DERBYWARS

[v j stauffer]

Playing in a 12 person Aqueduct game today if anyone would like to follow along and check out the site.

$370 entry.

1st $3000

2nd $1000

derbywars.com

[DRIVEWAY]

Will follow along.

Good Luck

[BreadandButter]

Are these considered sweepstakes as opposed to gambling? If so, do you receive at 1099-MISC for each contest winnings over $600 and 1099-MISCs totaling up all smaller ones at the end of the year?

Are you then able to deduct the costs of entering these sweepstakes from the winnings at the end of the year for tax purposes?

[v j stauffer]

Are these considered sweepstakes as opposed to gambling? If so, do you receive at 1099-MISC for each contest winnings over $600 and 1099-MISCs totaling up all smaller ones at the end of the year?

Are you then able to deduct the costs of entering these sweepstakes from the winnings at the end of the year for tax purposes?

Just a 1099 at the end of the year.

Losses can be set against winnings for taxes.

As for sweepstakes vs gambling. I expect the horse racing tourney sites are watching closely how things shake out with Draft Kings and Fan Duel on the sports side.

[Stillriledup]

4440 in entry fees and 4000 is giveback? They keep 440 as takeout?

[v j stauffer]

Tonight on DerbyWars there's a charity tournament benefitting Second Stride.

You can play up to 3 entries all at $20 per.

$800 to the winner.

I'll be in there along with some of the elite tournament players in the country.

Barbara Bowley

Anthony Trezza

Former NHC champion Michael Beychok

2014 NHC tour champion Brent Sumja.

There's game chat for trash talking.

Should be lot's of fun for a good cause.

Let's see PA well represented.

[BreadandButter]

Just a 1099 at the end of the year.

Losses can be set against winnings for taxes.

As for sweepstakes vs gambling. I expect the horse racing tourney sites are watching closely how things shake out with Draft Kings and Fan Duel on the sports side.


So just one 1099 at year end? Do they withhold anything on large wins (i.e., winnings over $5k) during the year?

[ronsmac]

Just a 1099 at the end of the year.

Losses can be set against winnings for taxes.

As for sweepstakes vs gambling. I expect the horse racing tourney sites are watching closely how things shake out with Draft Kings and Fan Duel on the sports side.
That's a real bummer. Our tax laws really suck. Play 50k in tournaments in a year , only get back 40k and you get a 1099. Even writing off the losses it may push your gross income to a level that screws up some of your itemized deductions.

[JimG]

Vic,

I stopped by and said hi prior to the last race of your contest, but must have missed you. I have been a member there since the beginning. It is a great site and I never had any issues getting paid.

I don't play the horses much any longer but do occasionally play a small contest on the site. Cannot believe how the site has grown through the years.

Continued success.

Jim

[PICSIX]

4440 in entry fees and 4000 is giveback? They keep 440 as takeout?

Yes, 10% takeout.

[Mulerider]

Playing in a 12 person Aqueduct game today if anyone would like to follow along and check out the site.

Nice hit in the 8th! In striking distance now.

[JimG]

Exciting finish as Vic won the contest and $3000 Nice job!

Jim

[Mulerider]

Congratulations! Were you just a little nervous after the 7th, or did you have 'em right where you wanted 'em?

[Stillriledup]

Yes, 10% takeout.

Thanks.

[v j stauffer]

Nice hit in the 8th! In striking distance now.

Thanks Mule.

Turned out OK.

[v j stauffer]

Exciting finish as Vic won the contest and $3000 Nice job!

Jim

Big fun!

Thanks for the rooting.

Playing a winner take all at Del Mar.

Let's keep it going :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

That's a real bummer. Our tax laws really suck. Play 50k in tournaments in a year , only get back 40k and you get a 1099. Even writing off the losses it may push your gross income to a level that screws up some of your itemized deductions.

So essentially, they're signers? (Meaning you're signing for the cash w SS number on the day you hit)

[lamboguy]

Big fun!

Thanks for the rooting.

Playing a winner take all at Del Mar.

Let's keep it going :ThmbUp:glad you won, keep it up

[v j stauffer]

glad you won, keep it up

Thanks P.

[EMD4ME]

Congratulations Vic! You are really setting an example sir and should be proud :)

I sent you a PM with a few questions. If you don't mind, please help bring me to speed with this on line tournament stuff.

And good luck this weekend at Delmar. Keep the mojo moving forward.

[BreadandButter]

Very impressive Vic. :ThmbUp:

[EMD4ME]

With Vic's blessing the following is a PM that might answer some more questions......




Originally Posted by EMD4ME
Hey Vic,

Congrats on yet another win! Good man... Keep the mojo going and kill em this weekend too.

I have what might seem to be some remedial questions for you. Please forgive as this is ALL foreign territory for me.

1) If I play head to head for let's 500 bucks. WInner gets $950 or whatever the number is. Do I get a W-2G (or 1099) as it's over $600?

2) Do you select 1 winner for each race? Yes, I understand there are alternate selections for a late scratch but is it my top horse (1 bet) for each race?

3) Are all bets equal? (for example:9 race contest. Is each race worth the same?)

4) I have many deposit issues as my banks/credit cards block on line gambling transactions. (Except for Twin Spires and NYRA as they take checking account ACH transactions to fund). How does that work with Derbywars?

5) I see many contest winners average about $13 a return, per race, does that sound about right? ($2 WP contests over 9 races)

6) Are all Derbywars contests WP, Win and that's it? Meaning....do they ever have freeform contests? (Bet what you want however you want)

I'm sure I have more, this is the 1st round of Q's I guess.

Congrats again.

Thanks in advance.

EMD4ME


1. They issue a 1099 at the end of the year. You can offset it with losing contests and losing tickets from the track. There is no withholding.

2,3 & 6. Each race is a mythical $2.00 win/place on your first selection. The alternate is only for late scratches. If both scratch late you get the favorite. Almost all games are the same format. They do have what they call survivor games which are a last-longer to show. They have both live, which means you can change your pick up to post time. And LOCKDOWN which means all picks from all players must be in before the 1st race of the contest.

4. Don't know about funding the account other than debit or credit. They have a link for support on the site. I'm sure they can answer those questions.

5. I don't think it's that high. I would guess around $8.00 per race would do it. I play only the highest buy in games so I guess it might be a bit higher there.

Happy to answer anything I can.

Thanks for the congrats.

You might want to post these questions and answers. I expect other PA members might be interested.

Good luck.

VJS
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" May Rose Prizzi

[Tall One]

Big fun!

Thanks for the rooting.

Playing a winner take all at Del Mar.

Let's keep it going :ThmbUp:


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[v j stauffer]

Back in it at the BIG A.

Need another excellent PA rooting section.

LET'S GO! :cool:

[v j stauffer]

3rd at Aqueduct.

Got lucky and took the Del Mar contest. $1500.

I could feel the love through this thread all day long. :jump: :jump:

Gave my DEL MAR FALL CLASSIC entry to my friend Paul Hughes tomorrow.

Tina not feeling well and he only has 1 NHC entry. I already have 2 and can't win another.

[EMD4ME]

Vic,

Not doubting your answers but I need clarification on just one question:

If I bet $100 heads up and collect $190. Am I getting a 1099 for the $190?

Or is there a cutoff, like $600 for every $2 bet like the normal game has?

Thanks,

EMD4ME

P.S. Forgive the stupidity but why is it a 1099 and not a W-2G?

[EMD4ME]

I have another stupid question.

Why are tracks OK with DerbyWars and alike? Is there some sort of arrangement where they receive something?

Every national anthem, I hear about how "This is a copyrighted broadcast of the New York Racing Association. Any rebroadcast, transmission or other use is prohibited without the expressed written consent of the New York Racing Association".

I only see these sights encouraging money leaving the pools, how is it ok with the racetracks?

[v j stauffer]

Vic,

Not doubting your answers but I need clarification on just one question:

If I bet $100 heads up and collect $190. Am I getting a 1099 for the $190?

Or is there a cutoff, like $600 for every $2 bet like the normal game has?

Thanks,

EMD4ME

P.S. Forgive the stupidity but why is it a 1099 and not a W-2G?

For that just to make exactly sure I suggest you contact DerbyWars support directly.

[v j stauffer]

I have another stupid question.

Why are tracks OK with DerbyWars and alike? Is there some sort of arrangement where they receive something?

Every national anthem, I hear about how "This is a copyrighted broadcast of the New York Racing Association. Any rebroadcast, transmission or other use is prohibited without the expressed written consent of the New York Racing Association".

I only see these sights encouraging money leaving the pools, how is it ok with the racetracks?

I have no idea how the tracks feel about DerbyWars.

If I was a track I expect I wouldn't be real thrilled.

[NorCalGreg]

Thanks Mule.

Turned out OK.

Maybe EMD better rethink this whole thing. Seems we may have underestimated Vic. :ThmbUp:
Tell ya what...if thask will wire ME the money, I'll go up against ya, Vic. I ain't a'skeerd (as long as it's thask's money) :lol:

I'll bet ya I win, too (again, betting with thask's money)

[EMD4ME]

Maybe EMD better rethink this whole thing. Seems we may have underestimated Vic. :ThmbUp:
Tell ya what...if thask will wire ME the money, I'll go up against ya, Vic. I ain't a'skeerd (as long as it's thask's money) :lol:

I'll bet ya I win, too (again, betting with thask's money)

Whooooaaaaa LOL. Hold your horses. I'm playing in next weekend's AQU contest to get my feet wet. (much better rules vs. Debywars in MHO but it's a start)

Vic challenged me. And after I saw how great VIC is at this, I want first dibs. No offense my friend.....

Vic,

What I must admit is hard is playing the contest and then focusing on my normal plays. It's like living 2 lives LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

[EMD4ME]

For that just to make exactly sure I suggest you contact DerbyWars support directly.

Thanks Vic.

[v j stauffer]

Maybe EMD better rethink this whole thing. Seems we may have underestimated Vic. :ThmbUp:
Tell ya what...if thask will wire ME the money, I'll go up against ya, Vic. I ain't a'skeerd (as long as it's thask's money) :lol:

I'll bet ya I win, too (again, betting with thask's money)

Anytime, anywhere, anybody, any amount.

[EMD4ME]

I have no idea how the tracks feel about DerbyWars.

If I was a track I expect I wouldn't be real thrilled.

If the tracks had a NY state politician looking out, I'd bet my life they'd kill this fantasy stuff.

Anyway, doesn't matter. It is what it is.

[v j stauffer]

Whooooaaaaa LOL. Hold your horses. I'm playing in next weekend's AQU contest to get my feet wet. (much better rules vs. Debywars in MHO but it's a start)

Vic challenged me. And after I saw how great VIC is at this, I want first dibs. No offense my friend.....

Vic,

What I must admit is hard is playing the contest and then focusing on my normal plays. It's like living 2 lives LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lockdowns help with that.

[EMD4ME]

Lockdowns help with that.

Goooooood advice......Much obliged sir.

[ReplayRandall]

Anytime, anywhere, anybody, any amount.

No exceptions?.. :cool:

[v j stauffer]

No exceptions?.. :cool:

:cool:

[NorCalGreg]

Anytime, anywhere, anybody, any amount.

It's not easy attempting any conversation with you, Vic. Did you really read that post as some sort of challenge......and not a compliment?

[ReplayRandall]

:cool:

You're too hot right now... I'll wait until you cool off, right after the NHC.. :ThmbUp:

[v j stauffer]

It's not easy attempting any conversation with you, Vic. Did you really read that post as some sort of challenge......and not a compliment?

Of course. But a good natured one.

If we can't talk a little smack on here.

Where then?

Relax!

[thaskalos]

Anytime, anywhere, anybody, any amount.
Our compliments and best wishes have created a monster...

[v j stauffer]

Our compliments and best wishes have created a monster...

I don't recall a lot of compliments and best wishes from you.

But that's cool.

Like I said. It's just for fun. The only thing that matters is how we do when the gate opens.

There are a lot of great handicappers on this site. I'm hoping to be one of them.

Also still hoping you intend to send out thousands to others backing them against me.

Anytime, anywhere, anyone, any amount. :cool:

[thaskalos]

I don't recall a lot of compliments and best wishes from you.

But that's cool.

Like I said. It's just for fun. The only thing that matters is how we do when the gate opens.

There are a lot of great handicappers on this site. I'm hoping to be one of them.

Also still hoping you intend to send out thousands to others backing them against me.

Anytime, anywhere, anyone, any amount. :cool:

I know...but it would have sounded awkward if I wrote..."YOUR compliments and best wishes ...", especially since I was aiming my post at you.

You know nothing about me...so, I don't blame you for thinking that your little winning streak here is intimidating me. Give me a week to figure this tournament format out...and I'll take you on myself.

In the meantime...enjoy your success while it lasts. :cool:

[NorCalGreg]

I know...but it would have sounded awkward if I wrote..."YOUR compliments and best wishes ...", especially since I was aiming my post at you.

You know nothing about me...so, I don't blame you for thinking that your little winning streak here is intimidating me. Give me a week to figure this tournament format out...and I'll take you on myself.

In the meantime...enjoy your success while it lasts. :cool:

There are a lot of big talkers online, thask...but for some reason, you don't seem to be guilty of the usual blow-hardism of losers when they get safely behind a keyboard.
Vic has got to be pretty good, but I'm sure you already realize that. Whoever takes on Vic...should be fun
later
-NCG☮

[v j stauffer]

I know...but it would have sounded awkward if I wrote..."YOUR compliments and best wishes ...", especially since I was aiming my post at you.

You know nothing about me...so, I don't blame you for thinking that your little winning streak here is intimidating me. Give me a week to figure this tournament format out...and I'll take you on myself.

In the meantime...enjoy your success while it lasts. :cool:

What would give you the impression I give a rats ass about intimidating you?

The only thing that matters is what happens when the starting gate opens.

[Mulerider]

I only see these sights encouraging money leaving the pools, how is it ok with the racetracks?

Yesterday the Hawthorne simulcast feed was occasionally promoting an upcoming Derby Wars tournament on a small strip at the bottom of the screen. It didn't appear to be a paid ad, but I wasn't paying close attention. So I don't know if was for an upcoming Hawthorne-specific tournament or one of the NHC qualifiers. At any rate, it would be interesting to know the relationship between Derby Wars and the track.

[EMD4ME]

Yesterday the Hawthorne simulcast feed was occasionally promoting an upcoming Derby Wars tournament on a small strip at the bottom of the screen. It didn't appear to be a paid ad, but I wasn't paying close attention. So I don't know if was for an upcoming Hawthorne-specific tournament or one of the NHC qualifiers. At any rate, it would be interesting to know the relationship between Derby Wars and the track.

Were they promoting it as a .20 cent buy in? ;) :D :D

(Almost everything at Haw is .20 cents.)

[chenoa]

Vic and his posts are just as entertaining as his race calls were!! :lol: :lol:


:cool:

[NorCalGreg]

Vic and his posts are just as entertaining as his race calls were!! :lol: :lol:


:cool:

Was he calling the jockeys that didn't win a f****** moron?

[ReplayRandall]

Was he calling the jockeys that didn't win a f****** moron?

No, he saves that for the jockey critics and conspiracists, here at PA......It's a very exclusive club, don't you know?.. ;)

[thaskalos]

Vic and his posts are just as entertaining as his race calls were!! :lol: :lol:


:cool:
True. It boggles the mind that an entertaining announcer like that is left without a job...when race-callers who are MUCH inferior are still employed within the industry.

[NorCalGreg]

No, he saves that for the jockey critics and conspiracists, here at PA......It's a very exclusive club, don't you know?.. ;)

hmmmm....now that you mention it, RR, all you have to be to join THAT club...is,well.. that reminds me--I used to have a co-worker, who never used profanity at all (was some kinda weirdo), but instead of even calling someone a
moron.....he would say-- what a "maroon" So yes, Randall, to put it politely, there are a few MAROONS here, F'ing and otherwise. :D

[chenoa]

hmmmm....now that you mention it, RR, all you have to be to join THAT club...is,well.. that reminds me--I used to have a co-worker, who never used profanity at all (was some kinda weirdo), but instead of even calling someone a
moron.....he would say-- what a "maroon" So yes, Randall, to put it politely, there are a few MAROONS here, F'ing and otherwise. :D

Wasn't there a hockey team in Montreal once called the MAROONS!!! :lol: :lol:

:cool:

[Stillriledup]

True. It boggles the mind that an entertaining announcer like that is left without a job...when race-callers who are MUCH inferior are still employed within the industry.

Why would you need a job if you're challenging elite gamblers, with unknown talents, to 'any amount'.

[NorCalGreg]

Why would you need a job if you're challenging elite gamblers, with unknown talents, to 'any amount'.

"elite gamblers"??.....I'll give you the "unknown talents" :lol:

I suppose Vic is guilty of blow-hardism, but we all are, to a degree. It's not easy to get a point across, in plain text...without overdoing it. Or make a joke, and half the readers will read it at face value, and not get the humor at all.
Ya just end up coming off like a maroon. Nahmsayin?

[Tor Ekman]

I believe the great Bugs Bunny coined the phrase "what a maroon!"

[Mulerider]

I believe the great Bugs Bunny coined the phrase "what a maroon!"

"I dream of Jeanie, she's a light brown hare." -- B. Bunny

(Since the thread has long since jumped the rails...)

[Si2see]

What would give you the impression I give a rats ass about intimidating you?

The only thing that matters is what happens when the starting gate opens.


Stick to beating up on the 12 player weekday games. When you are the best handicapper in the room it can be like taking candy from a baby. When you play in the 25k Saturday games for instance it's tough being the best in the room and takes a lot of luck.

Keep up the good work :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

"elite gamblers"??.....I'll give you the "unknown talents" :lol:

I suppose Vic is guilty of blow-hardism, but we all are, to a degree. It's not easy to get a point across, in plain text...without overdoing it. Or make a joke, and half the readers will read it at face value, and not get the humor at all.
Ya just end up coming off like a maroon. Nahmsayin?

I nahmyasayin! (Love it!)

I think the problem with 'point across' Is that people aren't going to change their POV due to what others are saying. Instead of just making their point and leaving it alone, battles ensue, people aren't too respectful of a differing opinion.

[v j stauffer]

True. It boggles the mind that an entertaining announcer like that is left without a job...when race-callers who are MUCH inferior are still employed within the industry.

I have a job.

Today it's a DERBYWARS tourney starting at 12:19pst.

$375 to play. 30 players. $5000 to winner. Aqu, CD & DMR.

Need PA karma to try to keep the heater rolling.

Let's Go! :jump:

[v j stauffer]

"elite gamblers"??.....I'll give you the "unknown talents" :lol:

I suppose Vic is guilty of blow-hardism, but we all are, to a degree. It's not easy to get a point across, in plain text...without overdoing it. Or make a joke, and half the readers will read it at face value, and not get the humor at all.
Ya just end up coming off like a maroon. Nahmsayin?

I think you might be confusing blowhardism with confidence.

Unknowns? Do they pass out pictures and resumes at the front gate a Del Mar?

Anytime, Anywhere, Anybody, any amount.

[v j stauffer]

Stick to beating up on the 12 player weekday games. When you are the best handicapper in the room it can be like taking candy from a baby. When you play in the 25k Saturday games for instance it's tough being the best in the room and takes a lot of luck.

Keep up the good work :ThmbUp:

Thanks. Still learning a lot. Slow but sure.

[thaskalos]

I have a job.

Today it's a DERBYWARS tourney starting at 12:19pst.

$375 to play. 30 players. $5000 to winner. Aqu, CD & DMR.

Need PA karma to try to keep the heater rolling.

Let's Go! :jump:

My best wishes go out to you, Vic. :ThmbUp:

Take down that $5,000 top prize...and keep the money handy...

[ronsmac]

Thanks. Still learning a lot. Slow but sure.I went on the site and saw the kind of week you had. If you're still learning I pity the other contest participants when you really get the hang of it.

[v j stauffer]

I went on the site and saw the kind of week you had. If you're still learning I pity the other contest participants when you really get the hang of it.

Thanks Ron. Things went well. ALOT of hard work and prep hours. Glad I'm not back at it until Thurs.

Getting ready for HS basketball season. Scrimmages start for me on Thurs. as well.

[Stillriledup]

I noticed there's a bullet contest for jan 2nd, it's a one race contest? I guess whoever has the winner splits the prize with everyone else who has the winner? (Assuming the runner up doesn't pay more to place than the winner pays to WP combined)

Also, do they decide which race is the contest race after the entries are in and locked?

[Mulerider]

SRU: Checked out the contest you mentioned. Look under the tournament's headline. It is for 18 races, in the usual $2WP format, tracks and races "to be announced." It is open to 133 participants with a buy-in of $875.

Total prize money is $100,000 to be distributed in descending scale among the top ten finishers. First place is $49,125, second is $19,125. Tenth place is $1,750.

If you hover your cursor over the total prize money listed, you will get a pop-up showing the breakdown. Also, if you click on the tournament headline you can see the screen names of the people who've already signed up for it.

[Canarsie]

Whoever participates in the Derbywars contests I wish the best of luck to all.

I really don't get how people would root against anyone from this board unless they are playing against. David Aragona was knocked on here for picking winning horses can you imagine that? Same goes for others but when it becomes SHOWTIME the "knockers" usually say I don't want to reveal my trade secrets.

I really hope whoever takes the top prize and beneath are all from right HERE!!!

[EMD4ME]

Whoever participates in the Derbywars contests I wish the best of luck to all.

I really don't get how people would root against anyone from this board unless they are playing against. David Aragona was knocked on here for picking winning horses can you imagine that? Same goes for others but when it becomes SHOWTIME the "knockers" usually say I don't want to reveal my trade secrets.

I really hope whoever takes the top prize and beneath are all from right HERE!!!

I agree 100%. My heart could never root against another player.

In a sick piece of irony though, I love it when people root against my horses. I actually get annoyed when people root for me to win at the track.

I never said I was normal :lol:

[Si2see]

Thanks. Still learning a lot. Slow but sure.

Although I enjoy the online tournaments, live tournaments are my favorite. When you are speaking about all the work that went into this week, I have to agree. People won't understand until they physically compete themselves.

At the end of the horse player world series there has been a cash contest Sunday after the big tourney wraps up on Saturday. It didn't get much participation so they are not having the cash tourney this year. I would imagine it didn't get the participation primarily because most of the handicappers are mentally exhausted from the preparation all week, and contest play from the previous 3 days that their minds are mush :bang:

I have done well all year in these live games for playing them for just under 2 years now, but not nearly as well as I would like, and have definitely not cashed for enough when it matters the most.

Hopefully we cross paths one day, I will buy you a beer :ThmbUp:

Jason

[cbp]

Are these tournaments like riding a track setup without the lock ring? If you can pick winners, why go through all the nonsense?

[Stillriledup]

SRU: Checked out the contest you mentioned. Look under the tournament's headline. It is for 18 races, in the usual $2WP format, tracks and races "to be announced." It is open to 133 participants with a buy-in of $875.

Total prize money is $100,000 to be distributed in descending scale among the top ten finishers. First place is $49,125, second is $19,125. Tenth place is $1,750.

If you hover your cursor over the total prize money listed, you will get a pop-up showing the breakdown. Also, if you click on the tournament headline you can see the screen names of the people who've already signed up for it.

Thanks, ill relook at it, appreciate the info!

[v j stauffer]

Are these tournaments like riding a track setup without the lock ring? If you can pick winners, why go through all the nonsense?

Many people pick lot's of winners and lose money.

Tournaments IMO have their place for people who are not great money managers or tend to chase or can flat out tilt.

Everybody is different. It's handicapping horse races. If it shows a monetary profit it CANNOT possibly be nonsense.

[Si2see]

Are these tournaments like riding a track setup without the lock ring? If you can pick winners, why go through all the nonsense?

Ok start with an $875 bankroll. Turn it into $49,125......

Ok this might be possible for some of the elite players. How long would it take? One day ?

If you can do that I applaud you, there might be some people who are able to. I will stick to trying to beat 132 people in a tournament.

Jason

[thaskalos]

Many people pick lot's of winners and lose money.

Tournaments IMO have their place for people who are not great money managers or tend to chase or can flat out tilt.

Everybody is different. It's handicapping horse races. If it shows a monetary profit it CANNOT possibly be nonsense.
The objective in gambling is to make MONEY...not to endlessly debate about how "great" at gambling we really are. Tournament play differs from regular play, and it requires a different set of skills...but the bottom LINE is how we keep score in gambling.

Keep collecting that cash, Vic...and don't worry about the tournament critics. In gambling, the guy with the most is the best...PERIOD.

[v j stauffer]

The objective in gambling is to make MONEY...not to endlessly debate about how "great" at gambling we really are. Tournament play differs from regular play, and it requires a different set of skills...but the bottom LINE is how we keep score in gambling.

Keep collecting that cash, Vic...and don't worry about the tournament critics. In gambling, the guy with the most is the best...PERIOD.

In some good spots at Parx today with 2 races to go. Hoping to hold on and start the week well.

[Stillriledup]

I notice there's a monthly leader board, if a person waits to be the last to sign up, can they see who is already signed up? (To avoid the best people, or at least try to)?

[Mulerider]

I notice there's a monthly leader board, if a person waits to be the last to sign up, can they see who is already signed up? (To avoid the best people, or at least try to)?

Yes, you can wait until the last minute to sign up for a tournament, but there's always the risk that if you wait too long it will fill up without you.

The monthly leaderboard can be deceptive. While it does show you the number of wins and the amount of earnings a player has for the month, it does not show you how many losses he had or how much in entry fees he paid in order to earn those winnings. (At least not that I've been able to find.)

[Si2see]

I notice there's a monthly leader board, if a person waits to be the last to sign up, can they see who is already signed up? (To avoid the best people, or at least try to)?

When I told Vic stick to the weekday high stakes games I was being serious, I believe he could literally play all week and make a really decent living because you don't have to beat all of the top players... By no means was I saying duck the top players. He only has to beat 11 other people for a serious payday, to bring home more than a lot of people do in a week or two working regular jobs.

The weekend tournaments are different. When you are facing the likes of Ed ( Joe ) Ramsey won the Saturday 25k ( and is the best handicapper that I am friends with ) and all of the other top caliber players in these games, you need to have a superb day of handicapping to beat these players and then it still might be good enough.

I guarantee you that Vic will have much better days than 1.25 times his bankroll, but that's all it took for him to win 3 grand last week. Meanwhile it took Ed Ramsey just over 2.5 times his bankroll to win the 25k game Saturday.

Jason

[v j stauffer]

When I told Vic stick to the weekday high stakes games I was being serious, I believe he could literally play all week and make a really decent living because you don't have to beat all of the top players... By no means was I saying duck the top players. He only has to beat 11 other people for a serious payday, to bring home more than a lot of people do in a week or two working regular jobs.

The weekend tournaments are different. When you are facing the likes of Ed ( Joe ) Ramsey won the Saturday 25k ( and is the best handicapper that I am friends with ) and all of the other top caliber players in these games, you need to have a superb day of handicapping to beat these players and then it still might be good enough.

I guarantee you that Vic will have much better days than 1.25 times his bankroll, but that's all it took for him to win 3 grand last week. Meanwhile it took Ed Ramsey just over 2.5 times his bankroll to win the 25k game Saturday.

Jason

Yesterday at Parx went very well. But I have to be very careful. Racing there is FAR from my comfort level.

Did a heat check yesterday. Back in today but not with a lot of confidence. Won't get overly exposed.

[Stillriledup]

Thanks Mule and Jason, appreciate the info. :ThmbUp:

[green80]

I notice there's a monthly leader board, if a person waits to be the last to sign up, can they see who is already signed up? (To avoid the best people, or at least try to)?


The leader board is almost worthless, you have no way of knowing how many contests that person has entered or the amout of money he has invested to get that dollar amount returned. Play enough times you have got to win some. A leader board that shows net profit and win % would me a more accurate indication of what you are up against.

[v j stauffer]

The leader board is almost worthless, you have no way of knowing how many contests that person has entered or the amout of money he has invested to get that dollar amount returned. Play enough times you have got to win some. A leader board that shows net profit and win % would me a more accurate indication of what you are up against.

I completely agree. Sometimes top players enter in multiple $5.00 games. Why? I don't know. Maybe they just like to see wins in their columns.

And to answer an earlier question from a person I'm never talking to again. When you're ready to sign up for any tournament you CAN see the names of the players who are already in.

[NorCalGreg]

Are these tournaments like riding a track setup without the lock ring? If you can pick winners, why go through all the nonsense?

Wondered that myself....these tournament guys can obviously 'cap the heck out of some ponies......why are they messing with the distraction of Derby Wars? If it's the Glory of it all....I can understand that. Do you guys bet on the side also?

[Stillriledup]

Wondered that myself....these tournament guys can obviously 'cap the heck out of some ponies......why are they messing with the distraction of Derby Wars? If it's the Glory of it all....I can understand that. Do you guys bet on the side also?

Is there really glory? It's probably just about the money.

[Mulerider]

Wondered that myself....these tournament guys can obviously 'cap the heck out of some ponies......why are they messing with the distraction of Derby Wars? If it's the Glory of it all....I can understand that. Do you guys bet on the side also?

NorCalGreg, speaking just for myself I play them because I'm prohibited from wagering via an ADW account here in Texas. I prefer to go over to LAD and bet the windows, and I usually do that on Saturdays. But during the week I'll play a couple of Derby Wars tournaments and watch the races on TVG.

[Mulerider]

Is there really glory? It's probably just about the money.

There's also the possibility that the top tournament guys are placing live bets simultaneously. We have no way of knowing. When I handicap for my Saturday trips to LAD I usually just cap one track. If I really like the card, and there happens to be a Derby Wars tournament that day for the track I've handicapped, I will play the DW tournament from LAD using my phone. Just takes a second to enter your picks.

[Stillriledup]

There's also the possibility that the top tournament guys are placing live bets simultaneously. We have no way of knowing. When I handicap for my Saturday trips to LAD I usually just cap one track. If I really like the card, and there happens to be a Derby Wars tournament that day for the track I've handicapped, I will play the DW tournament from LAD using my phone. Just takes a second to enter your picks.

It seems fairly Simple to get in your bets at DW, so To answer Greg's question of why they're messing with DW it's probably because it doesn't really take up much time once you've capped a card and know who you like, especially if its a lockdown (which seems like fun)!

[Si2see]

Ok start with an $875 bankroll. Turn it into $49,125......

Ok this might be possible for some of the elite players. How long would it take? One day ?

If you can do that I applaud you, there might be some people who are able to. I will stick to trying to beat 132 people in a tournament.

Jason

Nobody has replied to my question.... What about turning $235 into 10k in one day ? Can this be done ? Maybe that example is more achievable, but in my opinion not as easy on an given Saturday.

[thaskalos]

Nobody has replied to my question.... What about turning $235 into 10k in one day ? Can this be done ? Maybe that example is more achievable, but in my opinion not as easy on an given Saturday.

Why do you need to turn $235 into 10K in one day? Do you need to replace your roof, or something?

[v j stauffer]

Off to a good start in three Aqueduct LOCKDOWN games.

1. Qualifier cost $35

2. Head to Head cost $218

3. Winner take all cost $275.

PA karma has been VERY strong.

Please keep sending it. I have to buy a new roof.

[Poindexter]

One thing to understand about tournaments is you do not need to beat the take. Everybody is playing into track odds. You only have to do better than the others in the tournament that day. Tournaments are really good for horseplayers with discipline problems because there is action in every race.
I consider them very analogous to online poker sit and gos. I get grinded to death by the rake in actual cash games, but in sit n go's I can hold my own.

I have played in far too few to have a strong opinion about them one way or the other(I have played in something like 8 tournaments so far-but I play in the small potatoes tournaments $29 buy ins........not a heavy hitter like Vic(yet :) ), but so far I have done fairly well. My gut tells me that beating tournaments is probably far easier than beating the races through the pools. No reason why you can't play tournaments and bet just like you normally do. I have a lot better chance of making money in a tournament than I do taking a stab in the pick 5 (something I typically do).

One thing to consider also there are times these tourneys do not fill and you are playing with little take or even at a positive expectation. I thought it was a little lame at first but as I play them I actually like it. They definitely keep my action bets down. Horseplayers would be wise to give it a try and see if it works for them.

[v j stauffer]

One thing to understand about tournaments is you do not need to beat the take. Everybody is playing into track odds. You only have to do better than the others in the tournament that day. Tournaments are really good for horseplayers with discipline problems because there is action in every race.
I consider them very analogous to online poker sit and gos. I get grinded to death by the rake in actual cash games, but in sit n go's I can hold my own.

I have played in far too few to have a strong opinion about them one way or the other(I have played in something like 8 tournaments so far-but I play in the small potatoes tournaments $29 buy ins........not a heavy hitter like Vic(yet :) ), but so far I have done fairly well. My gut tells me that beating tournaments is probably far easier than beating the races through the pools. No reason why you can't play tournaments and bet just like you normally do. I have a lot better chance of making money in a tournament than I do taking a stab in the pick 5 (something I typically do).

One thing to consider also there are times these tourneys do not fill and you are playing with little take or even at a positive expectation. I thought it was a little lame at first but as I play them I actually like it. They definitely keep my action bets down. Horseplayers would be wise to give it a try and see if it works for them.

Excellent post.

I migrated towards tournaments because I'm not the most disciplined player in the world.

They work perfectly for me.

[Stillriledup]

One thing to understand about tournaments is you do not need to beat the take. Everybody is playing into track odds. You only have to do better than the others in the tournament that day. Tournaments are really good for horseplayers with discipline problems because there is action in every race.
I consider them very analogous to online poker sit and gos. I get grinded to death by the rake in actual cash games, but in sit n go's I can hold my own.

I have played in far too few to have a strong opinion about them one way or the other(I have played in something like 8 tournaments so far-but I play in the small potatoes tournaments $29 buy ins........not a heavy hitter like Vic(yet :) ), but so far I have done fairly well. My gut tells me that beating tournaments is probably far easier than beating the races through the pools. No reason why you can't play tournaments and bet just like you normally do. I have a lot better chance of making money in a tournament than I do taking a stab in the pick 5 (something I typically do).

One thing to consider also there are times these tourneys do not fill and you are playing with little take or even at a positive expectation. I thought it was a little lame at first but as I play them I actually like it. They definitely keep my action bets down. Horseplayers would be wise to give it a try and see if it works for them.

Are there positive expectation situations? Isn't the final pool dependent on the amount of players?

[v j stauffer]

Went well today.

I could feel the PA support and Love all the way through.

Thanks friends. :cool: :jump:

[thaskalos]

Are there positive expectation situations? Isn't the final pool dependent on the amount of players?
Yes...The final pool is dependent on the number of players. But there ARE positive situations...because, for once, the horseplayer is afforded the opportunity to PICK the players whom he wishes to go against.

I think it was you, SRU, who commented a while ago that, whereas the poker player could easily avoid having to deal with the Phil Iveys of the poker world...the horseplayer is obligated to square off against the faceless "betting public", which must necessarily include some of the best and brightest minds in our game. With the parimutuel betting system firmly in place in our sport...the horseplayer can't pick and choose his way to a more suitable level of competition.

Well...now he can.

[ReplayRandall]

Went well today.

I could feel the PA support and Love all the way through.

Thanks friends. :cool: :jump:

Nice Triple CRUSH, via AQU... :cool:

[Poindexter]

Are there positive expectation situations? Isn't the final pool dependent on the amount of players?

The prize is predetermined. If you go into each tournament they have rules and they have prizes. There is a minimum number of entries for the tournament to go. For instance there is one coming up that currently has 9 of 13 entries (but only needs 8 to fill). It might fill or maybe only 10 or 11 or 12 will end up going in. The prize remains the same. How often these value situations occur I have no idea. I did win one tournament that was supposed to have 29 entries and only 23 went (but that was at Los Al).

[v j stauffer]

Nice Triple CRUSH, via AQU... :cool:

Thanks Randall.

Riding a nice wave. Fully aware the rip tide is coming.

Appreciate the support. :ThmbUp:

[v j stauffer]

The prize is predetermined. If you go into each tournament they have rules and they have prizes. There is a minimum number of entries for the tournament to go. For instance there is one coming up that currently has 9 of 13 entries (but only needs 8 to fill). It might fill or maybe only 10 or 11 or 12 will end up going in. The prize remains the same. How often these value situations occur I have no idea. I did win one tournament that was supposed to have 29 entries and only 23 went (but that was at Los Al).

Those situations are pretty rare.

Usually at lesser tracks on weekdays.

Good thoughts but doubt there's anything to exploit. :cool:

[Si2see]

Why do you need to turn $235 into 10K in one day? Do you need to replace your roof, or something?

Thask,

Usually I agree with your posts and I appreciate all the time and dedication you put into this game.

With that being said, Why would you want to shoot for less than 10k with the same $235 when that opportunity is available to you through a tournament venture ? You would rather grind it out ?

I totally agree with Vic, him and I appear to have the same problem. Excellent handicappers with a terrible lack of discipline.....

This following statement isn't meant as a challenge ( although I can beat anyone out there on my best day ) but maybe you are the exact opposite, a moderate handicapper with fantastic discipline, then perhaps I could be on the same mindset as you and stay away from tourneys, and just keep playing all of my money through the 20% takekout pools.

Hopefully if anything I gave you some food for thought.
Jason

[thaskalos]

Thask,

Usually I agree with your posts and I appreciate all the time and dedication you put into this game.

With that being said, Why would you want to shoot for less than 10k with the same $235 when that opportunity is available to you through a tournament venture ? You would rather grind it out ?

I totally agree with Vic, him and I appear to have the same problem. Excellent handicappers with a terrible lack of discipline.....

This following statement isn't meant as a challenge ( although I can beat anyone out there on my best day ) but maybe you are the exact opposite, a moderate handicapper with fantastic discipline, then perhaps I could be on the same mindset as you and stay away from tourneys, and just keep playing all of my money through the 20% takekout pools.

Hopefully if anything I gave you some food for thought.
Jason

Jason...I have nothing against tournament play...or tournament players. As I said before...the main thing is to WIN. If what you are doing works, then you keep on doing it...it's as simple as that.

You were wondering why you got no answers to your prior questions about turning $800 into $50,000, or turning $200 into $10,000...in a DAY. The reason why you got no responses to your questions was because your questions were nonsensical. YES...you can turn $800 into $50,000 in a day of tournament play. You can also put $800 into a pick-6...and turn it into $250,000. A guy out in California bet $4 into a pick-6 there...and cashed for over a MILLION. And there is a guy that I see in the Fantasy Sports commercials...who says that he deposited $32...and turned it into over $2,000,000. Just because something "can" be done...doesn't mean that you and I will be able to DO it. The best gambling games aren't always the ones featuring the biggest "cash prizes".

IMO...a "terrible lack of discipline" is a serious problem, and it needs to be addressed...because it can bite you in a variety of ways. The undisciplined tournament player can get himself in serious trouble too, even though tournament play allows bets in every race. Undisciplined players usually have a hard time accepting losing streaks...and the tournament player is susceptible to these losing streaks too.

Thank you for the "food for thought"...I will take it under advisement. Tournament play looks like a lot of fun...and I aim to give it a try.

[Stillriledup]

The prize is predetermined. If you go into each tournament they have rules and they have prizes. There is a minimum number of entries for the tournament to go. For instance there is one coming up that currently has 9 of 13 entries (but only needs 8 to fill). It might fill or maybe only 10 or 11 or 12 will end up going in. The prize remains the same. How often these value situations occur I have no idea. I did win one tournament that was supposed to have 29 entries and only 23 went (but that was at Los Al).

Interesting.

Thanks!

[Si2see]

You were wondering why you got no answers to your prior questions about turning $800 into $50,000, or turning $200 into $10,000...in a DAY. The reason why you got no responses to your questions was because your questions were nonsensical. YES...you can turn $800 into $50,000 in a day of tournament play. You can also put $800 into a pick-6...and turn it into $250,000. A guy out in California bet $4 into a pick-6 there...and cashed for over a MILLION. And there is a guy that I see in the Fantasy Sports commercials...who says that he deposited $32...and turned it into over $2,000,000. Just because something "can" be done...doesn't mean that you and I will be able to DO it. The best gambling games aren't always the ones featuring the biggest "cash prizes".


This is what I was looking for... That is why the internet can be misunderstanding at times. I was taking it that you were the type that wanted to play your win bets and grind away for a year to try to make the same 10k. My point was that although winning against 130 other people is not easy, it can absolutely be done

Jason

[EMD4ME]

Here's my 2 cents.

As I've gotten older, action means shit to me and I've learned through hard times, to have discipline.

I took one look at Saturday's card and I don't even have 1 prime play to make. I have notes on almost all horses. (Except for shippers). I don't even have a single play that excites me or screams winning play.

Sure, I can pick out 9 prices and play a contest to see who's the best of the best in that format.

With this Saturday coming up, having already paid in advance to be part of the AQU contest, I wish I could get a refund.

I'd rather do what i did today. I bet $300 to win on a mortal lock with one ADW and $720 to win another ADW on that same horse.

I laughed the whole way around the track as I made $510 on a play that was 95% to win.

Not knocking the contests. If they ran a contest for last sunday's AQU card, I would guaranty I win it as I had a cold $100 DD in races 4 & 5 and singled those 2 horses in all picks (Pick 5, pick 4, pick 3's) for a nice score. One of those horses was 11/1. I guess for me, when I enter a war, a Derby War with VIC, I will ask for a card that is actually handicapable. If VIC feels the same way, we play.

I don't see myself in real life wagering 2 cents on most if not all of Saturday's NYRA races. I have negative notes on almost 51% of the entries and don't like random luck races when I am forced to bet to win on 1 horse. I love random luck races when I have opinions in surrounding races, as I can play picks with the random race.

Vic has already said anytime, anyplace, any amount. Guess I'll pick a day where I have some horses I like. In the meantime, I'll practice in Saturday's BIG A contest and will play as well on DW to get a feel.

As a player who has learned what discipline means, I feel like I'm regressing betting all races because it's part of a challenge.

I'm a diverse player. I'll bet $1000 to win on one 3/5 and take my $600 for the day. The next day, I'll pound out $1,000 in a value filled pick 5 to pound it many times, I'll play a $400 exacta cold if the race warrants it or a cold DD if the sequence warrants it.

But I have to say, it irks my core to pick 9 races because I have to. Hence, why I also feel bad for public handicappers who have to pick every race, maybe despite them not wanting to.

I'd rather have a contest where they give you $500 to start the day. He/She/IT who has more at 6 pm wins.

It is fascinating though to hear the other side and I love the feedback. Respect all opinions.

BTW, VIC, congrats for kicking so much ass on DW. I think I might make my first foray in DW on Sunday. In life we all should be open to learning every day, if not, we digress. I look forward to experiencing DW and discussing.

[EMD4ME]

So, I just tried to fund with my Credit Card and with my Debit Card. Was blocked. Gave me some message that the card I'm using can not be utilized.

I have never used or even know what PayPal is.

Is there a Reg GG regulation involved with DW?

Is there a NYS restriction?

Any help all you guys can give would be appreciated.

I will call them but want to be educated before I make the call.

[Tall One]

To fund a PayPal account, just log on their site, get your account lined up, and you can link it to a credit/debit card and go from there. I use it on the Ebay, and it's also a pretty easy way to submit/pay pool monies for group College Bowl Pick'em contests, as well as March Madness brackets.

[green80]

So, I just tried to fund with my Credit Card and with my Debit Card. Was blocked. Gave me some message that the card I'm using can not be utilized.

I have never used or even know what PayPal is.

Is there a Reg GG regulation involved with DW?

Is there a NYS restriction?

Any help all you guys can give would be appreciated.

I will call them but want to be educated before I make the call.

Some states are restricted, but NY shouldn't be one of them. Some credit cards will not let you submit payments to "gambling" websites. Try a card from a different bank or paypal. DW makes me question if all is straight with these bombs some of these guys are always coming up with.

[Mulerider]

DW makes me question if all is straight with these bombs some of these guys are always coming up with.

Not quite sure what you mean, but I don't see how DW could be any more transparent. The deadline for submitting a pick is about one minute before post time; there's a countdown clock showing the time left before cutoff. After the cutoff, each player's pick for the race is shown before the gate opens.

If a player fails to submit a pick before the cutoff, he is assigned the favorite. (I've seen this happen a number of times, for whatever reason.)

[v j stauffer]

Here's my 2 cents.

As I've gotten older, action means shit to me and I've learned through hard times, to have discipline.

I took one look at Saturday's card and I don't even have 1 prime play to make. I have notes on almost all horses. (Except for shippers). I don't even have a single play that excites me or screams winning play.

Sure, I can pick out 9 prices and play a contest to see who's the best of the best in that format.

With this Saturday coming up, having already paid in advance to be part of the AQU contest, I wish I could get a refund.

I'd rather do what i did today. I bet $300 to win on a mortal lock with one ADW and $720 to win another ADW on that same horse.

I laughed the whole way around the track as I made $510 on a play that was 95% to win.

Not knocking the contests. If they ran a contest for last sunday's AQU card, I would guaranty I win it as I had a cold $100 DD in races 4 & 5 and singled those 2 horses in all picks (Pick 5, pick 4, pick 3's) for a nice score. One of those horses was 11/1. I guess for me, when I enter a war, a Derby War with VIC, I will ask for a card that is actually handicapable. If VIC feels the same way, we play.

I don't see myself in real life wagering 2 cents on most if not all of Saturday's NYRA races. I have negative notes on almost 51% of the entries and don't like random luck races when I am forced to bet to win on 1 horse. I love random luck races when I have opinions in surrounding races, as I can play picks with the random race.

Vic has already said anytime, anyplace, any amount. Guess I'll pick a day where I have some horses I like. In the meantime, I'll practice in Saturday's BIG A contest and will play as well on DW to get a feel.

As a player who has learned what discipline means, I feel like I'm regressing betting all races because it's part of a challenge.

I'm a diverse player. I'll bet $1000 to win on one 3/5 and take my $600 for the day. The next day, I'll pound out $1,000 in a value filled pick 5 to pound it many times, I'll play a $400 exacta cold if the race warrants it or a cold DD if the sequence warrants it.

But I have to say, it irks my core to pick 9 races because I have to. Hence, why I also feel bad for public handicappers who have to pick every race, maybe despite them not wanting to.

I'd rather have a contest where they give you $500 to start the day. He/She/IT who has more at 6 pm wins.

It is fascinating though to hear the other side and I love the feedback. Respect all opinions.

BTW, VIC, congrats for kicking so much ass on DW. I think I might make my first foray in DW on Sunday. In life we all should be open to learning every day, if not, we digress. I look forward to experiencing DW and discussing.

In the movie Jerry McGuire one of the signature lines is " you had me at hello "

In these 2 cents worth the only line is " I bet to win on a MORTAL LOCK "

It was similar statements that got so many mad at me with my you're a ****ing Moron line.

Nobody that has played this game for longer than 20 minutes proclaims horses as MORTAL LOCKS.

Even with that. The formula you described as to how to win. Has NEVER worked and will NEVER work. No chance. No way. No how. Not ever.

I could pick any number of adjectives to describe this drivel. But why bother?

The ironic thing is evidently you actually think there is someone out there that is stupid enough to entertain even one word.

ANY real player would read about a line and half of your guide to pari-mutuel success and then go wash their cat. Or enroll in a soap carving class.

"I find my one 3/5 and take my $600 for the day"

It's physically not possible. You really CANNOT be this stupid?

It's a hoax right? Please tell me you reeled us all in and are just laughing you ass off while we all skip around like a dog chasing one of those red laser beam lights.

Please tell me that! I'll applaud until my hands hurt.

I must amend my previous offers to you. I'm forced to add one extra stipulation.

Anytime, Anywhere, Anyone, Any Amount.......BUT!!!..........The contest MUST take place on THIS PLANET.

OMG :bang: OMG :bang: OMG :bang:

[v j stauffer]

Some states are restricted, but NY shouldn't be one of them. Some credit cards will not let you submit payments to "gambling" websites. Try a card from a different bank or paypal. DW makes me question if all is straight with these bombs some of these guys are always coming up with.

I wondered when this was coming. People doing the work and winning. Someone MUST be cheating.

Good to know PA hasn't lost it's foundational representation.

[lamboguy]

i struggle with the idea of someone being able to take a worthwhile edge in this. i am a perfect example, my handicapping abilities are very abysmal. yet i fall under the category of you can beat a race you can't beat the races. in today's parimutuel wagering world in North America its very hard to bet more than $200 to win on a race without giving away any type of an edge that you might have. maybe sometimes in bigger meets you can step up to the plate a little more. but to bet this kind of short money into pools is very non productive. with the amount of time that i have to put into this game in order to win, its just not worth it. i could be running around looking at real estate deals, fixing up properties with the same time or less than i spend on horse racing and come out much better.

in derby wars, maybe someone can find an edge on one race on a card, but he still has to pick 8 others. a real good handicapper will eat him up for breakfast.

[ReplayRandall]

i struggle with the idea of someone being able to take a worthwhile edge in this. i am a perfect example, my handicapping abilities are very abysmal. yet i fall under the category of you can beat a race you can't beat the races. in today's parimutuel wagering world in North America its very hard to bet more than $200 to win on a race without giving away any type of an edge that you might have. maybe sometimes in bigger meets you can step up to the plate a little more. but to bet this kind of short money into pools is very non productive. with the amount of time that i have to put into this game in order to win, its just not worth it. i could be running around looking at real estate deals, fixing up properties with the same time or less than i spend on horse racing and come out much better.

in derby wars, maybe someone can find an edge on one race on a card, but he still has to pick 8 others. a real good handicapper will eat him up for breakfast.

Lambo, everything you've summarized is mostly correct......So what's your point?

[thaskalos]

I find Derby Wars interesting...and I've already opened an account. But I tried repeatedly to reach someone there by phone...to see if I could arrange an alternate way of funding my account...and there seems to be no one there answering the calls. They have an answering machine with a very short message...and it's hard to tell if anyone is supposed to return the phone call or not.

Is there a "live" person there to talk to?

[ReplayRandall]

I find Derby Wars interesting...and I've already opened an account. But I tried repeatedly to reach someone there by phone...to see if I could arrange an alternate way of funding my account...and there seems to be no one there answering the calls. They have an answering machine with a very short message...and it's hard to tell if anyone is supposed to return the phone call or not.

Is there a "live" person there to talk to?

Try horsetourneys.com instead.

[thaskalos]

Try horsetourneys.com instead.

But I want to play Vic Stauffer.

I am convinced that Vic's money will be TWICE as sweet as anyone else's. :)

[ReplayRandall]

But I want to play Vic Stauffer.

I am convinced that Vic's money will be TWICE as sweet as anyone else's. :)

Vic and I have unknowingly played H-H on Horsetourneys before, I'm sure he'll play you as well......

[lamboguy]

Lambo, everything you've summarized is mostly correct......So what's your point?its not worth cheating at derby wars with even smaller pots than in mutuel pools.

[ReplayRandall]

its not worth cheating at derby wars with even smaller pots than in mutuel pools.

If you want total transparency, use horsetourneys.com....In the pick-n-pray format, they show all race picks of each player after the first race is run.

[NorCalGreg]

I find Derby Wars interesting...and I've already opened an account. But I tried repeatedly to reach someone there by phone...to see if I could arrange an alternate way of funding my account...and there seems to be no one there answering the calls. They have an answering machine with a very short message...and it's hard to tell if anyone is supposed to return the phone call or not.

Is there a "live" person there to talk to?

hmmm...only you, and EMD having problems funding your Derby Wars account.

Are you guys trying to pay up in Drachmas?

[Tor Ekman]

hmmm...only you, and EMD having problems funding your Derby Wars account.

Are you guys trying to pay up in Drachmas?Now that's FUNNY!!! Good one, NCG. BTW, I just opened a DW account to try it out, opening paypal account was no problem, linked it to a debit/credit card that I keep minimal balance on with minimal credit line so there's little for anyone to hack into. I live in NY, no issues.

[upthecreek]

Today theres a $1000 survivor tournament,for a buy in of $4 It says it only needs 10 to go Thats only 40 $ How can they payout a $1000?(right now there are 92 entries) Or am I missing something?
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Canarsie]

I find Derby Wars interesting...and I've already opened an account. But I tried repeatedly to reach someone there by phone...to see if I could arrange an alternate way of funding my account...and there seems to be no one there answering the calls. They have an answering machine with a very short message...and it's hard to tell if anyone is supposed to return the phone call or not.

Is there a "live" person there to talk to?

Did you try emailing them? Sometimes a hard copy of what they say is better than a conversation where only the receiving end is probably recording it.

If you open a paypal account you can fund it from your bank or multiple credit cards to start. I've been using it (paypal) from almost day one and never had a problem to pay or fund. If there is a dispute selling an item they usually side with the buyer (I've been stiffed once) at least 99% of the time if its the first problem.

Paypal credit also has a nifty feature that if you spend (usually) over $299 in most transactions (not cash), you get six months to pay without interest. I have used this a few times paying a set amount each month so there was no interest charged. An example would be buying an ipad you don't have to put up a cent while its delivered or you walk out the door.

[EMD4ME]

In the movie Jerry McGuire one of the signature lines is " you had me at hello "

In these 2 cents worth the only line is " I bet to win on a MORTAL LOCK "

It was similar statements that got so many mad at me with my you're a ****ing Moron line.

Nobody that has played this game for longer than 20 minutes proclaims horses as MORTAL LOCKS.

Even with that. The formula you described as to how to win. Has NEVER worked and will NEVER work. No chance. No way. No how. Not ever.

I could pick any number of adjectives to describe this drivel. But why bother?

The ironic thing is evidently you actually think there is someone out there that is stupid enough to entertain even one word.

ANY real player would read about a line and half of your guide to pari-mutuel success and then go wash their cat. Or enroll in a soap carving class.

"I find my one 3/5 and take my $600 for the day"

It's physically not possible. You really CANNOT be this stupid?

It's a hoax right? Please tell me you reeled us all in and are just laughing you ass off while we all skip around like a dog chasing one of those red laser beam lights.

Please tell me that! I'll applaud until my hands hurt.

I must amend my previous offers to you. I'm forced to add one extra stipulation.

Anytime, Anywhere, Anyone, Any Amount.......BUT!!!..........The contest MUST take place on THIS PLANET.

OMG :bang: OMG :bang: OMG :bang:

You know something Prick, I mean Vic.....

I have thick skin but I also have a TON of self respect. I hate bullies, hate miserable souls who blast away to feel better about themselves and I hate obnoxious RUDE individuals.

I've had enough of your crap. You can disagree. You can argue points but it is utter bullcrap that you're allowed to get on here and just spew rude venom as you feel.

Yes, I did bet $1020 to win on the 3 in the 7th at AQU. Yes, that horse was a mortal lock with absolutely ZERO holes in the horse's form, replays, class, jock, trainer, post, track condition and competition.

The only way the horse loses is if Irad jumps off. Last I checked that happens once every 500-1000 races. I'll take those odds.

That was the only logical play of the day. There were no logical longshots to stab at. There were no surrounding plays to play a double/pick 4 or even a value filled horse to use underneath in verticals.

Yes, I'll play $1000 in a pick 5. Combos for $20 bucks, combos for $10 bucks and many weighed out combos to turn $1000 into $10,000.

Yes, if the opportunity presents itself and there's a cold punch exacta out there that's paying $10, I'll play it for $400.

You actually have the nerve to mock the ability to adapt and leverage the appopriate situations???

Why? Maybe because you don't have the discipline to do so?

You find it weird that someone can send $2000 into a pick 6 and then turn around and play 3 races parlays for $200 on chalk?

The thought never occurred to you that as a player, you need to adapt to the winning plays in front of you INSTEAD of being a stubborn mule who plays 1 way?

Your posts are repulsive. Your attitude is worse and it's no wonder when I bring your name up, the common denominator is the same: He's a jerk.

[EMD4ME]

hmmm...only you, and EMD having problems funding your Derby Wars account.

Are you guys trying to pay up in Drachmas?

Yes, the screen asks if I have a paypal account. I don't, so I chose "don't have a paypal account".

Tried 1 debit card, with thousands in that checking account. Error Message.

Tried 1 Credit Card, with thousands available. Error Message.

I e-mailed them, no response as of yet.

I came on here as an adult to get advice on how to overcome that. What was I thinking. :bang:

[EMD4ME]

Now that's FUNNY!!! Good one, NCG. BTW, I just opened a DW account to try it out, opening paypal account was no problem, linked it to a debit/credit card that I keep minimal balance on with minimal credit line so there's little for anyone to hack into. I live in NY, no issues.

Can you provide some details on how paypal works?

I'm a cash guy but with ADWs evolved to finding the right ADW's that allow debit card deposits (all of them blocked credit cards that I know of).

I have never had any need for paypal. Can you explain in detail the pros and cons and how it works?

[v j stauffer]

But I want to play Vic Stauffer.

I am convinced that Vic's money will be TWICE as sweet as anyone else's. :)

HorseTourneys is fine.

Suggestion: While I know how much it would mean to you to beat me and take my $$.

You might want to consider starting with lower level games. Just to get a feel for how it all works and what you have to do to be successful.

I will amend by previous offer a bit, regarding any amount. I'm not likely to put in the work to play you heads up unless the winning prize is either $800 or $1500.

I'm sure you understand. Let me know when you're ready.

[v j stauffer]

You know something Prick, I mean Vic.....

I have thick skin but I also have a TON of self respect. I hate bullies, hate miserable souls who blast away to feel better about themselves and I hate obnoxious RUDE individuals.

I've had enough of your crap. You can disagree. You can argue points but it is utter bullcrap that you're allowed to get on here and just spew rude venom as you feel.

Yes, I did bet $1020 to win on the 3 in the 7th at AQU. Yes, that horse was a mortal lock with absolutely ZERO holes in the horse's form, replays, class, jock, trainer, post, track condition and competition.

The only way the horse loses is if Irad jumps off. Last I checked that happens once every 500-1000 races. I'll take those odds.

That was the only logical play of the day. There were no logical longshots to stab at. There were no surrounding plays to play a double/pick 4 or even a value filled horse to use underneath in verticals.

Yes, I'll play $1000 in a pick 5. Combos for $20 bucks, combos for $10 bucks and many weighed out combos to turn $1000 into $10,000.

Yes, if the opportunity presents itself and there's a cold punch exacta out there that's paying $10, I'll play it for $400.

You actually have the nerve to mock the ability to adapt and leverage the appopriate situations???

Why? Maybe because you don't have the discipline to do so?

You find it weird that someone can send $2000 into a pick 6 and then turn around and play 3 races parlays for $200 on chalk?

The thought never occurred to you that as a player, you need to adapt to the winning plays in front of you INSTEAD of being a stubborn mule who plays 1 way?

Your posts are repulsive. Your attitude is worse and it's no wonder when I bring your name up, the common denominator is the same: He's a jerk.

What happens when your MORTAL LOCK doesn't win?

Does that ever happen?

You quoted a 95% win rate. For the rest of us mortals in the world 3/5 shots win at 62.50%.

What about when you bet your horse at 3/5 and running down the backstretch he clicks down to 1/2 or 2/5 or 1/5 or 1/9?

There are about 3000 threads on this site lamenting this all to often occurrence. Just a couple of those throws your calculations way off.

Maybe I am a jerk. What I am is stupid for wasting my time. The real players on this website tend not to chime in because why bother? For whatever reason, only you know, you seem determined to convince us of something that cannot possibly happen.

Not today. Last week. Next month. No way. No chance. Not ever.

Obnoxious, Bully, Rude? I structured my post in an attempt to not come across that way.

I tried to stick to the hard and fast facts. Even if I didn't do that. Why would you care? If you're crushing the windows making thousands wouldn't you simply laugh it off on your way to the bank?

You and Thask have all the answers. You are the two that have said you'll easily take my money in the match-ups. All that started a month ago and you two are the only ones that can't seem to fund the account. A MONTH LATER.

If it was me and I believed there was SWEET, free money to take from the jerk. I'd have been ready to play in about 6 1/2 minutes.

As I said there are some people who enjoy letting idiots like me continually chase the carrot. I sure hope that's what you're doing and caught me in the web.

If so, I willingly tip my cap and say well done. Absent that I find I'm wasting too much time on you. That's my bad and I intend to fix it.

SRU has been banned from my world. Now you're out. No more responses EVER. Thask gave a hollow apology which he belied about 2 minutes later. He's next to go.

Good luck with your MORTAL LOCKS. :D :D :D :D :D

I have games to play at DERBYWARS on both AQU & DM.

I certainly do not have anymore time to waste on you.

[Tor Ekman]

Can you provide some details on how paypal works?

I'm a cash guy but with ADWs evolved to finding the right ADW's that allow debit card deposits (all of them blocked credit cards that I know of).

I have never had any need for paypal. Can you explain in detail the pros and cons and how it works?EMD - I'm new to paypal myself, having just created my paypal account because I did not want to use a credit card directly on the Derby Wars site not having any clue about their anti-hacking security. As I understand it, paypal is a sort of buffer between the vendor and your credit/debit card or checking account that is linked to your paypal account for you to make online purchases without your card or checking account info being provided to the vendor. I believe paypal has been in use for as long as ebay has been in business and is commonly used for purchase transactions on ebay when the seller is an unknown commodity. I've never heard of any security issues with paypal, but as an extra layer of protection, I've linked my paypal account to a debit card that is tied to a checking account in which I keep a minimal amount of cash with only a $500 credit line, so there not much for anyone to go to the trouble of hacking into. The account creation process was very straight forward. Also, paypal sends you an email every time a transaction is made using your paypal account, so you can keep a close watch on it.

[Stillriledup]

You know something Prick, I mean Vic.....

I have thick skin but I also have a TON of self respect. I hate bullies, hate miserable souls who blast away to feel better about themselves and I hate obnoxious RUDE individuals.

I've had enough of your crap. You can disagree. You can argue points but it is utter bullcrap that you're allowed to get on here and just spew rude venom as you feel.

Yes, I did bet $1020 to win on the 3 in the 7th at AQU. Yes, that horse was a mortal lock with absolutely ZERO holes in the horse's form, replays, class, jock, trainer, post, track condition and competition.

The only way the horse loses is if Irad jumps off. Last I checked that happens once every 500-1000 races. I'll take those odds.

That was the only logical play of the day. There were no logical longshots to stab at. There were no surrounding plays to play a double/pick 4 or even a value filled horse to use underneath in verticals.

Yes, I'll play $1000 in a pick 5. Combos for $20 bucks, combos for $10 bucks and many weighed out combos to turn $1000 into $10,000.

Yes, if the opportunity presents itself and there's a cold punch exacta out there that's paying $10, I'll play it for $400.

You actually have the nerve to mock the ability to adapt and leverage the appopriate situations???

Why? Maybe because you don't have the discipline to do so?

You find it weird that someone can send $2000 into a pick 6 and then turn around and play 3 races parlays for $200 on chalk?

The thought never occurred to you that as a player, you need to adapt to the winning plays in front of you INSTEAD of being a stubborn mule who plays 1 way?

Your posts are repulsive. Your attitude is worse and it's no wonder when I bring your name up, the common denominator is the same: He's a jerk.

Vic has 'banned me' from his world (see post 129) and now I see you're banned too. When I found out he wasnt going to post to me anymore I pinched myself and thought 'if this is a dream I don't want to wake up' !!!

Congrats!

[v j stauffer]

Promising start at Aqueduct. $370 game. $3000 to winner. $1000 for 2nd.

The PA Karma is getting stronger with each day.

Thanks so VERY much.

Long way to go.

Stay with me my friends :cool:

[thaskalos]

Vic has 'banned me' from his world (see post 129) and now I see you're banned too. When I found out he wasnt going to post to me anymore I pinched myself and thought 'if this is a dream I don't want to wake up' !!!

Congrats!
I guess Vic is the only one who is allowed to joke around with us. When WE do it, we are "hating"...and we are no longer worth a response.

[Stillriledup]

I guess Vic is the only one who is allowed to joke around with us. When WE do it, we are "hating"...and we are no longer worth a response.

Exactly.

Funny how if you look at all the correspondence between me and Vic over the years and digest every word that we have written to each other, you would never guess that HE is the one who's ignoring me, he's called me every name in the book here and ill be darned if I know why, I've never once posted anything negative about him or said a harsh word about him, pretty funny how things work, ya know? :D

[thaskalos]

Exactly.

Funny how if you look at all the correspondence between me and Vic over the years and digest every word that we have written to each other, you would never guess that HE is the one who's ignoring me, he's called me every name in the book here and ill be darned if I know why, I've never once posted anything negative about him or said a harsh word about him, pretty funny how things work, ya know? :D
EMD4ME never said a harsh word about Vic either. The guy justs posts opinions about the way he plays the game...and Vic gets incensed without a reason...and starts calling the guy names. SO WHAT if EMD likes looking for "sure things"...or likes betting show parlays. Is that a valid reason to attack him...and belittle him by calling him vile names?

[Stillriledup]

EMD4ME never said a harsh word about Vic either. The guy justs posts opinions about the way he plays the game...and Vic gets incensed without a reason...and starts calling the guy names. SO WHAT if EMD likes looking for "sure things"...or likes betting show parlays. Is that a valid reason to attack him...and belittle him by calling him vile names?

I'm sure there's some reason Vic is blasting me and EMD with verbal barrages, it can't just be that he has a difference of opinion, what adult speaks to other adults like that? Maybe Vic can clear it up for us.

[whodoyoulike]

Can you provide some details on how paypal works?

I'm a cash guy but with ADWs evolved to finding the right ADW's that allow debit card deposits (all of them blocked credit cards that I know of).

I have never had any need for paypal. Can you explain in detail the pros and cons and how it works?

Instead of the repeated "name calling" which seems to be your shtick, why don't you just look up PayPal on Google for the in's and out's?

[Racetrack Playa]

Promising start at Aqueduct. $370 game. $3000 to winner. $1000 for 2nd.

The PA Karma is getting stronger with each day.

Thanks so VERY much.

Long way to go.

Stay with me my friends :cool:
GoodLuck 2day Goof, :ThmbUp:
Get that Money

[Stillriledup]

Instead of the repeated "name calling" which seems to be your shtick, why don't you just look up PayPal on Google for the in's and out's?
I don't recall EMD calling anyone names who didnt start in with him first, can you direct me to a post where EMD called someone a name for no reason other than it being his 'shtick'?

[upthecreek]

GoodLuck 2day Goof, :ThmbUp:
Get that Money
He's up $21 going into the last race

[upthecreek]

He's up $21 going into the last race
Winner,winner,chicken dinner!
Good job Vic :ThmbUp:

[Racetrack Playa]

He's up $21 going into the last race
Cool, he must have won then,
Way to go Vic,

[ronsmac]

He's on an amazing roll.

[Si2see]

great play today Vic :ThmbUp:

2.5 times bankroll close to enough to take down a lot of the big weekend games, but if you are good enough to win 3-6 grand at aqu each week, why bother ? :D

Jason

[EMD4ME]

I don't recall EMD calling anyone names who didnt start in with him first, can you direct me to a post where EMD called someone a name for no reason other than it being his 'shtick'?

Whodoyoulike is the epitome of a troll SRU. Please don't patronize him. You're wasting your time.

[EMD4ME]

EMD - I'm new to paypal myself, having just created my paypal account because I did not want to use a credit card directly on the Derby Wars site not having any clue about their anti-hacking security. As I understand it, paypal is a sort of buffer between the vendor and your credit/debit card or checking account that is linked to your paypal account for you to make online purchases without your card or checking account info being provided to the vendor. I believe paypal has been in use for as long as ebay has been in business and is commonly used for purchase transactions on ebay when the seller is an unknown commodity. I've never heard of any security issues with paypal, but as an extra layer of protection, I've linked my paypal account to a debit card that is tied to a checking account in which I keep a minimal amount of cash with only a $500 credit line, so there not much for anyone to go to the trouble of hacking into. The account creation process was very straight forward. Also, paypal sends you an email every time a transaction is made using your paypal account, so you can keep a close watch on it.


Very much appreciate the info TorEkman....Googling it obviously won't tell you all you need to know. Let's see where this takes us. I might set up a minor checking account elsewhere as you suggest.

[v j stauffer]

EMD4ME never said a harsh word about Vic either. The guy justs posts opinions about the way he plays the game...and Vic gets incensed without a reason...and starts calling the guy names. SO WHAT if EMD likes looking for "sure things"...or likes betting show parlays. Is that a valid reason to attack him...and belittle him by calling him vile names?

Boy do you clowns have a selective memory. All three of you, especially you have hurled the hate from day one.

All the while talking a very big game and doing NOTHING.

Pretty sure being called a PRICK is vile. But who cares it's the internet.

Well you complete the banned trifecta. What an elixir it feels like to know once and for all I'm finished with all three of you.

Good riddance.

I'd say good luck as well. But if you follow EMD even that won't help.

[v j stauffer]

Many thanks to Si2, Ron, Playa & Creek

Tied for the lead at Del Mar with 3 to go.

$275 entry

Winner take all for $1500.

Let's Go!!

[EMD4ME]

What happens when your MORTAL LOCK doesn't win?

Does that ever happen?

You quoted a 95% win rate. For the rest of us mortals in the world 3/5 shots win at 62.50%.

What about when you bet your horse at 3/5 and running down the backstretch he clicks down to 1/2 or 2/5 or 1/5 or 1/9?

There are about 3000 threads on this site lamenting this all to often occurrence. Just a couple of those throws your calculations way off.

Maybe I am a jerk. What I am is stupid for wasting my time. The real players on this website tend not to chime in because why bother? For whatever reason, only you know, you seem determined to convince us of something that cannot possibly happen.

Not today. Last week. Next month. No way. No chance. Not ever.

Obnoxious, Bully, Rude? I structured my post in an attempt to not come across that way.

I tried to stick to the hard and fast facts. Even if I didn't do that. Why would you care? If you're crushing the windows making thousands wouldn't you simply laugh it off on your way to the bank?

You and Thask have all the answers. You are the two that have said you'll easily take my money in the match-ups. All that started a month ago and you two are the only ones that can't seem to fund the account. A MONTH LATER.

If it was me and I believed there was SWEET, free money to take from the jerk. I'd have been ready to play in about 6 1/2 minutes.

As I said there are some people who enjoy letting idiots like me continually chase the carrot. I sure hope that's what you're doing and caught me in the web.

If so, I willingly tip my cap and say well done. Absent that I find I'm wasting too much time on you. That's my bad and I intend to fix it.

SRU has been banned from my world. Now you're out. No more responses EVER. Thask gave a hollow apology which he belied about 2 minutes later. He's next to go.

Good luck with your MORTAL LOCKS. :D :D :D :D :D

I have games to play at DERBYWARS on both AQU & DM.

I certainly do not have anymore time to waste on you.

No, YOU challenged. I accepted. I wanted a thread with a bankroll for each of us to play any which way we like, LIKE REAL GAMBLERS do, not some protect the guy who has no control/let's see who can pick more bombs contest. Despite me never even knowing DW wars existed, I accepted. You encouraged that I play some minor games to get a feel. You said take YOUR TIME.

EXCUSE ME for playing in a man's world with real money while you protect your inability to show discipline in an on line $2 WP only contest.

I'm taking you up on DW and while I prepare by seeing what it's about and getting up to speed on what the best strategy is, you sit here and mock like a terrible winner. Vic, I made a killing Sunday. Turned $200 into over $10K. One sequence. Did you hear me redboarding to the world?

Absolutely not. Why? Because it happens all the time in my life (and it's not a surprise) and no one likes a terrible winner.

If your so GREAT, let's start that thread. Me, YOU and Thaskalos. OR YOU AND I.

$5,000 bankroll. Starts Sunday. AQU only. I have a real job, a permanently damaged mother, so I'll wager less days than you. You can wager every day.

Runs from this Sunday till the end of Feb OR till you go broke 1st.

Deal?

In return, I'll keep preparing for DW and when I'm ready, I will play you head on.

[EMD4ME]

Many thanks to Si2, Ron, Playa & Creek

Tied for the lead at Del Mar with 3 to go.

$275 entry

Winner take all for $1500.

Let's Go!!

What's your screen name/handle, whatever it's called? I'd like to follow along.

Which game is it?

Desite you being a real VIC, I will root you on as when I play you, I'd like to really beat the best, not just the rest.

[EMD4ME]

Boy do you clowns have a selective memory. All three of you, especially you have hurled the hate from day one.

All the while talking a very big game and doing NOTHING.

Pretty sure being called a PRICK is vile. But who cares it's the internet.

Well you complete the banned trifecta. What an elixir it feels like to know once and for all I'm finished with all three of you.

Good riddance.

I'd say good luck as well. But if you follow EMD even that won't help.

Selective memory? Au contraire mon frere....

You blasted me in the "WHAT CAN WE DO TO SAVE OUR DYING GAME" thread when I discussed proven winning parlay strategies. You called me a BLANKING BLANK. You have continued to be abusive, vile, unprofessional and rude.

After your UMPTEENTH personal attack, I put your disgusting ass in place.

No need to for me to prove that. It's all here on the boards, 100% FACT.

[Stillriledup]

What's your screen name/handle, whatever it's called? I'd like to follow along.

Which game is it?

Desite you being a real VIC, I will root you on as when I play you, I'd like to really beat the best, not just the rest.

Goofontheroof.

[v j stauffer]

Guy I was tied with just hit an 8-1.

Balls.

He's a very solid player.

Gonna be tough to catch now.

2 to go.

Ain't dead but on life support.

[Stillriledup]

What's your screen name/handle, whatever it's called? I'd like to follow along.

Which game is it?

Desite you being a real VIC, I will root you on as when I play you, I'd like to really beat the best, not just the rest.

The funniest thing is that Vic actually believes he's punishing US by refusing to respond to our posts. I have to admit I don't miss all the 5th grade name calling, hopefully Vic can be a man of his word and never post to me again.

[Tall One]

Can you provide some details on how paypal works?

I'm a cash guy but with ADWs evolved to finding the right ADW's that allow debit card deposits (all of them blocked credit cards that I know of).

I have never had any need for paypal. Can you explain in detail the pros and cons and how it works?


I'll repost my reply from pg 8, slight additions:

To fund a PayPal account, just log on their site, get your account lined up, and you can link it to a credit/debit card/checking acct and go from there. I use it on the Ebay, and it's also a pretty easy way to submit/pay pool monies for group College Bowl Pick'em contests, as well as March Madness brackets.

[EMD4ME]

I'll repost my reply from pg 8, slight additions:

To fund a PayPal account, just log on their site, get your account lined up, and you can link it to a credit/debit card/checking acct and go from there. I use it on the Ebay, and it's also a pretty easy way to submit/pay pool monies for group College Bowl Pick'em contests, as well as March Madness brackets.

Much appreciated again Tall One.

Here's 1 question that's still not answered. I can ask DW but it doesnt hurt to ask here.

It says if you win more than $600 you get a 1099. So, if I go head to head for $500, do I get 1?

If I bet $100 and win $2000, I assume you get one? It's not 600-1 is it?

I don't really care but I do, as I already have $200,000 in W-2 G's this year. If I can offset these 1099's with other "gambling losses" fine. If I can only offset the 1099's with contest losses, I'd like to know that in advance.

Anyone know the true details?

[EMD4ME]

And why do they give a 1099 and not a W-2G?

I prefer W-2 G's as I've never been a 1099 employee before.

Who's the tax expert here on 1099's that are gambling derived?

Feedback would be appreciated.

[whodoyoulike]

I don't recall EMD calling anyone names who didnt start in with him first, can you direct me to a post where EMD called someone a name for no reason other than it being his 'shtick'?

You should pay better attention or look them up on your own time. He's called me names. He attempts to Bully others whenever they ask a question regarding his posts like some self centered POS who thinks he's always correct.

[Stillriledup]

You should pay better attention or look them up on your own time. He's called me names. He attempts to Bully others whenever they ask a question regarding his posts like some self centered POS who thinks he's always correct.

So he just decided to call you names for no reason at all, unprovoked?

[EMD4ME]

You should pay better attention or look them up on your own time. He's called me names. He attempts to Bully others whenever they ask a question regarding his posts like some self centered POS who thinks he's always correct.


UUUUUMMMMMM........NO.

YOU got caught knocking a man who was no longer on this board. When YOU got called out on it by a 3rd party, YOU didn't have the class or guts to stand up to what you said. You deflected like the macho man hid behind Elizabeth back in the day....saying"Someone else answered for me, so need for me to answer again". You were called out for that pathetic response.

Since then, you've had a personal vendetta against me. No matter how hard you try, you can't change facts and you can't change the behavior you already exhibited.

By the way, find 1 post where I called anyone anything (where I wasn't defending myself from a personal and unprovoked attack) and I will gladly deactivate my account. GO AHEAD.........

We both know you can't find that post because it DOESN'T EXIST.

Please go troll elsewhere.

[v j stauffer]

Well DMR sure ended with a whimper.

A BIG FAT goose egg for the final seven races.

Honestly saying this.

To those of you who been watching and rooting you'll never know how much I appreciate it.

I'm convinced you have helped.

Sometimes in this game it can get hard to stay the course and continue to put in the work that's necessary. To watch those last 10 replays. We convince ourselves it won't matter. Cut corners.

I think with some of you watching it's made me less likely to be lazy and phone in a race or two.

Well, were back at it tomorrow with two head to heads and the $4000 game all at Aqueduct.

No Del Mar tomorrow on Friday afternoon/evening by order of Mrs. Goof.

Thanks again. :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

You should pay better attention or look them up on your own time. He's called me names. He attempts to Bully others whenever they ask a question regarding his posts like some self centered POS who thinks he's always correct.

Here's what I'm struggling with, you say his 'schtick' is to call people names, I know personally there a handful of posters here who call ME names while being completely unprovoked, but EMD has never called me a name, I wonder why that Is considering he has a 'history' of name calling according to you?

I've interacted with him dozens if not hundreds of times and he's never Been anything but professional and cordial in his postings, zero name calling.

[green80]

Much appreciated again Tall One.

Here's 1 question that's still not answered. I can ask DW but it doesnt hurt to ask here.

It says if you win more than $600 you get a 1099. So, if I go head to head for $500, do I get 1?

If I bet $100 and win $2000, I assume you get one? It's not 600-1 is it?

I don't really care but I do, as I already have $200,000 in W-2 G's this year. If I can offset these 1099's with other "gambling losses" fine. If I can only offset the 1099's with contest losses, I'd like to know that in advance.

Anyone know the true details?

You can offset the 1099 with any other gambling loss, bingo if you want. To answer your question, W2G is the reportable tax amount given to the IRS, and 1099 is the reportable promotional gifts and/or winnings reported to the IRS.

[EMD4ME]

You can offset the 1099 with any other gambling loss, bingo if you want. To answer your question, W2G is the reportable tax amount given to the IRS, and 1099 is the reportable promotional gifts and/or winnings reported to the IRS.

Much appeciated green80. Important to know. Thanks again.

[no breathalyzer]

sweet thread going on here :D

[EMD4ME]

sweet thread going on here :D

You gonna tweet it for us? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm so kidding, I like ya NB. Be well pal.

[v j stauffer]

Three Aqueduct games today.

$55 Head to Head LOCKDOWN $100 to win.

$110 Head to Head LOCKDOWN $200 to win.

$370 Bullet (race by race) $3000 to win. $1000 for second.

Interesting dynamic at play here. As LOCKDOWNS the two matchups have picks that cannot be changed.

While the Big Game allows for picks to made until half the horses are in the gate.

Possible to have 2 different horses in the same race.

Thanks again for all the PA Karma.

Have a great day.

Let's Go! :ThmbUp: :cool:

[EMD4ME]

1 race to go Vic. Getter home!

[v j stauffer]

Gimme a

J


Gimme an

O

Gimme an

N

Gimme an

A

Gimme an

H


What's that spell?

JONAH

:bang: :bang: :mad: :bang: :bang: :mad: :mad: :mad: :bang: :mad:

[EMD4ME]

Gimme a

J


Gimme an

O

Gimme an

N

Gimme an

A

Gimme an

H


What's that spell?

JONAH

:bang: :bang: :mad: :bang: :bang: :mad: :mad: :mad: :bang: :mad:


That was a heartbreaker....I don't even wish that on enemies sir.

Sincere sorry.

Any regrets in that sequence?

[Stillriledup]

Jonah? I don't get it.

[v j stauffer]

WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED???

I had Todd Pletcher with an Uncle Mo first timer at 1/2 ( actually 8 1/2 to 1 for me) for $3000 and he goes right in the crapper.

I THOUGHT THAT HORSE WAS A..........

MORTAL LOCK

:confused: :mad: :eek: :( :ThmbDown:

[NorCalGreg]

the guy loses and still finds a way to take a shot at someone...who btw he said he had on ignore, in his silly "trifecta" speech.

LOL....probably after I post this....it'll turn into the "superfecta" speech HAHAHA ....vic your an a@@ but you're an entertaining a@@ :ThmbUp:

[v j stauffer]

the guy loses and still finds a way to take a shot at someone...who btw he said he had on ignore, in his silly "trifecta" speech.

LOL....probably after I post this....it'll turn into the "superfecta" speech HAHAHA ....vic your an a@@ but you're an entertaining a@@ :ThmbUp:

Like you read my mind.

You are the final number in the dickhead superfecta.

Buh Bye!

[Stillriledup]

the guy loses and still finds a way to take a shot at someone...who btw he said he had on ignore, in his silly "trifecta" speech.

LOL....probably after I post this....it'll turn into the "superfecta" speech HAHAHA ....vic your an a@@ but you're an entertaining a@@ :ThmbUp:

You're in rarified air, welcome to the Dub!! :D

[Tor Ekman]

I entered a small change bullet tournament just to get my feet wet, AQ races 1-6, $4 entry fee, $34 to 1st place, $8 to 2nd, $4 each to 3rd and 4th. Spent all of about 10 minutes handicapping the card using Bris race summary and some trainer angles. Curious observation: I landed on the same horses as Mr. Stauffer did in Races 1, 2, 3 and 4, with the winners in races 3 and 4 paying $9.30/$4.00 and $10.00/$4.30. Finished 2nd in my little tournament and doubled my entry fee. Lots of fun. Yesterday I tried a survivor pool and got knocked out first race.

On Edit: Just noticed we also landed on the same horse in the 6th race.

[v j stauffer]

I entered a small change bullet tournament just to get my feet wet, AQ races 1-6, $4 entry fee, $34 to 1st place, $8 to 2nd, $4 each to 3rd and 4th. Spent all of about 10 minutes handicapping the card using Bris race summary and some trainer angles. Curious observation: I landed on the same horses as Mr. Stauffer did in Races 1, 2, 3 and 4, with the winners in races 3 and 4 paying $9.30/$4.00 and $10.00/$4.30. Finished 2nd in my little tournament and doubled my entry fee. Lots of fun. Yesterday I tried a survivor pool and got knocked out first race.

On Edit: Just noticed we also landed on the same horse in the 6th race.

Good job Tor. It won't always be good to pick what I have. But glad you made some $$ today. We can never go broke making a profit.

Carry on.

And lose the Mr. Stauffer. I'm just as full of crap as everybody else on here.

Probably more. :cool:

[Tor Ekman]

Good job Tor. It won't always be good to pick what I have. But glad you made some $$ today. We can never go broke making a profit.

Carry on.

And lose the Mr. Stauffer. I'm just as full of crap as everybody else on here.

Probably more. :cool: My point being that for someone who says he invests such exhaustive research in the process, your picks, at least today, were rather pedestrian. As for the "Mr." I'll wager NCG got my drift. ;)

[NorCalGreg]

the guy loses and still finds a way to take a shot at someone...who btw he said he had on ignore, in his silly "trifecta" speech.

LOL....probably after I post this....it'll turn into the "superfecta" speech HAHAHA ....vic your an a@@ but you're an entertaining a@@ :ThmbUp:

geeeeeezzzzz........I compliment the guy AGAIN!
And yet he fake puts ME on ignore too! OMG-- SRU if it wasn't for you, and now Vic...where would I get any entertainment? :lol: :lol:

I'm just here for comedy relief. I havent had a good winner in a while, maybe a good old-fashioned flame war is just the ticket. ...naww
For some reason, I've been mean to people all day...better retreat while I still have what's left of my sanity.(and my bankroll)
later dudes
-NCG☮

[v j stauffer]

My point being that for someone who says he invests such exhaustive research in the process, your picks, at least today, were rather pedestrian. As for the "Mr." I'll wager NCG got my drift. ;)

Well they may have been pedestrian. But they were good enough to have me in the lead in a $4000 game with one race to go.

That's really all that matters in this format.

I'm available for heads up matches if you'd like to play.

Should be easy to defeat a jay walker like me. :cool:

ANYTIME, ANYWHERE, ANYBODY (except the superfecta ) ANY AMOUNT

[EMD4ME]

WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED???

I had Todd Pletcher with an Uncle Mo first timer at 1/2 ( actually 8 1/2 to 1 for me) for $3000 and he goes right in the crapper.

I THOUGHT THAT HORSE WAS A..........

MORTAL LOCK

:confused: :mad: :eek: :( :ThmbDown:


Only 2 mortal locks in the last month at NYRA were:

Marching

Fourstar Crook


And I truly mean mortal locks.

With all due respect but how can anyone think a 2 YO 1ster is a MORTAL LOCK?

[no breathalyzer]

Only 2 mortal locks in the last month at NYRA were:

Marching

Fourstar Crook


And I truly mean mortal locks.

With all due respect but how can anyone think a 2 YO 1ster is a MORTAL LOCK?
a dummy :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes, the screen asks if I have a paypal account. I don't, so I chose "don't have a paypal account".

Tried 1 debit card, with thousands in that checking account. Error Message.

Tried 1 Credit Card, with thousands available. Error Message.

I e-mailed them, no response as of yet.

I came on here as an adult to get advice on how to overcome that. What was I thinking. :bang:It's pretty common knowledge to anyone who has been around the online game more than 5 minutes that a lot of credit cards and even some debit cards won't allow you to fund gaming sites.

And PayPal is a legit and easy service to use instead. I use it all the time.

You sign up, add your debit card, and you're good to go. Easy peasy.

[PaceAdvantage]

In the movie Jerry McGuire one of the signature lines is " you had me at hello "

In these 2 cents worth the only line is " I bet to win on a MORTAL LOCK "

It was similar statements that got so many mad at me with my you're a ****ing Moron line.

Nobody that has played this game for longer than 20 minutes proclaims horses as MORTAL LOCKS.

Even with that. The formula you described as to how to win. Has NEVER worked and will NEVER work. No chance. No way. No how. Not ever.

I could pick any number of adjectives to describe this drivel. But why bother?

The ironic thing is evidently you actually think there is someone out there that is stupid enough to entertain even one word.

ANY real player would read about a line and half of your guide to pari-mutuel success and then go wash their cat. Or enroll in a soap carving class.

"I find my one 3/5 and take my $600 for the day"

It's physically not possible. You really CANNOT be this stupid?

It's a hoax right? Please tell me you reeled us all in and are just laughing you ass off while we all skip around like a dog chasing one of those red laser beam lights.

Please tell me that! I'll applaud until my hands hurt.

I must amend my previous offers to you. I'm forced to add one extra stipulation.

Anytime, Anywhere, Anyone, Any Amount.......BUT!!!..........The contest MUST take place on THIS PLANET.

OMG :bang: OMG :bang: OMG :bang:I know I'm late to this party and all...but I must say, this diatribe of yours was COMPLETELY uncalled for...what is wrong with you?

[v j stauffer]

I know I'm late to this party and all...but I must say, this diatribe of yours was COMPLETELY uncalled for...what is wrong with you?

What is wrong with me?

How much time do you have? :cool:

[Canarsie]

It's pretty common knowledge to anyone who has been around the online game more than 5 minutes that a lot of credit cards and even some debit cards won't allow you to fund gaming sites.

And PayPal is a legit and easy service to use instead. I use it all the time.

You sign up, add your debit card, and you're good to go. Easy peasy.

I'm sure you remember back in the day they made two deposits to your account. Both were under a buck but that was a nice system to use. Once they confirmed that it was legit the person is off and running.

Not once have I ever had a problem which is now paypal credit. I even use bill me later for all of my purchases that let me and make a single payment at the end of the billing cycle.

If you bill a major purchase over $299 (lets say DRF or thoroughgraph) they give you six months to pay it off interest free.

Sorry for my rambling but anyone on here should be able to complete the whole process including verification in way less than an hour.

[upthecreek]

http://www.equinometry.com/2015/11/23/race-track-warriors-guarantee-guarantees/

[green80]

Derbywars has a takeout of up to 20% on some of the lower priced tournaments. Hardly an alternative to the high track takeouts and all this with no oversight to attempt to assure a fair game.

[ronsmac]

Derbywars has a takeout of up to 20% on some of the lower priced tournaments. Hardly an alternative to the high track takeouts and all this with no oversight to attempt to assure a fair game.It also looks like some tournaments their take is in the 6% range.

[green80]

It also looks like some tournaments their take is in the 6% range.

The lowest I could find was 12-13%

[ReplayRandall]

The lowest I could find was 12-13%

Horsetourneys is 10% or less......

[NorCalGreg]

Horsetourneys is 10% or less......

Wasn't that the shop Lenny Moon was railing about?

[Si2see]

Wasn't that the shop Lenny Moon was railing about?

No horse tourneys is legit. I have won several trips, tournament entries, and cash from their site. McKay is fantastic to deal with :ThmbUp: the first time I found tournament websites was about 2 months before the horse player World Series in 2014. I won the package on my second or third try, and was nervous because I had to take off work, buy a last minute expensive plane ticket from the east coast to west coast, and pray that the hotel was taken care of.... Everything was what they advertised and better. Boyd gaming treated me like a king, had the $500 travel reimbursement waiting in the casino cage cashier, and room was paid for entire trip. 4 trips to Vegas later and some cash along the way and I have only had positive experiences with horse tourneys.

race track warriors is the one Lenny ripped, with good reason. The new email that went out actually explains it in plain English 1 spot for every 20 entries, however the other email had guaranteed 5 spots... any other time an "official" nhc email goes out and has the word guaranteed, the spots are indeed guaranteed.

Jason

[Stillriledup]

DW caps payouts at 32/18 for WP, what does everyone think of this? Should there be no cap? Is this cap perfect at 32/18 or should the cap be lower?

[ReplayRandall]

DW caps payouts at 32/18 for WP, what does everyone think of this? Should there be no cap? Is this cap perfect at 32/18 or should the cap be lower?

Standard everywhere else, including the NHC, is 42/22 for WP......that's why LIVE bankroll tourneys are growing and more appealing, for the very reason you asked of no cap.

[PaceAdvantage]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/images/DerbyWars.png (https://www.derbywars.com/tournaments/207192)
A PaceAdvantage.com Member Exclusive, $500 Purse Tournament
Saturday, November 28, 2015 - Last 6 Races At Aqueduct
Tourney Entry Costs 100 Points - Space Is Limited
***
New DerbyWars Accounts Come With 1,000 Points FREE
(if current DW players need more they can email support@derbywars.com)
Click Here To Claim Your $100 Bonus - Sign Up With Promo Code: PACE (https://www.derbywars.com/register?promo=pace)
Click Here For The $500 PaceAdvantage Free Tournament (https://www.derbywars.com/tournaments/207192)
***
I'm In . . . Are You?

[PaceAdvantage]

I want to see everyone sign up at the above tournament and let's battle it out over the last six races at Aqueduct on Saturday...Vic and EMD4ME, this means you too!!

It takes about 30 seconds to sign up...all they ask for is an email address and your mailing address...no social security number...no credit card...they give you 1000 points for signing up (the PA contest costs 100 points)...and if you use the promo code PACE you get a deposit match bonus up to $100.

Sign up with the promo code by clicking on this link: https://www.derbywars.com/register?promo=pace

[NorCalGreg]

No horse tourneys is legit. I have won several trips, tournament entries, and cash from their site. McKay is fantastic to deal with :ThmbUp: the first time I found tournament websites was about 2 months before the horse player World Series in 2014. I won the package on my second or third try, and was nervous because I had to take off work, buy a last minute expensive plane ticket from the east coast to west coast, and pray that the hotel was taken care of.... Everything was what they advertised and better. Boyd gaming treated me like a king, had the $500 travel reimbursement waiting in the casino cage cashier, and room was paid for entire trip. 4 trips to Vegas later and some cash along the way and I have only had positive experiences with horse tourneys.

race track warriors is the one Lenny ripped, with good reason. The new email that went out actually explains it in plain English 1 spot for every 20 entries, however the other email had guaranteed 5 spots... any other time an "official" nhc email goes out and has the word guaranteed, the spots are indeed guaranteed.

Jason

Thanks for clearing that up, Jason. I'm sitting here at my comp, vicariously reading your adventure at the WS, wow! I'm a pot-shot player, who can't- and doesn't do well in a tourney format.
I do enjoy hearing from those that can. :ThmbUp:

[Si2see]

PA,

Thanks for setting this up. I signed up and will play it as a prick and pray and it is the one Saturday a year I have to work.


Greg,
Trust me when I tell you, I am nowhere near the best handicapper on dirt, I am probably close to the bottom tier. Turf is another story, I take pride in my turf handicapping ability and believe I am one of the best in the country. Several top players have seen this in action including Mark McGuire ( not the baseball player, but any major contest player knows Mark ) and Joe Koury who had just won a 6 figure contest the week before. At the fall classic registration I did the same thing I always do, play all of my live wagering that day to get it out of my system and get in contest mode. I attracted their attention at the table behind me when we were yelling for the :12: in keeneland first race. He won at 18-1, I had him with all on ex and dbl ( both favs followed ). Then at gulfstream west turf race I found a horse that had some upside and potential and the odds were juicy.. The horse wins around the 50-1 range. Later in the day I finished off keeneland ( actually a dirt race ) with a 23-1 winner., I literally looked like the person to beat....

Sounds great to make over $1000 profit wagering within a few hours right? Not so much. If that had been day 1 of the contest I would have won the day money ( around $3500 ) and had a serious lead for the entire tourney. Instead I made one wrong decision on day 1 of the tournament that cost me an easy to find 21-1 turf winner, I finished the day with a mediocre total. Battled back day 2 with some decent success. Day 3 was mediocre and I again made one brutal mistake. I had the :1: horse in the finale at as written down since Friday morning. I did not think a few races prior on day 3 that an 8-1 horse would help me ( 12-1 ml ). WRONG. The :1: wins at 25-1 and not many people had the horse.

I ended up finishing tied for 78th out of 304. If I would've used 1 of the 2 mentioned horses I would've been in the money. If I use both I am top 10.

The point I am trying to make is anyone who is a decent handicapper can win or place in these contests. There are three main things that you need to have happen.

1. Make less mistakes than everyone else
2. Pick live horses.
3. Have some racing luck.

Hope this helps. If you would like me to share any other stories I will.
Jason

[mrroyboy]

Unfortunately I live in Nevada so I can't join. But good luck to all of you.

[Stillriledup]

Does every bet involving final race at Aqu get cancelled or do they just pay off who's in the lead?

[cj]

Does every bet involving final race at Aqu get cancelled or do they just pay off who's in the lead?

I'm sure you could find the rules easily on the site.

[UnionRags]

Game theory question:

Head to Head Match

My Score $22 Opponent $16.20

Last race of the night there is a 4/5 horse.

What is optimal here, based of decision of your opponent.

He would barely win with him, but he has to worry that you have him as well?

So what is the play regardless of your view of horse chances?

[ReplayRandall]

First of all, if he's noticed you've been playing chalky all day, he'll put you on the 4/5. If that's the case, you DON'T have to play it, as he won't play it.

Now, go to the 2nd or 3rd choice in race and figure which one he'll choose, based on his previous picks. Has he been playing early speed all day? Or just the best beyer/bris fig horse most races?

Look back and see what he's played, odds-wise so far. Has he been playing mostly chalk? Has he been behind all day or has he been ahead mostly? What were his odds on horses he played when he was ahead? It appears you both may have been playing chalk, due to the low scores heading into the final race, or maybe he's been stabbing all day and got a bomb home to place, paying the $16.20 he has.

Bottom-line, based on HIS previous play for the day, your pick will be easy to make to block for the win.

[NorCalGreg]

Game theory question:

Head to Head Match

My Score $22 Opponent $16.20

Last race of the night there is a 4/5 horse.

What is optimal here, based of decision of your opponent.

He would barely win with him, but he has to worry that you have him as well?

So what is the play regardless of your view of horse chances?

At this point, U.R., there's no way your opponent plays the 4/5 shot--he's gonna assume you will, since you're leading. He wants to win, and unless he already had a real strong opinion going in--is probably gonna stab at a lesser horse.

So right at this moment in the tournament---play the fav & lock up a win.

[v j stauffer]

Game theory question:

Head to Head Match

My Score $22 Opponent $16.20

Last race of the night there is a 4/5 horse.

What is optimal here, based of decision of your opponent.

He would barely win with him, but he has to worry that you have him as well?

So what is the play regardless of your view of horse chances?

The only time blocking your opponent should come into consideration is when there is more than 1 horse that is a mathematical certainty he can't use that horse and win. The idea is to try to have as many horses running for you that will make you a winner. Then if you wish you can try to figure which horse he's likely to use and block that one as well. However if you end up sure who his selection will be and based on your handicapping you hate that horses chances. No matter how strongly you feel it will be his pick. Don't use it as a potential block. Search for a different block horse and hope he does you a favor by taking a horse you don't like. Remember at the end of the day it's a handicapping contest and if you're the better handicapper you'll probably win. And most times you'll guess wrong as to who he takes anyway. Remember on the other side he knows he cannot win if he's blocked and if he's an experienced player not likely to take a horse you'll figure to block.

In this particular case with a lead of only $5.80 you should be trying to generate the most possible points with no regard as to who he picks. Trying to figure out if you leave the 4/5 available and hope he doesn't pay $5.80 is a random crapshoot and he knows that as well. Being in the lead by $5.80 or $0.10 for that matter is a tremendous advantage with one race to go. You're likely going to win. Your good capping has gotten you to this point. But your lead is small enough that your only play is to continue to be the best man. Pick the dam winner and head home with the cash!

With some of the extra cash you'll be able to send a limo for anyone whose advice is similar to the post directly above. Pray that you'll always be able to play against people who think such a strategy is correct.

[djm1959]

when im in the lead with one race left i just need the winner,,,unless the 2nd horse pays the max to place ill win then,,,if im not in first of course ill start with the longshots and bet the best combo of form,,connections odds and the look during the post parade especially at delta downs lol

[NorCalGreg]

The only time blocking your opponent should come into consideration is when there is more than 1 horse that is a mathematical certainty he can't use that horse and win. The idea is to try to have as many horses running for you that will make you a winner.Then if you wish you can try to figure which horse he's likely to use and block that one as well. However if you end up sure who his selection will be and based on your handicapping you hate that horses chances. No matter how strongly you feel it will be his pick. Don't use it as a potential block Search for a different block horse and hope he does you a favor by taking a horse you don't like. Remember at the end of the day it's a handicapping contest and if you're the better handicapper you'll probably win And most times you'll guess wrong as to who he takes anyway. Remember on the other side he knows he cannot win if he's blocked and if he's an experienced player not likely to take a horse you'll figure to block.

In this particular case with a lead of only $5.80 you should be trying to generate the most possible points with no regard as to who he picks.Trying to figure out if you leave the 4/5 available and hope he doesn't pay $5.80 is a random crapshoot and he knows that as well. Being in the lead by $5.80 or $0.10 for that matter is a tremendous advantage with one race to go. You're likely going to win. Your good capping has gotten you to this point. But your lead is small enough that your only play is to continue to be the best man. Pick the dam winner and head home with the cash!

With some of the extra cash you'll be able to send a limo for anyone whose advice is similar to the post directly above.Pray that you'll always be able to play against people who think such a strategy is correct.

Since the "goof" childishly continues his ignoring charade--I'll simplify my point---the odds say, that short-priced fav is gonna win....so your opponent has figured you punched that ticket right away-- he will need at least a 4 or 5-1 winner, to win this thing.
So it comes down to YOU hitting a 4/5 shot, or your opponent hitting a 5-1+ shot.
OR---he whiffs on the final race, your fav bombs, you win anyway. OR.....he foolishly plays the 4/5 shot and you follow Vic's advice and odds-of-winning be-damned go with your best 'capping on the 2nd choice-- the Fav wins and you narrowly lose the War by 20 cents.
To the goof's jock-sniffers: this is addressed to Union Rags via a guy who has me on ignore--- save your comments, I haven't won any tournaments.
Randall.....I believe you have the floor

[ReplayRandall]

Randall.....I believe you have the floor

Thank you Greg for giving me the floor to comment. I will be perfectly honest, my initial response to Union Rag's question was basic and fundamental. Humbly, I must confess I can't give anymore info, as I will be giving away my well earned edge in tourney strategy.....As Walter Brennan said in The Guns of Will Sonnett, "No brag, just fact".

[v j stauffer]

Thank you Greg for giving me the floor to comment. I will be perfectly honest, my initial response to Union Rag's question was basic and fundamental. Humbly, I must confess I can't give anymore info, as I will be giving away my well earned edge in tourney strategy.....As Walter Brennan said in The Guns of Will Sonnett, "No brag, just fact".

PERFECT :ThmbUp:

Another thing I love is when amateurs speak of 4/5 shots as though it's a forgone conclusion they will win.

Never considering any alternatives.

So many LIMO'S. So little time.

[NorCalGreg]

PERFECT :ThmbUp:

Another thing I love is when amateurs speak of 4/5 shots as though it's a forgone conclusion they will win.

"NCG--the odds say, that short-priced fav is gonna win" ... where did you get FORGONE CONCLUSION from that statement? I call it playing the percentages--which are highly in the player's favor at this moment.[/B]


Never considering any alternatives.

"NCG--So it comes down to YOU hitting a 4/5 shot, or your opponent hitting a 5-1+ shot.
OR---he whiffs on the final race, your fav bombs, you win anyway. OR.....he foolishly plays the 4/5 shot and you follow Vic's advice and odds-of-winning be-damned go with your best 'capping on the 2nd choice-- the Fav wins and you narrowly lose the War by 20 cents."

Those sound like alternatives don't they?
Look goof...you made a statement borne of arrogance--you and I both know it---it happens. Trust me, I'm far more neurotic and insecure than you'll ever be....simply move on.

I think I'm done here.

enjoy your day

-NCG☮

EDIT: Randall, I'm a hopeless price player--but if we ever meet in a DW, and this situation comes up--don't even think about taking the favorite :lol:

[no breathalyzer]

Been thinking about loading my account here to cut out my ''action bets'' if anyone here has an account there and wants to play just say something.. it might be fun to get a group of us battling it out.. that PA contest was pretty fun.. and if i didn't choke i would of won it. The way i see it is it keeps you handicapping races you might normally insta toss. might actually sharped the mind

[lamboguy]

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/14342458/new-york-supreme-court-judge-bars-draftkings-fanduel-operating-state

[PaceAdvantage]

Been thinking about loading my account here to cut out my ''action bets'' if anyone here has an account there and wants to play just say something.. it might be fun to get a group of us battling it out.. that PA contest was pretty fun.. and if i didn't choke i would of won it. The way i see it is it keeps you handicapping races you might normally insta toss. might actually sharped the mindThere is talk of a not-so-free PA contest on DerbyWars in the near future. Nothing exorbitant...the $11 fee was bandied about...I think that would be cool.

[v j stauffer]

There is talk of a not-so-free PA contest on DerbyWars in the near future. Nothing exorbitant...the $11 fee was bandied about...I think that would be cool.

That is exciting news. I need Christmas shopping money. Let's go! :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

I should probably just PayPal you my $11 and save the trouble of actually handicapping.

[djm1959]

anyone want to battle in a contest tonight? head to head tonight at delta or turfway 11 bucks -winner gets 20? also a remington contest at 759 eastern time


let me know

derbywars id is madison 2014.. i know its not big cash but its something to do with no ncaa football on

ill check here next hour or 2 for an opponent

thanks

don

[v j stauffer]

I should probably just PayPal you my $11 and save the trouble of actually handicapping.

It's a way to go. :cool:

[NorCalGreg]

I should probably just PayPal you my $11 and save the trouble of actually handicapping.

Man...for a tough NY guy--not known for diplomacy, that was a weenie post....
feeling the Christmas Spirit all of a sudden?

[UnionRags]

goofonroof,

about to sit ur $430 SA h2h. good luck

[v j stauffer]

goofonroof,

about to sit ur $430 SA h2h. good luck

Very cool. Doing the work right now. Let's have a good match. Good luck to you too.

[ReplayRandall]

goofonroof,

about to sit ur $430 SA h2h. good luck

So, if you beat Vic tomorrow, will that be win #158 for the month, Travis?

[UnionRags]

Im not siphon

[UnionRags]

Goof is in trouble

[v j stauffer]

Goof is in trouble

Nothing new.

[v j stauffer]

Goof is in trouble

Just finished Santa Anita.

I think I got ya! ;)

[UnionRags]

Good game, its over.

[v j stauffer]

Good game, its over.

Far from. You're a good handicapper and can rally.

[v j stauffer]

Congrats. Your new nickname is Mr. Breakage.

Nice pick. You deserved to win.

[UnionRags]

great game as well. great call on nusret.

[jdhanover]

DW shut out us IL players as of today. Congress should legalize daily fantasy sports and be done with this nonsense.

[Canarsie]

DW shut out us IL players as of today. Congress should legalize daily fantasy sports and be done with this nonsense.

Not that easy to accomplish. A good way to start would be to write your congressperson and two senators. At worst you might be able to figure out what their position is.

http://assets.sunlightlabs.com/billvisualization/index.html

[horses4courses]

I can safely state that DW pays out quickly.

Made 2 withdrawals - one last Sept, the other on Friday (Jan 1).
Each time they have come very promptly.

They state 2-3 business days.
If you consider that Friday was a holiday,
this most recent payment took 1 business day.
It was into my bank at midnight this morning.

[olddaddy]

I got this

XXXXXX -

I wanted to thank you for your support of DerbyWars and provide an update on the recent statements made by the Illinois Attorney General against Daily Fantasy Sports.

As the Illinois Attorney General has declared fantasy sports illegal pending further legislation, DerbyWars must abide by this decision. DerbyWars is a contest site, currently operating as a Daily Fantasy Sports provider.

Starting Tuesday, January 5, DerbyWars players with an IL residence will not be allowed to deposit funds or play in money contests. We regret the inconvenience.

We are closely monitoring the situation in Illinois, which is changing day-by-day. More than one bill has been submitted at the state level to legalize fantasy sports in Illinois, so we are hopeful that it may only be a short time before fantasy sports is legalized in Illinois.

If you have any questions about your account, please contact us at support@derbywars.com.

We thank you for your support of DerbyWars!

Sincerely,

Mark Midland
CEO
DerbyWars


The more I think about this it seems ok. DerbyWars is putting nothing into horse racing and nothing into the state coffers. Since I bet regularly on horses I am supporting the horse racing industry and the state of illinois, why shouldnt DerbyWars be doing the same?

[no breathalyzer]

I got this

XXXXXX -

I wanted to thank you for your support of DerbyWars and provide an update on the recent statements made by the Illinois Attorney General against Daily Fantasy Sports.

As the Illinois Attorney General has declared fantasy sports illegal pending further legislation, DerbyWars must abide by this decision. DerbyWars is a contest site, currently operating as a Daily Fantasy Sports provider.

Starting Tuesday, January 5, DerbyWars players with an IL residence will not be allowed to deposit funds or play in money contests. We regret the inconvenience.

We are closely monitoring the situation in Illinois, which is changing day-by-day. More than one bill has been submitted at the state level to legalize fantasy sports in Illinois, so we are hopeful that it may only be a short time before fantasy sports is legalized in Illinois.

If you have any questions about your account, please contact us at support@derbywars.com.

We thank you for your support of DerbyWars!

Sincerely,

Mark Midland
CEO
DerbyWars


The more I think about this it seems ok. DerbyWars is putting nothing into horse racing and nothing into the state coffers. Since I bet regularly on horses I am supporting the horse racing industry and the state of illinois, why shouldnt DerbyWars be doing the same?



YUP.. just read the same email. glad i decided not to deposit the other day

[green80]

you are paying about an 18% vig. on derbywars, much like the track take.

[ReplayRandall]

you are paying about an 18% vig. on derbywars, much like the track take.

Only 10% or less at Horsetourneys, all the time.....

[Stillriledup]

you are paying about an 18% vig. on derbywars, much like the track take.

The vig seems high in those 2 man games. On the 2 man game that costs 430 to 'cash for' 800 do you cash for 800 or 830?

In sports betting you bet 440 to win 400 but you get back 840

I was wondering if your 430 in DW gets u back 830, which would be fair and similar to a sports bet vig in vegas.

[cj]

The vig seems high in those 2 man games. On the 2 man game that costs 430 to 'cash for' 800 do you cash for 800 or 830?

In sports betting you bet 440 to win 400 but you get back 840

I was wondering if your 430 in DW gets u back 830, which would be fair and similar to a sports bet vig in vegas.

So two players put in 860, the winner gets back 800. So isn't the "takeout" 60/860, or ~7%?

[green80]

The vig seems high in those 2 man games. On the 2 man game that costs 430 to 'cash for' 800 do you cash for 800 or 830?

In sports betting you bet 440 to win 400 but you get back 840

I was wondering if your 430 in DW gets u back 830, which would be fair and similar to a sports bet vig in vegas.

It does not, you get 800. So you are laying 430 to win 370 or twice the juice you pay on sports betting. When you bet on a 2 man game, 430 is deducted from your account and if you win you are credited 800.

[cj]

It does not, you get 800. So you are laying 430 to win 370 or twice the juice you pay on sports betting. When you bet on a 2 man game, 430 is deducted from your account and if you win you are credited 800.

Right, but still much better than the track. You and another guy bet 430 on two different horses in a match race, $129 minimum (the best takeout tracks 15%) comes out and you get back $731.

[Stillriledup]

It does not, you get 800. So you are laying 430 to win 370 or twice the juice you pay on sports betting. When you bet on a 2 man game, 430 is deducted from your account and if you win you are credited 800.

Thanks.

[green80]

Right, but still much better than the track. You and another guy bet 430 on two different horses in a match race, $129 minimum (the best takeout tracks 15%) comes out and you get back $731.

You are right, About 7.5% take in this $800 game. Look at the cheap games, in a $15 game it goes up to about 16.66%.

[cj]

You are right, About 7.5% take in this $800 game. Look at the cheap games, in a $15 game it goes up to about 16.66%.

Looked at the top game on the board today. There are 47 slots at $35 each, returns $1445, that is a little over 12%.

Found a cheaper game, 7 players, $17 each, returns $105, or a little under 12% takeout.

A $4 game for 29 people has under a 14% takeout.

you are paying about an 18% vig. on derbywars, much like the track take.

Just pointing out that this post was not true. Maybe the highest games are at 18%, but certainly not the norm and your post was very misleading.

[ronsmac]

Some games don't completely fill but still go off. Are the payoffs still the same when that happens? If so, that reduces the take on those games.

[green80]

Looked at the top game on the board today. There are 47 slots at $35 each, returns $1445, that is a little over 12%.

Found a cheaper game, 7 players, $17 each, returns $105, or a little under 12% takeout.

A $4 game for 29 people has under a 14% takeout.



Just pointing out that this post was not true. Maybe the highest games are at 18%, but certainly not the norm and your post was very misleading.

Ok, I stand corrected. I should have said the takeout is between 7 and 18%. Looks like the higher the price of the game the lower the take. But the lower priced games fill at a higher rate than the high priced games.
So who knows what the average takeout is.

You are still laying 430 to win 370 in a 2 player game. The way I see it you are still 14% away from a no takeout game.

[garyscpa]

Some games don't completely fill but still go off. Are the payoffs still the same when that happens? If so, that reduces the take on those games.

The playoffs were still the same in the tourneys I played that were not completely filled. So there was, in effect, a negative takeout, or positive expectation.