The diplomats

[Secretariat]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040614/ap_on_el_pr/diplomats_letter_4

[PaceAdvantage]

Bush Admin. endangered national security? Too bad the article doesn't go on to explain HOW???

I feel a lot more secure right now than I would if John Kerry were about to be sworn into office, I can tell you that. But that's just me.

[Suff]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Bush Admin. endangered national security? Too bad the article doesn't go on to explain HOW???

I feel a lot more secure right now than I would if John Kerry were about to be sworn into office, I can tell you that. But that's just me.

I'll tell you how.... remember I advised you to watch the news on long weekends and Fridays....?

Heres a few doozies

When Clinton was prez he signed a provision as a part of NAFTA that forbid mexican trucking firms from Driving Mexicxan registered trucks into the USA.

Last week the supreme court overturned that provision at the request of the Bush adminsitration. The 9th circuit court had called for a Security review and an environmental review.. but the Bush legal team argued to skip those.,..

Effective June 26th... Mexican trucks.. right into the USA..

Now.. You seen the water surrounding mexico? You seen the trouble we already have with illegal immigrants coming from Mexico? You see how this new law makes an already porous border virtually see through? 100's and 100's of mexican trucks will be entering our country... filled with illegals, filled with drugs and worst case? A dirty bomb.

They argued it was too costly to switch the frieght to US truckers.
Thye are rsiking 100's of thousands of lives..

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Next subject

A man walked into the FBI headquarters in North Carolina in July 2001. He stated he was being financed by Osama Bin laden to train and fly airplanes into buildings. along with others.

He was a muslim with a britich passport. They dismissed his story and shipped him back to England where he was realeased!

Now.. that along with the memo stating BIN LADEN determined to strike in the USA means we had the tools in place to stop the attack.... THE GOVT FAILED..

But we still have the patriot act and we still have a cattle prod up our ass to get in an airplane.. and we federalixed 40,000 airport security people

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speaking of Federalizing 40,000 screeners.. did you happen to see they announced last week it was a mistake? yup? They're taking them private again. Cost to me and you for the mistake 438 million dollars..........HUGE WASTE OF MONEY and TIME.

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Next subject

speaking of airlines..

Did you happen to see the story last week where the BUSH admin had bought 100 Million dollars worth of airplane tickets that were refundable if not used and turned in , in time.

Guess what? They missed the deadline... 100 mil down the drain.
They say the goofed?? But really we know the truth

Right now airlines like Delta are lobbying for Govt Subsidies (gas prices, 9-11-01 fallout and the like).. This was a wink wink we won't return the tickets deal..........absolutley

100 mil of our money..and more debt

Good Job

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Next subject

Speaking of borders... this ones a real head scratcher

did you see where we awarded a 10 Billion as in BEE...to a foriegn compnay to control our Mexican Borders.. TRUE! 10 billion to a compnay called accenture... we are privatizing our border security and BUSH awarded the contrcat to a FORIEGN FIRM

wow

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Speaking of Foriegn firms

Did you happen to see the story last week where the defense department is low on Bullets and ammunition? Yup and they are buying the next round of bullets from a Canadien and Isreali companies

Bullets from Isreal to use in Iarq... HIGH-LARRY-OUS

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Speaking of Osama Bin Laden

You did'nt see in Novaks artical I asked you to read that we have exactly 100 people looking for osama.

100!! and get this.. They are 100 national guards from maine.
A national gaurd unit that has'nt seen Combat scince the Korean War... That no good SOB Bush... he has 100 national gaurdsman looking for the guy that was in charge of attacking my country while he has 135 thousand in Iraq... where does thsi madness end with this guy...

And further in that article Novak said that we know where he is but for POLITICAL REASONS , our president will not go get him.

Poltical means ..Saudia Arabian OIL
_----------------------------------------------------------


Faranhieght 911... in theaters 6-26-04

They're all done

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[PaceAdvantage]

All I asked was why the article didn't point out any examples. The main point of the article was that all these ex-US Officials are against the Bush Admin because they feel they have endangered National Security.

It would have been nice if the article would give a few examples....if you're going to lead with such an inflammatory remark, you should back it up, don't you think?

But thanks for pointing all that stuff out Suff.

[Tom]

Novak-he is the same one who revealed the CIA agent's identity isn't he?
This guy has ZERO credibilty-they are investigating who leaked her name?
Only ONE person is responsible-Kovak. Someone leaked it ot him, HE reported is to the world. He is SOLEY repsonsible for the game getting out.
At least Bush has 100 guys looking for Bin Laden-some on this board would prefer to offer cash to his followers to leave us alone.
You talk about endangering national security-elect this putz Kerry and then we will see.

[JustRalph]

suff


that national guard stuff is crap. I know a guy who is looking for Bin Laden and he is an Army Ranger........fulltime for the last 10 years..............he has 88 other rangers with him.........and they aren't guard types. I haven't heard from him for a short while...but he told me he wouldn't be coming out of Afghanistan until summer..................and they don't have email where he is.............

[schweitz]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suff


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Speaking of borders... this ones a real head scratcher

did you see where we awarded a 10 Billion as in BEE...to a foriegn compnay to control our Mexican Borders.. TRUE! 10 billion to a compnay called accenture... we are privatizing our border security and BUSH awarded the contrcat to a FORIEGN FIRM

wow

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_----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [/QUOTE

Sounds like they did a good job of picking the right company to me---you know like when they picked Halliburton which was the right company for that job---Accenture employs 20,000 people in the USA---they will be setting up new technologies to track foreign visitors in the US---oh and by the way the following is a list of US contractors who are part of this contract:
Raytheon
Dell
Sprint
A T & T
Titan Corp.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff


When Clinton was prez he signed a provision as a part of NAFTA that forbid mexican trucking firms from Driving Mexicxan registered trucks into the USA.

Last week the supreme court overturned that provision at the request of the Bush adminsitration. The 9th circuit court had called for a Security review and an environmental review.. but the Bush legal team argued to skip those.,..

Effective June 26th... Mexican trucks.. right into the USA..

Now.. You seen the water surrounding mexico? You seen the trouble we already have with illegal immigrants coming from Mexico? You see how this new law makes an already porous border virtually see through? 100's and 100's of mexican trucks will be entering our country... filled with illegals, filled with drugs and worst case? A dirty bomb.

They argued it was too costly to switch the frieght to US truckers.
Thye are rsiking 100's of thousands of lives..

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________________________________________________

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The Truth---under Nafta Mexican trucks were to have gained full access to US roads by 2000---Clinton blocked this because he was under pressure from the Teamsters who feared cheaper truck driving labor and tried to get help from the Sierra Club to keep the trucks out for supposed environmental reasons---the trucks have been crossing all along but have been limited to a 20 mile trade zone requiring reloading on to US trucks---the Mexican trucks will have to follow the same safety requirements as US trucks do.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff


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Next subject
Speaking of Osama Bin Laden

You did'nt see in Novaks artical I asked you to read that we have exactly 100 people looking for osama.

100!! and get this.. They are 100 national guards from maine.
A national gaurd unit that has'nt seen Combat scince the Korean War... That no good SOB Bush... he has 100 national gaurdsman looking for the guy that was in charge of attacking my country while he has 135 thousand in Iraq... where does thsi madness end with this guy...

And further in that article Novak said that we know where he is but for POLITICAL REASONS , our president will not go get him.

Poltical means ..Saudia Arabian OIL
_----------------------------------------------------------



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You can't actually believe this! The one guy who if captured would assure Bush's re-election and he's only has a hundred reservists from Maine looking---Please, use some common sense.:rolleyes:

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff


speaking of Federalizing 40,000 screeners.. did you happen to see they announced last week it was a mistake? yup? They're taking them private again. Cost to me and you for the mistake 438 million dollars..........HUGE WASTE OF MONEY and TIME.

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We have both federal and private company screeners now---neither of which is doing a particularly good job. Do you have a link for your statement---I can't find anything about this.

[schweitz]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suff


speaking of airlines..

Did you happen to see the story last week where the BUSH admin had bought 100 Million dollars worth of airplane tickets that were refundable if not used and turned in , in time.

Guess what? They missed the deadline... 100 mil down the drain.
They say the goofed?? But really we know the truth

Right now airlines like Delta are lobbying for Govt Subsidies (gas prices, 9-11-01 fallout and the like).. This was a wink wink we won't return the tickets deal..........absolutley

100 mil of our money..and more debt

Good Job



_---------------------------------------------------------------------- [/QUOTE

The 100 million that the PENTAGON wasted was between 1997 and 2002---who was president during most of that time? But you really know the truth huh? Suff, you either have an agenda or you want to believe bad news so bad thats its warped your perspective.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by schweitz
Sounds like they did a good job of picking the right company to me---you know like when they picked Halliburton which was the right company for that job---Accenture employs 20,000 people in the USA---they will be setting up new technologies to track foreign visitors in the US---oh and by the way the following is a list of US contractors who are part of this contract:
Raytheon
Dell
Sprint
A T & T
Titan Corp. [/B]

Well first off - the Pentagon didn't pick Halliburton.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-ushall143849790jun14,0,3217157.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines

Second, Accenture or formerly Andersen Consulting of Enron days...They had to change thier name because they no longer had any crediblity as auditors. Additionally they located off shore to avoid paying taxes like the rest of us have to pay - real patriots there. In fact they are the kings of consulting companies on how to outsource.

http://www.ecotalk.org/SERVEaccenture.htm

http://www.outsourcing-suppliers.com/a/accenture.html


Schweitz, are these really the firms you want to be giving special privileges to?

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Well first off - the Pentagon didn't pick Halliburton.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-ushall143849790jun14,0,3217157.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines

Second, Accenture or formerly Andersen Consulting of Enron days...They had to change thier name because they no longer had any crediblity as auditors. Additionally they located off shore to avoid paying taxes like the rest of us have to pay - real patriots there. In fact they are the kings of consulting companies on how to outsource.

http://www.ecotalk.org/SERVEaccenture.htm

http://www.outsourcing-suppliers.com/a/accenture.html


Schweitz, are these really the firms you want to be giving special privileges to?

Yes, they used to be owned by Arthur Anderson---no, they were not involved with Enron (they are not an accounting firm)--yes they are a good fit for what they have been hired for; which if you take the time to find out what it is that they are going to do you will realize this---which by the way has nothing to do with protecting Mexican borders as suff alluded to.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by schweitz
Yes, they used to be owned by Arthur Anderson---no, they were not involved with Enron (they are not an accounting firm)--yes they are a good fit for what they have been hired for; which if you take the time to find out what it is that they are going to do you will realize this---which by the way has nothing to do with protecting Mexican borders as suff alluded to.

Schweitz, do you even read the links I post. You ask for links and then don't read them.

"Secure Electronic Registration and Voting Experiment (SERVE) is the system and Accenture (formerly Andersen Consulting of Arthur Andersen/Enron bankruptcy fame) is the company. And although Accenture has not been officially implicated in the Enron scandal, they have created a reputation of their own that is already raising eyebrows.

This is hot off the newswire -- 7/15/03 "NEW YORK (CBS.MW) -- Accenture Ltd., the former Andersen Consulting, disclosed Tuesday that it might have violated the U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Chairman and CEO Joe Forehand, on an earnings call with analysts and reporters Tuesday, said the consulting firm's Middle East operations could be in non-compliance with the Act, which prohibits the bribery of foreign government officials by U.S. persons."

[Suff]

Originally posted by schweitz
You can't actually believe this! The one guy who if captured would assure Bush's re-election and he's only has a hundred reservists from Maine looking---Please, use some common sense.:rolleyes:

Common sense... You do know we flew 140 members of his family out of the USA on Sept 12th 2001? You know that rigght?

And you also know that Saudia Arabia would go APE shit if we captured him and brought him to trial...

Don't be naive. Its a political move

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff
Common sense... You do know we flew 140 members of his family out of the USA on Sept 12th 2001? You know that rigght?

And you also know that Saudia Arabia would go APE shit if we captured him and brought him to trial...

Don't be naive. Its a political move

Based on your many recent ludicrous posts and conclusions I believe that it is you who is naive---you should really enjoy Michael Moore's movie; it was made just for you.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Schweitz, do you even read the links I post. You ask for links and then don't read them.


Didn't ask you for a link--why would I; you post plenty every day----Do you even know what they were hired for?

[delayjf]

As I recall, Pat Tillman the Pro football player who was killed was with a Ranger Battalion stationed in Afgan. That was about 1 month ago, So your article is claiming that in one month were have replaced the 82 airborne with the Maine National Guard. Come on, you can't be serious.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by schweitz
Didn't ask you for a link--why would I; you post plenty every day----Do you even know what they were hired for?

Yes I do because I can read.

"Accenture employs 20,000 people in the USA---they will be setting up new technologies to track foreign visitors in the US"

You miss the whole point which is about competive building rather than supporting firms that receive preferntial treatment. Andersen Consulting may change their name, they may incoprorate off shore in Bermuda, they may have half their workforce overseas, and expanding overseas, and they may have strong ties to Halliburton. My question is why do firms such as this which seem to evade their tax responsiblity, and dupe investors and "bribe foregin officials - (their words, not mine" ) how do they manage to obtain these luvcrative governemnt contracts. It is a sad testimony of the corrupting influence of politics.

Accenture is the leading offshore beneficiary of government contracts whose main business is the privatization of government services. Accenture has a close business relationship with Dick Cheney's Halliburton, and 2500 partners - more than half are not U.S. citizens.

I just don't understand your allegiance to this promoter of offshoring.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Secretariat
[Bwhose main business is the privatization of government services. [/B]

This is the part that really bugs you, isn't it?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by schweitz
This is the part that really bugs you, isn't it?

Boy, you just don't get it...

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by schweitz
This is the part that really bugs you, isn't it?

Bingo!

[Tom]

The 100 million that the PENTAGON wasted was between 1997 and 2002---who was president during most of that time? perspective. [/B]

He shoots...He SCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORES!
Good point. Billy boy just started so many programs like this one....hehehe.

[Tom]

Well, I am agreeing with the part about Mexico. Nothing good can come out of Mexico. It is a rouge nation of oputlaws governed by corrupt and inept people and it is leech feeding of fthe USA. We should suspend all trade, close the borders, and put in mine fields to take care of the illegal immigrant porblem, and then deal with the estimated 12 million illegals already here-swiflty and harshly. They are an invading army.
And then we hav eto deal with the China proble-they have a 5-1 advantage over us on trade deficits and our gov't is doing nothing to make them play fair. It is time to suspend all trade with China until they play by the rules. Everyone should refure to purchase anything made by Chinnese labor-that is something we can do at our level. Refuse to suppor this murderous evil empire.
Ther is nothing we buy from any other country that we cannot make better here.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Tom

Ther is nothing we buy from any other country that we cannot make better here. [/B]

I agree---but---will we pay for it?

[Suff]

Originally posted by schweitz
Based on your many recent ludicrous posts and conclusions I believe that it is you who is naive---you should really enjoy Michael Moore's movie; it was made just for you.

The information was posted.

We have only 100 National gaurdmens whose primary mission is to finf OBL. Of course you could say that everyone in Afghnaistan is doing it... But the story.. which was written by Bob Novak...(a conservative) and was reprinted in many papers and on the internet states unequicivally that only 100 men are assigned soley to find OBL...

And if you have some information post it... and stop insulting people everytime you disagree with them or find the information hardto admit too....

[Suff]

Originally posted by schweitz
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suff


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___________________________________________

_----------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of borders... this ones a real head scratcher

did you see where we awarded a 10 Billion as in BEE...to a foriegn compnay to control our Mexican Borders.. TRUE! 10 billion to a compnay called accenture... we are privatizing our border security and BUSH awarded the contrcat to a FORIEGN FIRM

wow

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



_----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [/QUOTE

Sounds like they did a good job of picking the right company to me---you know like when they picked Halliburton which was the right company for that job---Accenture employs 20,000 people in the USA---they will be setting up new technologies to track foreign visitors in the US---oh and by the way the following is a list of US contractors who are part of this contract:
Raytheon
Dell
Sprint
A T & T
Titan Corp.

Sounds like they picked teh right company? Your kidding yourself.

All the companies you list are actively shipping jobs over seas and secondly they are only providing a small amount of technologgy and most importantly... The whole 10 billion leaves America ... and Accenture pays the USA NO TAX on the deal..

Is this a post you called me ludicrous?

You had not even heardof the deal until I posted it. Then what? You did a google search and read enough abnout to editorialize that they Picked the Right company. Get serious. You only form your opions after I post things that have gone way over your radar in the first place.

[Suff]

Originally posted by schweitz
The Truth---under Nafta Mexican trucks were to have gained full access to US roads by 2000---Clinton blocked this because he was under pressure from the Teamsters who feared cheaper truck driving labor and tried to get help from the Sierra Club to keep the trucks out for supposed environmental reasons---the trucks have been crossing all along but have been limited to a 20 mile trade zone requiring reloading on to US trucks---the Mexican trucks will have to follow the same safety requirements as US trucks do.

You call a loading Zone.. Crossing all the time? Maipulation of facts there

Mexican trucks have to follow the same safety regs? Are you serious? Do you understand how pressed an overtaxed our current Border Patrols are now?

And your confidet that 100's and 100's of mexiacn trucks will meet:
Emmissions? You think they'll be testing them at the border?
and you thimk we will search evertyone thoroughly..

Your a con man... You are.. You absoltulety twist teh reality to fit into a sales pitch...

Allowing Mexican trucks to cross the border and drive all over america is wrong

Wrong for security
wrong for jobs
wrong for environment


and here is another case where I work on an issue , I read and anylize an issue.. and I post it up.

You do a Google search and think your knowlegable.

Read a book one in a while

[Suff]

Originally posted by Tom
He shoots...He SCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORES!
Good point. Billy boy just started so many programs like this one....hehehe.

The facts are wrong.. and not truthful.

Here's the fact.

100 Million dollars of refundable airline tickets bought from the airlines to ship our servicemen over seas were refundable if turned in by June 1 2004.

And they were not returned and it cost us 100 million..
]


Its gettimg hard to have an honest debate when people refuse to look at the truth.

We.. made a 100 million dollar mistake.

and even if one wre concede the ticket were bought in `1998 or 1888 .. the mistake was not RETURING them at the dealdine..

[Suff]

Originally posted by schweitz
Based on your many recent ludicrous posts and conclusions I believe that it is you who is naive---you should really enjoy Michael Moore's movie; it was made just for you.

When responses get personal and insulting... Thats good news..

[Suff]

Originally posted by JustRalph
suff


that national guard stuff is crap. I know a guy who is looking for Bin Laden and he is an Army Rangerhe is.............

No it isn't. Read Novak 6-1-04

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff
When responses get personal and insulting... Thats good news..

You called me naive and I responded in same--is it the Michael Moore movie part that insulted you?

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Suff
No it isn't. Read Novak 6-1-04

I don't give a damn about Novak suff. I know that my Army Ranger friend isn't in Afghanistan doing paperwork. he is personally looking for USAMA...............he tells me there are two groups of 44 rangers. One on each side of the mountains. He also says that they have forward controllers in the mountains and air support. I don't know what the National Guard types are doing.................

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff
Sounds like they picked teh right company? Your kidding yourself.

All the companies you list are actively shipping jobs over seas and secondly they are only providing a small amount of technologgy and most importantly... The whole 10 billion leaves America ... and Accenture pays the USA NO TAX on the deal..

Is this a post you called me ludicrous?

You had not even heardof the deal until I posted it. Then what? You did a google search and read enough abnout to editorialize that they Picked the Right company. Get serious. You only form your opions after I post things that have gone way over your radar in the first place.

You are correct I had not heard about it till you posted --so what---you want bonus points for reading about it first?
What are you saying --that you have been studying this for a long time and have reached a conclusion or is it that you did the same thing I did--read a story and formed an opinion?
Don't you think most of that 10 Billion will go the list of AMERICAN contractors (that I listed) that will be doing most of the work?

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff
The information was posted.

We have only 100 National gaurdmens whose primary mission is to finf OBL. Of course you could say that everyone in Afghnaistan is doing it... But the story.. which was written by Bob Novak...(a conservative) and was reprinted in many papers and on the internet states unequicivally that only 100 men are assigned soley to find OBL...

And if you have some information post it... and stop insulting people everytime you disagree with them or find the information hardto admit too....

Your original quote was " we have EXACTLY 100 people looking for osama 100!! and get this--they are 100 national guard from maine--that no good sob bush---he has 100 national guardsmen looking for the guy that was in charge of attacking my country while he has 135,000 in Iraq".

This you base this on a column that you read---so this makes it true---this makes it some of the facts that you present--come on---maybe it fits what you want to believe but it can hardly be presented as fact or truth.

And by the way; osama attacked OUR country--not just yours

And calling Bush an sob says more about you than Bush

[Suff]

Originally posted by schweitz

This you base this on a column that you read---

did you read it? The articale contains facts..including quotes from Military people...

If Me calling Bush an SOB say things about me... what does that say about all the insults you've been slinging around here for two months...

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff
did you read it? The articale contains facts..including quotes from Military people...

If Me calling Bush an SOB say things about me... what does that say about all the insults you've been slinging around here for two months...

Look suff---by all accounts of people who have met you--you are rerported to be a generous, stand-up guy---but all I get to go on is what you post---I try to stay away from insults--BUT--if insulted I will reply in kind--I don't believe I have been "slinging around" insults unless disagreeing with your viewpoints is insulting to you

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff
[B]did you read it? The articale contains facts..including quotes from Military people...



Yes, I have now read it---I suggest you read it again and figure out how you arrived at what you posted---I suggest anybody following this thread read it--

www.suntimes.com/index/novak.html

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff
The facts are wrong.. and not truthful.

Here's the fact.

100 Million dollars of refundable airline tickets bought from the airlines to ship our servicemen over seas were refundable if turned in by June 1 2004.

And they were not returned and it cost us 100 million..
]


Its gettimg hard to have an honest debate when people refuse to look at the truth.

We.. made a 100 million dollar mistake.

and even if one wre concede the ticket were bought in `1998 or 1888 .. the mistake was not RETURING them at the dealdine..

Could you provide a link for the June 1st deadline? Every story that I have read states that the 100 million was between 1997-2002 with 21 million coming from 2001-2002--of course this is a waste, but your attempt to put this on the Bush administration is not realistic

[Suff]

Originally posted by schweitz
Yes, I have now read it---I suggest you read it again and figure out how you arrived at what you posted---I suggest anybody following this thread read it--

www.suntimes.com/index/novak.html

The handful of valiant American warriors fighting the ''other'' war in Afghanistan is not a happy band of brothers. They are undermanned and feel neglected, lack confidence in their generals and are disgusted by Afghan political leadership. Most important, they are appalled by the immense but fruitless effort to find Osama bin Laden for purposes of U.S. politics.

This bleak picture goes unreported because journalists are rarely seen there. It was painted to me by hard U.S. fighters who are committed to the war against terrorism but have a heavy heart. They talked to me not to undermine policy but to reveal problems that should and can be corrected.

Afghanistan constitutes George W. Bush's clearest victory since the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The Taliban regime has been overthrown, eliminating al-Qaida's most important base. But the overlooked war continues with no end in sight. Narcotics trafficking is at an all-time high. If U.S. forces were to leave, the Taliban -- or something like it -- would regain power. The United States is lost in Afghanistan, bound to this wild country and unable to leave.

The situation in Afghanistan, as laid out to me, looks nothing like a country alleged to be progressing toward representative democracy under American tutelage. Hamid Karzai, the U.S.-sponsored Afghan president, is regarded by the U.S. troops as hopelessly corrupt and kept in power by U.S. force of arms.

Those arms are not what they seem. The basic U.S. strength in Afghanistan is 17,000 troops of ''straight-legged'' infantry -- conventional forces ill-prepared to handle irregulars. The new unit assigned to Afghanistan is the 25th Infantry Division, which has been stationed at Schofield Barracks, Hawaii, and has not seen combat since the Vietnam War.

More important than this conventional infantry division are two commando units known as Black SOF (Special Operations Forces) and White SOF. Black SOF, by far the more numerous of the two, is assigned to capture Osama bin Laden. Nothing would do more to boost President Bush's sagging popularity than getting the designer of the 9/11 attacks.

The problem is that nobody I have talked to in the military thinks his capture is likely or may even be possible. The American fighting men think ''UBL'' (as he is called) is hiding in Pakistan, impossible to find. Most exasperating to the men in the field is the manpower and effort expended on what they consider to be a helpless cause.

It is White SOF that is given the task of confronting armed narco-terrorists. There are hardly more than 100 American soldiers assigned to this duty, many of them bearded and dressed as Afghans. They are augmented by British and New Zealand special forces, CIA paramilitaries and U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency operatives.

They are also hamstrung by senior officers who may be expert in conventional warfare but are at a loss to understand American troops who are far closer in style to Lawrence of Arabia than George Patton. The special operations soldiers and junior officers have a low opinion of Lt. Gen. David W. Barno, the U.S. military commander. On paper, he looks good: West Pointer, Ranger, veteran of the Grenada and Panama invasions. But they grumble that Barno does not have a clue.

It is a strange war, with the JAGs -- Judge Advocate General military lawyers -- given a hand in military decisions. My sources tell of commanders, despite credible intelligence of enemy forces, calling off air strikes on the advice of JAGs. This is the kind of restraint the U.S. military has experienced starting with the Korean War, when as a noncombat Army officer, I knew our forces had their hands tied behind their backs.

I am told that one discouraged and now discharged Special Forces officer, who always has voted Republican and admires Bush, thought about contacting a former military colleague now advising John Kerry. He decided that would accomplish nothing and would inject him in politics. Being lost in Afghanistan transcends politics and is a long-term American burden.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff
You call a loading Zone.. Crossing all the time? Maipulation of facts there

Mexican trucks have to follow the same safety regs? Are you serious? Do you understand how pressed an overtaxed our current Border Patrols are now?

And your confidet that 100's and 100's of mexiacn trucks will meet:
Emmissions? You think they'll be testing them at the border?
and you thimk we will search evertyone thoroughly..

Your a con man... You are.. You absoltulety twist teh reality to fit into a sales pitch...

Allowing Mexican trucks to cross the border and drive all over america is wrong

Wrong for security
wrong for jobs
wrong for environment


and here is another case where I work on an issue , I read and anylize an issue.. and I post it up.

You do a Google search and think your knowlegable.

Read a book one in a while

Same safety regs?--yup, inspected by the same inspectors who inspect the the trucks operating in the trade zone now--Transportation Department inspectors, not Border Patrol.

wrong for jobs---yea, wrong for union truckers but not for non-union companys

wrong for environment--maybe, maybe not---How much sense does it make now for empty trucks to drive to the border zones to off load the Mexican trucks? How much sense does it make right now that for every Mexican truck in the 20 mile border zone there has to be another truck to off load to?
Also when the new rules go in place Mexican trucks will still not be able to leave the trade zone with out first having secured a load for the return trip---sounds to me that we might actually have less empty trucks clogging the interstates and polluting.

A con man---I don't think so---living in Texas I think this issue will affect me more than you---so I am not conning, I am responding with my opinion.

Give me a break with this self-serving read and study the issue crap. If you have an opinion--post it as such--

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Suff
The handful of valiant American warriors fighting the ''other'' war in Afghanistan is not a happy band of brothers. They are undermanned and feel neglected, lack confidence in their generals and are disgusted by Afghan political leadership. Most important, they are appalled by the immense but fruitless effort to find Osama bin Laden for purposes of U.S. politics.

This bleak picture goes unreported because journalists are rarely seen there. It was painted to me by hard U.S. fighters who are committed to the war against terrorism but have a heavy heart. They talked to me not to undermine policy but to reveal problems that should and can be corrected.

Afghanistan constitutes George W. Bush's clearest victory since the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The Taliban regime has been overthrown, eliminating al-Qaida's most important base. But the overlooked war continues with no end in sight. Narcotics trafficking is at an all-time high. If U.S. forces were to leave, the Taliban -- or something like it -- would regain power. The United States is lost in Afghanistan, bound to this wild country and unable to leave.

The situation in Afghanistan, as laid out to me, looks nothing like a country alleged to be progressing toward representative democracy under American tutelage. Hamid Karzai, the U.S.-sponsored Afghan president, is regarded by the U.S. troops as hopelessly corrupt and kept in power by U.S. force of arms.

Those arms are not what they seem. The basic U.S. strength in Afghanistan is 17,000 troops of ''straight-legged'' infantry -- conventional forces ill-prepared to handle irregulars. The new unit assigned to Afghanistan is the 25th Infantry Division, which has been stationed at Schofield Barracks, Hawaii, and has not seen combat since the Vietnam War.

More important than this conventional infantry division are two commando units known as Black SOF (Special Operations Forces) and White SOF. Black SOF, by far the more numerous of the two, is assigned to capture Osama bin Laden. Nothing would do more to boost President Bush's sagging popularity than getting the designer of the 9/11 attacks.

The problem is that nobody I have talked to in the military thinks his capture is likely or may even be possible. The American fighting men think ''UBL'' (as he is called) is hiding in Pakistan, impossible to find. Most exasperating to the men in the field is the manpower and effort expended on what they consider to be a helpless cause.

It is White SOF that is given the task of confronting armed narco-terrorists. There are hardly more than 100 American soldiers assigned to this duty, many of them bearded and dressed as Afghans. They are augmented by British and New Zealand special forces, CIA paramilitaries and U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency operatives.

They are also hamstrung by senior officers who may be expert in conventional warfare but are at a loss to understand American troops who are far closer in style to Lawrence of Arabia than George Patton. The special operations soldiers and junior officers have a low opinion of Lt. Gen. David W. Barno, the U.S. military commander. On paper, he looks good: West Pointer, Ranger, veteran of the Grenada and Panama invasions. But they grumble that Barno does not have a clue.

It is a strange war, with the JAGs -- Judge Advocate General military lawyers -- given a hand in military decisions. My sources tell of commanders, despite credible intelligence of enemy forces, calling off air strikes on the advice of JAGs. This is the kind of restraint the U.S. military has experienced starting with the Korean War, when as a noncombat Army officer, I knew our forces had their hands tied behind their backs.

I am told that one discouraged and now discharged Special Forces officer, who always has voted Republican and admires Bush, thought about contacting a former military colleague now advising John Kerry. He decided that would accomplish nothing and would inject him in politics. Being lost in Afghanistan transcends politics and is a long-term American burden.

Ok, so out of this article which may or may not have truths in it you got the following:

1. we have exactly 100 people looking for osama, 100 national guards from maine---a national guard unit that hasn't seen combat since korea.
2. we know where he is but for political reasons, our president will not go get him.

And you wonder why I question some of your claims about posting facts.:confused:

[Secretariat]

Suff,

This is just opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bin Laden is found just in time for the election.

[JustRalph]

I got this out of the article. There are 17k troops over there. Some black ops and more. BTW I read this article when it first came out. I read novak most of the time, along with a thousand others. But I see nothing about National Guard troops. But I did read this:

Those arms are not what they seem. The basic U.S. strength in Afghanistan is 17,000 troops of ''straight-legged'' infantry -- conventional forces ill-prepared to handle irregulars. The new unit assigned to Afghanistan is the 25th Infantry Division, which has been stationed at Schofield Barracks, Hawaii, and has not seen combat since the Vietnam War.

More important than this conventional infantry division are two commando units known as Black SOF (Special Operations Forces) and White SOF. Black SOF, by far the more numerous of the two, is assigned to capture Osama bin Laden. Nothing would do more to boost President Bush's sagging popularity than getting the designer of the 9/11 attacks

It doesn't seem to me that there are only 100 guard troops looking for UBL? Suff, If I missed something fill me in will ya?

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Suff,

This is just opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bin Laden is found just in time for the election.

In your opinion; would that be good or bad news?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by schweitz
In your opinion; would that be good or bad news?

If legit then, in my opinion it would be good news. Why wouldn't it? However if it is manipulation then it would be a bad thing.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Secretariat
If legit then, in my opinion it would be good news. Why wouldn't it? However if it is manipulation then it would be a bad thing.

I agree.

[Tom]

If we know generally wehre he is hiding, screw the 100 guys looking for him and nuke the area. Close counts in horse shoes and gerneades...and nukes.
I am not kidding. Take the damn gloves off and send a clear message these maggots hiding him.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Tom
If we know generally wehre he is hiding, screw the 100 guys looking for him and nuke the area. Close counts in horse shoes and gerneades...and nukes.
I am not kidding. Take the damn gloves off and send a clear message these maggots hiding him.

I think if we really knew where he was we would go get him---its a big world out there. It is also possible that we got him a long time ago and just don't know it..

[Secretariat]

It is pretty amazing that a man on kidney dialysis in the primitive environment of Afghansitan can go three years without his whereabouts or leads regarding his medical condition. Who was his doctor I wonder? What hospitals has he been in before?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Secretariat
It is pretty amazing that a man on kidney dialysis in the primitive environment of Afghansitan can go three years without his whereabouts or leads regarding his medical condition. Who was his doctor I wonder? What hospitals has he been in before?
Exactly my point-he is being sheltered/hidden/aided by those who are against us, to qutoe W.
Personally, I do not believ ehe is na cave anywahere near where we are supposedly looking-maybe this is why so few people are out there, if that is indeed true. I think he is hinding in plain sight in a large muselm city. Most of the major Al Qeada leaders caught so far have been in cities, have they not?
I do not belive very many muslems are looking for him I absolutely do not trust the Saudi's at all. I think we are sharing intelligence with muslems who are in turn using it to protect OBL.
I tink W is more or less acting like a rube in this hunt for the demon.

[schweitz]

If he is still alive---the real problem has been the gutting of the CIA in the past---we don't have the "on the ground" capabilities that we should have.

[JustRalph]

there is some intelligence out there that says UBL is actually in Iran. There are supposedly 2 decoys out there too..........maybe the decoys are still in the mountains..........

[Suff]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by schweitz
Same safety regs?--yup, inspected by the same inspectors who inspect the the trucks operating in the trade zone now--Transportation Department inspectors, not Border Patrol.

We cannot properly secure our borders now. Thats a Known fact.
And if you beleve that the Transporation Dept and Border patrol are suffiecently staffed and Funded to handle this change then you kidding yourself. There is no way a Reasonable person could find safety in this new law. I'm afraid that your automatic acceptance of this change indicates that you cannnot make rational judgements. You side with The republicans at the risk of our national security and our workers.. union and non-union alike. I find this unaccpetable. I rarely get into long debates with members I know nothing about. You showed here a few months back or 2 ? But anway.. Your unreasonable and your posting blindly following Bush right or wrong.

I'm done
]

[schweitz]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suff
[QUOTE]Originally posted by schweitz
Same safety regs?--yup, inspected by the same inspectors who inspect the the trucks operating in the trade zone now--Transportation Department inspectors, not Border Patrol.

We cannot properly secure our borders now. Thats a Known fact.
And if you beleve that the Transporation Dept and Border patrol are suffiecently staffed and Funded to handle this change then you kidding yourself. There is no way a Reasonable person could find safety in this new law. I'm afraid that your automatic acceptance of this change indicates that you cannnot make rational judgements. You side with The republicans at the risk of our national security and our workers.. union and non-union alike. I find this unaccpetable. I rarely get into long debates with members I know nothing about. You showed here a few months back or 2 ? But anway.. Your unreasonable and your posting blindly following Bush right or wrong.

I'm done
] [/QUOTE

A. As far as terriosm goes, so far we have had more problems with our border with Canada. In my opinion neither border is safe nor are our ports.

B. There are 4.5 million Mexican truck crossings into the US a year right now, yes into the 20 mile trade zone--and there are contraband and safety inspections going on---how many trucks do think cross into the US from Canada in a year?

C. Like I said, Nafta regulations were to allow Mexican trucks free access to the US in the year 2000---but Clinton blocked this because of pressure from the Teamsters.

D. Now you are going to tell me that I can't make rational judgements--very funny.

E. You don't get into long debates with menbers you don't know anything about---then don't post on a open bb--just debate those you know by e-mail---If you don't want to debate me--try getting your "facts" straight in the first place.

F. " I showed up here a couple of months ago"--what does that mean--am I pledging a fraternity? For the record I started posting here 6 months ago and have been lurking for years--back before PA was even using vBulletin-

G. If unreasonable is challanging your "facts"---if unreasonable is having a different view or opinion than you---if unreasonable is voting Republican on most issues (but not all)----then I guess in your eyes I am unreasonable.

H. Your done?---I doubt it---your obvious hatred for Bush will be posted again.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by schweitz
If he is still alive---the real problem has been the gutting of the CIA in the past---we don't have the "on the ground" capabilities that we should have.

We have NEVER had good Arab infiltration by the CIA...NEVER..no matter which party. We continually rely on the Israeli Mossad to provide us intelligence which of course has its own agenda. We have NEVER had good "on the ground" capabilities in these rogue nations such as Iran since the Shah was deposed and it is questionable how good CIA was back then. Our perceptions of Arab leaders has been abysmal in the past - supporting Saddam Hussein, supplying arms to Bin Laden and the Muhjadein...we'll see where our relation with Khabarraf gets us or our continued support of the MONARCHIES (not democracies) of Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Kuwait. Personally, IF the Iraq experiment in democracy is successful, we may have a revolution brewing in Saudi Arabia demanding its own democracy, AND I doubt if those "freedom fighters" will take to okindly to a US which supported the current monarchy in the interests of oil.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Secretariat
We have NEVER had good Arab infiltration by the CIA...NEVER..no matter which party. We continually rely on the Israeli Mossad to provide us intelligence which of course has its own agenda. We have NEVER had good "on the ground" capabilities in these rogue nations such as Iran since the Shah was deposed and it is questionable how good CIA was back then. Our perceptions of Arab leaders has been abysmal in the past - supporting Saddam Hussein, supplying arms to Bin Laden and the Muhjadein...we'll see where our relation with Khabarraf gets us or our continued support of the MONARCHIES (not democracies) of Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Kuwait. Personally, IF the Iraq experiment in democracy is successful, we may have a revolution brewing in Saudi Arabia demanding its own democracy, AND I doubt if those "freedom fighters" will take to okindly to a US which supported the current monarchy in the interests of oil.

I agree, but we could have had and should have better infiltration.
Without question if Iraq's democracy works it will create more problems---but that will be the beginning of the end for radical islamists--because it's tough to recruit from a democratic, educated, free society.

[Tom]

We are getting Saudi help in fighting terror.
Bin Laden has close ties to the Saudis.
We share intelligence with the Saudis.
We can' t find Bin Laden.

Uh-huh!:rolleyes:

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Tom
We are getting Saudi help in fighting terror.
Bin Laden has close ties to the Saudis.
We share intelligence with the Saudis.
We can' t find Bin Laden.

Uh-huh!:rolleyes:

Saudi government has had an arrest warrant out on Osama since 1993 and has revoked his citizenship. Osama is also estranged from the rest of his family.

[Tom]

Originally posted by schweitz
Saudi government has had an arrest warrant out on Osama since 1993 and has revoked his citizenship. Osama is also estranged from the rest of his family.

Publically, perhaps. Privately.....I don't buy it.
Did you hear that POS King on AllJibbeerish the other day, blamng ISRAEL! for the terror attacks?
Good rule to live by-don't bend over in front of a Saudi.