BC and Keeneland explain the two days.

[Grits]

An explanation from Keeneland and Breeders' Cup. Still, we wonder how much, exactly, will those corporate swells be betting? And why we're reading about the sport's problems the other 363 days a year when the swells and the "insiders" have gone home? :confused:

I hope it's all successful, I hope that wagering records are set. However, I'm glad with my decision made, months ago, to not journey to Lexington. I don't want to be in anyone's three story, temporary structures with thousands of other people. No.

http://www.drf.com/news/breeders%E2%80%99-cup-uncharted-territory-keeneland

Much more in the link:

Behind Elliston is a zeppelin-class hospitality tent, the kind you’d find at a sheikh’s birthday party. Dozens of tool-toting workers buzz around inside the 45,000-square-foot structure. When the Breeders’ Cup comes to Keeneland for the first time Oct. 30-31, the tent will have been transformed into a wood-paneled luxury space filled with 3,200 racegoers, multiple bars and food stations, and a stage for live music. Adjacent to the tent, toward the grandstand, is a three-story, 42,000-square-foot building that is the first triple-decker temporary structure to be built in North America, its spacious suites already booked to high-rolling corporate customers and sponsors. And next to that is another temporary structure of suites, this one 50,000 square feet and two stories high. It’s sold out, too.

Collectively, attendees this year have paid approximately $19 million for tickets, nearly twice as much as the patrons who went to any other Breeders’ Cup in history, according to Breeders’ Cup officials, with every reserved seat sold and every general-admission ticket already snapped up. And revenue has hit that level even though attendance this year will be well below half of the event that raised the previous record amount of ticketing revenue, in 2010, when attendance was 114,353 at Churchill Downs over two days and the track had room for thousands more.

[Stillriledup]

19 million just to get inside the track?

[elhelmete]

I'm glad with my decision made, months ago, to not journey to Lexington. I don't want to be in anyone's three story, temporary structures with thousands of other people. No.


I feel the same. I have been to 2 BCs at Santa Anita, '09 and '12. The differences I saw between the years, the trends I saw, really turned me off to attending again in person. Happy to just watch on TV.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

As a horse player I tend to find myself being a hypocrite.

We all lament the slow decline of this sport, complain about declining field size, bad product, and no one at the track. I read about the different meets and declines across the industry and think me getting into this industry now is crazy.

As a horse player, I hate it when the track is crowded, specifically at Monmouth. Food truck weekend, fathers day, Haskell, drives me nuts with all the lines and newbie hipsters running around. However, the sport needs new fans, so its a double edged sword. I go to Saratoga and sit in the back yard taking in the sights, but cant stand people setting up camp for the day right on top me. Good for the sport but bothers me. I see people renting picnic tables, or the prohibitive cost of the Kentucky Derby and think how the sport prices out a lot of the customer base that "keeps the lights on" at these places the majority of the year.

When it comes to the breeders cup, I am looking forward to it. I wish I could attend this year but cant. This is one weekend I would gladly pay $400 for a ticket to a reserved area with open bar and restricted access to bathrooms and wagering machines. The crowd im sure will be big, and the waiting time for things will be long. However, this is one event I would be more than willing to brave the crowds for.

[tanner12oz]

As a horse player I tend to find myself being a hypocrite.

We all lament the slow decline of this sport, complain about declining field size, bad product, and no one at the track. I read about the different meets and declines across the industry and think me getting into this industry now is crazy.

As a horse player, I hate it when the track is crowded, specifically at Monmouth. Food truck weekend, fathers day, Haskell, drives me nuts with all the lines and newbie hipsters running around. However, the sport needs new fans, so its a double edged sword. I go to Saratoga and sit in the back yard taking in the sights, but cant stand people setting up camp for the day right on top me. Good for the sport but bothers me. I see people renting picnic tables, or the prohibitive cost of the Kentucky Derby and think how the sport prices out a lot of the customer base that "keeps the lights on" at these places the majority of the year.

When it comes to the breeders cup, I am looking forward to it. I wish I could attend this year but cant. This is one weekend I would gladly pay $400 for a ticket to a reserved area with open bar and restricted access to bathrooms and wagering machines. The crowd im sure will be big, and the waiting time for things will be long. However, this is one event I would be more than willing to brave the crowds for.

once in a lifetime..you simply gotta attend ya know? is it gonna have issues FOR SURE but this is like the holy grail Keeneland+BC..

[elhelmete]

As a horse player I tend to find myself being a hypocrite.

We all lament the slow decline of this sport, complain about declining field size, bad product, and no one at the track. I read about the different meets and declines across the industry and think me getting into this industry now is crazy.

As a horse player, I hate it when the track is crowded, specifically at Monmouth. Food truck weekend, fathers day, Haskell, drives me nuts with all the lines and newbie hipsters running around. However, the sport needs new fans, so its a double edged sword. I go to Saratoga and sit in the back yard taking in the sights, but cant stand people setting up camp for the day right on top me. Good for the sport but bothers me. I see people renting picnic tables, or the prohibitive cost of the Kentucky Derby and think how the sport prices out a lot of the customer base that "keeps the lights on" at these places the majority of the year.

When it comes to the breeders cup, I am looking forward to it. I wish I could attend this year but cant. This is one weekend I would gladly pay $400 for a ticket to a reserved area with open bar and restricted access to bathrooms and wagering machines. The crowd im sure will be big, and the waiting time for things will be long. However, this is one event I would be more than willing to brave the crowds for.

I know EXACTLY what you mean and feel the same.

I truly believe horseplayers are somewhat of a loner bunch. We may hang out with other players, but give us a somewhat secluded mini-environment at the track and I suspect most of us will be happier.

And yet we genuinely want and understand the need for bigger crowds.

One year I caught wind that my wife was thinking of surprising me with a trip to the Derby. I felt like a huge a$$hole convincing her I don't want to go, not unless/until I have a real connection to a horse. That's just me. I like the NFL too, but have no interest in partaking of the Super Bowl.

In 2009 I really enjoyed the BC at SA (happens to be my home track). The crowd was big, and there was the expected lines and pomp and circumstance, but the joint still felt like Santa Anita. Both days we showed up super early, walked shed row, wandered around wherever we wanted, etc.

In 2012 it felt like the joint was carved up into so many "separate ticket" and "I'm only here for the scene" areas I hardly recognized the joint. I missed out on my prime bet of the day because the food I like to get had been relegated to a part of the track where there were no TVs or totes in sight and I misjudged post time (yeah, ultimately my fault I admit).

Then in 14 I didn't attend but I had a horse owned in partnership running in the opener on Friday, so I went super early just to be there fully intending on leaving immediately after the race. I had my license. Well, the place was so locked down and I had to finagle my way to the paddock like trying to get through TSA on Thanksgiving weekend. I get it on the one hand. OTOH...it just felt wrong.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Exactly, we are loners for the most part. I got a good group of people at Monmouth, one of which is on this site and the others might not know how to turn on a computer haha, but I look forward to seeing them on a weekly basis and if one of them is not there I have to ask why. They add to the experience for me.

As for the BC, I am planning on going next year when its at Santa Anita. Im in Tucson right now so its drivable.

I used to get football tickets offered to me every weekend, but the experience itself drives me nuts and im much more comfortable at home.

[letswastemoney]

I wish they gave me a parking pass as media for the racetrack. I have to park at a hotel 15 minutes away and take a shuttle.

[SuperPickle]

Don't blame Keeneland blame the Breeders Cup.

One of the dirty little secrets is tracks that host make no money. That's why NYRA won't host it. Basically if you hit projections the track breaks even. If you exceed them the track does pocket some cash but you REALLY need to exceed them.

Then there's what happened at Monmouth. It rained and the track lost millions.

What happened at Monmouth ended the days of mid-tier tracks bidding on it.

[alhattab]

As a horse player I tend to find myself being a hypocrite.

We all lament the slow decline of this sport, complain about declining field size, bad product, and no one at the track. I read about the different meets and declines across the industry and think me getting into this industry now is crazy.

As a horse player, I hate it when the track is crowded, specifically at Monmouth. Food truck weekend, fathers day, Haskell, drives me nuts with all the lines and newbie hipsters running around. However, the sport needs new fans, so its a double edged sword. I go to Saratoga and sit in the back yard taking in the sights, but cant stand people setting up camp for the day right on top me. Good for the sport but bothers me. I see people renting picnic tables, or the prohibitive cost of the Kentucky Derby and think how the sport prices out a lot of the customer base that "keeps the lights on" at these places the majority of the year.

When it comes to the breeders cup, I am looking forward to it. I wish I could attend this year but cant. This is one weekend I would gladly pay $400 for a ticket to a reserved area with open bar and restricted access to bathrooms and wagering machines. The crowd im sure will be big, and the waiting time for things will be long. However, this is one event I would be more than willing to brave the crowds for.

Not hypocritical Joe. I think it is more value for the $ or for the hassle. We are willing to pay- either monetarily or through some minor inconvenience- if we feel we are getting some sort of unique experience or benefit for the cost. We are willing to pay for, and in many cases have paid for, great racing experiences- Saratoga, Breeders Cups, etc. What most of us hate is when we are forced to pay- financially or otherwise- for shitty product or where our routines get f'ed up by people who are just slumming at the track, hogging picnic tables and betting $8 per capita, for food trucks or Father's Day. The only personal satisfaction I get out of Monmouth's Fathers Day crowd is that 1 in 50 of the 10 yo kids there will get hooked and will be roaming around the grandstand 5 years from now, betting his summer job money illegally and learning all of racing's wonderful nuances, just like we did at that age. Hopefully my 10yo is one of them! For that reason alone, I'm willing to huddle in front of circa 1993 TVs with a lot of people who are cramming the track on one of those days. The whole Saratoga experience, racing and pre/post racing, is worth the cost and the effort. The racing itself is relatively speaking so much better than the gruel to which we are subjected each non Saratoga racing day. We are willing to pay for the Breeders Cup and other big cards form the same reason.

What is my point? I don't really have one. I just wanted to say hi to Joe! I hope you, Katie and Amelia are doing well.

[Grits]

I wish they gave me a parking pass as media for the racetrack. I have to park at a hotel 15 minutes away and take a shuttle.

Get on your bus very, very, early--take your coffee, your apple and your granola with you. Do not tarry in the hotel breakfast area.

ETA @zerodarkdawn. Without backups on New Circle, hopefully, you'll make the second. Do not drink a lot of liquids, good luck, and enjoy your Breeders' Cup.;)

[Tall One]

Get on your bus very, very, early--take your coffee, your apple and your granola with you. Do not tarry in the hotel breakfast area.

ETA @zerodarkdawn. Without backups on New Circle, hopefully, you'll make the second. Do not drink a lot of liquids, good luck, and enjoy your Breeders' Cup.;)


Sounds like he's taking the Cox St shuttle which is by the Hyatt, so they'd take Versailles Rd straight to the track.

[Grits]

Sounds like he's taking the Cox St shuttle which is by the Hyatt, so they'd take Versailles Rd straight to the track.

T.O., I don't ever ask men where they're staying....:lol:

Anyway, I know you'll take the backstreets and shortcuts. Didn't you say that you were thinking about the Red Mile? I hope you have a blast and cash a bundle of hot tickets! There has to be a monetary reward for putting up with all these folks descending on your city.

[Tall One]

Well that would make 2 of us, grits. :)

Just pointing out he's saved from new circle at least.

Yeah, that's still the plan for Friday at least. Saturday I'll be tailgating at commonwealth stadium and watching the races from the satellite. I just hope it's not too big of a cluster out there, especially for the PA folks in town.

Here's something cool..they've got a huge TV screen downtown that is showing the works live.

[Grits]

Well that would make 2 of us, grits. :)

Just pointing out he's saved from new circle at least.

Yeah, that's still the plan for Friday at least. Saturday I'll be tailgating at commonwealth stadium and watching the races from the satellite. I just hope it's not too big of a cluster out there, especially for the PA folks in town.

Here's something cool..they've got a huge TV screen downtown that is showing the works live.

The works screen downtown, now, that really is cool. Check in this week and let us know how you're doing. Drink good bourbon, it helps with crowd control. ;)

[dilanesp]

Exactly, we are loners for the most part. I got a good group of people at Monmouth, one of which is on this site and the others might not know how to turn on a computer haha, but I look forward to seeing them on a weekly basis and if one of them is not there I have to ask why. They add to the experience for me.

As for the BC, I am planning on going next year when its at Santa Anita. Im in Tucson right now so its drivable.

I used to get football tickets offered to me every weekend, but the experience itself drives me nuts and im much more comfortable at home.

I have a question for the loners here who like the empty track.

Have you attended a racetrack with a truly big crowd? If so, do you connect at all with the excitement of hearing that crowd scream when the horses turn for home, at seeing all those women in the hats and dresses, at seeing all those people who are excited to attend the races?

I grew up with that, because I grew up in Southern California before the on-track crowds declined. Every weekend there were 35,000 or more at the track, and on big days there were 55,000.

I TOTALLY understand the desire to have space, a quiet place to work, and easy access to betting. But do you understand the thrill of a big race day in front of a big crowd, and why people could find that appealing?

[elhelmete]

I have a question for the loners here who like the empty track.

Have you attended a racetrack with a truly big crowd? If so, do you connect at all with the excitement of hearing that crowd scream when the horses turn for home, at seeing all those women in the hats and dresses, at seeing all those people who are excited to attend the races?

I grew up with that, because I grew up in Southern California before the on-track crowds declined. Every weekend there were 35,000 or more at the track, and on big days there were 55,000.

I TOTALLY understand the desire to have space, a quiet place to work, and easy access to betting. But do you understand the thrill of a big race day in front of a big crowd, and why people could find that appealing?

I totally do, but for me it can't be every day and I have my own personal 'tipping point.'

I've done a four day stretch at Del Mar in the summer, and by the third day I'm sort of worn out. Last November at Del Mar hit my personal sweet spot right in the bullseye as far as crowd size and composition.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I absolutely do connect. I love the energy that it generates. Having been to every Haskell the last ten years, and a few Travers in between, as well as the Preakness, I have seen some crowds. I will go to the Derby one day, but for the most part having people sitting on top of me isn't too appealing.

I find this especially annoying if I am in line at Saratoga at 6am to get a decent spot in the backyard, and then at 1:30 someone literally tries to move right on top of me or asks to sit with my family and I. Sorry man, I put way too much time into this for you to come high stepping in here with your tommy Bahama chair and want to sit under my sweet canopy.

That being said, its a love-hate relationship haha

[Grits]

There is so much truth to this. With the traffic, etc, not only would I not trade my days at the track--weekends, Breeders' Cups, Derby, Preakness, Belmont, I wouldn't trade a day winning thousands in a cave or office on a computer for American Pharoah's Belmont Stakes, or this year's Travers Stakes. To experience the anticipation, to hear and see people scream so loudly, to be so happy, watching a Triple Crown transpire, and then later, see a stretch run like the Travers....when the outcome was different, yet still exciting? There's nothing that can compare in sport.

I have a question for the loners here who like the empty track.

Have you attended a racetrack with a truly big crowd? If so, do you connect at all with the excitement of hearing that crowd scream when the horses turn for home, at seeing all those women in the hats and dresses, at seeing all those people who are excited to attend the races?

I grew up with that, because I grew up in Southern California before the on-track crowds declined. Every weekend there were 35,000 or more at the track, and on big days there were 55,000.

I TOTALLY understand the desire to have space, a quiet place to work, and easy access to betting. But do you understand the thrill of a big race day in front of a big crowd, and why people could find that appealing?

[tanner12oz]

I have a question for the loners here who like the empty track.

Have you attended a racetrack with a truly big crowd? If so, do you connect at all with the excitement of hearing that crowd scream when the horses turn for home, at seeing all those women in the hats and dresses, at seeing all those people who are excited to attend the races?

I grew up with that, because I grew up in Southern California before the on-track crowds declined. Every weekend there were 35,000 or more at the track, and on big days there were 55,000.

I TOTALLY understand the desire to have space, a quiet place to work, and easy access to betting. But do you understand the thrill of a big race day in front of a big crowd, and why people could find that appealing?

that roar is electric...makes your $2 feel like million..nothing like it and non race fans will even enjoy the electricity

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Hey Andy! yea man hanging in there as best as possible. The program is interesting at least. Although I was attacked by coyotes twice. Fortunately had my dog Charlie aka freight train with me. Don't have to worry about that stuff back in jersey. Opening day cant come soon enough.

[alhattab]

I have a question for the loners here who like the empty track.

Have you attended a racetrack with a truly big crowd? If so, do you connect at all with the excitement of hearing that crowd scream when the horses turn for home, at seeing all those women in the hats and dresses, at seeing all those people who are excited to attend the races?

I grew up with that, because I grew up in Southern California before the on-track crowds declined. Every weekend there were 35,000 or more at the track, and on big days there were 55,000.

I TOTALLY understand the desire to have space, a quiet place to work, and easy access to betting. But do you understand the thrill of a big race day in front of a big crowd, and why people could find that appealing?

I love being at the races with a big crowd when the crowd is there for the races. I agree it is electric and much more fun. I have enjoyed attending the Breeders Cup for that very reason because most of the people are there to see and bet on the races. Belmont used to be that way up until mid late 90s I'd say. Not the crowds you saw in So Cal but a good, very enthusiastic 15-20k or so for some of the bigger days. And they were players- per capita even with a crowd that size would be in the $250 range. Joe and I have been to Monmouth on days when there are 25,000 people there but they are mainly taking up space and if they're betting they are hogging MY self service machine. I have resorted to the phone those days to ease my frustration!

[Robert Goren]

The thing about race days with big crowds that is annoying to me is that the tracks are NEVER prepared for them. They are usually a mess from the get-go. It starts with getting to the track and the parking. They never have enough tellers or machines. Finding a place to sit is problem even if you have bought a table. (this is a problem even at simulcast centers on big days like the BC or the Derby) Heaven forbid, you would need to get something to eat or drink. The tracks have a lot people who are not normally there and you would think they would put their best foot forward in hopes that they could get some of those people to come back soon. But that is not what I have seen happening for the last 25 years or so. The attitude I have seen is "let's get as much money as we can for least amount of costs." The whole idea of using "big days" to promote the sport has fallen by the wayside. I thought the idea of the breeders cup was to promote the sport, but that is not what it has become, at least for the betting end of the sport.

[thaskalos]

I have a question for the loners here who like the empty track.

Have you attended a racetrack with a truly big crowd? If so, do you connect at all with the excitement of hearing that crowd scream when the horses turn for home, at seeing all those women in the hats and dresses, at seeing all those people who are excited to attend the races?

I grew up with that, because I grew up in Southern California before the on-track crowds declined. Every weekend there were 35,000 or more at the track, and on big days there were 55,000.

I TOTALLY understand the desire to have space, a quiet place to work, and easy access to betting. But do you understand the thrill of a big race day in front of a big crowd, and why people could find that appealing?
Sure...I understand that people can get emotionally attached to the electricity exuded by a large crowd. But I find that my own fascination with the sport is of a much more "personal" nature. I find that I am often touched by things that the rest of the crowd seems oblivious about...and I, in turn, often ignore things that the majority of the other people are fascinated by. So...I don't necessarily need an uproarious crowd in order to feel "connected" to this game. I have had my most "moving" horse racing moments while I am completely alone at home...watching on a TV screen. In fact...the roar of an excited crowd often interferes with my own enjoyment of the experience.

I know it may sound strange...but this game isn't like a spectator sport to me. It's more like two battles going on at the same time. One battle being waged between me and the odds...and the other between me and my own destructive self. The crowd is just the sideshow...and I often phase it out completely.

It's the curse of being a "gambler", I guess. It interferes with your ability to be a "fan"...

[Grits]

Make those calls, gentlemen. You can still get there.

From BC: THIS could be your view! Premium seating for ‪#‎BC15‬ (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/bc15?source=feed_text&story_id=10153772451205929) available. “We have satisfied the demand for all of our horsemen participating in this year’s event and now are providing the public the chance to get great seats for this weekend,” Robert N. Elliston, Breeders’ Cup Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer.

For Saturday:

Phoenix Room $825.

Loge Box Seat $500.

Keene Barn (up the hill) $200.

Glad the horseman got all they needed for connections, and BC got all the corporates seated as well.

[Rex Phinney]

Make those calls, gentlemen. You can still get there.

From BC: THIS could be your view! Premium seating for ‪#‎BC15‬ (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/bc15?source=feed_text&story_id=10153772451205929) available. “We have satisfied the demand for all of our horsemen participating in this year’s event and now are providing the public the chance to get great seats for this weekend,” Robert N. Elliston, Breeders’ Cup Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer.

For Saturday:

Phoenix Room $825.

Loge Box Seat $500.

Keene Barn (up the hill) $200.

Glad the horseman got all they needed for connections, and BC got all the corporates seated as well.

I checked the website and what they have released there is the best deal I've seen on BC tickets in quite some time.

[Stillriledup]

Hey Andy! yea man hanging in there as best as possible. The program is interesting at least. Although I was attacked by coyotes twice. Fortunately had my dog Charlie aka freight train with me. Don't have to worry about that stuff back in jersey. Opening day cant come soon enough.

'Chuck' can do some damage if you get on his bad side :D

Beautiful dog. :ThmbUp:

[Grits]

I checked the website and what they have released there is the best deal I've seen on BC tickets in quite some time.

Rex, you're one flight away. Door to door, and you're there. :)

[rastajenk]

Some of these comments remind me of the first time I observed this phenomenon. I was working at Beulah Park 25 years ago, and when Turfway had its Spiral Stakes Day, I was told to up the order for programs a little bit. I thought that was odd; I assumed the Spiral would siphon off some of our regular patrons. Nope. A lot of bettors made the trip from there to our place to avoid the crowd. It was a Yogi Berra-ism in real-time: Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded!

[Rex Phinney]

Rex, you're one flight away. Door to door, and you're there. :)

Trust me I checked, sadly my wife has scheduled a Halloween party at the house this weekend.

She didn't like my idea to tell everyone it was cancelled for a "family emergency" :)

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey Andy! yea man hanging in there as best as possible. The program is interesting at least. Although I was attacked by coyotes twice. Fortunately had my dog Charlie aka freight train with me. Don't have to worry about that stuff back in jersey. Opening day cant come soon enough.Beautiful animal! :ThmbUp:

[Dark Horse]

Not sure about this BC. Why take the weather risk? Races are off the turf today at Keeneland. With the Triple Crown races in the East, would it really be so hard to permanently station the BC in the West? If only to get the weather issue out of the way. It seems to me, at times, that horse racing can't get out of its own way.

[Stillriledup]

Not sure about this BC. Why take the weather risk? Races are off the turf today at Keeneland. With the Triple Crown races in the East, would it really be so hard to permanently station the BC in the West? If only to get the weather issue out of the way. It seems to me, at times, that horse racing can't get out of its own way.

At times? No reason to take weather risks.

[Dark Horse]

I was being diplomatic.

[Waquoit]

At times? No reason to take weather risks.

It's not fair to East Coast fans and connections to have the BC out west every year.

[dilanesp]

It's not fair to East Coast fans and connections to have the BC out west every year.

I've heard things like this before, and I have never understood it. Since when is siting of a championship event supposed to be "fair" to some group of fans?

Is it "fair" that the College World Series is in Omaha?

Is it "fair" that the Super Bowl is almost always in a warm weather locale?

Is it "fair" that the World Cup goes to places like the US and Japan where they don't give a hoot about soccer?

I'm not saying that the Breeders' Cup HAS to be in California every year (Belmont, for instance, is a perfectly decent site for it), but there's a reason so many of them have been held in California and it does have to do with the facts that (1) we support it with big crowds and (2) we have good weather.

You know, we could move the Triple Crown around too. Why not hold that at Santa Anita, Golden Gate, and Del Mar next year? You east coast types have had it for too long, after all. :P

[Tom]

You know, we could move the Triple Crown around too. Why not hold that at Santa Anita, Golden Gate, and Del Mar next year? You east coast types have had it for too long, after all. :P

The idea of the BC was to move around every year.
That has been revised, over the years, to just make as much $$$ as possible, like Woodbine is doing this year, while pretending to give a crap about racing.

[dilanesp]

The idea of the BC was to move around every year.
That has been revised, over the years, to just make as much $$$ as possible, like Woodbine is doing this year, while pretending to give a crap about racing.

Go check the publicity surrounding the 1984 Breeders' Cup. Actually, Gaines' idea was to hold most of them in California. (Three of the first four were here.)

Not that this really matters. Even if the original intent WERE to move them around, that doesn't mean that it would be "unfair" to east coast fans not to.