D. Wayne?

[KingChas]

After watching the races on Espn Saturday,I found the interview with Azeri's ex trainer interesting.Azeri was taken away from her because the owner wanted a more VIGOROUS campaign for her.This trainer did nothing wrong with Azeri.She spotted her well and always made sure she was sound.Azeri's now trained by D. Wayne Lukas as we all know.I'm sure Azeri will get a RIGOROUS campaign with DWL.I will wait until 2005 to pass judgement.Hope the Champs still with us then!

[Observer]

No, there was nothing wrong with the campaign DeSeroux put Azeri through, except that it was never really ambitious. That's great that Azeri won as much as she did. But, at the same time, you can't blame an owner for wanting to put some challenges before his horse. That's what the game is all about .. it's horse racing .. who's horse is best .. or at least fastest on any given day. And yes, Lukas is certainly a trainer who fits that mold, because he is ambitous with his runners .. and it has paid off at times. He takes chances many others would not.

However, with regard specifically to Azeri .. what trainer would have said NO to Mr. Paulson had he shown up on their doorstep in his quest for a new trainer??? None! Azeri would be a pleasure for anyone to take into their barn. Unfortunately, it goes with the territory, that if you are going to take more risks, the rewards are likely to be less .. but that much more sweeter when they do come. But, if you never put something to the test, how can you know just how truly special something might be??? And that's not saying Azeri isn't special .. but in all honesty, for much of her career, criticisms were common that Azeri just kept "beating up on the same poor horses, and what does that prove??"

This situation appears to be a catch-22 .. and apparently this is one battle, on either side, that Azeri keeps coming up the loser. She was knocked for always beating the same group of runners, and now she'll be knocked because of the blemishes that have developed with this new, ambitious campaign.

Most importantly, I think it's key to remember, there were people saying last year already that Azeri had lost a step. Her return race this year was absolutely amazing. However, it would be understandable if she actually had lost a step. But should Paulson and Lukas be criticized for that. If she's healthy and competitive, I for one would love to continue to see her run. Nothing is going to take away what she's already accomplished. The problem there is most people never actually appreciated what she accomplished until this trainer change happened.

[Tom]

Which is better: a conservative winner or an agressive loser?
It is only my opinon, but the two losing races spak a lot more about Azeri than the one win this year.
I see Lady's Secret all over again.
Horses run on their legs but win on their hearts. I thinkg LS has to have been affected by two consectutive loses after being such a dominant winner so long. I do not thinnk she will ever win another race.
Before you point out the obvious excuse in the last race, let me say, I don't care. Horses aren't machines Time will tell.
Hey, I predicted War Emblem to lose the derby by 30! (I was 5 weeks early on that one).
So what do I know?

[kenwoodallpromos]

It's the owner's dime. If the trainer has aproblem she should have bought the horse.

[KingChas]

Originally posted by kenwoodallpromos
It's the owner's dime. If the trainer has aproblem she should have bought the horse.

This is very true.But would the deceased owner have done this?So much for letting your estate to your children.

PS;Tom is right horses aren't machines and jockeys are humans, thats what scares me about D. Wayne Lukas.

[CryingForTheHorses]

This is a very interesting thread,One that I can well relate to,Here you have a owner where money means nothing!!,Here you have a trainer that thinks winning this money for the owner is ok..Trainer will think she is a star and she should feel that way by wnning these races.The owner wants a more rigorous campaign for the filly..Whats wrong with the girl..Is she soo bad?. Nothing in the world pisses me off more then the politics of the racetrack...Big trainer against a small trainer..Big owner embarrassed because his filly isnt winning THE BIG ONES.Im sure they both could have sat down and talked this out. DWAYNE snowballed her..She didnt deserve that as Im very sure she worked and worried about that horse nite and day!!. Every small trainer has a dream to have a nice horse in his barn to prove imself, Seems there is always somebody knocking what you do to the owner.I say it was a bad rap for the girl and a worse rap for the filly

[The_Knight_Sky]

I know this is in hindsight but I haven't been around this forum
to chime in on this.

Two glaring errors have already been made by Mr. Paulson
and Team Lukas in their handling of Azeri.:mad:

First off - Azeri had a tour-de-force at Oaklawn in a two turn route.
So why the cut back to 7 furlongs in the Humana Distaff?
It was a plausibility that second race regression and the faster pace set by Randaroo
would not bode well for her on Derby Day.
She lost in a stunner (to Mayo On The Side of all equines!)
but we should not have been surprised.

Second mistake - instead of building back her confidence
Azeri gets thrown to the wolves in The Metropolitan Handicap
and is not up to challenge Pico Central and the boys.
A tougher task after a loss to Mayo On The Side!

Rumor has it on my other forum - that she will be entered
next weekend at Belmont Park in The Ogden Phipps Handicap.
Without knowing who else will be entered - do you think
she will be deserving of her morning line favoritism?

[Observer]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
...DWAYNE snowballed her...

Seems to me there were issues last year already that Paulson wanted Azeri to face the boys. The conflicts of where to race seemed to be brewing last year between owner and former trainer .. so how is it that D. Wayne snowballed her .. it was pretty much everyone who was crying out about the lack of competition and the desire to see her face males. Heck, when Azeri was named horse of the year two years ago, many people were against it because she not only hadn't beaten boys, she hadn't even faced them .. but by "default" she got horse of the year, basically because she ran an amazing BC Distaff, and everyone else ran poorly that same afternoon. But, okay .. D. Wayne snowballed her.
:rolleyes:

[Observer]

Originally posted by The_Knight_Sky
...So why the cut back to 7 furlongs in the Humana Distaff?
..

Because they were prepping for the Met Mile, and because they have made it very clear they want to stick with Grade I races, which the Humana Distaff is, as opposed to the race Sightseek entered and ran up the track in on the same weekend at Churchill.

From my understanding, the Phipps is next on the agenda because .. again .. it's a Grade I.

[Buckeye]

Let's face it, she ain't no Lady's Secret or Winning Colors-- let alone the greatest of them all, and no, not a Personal Ensign either. The wolves had their way with her, and it's too bad. At the shorter distances, she also could not compete with Safely Kept or Xtra Heat.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, she sucks. And according to KingChas, she's most likely dead in a few weeks, so get your shovels and your sympathy Mass cards ready for the funeral...maybe we can bury her next to Ruffian at Belmont Park, right??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Give me a f'in break....and I don't use f'in lightly....

Tom, she's never going to win again? Can I book that bet?

You people aren't serious, right?

[Buckeye]

Keep her away from the boys, that's all. It's for her own good.

[Valuist]

I think Vegas could come up with a great cross sport prop: Which will happen first?

a)Azeri wins another race (assuming Paulson sticks to his plan of only Grade 1s) or

b)Kurt Warner wins another game as a starter in the NFL. Its only been 2.5 years since he won a game as a starter.

[SAL]

I would take A in a heartbeat. I agree with PA, I think Azeri will rebound and resume her winning ways against the females. I'd like to see her try turf too.

[PaceAdvantage]

Think clearly folks....

She lost that race two back by a nose, at a distance she was completely unfamiliar with, and a trip that easily could have cost her the victory.

Then she runs up the track in the Met Mile against the boys.

How does this equate to "She'll never win again", and "I hope the Champ is still with us in 2005" which translates to "D. Wayne is likely going to get Azeri killed"????????

Sorry if I keep harping on this, but I'm having a hard time wrapping myself around this line of thinking.

[Observer]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
... She lost that race two back by a nose, at a distance she was completely unfamiliar with, and a trip that easily could have cost her the victory. ...

Plus, she was carrying 11 pounds more than Mayo on the Side .. that nose loss was a tremendous effort under the circumstances.

[cj]

Originally posted by Observer
Plus, she was carrying 11 pounds more than Mayo on the Side .. that nose loss was a tremendous effort under the circumstances.

Tremendous? I wouldn't go that far...if both were at their best, Mayo shouldn't have been able to warm up Azeri, even with a bigger weight spread. Azeri has been flat the last two.

I didn't expect her to much in the Met, but she did even less than that, a complete non-factor. She may very well win this weekend, but if any real competition shows up, I'll bet against her at the underlaid odds she will be.

[Observer]

The trip Azeri had was dreadful .. she lost ground at a crucial point in the race .. you can't have those things go wrong, especially in a sprint .. no matter who you are.

And could it be that maybe Mayo is rounding into career top form??? Prior to the Humana Distaff, she won the Doubledogdare .. and is now 2-for-2 with Day aboard.

[KingChas]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
[B]Yeah, she sucks. And according to KingChas, she's most likely dead in a few weeks, so get your shovels and your sympathy Mass cards ready for the funeral...maybe we can bury her next to Ruffian at Belmont Park, right??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I was more concerned about the DWL bootcamp at Azeri's age.I will put it kindly lets hope she isn't lame by 2005!

[PaceAdvantage]

People complain that horses are coddled in this day and age. Then they complain that they are overrun. Who's right? You can't win, right?

People say horses aren't as sturdy as they were "back then"

Where's the proof in this? Just because trainers don't run horses 3 times a week anymore?

[KingChas]

She is not young anymore doesn't need to sprint or hard workouts(often).If DWL had her at 2 I would feel more comfortable than now.I feel she has already peaked.Still can be very good.Azeri knows what she needs to do.The older you get the less work you need>Ask my wife she will agree!

[PaceAdvantage]

I won't even pretend to answer your latest post, because I don't have sufficient knowledge in that area.

But, I don't think I would agree that just because a horse is older doesn't mean it should be training any less. Training = Fitness.

If a 10 year old horse has been off for 6 months, does it need less training than a 4 year old who has been off for the same amount of time?

I would think the 10yo would need MORE training!

Ooops, maybe I just did pretend to answer your post!!!

Maybe someone with more knowledge in the training of race horses will step in and help us out here.

[KingChas]

My point is Champion Horses are smart they can almost train themselves.What DWL needs to do is read her body language which I'm sure he is capable of doing.Azeri knows shes a champ but we all remember when we could -jump higher, run faster,heal quicker,be invinsible,and in our MINDS we still can.But unfotunately not with our BODYS.You see my point?

[DJofSD]

in our MINDS we still can.But unfotunately not with our BODYS

Yes, what I use to do all night now takes me all night to do <BG>.

DJofSD

[KingChas]

Champs had One too many.I rest my case.

[PaceAdvantage]

What case? This is her only bad race, if you forgive the Met Mile against males.

What case?

[KingChas]

Come on PA they got this horse so screwed up its pathetic.She didn't need the 7f race she didn't need the Met Mile.Shes a 2- turn horse cant DWL & the jerk owner figure this out?She's probably lost all the confidence she ever had.Sorry, she was staggering so bad at the end I almost closed my eyes.The case is she might be done!

PS; third race off layoff- off form-overraced-overtrained-undermanaged?

[PaceAdvantage]

What did you think, she was going to break down? Please....

I don't disagree that she might not be totally screwed up. New barn, new trainer, now NEW JOCKEY....racing against males, cutting back in distance, new track in Belmont....

It's a hell of a lot to take in only 2+ months.

I don't disagree something is very wrong. What I disagree with is the somewhat automatic response by some that she needs to be retired.

Unless she is hurt, there is no NEED to stop on her. What there is a need for is a little regrouping, and a hard look at what is going on. I don't think its any coincidence that since Mike Smith was taken off, Azeri has run like crap. That is definitely, in my opinion, a big part of the equation.


ps. OVERRACED????? Come on. She was on vacation for quite a long time, and only returned in early April. How can you say she is overraced?

[cj]

The 7 furlong race on Derby Day was a bad race...those horses were NOTHING! Mayo was dusted badly, at 1-5 no less, at AP yesterday. All because she beat Azeri. I thought Azeri might rebound yesterday back to the Oaklawn race, instead she just continued her decline. Every race since OP has been worse than the one before it...its not looking good.

[KingChas]

By overraced I don't mean 3 races .I mean time between races .Most horses are peaking on their 3rd race off layoff.She's regressing not a good sign.

[PaceAdvantage]

By the way KingChas, let me point two things out to you that you might have missed in Azeri's latest race......

1) Azeri wasn't the only one staggering....Sightseek, although a big winner, had shortened stride considerably towards the end...she was tired as well

2) If Azeri was so tired, and so spent yesterday, why the hell was she IN FRONT OF EVERYONE as they GALLOPED OUT!!! She was PAST Sightseek BEFORE they hit the Clubhouse turn at the end of yesterday's race!!! THAT was the most surprising thing to me as I watched the race over again.....


Something strange indeed is going on with Azeri. I think her head is more messed up than her body.....

[Tee]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
By the way KingChas, let me point two things out to you that you might have missed in Azeri's latest race......

1) Azeri wasn't the only one staggering....Sightseek, although a big winner, had shortened stride considerably towards the end...she was tired as well

2) If Azeri was so tired, and so spent yesterday, why the hell was she IN FRONT OF EVERYONE as they GALLOPED OUT!!! She was PAST Sightseek BEFORE they hit the Clubhouse turn at the end of yesterday's race!!! THAT was the most surprising thing to me as I watched the race over again.....


Something strange indeed is going on with Azeri. I think her head is more messed up than her body.....

C'mon PA,

SFF was gaining on Sightseek as she went under the wire as well, cuz Sightseek was under wraps, being shut down.

Here are the comments from the result chart.

Sightseek: speed between rivals, argued pace, drew away, wrapped up late.

How a thoroughbred gallops out is totally up to the jock. Bailey shut Sightseek down, the real running was over with. Pat Day gave Azeri the freedom to gallop out, which is his prerogative & is better than jamming her into the ground trying to pull her up if indeed she was tired.

[Buckeye]

Azeri was (forgive me) fourth!
If it was because she didn't like the track or she wouldn't run for Pat Day, then most likely, we will see. I've already shown they're racing Azeri more frequently than before. Perhaps a more delicate touch is in order. I say, throw her to the wolve-ettes, if you don't believe she should stop racing now.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by teeitup
How a thoroughbred gallops out is totally up to the jock. Bailey shut Sightseek down, the real running was over with. Pat Day gave Azeri the freedom to gallop out, which is his prerogative & is better than jamming her into the ground trying to pull her up if indeed she was tired.


All I'm saying is that a staggering, beaten, dead-tired horse does NOT gallop out ahead of all those that beat her (and BEAT HER SOUNDLY) before they hit the clubhouse turn.....that's all I'm saying.

[KingChas]

PA I didn't take notice of them galloping out to be honest with you.What are you suggesting P.jr. and DWL are setting up a betting coup?

[KingChas]

PA I'm putting a C-note aside for her next race!Did you read the DRF poll on whether she should be retired as of today 6/23/04-73% yes?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by KingChas
PA I didn't take notice of them galloping out to be honest with you.What are you suggesting P.jr. and DWL are setting up a betting coup?

Not at all. I just thought it was a very interesting observation, considering you said you almost had to close your eyes because Azeri was staggering home so badly.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by KingChas
PA I'm putting a C-note aside for her next race!Did you read the DRF poll on whether she should be retired as of today 6/23/04-73% yes?

So what? If they retire her, that's great. Hopefully, they'll be making that decision for all the right reasons, and not because of some poll done on a group of people who have no hands on knowledge of the situation.

I don't claim to have any hands on knowledge of the situation either, but I'm also not one standing on the front lines screaming "retire her now!!!"

Knee-jerk has never been my specialty.

[Valuist]

Sightseek was so wrapped up she basically started her gallop-out at the 1/16th pole. Some people are big on this angle but I've never been a believer in the "passed everyone after the finish line" angle.

[ceejay]

There's no way that I can put a good face on her Ogden P performance, but I, for one, would like to see Azeri run again. The sport loses too many of it's stars to the breeding shed too young.

I think that the LS surface and a 2-turn BC Distaff may suit Azeri well. (Maybe she just likes the central time zone, where she's never been beaten ;) )

[OTM Al]

I don't see any point of retiring her now unless there is an injury. Might as well let her run a few more. Not like she can go to breeding this year. Let her run til fall and then retire her. She could well still have a good one left in her. She may not be what she was, but she is still a star.

[DeoVolente]

Lukas has lost it. I'd have agreed with that even before this last Azeri
fiasco. If he had put her in that race the day before the Derby she'd have won
that easy. Then a little break and she'd have set up perfectly for this race
last weekend.

It's definite that she wasn't hurt, after all she came back and ran her lifetime
best in the Apple Blossom. But after that it's been nothing but hideous
mismangement. D. Wayne needs to start thinking inside the box again.

[PaceAdvantage]

If you blame Lukas, you also have to blame Paulson. He's quite the active owner, is he not?

[KingChas]

Yes sir Paulson Sr. is probably rolling over right now!The kid should have left well enough alone.Lisa D. did an excellent job with this horse.Did anyone ever ponder that this horse is homesick?

[PaceAdvantage]

I've definitely pondered that. It can easily explain some things.

[Tom]

Certainly sounds like a classic case of fixing something that wasn't broken. Paulsen was meant to be rich, cause the rich are allowed to be stupid.
Does he think he is manging Arazi instead of Azzeri?

I knew an old trainer a long time ago- he was 77 and still training. He told me the difference between an owner and a trainer was that the owner had the money and the trainer had the brains.

[Buckeye]

Is bleeding a good sign? She needs a L-O-N-G and deserved rest. D Wayne: "We can fix that" -- sure you can.

[PaceAdvantage]

She just had a long and deserved rest. Maybe they should just retire her and put and end to all speculation from armchair trainers.

[KingChas]

Espn on Azeri
http://espn.go.com/horse/columns/misc/1831024.html

[PaceAdvantage]

Thanks for the link KingChas.

[Dancer's Image]

(the article from ESPN.com...I particularly like the last paragraph)

Monday, June 28

The good sports behind Azeri's return

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Bill Finley
Special to ESPN.com


Racing needs stars and it need its stars to stay in training, at least long enough that they can have a lasting impact on the public before being whisked off to the breeding shed. The same refrain is heard year after year from every corner–the press, the fans, the industry--as one marquee horse after another ends their careers well before we've gotten our fill of them.
Wouldn't it be great to see Empire Maker racing this year, taking on Pleasantly Perfect and, some day, Smarty Jones? Aren't we salivating at the idea of Smarty Jones sticking around for a 4-year-old campaign rather than cashing in right away on his potential as a sire?
So why is that an owner and trainer of one of the best horses and biggest stars of her era are being ripped to pieces for foregoing retirement so that she could race as a 6-year-old?
That's been the case ever since it was announced by owner Michael Paulson that Azeri would come out of retirement and be turned over to Wayne Lukas so that she could compete this year. Most sided with trainer Laura De Seroux, who said Azeri had a tendon problem and needed to be retired after she was upset in the Lady's Secret and then trained poorly for the Breeders' Cup Distaff, a race she never made. Some argued that Lukas was so desperate to get a top horse into his crumbling stable that he sold Paulson a bill of goods, convincing him that he'd could have Azeri better than ever and ready to conquer any horse at any time or place.
Never mind that De Seroux had guided Azeri through an extremely cautious campaign in which she never faced males, rarely left California and tackled the same bunch of overmatched fillies and mares race after race rather than accepting more sporting challenges. That sort of handling clearly had left Paulson dissatisfied. The real mistake he made was not demanding that De Seroux take off the kid gloves and showcase a brilliant filly against males or at places like Saratoga and Belmont. The time to have done it was when she was in her prime, not now.
Obviously, Paulson dreamed of greater accomplishments and Lukas, who has had tremendous success over the year with fillies, including a couple who have won Grade I races over males, seemed just the person to achieve them.
The criticism intensified after Azeri was a dismal fourth in the June 19 Ogden Phipps Handicap in her most recent start, finishing 11 3/4 lengths behind Sightseek. A start earlier, she was eighth in the Met Mile in her first career start against males. The party line is pretty much this: Lukas and Paulson have mismanaged Azeri to the point where they have turned a once great champion into an embarrassingly poor imitation of herself.
There's no doubt that Azeri isn't the same horse she was in 2002 and for most of 2003, when she won divisional championships each year and was named Horse of the Year in 2002. But neither has her 2004 campaign been a complete disaster. She temporarily quieted the skeptics when she kicked off her year with an impressive win in the Grade I Apple Blossom. Wanting to keep Azeri in Grade I races, Lukas sent her into the Humana Distaff, though it is a seven furlong race and isn't run at her best distance. She was beaten, but by a mere head. In the Met Mile, she was clearly overmatched. In the Phipps, she bled, Lukas is now reporting.
"She bled significantly," he said. "Now that I know this, I will take the precautions next time she runs. It's a fixable deal."
He says he's pointing toward the Aug. 1 Go for Wand at Saratoga, where she'll likely get another crack at Sightseek. Maybe she will bounce back. Maybe she won't, but that still won't mean that Lukas and Paulson deserve such scorn. All they are guilty of is taking a chance, a rare thing in a sport where people don't dream of greatness on the racetrack but riches in the breeding shed. Even if it hasn't worked out perfectly, they should be commended for what has been a sporting gesture. There are a lot of owners and trainers out there who could learn from them.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't get it. The link works perfectly. Why the reprint?

[Dancer's Image]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I don't get it. The link works perfectly. Why the reprint?

The link did not work for me....I had to leave PA.com; go to netscape, pull up ESPN and find the article. I figured after doing all that, I might as well copy and paste the whole article for anyone else to read.

[CryingForTheHorses]

For what its worth:
Here you once again have a horse in a BIG barn!.I dont care what anybody says...Horses are individuals!!!. Here is a filly that is crying out for some help...Im sure she ran a good race but she may have issues bothering her.The wonders of medicine are great and yes you say she is with the best people..I dont agree!.Filly's are funny animals to train (was always taught to save the fillies for the fall) Te cooler air puts a spring into their step,Gone are the days of old time training,Never breezing 2 yo's,Never run a 2yo until late fall.I eel this filly needs a break,( She needs to come to me.).She also needs to be with a "Sharpe Horseman", not just a guy that can talk turkey. I feel that this is what has happened to this filly...Even the girl had a big barn.I just Wish for a horse like this.This filly needs a trainer that can read her every move, not a guy who is always in the media

[PaceAdvantage]

So she never ran in hot weather in CALIFORNIA all those times?

[ceejay]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
I just Wish for a horse like this.

What trainer wouldn't wish for a past horse of the year and two-time divisional champion?

[KingChas]

I'm giving this whole situation a chance(Impatient Thou).I am rooting for Azeri and connections(believe it or not PA).Ijust don't want to see her going out like a punch drunk boxer(On the floor out for the count).I would love to see her win B.C. and go out in style.(At a juicey price-LOL).

PS: Then have passionate sex with Smarty Jones

PSS:Azeri not me that would hurt(LOL)

[PaceAdvantage]

To be completely honest with you, I don't know what I want with Azeri at this point. I was never a really huge fan of hers to begin with. I grew to like her a lot more when she won her comeback race in such fine fashion.

Yes, I'd like to see her race a few more times with a chance at returning to glory. But, if they retired her tomorrow, I wouldn't be too upset.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I can see there is NO sense posting on this board anymore...PA you seem to love to throw people in the Garbage can,You did ask for a trainers opinion..I gave it and you have to have some other smart answer..Hot weather in Cali...yes Im sure she ran in it...

[PaceAdvantage]

What are you talking about? That was an honest response.

Filly's are funny animals to train (was always taught to save the fillies for the fall) Te cooler air puts a spring into their step

I pointed out that she has been very successful in warmer climates. What's the problem?

If you don't want a debate, please make that clear, and I won't respond.

[Observer]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Filly's are funny animals to train

Lukas has had some of his best success with getting fillies to do amazing things.

[KingChas]

Originally posted by KingChas
PA I didn't take notice of them galloping out to be honest with you.What are you suggesting P.jr. and DWL are setting up a betting coup?

I think I was watching TVG today or was I dreaming?Azeri workout 4f in 45 something?What in the hell is going on here.Is this true?Something starting to smell fishy here.Lasix?I'm starting to believe somebodys setting a coup up one way or the other.Thats Amazing!

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes, Azeri had a sharp work the other day.....

She will be going in the Grade 1 Go For Wand at Saratoga for her next start.

[Observer]

Azeri has been training sharply all along for Lukas.

[TravisVOX]

I can't wait to see AZERI while working for the Saratoga Special this year.

And everyone who complains about Lukas, lets not forget such horses as Winning Colors, Tabasco Cat, Timber Country, Thunder Gulch etc.

He's a machine, bottom line...at least she's racing...if she can't win next out I'll forgive and forget he horse. But, as long as she can...why not? She wins at Saratoga, Lukas is king...she's up the track, he's fired blanks. Doesn't take anything away from him though, he's revolutionized a lot of racing.

[KingChas]

D Wayne does not have anything to prove.He deserves his hall of fame status.This thread originated from DWL's training strategies.I think DWL is a more military type trainer(REGIMENTAL).His close freind and protege is Bobby Knight.What does that tell you.Little Physical Huh Guys.When I refer to boot camp I mean you could of done a lot of things to me at 18 that you can't do to me at 46.As compared to Azeri at 2 and
now older.I just don't see DWL as being a very gentle trainer and I think Azeri might be rebelling.As for DWL I would gladly have him train YOUNG horses for me.I'm kinda blanking on this one but has DWL had any success with horses over 4(OLDER}?I'm not being smart about this ,I just can't recall.

[PaceAdvantage]

Criminal Type and Gulch are two off the top of my head.

Farma Way is another....

[KingChas]

How could I forget Criminal Type my big hit at Del. Park simulcast years ago. Paid $20+ to win-can't recall - but big race-cashed in very well-Thank's for the memory PA.

[KingChas]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
I can see there is NO sense posting on this board anymore...PA you seem to love to throw people in the Garbage can,You did ask for a trainers opinion..I gave it and you have to have some other smart answer..Hot weather in Cali...yes Im sure she ran in it...

We are dishing it out -we have to take it back-BORN IN USA.Why so sensitive If everyone agreed with me I wouldn't write?You have written some nice replies.But if you want to be politcally correct don't debate.Nothing personal sir but every person deserves to say what their opinion is. Right or wrong.Right in your mind or not.PA's reply was smart but true .Sorry to lose you.----KingChas

[cj]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Criminal Type and Gulch are two off the top of my head.

Farma Way is another....

Steinlein...on the other hand, I know he didn't train Steinlein and Criminal Type when they were younger, and perhaps Farma Way as well, though I'm not positive on that one.

To be fair, he has had many females who were older champions.