made BEFORE the fight.


Thank you, thask. Never heard any of this pre-fight.

[Stillriledup]

Definitely on Rousey bouts
Many of them, at least

Interesting, I thought they might treat this like pro wrestling and vuew matches as setups and whatnut.

[horses4courses]

What's gotten into those Bears???

They're starting to look like a football team right now.
Scary........ :eek:

[ronsmac]

The only people surprised by my comment are those who were taken in by the hype.I'm sure you were all over it and it was a good call if you made it, but the only person I saw giving Holm a real chance of victory was Rashad Evans, but they trained at the same gym so I'm sure he was biased. Typically a boxer gets killed at this level in mma. Holm won a decision over Reneau who's not top 10 last fight and a split decision over Pennington who's not a top 10 fighter two fights back. There was some outrage that she didn't even deserve the title shot. So it was a monumental upset. Like Cj said, Holm dominated from the word go the same way Douglass dominated Tyson from the word go. The comparisons are eerily similar. Tyson was reportedly troubled before the Douglass fight, and Rousey has continued her chaotic schedule and seemed a little shaken at the weigh in.

[Tom]

I smell a Rhonda Rousey vs Sasha Banks Wrestlemania match.

[thaskalos]

What's gotten into those Bears???

They're starting to look like a football team right now.
Scary........ :eek:
Don't be misled...it's an optical illusion. On their best day, the Bears are only "average". But...with the inconsistency of the NFC..."average" can take you a long way this year. Take the Panthers out of the equation...and any other NFC team could easily be beaten by ANYONE else.

[NorCalGreg]

I smell a Rhonda Rousey vs Sasha Banks Wrestlemania match.

I'd pay to see a Rhonda Rousey/Azalea Banks Prison Rules fight

(If you have to ask who Azalea Banks is----you're not too old for google)

[RunForTheRoses]

On the pay per view feed Rousey was listed at -1200 and Holm +700.

I had seen Holm's first UFC fight and it was underwhelming. She came into the fight with a lot of hype and won but did not dominate. I did not see her subsequent fights.

Her Fight camp, Greg Jackson out of New Mexico is arguably the greatest stable (maybe not the word but I'm a horseplayer). They have GSP, Jon Jones and many other champs/great fighters and are known for their great fight strategies (even if boring, not the case in this one).

I read Ronda's book and I somewhat like her but am glad she lost. Very arrogant. Wouldn't touch gloves. Wouldn't shake hands with Miesha Tate. I'm glad she was humbled.

That said, a better camp would be a good idea. Almost always ground game beats striking. Rousey is an Olympic level Judoka. She should have just tried to take it to the ground and snap her arm off. She had no business striking but...previously there had been no one near Holm's level of striking ability.

[Marshall Bennett]

I never watch. Just curious, without padded gloves do these women ever get seriously hurt? Then when the woman's down, the other pounces on her and starts beat her face. Seems kinda barbaric.
And they don't allow bullfighting in this country because it's cruel to a bull. :lol:

[PhantomOnTour]

I never watch. Just curious, without padded gloves do these women ever get seriously hurt? Then when the woman's down, the other pounces on her and starts beat her face. Seems kinda barbaric.
And they don't allow bullfighting in this country because it's cruel to a bull. :lol:
Same here - I cannot watch women fight, period.

[RunForTheRoses]

I never watch. Just curious, without padded gloves do these women ever get seriously hurt? Then when the woman's down, the other pounces on her and starts beat her face. Seems kinda barbaric.
And they don't allow bullfighting in this country because it's cruel to a bull. :lol:

I'm not a fan of female MMA. There was a UFC season, can;t remember the name of the show, they put fighters in a house and they fight each other, and it just seemed F ed up seeing some of them. At the elite level you have to throw your whole self, face and all into the mix. This can be tough to watch even with males:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWUGMXDxWIk

[RunForTheRoses]

http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx72/sockeye13/Mobile%20Uploads/D4D93A3B-2673-4B13-A3F7-24E6B74590C2_zpsw77jbrdr.png

I'm glad she was humbled

[tucker6]

Oh so you are smarter than the linesmakers? What would you have made her?

I don't bet UFC, so I couldn't put a price on the fight. But I haven't heard anyone say Rousey should've been a tepid 3-5 favorite.
With all the hype on Rousey, she was an underlay plain and simple. What I can't understand is that everyone on here is butthurt about my comments on an outcome that each and every one of you has seen happen MANY times over the years with overhyped people and/or horses. You guys got emotionally invested in Rousey and don't want to admit it.

[PhantomOnTour]

I disagree as well. The surprise for me would have been Rousey winning. Holm is very good too. Rousey is good, but has been mightily distracted recently and that is never good when training. You could tell her preparation for the match was subpar. She had no answer for the left jab. The line was begging you to put your cash on Rousey.
Okay, so I finally watched the fight, reluctantly.
It wasn't the left jab - it was the straight left that Rousey couldn't deal with.

Holm is a southpaw and it looked to me that Rousey hadn't prepared for a lefty, period. She was eating those straight lefts until one of them stunned her and the kick finished her off.

UNPREPARED & OVERCONFIDENT
(didn't she see Rocky 2? or 3? or 4?)

[ronsmac]

Okay, so I finally watched the fight, reluctantly.
It wasn't the left jab - it was the straight left that Rousey couldn't deal with.

Holm is a southpaw and it looked to me that Rousey hadn't prepared for a lefty, period. She was eating those straight lefts until one of them stunned her and the kick finished her off.

UNPREPARED & OVERCONFIDENT
(didn't she see Rocky 2? or 3? or 4?)I'm I'm no expert, but I've watched a lot of MMA. All of the great ones get beat. Gsp, A. Silva ,Fedor etc. It'll be interesting to6see how Jon Jones comes back from suspension. There's so many ways to lose. Still, very few people saw this one coming. I certainly didn't. I'm hoping this doesn't hurt women's MMA.

[ManU918]

I'm I'm no expert, but I've watched a lot of MMA. All of the great ones get beat. Gsp, A. Silva ,Fedor etc. It'll be interesting to6see how Jon Jones comes back from suspension. There's so many ways to lose. Still, very few people saw this one coming. I certainly didn't. I'm hoping this doesn't hurt women's MMA.

The great ones get beat but I sure hope you're not saying Ronda is great. What has she proven? GSP for instance lost 2 fights and came back and defeated both guys (Hughes and Serra). After his second loss GSP ran off 11 straight wins against very respected fighters. Ronda IMO has a lot to prove.

[ronsmac]

The great ones get beat but I sure hope you're not saying Ronda is great. What has she proven? GSP for instance lost 2 fights and came back and defeated both guys (Hughes and Serra). After his second loss GSP ran off 11 straight wins against very respected fighters. Ronda IMO has a lot to prove.As far as the women are concerned, I'd have to call her great. She beat just about every top Bantanweight going into Saturday's fight. The majority weren't even competitive. Women's Mma hasn't been around very long, but she was dominant in those 2 or3 years. She never fought anyone with the boxing ability of Holm, so that's the1st time she ate so many punches. Meisha is a wrestler, Zangano and Bethe don't have Holm's stand-up skills either. I figured she would take her time, get her in clinches,take her down and submit her. The rematch will be very interesting, assuming Holm doesn't have a fight or loss in between.

[Stillriledup]

Insiders crushed vegas.

[horses4courses]

Insiders crushed vegas.

Source?

[Stillriledup]

Source?

Michael Kay show on yes network was talking about it.

[PICSIX]

Source?

Found this:

http://m.reviewjournal.com/sports/betting/most-books-got-crushed-holm-s-upset-rousey-ufc-193

[classhandicapper]

Matchups are important in boxing and I assume MMA. I'm not a huge MMA fan, but I saw all of Rousey's fights. So many of them ended quickly, it was hard to get a good line on her, but I saw weaknesses. I could tell she wasn't an elite boxer. In one contest she got kind of gassed without much of reason for it. I knew she was beatable, but it was going to take a unique combination of superior boxing skills and the defense to stay away being taken down or put into the arm bar. I was told by someone that is expert in the sport that this other girl was the superior boxer and had a corner than would give her the perfect fight plan. But he told me that the only logical bet he saw was to take the over 1 1/2 rounds. He thought the challenger would have no problem keeping Rousey away for that long with boxing and kicking skills. It wound up being under because he was TOO right. :lol:

[horses4courses]

To say that "insiders" crushed the books in Vegas smacks of fiction.
True, I'm sure plenty of books lost money on the fight, but to say it
was a bunch of Aussie MMA gurus, or even American ones, heading to
LV with suitcases full of cash is highly unlikely .

If you read seasoned book director Jay Kornegay's (now with Westgate)
comments on the action, he sums up the situation accurately:

Westgate sports book director Jay Kornegay said he accepted multiple wagers for $20,000 to win $2,000 on Rousey before closing Holm at plus-800.

"We took four limit bets on Rousey about 20 minutes before the first bell," Kornegay said. "I wasn't feeling that comfortable accepting them at the time, but it worked out for us. We broke even on the fight.

"The results around town were not good. Most books got crushed, as typical underdog betting was popular. The low-risk, high-reward scenario was appealing, as usual."

There was no insider barrage here, or anywhere else in Nevada.
What you have is the popularity of underdog wagering on PPV fights.
Give them a "hero v. villain" scenario, should the dog happen to
be the hero, the action will be even more lopsided.
The books who lost the most here were the ones with management
that viewed Rousey as the Titantic of female fighters.

They saw her as unsinkable, and rubbed their hands as the action grew
on the underdog. They made only minor adjustments to the line as the
liability rose, and they saw it as a formality that they wouldn't lose.
The sum they were going to win was peanuts compared to a big football
game, but hey - a win's a win. Personal bias and opinion has no place
in booking sporting events. The bookmakers who flirt with disaster
usually end up going there, sooner or later.

Smart, experienced, linemakers like Kornegay do it right.
They move the line as the action dictates.

[davew]

Does vegas or any offshore books take betting on women's MMA?


another article describing NV sportsbooks
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/19638-vegas-sports-books-hit-hard-by-ronda-rousey-loss


If she gives up MMA, she did a good job as an actress in Furious 7

[tucker6]

To say that "insiders" crushed the books in Vegas smacks of fiction.
True, I'm sure plenty of books lost money on the fight, but to say it
was a bunch of Aussie MMA gurus, or even American ones, heading to
LV with suitcases full of cash is highly unlikely .

If you read seasoned book director Jay Kornegay's (now with Westgate)
comments on the action, he sums up the situation accurately:



There was no insider barrage here, or anywhere else in Nevada.
What you have is the popularity of underdog wagering on PPV fights.
Give them a "hero v. villain" scenario, should the dog happen to
be the hero, the action will be even more lopsided.
The books who lost the most here were the ones with management
that viewed Rousey as the Titantic of female fighters.

They saw her as unsinkable, and rubbed their hands as the action grew
on the underdog. They made only minor adjustments to the line as the
liability rose, and they saw it as a formality that they wouldn't lose.
The sum they were going to win was peanuts compared to a big football
game, but hey - a win's a win. Personal bias and opinion has no place
in booking sporting events. The bookmakers who flirt with disaster
usually end up going there, sooner or later.

Smart, experienced, linemakers like Kornegay do it right.
They move the line as the action dictates.
smart post :ThmbUp: