Peculiar Occurrences

[EMD4ME]

Not starting this thread to say something afoul, let's be clear. Starting it to discuss things that make you go hhmmmmm....why? Coincidence? Something wrong with the horse? Something going on that we don't see.

P O #1) Race 1 Belmont today. 5 and 6 were the speeds. 6 breaks in and takes the lead from the 5. That's not the PO. The 6 led on the rail into the far turn and the rider of the 5 keeps his horse 3 wide plus for most if not all of the far turn run as he takes a firm hold of the 5. Why not stay 2 wide next to the leader? Why blow additional ground?

P O #2) I don't know if I consider this a P O. Manuel Franco wins race 3. Jerks his horse to face the toteboard as the race is official. Does he really need to know how much he paid to win that bad? Or is he looking to see what the horses open up at in race 4? Or was he looking to see who won the photo for 2nd? As he did this, the pony and outrider, yank him to pull him back towards the winner circle.

What have you seen that makes you say hhmmmmm......?

[Kash$]

P.O. Ortiz brothers riding in the same race making decisions that would make people go hmmmm.

[Track Phantom]

Manuel Franco wins race 3. Jerks his horse to face the toteboard as the race is official. Does he really need to know how much he paid to win that bad?

Wow. Dude, you need to take a log off the fire on these conspiracy things. I don't think its healthy. :)

[Stillriledup]

So he has a choice. Either call them out or just ignore it and let the inmates run the asylum.

At any rate, nobody seems to care what jocks are doing, I'm surprised there aren't more shenanigans because whsts the downside? If they want to fix a race they could probably all sit in a huddle together in the jocks room going over strategy, nobody would say anything or care.

They could all head to the windows in their silks and bet and nobody would say a word or care.

How many jocks have been fined, suspended or arrested for odd rides that make no sense?

Zero.

[andtheyreoff]

So he has a choice. Either call them out or just ignore it and let the inmates run the asylum.

At any rate, nobody seems to care what jocks are doing, I'm surprised there aren't more shenanigans because whsts the downside? If they want to fix a race they could probably all sit in a huddle together in the jocks room going over strategy, nobody would say anything or care.

They could all head to the windows in their silks and bet and nobody would say a word or care.

How many jocks have been fined, suspended or arrested for odd rides that make no sense?

Zero.

I guess you forgot about this:

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/three-louisiana-jockeys-arrested-in-evangeline-race-fixing-scheme/

And, quite frankly, if you think it's all fixed, why even bother playing?

[EMD4ME]

Race 4. And to me this a POSITIVE PO.

Ten horse was obviously on way to FL in late NOV for MDCL 5,000 run.

Why take the horse to PRX after running 2nd at SPA.

Was total throwout and ran true to form.

PO #2 for same horse. Was wearing belmont house silks. Owner wasn't ready for a pic. (bring his silks for ride)

[EMD4ME]

Wow. Dude, you need to take a log off the fire on these conspiracy things. I don't think its healthy. :)

No I don't. I'm in the zone right now.

Seeing and hitting horses clearly. Knock on wood.

Please don't blame the messenger. Be mad at the causer of the message, not the delivery boy.

[EMD4ME]

PO In race 5 at Bel.

What an amazing gallop out on the 1. was into the Far Turn (1/4 mile plus at belmont-after the wire) and could not be pulled up.........WOW

[EMD4ME]

I guess you forgot about this:

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/three-louisiana-jockeys-arrested-in-evangeline-race-fixing-scheme/

And, quite frankly, if you think it's all fixed, why even bother playing?

Let's be clear. I am NOT saying it's fixed.

I am just pointing out things are not normally, normal. Things that stick out.

[andtheyreoff]

Let's be clear. I am NOT saying it's fixed.

I am just pointing out things are not normally, normal. Things that stick out.

I understand. That wasn't directed at you, it was toward SRU.

[EMD4ME]

So he has a choice. Either call them out or just ignore it and let the inmates run the asylum.

At any rate, nobody seems to care what jocks are doing, I'm surprised there aren't more shenanigans because whsts the downside? If they want to fix a race they could probably all sit in a huddle together in the jocks room going over strategy, nobody would say anything or care.

They could all head to the windows in their silks and bet and nobody would say a word or care.

How many jocks have been fined, suspended or arrested for odd rides that make no sense?

Zero.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No one would see them. There's no one THERE! :lol: :(

[NorCalGreg]

I guess you forgot about this:

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/three-louisiana-jockeys-arrested-in-evangeline-race-fixing-scheme/

And, quite frankly, if you think it's all fixed, why even bother playing?

....I chuckled at the first comment on the Paulick story:

"My sources tell me that the Patin clan is considering a shift in focus, and will soon begin to groom the young'uns for careers on Wall Street, where no crooks are held accountable."

[EMD4ME]

....I chuckled at the first comment on the Paulick story:

"My sources tell me that the Patin clan is considering a shift in focus, and will soon begin to groom the young'uns for careers on Wall Street, where no crooks are held accountable."

What I find amazing is that they were able to prove that they had batteries for a race earlier in the meet.

If the trainer of the "stiffed" horse didn't go ape shit in that stiffed race, no one would know the bettor of the prior incident.

[Stillriledup]

I guess you forgot about this:

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/three-louisiana-jockeys-arrested-in-evangeline-race-fixing-scheme/

And, quite frankly, if you think it's all fixed, why even bother playing?

It's not 'all fixed'

My point was that if something looks shady, 'authorities look the other way'

The Patin situation was so extreme that they were forced to act.

[Stillriledup]

I guess you forgot about this:

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/three-louisiana-jockeys-arrested-in-evangeline-race-fixing-scheme/

And, quite frankly, if you think it's all fixed, why even bother playing?

Your last sentence would be akin to An nba player quitting basketball because the refs make bad calls sometimes. ;)

[EMD4ME]

Race 9. 12 horse was 8/1...

Paid $19 to place and $12 to show.

He had a 9 to 1 W to P money ratio.

Wow, he was smacked to win by some one or some people.

[Stillriledup]

Race 9. 12 horse was 8/1...

Paid $19 to place and $12 to show.

He had a 9 to 1 W to P money ratio.

Wow, he was smacked to win by some one or some people.
Johnny v off Angle on the winner

[v j stauffer]

Not starting this thread to say something afoul, let's be clear. Starting it to discuss things that make you go hhmmmmm....why? Coincidence? Something wrong with the horse? Something going on that we don't see.

P O #1) Race 1 Belmont today. 5 and 6 were the speeds. 6 breaks in and takes the lead from the 5. That's not the PO. The 6 led on the rail into the far turn and the rider of the 5 keeps his horse 3 wide plus for most if not all of the far turn run as he takes a firm hold of the 5. Why not stay 2 wide next to the leader? Why blow additional ground?

P O #2) I don't know if I consider this a P O. Manuel Franco wins race 3. Jerks his horse to face the toteboard as the race is official. Does he really need to know how much he paid to win that bad? Or is he looking to see what the horses open up at in race 4? Or was he looking to see who won the photo for 2nd? As he did this, the pony and outrider, yank him to pull him back towards the winner circle.

What have you seen that makes you say hhmmmmm......?

Sometimes a jockey will purposely keep his mount away from a speed inside because he knows if he engages his horse will become unmanageable and very rank. You'll see a lot of this in the morning as well. A horse will stay kind and responsive if not allowed to angle down right next to the rail. When and if the rider goes there we see the horse kick into go as fast as you can mode.

Once upon a time almost all jockeys would bring a winning mount back and turn him towards the infield. It was thought to be a way of praising his horse and for them to have a celebratory moment together. I always thought to myself the horse must be saying dude my groom and all the other horses are the other way. Julie Krone and Jack Kaenel would do it every time. Nowadays Mike Smith is the only one I see consistently doing it.

What I'll never understand is why so many people automatically think something unusual MUST be something nefarious. Why can't it just be different, quirky and cool?

[EMD4ME]

Sometimes a jockey will purposely keep his mount away from a speed inside because he knows if he engages his horse will become unmanageable and very rank. You'll see a lot of this in the morning as well. A horse will stay kind and responsive if not allowed to angle down right next to the rail. When and if the rider goes there we see the horse kick into go as fast as you can mode.

Once upon a time almost all jockeys would bring a winning mount back and turn him towards the infield. It was thought to be a way of praising his horse and for them to have a celebratory moment together. I always thought to myself the horse must be saying dude my groom and all the other horses are the other way. Julie Krone and Jack Kaenel would do it every time. Nowadays Mike Smith is the only one I see consistently doing it.

What I'll never understand is why so many people automatically think something unusual MUST be something nefarious. Why can't it just be different, quirky and cool?

Thanks Vic for the thoughts. I am not saying any of this is afoul. Just rare to see, in most cases, that's all.

I do "get" your 1st point (staying wide). There is logic to that, hence understandable to me.

[NorCalGreg]

"Jerks his horse to face the toteboard as the race is official"

Why did Franco want the horse to see what the win payoff was?? That's the only part I don't get.

Was he trying to tell the horse:

"See...keep winning, and instead of cardboard, you'll be eatin hay n oats m'fer, hay n oats!" :lol:

EMD ya gotta expect the lunatic fringe (like me) to come out when you make certain observations.
Good thing we don't have this stuff going on in California :rolleyes:

[raybo]

Not starting this thread to say something afoul, let's be clear. Starting it to discuss things that make you go hhmmmmm....why? Coincidence? Something wrong with the horse? Something going on that we don't see.

P O #1) Race 1 Belmont today. 5 and 6 were the speeds. 6 breaks in and takes the lead from the 5. That's not the PO. The 6 led on the rail into the far turn and the rider of the 5 keeps his horse 3 wide plus for most if not all of the far turn run as he takes a firm hold of the 5. Why not stay 2 wide next to the leader? Why blow additional ground?

P O #2) I don't know if I consider this a P O. Manuel Franco wins race 3. Jerks his horse to face the toteboard as the race is official. Does he really need to know how much he paid to win that bad? Or is he looking to see what the horses open up at in race 4? Or was he looking to see who won the photo for 2nd? As he did this, the pony and outrider, yank him to pull him back towards the winner circle.

What have you seen that makes you say hhmmmmm......?

Nothing. In the first "PO" maybe the rider thought the 3 path was the best path, or just wanted to make sure the horse stayed out of trouble. No biggie, one path isn't that much added distance. In the 2nd "PO" maybe the jock wanted to see a portion of the replay. No biggie again, unless he thinks he can just sit there for the whole replay, then he is delaying the winner's circle ceremonies. If he is watching the tote for some "unsavory" reason, he's not real smart, IMO.

[v j stauffer]

"Jerks his horse to face the toteboard as the race is official"

Why did Franco want the horse to see what the win payoff was?? That's the only part I don't get.

Was he trying to tell the horse:

"See...keep winning, and instead of cardboard, you'll be eatin hay n oats m'fer, hay n oats!" :lol:

EMD ya gotta expect the lunatic fringe (like me) to come out when you make certain observations.
Good thing we don't have this stuff going on in California :rolleyes:

You're rapidly becoming very annoying. :ThmbDown:

[EMD4ME]

Nothing. In the first "PO" maybe the rider thought the 3 path was the best path, or just wanted to make sure the horse stayed out of trouble. No biggie, one path isn't that much added distance. In the 2nd "PO" maybe the jock wanted to see a portion of the replay. No biggie again, unless he thinks he can just sit there for the whole replay, then he is delaying the winner's circle ceremonies. If he is watching the tote for some "unsavory" reason, he's not real smart, IMO.

2nd PO: By the time he came back from the gallop out, the replays were shown. NYRA shows the next set of replays well after prices go up, as they show the winner's circle presentation and upcoming will pays on the jumbo tron.

Have little idea why he pulled the horse to face towards the toteboard. What made it funnier was the outrider on the pony, yanking him from his tote facing position LOL.

[NorCalGreg]

You're rapidly becoming very annoying. :ThmbDown:

Remind me of that the next 3 of your flame wars I have to wade through to read a f'n thread.
Have a good evening
-NCG

[v j stauffer]

2nd PO: By the time he came back from the gallop out, the replays were shown. NYRA shows the next set of replays well after prices go up, as they show the winner's circle presentation and upcoming will pays on the jumbo tron.

Have little idea why he pulled the horse to face towards the toteboard. What made it funnier was the outrider on the pony, yanking him from his tote facing position LOL.

Sometimes riders will be pissed off about something. Maybe the stewards. Maybe a beef with the outrider.

I've seen times they'll dawdle just to be annoying.

Here in Northern California we had a guy, Bill Mahorney, who drove all the judges crazy with these antics.

[EMD4ME]

Sometimes riders will be pissed off about something. Maybe the stewards. Maybe a beef with the outrider.

I've seen times they'll dawdle just to be annoying.

Here in Northern California we had a guy, Bill Mahorney, who drove all the judges crazy with these antics.

I hear ya Vic.

Can you tell me more about Bill? What were some of the antics he did to rattle people's cage?

[v j stauffer]

Remind me of that the next 3 of your flame wars I have to wade through to read a f'n thread.
Have a good evening
-NCG

OK

[v j stauffer]

I hear ya Vic.

Can you tell me more about Bill? What were some of the antics he did to rattle people's cage?

Basically one. He would take FOREVER to get back to unsaddle. Win or lose he'd roll in every bit of two minutes after everybody else had returned.

The stewards would call him in. Threaten fines, even though there's really no rule.

That would only make it worse. Really nothing anybody could do about it. He gained quite a reputation for that behavior.

[EMD4ME]

Basically one. He would take FOREVER to get back to unsaddle. Win or lose he'd roll in every bit of two minutes after everybody else had returned.

The stewards would call him in. Threaten fines, even though there's really no rule.

That would only make it worse. Really nothing anybody could do about it. He gained quite a reputation for that behavior.

Thanks Vic, if ya think of more, let me know. Love those stories.

[v j stauffer]

There are many.

This one not QUITE a subtle demonstration of disagreement.

Joe Sierra received a set of days from the Charlestown stewards.

As he was leaving he stopped to "relieve" himself on their door.

The suspension was increased a bit. :eek:

[EMD4ME]

There are many.

This one not QUITE a subtle demonstration of disagreement.

Joe Sierra received a set of days from the Charlestown stewards.

As he was leaving he stopped to "relieve" himself on their door.

The suspension was increased a bit. :eek:

Well you know how I feel about Stewards :lol: :lol: :lol: , so I hope he had a lot of reserves in his tank !!!!!!! Good for him!

[v j stauffer]

Well you know how I feel about Stewards :lol: :lol: :lol: , so I hope he had a lot of reserves in his tank !!!!!!! Good for him!

Just when I stupidly begin to think you have a chance at being something other than a cretin it all blows up in one post.

Wouldn't it be great if you just went away?

[EMD4ME]

Just when I stupidly begin to think you have a chance at being something other than a cretin it all blows up in one post.

Wouldn't it be great if you just went away?

Come on old pal Vic, you know you wanted to laugh as well.

It's ok. You can laugh without anyone noticing!

To answer your question, I did. But SRU told me you missed me, so I came back.

Did he lie :liar: ?

[whodoyoulike]

So he has a choice. Either call them out or just ignore it and let the inmates run the asylum.

At any rate, nobody seems to care what jocks are doing, I'm surprised there aren't more shenanigans because whsts the downside? If they want to fix a race they could probably all sit in a huddle together in the jocks room going over strategy, nobody would say anything or care.

They could all head to the windows in their silks and bet and nobody would say a word or care.

How many jocks have been fined, suspended or arrested for odd rides that make no sense?

Zero.

Isn't this a violation of some written racing rules?

[Stillriledup]

Isn't this a violation of some written racing rules?

I don't know what's a violation since other than buzzer boys strangling horses so hard that half the grandstand marched into the GMs office to complain, nothing ever really seems to get done w premature stand ups, wrangling horses back who want to run, etc.

[Stillriledup]

Just when I stupidly begin to think you have a chance at being something other than a cretin it all blows up in one post.

Wouldn't it be great if you just went away?

It would be great if judges went away and tracks paid the winners without bettors having to worry about someone playing god with their cash.

[Track Phantom]

It would be great if judges went away and tracks paid the winners without bettors having to worry about someone playing god with their cash.

I have a sneaky suspicion that it's not your cash. It's the tracks cash and your just holding it for a moment.

[ronsmac]

It would be great if judges went away and tracks paid the winners without bettors having to worry about someone playing god with their cash.I agree with you. Suspend the riders, take the purse, do whatever, but stop dq'ing horses. Especially when a horse draws off by 5 , but bumped a horse who finished 9th.

[v j stauffer]

It would be great if judges went away and tracks paid the winners without bettors having to worry about someone playing god with their cash.

There's a fresh take.

[Stillriledup]

There's a fresh take.

On the Subway fresh take hotline no less!

[proximity]

There are many.

This one not QUITE a subtle demonstration of disagreement.

Joe Sierra received a set of days from the Charlestown stewards.

As he was leaving he stopped to "relieve" himself on their door.

The suspension was increased a bit. :eek:

:D

i was playing poker last week with a guy i call ERU (extremely riled up) who threatened to do this right in the middle of the poker room if he ever won some big progressive slots jackpot.

sometimes i wonder if ERU is really SRU but then i log on pa and see like 15 new SRU posts that came in while ERU was focused on the game. :)

[burnsy]

I have a sneaky suspicion that it's not your cash. It's the tracks cash and your just holding it for a moment.

In economic terms, that's called the marginal propensity to consume. (lose)

EMD they are painting the rail today and cutting the lawn, better get on it and measure the grade of the turf courses. I heard that paint on the rail makes the inside horses run faster too. People give you guys crap but I get a good laugh out of it.

If I were not 5' 10" and 210 lbs. I'd dress like a jockey for Halloween and place bets to see what people do.

[onefast99]

Race 4. And to me this a POSITIVE PO.

Ten horse was obviously on way to FL in late NOV for MDCL 5,000 run.

Why take the horse to PRX after running 2nd at SPA.

Was total throwout and ran true to form.

PO #2 for same horse. Was wearing belmont house silks. Owner wasn't ready for a pic. (bring his silks for ride)
Silks get lost or misplaced more times than you think. The owner may also have forgotten to register or re-register his silks. This has noithing to do with the winners circle pic many have had Belmont or Aqueduct "house" silks on in the winners circle.

[EMD4ME]

In economic terms, that's called the marginal propensity to consume. (lose)

EMD they are painting the rail today and cutting the lawn, better get on it and measure the grade of the turf courses. I heard that paint on the rail makes the inside horses run faster too. People give you guys crap but I get a good laugh out of it.

If I were not 5' 10" and 210 lbs. I'd dress like a jockey for Halloween and place bets to see what people do.

All the more reason TO do it!!!! May I videotape paaleezze???

[proximity]

Silks get lost or misplaced more times than you think. The owner may also have forgotten to register or re-register his silks. This has noithing to do with the winners circle pic many have had Belmont or Aqueduct "house" silks on in the winners circle.

i'm sure emd has ed bainesque impact values on this.

example: claim 2 route house or lay 3 sprint owner. :)

[EMD4ME]

i'm sure emd has ed bainesque impact values on this.

example: claim 2 route house or lay 3 sprint owner. :)

Chee. The owner had his pink silks for the live SPA run at 8/1 and desperate to win run (at 1/5 at PRX).

Silks off is a good angle, especially when the horse is dropping hoping to be claimed (and when the owner knows his horse can't win because he's physically messed up).

Laugh all you want.....I'll just cash against the chalk in these cases.

[proximity]

Chee......
...Laugh all you want.....I'll just cash against the chalk in these cases.

i believe it was expo 93 where ol' doc sartin said that "if you want to be a professional handicapper you hafta be able to laugh.... and laugh loudly?"

i agree and i'm laughing with you not at you. :)

[EMD4ME]

i believe it was expo 93 where ol' doc sartin said that "if you want to be a professional handicapper you hafta be able to laugh.... and laugh loudly?"

i agree and i'm laughing with you not at you. :)

I hear ya Proximity :)

Believe me the silks weren't the reason why I bet against. They were just an added bonus when the decision was made on that race.

[onefast99]

I hear ya Proximity :)

Believe me the silks weren't the reason why I bet against. They were just an added bonus when the decision was made on that race.I wonder how many have won with the wrong silks? Here is a good one for you, my betting partner plays the :1: or:1a: when one of them scratches, he has done well doing that. I would think this is along the same lines of your betting angles.