Keeneland, works on Sunday not clocked...

[cj]

...nor reported. Found out this gem watching TVG today.

[theiman]

...nor reported. Found out this gem watching TVG today.

Heard that too. I believe Donna Barton mentioned it.

Hard to believe, but nothing shocks me. :bang:

[cbp]

Is it safe to assume clocker business will increase?

[SG4]

Do you mean works on the 18th weren't recorded, or they won't be this upcoming 25th? I saw works listed for last Sunday, so I assume you're talking about this coming Sunday?

[biggestal99]

...nor reported. Found out this gem watching TVG today.

Some works not clocked, not all.
Ward worked ruby notion on sunday and that was clocked.

Allan

[DeltaLover]

For me this is not a big deal; workout records are so unreliable that they are next to useless for any handicapping purpose.. The only thing that might matter a little, is how often a horse shows up for training but I have the strong impression that the clockers find the way to hide even this.

[macguy]

For me this is not a big deal; workout records are so unreliable that they are next to useless for any handicapping purpose.. The only thing that might matter a little, is how often a horse shows up for training but I have the strong impression that the clockers find the way to hide even this.

Not sure how much clockers would care about trying to hide works, unless of course, they're gamblers.

I agree with you 100% on works, though. I generally will only use works to see if the horse is on any kind of a regular schedule. There's just way to many horses out there going in way too many circles for me to believe that the clockers are accurate on all accounts down to the fraction of a second.

[burnsy]

I sort of agree with Delta. I don't really pay attention. If the work is fast and the horse loses that's even an excuse........worked too fast. I like watching the replays of works and seeing how the horse moved and which part of the work they are actually "working". Face it, every horse entered is fast, or they wouldn't be here. Seeing who is loving it out there regardless of the time is most important. Usually the best you will get is finding a negative work out. Which does not happen that often with these horses and when it does its usually a known head case anyway. I don't see how anyone gets a winner off of them but that's up for contention. People will name half a dozen in one field that "worked well" and then claim credit if one of them wins. These are all top flight horses and some are quirky with works. Just look at Honor Code.

[Tom]

It goes to credibility.
Keeneland has none.
BC hasn't had any since 1989.

Maybe I am jaded, but dollars to donuts, for a price, you can get those times.

[Tom]

Not sure how much clockers would care about trying to hide works, unless of course, they're gamblers. Or have paying customers.

What possible excuse could there be for not timing work a week out from racing's biggest weekend? If KEE is not capable of timing work, how can we allow then to host the BC? (That aside, how could KEE have ever even been considered for a BC?????/)

[EMD4ME]

No excuse for this.

Belmont should be the permanent home. 2 REAL turf courses, not artificial concrete turf. Wide sweeping turns, so the best horse wins. PP's mean a bit less as track is so cavernous.

Of course, can't even get 1 BC there so my point is useless.

[Tom]

Belmont and Woodbine should split the BC every year.
I guess CD could get in on that.

[Fager Fan]

Or have paying customers.

What possible excuse could there be for not timing work a week out from racing's biggest weekend? If KEE is not capable of timing work, how can we allow then to host the BC? (That aside, how could KEE have ever even been considered for a BC?????/)

Anyone have an answer for this? Assuming the OP got the information correct, what possible reason would they have for not timing the works on Sunday?

The dependability of works is another issue for another day (they should be timed by the tripping of beams). What is the reasoning for this? That the Lord commanded that one shall not work on the Sabbath?

[johnhannibalsmith]

... (they should be timed by the tripping of beams)....

I'm curious what your idea is here. You mean using the existing tele-timing method? How would that work with handfuls or horses all working at the same time at various places on the track and together in company?

[Stillriledup]

Anyone have an answer for this? Assuming the OP got the information correct, what possible reason would they have for not timing the works on Sunday?

The dependability of works is another issue for another day (they should be timed by the tripping of beams). What is the reasoning for this? That the Lord commanded that one shall not work on the Sabbath?

They should all have iPhones in their pockets w über app enabled, that way we can track their progress

[Saratoga_Mike]

It goes to credibility.
Keeneland has none.
BC hasn't had any since 1989.

Maybe I am jaded, but dollars to donuts, for a price, you can get those times.

Maybe?

[Fager Fan]

I'm curious what your idea is here. You mean using the existing tele-timing method? How would that work with handfuls or horses all working at the same time at various places on the track and together in company?

My experience is that they're staggered enough to make it work. Horses working in company can be estimated just as we do now according to how far back he was from the horse who tripped the timer. Might take multiple sets of timing equipment at the poles with a clocker in charge of each set. Certainly it could be done, don't you think?

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Certainly it could be done, don't you think?

I'm inclined to think that while it could be done in theory, it would be pretty impractical the way most tracks operate. Aside from having to ramp up the staffing and hardware, the way the beams trip - using a lens on both the inner and outer rail - they are already susceptible to being tripped erroneously by things other than horses and with outriders, ponies, gallopers, etc, on the track in the morning it would require some sort of schedule with the track restricted to workers like an OBS sale or something.

I've always kind of thought that eventually there would have to be a better way to record works - and maybe my preconceptions play into my perspective - but trying to use the tele-timer seems like it would only be plausible perhaps for the sake of Breeder's Cup or Derby workers or some small subsection of workers where protocol could change temporarily. But as it is now, most of those works are covered so extensively that such a solution is fixing the problem in the only period where it isn't so much a problem anyway.

I'm thinking at some point maybe surveillance equipment - be it stationary or aerial or whatever - with the feed running a timer and benchmarks placed into the feed at the poles to extrapolate the times upon review within the overall timing might be our only hope given the progress in that tech and steep declines in cost.

[cj]

Took the G3 off the turf today after the P6 had begun.

[thespaah]

Not sure how much clockers would care about trying to hide works, unless of course, they're gamblers.

I agree with you 100% on works, though. I generally will only use works to see if the horse is on any kind of a regular schedule. There's just way to many horses out there going in way too many circles for me to believe that the clockers are accurate on all accounts down to the fraction of a second.
Or when trainers ask them to hide works. Or give the clockers incorrect names for horses working on a particular day.

[SuperPickle]

So the source of this is Wesley Ward said he works horses on Sunday because the clockers go to church.

I took it as a joke,

Do we know if there's any truth to it?

[SuperPickle]

...nor reported. Found out this gem watching TVG today.

Looking in the Form I see lots of Sunday works listed so stuff is definitely reported.

I'm pretty sure Wesley Ward is yanking your chain.

[Spiderman]

I'm inclined to think that while it could be done in theory, it would be pretty impractical the way most tracks operate. Aside from having to ramp up the staffing and hardware, the way the beams trip - using a lens on both the inner and outer rail - they are already susceptible to being tripped erroneously by things other than horses and with outriders, ponies, gallopers, etc, on the track in the morning it would require some sort of schedule with the track restricted to workers like an OBS sale or something.

I've always kind of thought that eventually there would have to be a better way to record works - and maybe my preconceptions play into my perspective - but trying to use the tele-timer seems like it would only be plausible perhaps for the sake of Breeder's Cup or Derby workers or some small subsection of workers where protocol could change temporarily. But as it is now, most of those works are covered so extensively that such a solution is fixing the problem in the only period where it isn't so much a problem anyway.

I'm thinking at some point maybe surveillance equipment - be it stationary or aerial or whatever - with the feed running a timer and benchmarks placed into the feed at the poles to extrapolate the times upon review within the overall timing might be our only hope given the progress in that tech and steep declines in cost.

Trakus can probably track workouts. They will need to co-partner with Crayola to get as many colors as necessary for the "chiclets."

Seriously, Trakus has existing technology and with a bit of tweaking and supervising, they can time workouts to the hundredth of a second.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

Seriously, Trakus has existing technology...

I had hopes... but... it seems to be a really, really long work in progress to use that technology for its primary and intended use as is.

[Stillriledup]

You want bigger betting pools you need to require all workers to have their name on the saddlecloth.

[Fager Fan]

You want bigger betting pools you need to require all workers to have their name on the saddlecloth.

Why? How many handicappers are watching the works live?

[Fager Fan]

This leads me to a question: how many handicappers would be interested in watching works as part of their handicapping? Almost all, a few, or somewhere in between?

[EMD4ME]

This leads me to a question: how many handicappers would be interested in watching works as part of their handicapping? Almost all, a few, or somewhere in between?

I would watch them.

In fact, I think they should be videotaped with a stop watch in the corner of the screen. I want every horse (working in company) identified as well.

[Kash$]

I would watch them.

In fact, I think they should be videotaped with a stop watch in the corner of the screen. I want every horse (working in company) identified as well.

SATURDAY, OCT. 24
LIMOUSINE LIBERAL
Distance: (4f)
Time: :46/2
Track Conditions: fast, condition 3
Notes:
very good workout, off in 24 seconds, closed with a rush and galloped out in 1:00/1

[Kash$]

SATURDAY, OCT. 24
ANALOG GIRL
Distance: (4f)
Time: :48/1
Track Conditions: fast, condition 3
Notes:
finished strongly, getting the last quarter in :23/1, out in 1:01

SATURDAY, OCT. 24
EXAGGERATOR
Distance: (5f)
Time: :59/3
Track Conditions: fast, condition 3
Notes:
got the first 3 furlongs in :36/2, finished with good energy and out in 1:13/2

SATURDAY, OCT. 24
I'M A CHATTERBOX
Distance: (5f)
Time: 1:00/2
Track Conditions: fast, condition 3
Notes:
nice breeze, coming into the race in good form, was not asked for run

SATURDAY, OCT. 24
PRIVATE ZONE
Distance: (4f)
Time: :48/3
Track Conditions: fast, condition 3
Notes:
nice even workout under wraps