Whose going to go with American Pharoah?

[RacingFan1992]

Most of the horses in the Classic are stalkers who sit off the pace. I think AP is going to be loose on the lead and the only horse I see who can come out of the clouds to snag AP at the wire is Honor Code. Who do you think is going to go with American Pharoah and dictate the pace? I loved how Frosted changed form from the Belmont (Rosario) to the Travers (Lezcano) he went from stalking the pace behind American Pharoah to hugging the hip and wearing down AP. The race is AP's to lose.

[Redboard]

Most of the horses in the Classic are stalkers who sit off the pace. I think AP is going to be loose on the lead and the only horse I see who can come out of the clouds to snag AP at the wire is Honor Code. Who do you think is going to go with American Pharoah and dictate the pace? I loved how Frosted changed form from the Belmont (Rosario) to the Travers (Lezcano) he went from stalking the pace behind American Pharoah to hugging the hip and wearing down AP. The race is AP's to lose.
I don't see anyone pressing him. As you mentioned, Frosted tried that in the Travers, and it didn't work. AP is vunerable, he's not the same horse he was in the summer. Nobody has to press him, he will fade. Gleneagles, Frosted, Keen Ice exacta box.

[PaceAdvantage]

I was of the opinion that there was nobody to go with AP early even before all of the scratches. But I always think this way and he more often than not did not get the big easy lead I thought he would...

So really, it all depends on AP and his connections. My guess is, with all the potential pressers out the door, AP's connections are going to opt to throttle him back as much as possible early, while still maintaining a 1-2 length lead early on...

However, I think this is the wrong way to go...I think he needs to open up a bigger lead than that early on, or else he risks getting caught late.

[PhantomOnTour]

Who's gonna go with Pharoah?

Victor Espinoza :)

[johnhannibalsmith]

I was of the opinion that there was nobody to go with AP early even before all of the scratches. But I always think this way and he more often than not did not get the big easy lead I thought he would...

So really, it all depends on AP and his connections. My guess is, with all the potential pressers out the door, AP's connections are going to opt to throttle him back as much as possible early, while still maintaining a 1-2 length lead early on...

However, I think this is the wrong way to go...I think he needs to open up a bigger lead than that early on, or else he risks getting caught late.

I agree. Not that I think it costs him the race, but all this alleged beneficial scratching just compels everyone to tinker with a style that ain't broke.

[Tom]

Victor has talked about this - he said it was a mistake to throttle him back too far in the Travers.

I look for him to shake and bake today.

[depalma113]

Gleneagles

[NorCalGreg]

Who's gonna go with Pharoah?

Victor Espinoza :)


hahahaha....love it!

[PICSIX]

Victor has talked about this - he said it was a mistake to throttle him back too far in the Travers.

I look for him to shake and bake today.

That is his best strategy for the win.....take the would be pressers out of their comfort zone by making them run faster than they want to early.

[Tommy Tom]

I don't know whose going to go with him but my money is all on Irad and Ice for the WIN and a back up of ALL 2 in exacta's

Here kids are coming to the door for Halloween and the race is minutes away

Happy Halloween :)

[EMD4ME]

Congratulations AP. You earned my respect. Enjoy everyone.

[handyman1968]

Was that a 2 min 10F? If so...that legen...wait for it....dairy!

[Tommy Tom]

Congratulations AP. You earned my respect. Enjoy everyone.

He just earned mine too .....Up until this race I always felt he could be beaten and when Keen Ice with Javier did just that I thought for sure he could be beat again but man, what a performance...

Much respect

[dilanesp]

He's by no means a great horse (he didn't do enough), but he's sort of a lesser version of Affirmed-- a horse who uses his controlling speed to dominate his rivals. And the TC-BC Classic parlay is marvelous.

Enjoy your retirement, AP.

[burnsy]

Whose going with him? Effinex........... :) Thanks AP, great career and I even cashed some nice ones today on you :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Track Phantom]

It's unfortunate that American Pharoah was the controlling speed in paceless races in virtually every start.

He very well may be a top 5 horse of all-time. But we'll never know because of how little he had to do early in a lot of those starts.

You can't say he wasn't great....but he lost the chance, in my opinion, to be considered among the all-time greats because of the race shape in almost every start.

Liam's Map in the race would have really validated where AP sits. That really sucks as a fan that he wasn't in there. I don't blame the owners, as they can run where they want. It just sucks.

[Stillriledup]

It's unfortunate that American Pharoah was the controlling speed in paceless races in virtually every start.

He very well may be a top 5 horse of all-time. But we'll never know because of how little he had to do early in a lot of those starts.

You can't say he wasn't great....but he lost the chance, in my opinion, to be considered among the all-time greats because of the race shape in almost every start.

Liam's Map in the race would have really validated where AP sits. That really sucks as a fan that he wasn't in there. I don't blame the owners, as they can run where they want. It just sucks.

Great management to pick spots where nobody has any speed, must be the greatest feeling in the world to be handed a few million in what amounted to a paid workout.

[cj]

Great management to pick spots where nobody has any speed, must be the greatest feeling in the world to be handed a few million in what amounted to a paid workout.

Yeah, it is there fault that no speed showed up in the BC Classic starting gate. Brilliant placing in the Derby too, such an easy race that one is.

[Stillriledup]

Yeah, it is there fault that no speed showed up in the BC Classic starting gate. Brilliant placing in the Derby too, such an easy race that one is.

Im not looking to lay blame, I'm being complimentary.

[Tall One]

Im not looking to lay blame, I'm being complimentary.


no you're just playing both sides of the argument.


now if you'll excuse me, I have to watch gd Tennessee kick our ass in football..

[mostpost]

He's by no means a great horse (he didn't do enough), but he's sort of a lesser version of Affirmed-- a horse who uses his controlling speed to dominate his rivals. And the TC-BC Classic parlay is marvelous.

Enjoy your retirement, AP.
What would it take to convince you AP is a great horse? Apparently winning the Triple Crown isn't enough. Apparently winning nine races in eleven life time starts isn't enough. Apparently eight firsts and a second in nine grade one races isn't enough. Apparently winning the Breeders Cup Classic isn't enough. Apparently being the first horse in history to win the Triple Crown and then win the Breeders Cup Classic isn't enough.

Don't bother to answer. Your opinion does not change the fact that American Pharoah is a great horse. Your opinion only proves you are not a great thinker.

[nijinski]

He had the look of something special from the time he broke his maiden in the Delmar Futurity at 2 . Gets sidelined and comes back as that same cruising star that he looked like as a 2 yo . This is a special horse ! Having the ability to dominate from the time he gets out of the gate to the finish at the Classic distances , takes a talented pro !

[mostpost]

Great management to pick spots where nobody has any speed, must be the greatest feeling in the world to be handed a few million in what amounted to a paid workout.
I'm not sure how to read this. Do you really think AP's connections planned his races according to whether other early speed was entered. Or were you being tongue in cheek. I certainly hope the latter.

[zico20]

now you're just playing both sides of the argument.


now if you'll excuse me, I have to watch gd Tennessee kick our ass in football..

Only a man of supreme intelligence can successfully argue both sides of a debate. Luckily for all of us, we have one on this board in SRU. :jump:

[dilanesp]

What would it take to convince you AP is a great horse? Apparently winning the Triple Crown isn't enough. Apparently winning nine races in eleven life time starts isn't enough. Apparently eight firsts and a second in nine grade one races isn't enough. Apparently winning the Breeders Cup Classic isn't enough. Apparently being the first horse in history to win the Triple Crown and then win the Breeders Cup Classic isn't enough.

Don't bother to answer. Your opinion does not change the fact that American Pharoah is a great horse. Your opinion only proves you are not a great thinker.

At least 10 more starts. 130 pounds. Track records (Keeneland going 1 1/4 miles doesn't count as that was basically almost never run before).

You know, the stuff Dr. Fager and Spectacular Bid and Man O' War did, which American Pharoah, a non-great horse, never did.

[Fager Fan]

He had the potential, it appears, to put up an all-time top 20 great record. As it stands, he's a cut below that. I'd still rank Cigar as better in the past few decades, and AP would be in the group with Ghostzapper, Skip Away, Holy Bull, Rachel Alexandra, etc. where it's more difficult to decide between them who ranks ahead of the other. The abbreviated record along with lack of challengers are the lroblem for AP. When you can see the race has unfolded like you thought - with no real pace challenge - and know it was handed to him, it took out the wow factor I wanted to see. He got a bigger number here, but his only race that wowed me was his Haskell. I give due props but sure wish I felt it more.

[burnsy]

He had the potential, it appears, to put up an all-time top 20 great record. As it stands, he's a cut below that. I'd still rank Cigar as better in the past few decades, and AP would be in the group with Ghostzapper, Skip Away, Holy Bull, Rachel Alexandra, etc. where it's more difficult to decide between them who ranks ahead of the other. The abbreviated record along with lack of challengers are the lroblem for AP. When you can see the race has unfolded like you thought - with no real pace challenge - and know it was handed to him, it took out the wow factor I wanted to see. He got a bigger number here, but his only race that wowed me was his Haskell. I give due props but sure wish I felt it more.

Well, we agree on this one. Good post. Tons of upside with this horse and he's retired. That leads to the lack of competition you speak of..........unfortunately, that's how the cookie crumbles in todays game.